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Teachings Just For The Jew

What teachings were given to the Jew alone and not to the church?

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 ---Lee1538 on 3/2/10
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francis on 3/9/10 Once christ died, all sacrifices ended, and including circumcision.

Where is your scripture when sacrifices ended?

How many gentile churches can you find where moses could have preached?

Can you find any gentile churches at the biblical time of Acts
---michael_e on 3/9/10


Well, since there WERE no churches, early believers listened to the teachings in the synagogue. It's the only place Scripture was taught at the time. Though Gentile believers were not necessarily familiar with the laws of Moses, they heard them there.
---Donna66francis on 3/9/10

Are you saying that the early believers did not establish communities of sunday assembling christians? Not even home / house churches on sundays?

I understand that the unbelieving ( god fearing) Gentiles gathered around the synagogueon sabbaths, but once they accepted christ, why did they not gather with the apostles who were gathering on sundays to celebrate the ressurection of Jesus?
---francis on 3/9/10


framces--why was Moses of old was not taught in any church on Sundays?

Wonder why the gentiles did not ask to meet Next day in one of the churches?

Well, since there WERE no churches, early believers listened to the teachings in the synagogue. It's the only place Scripture was taught at the time. Though Gentile believers were not necessarily familiar with the laws of Moses, they heard them there.
---Donna66francis on 3/9/10


Many teachings for the Jews were never meant for, or given to, the church...laws regarding the tabernacle, the sabboth, circumcision.
---Donna66 on 3/9/10

Once christ died, all sacrifices ended, and including circumcision.

As to the sabbath, well:

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Wonder why Moses of old was not taught in any church on sundays?

Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Wonder why the gentiles did not ask to meet Next day in one of the churches?
---francis on 3/9/10


Vague understanding...difference between called and chosen.
Only One Blood is important it-covers-washes-away ALL sin:Blood of Jesus Christ.
There is not Black blood-there is negro flesh-not white blood-there is Caucasian-not Oriental blood-but-Asiatic.
To my understanding-blood does not determine races(dna does)but...has appointed boundaries.Acts 17:26

God enspoused-and divorced wife:Israel...but...Christ being-the Head of His body(church-engrafted and engaged). Will return complete as groom for His chaste virgin bride to be-wed:Final wedding.
2Cor11-2
Israels Protection-Spirit of slumber
Roman11:1-10
Deut29:2-14
Is29:9-19
Acts2:37

Rom11(all)
vs25 Blindness to Israel...until-fulness of the Gentiles.
---char on 3/9/10




Donna66, AMEN to your last post. The Church is not Israel. This is what I was trying to explain to steven-rem-7000.

When we become Born Again we become members of Christ's Body. Christ is the Head, ane we are members of His Body. To say we become Israel is to take away from that, and our oneness with Christ.

The Church, the Body, of Christ is something so totally NEW. This is the Mystery that was kept secret but is NOW revealed to us.

That a Messiah would come was no secret. That Gentiles would be saved was no secret, as God told Abraham in him would all nations be saved.

What was kept secret was the CHURCH....no longer Jew, not longer Gentile. NEITHER/NOR!!!
---kathr4453 on 3/9/10


Many teachings for the Jews were never meant for, or given to, the church...laws regarding the tabernacle, the sabboth, animal sacrifices, the temple, circumcision.
But the Bible never calls the church "Israel" Only those who receive the New Covenent through the blood of Jesus are the Church.. Jews and Gentiles together.

The OT is the foundation of the Gospel. It is full of wisdom...But that "Israel" and "the Church" are separate, is obvious ...since God actually gave the Jew back their land as He promised! (Neh. 1:8 if you are unfaithful I will scatter you.'
Jer.30:18, 31:8 "Behold I will bring them from the north country and gather them from the ends of the earth."
---Donna66 on 3/9/10


Lee: I note that thus far you have contributed 23 of the 67 entries to this, your own blog. That's 34%. Don't you think that's a bit excessive? Now, although I haven't bothered to read them all, I've read enough to tell that your sole apparent purpose is to spread your peculiar form of religious bigotry. Calling other Christians "Judaizer" indeed. You should be ashamed. How would you like to be called what you really are - an "accuser of the brethren?"
---jerry6593 on 3/9/10


"If physical circumcision was merely replaced by circumcision of the heart then the conclusion of the council would simply have been no circumcision only..., ---Lee1538 on 3/8/10

HUH? come on now. How much did these gentiles really know about the Law of God?
Aparantly not enough, so they had to be taught. These gentiles were used to sarificing to idols, eating any sort of meat ETC, so they had to be taught.

