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Is Judah's Time Over

Some believe Israel and Judah's time is over. Can anyone show prophets stating this? Or the New Testament?

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 ---Trav on 3/3/10
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The futurist concept of the 70th week being cut off until the time of the end was invented in the 16th century by a Jesuit, Francisco Ribera, to to counter protestant claims that the Pope was the Antichrist. Google it.
---jerry6593 on 3/20/10

Should have read more Jerry.

Irenaues wrote about Daniel's seventieth week being fulfilled during the time of the AntiChrist way back in 125 A.D. (Against Heresies Book V, Chapter 25). Google that.

This is not NEW teaching. It is forgotten teaching. The apostles knew it, they taught the church fathers. And because of false teaching afterwards, it was forgotten for centuries.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/21/10


//The 70 week are broken down into 62 and 7 with one left, and I'm sure you know were it belong.

And such has become the plight of those who have attempted to be able to predict the second coming of Jesus. They refuse to acknowledge that they were wrong by inventing silly views that Christ came invisibly (1887, 1914)or that He entered into the heavenly sanctuary (October 1844) - something totally unverifiable.

They in their foolishness boast of their great knowledge of the scripture but in reality fail to understand that God is not governed by any system of mathematical thinking.

He will come when He decided to and that is much dependent upon that time when mankind reaches the point of total depravity.
---Lee1538 on 3/21/10


jerry6593
But the Pope is a Antichrist and most of the false believes are based upon the RCC. Like Easter, Christmas, worshiping on Sunday, so-on. The 70 week are broken down into 62 and 7 with one left, and I'm sure you know were it belong. I am sure you can explain all of that with the help of the HOLY SPIRIT, or is the veil upon you?
PEACE
---Ed on 3/21/10


The futurist concept of the 70th week being cut off until the time of the end was invented in the 16th century by a Jesuit, Francisco Ribera, to to counter protestant claims that the Pope was the Antichrist. Google it.
---jerry6593 on 3/20/10


There is more then one way the 70 weeks are numbered. Two of the most common have a major difference. One used by the premillinelist have JESUS dying on the last day of the 69 weeks. It took me awhile to find this since most do not tell you how they came up with this intrict math of multiplication and dates to get it.

The other simplier method just counts 69 and 1/2 weeks from the start date and ends up with the crucificaiton on a different day.

Both start with a different start date. How many here know their sysytem they use and how they got it? If you do then explain and justify your choice.
---Samuel on 3/19/10




This is my last post of this subject.

We do not agree, i believe that the 70 years are all up, and that God is through with Judah and israel as a nation.

Jesus last words to israel were: Luke 13:35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until [the time] come when ye shall say, Blessed [is] he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Pauls words to them were:
Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.


We disagree, but will not be disagreeable.
---francis on 3/19/10


We disagree.

the prince that shall come and destroy did it in 70 AD. The orders came from the prince tro destroy

he shall make a covenant with many refers to the new Covenant made by Jesus.

Mark 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with [them], and confirming the word with signs following.

Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Hebrews 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard [him],

It started with Jesus for 3.5 years, then by his disciples for another 3.5 years
---francis on 3/18/10


Francis:

The A of D has to be performed or have been perfomed by an actual person. That person is "the prince who is to come" in Daniel 9:26. BTW, his people destroy the city of Jerusalem and temple, not him.

He will make a firm covenant with the many for one week and the "many" here refer back to the subject of the prophesy, Daniel's people or the Jews. The Prince will make a covenant with the Jews for a 7 year period and in the middle of the covenant, end the sacrifices. Following that, the A of D is set up.

We have yet to see this firm covenant or agreement made with the Jews and broken in the middle since before the time of Jesus.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/18/10


O.K.
Now i understand what you are talking about.
The expected kingdom.
I am not sure that the expected messianic kingdom is to come after 70 weeks.

how did you arive at that conclusion?
was is only based on daniels prophecy of the statues or the four beasts?
---francis on 3/18/10


what i want to know is how does the abomination of desolation prove that the 70 weeks are not up yet.
---francis on 3/18/10




TWO POSTS REQUIRED, PLEASE

Francis:

Let's review this from the beginning.

Daniel sees the future "kingdoms" of the world several times. Two are significant, the great statue and the four beasts. Both end with the messianic kingdom being set up.

