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Global Warming Hoax

Has the cold of this winter and the recent climategate revelations changed your mind about the Global Warming Hoax?

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 ---jerry6593 on 2/28/10
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Warwick: Yes, CO2 is good for plants, but I don't think it's good for us to be adding too much. Do you think its better to be a bit more moderate in what we emmit? We may also be emitting other things from cars and power plants that are actually pollutants (coal power plants emit all sorts of strange materials that aren't very good for us). A bit of moderation, maybe?
---peter3594 on 3/12/10


Peter, I can't imagine anybody not wanting to stop the kind of pollution you described. My problem is with the attempts to change the language so that "pollution" becomes whatever the climate alarmists want to regulate and tax. Carbon dioxide is not pollution no matter what they say.

Obewan, I don't even know what conclusion you are standing by, but hey, go for it. Not sure what African countries you are talking about but I can guarantee that there is no freedom there. All the problems you described are a result of bad, corrupt government trying to control people and free markets. The poorest, dirtiest countries are totalitarian regimes where the ruling class controls and hoards the resources.
---ralph7477 on 3/11/10


Ralph: Hysterical? I stand by my conclusion. You wish to distort the statistics so as to conclude that unbridled waste of energy is somehow "good" for the world. You wish to consume it upon your own lusts in your SUV.

How soon you have forgotten the $4 gas, the world wide shortages, the food riots in Latin and Asian countries where people had less than $2 a day to feed a family and it cost over $4.

One country in Africa was too poor to afford $4 gas on the new world market. The tractors had no diesel, the cities lost their electric power because trains could not deliver coal. People were starving!
---obewan on 3/11/10


Ralph, that was indeed a strange way to put it, and not about global warming... I used to live in a small town in China, where the two factories there were dumping so many chemicals in the river that it was purple, and not only were there no fish, but also no plants for a quarter of a mile form the river. There I felt someone was messing too much (adding chemicals, removing the plants and fish) with God's creation
---peter3594 on 3/11/10


Donna66, agreed and accept my apology. Interestingly the UN announced Wednesdayn night its looking into so-called climategate. Still, hundreds of independent scientist world wide came to the same conclusion of the Bush White House scientific team, Global Warming is not a hoax.

It may be temporary or even natural but its not a hoax.

The problem is that US weather is largely unaffected from so-called Global Warming.

Artic Oscillation and El Nino affect our winters, cold spells and hurricanes.
---larry on 3/11/10




Peter, you seem like a reasonable man. But when you say, "I just would prefer not to go addind or removing things from what God has made so beautifully," I can't help but wonder what that is supposed to mean.

Obewan, you on the other hand, tend to become very dramatic, bordering on hysterical. I simply showed you how anybody can use statistics to bolster an agenda. The scammers who have been trying to scare school children, as well as the population in general, into believing that they are killing polar bears and destroying the earth if they don't replace their light bulbs are the ones with truly sick minds.
---ralph7477 on 3/11/10


To ralph7477: I see what you mean - yes, the change is small, and in this short time we have wery little evidence of whether that change can make a difference. I just would prefer not to go addind or removing things from what God has made so beautifully (I sould very naive, don't I?)
---peter3594 on 3/10/10


If the entire population of the world was converted to christianity and we have the same polution producing machinery as we have today, would God keep the air clean?
---Steveng on 3/9/10


My last post had to do with miracles. I have no idea how I posted it here. I'm moving it to an appropriate blog.
---Donna66 on 3/9/10


life span of humans have increased dramatically and crop yields have grown exponentially right along with the rise in supposed "greenhouse" gasses. Therefore CO2 is a good thing and we should produce more of it.
---ralph7477 on 3/9/10

You have a sick mind. Crop yields have gone up because of all the oil we produce to make fertilizers. When you use up all the oil we will all be starving - and not only because there is no oil to run the tractor and diesel truck but becuase there are no longer high yield fertilizers. I grew up on a farm and my cousins in OH all farm.
---obewan on 3/9/10




Your clarification is noted Peter. Yes, there is more CO2 in the atmosphere than in the past. There could also be less CO2 than in the more distant past depending on how far back you go. I say so what. We are talking about a few parts per million. A drop in the ocean.

