ChristiaNet MallWorld's Largest Christian MallChristian BlogsFree Bible QuizzesFree Ecards and Free Greeting CardsLoans, Debt, Business and Insurance Articles

Living Together Before Marriage

Is living together a sin if you are planning to get married?

Join Our Christian Penpals and Take The Dating & Marriage Quiz
 ---Moderator on 3/2/10
     Helpful Blog Vote (16)

Post a New Blog



To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

We live before the world a Righteous Life --Rev. Benjamin

Brethren, We Live BEFORE God, not the world. Unbelievers don't recognize our Lives as Righteous, b/c they lack the Loving Power of our God given Sound Minds to make & view Righteous Judgments. 1Cor.2:12-14

The world falls to the evil temptations of all, God's Children do not. 2Peter 2:9 .. and unlike those here who take their HATS OFF, we don't mislead others to what God's Word meant by abstain from all appearance of evil : which is to Pray without ceasing while Rejoice evermore, not rendering evil for evil. 1 Thess.5:14-22

That verse's warning has nothing to do with this Blog's subject, which isn't sin.
---Shawn.M.T on 3/18/10


My hats are off to the Godly women on line here. Blessed are you when man say all manner of evil against you for righteousness sake.

Just as Satan used the Word of God in tempting Jesus, so here we have, the Word of God abused by those who not only abuse Gods Word, but Gods Children.

Jesus reply, Thou shall not tempt the Lord thy God. The Godly last reply here, abstain from ALL appearance of evil.

We live before the world a Godly, Righteous life before not only other believers, but unbelievers. Above that would be living a Godly Righteous life before all Angels, who look upon us in awe who too witness the works of Christ in us.
---Rev._R.G._Benjamin on 3/18/10


Kathr, the garbage you are hearing is coming from you. You just haven't been listening to yourself. You speak in other blogs as if your heart is pure but it is fill with sin, and only those who abide with you will believe what you say is true. No, you are not the only one doing the work of the enemy, but you are one of them. It does not mean you do not know Christ, only that you are in rebellion to God.
If you stopped one day, and say, "Lord, I want to change, please, in the name of Jesus, I want to be a different person." That day you will change.
---Bobby-1 on 3/17/10


Bobby1 my last words here

The Lords Prayer


Lead us NOT into temptation!!!

Good Day Sir!!
---kathr4453 on 3/17/10


Kathr, again your stupid answers follow you because we do not agree it is sin and you do, so you try to stab us in the back by telling us we would not mind for our daughters to live with someone. Only an evil person would come out with that stupid answer.
In answer to that question, I would never mind my daughter living with someone without fornication, then to ever live with you. For the evil you see in others is really the evil within you. You are a blind person filled with hate.
---Bobby-1 on 3/17/10




We're not to advise one another with the fears of how others may look on something as the appearance of sin, b/c God has not given us the spirit of fear, but of Power, Love & a Sound Mind.

As our Brothers & Sisters keepers, we're to advise them to use the Loving Power of their God given Sound Mind to know what is sin and abstain from it, b/c anything could give the appearance of sin, and the only ones looking on the outward appearance of things are the speculators, skeptics, murmurers & nay sayers : Who have yet to Learn & Understand that looking at God's peculiar people that way is not the Lord's Way of doing things.
---Shawn.M.T. on 3/17/10


I've never heard so much GARBAGE in my whole life!
---kathr4453 on 3/17/10


Now since ShawnMT, Bobby1 and BruceB believe this is ok, I would like to ask each of you to give your own personal testimony of YOUR shacking up before YOU got married. Please give us your TIPS on how YOU stayed out of trouble.

OR, is this just speculative talk going on here, just your THEORY?
---kathr4453 on 3/17/10


Well thought you would like to know the stats so far.

WOMEN responding here overwhelmingly say it is sin.

More woman have responded.

The Men who have responded with the exception of Shawn MT, Bobby1 and BruceB who obviously would give their daughters the blessing to go live with someone, and BruceB telling his daughter,"Hay, if Mary did it, go for it!"

Ladies, be careful who's teaching your Children in Sunday School ! I am not kidding!

And a special thank you to Carl..Carl, thank you...you put it all in proper perspective.
---kathr4453 on 3/17/10


-- Miche :

Sister, I want to add, "I know you never said it was a sin" !!

We're not to advise one another with the fears of how others may look on something as the appearance of sin, b/c God has not given us the spirit of fear, but of Power, Love & a Sound Mind.