Daniel 9 starts with Daniel reading about the captivity being 70 years coming to an end. He prays for the future of his nation and people. Gabriel comes with the answer.

Gabriel says "Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place"
---Mark_Eaton on 3/18/10


SECOND POST

If we break down the prophesy, we see that Jesus death and resurrection fulfilled all but the last element, to seal up vision and prophecy. Vision and prophesy was not sealed up until John wrote the Revelation of Jesus around 90 A.D.

But still, without a break in the seventy weeks, there is a problem. The messianic kingdom has not come in and with it, the final judgment of the world. It should have happened right after the end of the seventy weeks, but it did not. This is a clue that something is missing.

Jesus tells us in Luke what will happen at the end and includes the "times of the Gentiles". This is the missing element.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/18/10


Antiochus Epiphanes could not possibly be the A of D since he lived hundreds of years before the incarnation of Christ, and Jesus spoke of the A of D as being in the future. The army of Rome led by Titus, surrounding Jerusalem in 70 AD was the A of D.
---jerry6593 on 3/18/10


Lets say for a monent that you are right.
This still does not give us any reason to believe that the 70 years are not up yet.

Nothng in any of the text which you post say that one week is left.

If we follow the sequence of events in daniel, the A that makes D comes after 70 weeks are over, not in the midst of it.

There is no bibilcal proof, pattern, or history, of interupted prophetic time.

SO we must conclude that the time for Judah as a nation is over.
---francis on 3/17/10


But, there was an event mentioned in the bible that caused the land of israel and the sanctuary to be desolate, that what daniel is referring to.
---francis on 3/16/10

You have focused so much on the word desolate that you have forgotten the first word of the phrase, abomination.

Surely God did punish Israel with captivity in Babylon for not keeping the Sabbaths, and your 2 Chronicles reference ties to Luke 21 when Jesus says they are "days of vengence", but none of your passages discuss an abomination in the eyes of God.

When I look at the word abomination in the Bible, the number sin that is called an abomination before God is idolatry. This is the truth of the A of D. Idolatry is at its core.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/17/10


The Book of Maccabees may not be in the canon of the Bible but it is viewed as historically accurate and can be used as a historical reference. It does show Antiochus Epiphanes making the same act as the true A of D will do. Antiochus sacrificed a pig to Zeus on an altar within the Holy of Holies.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/16/10

Here is the thing: I accept all the above as true, and yet none of the events mentioned above have ever caused israel or the Sanctuary to be desolate.

If these events in the past did not make israel and the sanctuary desolate, why would they in the future?

But, there was an event mentioned in the bible that caused the land of israel and the sanctuary to be desolate, that what daniel is referring to.
---francis on 3/16/10


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Francis:

Your last post is correct.

The A of D is the act of the one who stands in the Holy of Holies and declares himself god above all other gods, including the God of Gods.

The conquering of Jerusalem in 70 A.D is not the A of D referred to by Jesus and Daniel.

The Book of Maccabees may not be in the canon of the Bible but it is viewed as historically accurate and can be used as a historical reference. It does show Antiochus Epiphanes making the same act as the true A of D will do. Antiochus sacrificed a pig to Zeus on an altar within the Holy of Holies.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/16/10


Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily [sacrifice], and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Daniel 12:11 And from the time [that] the daily [sacrifice] shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, [there shall be] a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
---francis on 3/16/10


The phrase in Daniel is not "abomination of desolation"

It is abomination that maketh desolate.

Daniel 11:31.. abomination that maketh desolate.
Daniel 12:11 ..the abomination that maketh desolate

That is a specific abomination(s) that has, and will cause israel and the sanctuary to be desolate.

The killing of a pig in the sanctuary and spilling it's blood all over the sanctuary did not make the sanctuary, or the nation of Israel desolate.

At the time Daniel was writing, israel and the sanctuary were both desolate.

Daniel 9:17.. cause thy face to shine upon thy sanctuary that is desolate, for the Lord's sake.


What abomination does the bible say caused this desolation?
---francis on 3/16/10


there have been many many incidents of blood " spilled" in the sanctuary that should not have been. See Luke 13, see the killing of Solomons brother.

And most important Maccabees in not in the bible.

the only thing that comtaminates the sanctuary is the sins of men.

