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Are Women Bishops Biblical

Does anyone have a problem with a woman who gives herself the title Bishop? I do and I refuse to address her as Bishop. She hasn't rebuked me for it, but when I met her, I called her by her first name and still continue to do so. The title Bishop for a woman bothers me, am I in error here?

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 ---Donna on 3/9/10
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Alan8566_of_uk: Please permit me to answer your question on another blog. It would concern context, Jewish phrases, the use of gender, and various Bible verses.
Miche3754: Why do you keep asking the same question(s) over and over again? Are you hoping that God changes his mind? And isnt it hypocritical and supercilious for a person who often does not answer questions, or responds with an ad hominem attack when cornered, to demand answers from others.
---Glenn on 3/25/10


miche3754 //BUT our overseer is a man and he has final say on who teaches. elder, brother that was an awesome post!

But the basis for that is in his position description as head of the church, he may direct who and what is taught and give direction to the church as he sees fit within the guidelines of his denomination.

True?
---Lee1538 on 3/25/10


thank you simon for clarifying. at my fellowship, we have adult class which is equivalent to your bible study. we also allow women to preach. BUT our overseer is a man and he has final say on who teaches. elder, brother that was an awesome post!
---miche3754 on 3/25/10


Glenn ... You ask me to rephrase my question, so here goes:

You say "Since Jesus made the decision to only use men in certain positions within the Church structure ... to dispute it is to call Him a liar"

So ask you Where n the Bible is it recorded that "Jesus made the decision to only use men in certain positions within the Church structure"
---ala8566_of_uk on 3/25/10


Most expositors of the Bible simply reveal there are different interpretations regarding restrictions on women holding church offices. Even the Broadman commentary which is a Baptist creation acknowledges that.

I believe those who discriminate against women based upon their chosen interpretation of scripture do so because of some underlying reason apart from their interpretation. Perhaps some women beat the tar out of them when they were children or perhaps the mother was very dominant while the father was a true weakly.

In any case, their arguments are very weak as is indicated by their ad hominem attacks toward those who believe women are not to be restricted in church offices. These feeble arguments will not change anything.
---Lee1538 on 3/25/10




Simon, brother can you explain to me what the difference is between bible study and Sunday adult class? ---miche3754 on 3/24/10
Forgive me if I misunderstand slightly as I know even in a shared language there can be a difference of understanding (e.g. use of the verb "to nurse" a baby). At our (Anglican) church we have small group Bible study in people's homes where, as a group, we study God's word together (often using notes prepared by the vicar for guidance). We don't have any "Sunday Adult class" but we have services on Sunday (AM is 2xfamily service and a traditional "book of common prayer", evening is a teaching service, midweek we do small group Bible study/prayer or collective teaching/prayer.
---simon7348 on 3/25/10


No one should "give" themselves titles in the Church. People do hold offices and positions in the Church. Women are restricted by God from holding the position of Bishop in the Church. Women are too important to hold such a small office. Read the Bible and see.
---Elder on 3/25/10


Glenn, you found a wife! well amen. I guess you had nothing else to say, huh? Well, I am still waiting for you to show me where Jesus said these horrible things about women that YOU say he says. Can you provide that scripture or not? My answer would be no, you can't. Jesus fellowshiped with and taught women when it was illegal. So now the burden of proof is on you to show where Jesus gave the commands that you say he did.
---miche3754 on 3/25/10


And some women are obeying God, and that must make you mad as you would restrict women to the kitchen & bedroom.
---Lee1538 on 3/23/10

Since you've never denied it and I've asked multiple times, are you Lee Anne... a female? No disrespect but an honest question. By dodging the question sometimes with a question....you are affirming.

It would explain to all of us and help us understand your scripture stretching mission on the subject of women.
---Trav on 3/24/10


Donna: Is she considered to be a 'minister' in your congregation, or is her 'ministry' a separate entity. If she is in submission to your Church, you need to make a decision to as to whether to confront her, or to continue to pray. Doing things the Lords way ultimately brings peace, but you may suffer from some oposition meanwhile. Matthew 6:13, 2Corinthians 4:17, Hebrews 11:25.
Lee and Miche, Please let me help you to set up your straw man. If it's hot outside dress it in shorts, a Hawaiian shirt, and sandals. If the weather is cooler, blue jeans, an appropriate shirt, and ecco shoes.
Lee1538 3/23: Denomination - say what? Has Eloy 'blogged' here yet?
Miche3754 3/24: Once again, I am content with the wife that I have now!
---Glenn on 3/24/10




Simon, brother can you explain to me what the difference is between bible study and Sunday adult class?