As our Brothers & Sisters keepers, we're to advise them to use the Loving Power of their God given Sound Mind to know what is sin and abstain from it, b/c anything could give the appearance of sin, and the only ones looking on the outward appearance of things are the speculators, skeptics, murmurers & nay sayers : Who have yet to Learn & Understand that looking at God's peculiar people that way is not the Lord's Way of doing things.
---Shawn.M.T. on 3/17/10


BruceB,:

To be espoused to another was a LEGAL contract, just as legal as a marriage contract, needing a bill of divorcement to break the contract. No such contract exists today with those engaged to be married living together.

The espousal could have been made as early as 3 years old. Parents made such contracts for their children/daughters. The daughter espoused to the one promised did not leave her Fathers home until the marriage. Mary was not thrown out of her Fathers home to go live with Joseph. Being DEVOUT Jews under law, no such arrangement without a legal marriage would have been tolerated by either Josephs or Marys families.
---Carl_Levett on 3/17/10




Miche, maybe we should obey this verse and leave it at that.



Titus 3:10-11

10A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject,

11Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.


Proverbs 9:8
Reprove not a scorner,(scoffer) lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.

We know who is SCOFFING at God here!


Those who tell the truth LOVE one another...those who hate the truth will scoff/scorn and ridicule! They are reprobates!
---kathr4453 on 3/17/10


kathr,

Espoused WIFE is used to differentiate from WIFE. It's simply a matter of exactness. And, as you stated, they were, inevitably, "married". However, under Jewish law, the espoused ones did not become "legally bound in marriage" UNTIL consumation. (Rather legalistic, weren't they?).

But hey... since you cannot survive without a constant influx of successful contentions, I submit: and I shall forego any further argument.

(Of course, as always, you may have the last word on the matter, my dear.)
---BruceB on 3/17/10


Amen Michael and Kath.

Michael, great scripture, bro!!

Kath, you are so right.
It says "espoused" because they had not consummated their marriage yet.
God told Joseph not to until Mary had delivered the Messiah, Jesus.
Then he was free to consummate his marriage to Mary.
---miche3754 on 3/17/10


Miche, when two people live together without fornication, it is not a sin. It might give you and those who think like you the appearance they are sinning, but the only people sinning are the one's who judge falsely they are. For you have taken something innocent and called it sin. And when you see it, and judge it as sin, then you spread that false sin by gossiping to others, for it is you who opens the door to sin, whether to your husband or friend, by telling them what those people are doing living together and you bring more sin from where there was none.
---Bobby-1 on 3/17/10


-- Miche :

Just living together as roommates is not sin. I had a male roommate. But if you're planning on getting married... NO you should not. --Miche on 3/16/10

Sister, Not giving place to the devil, deals with lying & unforgiven anger. While abstaining from the appearance of evil, has nothing to do with PERSONAL ASSUMPTIONS of others, but everything to do with not rejoice evermore & ceasing in Pray, rendering evil for evil. To Understand God's standards about these subjects read Eph.4:25-27 1 Thess.5:15-21.

Miche, While we're to advise couples planning marriage to abstain from sin : Them living together, just as for roommates, isn't sin !!!

Grace Unto You & Peace Be Multiplied
---Shawn.M.T. on 3/17/10


BruceB, I have no doubt about the definitions and processes of betrothed/espoused etc. However we also KNOW Joseph and Mary MARRIED. The EXACT date is not recorded however they WERE married. If not all the rest of their children would be illegitimate. Joseph did not KNOW( as in relations) Mary intimately until AFTER teh birth of Jesus. THEN was the marriage I believe already took place sometime during her pregnancy CONSUMMATED..

Matthew 1:16
And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
---kathr4453 on 3/17/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Dedicated Hosting


Part 2 Please print..

kathr,

Lu 2:4 ...unto the city of David...
5 ...To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.

What part of "espoused wife" is it you don't understand? BruceB

Bruce, what part of espoused WIFE don't you understand?


BEFORE going to be taxed she was his espoused...when going to be taxed it says his espoused WIFE...They married, but not yet had consummated the marriage.
---kathr4453 on 3/17/10


1The 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
Rom 12:17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
1Cor 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh
Mat 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
---MIchael on 3/17/10


Bobby,
I didn't say it was sin. I said it appears to be sin. The bible tells us to not give place to the devil by doing things that LOOK like sin but aren't.
We are our brothers and sisters keepers, so we must not even give the appearance of sin.
Living together before marriage gives hat appearance. If you do this you open the door for gossips and slanderers and then you lose your witness because you did something that looked like sin.
We are not supposed to act like the world. We are supposed to be a called out peculiar people who do things God's way.
---miche3754 on 3/17/10


kathr,

Lu 2:4 ...unto the city of David...
5 ...To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.