Life on earth can't survive without CO2 and yet the alarmists have labeled this essential element "pollution". If they want to talk about statistical changes caused by CO2 I can argue that living standards around the world have risen, life span of humans have increased dramatically and crop yields have grown exponentially right along with the rise in supposed "greenhouse" gasses. Therefore CO2 is a good thing and we should produce more of it.
---ralph7477 on 3/9/10


Carla -- I agree about lengthening legs. You never can begin to talk about miracles without somebody telling you about this happening to somebody. One would think that half the population has mismatched legs (which is actually quite rare and would usually be healed by straightening the spine, not "growing a leg") Perhaps it is because so many want a "miracle testimony" and without any real disorder, this is one way to get one (if you are at all suggestible).

I believe in genuine miracles and I've seen a few myself. But when I had cancer and people all said "pray for a miracle"... I just said, "Lord, I want to be healed and I don't care how you do it!" He answered my prayer, too.
---Donna66 on 3/9/10


Sorry, I meant 'ruminates'. Such a rudimentary error...

Jerry, hope you had time to insult me for the error, before I made this correction. I know you need every opportunity to demonstrate your superiority that you can get...
---atheist on 3/9/10


Methane is also a greenhouse gas. It is produced by rudiments, such as cows and sheep. Our meateating practices produce more greenhouse gas of this type, methane, through flatulence than do automobiles. Cows are only rivaled in such production by Glenn Beck the global warming denier. However, his studio is equipment with a methane recapture/conversion system, allowing the entire Fox franchise to be a positively green operation. It is being studied to determined that if this production is uniquely biological or if there is a mind/body connection requiring him to be spewing for effective methane production.
---atheist on 3/9/10


larry-- If you were addressing Donna66 (remember there are 2 Donnas...one with numbers, one without), I made NO comparisons. I did not COMPARE anything with anything else...let alone apples and oranges.

What I DID say was: "There may be "overwhelming evidence" that the earth is warming. But what there is little, or no evidence for, is that warming will continue or get worse."
I disputed the "hockey stick" curve but didn't compare it to anything.
---Donna66 on 3/9/10


StevenG and Donna, you keep comparing apples and oranges. The wackos on the left and right don't discount Global Warming or Cooling.
This is the same logic used by atheist who cites wacko evangelicals like Robertson and Palin as a reason to discount the Resurrection.
The issue, regardless of warming or cooling, whether its temporary or natural, is don't do anything to make it worse.
Without the heavy hand of government, everyone should be doing everything they can to reduce pollution.
The question, as previously noted. is beyond silly. The current winter is due to El Nino and has nothing to do with Global Warming. Secondly, exposing climategate and nefarious lefties won't cool off the Northern Hemisphere.
---larry on 3/9/10


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To obewan and ralph7477, I apologize for how I wrote about 'extra CO2'. It was a bad way to say 'there appears to be enough evidence that now (early 21st century) there is MORE CO2 than there was during the middle of the 20th century.
Now to show that this causes the changes which many scientists seem to be finding is very difficult. It is possible, of course, that the CO2 causes changes, but usually this is done statistically, which is OK, but not ideal.
---peter3594 on 3/9/10


"The correct amount is more trees and more oxygen if one is willing to think about it rationally."-obewan

Uhhh...ok.

If I am ever able to decipher what in the world the above statement is supposed to mean I may comment on it someday.
---ralph7477 on 3/9/10


While reviewing some info for this blog, I ran across this headline again, "Earth at Warmest in 400 Years" from 2006 which I do not doubt is accurate.

What I found interesting is the next sentence, "Less Confidence in Temperature Reconstructions Prior to 1600 A.D.". The article goes on to discuss how recreations of temperatures before 1600 A.D. should not be relied upon.