No one who is born again automatically knows everything. These gentiles were " babes" in the christian faith.

Yet i do not see how Lee's statement has anything to do with people converting to christainity becoming Jews.
---francis on 3/9/10


God is not a prejudicial racist. Out of One Blood Jesus has created All nations, One Blood, again, Out of One Blood All Nations are made, again, One Blood every single person comes from One Blood: this means Adam's blood, the first man, his blood spreads from the very first seed all across the entire world, even up to Christ. Basically, there are only 2 races in this world today, namely, the obedient which is the true Israelite, and the disobedient which is the true NonIsraelite: the blessed, and the damned.
---Eloy on 3/8/10




trav - in posting those scriptures, you only confirmed what I posted!

The northern kingdom of Israel ceased to exist after 720 B.C. and its people were either assimilated ....
---Lee1538 on 3/8/10

Well, we are making progress then if the prophets verified for you. The Nth Kingdoms divorce did separate them for a period.
The New Covenant allows them the same position back. Heb 8:8 verifys...unless one choses to ignore.
You would like to label me as a follower it's obvious... of someone, anyone so you could use others critiques to support you. Do your own work/research. Be a man. I follow no one but GOD's son. YAHshua. Try it.
---Trav on 3/8/10


The serious doctrinal problems of believing that Gentile believers became Jews upon conversion is that there would not have been any need at all for a Jerusalem council.

If physical circumcision was merely replaced by circumcision of the heart then the conclusion of the council would simply have been no circumcision only, instead we read only that 'it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements:that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality'.
---Lee1538 on 3/8/10


Jew was first used to denote the nation ( not tribe) of Judah. They were spiritually in tune with God for a while.

Jew is also used to refer to those who are hebrew.

Jew is used in the NT to show seperation between hebrew and none hebrew.

Proselytes were those who had converted to judism, they were now Jews.
regardless of thier nation of origin, they became jews.

Esther 8:17 And in every province, and in every city, whithersoever the king's commandment and his decree came, the Jews had joy and gladness, a feast and a good day. And many of the people of the land BECAME JEWS, for the fear of the Jews fell upon them.
---Francis on 3/8/10


From Gen 12 to half way thru Acts, you can count dealings with gentiles(non-jews) Peter was forced to go to a gentile in Acts 10,after the gentile apostle as called Then Peter went back to Jerusalem. Paul states all the advantages the Jew had, wriings prophets etc. So there were a lot of teachings given to the Jew, and we should be thankful, the judgements layed on them were not pleasant.
---michael_e on 3/8/10


1/2 francis //Romans 2:28-29 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly, neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly, and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter, whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

I believe that if you took the time to study Romans 2:25-29 you would find that the topic here being discussed is the advantage the Jew felt about his status before God.

Being circumcised, he was a member of the covenant people and thus a heir to the Abrahamic covenant.

However circumcision itself without the reality of ones faith & obedience was actually unrighteousness.
---Lee1538 on 3/8/10


Francis:

You are looking at this incorrectly.

Gentiles do not become Jewish when we accept the free gift Jesus paid for. We become Children of God, and God does not show partiality. We are all the same, having all the same benefits, the same inheritance, regardless of nationality, race, gender, background. We are one body, one spirit, one faith, one hope as Eph 4 tells us.

It was the Jew who lost their status. They were the "chosen people" and they banked on this, boasted in this, and were prideful because of it. They thought as long as they were Jews, everything was Okay, God would always take care of them, no matter if they obeyed or not.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/8/10


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Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly, neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

Romans 2:29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly, and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter, whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.
---francis on 3/8/10


So regardles of your nationality ( greek) if you are a believer in christ you are a jew
---francis on 3/8/10

I must strongly disagree with you.