What part of "espoused wife" is it you don't understand? Or are you saying Luke, who was probably the most literally accurate of the apostles--recognized as such for his being a "doctor"--somehow, got it wrong?

(You may want to study up on what espousal process actually was in those days. Where do you think bundling-boards came from?)

And how is it you derive, from my comment, that I said they were intimate during the espousal?
---BruceB on 3/17/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Online Marketing


Donna, 'the truth is, its almost impossible" were you words. If its truth. then it is impossible, not almost. And if it is almost, then it means not every time.
All of you seem to say it is sin, only because you think it is, so you judge without even knowing, because your conscience tells you it is. Not because it really is.
It says abstain from all appearances of evil. But it does not say if you don't it is sin.
Kathr does not abstain from all appearances of evil. And Miche likes what she does, so she defends it, she also is not abstaining from all appearance of evil.
---Bobby-1 on 3/16/10


So Bruce, to use this as an example of living together is appalling. There is only ONE MARY and no other situation whatsoever has ever duplicated itself in this lifetime. Praise God Joseph took care of Mary, being with Child, that of God...or she might have been stoned by anyone, anywhere.
---kathr4453 on 3/16/10


Please print Part 2...

Bruce, there seems to be a different or more detailed account in Matthew.



Matthew 1:18-25 reads: "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily. But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife:

SO, just because there is no account of the CEREMONY, doesn't mean there wasn't a private one!!!!
---kathr4453 on 3/16/10


Bobby, did you even read my post? are you trying to have cake and eat too? get milk without buying the cow.
NO SHACKING UP!!!

we are addressing the actual question that was asked.
You aren't.
You are generalizing living together.
Maybe you should go back and re-read my post.

And Thank you for the complement comparing me to Kath. She is an intelligent woman that knows God's word and you call her names because your flesh can stand a woman being smarter than you.
Maybe you should understand what God's standards are about a subject like this. I suggest some of Donna's post, or Kath.
Do not even show the appearance of sin!
---miche3754 on 3/16/10


Send a Free Valentine's Day Ecard


Mt 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost...
24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

Lu 2:4 ...unto the city of David...
5 ...To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.


The key words, Espoused Wife, means "promised into marriage". It don't mean "married". They were "living" together though "without consumation"
---BruceB on 3/16/10


Bobby1--

Th 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

If you live together with a woman, EVERYBODY will assume you having sex, whether or not you are. You will appear to be a fornicator.

The truth is that it is almost impossible to co-habit without eventually sleeping together. If you believe otherwise, you are vastly underestimating the power of sexuality.
---Donna66 on 3/16/10


I really believe those who do live together, giving a very BAD example to young people especially, are those who could care less about giving an APPERANCE of evil, because they dont care about anyone but themselves. There attitude is SO WHAT! What business is it of yours. You dont know what does or doesnt go on in the privacy of my home. These people are not a LIGHT that shines before the unbelieving world. They dont care(SELFISH) about the unbelieving world or the youth of Believers.

But WHY are we told not to even give an APPERANCE of Evilis it because we could be the blame of someone stumbling. Scripture seems to say so. Another personal testimony of NO ACCOUNTABILITY!
---kathr4453 on 3/16/10


Miche, speaking for Kathr puts you in the same oven telling lies.
No one commits sin for just living together, whether you are planning to marry or not, so long as you keep from fornication.
You answer, it is sin, without sin been committed. Are you making the laws now as she is?
Nowhere in the bible does it say we sin for just living together.

Before you speak you should look up the scriptures. Any implications of maybe or not, is not fact. "Looks like" as you said, might look like to you and Kathr but not to someone else.
---Bobby-1 on 3/16/10


Read These Insightful Articles About VoIP Service


Well Bobby1 , here it is. You have a right to your OPINION and I have a right to mine.

If you want to follow the teaching of liars that's your business. If you exalt these men and call them godly teachers, that's your business.

I didn't lure you into believing them...you believe them because of the hardness of your own heart.