Want to know why?

According to the records, there are warmer periods in history than today but they all occur before 1600 A.D. Discrediting the past makes the present data more accurate.

If there are warmer periods in the past, how can the warming be caused by CO2?
---Mark_Eaton on 3/9/10


"There seems to be at least some evidence of extra CO2"

For there to be "extra" CO2, you have to have a defined "correct" amount of CO2. So what is the proper amount we are supposed to have, who determines this amount and on what basis?
---ralph7477 on 3/9/10

You deny that we are cutting down trees? Have you not heard about deforestation in the rain forests?

No doubt there is more co2. The correct amount is more trees and more oxygen if one is willing to think about it rationally.
---obewan on 3/9/10


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"There seems to be at least some evidence of extra CO2"

For there to be "extra" CO2, you have to have a defined "correct" amount of CO2. So what is the proper amount we are supposed to have, who determines this amount and on what basis?
---ralph7477 on 3/9/10


As a scientist, I can just say two things (1) one very cold winter does not mean that the climate is getting colder - we can have cold winters between warmer summers (2) There seems to be at least some evidence of extra CO2. But this is not what we should be doing. We should be taking care of the earth that God has given us to live on, and thus not over-use it.
---peter3594 on 3/9/10


I only know that God created the weather. I only know that God is in control of it. These things I know. For the Bible tells me so. I need to know no more, This has got to be the most boring hoax.
---catherine on 3/6/10


Donna: "Wish schools spent more time teaching History and the 3 R's instead of this nonsense."

Amen to that! Most states have laws forbidding the teaching of false doctrines to the kids. Maybe it's time to enforce them.
---jerry6593 on 3/6/10


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Glenn -- Funny that Christians can get so exercized about this. They quote all sorts of "authorities", but few quote God's promises to us.

ralph7477-- Yes, FREE people believe in personal responsibility. Socialism makes the government responsible for most everything (which is ever more costly and cumbersome)
---Donna66 on 3/5/10


Surely the point is that there is no proof global warming is caused by human activity. History shows our world has had periods of warming, and of cooling, this not caused by man.

Also we are told CO2 is a pollutant, when it is not, but a vital component of our atmosphere. Without it life could not exist. Scientific experimentation shows plant life blooms in much higher CO2 concentrations.

Nonetheless we should all consider what negative affect our individual lifestyle has upon the earth. We do thoughtlessly use valuable resources. One small example being the drying of clothes. At our home washing is dried free and clean, by God's sun. Imagine how much electricity/gas is wasted in drying washing indoors. What a needless waste.
---Warwick on 3/5/10


While we do have a responsibility to conserve and properly use the earth *1, God has made us some promises *2. Why should we listen to heathens who are telling lies, even less to those who are attempting to use this issue in order to control others *3?
*1 Genesis 1:26-29, 2:15.
*2 Genesis 8:22 (22!), 9:11-17 (16-17!), 2Peter 3:10-13 (true global warming), Revelations 20:9-10.
*3 John 8:43-45, Acts 13:10, 1John 3:8-11.
---Glenn on 3/5/10


We make messes in the course of our pursuits. We also clean them up. Interestingly, the societies with the most freedom are also the cleanest. The communist and collectivist nations run by dictators and socialists most often have the dirtiest environments.
---ralph7477 on 3/2/10

Who does this....? Christ-ian Nations. Who cares? Christian Nations.
Who gives with an open hand...out of the wealth Solomon couldn't have envisioned? Christian Nations. Hmmm, might just be a mark.
Who brings light to the nations in the darkness, in every area,food,science,medical,military? Christian Nations.
One could say Scripturally: Gen28:14,Isa 42:5,6. Gen 27:29, IChron 17,22-27, Jer 31:35-37, Isa 62:2,65:15, Hosea 2:17.
---Trav on 3/5/10


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Ralph7477 -- I don't worry one bit about global warming. Weather is always in a state of flux, anyhow. It's the "Chicken Little" alarmists that annoy me, especially when they scare little children in school.
They have grade schoolers worrying that all the animals will be gone by the time they grow up, or that coastal cities will all be flooded. Wish schools spent more time teaching History and the 3 R's instead of this nonsense.
---Donna66 on 3/5/10


Donna, don't fall prey to the premise that if it gets warmer it will be getting "worse".