Your statement is contradicted several times in Scripture:

Acts 10:34 "Opening his mouth, Peter said: "I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality"

Gal 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

1 Cor 12:13 "For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit"
---Mark_Eaton on 3/8/10


The word " Gentile" in the bible when referring to christians, is used only to show that they are not Hebrews.

There is no nationality called gentiles.
The proper term should be Greek, or Roman, or lybian as seen in ACTS 2.

Gentile is used only to say that these are none hebrews.

Ephesians 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Ephesians 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God,
---francis on 3/8/10


francis//So regardles of your nationality ( greek) if you are a believer in christ you are a jew.

Totally Disagree!

The issue at the Jerusalem council was whether Gentiles had to be converts to Judaism to be legitimate Christians.

Acts 15:24-25 Forasmuch as we have heard, certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, AND keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul.

It has been the teachings of all the early church fathers that Christains are not also Jews.

Trying to re-write church history? Judaizer!
---Lee1538 on 3/8/10


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God did not make any covenant with none Jews. thus anyone who is a believer in christ, has or is adopted by a Jewish covenant.

So regardles of your nationality ( greek) if you are a believer in christ you are a jew.
and you are spiritually fed from a very jewish book.

And because God / Jesus does not discrimate, all his laws are for all nationalities who accept him as Lord and savour.

Somehow I get the impression that some people believe that there are differnt laws for hebrew believers and seperate laws for none hebrew believers.

That is just not so.

Notice i said HEBREWS and NOT JEWS for all believers in Jesus are Jews
---francis on 3/8/10


Lee1538 wrote
That is just too easy to see for anyone that has read anything about early church history.

I quoted Romans chapter 11 to show you don't understand what your talking about. Thanks for making my point by bring up the Jerusalem council about circumcision.
It is about bragging about being Saved and talking against the Judizers who were the branches broken off so you could be grafted in.
May the rewards that you deserve be given to you according to the word of GOD.
---Ed on 3/8/10


//2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

True all scripture is both Old & New Testaments.

//Isaiah 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one [tree] in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

True that the Jewish people ignored God's provisions to keep them separate from all other people.
---Lee1538 on 3/8/10


Samuel n//If this was true why did Paul teach all scripture is for the church 2 tim 3:16

Because to gain a indepth understanding of the New Testament, one needs the background of the Old Testament. There is much wisdom literature in the OT that is to our benefit and knowledge of the OT is also knowledge of God.

But you may notice that there is a differentiation between the New & Old Covenants and that the OT law was but a guardian or schoolmaster until we could be justified by faith in Christ. Gal. 3 & 4.

The Christian is justified (declared righteous) by faith alone not by obedience to law.
---Lee1538 on 3/8/10


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francis is right about in Old Testament times that the "stanger," gentiles, were to keep the Torah.

In similar manner, Lee is right that today is a time of a New Convenant, and all people, Jews and Gentiles, are to be subject to Christ. Christ is now the High Priest who has entered the Holiest of Holies,and we now can come boldly to the Throne of Grace.

Back to the blog question, many of the teachings of the Torah and the 10 commandments apply to societies of the world, which include believers, but the ability to keep them will not gain God's approval.
---Rod4Him on 3/8/10


//Isaiah 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant,

'my covenant' being the Sinaitic covenant that became obsolete with the New Covenant.Hebr. 8:13,Gal. 4:24f

Gentiles that converted to Judaism were obligated to observe all the tenets of Judaism that distinguished them as a people God has separated from other peoples.

Le 20:26 You shall be holy to me, for I the LORD am holy and have separated you from the peoples, that you should be mine.
---Lee1538 on 3/8/10


When a soul is baptized into Christ, they put on Christ, the Jewish Savior of Jerusalem. Since Jesus is a Jew from the tribe of Judah, and the church is His church, therefore the church is of the Jewish seed of Abraham and heirs and joint-heirs according to the promise: and the New Testament teachings from the Rabbi Jesus apply to all souls (regardless of ethnicity) who will obey him.
---Eloy on 3/8/10


"As to the Sabbath, it is just too easy to see such a ceremonial type law was not imposed on Gentile believers."

