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What Is Authentic Faith

Read James 1:26-27 According to this passage what does authentic faith look like?

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 ---Chris on 2/27/10
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Paul, In the OT, Angels were the mediators of the Law of Moses and spoke to the Prophets. Hebrews 1 and 2 state that TODAY, Jesus is the Mediator of a BETTER COVENANT.

Christ was the end of the law in that he fulfilled it. Jesus became the ultimate and perpetual sacrifice for the sins of the world Heb. 7-9. Jesus has all authority in heaven and earth and we are to hear him Matt28:-18,17:5). Jesus is to be heard over Moses and Elias law and prophets, Matt. 17: 4, 5. "For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, But Christ as a son over his own house, whose house are we....," those under GRACE, Galatians 2:20-21!!!!!!!!!
---kathr4453 on 4/26/10


Show me promises in the Law of Moses and I will see faith.
Hbr 3:17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? [was it] not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
Show me mercy in the Law of Moses instead of sentence and punishment.
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Show me whether or not one who trespasses gets what they deserve and I will see justice and true judgment.
Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground, for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return.
---MIchael on 4/25/10


How is FAITH a weightier matter of the Law?
---Paul9594 on 4/23/10


Because it requires LOVE, Paul. That is what Jesus wastying to get the phrisees to understand.
I believe we are to follow in Christ's footsteps not the pharisees.
Right now Paul, no offense but you are really looking like a pharisee. You seem more obsessed with the law.
---mice3754 on 4/25/10


MIchael:

I answer questions based on their interpretation, and prove them wrong, if they are wrong.

Reason with me how your interpretation is correct.

How is the Law not of Faith, as you say.

By the way the commas and colons are placed different than what you posted.

And the Law being of Faith originates in The Law and the Prophets. How is the Law of Faith? I will reason later, someone in this blog, knows!

Also becasue the Truth is important and canot be broken:

Act 17:17 So he reasoned in the synagogue with Jews and the devout persons, and in the marketplace every day with them that met him.

Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded Jews and Greeks.
---Paul9594 on 4/24/10


MIchael:

This is a translation faithful to the Greek numerics. The work of Ivan Panin:

Matthew23:23


23 Woe to you, scribes and
Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye tithe :mint and :anise and :cummin, and
have left the weightier matters of the law: :judgment and :mercy, and :faith,
but these ye ought to have done, and not to have left those.

U don't understand there is no new doctrine, in the New Covenant, it is repeated in Christ. The symbolic passed away ONLY TO BE repeated in Christ,

Perharps others could answer,
Why does Christ say, The weightier of the Law is FAITH?
---Paul9594 on 4/24/10




It is a question based upon your interpretation and, of course, your interpretation must be the right one even though myself and others have shown you otherwise.
Your interpretation is:
'and have omitted the weightier [matters] of the law: judgment, mercy, and faith'
Our interpretation is:
'and have omitted the weightier [matters] of: the law, judgment, mercy, and faith'
Is this correct MarkV, Kathr4453?
So, how can we answer a question that has no foundation. The question itself implies that we agree to your interpretation.
---MIchael on 4/24/10


MarV,Michael, Kathr4453:

U still avoid the question:

How can I and others tell, you still avoid the question?
Just suppose, Christ said, the weightier of the Law is grace, you ought to have done...

And someone asks you:
Is grace the weightier of the Law we ought to do/show?

You would immediately answer, Yes this we ought to do/show! Christ said is the weightier of the Law!

Yet when Christ said, Faith is the weightier of the Law you ought to have done. Matthew 23:23

Instead of answering: Yes, Faith is the weightier of the Law we ought to do!

You just avoid this simple answer! Because you don't want to contradict the popular doctrine: The Law is not faith, u misunderstand. (kathr4453)
---Paul9594 on 4/24/10


kathr4453:


I thought you said:

///In the OT, there was a mercy seat, however those who disobeyed the law were still STONED for such things. Even Mary was going to be privately stoned....until an Angel appeared to Joseph! ///

There is more you posted, should we post them all?
---Paul9495 on 4/24/10


Kathr4453:
U posted:
///Paul, who was Jesus talking to? Jews who not only kept law but also enforced the Law?//

Your thinking is faulty,according to part of the false doctrine taught today.

Jews/Pharisees hardly kept the Law, they kept the traditions set by the leadership of that day that voided the Father's commandments.

Christ preached the Gospel in Isarel,to the Jew.

With your thinking we can also just throw away the Gospel preached to the Jew.