What is so bad about warm weather? Why do we want to live in a frigid climate? These global warming alarmists are big hypocrites. They want it to get colder at the same time they want less fossil fuel burning. Well, if it's colder for longer it means that more fuel is being used to heat our homes.

What would be so bad about longer growing seasons. Wouldn't that mean more food for a population that the environmentalists claim is growing too big?

Exactly what is the "correct" temperature for the planet? Nobody has ever answered that and nobody ever will.
---ralph7477 on 3/5/10


Humans should not try to be good caretakers of the earth and thereby each other?
---atheist on 3/3/10

We will be judged on the deeds/works done in this body, whatever their outcome. That includes things done to and for people and animals. It also includes how we managed God's resources and how we used what He gave to us, time, money, and natural resources. It also includes our motives and intentions for the things we did. Lastly, we will answer for every word we spoke, good or bad.

There will not be one thing that escapes God's judgment. Therefore, we should be doing everything to be good stewards of the planet.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/5/10


MarkE: "Global warming in [sic] no hoax."

YES, IT IS!

The tree ring and ice core data have been cooked. Scientists ane no more above lying for profit than are politicians, lawyers and preachers.

You are correct that CO2 has nothing to do with the earth's greenhouse effect. If it did, the earth wouldn't have actually been COOLING for the last 15 years while industrial carbon has been increasing exponentially.

Al Gore stood to make billions from his "carbon offset" scheme. Always follow the money.
---jerry6593 on 3/5/10


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larry -- There may be "overwhelming evidence" that the earth is warming. But what there is little or no evidence for is that warming will continue or get worse.

The present theory was developed by a student writing a paper for his college professor. He developed the so-called "hockey stick curve" and postulated that climate would follow that curve. It became a popular idea, though it could never be substantiated. Many PH.D climate scientists discounted the "curve" from the beginning. But there were political advantages for "pushing" the idea. Thus even reputable scientists were pressured to change data they had already collected in favor of the new theory. It is still a highly debatable theory.
---Donna66 on 3/4/10


larry: "Denial in the face of overwhelming evidence."

Overwhelming evidence? The world is filled with highly educated people debating everything: glogal warming, global cooling, who's at fault, eggs are good for you and eggs are bad for you, video games are good for you and bad for you, not spanking your child is good for the child and bad for the child, and the list goes on and on and on. We even have highly educated people that caused this financial meltdown. What man are you to believe? The world is full of great perplexity and confusion causing people to doubt their own truths.

There is only one truth that is built upon a rock - the Words of God.
---Steveng on 3/4/10


Raplph,

When are you going to take that first step?
---atheist on 3/4/10


AllenUK, Atheist..give up.
We are arguing climate, indisputable and embarrassingly simple notations such as temperature, or in my case El Nino to wing nuts and ideologues.
In the face of continued and first time recorded weather phenomena from Europe to Taiwan, minds will not be changed as the deniers suffer from a collective O.J. moment. Denial in the face of overwhelming evidence.

A goofy Al Gore or emails from idiot leftist scientists don't change something as stubborn and simple as temperature.

The only question is the cause not the phenomena.
As if Global Warming depends on whether people like or hate the former VP? Good grief.
---larry on 3/4/10


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"Now I am confused."-Atheist

And you are just coming to this realization? Better late than never. The first step is admitting it.
---ralph7477 on 3/4/10


Alan of Uk -- I haven't heard of similar problems in any newer nuclear power plants here.