--Lee1538 on 3/7/10

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

IS LEE1538 right, :

Isaiah 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant,

LEE1538 IS WRONG

the scriptures say that the sabbath is for every one who covenants with God, jew or stranger.
---francis on 3/8/10


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The New Covenant teachings were directed toward anyone who would believe in Christ despite their nationality. However the Old Covenant was directed ONLY to the Hebrew people and to proselytes to Judaism.
Lee1538

If this was true why did Paul teach all scripture is for the church 2 tim 3:16

Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

When Paul and James wanted to prove their point they quoted the Old Testament. Showing it is for the church also.
---Samuel on 3/8/10


IF

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Isaiah 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one [tree] in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.


Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica,...and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
---francis on 3/8/10


trav - in posting those scriptures, you only confirmed what I posted!

The northern kingdom of Israel ceased to exist after 720 B.C. and its people were either assimilated into the local populations or were scattered throughout the rest of the world. They did not immigrate on mass to Great Britain making the throne of English also the throne of Israel. All that is the whacko view of HW Armstrong designed as a means of supporting his Judaized religion.

The New Covenant teachings were directed toward anyone who would believe in Christ despite their nationality. However the Old Covenant was directed ONLY to the Hebrew people and to proselytes to Judaism.
---Lee1538 on 3/8/10


//The dietary laws are too help you keep Gods Temple clean (your body), and are not a requirement for salavation.(See Noah covenant in Gen.8,9).

There really is no data available that would indicate that ritually unclean foods are any more harmful to the human body than ohter foods. The purpose of the Levitical food laws were strictly to separate the Jewish people from others.

As to the Sabbath, it is just too easy to see such a ceremonial type law was not imposed on Gentile believers. Howbeit, the principle behind the Sabbath - rest one day a week from labor,is certainly valid and is for our benefit.
---Lee1538 on 3/7/10


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It is questionable if the 10 northern tribes of Israel were ever lost in the first place, but were either assimilated ....---Lee1538 on 3/7/10

Is really not questionable unless one doesn't believe scriptures witnessing. GOD did not lose his sheep,man did.
Ezekiel 34:6..my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth,none did search or seek them.
James 1:1
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Ezekiel 36:19I scattered them among the heathen, they were dispersed through the countries:
Ezekiel 34:12
As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered, so will I seek out my sheep,
---Trav on 3/8/10


When readins post about what is for the church and what is for the Jew, is that in the NT ( church) there are NO NEW writings.
The people who wrote the NT simple quoted from the old, and showed how it applied in the needed situation.

There is nothing in pauls writings that are not found in the OT.

Plus paul says ALL SCRIPTURE is giving by inspiration....
and The Bereans search the scripture daily...

In both passages scripture here is OT writings.

the proof of what the apostles were teaching was to be found only in the writings of the OT.

Only Revelation has a few new things
---francis on 3/8/10


Lee
I quoted Romans to show you what you missed in your classes.
We have been over the circumcised debate in Acts before. Circumcision is a covenant with Abraham and his offspring, not a requirement for Salavation.
The dietary laws are too help you keep Gods Temple clean (your body), and are not a requirement for salavation.(See Noah covenant in Gen.8,9).
However the Sabbath was set as a foundation by Elohim and Yeshua in Genesis (verse 2:3), saying that is now up to you to do with it what you will. Peace be with you
---Ed on 3/7/10


---MIchael
-Rom 10:4 ... yes you can't be made righteous by the the law
1Cor 1:30a But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness
1:30But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from Godand righteousness and sanctification and redemption 31 that, as it is written, He who glories, let him glory in the LORD."
I take my understanding of the Scripts from the Holy Spirit, and all the glory is GOD'S
Understand?
Peace be with you
---Ed on 3/7/10


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//are the Nth House/Lost Sheep of the 13 nations of Israel.

It is questionable if the 10 northern tribes of Israel were ever lost in the first place, but were either assimilated into other peoples or simply relocated to the various cities of the Mediterranean world.

The idea the 10 tribes of Israel went to Great Britain is totally indefensible. That is simply something the old Herbert W. Armstrong dreamt up to justified his Judaizing religion.