How do we decide what is for the Jew, by the teaching of men or of Christ?

Didn't Paul say there is neither Greek or Jew?
---Paul9594 on 4/24/10


Kathr4453:

U post:
Jew and Gentile had kept the laws to which each was amenable, they could not have been justified thereby, because any degree of sin condemns, and mere law has no intrinsic remedy for sin (3:1-20).///

Christ died to forgive our sins only? And left us to the pain and corruption of sin since the Law has no intrinsic remedy for sin?

Do you undestand full grace?

Are you saying that for the adulterer, the drug addict,sex addict, Christ just forgives their sins when they enter salvation, and leaves them under the condemnation: more corruption, and pain of sin?

Or can they by Faith in Christ? Establish the Law so as to be delivered from corruption, pain of sin? As Paul preached.
---Paul9594 on 4/24/10




Kathr4453:

U post:
Jew and Gentile had kept the laws to which each was amenable, they could not have been justified thereby, because any degree of sin condemns, and mere law has no intrinsic remedy for sin (3:1-20).///

Christ died to forgive our sins only? umm. Left us to the pain and corruption of sin since the Law has no intrinsic remedy for sin?

Do you undestand full grace?

Are you saying that for the adulterer, the drug addict,sex addict, Christ just forgives their sins when they enter salvation, and leaves them under the condemnation: more corruption, and pain of sin?

Or can they by Faith in Christ, establish the Law so as to be delivered from corruption, pain of sin, as Paul preached?
---Paul9594 on 4/24/10


Miche3754:



Why Christ forgave the woman,I covered on Jan 13, 2010,which many did not understand at that time, even Kathr4453.

Kathr4453 spoke against the mercy in the Law. I do save my postings/reasoning with others.

...the works of His cross were finished from the foundation of the World, so Christ applied mercy of the Law, on the adulterous woman!!

The Pharisees did not understand this even as many Christians today, who think the Law has passed. You think women can teach in the church!

How is FAITH a weightier matter of the Law?
---Paul9594 on 4/23/10


/Kathr, Father/Christ cannot just overlook sin and forgive it just like that,, if that were the case as you believe there is no need for Christs death on the cross and just forgive us all!!!
-paul/

What did Christ DO to the adulteress?

He forgave her and OVER LOOKED her sin.
Told her go and sin no more!
Sounds to me that Christ does just what you say he does not.
Forgive sin and over look it.

Now paul, I am not arguing the fact that we should obey God, because we should.
I am arguing with your point where you say Christ doesn't just forgive and forget when the Bible says HE DOES.
---miche3754 on 4/23/10


John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Rev 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
Rev 5:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
---MIchael on 4/23/10


Paul, OT saints looked FORWARD to the CROSS, and as Abel demonstrated by his blood sacrifice, placed his faith in the coming redeemer promised in Genesis 3:15. THEY lived on CREDIT, we live on Debit. In the OT sins were COVERED, in the NT Sin are washed away completely. Paul writes of David in romans 4....David saying THEN, blessed are those who's sins are COVERED.

Now we are not in the OT where sin is simply covered, but completely Done away IN CHRIST.

God certainly had MERCY on David's sin, before Jesus went to the cross.

ONLY God can show mercy, and again Christ took God's Judgment of SIN, and died in our place so we can have eternal life.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/10


Kathr4453:
U speaking against Mercy in the Law:
the woman taken in adultery was brought up, Jesus had not yet gone to the cross, or shed his blood! The answer to the woman taken in adultery was JESUS alone had the power to FORGIVE! THIS is what infuriated the Pharisees!///

Kathr, Father/Christ cannot just overlook sin and forgive it just like that, if that were the case as you believe there is no need for Christs death on the cross and just forgive us all!!!

....The works of His cross were finished from the foundation of the World!!

Hebrews 4:1
3 As I sware in my :wrath,
If they shall enter into my :rest:
Although the >> works << were FINISHED FROM the worlds foundation.
---Paul9594 on 1/13/10
---Paul9594 on 4/22/10


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Please Post #2

Paul, you need to really meditate on those three words. ***Jeremiah 9:24.


Well under Grace:

Justice was PAID at Calvary.

Mercy was SHOWN to those who have Received Jesus Christ.

AND Faith is what brings the previous two points to LIFE In Christ.

Have I paid attention to these weightier matters? OH YES. SOOOOO, without Christ paying the price of Justice and judgment for MY sin, there could be no MERCY shown me.