I HAVE ANSWERED ALL YOUR QUESTIONS! Take it or leave it..They WANT men to be in admiration of THEM, and you certainly do that!
---kathr4453 on 3/16/10


Ya know Bobby1, I wonder when MarkV stands before God if God will say the same thing to him He said to Job..."Where were you that YOU speak for me on such matters, that you were here and think you know this or that about Me before I created the Heavens and earth.


But not only on this issue, but many others. Another one..

WHO do you think YOU are telling people I did send my Son to die for their sin, for the sin of the WHOLE WORLD, not only for yours but THEIRS also as I spoke through John ..that I did not desire all men to come to repentance that I spoke through Peter.

Oh what a day of reckoning that will be!
---kathr4453 on 3/16/10


Kathr, you make me laugh when you say you love me. Now there is a lie above all lies. The more you say the more lies that come out of you. I do not believe you are stupid, you give stupid answers and attack others whom you dislike.

You do display a spirit like that of Jezebel, maybe not the same one, but similar to hers. When I read that blog it reminded me of you, that's why I mentioned it. At the same time I heard Evis song, "Hard headed women." and that evil Jezebel.

You do cause others to sin. You tempt them. You do not cause me to sin, I'm speaking from the flesh to you because that is the only language you speak most of the time.
---Bobby-1 on 3/16/10


Some would have you believe on nothing but their speculations.
In the beginning, God (Genesis 1:1) These was a time, if time could be called. In the unity of His nature (subsisting equally in three Divine persons) dwelt all alone. There was no heaven, there was no earth, there was no angels, no universe, there was nothing, no one, but God. Not only for a day, but from everlasting. ------.
---MarkV. on 3/15/10

another of MarkV's lies. Job 38:4-7 Angels DID existed before the foundation of the world.
Job 38:4-7
4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. ----7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God( angels) shouted for joy?
---kathr4453 on 3/16/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Settlements


Bobby, the question says "living together if you plan on getting married" NOT just living together.

Just living together as roommates is not sin.
I had a male roommate. We slept at separate ends of the house, etc..

But if you are planning on getting married....
NO you should not being living together.
The Bible says do not give place to the devil.
And to shun even things that LOOK like it might be sin.
---miche3754 on 3/16/10


Kathr, you should rephrase all of your answers for you are wrong on all of them. This way you don't have to say you lied about anyone of them. Because lying is a sin also. Repent again.

Limited: "To set a limit" to "Restrict."
You don't know Calvinism and it's teachings, how do you know Neo Calvinism? You do know how to make things up.

Living together is not a sin. Fornication is sin. Do you have proof people didn't live together before the 60's? More double talk but the same spirit.
---Bobby-1 on 3/16/10


Now Bobby1, what I see is this same PATTERN here, MarkV Fighting with everyone HERE tooth and nail who don't agree with Calvinism.

I also see so much Hypocracy too. If some see genesis 1:1 & 2 differently then he does, ( seeing one must ask what and where and when (IN THE BEGINNING actually was...Did God exist before the Beginning, If God in the beginning created the Heaven and earth, why if in His perfect creation was it without form and VOID and darkness fall upon it? Now some see this called the gap theory. Does MarkV respect that view? NO! However when we have a GAP in who Cain married, he certainly has his own spectulative views not found in scripture. Should he be given the same RESPECT he fails to give others?

---kathr4453 on 3/16/10


When you call other names and they respond angry at you, you become the enemies instrument by causing others to sin in response to your attacks. All that because you don't like their godly message. You do have that spirit.
---Bobby-1 on 3/16/10

Bobby1 again, YOU are responsible for your own actions...regardless of mine, or how you may see mine. I CAN'T MAKE YOU SIN!! You sin because of the evil in YOUR HEART!
You have called me stupid, my remarks stupid, Jezebel etc. Now who here is calling names? YOU ARE.

But Bobby1 here is my response to you.

I love you, your relationship with Christ, that it is REAL, that you FOLLOW HIM and exalt HIM, not men here on line, not even me.

May God keep you in His truth!
---kathr4453 on 3/16/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Internet Services


Part 2

Bobby1, you know MarkV would say that all the time.your not going to make me sinOr youre trying to make me sin.So let me ask you again and dont lie..are YOU MarkV, is MarkV Bobby 1 and mary?

Secondly, Bobby1, MarkV and mary, all abusers will blame OTHERS for their behavior. Battered wives will always be toldyou made me do itIts YOUR FAULT! Do you see the pattern here? You got me mad and made sin kinda thing going on here.