Leviticus 16:16 And he shall make an atonement for the holy [place], because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions in all their sins: and so shall he do for the tabernacle of the congregation, that remaineth among them in the midst of their uncleanness.
---francis on 3/16/10


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2 Chronicles 36:21
Ezekiel 20
Nehemiah 13:18
---francis on 3/15/10

No, No, No.

The answer to the A of D is contained in Daniel. Jesus knew this, so should you. Why would Jesus point you to Daniel if the answers were in the passages you list? You point to everything except what Jesus did.

The description of the A of D is contained in Daniel 11:36-38 and in Daniel 8:10-12. It is referred to again in Daniel 9:27.

1 Macc 1:40-54 shows what exactly will happen.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/15/10


ABOMINATION of DESOLATION is found in Matthew 24 and refers the reader to Daniel.
Matthew 24:3-17 and Luke 21: 7-23 tell the exact same story.

In daniel there is no " abomination of desolation" the phrase in daniel is "abomination that maketh desolate"

Look at daniel 11:31 and compare with Luke 21: 20 and you will see that they are the same doctrine.

What exactly is this abomination that made israel desolte both in the land and the sanctuiary?

The answetr is found no less than three times in the bible:

2 Chronicles 36:21
Ezekiel 20
Nehemiah 13:18
---francis on 3/15/10


jerry6593
So be it. I have not the time or inclination to elaborate on it or try and justify it with the word at the moment. I will tell you this, you will not find many if any theologians who understand this, a few minister maybe.Be warned that the abomination that make desolate is moving into place now, what you do with that is up to you. Peace Unto You and may the Light Of The Lamb Guide Your Way.
---Ed on 3/14/10


Ed: Sorry, but I couldn't see how your explanation defined the "cleansing of the sanctuary" or the 2300 day prophecy which defines its time of fulfillment.
---jerry6593 on 3/14/10


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jerry6593
In response to your question I am going to give you MY PERSONAL understanding of this.
When Yeshua (Jesus) died for our sins, all who believe in him, and confess his name , that keep the commandments, and repents of sin, he shall confess them unto the Father. To enter Heaven our sins must be Blotted out , or cleansed from the Heavenly Sanctuary. Those who are blotted out of the book of Life will have there judgement set for the second death.
when this starts Satan will be casted out of heaven for ever. He does walk the earth for a short time and that time is now. There are a lot of scriptures to support this, if you need to know them then look them up on the net and your Bible. Peace unto you.
---Ed on 3/13/10


I'll try again.

Ed: What do you think "the cleansing of the sanctuary" means?
---jerry6593 on 3/13/10


Francis, that is good then you have knowledge of the last week in the final days.

When the last trump will blow, and the last atonement will happen. the marriage with the Lamb, and the last great day.

The Heavenly sanctuary will be cleansed and Satan with his followers will be cast out of Heaven forever. This happens before the last trumpet, and has already happened!

The Abomination That Makes Desolate standing where it should not, and the revealing of the price of this earth is now moving into place.

Peace
---Ed on 3/12/10


ED, I think I understand what you are saying.

In my view the cleansing of the sanctuary is something done by God on the typical and antitypical Day of Atonement.

Leviticus 16:19 And he shall sprinkle of the blood upon it with his finger seven times, and cleanse it, and hallow it from the uncleanness of the children of Israel.

Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building,

Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption [for us].
---francis on 3/12/10


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francis
Daniel 9:17 Now therefore, O our God, hear the prayer of thy servant, and his supplications, and cause thy face to shine upon thy sanctuary that is desolate, for the Lord's sake.

This is referring to the Sanctuary in the middle of Daniels time, and not the Abomination that make Desolate. Also the sanctuary I am referring to is not of this world.

However if you study this time in the bible well you will find that the reason they had lost favor was the scarifice to another God in the Temple alter, or an Abomindation unto El Shaddai, which he made Desolate because of it.
Peace.
---Ed on 3/12/10


Israel - symbolized as woman - earthly rep. of God's kingdom in old testament
God stopped using Israel bec. of her unfaithfulness.
Mark 13:8 the Fig tree is symbolized Israel.
When the fig tree (Israel) become nation the summer (end) is near.