Stranger still is the belief the throne of England is also the throne of David. And that the current Queen of England Elizabeth II is also 'queen of thy people Israel'. See Walter Martin Kingdom of the cults, page 309.

But that is what their prophets squawk about!!!!
---Lee1538 on 3/7/10


17 And if some of the branches were broken off,....

.... how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
. Peace
---Ed on 3/5/10

Peace to you. I think you see the context of who spoken of here. But for others who don't: The natural branches....are the Nth House/Lost Sheep of the 13 nations of Israel. Natural Branches. Divorced. Redeemed.
---Trav on 3/7/10


There are always those that believe the church has fallen into error and that God has commissioned them to reform His church or to restore it to its once pristine state.

But why should we believe them?

Do they have a burning bush in their backyard from which God speaks as He did Moses? Exodus 3:2f

Or do they have a staff like Aaron's that 'sprouted and put forth buds and produced blossoms, and bore ripe almonds'? Numbers 17:8f

Paul9594, we all would be grateful if you attempted an answer.....
---Lee1538 on 3/6/10


//The Father is into restoring,you will see more of us who understand the righteousness of the Law, in the spirit of love: Christ.

what is truly suspect about that comment is the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists and many of the sects viewed as cults claim to be the ones that God is using to reform His church.

However they fail that test since they advocate practices that have not been mandated to the church AND they have interpretations that are seemly at odds with what the Church has held over the centuries.

For instance, many push the view that the New Covenant is nothing more than a renewal of the Old Covenant thus maintianing that the church need go back under the law of Moses.



---lee1538 on 3/6/10


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1Tim 1:5-10 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and [of] a good conscience, and [of] faith unfeigned: From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling, Desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. But we know that the law [is] good, if a man use it lawfully, Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, ...and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine,
Rom 10:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
1Cor 1:30a But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness
--Understand?
---MIchael on 3/6/10


Lee1538:
posts:
For one to sanction your position, one would have to conclude the Apostles failed to convey the truth of the Scriptures to their successors, causing them to fall immediately into doctrinal error. ///


No the Apostles were sucessful in conveying true doctrine, but the FALSE dominating doctries DID NOT support the Apostles. The church DID GROW daily, as many as 3,000 would be added to the church in one day.

Also many times, believers were being added daily to the church of the Apostles.

Only with time the message was corrupted, the corruption is even greater today!

The Father is into restoring,you will see more of us who understand the righteousness of the Law, in the spirit of love: Christ.
---Paul9594 on 3/6/10


ED - In quoting Romans 11 you should realize that the Gentiles were grafted into the household of God, not into the Jewish religion. Otherwise there would not have been any need for a Jerusalem council to determine if Gentile converts had to be circumcised (the rite of entrance into the Jewish religion) and observe the laws of Moses.

That is just too easy to see for anyone that has read anything about early church history.
---Lee1538 on 3/6/10


//So they Law given was in fact to a MIXED MULTITUDE of Hebrews and None Hebrews

Yes I totally agree with you that the Lord gave the law not only to the Hebrew people but also to those who (namely Egyptians) JOINED themselves to the Hebrew people.

Those that left with the Hebrew people were obigated to come under the governorship and religion of the Jewish nation.

The covenant was NOT given to the nation of Egypt, Greece, or other nations.

So your contention that just because a mixed crowd came out of Egypt, does not mandate other nationalities came under the Sinai covennant.
---Lee1538 on 3/5/10


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//I was given a gift the other day from the spirit and the time is upon us even as we speak. It seem that this passover is important for some reason.

Has the Christian church ever observed the Jewish Passover?

Of course church history reveals that Jewish Christians in the early church continued to observe the Jewish festivals, Sabbath(s), temple worship, etc.

However it is very plain from all the writings of the early church fathers that Gentiles were not commanded to observe Jewish laws. If they had, then the Christianity would have been viewed as just another Jewish sect and may have been destroyed during the Jewish rebellions of 70 & 135 A.D.
---Lee1538 on 3/5/10


Romans 11:

16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy, and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19 You will say then, Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in. 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. Peace
---Ed on 3/5/10


Romans 11:
22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity, but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
. Peace
---Ed on 3/5/10


Romans 11:
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:


The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness
from Jacob,
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.