Back to the blog question...

No I don't think it is right for a woman to give herself any title within the church.
I don't think it is right for anyone to give themselves titles within the Body of Christ.
I believe that is God's job, not ours.
If he has called you, then he will have already given you the tools. Everyone in the Body of Christ is to be submissive to each other with Christ being the head of it all.
The Bible says we are to submit to each other.
---miche3754 on 3/24/10


Re: 1 Cor. 14:34-35 ESV Bible notes

{Since Paul seems to permit wives to pray and prophesy (11:5, 13)as long as they do not dishonor their husbands by the way they dress (11:5), it is difficult to see this as an absolute prohibition (cf. Acts 2:17, 21:8-9). Paul is likely forbidding women to speak up and judge prophecies (the activity in the immediate context,cf. 1 Cor.14:29), since such an activity would subvert male leadership.

The Law Also Says - Paul is probably thinking of the woman's creation'from' and 'for' the man (11:8-9) as well as a general pattern of male leadership among the people of Israel in the OT.} end of quote.

Glenn, if you want us to help you please consider the above.
---Lee1538 on 3/24/10


I think it's clear how I interpret the scriptures pertaining to this question (I would say also say that it is true that ALL can be discipled, but that though this is quoted, that's not what the initial question was about). Having said that, whilst I would not attend a church where the main teaching was from a woman, it is my choice. 2 churches I have attended have reviewed this and stuck with a "male only" teaching and the church I'm currently at (I have yet to feel a need to leave a church unless I move area) would allow women to take full part in all things except the main teaching of the (mixed) congregation i.e. they do not allow a woman to teach a man in an expository sense (they can guide within a Bible Study discussion though).
---simon7348 on 3/24/10


Miche3754: I see your trying to run out another blog you don't like again.
...............
---Glenn on 3/23/10
First- What are you talking about? I can't understand a man who speaks by pride and NOT love.
2nd
Are you falsely accusing me again? If you are I know that God will deal with you.
You are looking for a wife right? well, brother, learn to bridle the tongue and walk in love then MAYBE God will answer that prayer. But right now, you can forget any woman wanting to be submissive to you.
Trust me I know because I have been looking for a husband and God showed Prov. 31 woman and said that is how I have to be before I get a husband.
I am praying that God really opens your eyes bro and helps you to learn humility.
---miche3754 on 3/24/10


Please print...

Also Glenn,
You did not answer my question...
Where does JESUS say women can't do these things?

Paul's command was NOT for the entire church throughout the rest of the centuries. It was a command for the church at Corinth. Brother you must understand that Paul thought Christ was coming back in his life time. He taught this.
Anyway, please show me where Jesus says this about women.
You say I am dodging ?'s but really it is you hiding behind false interpretations of scripture and misapplying it.
---miche3754 on 3/24/10


Paul, full of the Holy Spirit, and in Gods pleasure wrote - 1Corinthians 14:33-38: For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak, but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
---Glenn on 3/23/10


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1Timothy 2:9 "shamefacedness and sobriety". 11-12 Let the woman learn in >silence< with all >subjection<. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in >silence<. Contrary to rumour, teach in the first clause stands alone, and is not subject to 'over the man' in the second clause "nor" / oude.
Titus 2:3-5 (1Timothy 2:15) The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things, that they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, to be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
---Glenn on 3/23/10


Glenn - yes we can see you are a very frustrated person but so was Saul of Tarsus when he was kicking against the pricks of the truth.

Run out another tread? That is what you recently did with the tread "Can Women Be Pastors" as you did the last 3 entries.

Let's face it you have a deep seated fear some woman may expose you for what you are, namely inadequate in defending your sexually bias against women.

Sorry I cannot accept your interpretation of Scripture as I am totally commited to the truth of the Gospel and in advancing it by whatever resources are available to His church.

Call Christians false prophets, etc. as that is how others will judge you. Mt.7:2.
---Lee1538 on 3/23/10


Glenn //I used to work in a detention center and the people who often did not do well in therapy were those who said that stealing was not wrong, that they never steal, and that they deserved those things.

I used to do the jail ministries and found much the same thing. People refuse to admit their own sinfulness and that they may be blind to the truth.

From reading your posts, especially the accusations you made against other Christians, we would have to say that you truly believe your interpretation of scripture can be the only right one and others to whom you disagree have to be false teachers.