Matthew 21:19 Fig tree was cursed by God. Meaning God stop using Israel to Spread God's word (Never bear fruit again)
---rosalie on 3/12/10

Judah is the part of Israel you are referring too here. And should be defined. Judah only makes up 1/12th of Israel.
GOD has not stopped using Israel as a whole...or Judah. Jeremiah 31:1
At the same time, saith the LORD, will I be the God of all the families of Israel, and they shall be my people.
---Trav on 3/12/10


FROM ED:
What happened to 2300 years till the cleaning of the sanctuary begins?

Started already see hebrews where Christ has entered into the heavenly sanctuary.

From ED,
The abomination that make desolate has always been a sacrifice against the most HIGH. The last time this was done was during the Maccabees revolt that started over them refusing to sacrifice a swine on the holy alter.


There are at least three references to events (abomination) that has made Israel desolate, none have to do with sacrificing swine.

Daniel 9:17 Now therefore, O our God, hear the prayer of thy servant, and his supplications, and cause thy face to shine upon thy sanctuary that is desolate, for the Lord's sake.
---francis on 3/12/10


Israel - symbolized as woman - earthly rep. of God's kingdom in old testament
Church - symbolized as woman - earthly rep. of God's kingdom in New testament

Both are used by God is sending forth Gospel. God stopped using Israel bec. of her unfaithfulness. Same faith will happened to Church.

Mark 13:8 the Fig tree is symbolized Israel.
When the fig tree (Israel) become nation the summer (end) is near.

Matthew 21:19 Fig tree was cursed by God. Meaning God stop using Israel to Spread God's word (Never bear fruit again)
---rosalie on 3/12/10


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Ed: What do you think "the cleansing of the sanctuary" means?
---jerry6593 on 3/12/10


All in all 70 week were over years ago.
---francis
What happened to 2300 years till the cleaning of the sanctuary begins?
The abomination that make desolate has always been a sacrifice against the most HIGH. The last time this was done was during the Maccabees revolt that started over them refusing to sacrifice a swine on the holy alter.

Don't worry the Abomination That Makes Desolate is moving into place now, so you will get to see it in your life time.
Peace unto you.
---Ed on 3/11/10


Nice post by Mark Eaton and a succinct answer of NO by Steven G.

God will bring Israel back to him in his own way and time.

How can Israel's time be over if He will rule from Jerusalem?

Mark or anyone isn't the 144,000 and their powerful witness decendents of the 12 tribes or am I missing something?

If Iran tries anything foolish we may see an answer to that question real soon.
---larry on 3/11/10


Those who are Jewish can still be saved. But they must be saved through JESUS.
---Samuel on 3/11/10


Amen Samuel. All who believe with there heart and confess JESUS (Yeshua)are saved. This is the path that we all must take, become as children and study the word for the milk, then as we keep listing to the Holy Spirit and grow we can start understanding the meat of the scriptures. The parable of the sower make this very point, and many miss the fact that the thorns are choking the true word from them , and they have lost there salvation.
Peace unto you.
---Ed on 3/11/10


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Francis:

We are never going to meet on this.

Good luck to you.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/11/10


MARK Eatom

I am 100% on, your text does not include abomination or desolation which is what you asked in the first place.

My texts from luke and daniel could be mirror images both speak about the A of D and both speak about the Armies involved.

And there is nothing in any of those text which indicate that the 70th week is yet to come which is what we were talking about.
---francis on 3/11/10


Francis:

You were so close, but yet you missed it.

Daniel 11:36 "Then the king will do as he pleases, and he will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will speak monstrous things against the God of gods, and he will prosper until the indignation is finished, for that which is decreed will be done"

and in the NT:

2 Thes 2:3-4 "Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God"

THIS is the A of D
---Mark_Eaton on 3/11/10


Those who are Jewish can still be saved. But they must be saved through JESUS.
---Samuel on 3/11/10


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"Abomination of desolation" does not appear in Daniel. This is what apears in the KJV:

Daniel 11:31 And ARMS shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily [sacrifice], and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Luke and Matthew tell the same story,
Luke's words are closer to daniel's:

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with ARMIES, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

And this started in 70 AD proving again that there is no break in the 70 week prophecy.
---francis on 3/11/10


Francis:

After the three posts, you still did not answer the essence of my question.

In all that, when did the Abomination of Desolation occur?

I answered: it was in 70 AD that the armies sorounded jerusalem.

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.