These ARE the weightier MATTERS I pay the most attention to. But Paul, are you paying attention to these?
---kathr4453 on 4/22/10


Paul, who was Jesus talking to? Jews who not only kept law but also enforced the Law?

I have faith. I can't ENFORCE faith in/on someone else.

Justice: what exactly am I to do with this. Judge others? Judge myself?

Mercy: Well if you mean to forgive my enemies?. I don't live under an eye for an eye.

You see Jesus also showed mercy with the woman taken in Adultery, HE FORGAVE her instead of having her stoned, which was required under LAW.

So with your Faith Justice and Mercy, what would you have done? Have her stoned..justice? Oh you say forgive = mercy, but did she sin against YOU or God?

The CHURCH is not under a Theocracy with rulers RCC Types, enforcing Judgement or covering sin .
---kathr4453 on 4/22/10


If Christ was asking me, not being Hebrew, about tithing, and the law of Moses, I'd be surprised, but of justice, mercy, and faith-of such there is no law, then I would be ashamed.
Gal 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Mic 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what [is] good, and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
Justice, mercy, and faith do not describe the weightier matters of the law, unless we have a different view is meant by 'law'.
---MIchael on 4/21/10


Paul, the answer is no, Jesus would have never said that to us. He would have said the weighter things all of you did, for I need food and you gave Me, I needed clothes and you gave Me, etc. He knows that what is in our hearts, a love for Him.
The Pharisees were clean outside, dressed great, prayed in public but inside their hearts were rotten.
---MarkV. on 4/21/10


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Michael, MarkV, Kathr4453:

Just suppose,Christ was STANDING in front of you and tells you:

Woe unto you Michael, Kahtr, MarkV., hypocrites! For ye tithe mint and anise and cummin, AND HAVE left UNDONE the WEIGHTIER OF THE LAW, justice, and mercy, and >>>FAITH<<<: but these Michael, Kathr, Mark, you ought to have done, and not to have left the other undone.

Would not this wording of Christ be pointing out to you, what you ought to have DONE the WEIGHTIER of the Law: FAITH...?

If this wording does not emphasize, point out to you what you ought to do, the weightier of the Law FAITH...

THEN FOR YOU, what does His words tell you, OF THE LAW... you ought to have done?
---Paul9594 on 4/21/10


Paul, Michael is correct. You misterpret the passage in Matthew 23:23. Jesus point was not to condemn their observance of the law's find points. The problem was that they "neglected the weightier matters" of Justice and mercy and faith-the moral principles underlying all the laws. They were satified with their focus on the incidentals and externals but willfully resisted the spiritual meaning of the law. He told them they should have concentrated on those larger issues without leaving the others undone.
The Pharisees focus on external issues lay at the heart of their error. Who would want to drink from a cup that had been washed on the outside but was still filthy inside?
---MarkV. on 4/20/10

AMEN!!
---miche3754 on 4/21/10


Kathr, very good answer to Nana. It was well put and from Scripture.
---MarkV. on 4/20/10


kathr4453,
I am dissappointed in that you've spoken so strongly against 'head knowledge' and 'book knowledge', and here you are slapping plagiarized clippings, 'canned answers' at me. Wayne Jackson, Christian Courier? He tittled his bit "The Meaning of Romans 3:31", a good tittle for whom knows nothing, but I was persuaded better things of you.
Once more I ask You, "kathr4453, what do you make of Romans 3:31". If You do not know, no need to answer and thanks.
---Nana on 4/20/10


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Nana, Paul argued 3 main points in Romans 1-3.
1. The pagan Gentile world is lost.
2. The Jews under Law were also LOST. (In summary then, sin is universal and no one, can stand before God and boast of his "righteousness."

Even if both Jew and Gentile had kept the laws to which each was amenable, they could not have been justified thereby, because any degree of sin condemns, and mere law has no intrinsic remedy for sin (3:1-20).

3. Heavens response to this problem is the gift of the sinless Christ, who freely offered himself as a substitute sacrifice for sin on behalf of all who, through faith, are willing to receive the redemption provided (Don't forget to READ the remaining verses 21-30 that EXPLAIN verse 21.
---kathr4453 on 4/20/10


Paul, Michael is correct. You misterpret the passage in Matthew 23:23. Jesus point was not to condemn their observance of the law's find points. The problem was that they "neglected the weightier matters" of Justice and mercy and faith-the moral principles underlying all the laws. They were satified with their focus on the incidentals and externals but willfully resisted the spiritual meaning of the law. He told them they should have concentrated on those larger issues without leaving the others undone.
The Pharisees focus on external issues lay at the heart of their error. Who would want to drink from a cup that had been washed on the outside but was still filthy inside?
---MarkV. on 4/20/10