MarkV said when he got married to a sweet woman who LOVED Jesus, but AFTER their marriage found out she wasnt a Calvinist or believe in the Calvin doctrine, he FOUGHT with her tooth and nail until she submitted to his doctrine. THATS ABUSE!
---kathr4453 on 3/16/10


The salvation of individuals is limited to only those who place their saving faith in Jesus Christ.


---Bobby-1 on 3/15/10

Silly Bobby 1...that's not called limited atonement. Christ's atonement for sin was ONCE and for all Hebrews 10. Just because someone doesn't receive it or believe it, doesn't mean it's not STILL available for them. Limited Atonement according to NEO Calvinist believe it is not even available...it was only meant for a select few! WRONG ANSWER!

I should rephrase a statement...those who claim to be CHRISTAINS living together before teh 60's was unheard of.
---kathr4453 on 3/16/10


Kathr, more dumb words,
"Jesus doesn't ask us to live with him"
"thats unconditional love"
"if it doesn't work Jesus are you can walk away"
"those who avocate that are Jezebels children"
"sounds like Neo Calvinism is very liberal"

After all those dumb comments you mentioned something that's true,
"where have I ever seduced anyone to sin or excuse it?"
Now that, you got right.

When you call other names and they respond angry at you, you become the enemies instrument by causing others to sin in response to your attacks. All that because you don't like their godly message. You do have that spirit.
---Bobby-1 on 3/16/10


Heres another LIMITED Addition Calvinists proclaim. Its OK TO SIN!

1 Cor 5:9
I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

Im totally surprised anyone in their church had fellowship with them. Must have been a LIBERAL Church where anything goes. Sounds like NEO Calvinism is very liberal. OR is it: Rev 2:20
Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

Isnt it interesting how THEY like to twist the REAL truth. Where have I ever seduced anyone to SINor excuse it. Bobby1 your IGNORANCE mis-applies scripture.
---kathr4453 on 3/15/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Online Stores


The IDEA that a couple engaged to marry can live together to see if things work out before making a commitment is worldly thinking, never even heard of before the 60s. Get real.

Jesus doesnt ask us to MOVE in with Him, or He with us to see if its going to work out. Thats CONDITIONAL LOVE!!! And if it doesnt, Jesus or you can walk away, and no one gets hurt? Are these the ones who lose their so called salvation? Those who believe such garbage are not saved. They may think theyve moved in with Jesus, but believe me, He hasnt moved in with you. Nor does He condone such half hearted commitments.

Those who advocate such things ARE Jezebels children.
---kathr4453 on 3/15/10


Kathr, no one but you are saying,
"Sounds like someone is saying Christ work on the cross was limited"
"Maybe someone thinks there weren't enough lambs."
"is someone saying there is only blood of Jesus to go around"
"what you call, Limited Addition" only you can come out with all that trash about Christ.
Your exposition of words did not impress me.
The salvation of individuals is limited to only those who place their saving faith in Jesus Christ.

There once was a king, he was, doing well, until he started messing around with that evil Jezebel, aha, ha. Ever since the world begin aha, ha
---Bobby-1 on 3/15/10


bobby1 stay on track here....

Now concerning LIMITED ATONEMENT. Sounds like someone is saying Christ work on the cross was limited? Its not finished? I know in the OT it was limited, because the blood of bulls and goats could never make anyone perfect, or take away sin, it only covered for 1 year. Now thats limited alright. However even in the OT, no one was EXCLUDED on the day of atonement. Maybe someone thinks there werent enough lambs to go aroundfirst come first serve kinda thing.only a limited amount.

Is someone actually saying there is only enough blood of Jesus to go around?

I dont believe in the LIMITED EDITION of salvation. Who so ever will may NOW COME boldly to the throne of grace to find MERCY!
---kathr4453 on 3/15/10


Kathr, interesting how anyone that does not agree with you are Calvinist or from the "replacement Theology"
When I said a godly man, I was not talking about Shawn T, but I will now. He is a godly man, who wanted to teach you the truth and you threw it back with a curse. You imply that you are the standard by which all Christians should live by.
You do not even recognize your own sin. Living together is not a sin. He never said living together and fornicating was not a sin. You did. You tried to find fault in him by twisting what he said. You take it that everyone living together are sinning, as if you could see their hearts. You are not God. For it is the evil (Jezebel) within you that brings you to that conclusion.
---Bobby-1 on 3/15/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Business Training