This STARTED in 70 AD
---francis on 3/11/10


Acts 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men [and] brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
---MIchael on 3/10/10


Lee1538
I am amazed of your lack of understanding of the scriptural truth. 2 Cor.4:4

we should start with 3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded,

Did you throw a stone and do the same with Romans 7:6 by leaving out 7:7-12.??


Things to come in Ezekiel 34:29 I will raise up for them a garden of renown, and they shall no longer be consumed with hunger in the land, nor bear the shame of the Gentiles anymore. 30 Thus they shall know that I, the LORD their God, am with them, and they, the house of Israel, are My people, says the Lord GOD.
31 You are My flock, the flock of My pasture, you are men, and I am your God, says the Lord GOD
---Ed on 3/10/10


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Lee1538
the goal of Judaizers (do read Romans 7:6)
.

and 7:7-12
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, You shall not covet.[a] 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.
---Ed on 3/10/10


Israelites and Judah are still the apple in God's eye - and that is forever.

The original twelve apostles were not mentioned anymore midway through Acts. Why is this so? Because it is written that they were to preach, not to the gentiles, but to the lost tribes of Israel.
---Steveng on 3/10/10


Francis:

After the three posts, you still did not answer the essence of my question.

In all that, when did the Abomination of Desolation occur?

When did someone stand in the Holy of Holies and declare himself God?
---Mark_Eaton on 3/10/10


frances //HUH? How much did these gentiles really know about the Law of God? Aparantly not enough, so they had to be taught.

Did Gentile believers need to be taught the law?

NO! they already knew moral law (romans 2:14)-

Gal. 3:1,3 O foolish Galatians! ... Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

And clearly the goal of Judaizers was to draw the believer away from living in the newness of the Spirit back into the old written code of the law. (do read Romans 7:6)

I am amazed of your lack of understanding of the scriptural truth. 2 Cor.4:4
---Lee1538 on 3/10/10


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To---Mark_Eaton, please let me tell you how much I admire your attitude for argumentation for what you and I both know to be the truth. I must say that you're made of stronger stuff than me. I believe one of my major faults and shortcomings is my lack of patience with others.
---mima on 3/10/10


ALLOW ME THREE POST TO RESPOND PLEASE?

Daniel 9:25 Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks:

So the messiah comes in the 69th week.
62 and 7.

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:

SO THE MESSAIEH WILL BE KILLED AFTER 69 weeks. That would be in the 70th weeks.

Daniel 9:26 and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary,

Let me use Luke's version of matthew 24:15 here:
Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

This happened in 70 AD.
---francis on 3/10/10


Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,

Jesus did confirm the new covenant with many for one week. And in the midst of the week, 31/2 years into his ministery he was cut off or killed, and His death caused all sanctuary sacrifices to stop.

the veil was torn so no sacrifices were valid after his death. Only Jesus blood couned after his death.

Mark 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with [them], and confirming the word with signs following.

Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
---francis on 3/10/10


It started with Jesus for 3.5 years, then by his disciples for another 3.5 years until the stonning of stephen

Hebrews 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard [him],

There is no time break.
70 weeks ended at stonning of stephen.

7 weeks for temple/ streets to be rebuilt
62 weeks later messiah comes
70th week Jesus confirms the covenant with Jews, dies in the middle of the week, covanent continues with disciples for 3.5 years to jews, then to all men after the stonning of stephen.

70 AD prince destroys the temple Daniel 9:26 Luke 21:20 Matthew 24:15

No time breaks at all.
---francis on 3/10/10


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but no time seperates the 70 weeks
---francis on 3/10/10

Please explain the words of Jesus if there was not a separation in the 70 weeks:

Matt 24:15-16 "Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (whoever reads, let him understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains."

Daniel 9 says there will be 7 and 62 weeks before the Messiah is cut off, leaving only one week remaining for the A of D to occur. If there was no breaks in the 70 weeks, then the A of D must occur between 33 A.D. and 40 A.D.

Did the A of D occur between 33-40 A.D.?
---Mark_Eaton on 3/10/10


There is very strong OT evidence that the 1st and 2nd coming would be seperated by time. The best evidenc efound in psalms 22, and isaiah 53 indicating that His 1st coming wold end in death, burial, and resurrection. Be it three days or 3000 we know from OT that the first and second coming would be seperated by time.

As to the time of the gentiles: OT is filled with references to large number of gentiles coming into covenant with God.