"Please place your faith in what Jesus DID for you!!!"
---kathr4453 on 4/19/10
Philippians 3:11-12: "If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus." Did Paul trust not?
kathr4453, what do you make of Romans 3:31: "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."?
---Nana on 4/19/10


Mat 23:23
Does it not say 'the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith'?
Where does it emphasize faith as a weightier matter of the law?
Why would judgment, mercy, and faith be under the law?
Where do the commas, semi-colons, and colons belong?
But, if I read Mat 23:23 correctly, then I might ask the same of you in regards to Mat 5:17-19, but since this is the blog about bridling our tongues, I can only rely on God for His judgment, mercy, and faithfulness.
You may continue to call me a Pharisee, apostate, and have lack of understanding now rather than edification and instruction if that is your desire.
---MIchael on 4/19/10


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MIchael:
U post:
Wouldn't Mat 23:23 be better read 'omitted (passed over) judgment, mercy (the love of God), faith and the wieghtier (matters) of the law' as Luke 11:42 shows?///

No, though some of the same topics are mentioned In luke 11:42 of Matthew 23:23

Christ's intention in Luke, is not to emphasize faith as a WEIGHTIER MATTER ....OF THE LAW, but in Matthew 23:23, He clearly emphisizes it.

How is it better to read to de-emphesize, be little what Christ clearly emphasizes and makes it a point? FAITH being a weightier matter ...OF THE LAW!

DO you also not consent and be little Christ's words in Matthew 5:17-19 to fit popular doctrines?
---Paul9594 on 4/19/10


Luk 11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier [matters] of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Wouldn't Mat 23:23 be better read 'omitted (passed over) judgment, mercy (the love of God), faith and the wieghtier (matters) of the law' as Luke 11:42 shows?
---MIchael on 4/19/10


Kathr4453:

U avoid the question.
Why don't you just say you don't know the answer to the question.

Or with your better understanding,

How is Law NOT of faith?

When Christ said faith IS a WEIGHTIER matter OF THE LAW.

Do you not consent to Christ's teaching about this?

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye tithe mint and anise and cummin, and have left undone the weightier matters of the law, justice, and mercy, and faith: but these ye ought to have done, and not to have left the other undone.
---Paul9594 on 4/19/10


Paul, the LAW was types and shadows of Christ Himself. Under LAW, lambs were slain to cover over sin until Christ came.

Jesus Christ FULFILLED the requirements of the Law, when HE, the Lamb of God put away sin through His own blood once and for all.

Under LAW ,only ONE SIN condemned to death. The LAW of God is absolutely PERFECT, so Perfect NO ONE could keep it. The point of the LAW was to show mankind how imperfect we are. Because of Adam's sin, ALL inherited a nature totally falling short of the Glory of God.

Jesus Christ fulfilled through His death and resurrection Life what God required...DEATH. HE Paid OUR SIN DEPT. HE Died in our place, and rose again for us.

Please place your faith in what Jesus DID for you!!!
---kathr4453 on 4/19/10


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Paul, of course, the Law reflects the moral nature and perfections of God. And since God's moral nature remains unchanging, the moral law remains unchanging and is as relevant for the believer today as for the believers to whom it was given. The law is good if one uses it lawfully. The law is also good because the law is to act as a custodian to bring individuals to Christ (Gal. 3:22-24), by showing them their sinfulness, so the law serves as a guide or tutor. It shows them their only hope for justification is through Christ. It also serves as a guideline for godly living. But Jesus Christ has taken care of the condemnation of the law for all those who believe by faith, have been once and for all been forgiven.
---MarkV. on 4/17/10


Kathr4453:
U posted:
The LAW is not of FAITH!!!!///

Paul also said the Law is not of Faith, within the correct context.

Or Does Paul NOT consent with the words of Christ in Matthew 23:23, after he himself teaches In 1 Timothy 6:3-4, that any man not consenting with Christ words, knows nothing ?

Is there a misunderstanding on your part to rightly divide the doctrine of faith?

Or with your better understanding, Can you explain this:

How is Law NOT of faith when Christ said faith is a weightier matter OF THE LAW, Matthew 23:23?

Or is it that you really do not understand the Law fully, to explain this?
---Paul9594 on 4/17/10


MarkV


I'm still waiting for answer...


IS THE LAW GOOD? FOR YOU? IF USED LAWFULLY?
---Paul9594 on 4/17/10


Paul what part of this verse don't you understand?

." Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for usfor it is written, "Cursed be everyone who hangs on a tree"that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

The LAW deals with the flesh. However I an Crucified with Christ, and the life that I now LIVE IN THE FLESH I live By faith of the Only Begoten Son who lived me and gave Himself for me.

The LAW is not of FAITH!!!!

---kathr4453 on 4/16/10


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Awesome how one person not bridling his tongue can lead to two others doing the same.

Thanks for participating Nana and Paul9594.

I was, in fact, overeacting in a minor point as many people do who have a hard time in this area.

James has alot to say about expressing your opinion in an ungodly manner.

A pharisee eh?.. pretty strong words, but I deserved them.

As I did the equally ironic rebuttals(notice the double spacing).

Thanks again for helping with my reply to the blog question.
---MIchael on 4/15/10


Michael:
The Pharisees missed doing, paying attention to the weighters matters of the Law, MERCY(grace),FAITH, judgment. Matthew 23:23

You show yourself of the Pharisee spirit measuring someone's standing because of a small matter of double spacing.

Double spacing counts as word.
And is a "Reply Hints" to be beneficial to reduce your number of words counted," it is not a you must not double space mandatory.

Will you continue to show the signs of being a Pharisee?

Or will you be reasoning about someone based on their faith, mercy, judgment?

How is it that you show yourself about grace?

When you are picking on a such a small matter not connected to righteousness by faith?
---Paul9594 on 4/15/10


Michael:
The Pharisees missed doing, paying attention to the weighters matters of the Law, MERCY(grace),FAITH, judgment. Matthew 23:23

You display the Pharisee spirit measuring someone's standing because of a small matter of double spacing.

Double spacing counts as word.
And is a "Reply Hints" to be beneficial to reduce your number of words counted," it is not a you must not double space mandatory.

Will you continue to show the signs of being a Pharisee?

Or will you be reasoning about someone based on their faith, mercy, judgment?

How is it that you show yourself about grace?

When you are picking on a such a small matter not sligthly connected to righteousness by faith?
---Paul9594 on 4/15/10


People that use the word 'irony' should know what it means and use it properly.
How does my not following rule 7(if it even applies to me) show irony?
---MIchael on 4/15/10


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Paul, the whole New Testament teaches about rightful living. They had no New Testament to read for it was not written yet. They had the Old Testament covenant of works of the Law so training of the New Covenant was something new to them. The Old Testament people looked forward to Christ by doing the sacrifices of animals, but now that Christ has come as a true sacrifice there was no need to sacrifice animals or be under the law because Christ had come and we are called to follow Christ. The Law does not stop, it is very much alive. All who are lost are under that Covenant. Until they receive Jesus Christ by faith, they will never be able to receive salvation by the Law of Works.
---MarkV. on 4/15/10


Michael,
You should know about ironic since you also can't even follow blog recommendations.
7. Use your ChristiaNet Penpal User Name as your name.
Lee1538 do, but neither you or I do. But then again, it was you who brought the 'ironic' charge.
---Nana on 4/14/10


How ironic for a person to try to teach OT laws when they can't even follow blog recommendations.
1. DO NOT DOUBLE SPACE YOUR REPLIES.
---MIchael on 4/14/10


MarkV:

I agree, we are not under the condemnation, curse of the law.

So then liberated from this, the Law is Holy, just and good according to Paul's preaching in Romans 7:12, right?

Was not Romans, taught 25 yrs into the church age, written FOR the Gentiles?

Paul teaches 30 to 35 yrs into the church age:

1TiMOTHY 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully,

Do PEOPLE of the church age TODAY, teach the same, as the apostles taught for the GENTILES?

IS THE LAW GOOD? FOR YOU? IF USED LAWFULLY?

Will you follow the teaching of the Apostles and not the apostates?
---Paul9594 on 4/14/10


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Kathr4453:


Act 17:17 So he reasoned in the synagogue with Jews and the devout persons, and in the marketplace every day with them that met him.

Should we know why you avoid 3 simple questions?

Is not the Law Holy just and good?
Romans 7:12.

Was Christ fleshly for keeping the Law/Torah or Spiritual?