Those who COME THROUGH CALVARY, join a company of people in the NT called the Elect, the Elect CHURCH, a body of believers Paul states in Galatians have CRUCIFIED the flesh. Calvin did no such thing. He was a murderer, totally opposite to any of the fruit of the spirit that comes BY crucifying the flesh. Calvin did not preach The power of the Cross, because he never experienced it. Calvinism gives a false sense of security to those basing their election on unmerited favor. There is no such words in Scripture. ABEL found FAVOR in Gods eyes when ABEL obeyed and presented a BLOOD sacrifice. The ONLY favor youll find in Gods EYES is YOUR FAITH in the sacrifice of Christs blood.
---kathr4453 on 3/15/10


Calvinist believe GRACE is getting your name picked out of a hat. GRACE IS CALVARYnot Election. Because I teach the CROSS, and have since Ive been on CN, ALL the Calvinists HATE that womans doctrine, and go out of their way to harass any way they can. They HATE being questioned on any false doctrine. You see Shawns reaction concerning Christians living together and fornicating? He never would say it was wrong. Just used Elijah and the widow as some excuse that living together is okwhatever that has to do with anything I DONT KNOW!

Interestingly Paul said persecution comes to those not only who believe in the Power of the Cross, but preach it as well.

Calvinists climb over or around Calvary. FATAL!!
---kathr4453 on 3/15/10


Kathr, I'm not a Calvinist, but do believe some of their doctrines. I never denied it. That is why I don't condemn the teachings. I have studied much of their work, not enough to argue with you forever since you have no clue what Calvinism is.
Plus, you would be calling me names as you do others with Jezebel holding on to you.
It is not wise for anyone to discuss any doctrines with you. If they disagree you sent them to hell.
Mary has your number, and so do I. No one ever spoke against you before, now you know how others feel when they have to hear what you say about them every single day.
---Bobby-1 on 3/15/10


Kathr, you are a Calvinist and do believe in Limited Atonement. You know that only some are saved and others are not. Isn't that limited? Whether free will or not? It is still limited.

So, there, you got two points on your list now.
You also mentioned that you don't believe a person is born again before they are born again, who believes that? Calvinist believe they are elected from the foundation of the world by God who knows all things, but not born again until the Holy Spirit brings life to them.

Your attacks on others are without cause. You exhibit the Jezebel spirit. That spirit has got you good and it will not let go. Jezebel destroyed a king you want to destroy a godly man with lies. But you have failed.
---Bobby-1 on 3/15/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Software


Bobby1, I thought you said YOU were not a Calvinist! Hummm...are you MarkV also pretending to be mary who HATE that Woman's doctrine???? All your words seem to be exactly the same.

Bobby1, IGNORANCE is why people believe one is a Calvinist who believe in Eternal security.

There are thousands upon thousands who are neither Armenian or Calvin. Look up Abram Cooper!! He can point out the flaws in both!

I know what I believe Bobby1. You and those who's minds are veiled fail to see the truth about the CROSS!!!

If a Calvinist ( Shawn MT..Lee 1538 etc) says it's ok for a Christian woman to get tatooed, after salvation because we are UNDER GRACE, THAT is a perversion of GRACE!!!
---kathr4453 on 3/15/10


Bobby1, No I am not a Calvinist who believes you were Born again before you were Born Again. I do not believe in LIMITED I believe in FREE WILL, and WHOSOEVER WILL.

Therefore I AM NOT a Calvinist. I believe those who are CRUCIFIED with Christ ( something Calvin didn't teach IS our standing in GRACE, and what GRACE IS. I believe in the OT sin was covered, by IN CHRIST it was put away, according to Colossians 2, Romans 6. .

I believe Jesus is SURETY of the New Covenant for those who entered in through the veil, that is to say HIS Flesh, crucified with Christ, and that Christ is the anchor to the soul of those who have.
---kathr4453 on 3/15/10


Kathr, you condemn Calvin, and you believe in the assurance of the saints, it is Calvinist teaching. How much of a Calvinist are you? you condemn what you believe. Take the veil off your eyes so you can see that you are a genuine Calvinist, maybe not a 5 point one, but a Calvinist. The teachings concerning OSAS come from the understanding that God saves, man does not save himself with his free will, and since God saves, no one can be lost, for He sustains us or makes us stand. You really need God to change your heart.
---Bobby-1 on 3/14/10


Shawn MT GROW UP. My first reply to you that didn't get posted was...You asked " who was the false teacher? My answer Matthew Henry!