PEACE.
---Ed on 3/5/10


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LEE

Exodus 12:38 And a mixed multitude went up also with them, and flocks, and herds, [even] very much cattle.

So they Law given was in fact to a MIXED MULTITUDE of Hebrews and None Hebrews

MIXED MULTITUDE thatis hebrews and EGYPTIANS and maybe other nations

And all the laws are for anyone regardles sof nationality who chooses to follow God
---francis on 3/5/10


Samuel - true God made covenants with individuals - Adam, Noah, Abraham, and David but to peoples, God made covenants only with the Hebrew people not with other nations.

//All of the Hebrew Scripture is for Christians. That is what Paul told Timothy. But not all applies to us.

But what criteria is used to determine which is applicable?

Your Sabbaterian friends simply believe the New Covenant is only a renewed (rehashed)Sinaitic covenant. But believing that makes foolishness of what Paul addressed in Galatians 4.24f when he compares the 2 covenants.

But such is the false Jesus and false gospel of works that the Judaizers promote.
---Lee1538 on 3/5/10


All the covenants which God has ever made were with the Hebrew people, not with other nations or peoples.

Lee1538

Then you think Adam, and Noah were Hebrews?

The first Covenant GOD made was with Adam and Eve and the Second was with Noah. Abraham was the Father of the Hebrew people but I am not sure you could have called him Hebrew.

All of the Hebrew Scripture is for Christians. That is what Paul told Timothy. But not all applies to us. Just like we do not build arks of either kind.
---Samuel on 3/5/10


//That was for the one who has the spirit in him and he understood what I was saying.

Do you think a good exorcist could cure a dedictated Judaizer?
---Lee1538 on 3/5/10


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...Le 20:26 You shall be holy to me, for I the LORD am holy,have SEPARATED you from the peoples, that you should be mine.
De 14:2 For you are a people holy to the LORD your God,the LORD has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession, OUT OF ALL THE PEOPLES who are on the face of the earth.
---Lee1538 on 3/4/10

Light. Sheep found 189 times in scripture.
Psalm 44:11
Thou hast given us like sheep appointed for meat, and hast scattered us among the heathen.
Jeremiah 23:1
Woe be unto pastors that destroy and scatter sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.
Jeremiah 50:6
My people hath been lost sheep:..
Matthew 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
---Trav on 3/5/10


We have at least one on this forum that truly believes the New Covenant is nothing less than a renewed Covenant - a rehash of the old Sinaitic covenant.
---Lee1538 on 3/3/10

That was for the one who has the spirit in him and he understood what I was saying.

Thanks Paul for the kind words. I was given a gift the other day from the spirit and the time is upon us even as we speak. It seem that this passover is important for some reason. Peace be with you always.
---Ed on 3/4/10


//BAD NEWS FOR YOUR GUYS

How ridiculous some of the things your guys beleive in to try to impose distinctly Jewish laws onto His church.

All the covenants which God has ever made were with the Hebrew people, not with other nations or peoples.

Le 20:26 You shall be holy to me, for I the LORD am holy and have SEPARATED you from the peoples, that you should be mine.

De 14:2 For you are a people holy to the LORD your God, and the LORD has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession, OUT OF ALL THE PEOPLES who are on the face of the earth.

The only way a foreigner could come under the laws of Israel would be if and only if he became a proselyte.

Suggest you discharge your stupid mentors.
---Lee1538 on 3/4/10


Paul9594 - //I'm glad my position has little or no support like the Apostle's position!

For one to sanction your position, one would have to conclude the Apostles failed to convey the truth of the Scriptures to their successors, causing them to fall immediately into doctrinal error.

I do not believe we can make that conclusion from the writings of the early church.

And who are you to say the Spirit of Christ was a very poor shepherd of His church or that your sects alone possesses the truth not given to His church as a whole?