In that sense, you are much like your friend Eloy. Neither of you really are responsible Christians.
---Lee1538 on 3/23/10


Alan8566_of_uk: Would you please rephrase your question again as I didn't quite understand it.
Lee1538 and Miche3754: I see your trying to run out another blog you don't like again.
I used to work in a detention center and the people who often did not do well in therapy were those who said that stealing was not wrong, that they never steal, and that they deserved those things.
I used to ride the bus once a week and a Developmentally Disabled man would often ask a fellow passenger a question. He would then reply why(?) after every response. He did not need to understand the question or its answer, but enjoyed seeing people turn blue at the gills.
---Glenn on 3/23/10


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Glenn //there is many of us who have given you the benefit of a doubt and tried to help you.

I guess there is really nothing you can do as I view results and a much different interpretation of Scripture.

The church being built up in part as a result of Gods callings to women in the ministry.

Poor little me, believing in the sovereignty of God, will not restrict whom God will call in fulfilling the Great Commission - 'make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.' Mt. 28:19-20

And some women are obeying God, and that must make you mad as you would restrict women to the kitchen & bedroom.
---Lee1538 on 3/23/10


Glenn - We are instructed to pray the Lord of the harvest will sent out laborers into His harvest.

Lu 10:2 And he said to them, 'The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few. Therefore pray earnestly to the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest'.

If a woman wishes to join in the labor of the harvest, and comes back with much the same results as the men, why should we not permit them to work alongside of us? Who are we to oppose God in calling forth women to do His work?

The negative answer is usually from those who in the past have justified slavery of Africans because they were condemned being the sons of Ham with much the same scriptural arguments against women of today.
---Lee1538 on 3/23/10


Glenn//Since Jesus made the decision to only use men in certain positions within the Church structure, to dispute it is to call Him a liar.

Perhaps you are listening to a different Jesus but the Jesus I know is not a sexist and does not discriminate against women.

'There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Gal. 3:28

So we will continue to disagree, however I view your position as someone that is very bias and discriminatory against women, much liken to your denominations former view that justified slavery of Africans as sons of Ham.

We do not belong to the same denomination nor do I regard you as our brother in Christ.
---Lee1538 on 3/23/10


"Since Jesus made the decision to only use men in certain positions within the Church structure ... to dispute it is to call Him a liar"

When was that, then?
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/23/10

I know I am going to get the whole "false profit" thing, but I would like to know where Jesus said this Glenn?
Please give scripture.
And don't say that because he chose 12 male disciples he meant only for men to be disciples.
He told his 12 to go and disciple the WHOLE WORLD. That includes women. So you can't use that as an example. In fact NO examples ONLY Scripture. Prove that you are not the false one.
---miche3754 on 3/23/10


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"Since Jesus made the decision to only use men in certain positions within the Church structure ... to dispute it is to call Him a liar"

When was that, then?
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/23/10


2/2
Lee1538 3/22, "All the verses you mention do not restrict women from being called to be deacons, elders or to have any other functional office within the church." Thats a flagrant and licentious lie.
*1 1Corinthians 2:1-16, 2Corinthians 2:17, 4:2.
*2 Proverbs 1:7, 21-33 (29), Jeremiah 44:25, Romans 1:21-22, 8:4-8, 16:17-18, 1Corinthians 1:25, 2:14, 3:1-3, 8:1-2, 11:19, Galatians 5:19-21, Philippians 3:18-19, Colossians 2:18-19, 1Timothy 4:1-2, 2Timothy 3:7-8, Titus 3:10-11, 1Peter 4:1-2, 2Peter 2:1, 3:16, 1John 2:16.
*3 Numbers 23:19, Psalm 89:34, Isaiah 14:24, Malachi 3:6.
---Glenn on 3/23/10


1/2
Lee1538: There are many of us who have given you the benefit of the doubt and have tried to help you *1, but your responses are often a blasphemous heresy *2! Since you deliberately and maliciously teach error, you should be thought of as a false prophet. Since Jesus made the decision to only use men in certain positions within the Church structure, to dispute it is to call Him a liar. Thus, to reject his word is to reject Him *3. You do not have a true love for God, or his children. Please speak to a mature Godly minister who operates in the discerning of Spirits. He could instruct you in doctrine, and tell you about the Lord and his Salvation.
---Glenn on 3/23/10


simon7348//I guess it depends how you "measure" they/you are being continuously blessed in the ministry.
If the church is growing and more people are testifying of coming to know Christ...Spirit of God is working thru them.

Saved lives aren't about big numbers, but individuals repenting. A small church may be more blessed. Are they testifying or being fruitful?
Glenn - The job of financial is that of an elder. We have a woman...And a woman with a degree in education in charge of our teaching ministry...Lee1538
Men are called to be teachers of the flock (as Christ is the head of the Church, so man is the head of the woman, but man should serve as Christ did. It is a failing of us men that we are so weak.
---simon7348 on 3/23/10


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simon7348//I guess it depends how you "measure" they/you are being continuously blessed in the ministry.