YOU are the one who implied who ever said that was a false teacher. I simply pointed out to you Shawn that Matthew Henry was a Calvinist. You like Calvin's teaching...but you object to Matthew Henry's comment on Elijah and the widow?

Shawn your choo choo had jumped the track these past couple weeks. WHY are you so argumentative?
---kathr4453 on 3/13/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Advertising


-- Kathr :

the false teacher is Matthew Henry ... Henry was a Calvinists too --Kathr on 3/12/10

Sister, So the Truth is finally revealed. Luke 12:2 ~ Kathr4453 is a "Calvinist" or at least she spreads what she claim are the actual teachings of a Calvinist !!!!!!

... and it you Kathr who are going to retract your insults to his teachings or to all of us 'Bloggers', if his teachings that you're spread on this thread really are false, as you claimed ????

No matter which RETRACTION you make, For Shame on you Kathr4453 .. For Shame.... for knowingly Bearing False Witness or for Insulting a man b/c he's a Calvinist , you choose, but whatever your choice, For Shame....
---Shawn.M.T on 3/12/10


peter and Shawn--- People do not "boarder" together.
If you "board" with someone, you pay a monthly or weekly fee for a room and a specific number of meals. Even until the last century, it was a common way for a widow to support herself and was perfectly respectable.

In the 1800's and early 1900's a widow might be left with no means of support but a large family home. So she opened a "Boarding House". It was a business! I'm not sure what kind of dwelling the widow had, who took in the prophet, but there is no reason to think that anyone considered it improper.
---Donna66 on 3/12/10


-- Kathr :

Sister, So what false teaches of yours were you trying to back-up & spread when you claimed that, Widow's often took in borders. --Kathr on 3/11/10


---Shawn.M.T on 3/12/10

Actually the false teacher is Matthew Henry. So I guess you are calling him names too?

Shame on you Shawn MT.
---kathr4456 on 3/12/10


Shawn MT Part 2:

AND Matthew Henry was a Calvinists too! So would you like to retract your insults to him?
---kathr4453 on 3/12/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Eating Disorders


-- Kathr :

Sister, So what false teaches of yours were you trying to back-up & spread when you claimed that, Widow's often took in borders. --Kathr on 3/11/10

As if only certain individual can border together without giving the appearance of evil : Hmmm... Can you imagine ??

--- Peter3594 :

It is certainly better not to, but then, sin can occur even if they (you) are not living together. But living together generally leads to greater temptation, so better not. Also - different people have different levels of temptation/resistance for sex, but almost all of us believe we have greater resistance to sin than we actually do! Be careful --Peter on 3/12/10

Brother, Amen ~ Well shared !!
---Shawn.M.T on 3/12/10


In regards to Elijah staying at the Widow's house! Scripture out of context is scripture in error! Please study those verses in the context of what God was truly saying, please don't use them to back up the false teachings your trying to spread!
---Stanps23 on 3/11/10

I totally agree Stanps23. Can you imagine? That's exactly how I felt when I first heard it.
---kathr4453 on 3/12/10


Back again.... well, it is certainly better not to, but then, sin can occur even if they (you) are not living together. But living together generally leads to greater temptation, so better not. Also - different people have different levels of temptation/resistance for sex, but almost all of us beleive we have greater resistance to sin than we actually do! Be careful
---peter3594 on 3/12/10


Kris--- Believe me, please. Separate beds are not a safeguard against anything. Furthermore no one will believe you are not sleeping together if you live together! They won't believe it, because they know human nature and the power of sexuality.
---Donna66 on 3/11/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Travel Packages


well, i know i not married, if 2 unmarried people live together, they should have separate beds, when married, they can sleep together.
---Kris on 3/11/10


In regards to Elijah staying at the Widow's house! Scripture out of context is scripture in error! Please study those verses in the context of what God was truly saying, please don't use them to back up the false teachings your trying to spread!
---Stanps23 on 3/11/10


-- Kathr :

PLEASE don't use Elijah being sent to a widow ... Widow's often took in borders. --Kathr

Sister, O' now only certain individual can border together without giving the appearance of evil : Hmmm....

You believe the appearance of evil is YOUR PRESUMED POSSIBILITY of them having sexual relations, but that can be presumed whether they're living together or not.

So, If your going to PRESUME that couples living together give the appearance of evil, then you also have to presume couples NOT LIVING TOGETHER give the some appearance : which would mean that giving the appearance of being a couple or even as getting married is not abstaining from all appearance of evil. ... How silly are you Kathr !!!
---Shawn.M.T on 3/11/10


Peter3594. Can you give any examples of a couple planning to marry living together in scripture first. PLEASE don't use Elijah being sent by God to go to a widow woman's house so she could sustain him with food while he was doing God's work. There was no plans to marry.