Do most really misunderstand what the curse of the Law is?
---Paul9594 on 4/14/10


Paul, "the Law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming-not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. If it could, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshippers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins, because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins."
The Christian, because of Christ, is dead to the condemning power of the law Rom.8:1-3. Listen to what Hebrews 10:1-4 says. "For the worshippers would have been cleansed once for all"
---MarkV. on 4/14/10


Paul Part #2:
Only through Christ is a person permanently cleased. That is why all who are lost are under the condemnation of the Law, they can never be perfectly cleanse. They can work and work and never be cleansed once for all as Hebrews says, Only Christ can take away our sins forever. This is something I wish that Miche would understand that we are once for all cleansed and as Hebrews mention's, no longer under condemnation if we are truely saved. The law is still important to guide us to right living before God Rom. 3:31, but we are not under condemnation to the power of the Law. Jesus has taken care of that for us.
---MarkV. on 4/14/10


Children of the Father:

Are there those who walk away, avoid answering questions regarding the Law.

because if directly answered would prove their doctrine incorrect?

Did not the Pharisees do the same?

The Law/Torah meaning teachings/instructions some in the form of commandments, of the Father, do not void the promise.

Yet Whey are there some who do not correctly apply it or want void it?

Christ describing the latter days says:

Mat 24:12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.

Should we believe Christ or the apostasy from the law?
---Paul9594 on 4/13/10


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Luke 12:15: "And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth."
Acts 20:33: "I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel."
Romans 7:7: "What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet."

What shall we say then? Shall we not teach our children and remind ourselves that we should not covet? I think and have learned that we should. If so, there is a law and there are commandments that we are obliged to.
---Nana on 4/13/10


Paul, my answer concerning Abraham stands. No where does Paul teach in Galatians that teh Law was ADDED to the Covenant made with Abraham, but actually tells us it has nothing to do with it. Re-read Galatians 2:20-21...I do not make VOID the Grace of God for if righteousness comes by keeping the Law Christ died in vain.


The wonderful book of Galatians is concerning those like yourself who came in to BOTHER the Galatians trying to put them under LAW and Grace. Paul said NO, NOT FOR ONE NEW YORK MINUTE!!!
---kathr4453 on 4/12/10


Kathr4453:

Still waiting for your answer


You are right about this, the Law does not annul the Father's promise!

So then, why are you so pressing to void the Law?

Why are you trying to void the Law which doesn't even void the promise?

The Law forever confirms the promise.

Was Christ fleshly for keeping the Law/Torah or Spiritual?


Is not the Law Holy just and good?
Romans 7:12.

So then do most really understand what the curse of the Law is?
---Paul9594 on 4/11/10


kathr4453:
U posted:
...The Covenant made to Abraham came 400 years before the LAW and the law did not annul God's Promise.////

You are right about this, the Law does not annul the Father's promise!

so then, why are you so pressed to void the Law?

Why are you trying to void the Law which doesn't even void the promise?

The Law forever confirms the promise.

Was Christ fleshly for keeping the Law/Torah or Spiritual?

Doy really understand what the curse of the Law is? Is not the Law Holy just and good?
Romans 7:12.
---Paul9594 on 4/9/10


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Paul9594 //The commentary does not take into account the Hebrew word "torah" in this passage!

That is because the Torah was not even in existence at the time of Abraham.

//So this is an opinion not even considering the Hebrew word, therefore, is not biblical interpretation!

It is a very simple fact that there is no Biblical scholar or theologian that has ever lived that will agree with your unfounded interpretation.

Your mentors belong in some bug house somewhere on some other planet.

You say you are not Jewish or Messianic Jewish but you really are. The fact is you have not reached that realization as yet.
---Lee1538 on 4/9/10


Good morning Jesus. What a privilege it is to wake-up with You. Your Holy Spirit is in me and upon me..... My Father in the name of Jesus, lets don't pick on the wicked man this morning, lets praise You.
---catherine on 4/9/10


Paul, Galatians and Romans 4 tell us AUTHENTIC FAITH, has nothing to do with LAW what so ever. The Covenant made to Abraham came 400 years before the LAW and the law did not annul God's Promise. You will also see in Galatians that the two covenants Paul is talking about is the Abrahamic Covenant vs the Law of Moses. Those under Moses Sinai are still in bondage. Those under Abraham's are FREE and ABOVE.

There is no LAW that can resurrect you, quicken you to come alive to God, AKA,Born Again of the Spirit. The LAW brings DEATH ONLY!!!

Galatians 4:
28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

29But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
---kathr4453 on 4/9/10


Donna66,kathr,lee: IN great error

Will you listen to Paul the Apostle?