But such is the teachings of the Mormons,SDA, former Worldwide Church of God and other deviant groups that His church lost the teachings of Christ.
---Lee1538 on 3/4/10


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Ex 12:48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it, and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.--better get circumcised.
Lev 22:18-19 Speak unto Aaron, and to his sons, and unto all the children of Israel, and say unto them, Whatsoever [he be] of the house of Israel, or of the strangers in Israel, that will offer his oblation for all his vows, and for all his freewill offerings, which they will offer unto the LORD for a burnt offering, [Ye shall offer] at your own will a male without blemish, of the beeves, of the sheep, or of the goats.--Got your goat?
---MIchael on 3/4/10


BAD NEWS FOR YOUR GUYS

Somehow, i get the impression that people think that only Jews / hebrews came out of Egypt.

Sorry, wrong, circle gets the square.

They were a MIXED MULTITUDE hebrews and none hebrews

Exodus 12:38 And a mixed multitude went up also with them, and flocks, and herds, [even] very much cattle.

So they Law given was in fact to a MIXED MULTITUDE of Hebrews and None Hebrews
---francis on 3/4/10


Lee1538 posts:

Since your position has had little or no support from His church to this time, we can reject it.///

Is there anything new under the sun?

Wasn't Christ position with little or no support in His day?

The apostles position had little or not support, so those not receiving it were destroyed in 70 AD.

You just prove yourself of the Pharisee doctrines voiding the commandments of God with your tradtions, which are not of the Word of Christ!

I'm glad my position has little or no support like the Apostle's position!





---Paul9594 on 3/4/10


there are NO teaching which are for Jews only.

Observe:
Exodus 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Numbers 15:16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.


Isaiah 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant,

Isaiah 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, ... for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Word of God is for ALL MEN/ Women who which to covenant with God.
---francis on 3/4/10


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//Did God tell us to observe these [OT]feasts or did God simply write selective OT laws onto the heart?

Paul9594's reply - Yes, The Father writes IN OUR HEARTS, ALL His laws EVEN His appointed days(feasts), in their spiritual intent.
---------------
Thank you so very much as we finally got you to confess you are a follower of Herbert W. Armstrong, one of the breakaways groups, or some other similar sects generally viewed as a cult.

Biblical oriented sects and even the Roman Catholic has never held that believers become Jewish upon converstion. The Jerusalem council settled that issue Acts 15 back in the 1st century.

Since your position has had little or no support from His church to this time, we can reject it.
---Lee1538 on 3/4/10


What teachings were given to the Jew alone and not to the church?
Try the OT. from Gen 12:2 Where God tells Abram, I will make of you a great nation. Clear to Acts 11:19 preaching to the Jew only. See if you find your Church language in there. Example try Lev. 5
---michael_e on 3/4/10


While the teachings to the Jews was embodied within the Old Sinaitic Covenant, that covenant was replaced by the New Covenant which has its own tenets, thro some in common.

For instance, the Old Covenant taught physical circumcision, observance of holy days, and other rites required of followers, the New Covanant does not require such tenets of converts.

Under the New Covenant, there is no requirement as to foods, nor is there need to observe Jewish festivals (Sabbaths), that have meaning only for the Jewish people.(see Acts 15, Romans 14)

If one believes certain OT commands are applicable and others are not, one needs a burning bush or some papal type to tell which commands are applicable and which are not.
---Lee1538 on 3/4/10


What teachings were given to the Jew alone and not to the church?

None. All the teachings in the bible are for those who have accepted God/ Jesus as lord and savour.

There is no Jew or Geek in the entire Bible when it comes to salvation
---Francis on 3/4/10


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yes, we can be happy that for those in Christ there will be no condemnation. (Romans 8:1 ESV)

Their salvation is secured as Christ Jesus is their righteous, redemption and sanctification. 1 Cor 1:30 Of course, there are those who believe Christ was a liar when He said whomsoever believes in Him has eternal life and will be saved from the wrath to come.


As to the remnant spoken of in Revelation, the reference is to Jewish believers in Christ during the Great Tribulation, after the time of the Gentiles had been fulfulled and the church has been resurrected and the Rapture has occured.
---Lee1538 on 3/3/10


Ed//I can not believe that anyone who is Christian (believer in the anointed one) would believe that its just another Jewish sect ,,,!!