Widow's often took in borders.

Paul instructs in these matters to MARRY. I don't see anywhere anyone is instructed to live together. WE are to abstain from ALL appearances of evil.
---kathr4453 on 3/11/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Credit Repair


Betty, can you give me an actualy definition of fornication? What is a man and a woman, because they cannot each rent a separate place to live, share an apartment, with each hiving his/her room? Is that fornication as well?
---peter3594 on 3/11/10


Yes, it is. It is fornication.
---Betty on 3/10/10


Here I will (mostly) go with Sag, in his comment that it is (I would add 'probably') OK if there is no fornication. Lawrence takes it that living together means sex, but I do not think it AUTOMATICALLY means that. But it IS more dangerous than living separately. If you want to know each other better in everyday things, maybe better spend the day together in the house, but go home to separate houses to sleep, to avoid temptation.
---peter5394 on 3/9/10


KarenD:

Your reply reminded me of a time when I was witnessing in a bar.

One guy told me that "he planned to go to church that Sunday and repent for his being drunk". My response was rather bad, because I laughed. Some people come up with the "strangest" excuses for their sins. Yes, I have talked to many people who think similarly about the sin of living together.

Anyway, once I had regained my composure, I told the drunken guy that God doesn't like people just "using him" as an excuse for sinning. The guy began yelling at me and I left the bar.

Telling people the TRUTH really seems to hurt sometimes. But the Bible says to do so. Mark 16:15
---Sag on 3/4/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Products


Mod, when I came to Christ I believed it was ok to live together because I figured you needed to know someone before you married him this way you would not make a mistake, but even when you do live together and get married later, nothing is guaranteed. Now after a few years, and much studying, my view changed. When two come together you become one. And will always be one. We need to be in the will of God always and He will provide all that we need.
---mary on 3/4/10


This is like asking if you are planning to repent, is it alright to kill someone. Do you want to be sleeping with someone to whom you are not married when Jesus comes back for HIS church?
---KarenD on 3/3/10


Bible is plain about not giving even the appearence of evil,its sin,1 Thessalonians 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. Plans often don't happen the way planned. The Spirit is willing but the flesh is weak,Matthew 26:41 Watch and pray,that you enter not into temptation:the Spirit indeed is willing but the flesh is weak. People are tempted when led astray by their own lusts,James 1:14 But every man is tempted,when he is drawn away of his own lust,and enticed. James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superflurity(something unneccessary) of naughiness(lacking in taste or propriety),and receive with meekness the engrafted word,which is able to save your souls. Propriety is comformty in what is socially acceptable in conduct or speech.
---Darlene_1 on 3/3/10


Paul cautions:
1Cr 7:2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own WIFE, and let every woman have her own HUSBAND.
If you are unmarried and having sex, it's fornication.

When the Samaritan woman came alone to the well in the heat of the day, Jesus knew why. He could have revealed to her ANY fact about her life. But he chose to point out (Jhn 4:18).".. thou hast had five husbands, and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband". He wasn't unkind, but it seemed most important to Him. And it was probably the reason she had to come to the well alone at noon, instead of the cooler hours with the other women. They knew her life-style was wrong.
---Donna66 on 3/2/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Divorce


Moderator:

I think that you already know the answer:

Living together before marriage isn't wrong IF both the man, and the woman, can ABSTAIN 100% from fornication. That includes even just THINKING about fornication.

Living Together is "tempting yourself", or "setting yourself up", for the sin of forniation. Why? People are just human beings and the flesh is weak. Especially, in a tempting environment like Living Together.

Because Living Together is "setting yourself up for sin", I would conclude that any Living Together IS, and of itself, SIN.
---Sag on 3/2/10


Yes it IS a sin. This means your committing fornication(sex when not being married.)
People of the world & Most of the lose worldly christian churches, anything goes. One thing Is for sure, you'l reap what you sow.
---Lawrence on 3/2/10


YES! If you are both saved. My husband & I weren't saved before our marriage, & yes we lived together for 2 months prior to our "I do's". Now that we both have our daily walk in Christ, if you are saved, & know better, it is not recomended to go against God.
---candice on 3/2/10


Copyright© 1996-2015 ChristiaNet®. All Rights Reserved.