If the church is growing and more people are testifying of coming to know Christ, we can surmise they are blessed in the ministry, as the Spirit of God is working thru them.

Glenn - The job of financial accounting in our church is that of an elder. We have a woman who is a CPA currently doing a wonderful job in that position.

And we have a woman with a degree in education in charge of our teaching ministry. And she is doing a magnificient job.

Both positions require they be elders. Should we fire them because they are women and hope to find men that are as qualified?






---Lee1538 on 3/23/10


c. I speak of the rights given to each Christians denomination to govern themselves...

d. As to John Knox, I can agree that no gender should control the other gender. What works in the church is a mixture of both gender elected by the congregation.

Men are to women as Christ is to the church...


Sorry Glenn but as long as the Lord blesses those whom He has called into the ministry, we will continue to employ women in the church.
---Lee1538 on 3/22/10

The Lord blesses whom He chooses. The rain and the sun fall on the godly and the ungodly. I guess it depends how you "measure" that they/you are being continuously blessed in the ministry.
---simon7348 on 3/23/10


2/3 c. I speak of the rights given to each Christians denomination to govern themselves in accordance to their own interpretation of Scripture to which they are accountable to God, not to other denominations. To compare a Biblical oriented denomination to Communion or Fascism is much like comparing your mother to a madam of a brothel.

d. As to John Knox, I can agree that no gender should control the other gender. What works in the church is a mixture of both gender elected by the congregation.

Sorry Glenn but as long as the Lord blesses those whom He has called into the ministry, we will continue to employ women in the church.
---Lee1538 on 3/22/10


Donna: Based on your response of 3/18 on Purpose Of Tithing Today, perhaps she knows who the generous people are. Most pseudo ministers are very astute in seducing others in order to give. 1Timothy 3, 2Timothy 3:1-9, Titus 1:10-16. Rather than only considering this womans unfitness for the office, it would be useful to consider the difference(s) in roles between men and women. In either case, the church should attempt to follow Gods direction concerning discipline. Or consider going to a Church with ordinate and Godly leaders. Deuteronomy 30:15, Joshua 24:15, Luke 13:34, John 10:12-13, Philippians 2:1-23.
---Glenn on 3/22/10


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Foretelling the future does not make a person a Prophet. It only means they have the Gift of Prophecy,but much more is required to make one a Prophet. Everyone who thinks someone is a Prophet needs to study what all the Prophets in the Bible did. Study their Gifts,which they will have many. Prophets did whatever God told them to and did whatever needed to be done for God's Kingdom as they were enabled by God. Prophets always agree with God's Word and don't bring off the wall new ideas. I don't like to say this but,God has used me by showing me the future,so I can pray, and in many of the other GIfts of the Spirit. I'm not a Prophet,nothing special,just a Child of God who seeks to obey my Master and be instant in season and out of season.
---Darlene_1 on 3/22/10


1/2

a.Those that are called into any office should also be endowed with the gifts necessary for that office. Gods calling should come with the gifts to accomplish that office and we do not see any distinctions being made based on gender. A woman can be as skilled and endowed with gifts much the same as men.

b. All the verses you mention do not restrict women from being called to be deacons, elders or to have any other functional office within the church. One should consider what the dominant role of women were in the cultures to which these verses were given.
---Lee1538 on 3/22/10


Lee1538 3/10:
First paragraph - Equality in Christ is not equality in office. Having a gift does not equate to having an office. Romans 12:1-9, 1Corinthians 10:1-14, 12:1-31.
Second paragraph - He has not called one woman into the office of Bishop. 1Timothy 2:14, 3:4-5, 12, 5:17, Titus 1:5-9.
Third - You confuse might and right. Communism and Fascism had the sufficient might to kill 20 million Jews, but never the right to do so. Another option is to stand and fight for Gods will in Gods Church.. 2Corinthians 13:5, 1Timothy 6:12, 1Peter 3:15.
Fourth paragraph - I partially agree with your thesis, but you wish to enslave Christians to what John Knox called the monstrous regiment of women.
---Glenn on 3/22/10


Whether one accepts it or not, women today are achieving equality with men not only in the church but other employment.

While there are a few that have objections to the role of women, they need to realize that if God blesses the ministries He has called women into, they cannot expect to stop it.

Each Christian denomination has the right to its own interpretation of Scripture as well as what how they govern themselves. Those that object to what a church holds to be true in its beliefs, have the option of going elsewhere.