You are so right about wild life. The Delta Smelt is an endangered specie of which most people have never heard. It is probably food for some other fish. But even fish are adaptible....or they rightly become extinct.
Sad to make the farmers suffer.
---Donna66 on 3/4/10


Donna ... Of course Windscale was older than Chernobyl. The pollution from both incidents remains. Chrenobyl type rectors are still in operation, and known danger features have not been completely eliminated from latest designs.

We have a large tidal barrier being held up because of the so-called ecological changes it would bring, including the displacement of wild life. But past things have shown that wild life if displaced from one place usually manages to relocate. I don't know about you smelt fish though, and whether they could, nor how important they are.
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/4/10


Alan of UK-- your Windscale (Sellafield) nuclear energy plant is even older than Chernobyl! No wonder they have problems (aside from falsified records) I thought all those dinosaurs had long ago been decommissioned. Most of their problems have been addressed in newer plants.

My comment about the animals refers to problems such as the tiny Deta Smelt (fish) that our government insists on saving, though, as a result, farmers in the area must shut down due to lack of water. Maybe your government doesn't do such things.
---Donna66 on 3/3/10


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Steven,

Now I am confused.

Are you saying that it's not a sin to pollute?

'God' doesn't care if we despoil earth?

Humans should not try to be good caretakers of the earth and thereby each other?
---atheist on 3/3/10


"That seems clear: 'man' can use and destroy the earth in any matter he sees fit. Sad religion."
atheist
That is just a personal bias inference of Gen 1:26 which equates subdue and dominion with destruction. Man has subdued somewhat his temporal limitations of time and space, he has invented cars, trains and airplanes. Is that destruction or wrong? Do atheists use not such devices?
Farmers know to rotate crops and to let the land rest, such is Biblical too, how is that "Sad religion"? Where is the destruction in that?
---Nana on 3/3/10


atheist: "Steven, So you are saying that it is a sin to pollute our earth? That actually makes sense."

Is that your interpretation of what I said? So be it - only in your mind.
---Steveng on 3/3/10


Donna ... Chernobyl was in the infancy of nuclear power? pull the other one! Plants like that are still operating. And plants that are now being built and being designed still have some of the weaknesses.

But I am a proponent of nuclear power, and wish our government would push ahead with it, sadly our country though the folly of successive governments, has lost our nuclear expertise, and we will have to buy from abroad!

I don't really know how animals come into the discussion! But I do know we need them to feed us, so there's no question of man surviving if animals don't
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/3/10


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Allen of UK- The Chernobyl disaster occurred in 1986...the infancy of nuclear power plants. It's more than twenty years later and a lot of work and research has been done to prevent the very same thing. I know nothing about Windscale, what the damage was or when. Nuclear Power plants are widespread, in some countries the major source of power. Once they are constructed they provide cheap power without polluting the air. And research in nuclear waste disposal is making great strides.

Yes, I'm concerned about pollution and the impact on health. But I am quite skeptical of "scare tactics". I also place a higher value on the survival of man over animals.
---Donna66 on 3/3/10


Termites produce more CO2 than men. Kill termites. Volcanoes pollute more than mankind. Plug volcanoes. Solar activity effects temperature. Fix the Sun. Earth has an eccentric 'wobbly' orbit. Stabilize the planet. Or have confidence in God. Psalm 18:2, 91:2, Proverbs 14:26, Jeremiah 17:7, Matthew 7:7-11, Hebrews 11:6, James 1:5-8, 1John 5:13-14.
p.s. There may be a correlation between the hot air produced at the global warming conferences and rising taxes.
---Glenn on 3/3/10


Donna ... Here in England. Accidents at Windscale (now Sellafield) and Chernobyl.

Acid rain ... Yes I think you're right, the danger was exaggerated.

I'm pleased LA has cleaned itsel up, as London had to.