Malachi 1:11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles, .. for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts.

but no time seperates the 70 weeks
---francis on 3/10/10


Or any time based prophecy that has a seperation of time such as you mentioned?
---francis on 3/9/10

How about the first and second appearing of Jesus? Seems to me that the OT gave no indications it would be separated by 2000 years.

Luke 21:24 "and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled"

Jesus himself is telling His disciples that there is this "time of the Gentiles" that is never discussed in the OT.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/9/10


All in all 70 week were over years ago.
---francis on 3/8/10

Why then did Jesus refer to the Abomination if Desolation in the FUTURE?

Jesus said in Matt 24, when you see the A of D spoken of by Daniel the prophet. It had not occured YET in Jesus day. Daniel lived in 550 BC so it had been 600 years already by then. The weeks did not happen all at the same time.

Jesus knew about the time gap in the 70 weeks, why don't you believe Him?
---Mark_Eaton on 3/9/10


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//So If you can please post some texts that says this 70 weeks would be divided in to 69 weeks, followed by 2000+ years than would come the 70th week.

Some believe they can interpret Daniel have actually predicted that Christ would return in October 1844 by some mathematical formula dealing with weeks to years convolution.

They ignored the scripture that states no man knows the hour or day of His return.

And since Ellen White & company refused to admit nothing happened in 1844, 2 prominent followers while walking across a cow pasture concocted the view Jesus went into the heavenly sanctuary to begin judgment of beleivers.

Perhaps they stepped into some cow dung and were overcome by the smell.
---Lee1538 on 3/9/10


Yes, the time of God's favor upon the Jewish people ended with the Crucifixion. However, Romans 11 tells us that "a partial hardening has come upon Israel, UNTIL the fullness of the Gentiles has come in". (11:25).

And when the fullness of the Gentiles is acquired - the number of people among the Gentiles that are to inherit the promise given to Abraham (Gal. 3:29)- then the Jewish people will be re-instated.

(11:23) And even they (the Jews), if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again.
---Lee1538 on 3/9/10


Lack of knowledge? No, it's how scripture is interpreted. Is it literal or metaphorical in some passages? It doesn't matter which "system" of eschatology one uses, some verses become literal and some figurative, depending on the system. Lack of knowledge is lack of believing dispensationalism
.
BTW, "rightly dividing" is basically codes words for dispensationalism. If one "rightly divides," they'll believe the way I believe, unquote.

I am coming to the conclusion that the "Hebrews" as God's specific chosen people are over. Any and all people can now be "grafted" into being God's people, Jew or Gentile, by Jesus Christ.
---Rod4Him on 3/9/10


As I follow this discussion I am not surprised by Elder's knowledge. But I am surprised by the lack of knowledge that others display.
---mima on 3/9/10

I am not suprised by Elders knowledge. I am suprised that he has not yet posted any texts that shows a vast seperation between the 69th year and trhe 70th year.

Even more suprising to me is that he has not yet posted examples of text where times based prophecies are seperated by several years.

That would impress me. Everyone has knowledge, but right knowledge is what i
want.
---francis on 3/9/10


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Anybody that studies the Bible rightly divided or watches the news or reads a newspaper can see what is going on in the middle east. It is in the news everyday and has been for years. If you know how to study, what's going on there, has been prophesied
---michael_e on 3/9/10


As I follow this discussion I am not surprised by Elder's knowledge. But I am surprised by the lack of knowledge that others display.
---mima on 3/9/10


If I was going to teach someone that the last week was broeken up by several years. I would need some text that says that.

If not i would need some examples of other time based prophecies that were seperated by several years. I would be looking for some pattern to show that this is not unusual.

So If you can please post some texts that says this 70 weeks would be divided in to 69 weeks, followed by 2000+ years than would come the 70th week.

Or, print some text that show a pattern of time based prophecies being broken up in that manner.

---francis on 3/9/10


The Church the Body of Christ is the 2000 interruption Rom. 16:25, kept secret, never prophesied as was Acts 3:21. It has a lot to do with 2 Tim 2:15 "Rightly dividing the word of truth"
---michael_e on 3/9/10


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"---Elder can you show any text that says that the 70 weeks will be broken by more than 2000 years?
Or any time based prophecy that has a seperation of time such as you mentioned?"
---francis on 3/9/10
Yes! Sometimes ya just gotta study the Word to get the full truth. Now if you want me to post everything that you need to see that only the 69th has been completed I won't even begin to take the time to do that. I can do some of that in pen pal mail.
---Elder on 3/9/10


---Elder can you show any text that says that the 70 weeks will be broken by more than 2000 years?