Paul, batptized in the Holy Spirit, AFTER the resurrection of Christ, approx. 20 YRS INTO THE CHURCH AGE, TEACHES US:

WHO >>>GENTILE CHURCHES <<< IMMITATED 20 YRS WELL INTO THE CHURCH AGE:

1Thess 2:14 For ye, brethren, became IMMITATORS of the CHURCHES of God which are in >>> JUDEA <<< in Christ Jesus: for ye also suffered the same things of your own countrymen...

Who did the GENTILE CHURCH immitate, well into the church age?

The churches of God in Judea.

Do you think Paul points out the GENTILE church of THESS Immatating THE churches OF Judea, because they kept the traditions of the Apostles or of the apostates?
---Paul9594 on 4/8/10


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Lee1538:

On Genesis 26:5 posts:

NET Bible footnote: The simplest explanation is that the narrator (traditionally taken to be Moses the law giver) elaborated on the simple report of Abrahams obedience by using terms which the Israelites were familiar. In this way he depicts Abraham as the model of obedience to Gods commands, whose example Israel was to follow.////


Abraham is the example to follow, for the Isralites and for us to follow.

He-brew word "Laws" of Genesis 26:5 is of torah,His word.

The commentary does not take into account the Hebrew word "torah" in this passage!
So this is an opinion not even considering the Hebrew word, therefore, is not biblical interpretation!
---Paul9594 on 4/8/10


paul9594

Don't we have examples of Godly men/women in the bible? I guess not for you

There is a word limit here. There is not room to name them all, nor to summerize all the ways they showed themselves righteous. My point was that people can observe, righteousness in others, even if they don't know how to describe it..

Besides, I wanted room to address the question that was asked (re: James 1:26-27)
---Donna66 on 4/8/10


Paul9594 - Genesis 26:5 All this came to pass because Abraham obeyed me and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes and my laws.

NET Bible footnote: The most simplest explanation is that the narrator (traditionally taken to be Moses the law giver) elaborated on the simple report of Abrahams obedience by using terms which the Israelites were familiar. In this way he depicts Abraham as the model of obedience to Gods commands, whose example Israel was to follow.

I accept that explanation rather than your that one need observe all the laws given in the Old Covenant, even those not found within the New Covenant in which the church is under.
---Lee1538 on 4/8/10


I bring up the whole story of Abraham's faith , AND obedience in Him, to His laws.
---Paul9594 on 4/7/10

Paul9594 Abraham's simply BELIEVED GOD!!!

God imputed righteousness to Abraham BEFORE he was circumcised, stating NO LAWS had anything to do with Abraham's Justification.

Abraham obeyed laying Isaac on the Alter, testifying to his faith that God would raise Isaac from the dead. THIS too is what we believe and put our faith in, that GOD through Jesus Christ will raise us from the dead!!!Just as Isaac was brought into existence apart from any effort on Abraham's part, but came into being through God's POWER, we too through Christ believe as Abraham did, and receive a NEW LIFE in Christ only God through Christ can give.
---kathr4453 on 4/8/10


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It's true after reading scriptures. Very few people will make it to heaven. So few are God's chosen ones. The government should not be taking care of the poor. God's people are suppose to be doing it. So, what's the problem? I don't know. Also, I find in Scripture, church-goers, are praising God not in Spirit. So, their religion is silly to God. They would be much better off to stay home [outward, putting on a show]....Pure religion, get out of this world. We are in it but not of it....In otther-words.
---catherine on 4/8/10


Chris, Shawn T explained it very well for the context is speaking of those that are doer's (genuine faith) of the word and those who are not. Religion here refers to ceremonial public worship (Acts 26:5). James chose this term, instead of one referring to internal godlines, to emphasize the external trappings, rituals, routines, and forms that were not followed sincerely. Bridle his tongue, means "control" or as another translation renders it, "keep a tight rein." Purity of heart is often revealed by controlled and proper speech (Matt. 12:36,37. "Perfect law" in both the Old and New Testament God's revealed, inerrant, sufficient, comprehensive Word is called Law (Ps. 19:7).
---MarkV. on 4/8/10


Donna66:
You post:
Our Salvation is found in HIM, not Abraham.

He does ask us...to believe and have faith in Him.

Don't we have examples of Godly men/women in the bible? I guess not for you.


Didn't Paul point out Abraham's faith in Hebreww 11?

I bring up the whole story of Abraham's faith , AND obedience in Him, to His laws.
---Paul9594 on 4/7/10


What does authentic faith look like?

That's one of those questions to which I'd have to say... well, I can't tell you exactly, but I know it when I see it!