There are splinter groups that broke away from the Worldwide Church of God. Some belong to the Intercontinental Church of God, the British-Israel Church of God as well as some of the other whacko sects that claim they came from the 10 Lost Tribes of Israel. They all teach that believers must observe the Jewish feasts, dietary laws, holy days, etc. They reject the decision of the Jerusalem council Acts 15.

We have at least one on this forum that truly believes the New Covenant is nothing less than a renewed Covenant - a rehash of the old Sinaitic covenant.
---Lee1538 on 3/3/10


Ed:

U posted:
I am glad you have been circumcised of the heart and understand the meat of the scripts....///

Ed, I'm also glad to see you are circumcised of the heart.

It's good to know that your are part of the remnant that should be saved, and that you continue to stay separate from the apostate teachings of men!


Peace
---Paul9594 on 3/3/10


Hi, Lee . . . you have made yourself clear, I would say. I'd say there are things in the early scripture that are or can be very good for us, if God has us doing them the way *He* pleases. But basically I see what God has me doing in His peace.

Sean, possibly you do not know the Bible. And possibly you are seeing "God" the way certain false Christians have represented Him. One example of what I mean is God is not just about having us serve Him. You might look at Luke 10:38-42, for an excellent demonstration of this. And I think you can start a blog where we can discuss with you. This blog is for discussing Lee's question, I understand.
---Bill_bila5659 on 3/3/10


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Lee1538
I can not believe that anyone who is Christian (believer in the anointed one) would believe that its just another Jewish sect (Jesus was a member of the tribe of Judah or a Jew)!! The ordnance's were nailed to the cross (no more animal sacrifices or control by the Priest hood). The dietary laws were never a requirement for Salvation (Noah covenant, Genesis 9:1-17). Being unique to the fact is that the GOD you worship is the same one who wrote the Bible, and is THE ONE AND ONLY GOD. That is if you worship the same one Jesus(the Jew)talks about in his ministry. Peace unto you.
---Ed on 3/3/10


I feel we are told to deliver the message to all and how they deal with that message is their responsibility. Biblically speaking we must Shake the dust from our feet.
---mima on 3/3/10

Amen!!!
We are to show our light to a lost and dying world. Share God's word and truth.
Once we do that, if they don't receive it and believe it, then we are to shake the dust off our feet.

Amen, Amen!!!
Now some are going to start with that whole "Got to have the Holy Spirit IN them first" thing before they can be saved.
I am still waiting on scripture that says that, too. My Bible says "ON" not "IN". There is a BIG difference.
---miche3754 on 3/3/10


Bill_bila5659 - Basically what did God teach to the Jewish people that also became part of the teachings of the Church?

What tenets do each share? (A tenet being something accepted as an important truth).

The question is posed because some believe the Christian faith is simply another Jewish sect, that effectively believers in Christ simply become Jewish and thus obligated to observe all or some of the laws, rituals, ordinances,statues, dietary laws, and other unique observances of Judaism.
---Lee1538 on 3/3/10


"jody, i completely disagree. keep your religion to yourself, nobody likes a preachy christian" this statement by Sean is what the world think of us.

I feel we are told to deliver the message to all and how they deal with that message is their responsibility. Biblically speaking we must Shake the dust from our feet.
---mima on 3/3/10


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jody, i completely disagree. keep your religion to yourself, nobody likes a preachy christian. Im agnostic and i wouldn't even think of being so rude as to preach to people that unless they believe in MY god then they will suffer in hell. the god you believe in sounds no different than the qualities of Satan. god seems to demand complete and utter allegiance and when he doesn't get it he makes you suffer. god seems to be very morbid and sadistic, not to mention power hungry. there are so many flaws with god that its insane.
---sean on 3/2/10


who created god? before christ was born where did people go when they died? was god just sitting around for billions of years before he decided to create? why does god magically cure diseases we cant see but has never cured an amputee? what motivated god to create? how could god be motivated if there was nothing before him to motivate him? why is god so pathetic as to create a race of people for the sole purpose of serving him?
---sean on 3/2/10


I hope this isn't going to be another blog about which day is the Sabbath which is "a shadow of things to come". Plllllease....preach the gospel and get people saved instead of straining out gnats. Love...Love....Love...Love...Love..Love..........
---jody on 3/2/10


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