Or any time based prophecy that has a seperation of time such as you mentioned?
---francis on 3/9/10


Frances, no doubt you know something about prophecy. If you didn't you couldn't begin to post on this blog. What you don't realize is the fact that only 69 weeks have been fulfilled. There is one week left. The complete fulfilling of the 70 weeks are still future events. The beginning of that last week will take place after The Bride/Church is taken out. There is an evil satanic ruler coming, Rev 6:1. This will occur after the breaking of the first seal. That rider on the white horse is Satan. He will rule during part of the 70th week. This will be the "Age of Endurence" which Tribulation Saints will go through, Matt 24.
Those who have "eyes to see" can see the stage being set for this coming week even as we post.
---Elder on 3/8/10


Frances you must not know anything about the Prophecy of the dry bones, the Buding of the fig tree, the cutting off of Messiah, ---Elder on 3/6/10

Prophecy of dry bones given to Eziekel when israel was in captivity. referring to them coming out of captivity and being a nation again. This has already happened. See EZRA and NEHEMIAH.

Messiah was cut of 3 1/2 years into the ministry to israel, the next 3 1/2 was done by the apostles ( Hebrews 2)

All prophecies concerning returning of israel as a nation referrs to the babylonian captivity



All in all 70 week were over years ago.
---francis on 3/8/10


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Frances you must not know anything about the Prophecy of the dry bones, the Buding of the fig tree, the cutting off of Messiah, the promise that no man would know the date or time of Christ return and a whole lot of other things. Do some Bible study yourself and stop letting those who know nothing feed you.
---Elder on 3/6/10


Francis is correct. The 70-week (490 year) prophecy of Daniel pinpoints not only the length of time remaining for literal Israel as God's chosen people, but the exact date. Beginning at Artaxerxes command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem (Dan 9:25) in 457 BC and adding 69 weeks = 483 years, until Jesus began his ministry (the baptism by John) gives a date in the autumn of AD 27. Three and a half years later (middle of 70th week), He was crucified and caused the sacrifice and the oblation to cease (v. 27). At the end of the 70th week, at the stoning of Stephen, the Jews were no longer the oracles of God's Word, and were cut off. (The Hebrew word for "determined" in v. 24 is better translated as "cut off.")
---jerry6593 on 3/6/10


In other words there is one more week to go, a week of years being seven years. This is where people understand the tribulation period will last for seven years.
---mima on 3/4/10

There is not one verse that says that the 70 weeks wold be broken up into 69 and then 2000 years or more later the 70th week would come.

That is just some bad preaching.

WHen God said 70 weeks, he meant 70 week strait not 69 plus 1

or show me any singly time dated prophecy that has ever been seperated some time here and years later the time continues

70 weeks were up at the stoning of stephen.
the final rejection of God by israel AS A NATION

ANd there is not one verse that sasy 7 years of tribulation either
---francis on 3/4/10


--francis you wrote"YEP it is over for them as a nation." But you fail to realize or have knowledge of the fact that only 69 weeks of years have been completed. In other words there is one more week to go, a week of years being seven years. This is where people understand the tribulation period will last for seven years.
---mima on 3/4/10


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Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Luke 13:35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until [the time] come when ye shall say, Blessed [is] he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Romans 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

YEP it is over for them as a nation.
---francis on 3/4/10


Matthew 22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."
Are those few a Nation of lost sheep?

And it shall be, if thou do at all forget the LORD thy God, and walk after other gods, and serve them, and worship them, I testify against you this day that ye shall surely perish. As the nations which the LORD destroyeth before your face, so shall ye perish, because ye would not be obedient unto the voice of the LORD your God (Deut. 8:19_20).
Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, declares the Lord God. Repent and turn from all your transgressions, lest iniquity be your ruin. (Ez. 18:30)
What time it is?
---Nana on 3/4/10


Israel and Judah's time is over for what? What are you referring to? Your question is very vague, please clarify. Thank you.
---Donna on 3/3/10


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