James 1:26 (King James Version)
If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
1.. Bridleth not his tongue
2..Deceiveth his own heart
Two good indicators that faith is not true or, at least, is not deep.
---Donna66 on 4/7/10


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"..what does authentic faith look like?" Love, expressed tangibly.
---joseph on 4/4/10


Shawn,
I loved that last post. I would say though that it is not pure religion.
I would call it pure faith in God. 100% believing and doing God's will with no shadow of a doubt. You know that you know that you know it is God!

Just a wonderful post brother!
---miche3754 on 3/2/10


-- Chris :

Brother, Those passages reveal pure religion, not Faith !!

... and by the word 'authentic', you mean "Justifiable", then it appears as Whosoever is Swift to Hear, Slow to Speak & Wrath, receiving with meekness the Engrafted Word which is able to Save our Souls. These individuals are Doers of the Word & not Hearers only. Only through them will we see how Faith which comes from Hearing & Hearing by the Word of God, wrought with Doing that Word, brings about the Works which makes Faith Perfect, Justified & Pleasing to God : or as you've chosen to phrase it, 'Authentic'. James 1:19,21-23 ~ 2:21-24

IYWTK ~ James 1:23-24 speak of what "Dead or Nonexistent Faith" looks like !!
---Shawn.M.T on 3/2/10


looks to me like everyone has "hit the nail on the head".
I especially liked Markv's comment and More Excellent ways.
Wonderful and insightful posts, guys!
---miche3754 on 3/2/10


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Bridle his tongue, means "control" or as another translation renders, "keep a tight rein" Purity of heart is often revealed by controlled and proper speech (Matt. 12:36,37).
"Pure and undefiled religion" here James picks two synonymous adjectives to define the most spotless kind of religion faith, that which is measured by "compassionate love" (John 13:35) and the second, caring for orphans and widows clearly demonstrates true "sacrificial, Christian love."
Keeping unspotted from the world, is talking about the world system (1 John 2:15).
---MarkV. on 3/1/10


Maybe, faith is taking God at His word without question
---michael_e on 2/28/10


Understood objectively, faith is simply....

.....the ability to believe something.

I have faith in the laws of physics, but I don't LOVE them.

This is why God allows us to realize that it is a "faith FOR FAITH" that enables us to know the righteousness of God.

Romans 1:17
"For in it the righteousness of God is revealed through faith for faith".

As much as I publicize this fact, pastors, scholars, and commentaries trivialize it's meaning so that it is simply ignored.

Hebrews 11:6
"For whoever would draw near to God must believe...

1) that he exists AND...

2) that he rewards those who seek him".

.....your choice.

Verses are from the RSV.
---more_excellent_way on 2/28/10


When a person is rainting and raving as unto the Lord. Their religion is vanity- in vain- useless. [If I don't start hitting the right keys I may start]....Seriously, "Bridle" as a symbol of the believer's submission to God's control. Sounds easy doesn't it? Well, it isn't. But God is a great teacher. The only teacher there is, and He is the only person who can you these things....Undefiled---tainted with evil. We should strive as God's people, avoid being worldly. Be satified with what God gives you....Bit is found more often in the Bible than bridle [only twice]. Also, the word religion in this context is referring to worship in the outward sense, religious service. Hope this has helped, some!
---catherine on 2/28/10


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James 1:26-27 says, "If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one's religion is useless. Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world." This is talking about "faith working through love" (Galatians 5:6) which has us doing works of love, while this love shares God's own almighty protection against the sinsick effects of worldly beings. Spiritual beings have emotions. God's emotions of love are "with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love," (Ephesians 4:2)
---Bill_bila5659 on 2/28/10


Authentic means,worthy of acceptance or belief conforming to or based on fact,conforming to an original so as to reproduce essential features,made or done the same way as the original. Jesus is our original example of what faith should be. He has a never ending faith in the father,we should too. Jesus has a surrendered faith,he yielded to God,willing to give up everything to obey God. Jesus has an encompassing faith,it directed everything he did and he accomplished God's purpose for him. He also has an unwavering faith,nothing made him doubt who God is,or who he is,and he pressed on to the end,on earth in person,of his calling. Jesus has a faith based on love,forgiveness,perserverance,and compassion. Dying to self living to God.
---Darlene_1 on 2/27/10


Accoding to the text above, Faith would not be a matter of a lot of "talking religion" but rather practicing it, by looking after the needs of ohers, especially the orphans and widows in distress, while keeping himself unspotted from the pollution of the world.That is the kind of faith our heavenly Father gladly accepts.
---Pierre5358 on 2/28/10


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