You do seem to acknowledge that man does pollute, and seem concerned about it. I'm not sure about those who seem quite happy about it, 'cos it's the end times anyway so, why does it matter?
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/3/10


So now we have an Argentinian family that has committed suicide and murdered their children over fear of the Global Warming Hoax. Should Al Gore be held accountable for those deaths?
---jerry6593 on 3/3/10


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In the beginning "...God said, Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness, let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth (Gen. 1:26)."

...Then God blessed them, and God said to them, Be fruitful and multiply, fill the earth and subdue it, have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth (Gen. 1:28).

That seems clear: 'man' can use and destroy the earth in any matter he sees fit. Sad religion.

But why :"our Likeness"---I thought there was only one god.
---atheist on 3/3/10


Steven,

So you are saying that it is a sin to pollute our earth? That actually makes sense.
---atheist on 3/2/10


Alan of UK -- I used to live in the Los Angeles area, at that time the smoggiest place in the US. You couldn't see the city from the air nor could you see nearby mountains from the city. It has improved markedly, I am told. Their air standards are very strict.
But where does "radioactivity" poison the beef and fish? (In some seasons we cannot eat seafood because of fertilizer run-off, another type of pollution)
I've heard that "acid rain" has been discounted as a real danger. Where has any forest been "destroyed" by "acid rain"?
---Donna66 on 3/2/10


Have you people not read the prophesies concerning the end times? Concerning human actions and natural disasters? The root cause of all these catastrophes is sin. As humans become more sinful as the end approaches, so do natural disasters, wars and rumors of wars, perplexity, etc. As love waxes cold, so does the hand of God protect the majority. God has complete control over the weather as God through Jesus calmed the storm, but if there is no love in the world, how does he protect his children when none exist?

For the few that are christians, do not worry about what is happening in the world because all the prophesies must come to pass. Pray that you are worthy enough for God to protect you and yours.
---Steveng on 3/2/10


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Ralph ... You're lucky not to see those clouds of muck which hang over virtually every industrial or heavily populated city.

You're lucky also not to have been in London when thousands died from "smog", You are lucky not to live in a place where acid rain has destroyed forests. You are lucky not to live in an area where you can't eat livestock or fish or seafood because of the radioactive pollution.

I don't think you have the slightest idea how even free societies are damaging the enviromnent.

But I do agree with your comment "The communist and collectivist nations run by dictators and socialists most often have the dirtiest environments"
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/2/10


"And it is quite clear that we are damaging our environment ... have you looked from the wide open spaces towards a city, and seen the cloud of muck hanging over it?"

Actually no, I haven't seen a cloud of muck hanging over anything, but I'm not living where you live.

What do you consider as damage to the environment? All human activity? The fact is that man is also part of the natural world. Our activities are as valid as those of any other living thing. We make messes in the course of our pursuits. We also clean them up. Interestingly, the societies with the most freedom are also the cleanest. The communist and collectivist nations run by dictators and socialists most often have the dirtiest environments.
---ralph7477 on 3/2/10


Most meterologist predicted a colder than normal winter in the East last October so all of the teeth gnashing is misguided.
In Florida we've known this for better part of a year because El Nino provided the buffer against hurricanes and has actually been around since last Spring. Its northerners who were not expecting and usually aren't affected by El Nino who missed the war. And all but weather geeks are clueless about North Atlantic Oscillation so they blindly believe either former VP Gore or the idiocy of people like Glenn Beck.
For the record the pattern should continue well into March.
---larry on 3/2/10


Global warming in no hoax.

We are indeed in one of the warmest periods that we can ascertain by the tree ring and ice core records.

However, two things are uncertain.

One, it is uncertain that carbon fuel emissions are to fault. We are not in the hottest period according to the ice and tree records. The hottest period was not in the last 300 years, not even during the industrial revolution. So carbon fuel emissons did not play a part in causing the heat of that time period.

Second, that reducing carbon fuel emissions will correct the problem. You need to know the cause of a problem to be able to solve its outcome.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/2/10


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No, the postulate is silly. The world does not start and end with the eastern U.S. and this weather pattern where it is much warmer than normal in the northwest is a result of El Nino (The Christ Child) not global warming or cooling.
El Nino is weather while global warming is climate. It would benefit all to know the difference.
If there is any connection at all to the rising temperatures in the Polar Ice Cap its the increase in precipitation from evaporation and thus increased moisture in the air (more rain and more snow).
Global warming in the northern hemisphere is not a hoax. The cause may be up for debate but not the phenomena.
Meanwhile the ice cap in Antartica is actually growning.
---larry on 3/2/10


Jerry,

You call me agnostic because you have a childish penchant for calling people names.

An agnostic leaves open the option that there might be a 'god'. An atheist does not.

Because I am willing to admit and say, "I don't know or we don't know yet", when asked for an explanation a particular natural phenomenon does not make me or anyone else and agnostic.

Would you call me a theist if I said all things unexplainable were caused by the flying spaghetti monster?
---atheist on 3/2/10


Genesis6:6: And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Do you think this is because he knew,being omnipotent and all that no matter what, man would make a horrible mess of his creation, turning canyons into waste dumps, rivers into sewers, lake into cesspools, and choking the air with multitudes of poisons?

The ark thing didn't quite work out, perhaps 'god' is just letting things take their own course this time, knowing the outcome but hoping for better.
---atheist on 3/2/10


Interesting, 'While the earth remaineth...'.
Isaiah 28:23 Give ear, and hear my voice,
give attention, and hear my speech.
24 Does he who plows for sowing plow continually?
Does he continually open and harrow his ground?
25 When he has leveled its surface,
does he not scatter dill, sow cumin,
and put in wheat in rows
and barley in its proper place,
and emmer [4] as the border?
26 For he is rightly instructed,
his God teaches him.

Where is it written that if we poison the earth, it will still yield its fruit? The transformation and reconcentration of elements, people and animals, have already proven to be quite destructive but, carry on.
---Nana on 3/2/10


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Donna,

Psalm 14:1 [[To the chief Musician, [A Psalm] of David.]] The fool hath said in his heart, [There is] no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, [there is] none that doeth good.

'In my experience, atheists believe that atheism, inevitably, is a sign of superior "intelligence".---Donna

Not so. I believe that's some things are for now not know or understood yet, but a certainty that those things not know are not controlled by a supernatural entity, or 'god'.

Theists seem to have a need to explain all unknowns as the handiwork of a 'god'?

Is it a 'Christian' thing to accuse someone you don't know of self-proclaimed superiority and then quote the bible to call him a fool?
---atheist on 3/2/10


Donna: I call him agnostic rather than atheist because that's what he is. When asked what naturalistic force was behind the first life form, his answer was "I don't know." I don't know = agnostic.
---jerry6593 on 3/2/10


jerry 6593 -- It was "atheist" (not agnostic) that asked if you'd published any scientific papers lately. He asked the wrong person.
In my experience, atheists believe that atheism, inevitably, is a sign of superior "intelligence". (Psa 14:1 gives a different perspective)
---Donna66 on 3/1/10


Ralph ... I suppose I was not talking about climate change, but about the way in which we thoughtlessly affect our environment, and even if you don't, I think it's valid to mention thatr in the context of the suggestions that we thoughtlessly change the climate.

And it is quite clear that we are damaging our environment ... have you looked from the wide open spaces towards a city, and seen the cloud of muck hanging over it?

I have no view over warming or cooling, and what is causing it, since I, like everyone else here, do not have sufficient knowledge
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/1/10


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Of course, I interpreted "our weather" in the editorial sense. I won't deny that El Nino is one event in the global climate.

Does anyone remember when 30 or so years ago, global freezing was the big scare?
---Cluny on 3/1/10


Cluny, When I said "El Nino" affects our weather I was referring to "0ur" weather here in Ontario, We had very little snow while Washington and Eastern U S had "snowmageddon"
---1st_cliff on 3/1/10


Alan, the points you raise have nothing to do with climate. We affect our immediate surroundings by our activities. We don't change the millions of complex components of the planet itself, the atmosphere or the sun. God created the universe with cycles. Our puny little activities have zero to do with the vast complex workings of climate.

I don't know what you classify as "noxious fumes", but Co2 is not a "fume". It's part of nature just like oxygen, nitrogen, etc. It makes up a tiny fraction of the atmosphere. Plants need it to live. The alarmists claim that even a small increase in Co2 will cause global devastation. If they really believe that, they should seek to ban it, not tax it. Follow the money.
---ralph7477 on 3/1/10


Ralph ... Whether or not it is global warming, and how much of the climate change is man-made, we can't get away from the fact that we do, by our existence and behaviour, change our environment.

I remember travelling each day into London and being affected healthwise by the smog. We had the sense to change our behaviour, and have reduced smoke pollution now.

And it is possible that the world has a finite optimum population? Paricularly when we pump out noxious fumes everywhere?
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/1/10


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I like ralphs answer. The issue of deforestation,and more and more land, once covered by vegetation being plowed under and concreted over,plants produce oxygen,and over 6 billion people and animal populations surging,they also exhale co2 are probably the 2 biggest contributors to the c02 issue.just how much co2 does 6 billion people contribute to the atmosphere daily?
---tom2 on 3/1/10


Agnostic: "Published any scientific papers lately?" Yep. In the process of publishing one right now - on infrared water transmittance effects.
---jerry6593 on 3/1/10


The world may be warming, but I've never believed it is due to man NOR that man can prevent it. (Actually, it seems to me slightly arrogant of men to assume so). Being a good steward of the earth is fine.

Al Gore is a politician, nothing more (though he might make a good used-car sales man). I never believed he invented the INTERNET, either.

I don't fear any cataclysmic natural events...the oceans overflowing NYC or the polar ice caps melting.

Here's what I DO believe.
Gen 8:22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease
---Donna66 on 2/28/10


\\ El Nino is the choreographer of our weather pattern!
---1st_cliff on 2/28/10\\

I wouldn't say that El Nino is the choreographer of our weather patterns, but it is one of the danseurs nobles.

Does anyone but me remember when Al Gore was causing alarm about the hole in the ozone layer? I recall it clearly.
---Cluny on 2/28/10


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The hoax isn't that temperatures might be warming. I wish it was getting warmer. What's so good about cold? The hoax is that man is the cause of whatever temperature change is taking place.

President Obama is pushing the man-made climate change story as fact. This has led him to use his Executive Branch to classify CO2 as "pollution". Therefore, anybody who is alive and breathing is a polluter simply by exhaling.

Does he really believe that humans can change the temperature of the Earth? Or is he is on the scam? Either way, it's a very troubling realization that such a person is in a position of leadership.
---ralph7477 on 2/28/10


Jerry,

The structure of you question seems to ask if because of recent "information" (what you call 'climategate revelations') whether people believe that idea of climate warming is incorrect.

If one changes their mind about the "global warming hoax" then they must believe that the idea that global warming is a hoax was a hoax and that therefore the idea of global warming is correct.

You politicize and editorialize so much with your questions, its impossible to tell what you mean. Published any scientific papers lately?
---atheist on 2/28/10


If weather people are not yet able to figure out things enough to predict the weather very well, may be no one has figured out about global warming, etc. El Nino could make his contribution. CO2 could be a component. I heard or read that the space program's rockets destroy ozone so more sun rays can get through, and maybe sun rays can penetrate glacier and mountain ice and cause melting. And I read something else, that I don't remember. But isn't the earth with age getting cooler, and therefore *contracting*? So, the earth's crust might be collapsing around the contracting cooling center, causing more and more severe earthquakes as the crust adjusts around the cooling, contracting center.
---Bill_blla5659 on 2/28/10


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