The issue today of women in the church is much like the issue the church had in trying to justify its view on Africans being slaves.
---Lee1538 on 3/21/10


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God only recognizes those whom He calls, and He calls only men to a Bishopric. Even G1985 episkopos is a masculine noun that can not be applied to a woman. Agreeing are, all the Apostles, all the first century churches including Corinth, nearly all of the commentators for 1900 years, and all mature believers in Christ. Those verses concerning male leadership are not difficult to understand, and any opinion to the contrary is neither authoritative, nor Biblical, Galatians 19-20. A man having these same characteristics (3/9) would also be disqualified.
1Corinthians 11:3-10, 13, 15-16, 14:(33)34-35 (36-38), Ephesians 5:22-24, 33, Colossians 3:18, 1Timothy 2:18-15, Titus 2:5, 1Peter 3:1-6.
---Glenn on 3/21/10


Jerry, don't you realize she could have been taking one of Nostradamus quatrains and using on all of you? Anything is possible since she is human and prone to failure like everyone else. I just heard Nostradamus quatrains on the History channel.
I predict there will be an earthquake in California an it will be soon, and people will suffer greatly. That is my first quatrain.
Jerry, I don't have the authority to speak about everything Ellen wrote or taught or preached or prophicies to all of you. I do have twenty books, volumes 1-2 of the Ages, Acts, Prophets, Home teachings. Is that enough? I can look and find anything in there to give me a very good idea who she was.
---MarkV. on 3/21/10


Jerry - such vague predictions by Ellen White are really on the shame shelf as those of Nostradamus.

You should also know that at a SDA conference she predicted some of the members would see Christ return and that was well over 100 years ago.


And of course, she fully predicted in her visions that Christ would come again in 1844 fully believing in William Millers sorry ass prediction.
---Lee1538 on 3/21/10


Lee: "something Ellen White was consistently wrong at."

First of all, never end a sentence with a preposition.

Secondly, your statement was completely false. In "Testimonies for the Church" in the section beginning at Volume 9, page 11 (get it 9-11?) she wrote the following:

"On one occasion, when in New York City, I was in the night season called upon to behold buildings rising story after story toward heaven....The scene that next passed before me was an alarm of fire. Men looked at the lofty and supposedly fire-proof buildings and said: "They are perfectly safe." But these buildings were consumed as if made of pitch. The fire engines could do nothing to stay the destruction."
---jerry6593 on 3/21/10


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1 Cor. 12:8f To one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, ... to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, ...

MarkV - some associate the gift of prophecy with that of preaching rather than with predicting the future - something Ellen White was consistently wrong at.

If this is what Jerry is saying, then he is correct.
---Lee1538 on 3/20/10


MarkV: As usual, you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about. I'll bet you've never read a thing Ellen White wrote, and yet you claim to be an authority.

You made a claim that prophets were over after Revelation. I gave you a scripture that proved you wrong. But do you admit your error? No! You continue your hate-filled rant. Try to stay on topic. Were you wrong or not?????
---jerry6593 on 3/20/10


//And on my servants and on my HANDMAIDENS I will pour out in those days of my Spirit, and they shall prophesy.

Amazing is it not? But there is no record any of the women that prophesied in Acts 2 got hit in the face with a rock like what happened to Ellen White.

According to medical researchers (Loma Linda), such an frontal head injury could indeed cause one to have visions. And they predicted that visions would decease over time and that is what happened to Ellen White, she had frequent visions while young and they decreased as she got older.

Read the articles on this on the internet.

But like our Roman Catholic friends with Virgin Mary, the SDA also needs a female figure they can also look to.



---Lee1538 on 3/19/10


We all have to recognize the FACT that Ellen White had virtually no credentials within the Christian community as a whole. There was no Aaron's rod that bloomed and budded, nor did she do any miracles, no burning bush experiences, and nearly everything she wrote was from other authors.

Sadly, the SDA dishonored the Christians within that denominations by canonizing her writings and putting them on the same shelf as Holy Writ.

But so what, the Mormons did much the same with olde Joseph Smith.
---Lee1538 on 3/19/10


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That's funny Jerry, in Act 2:17-21 Peter quotes from Joel 2:28-32 and applies it directly to pentecost against the accusation of being drunk well before Revelation was written.
---MIchael on 3/19/10


Donna 1 Timothy 3:1 This is a true saying,if a man desire the office of a bishop,he desires a good work. In the Greek Lexicon "if a man" means "whoever or whatever",not man as it is translated. If you put the correct word "whoever" then that can also be a woman. In that case the rest of the chapter would be made to fit that word, a Bishop must be the spouse of one. In the First Century women did minister just like the men until the Catholic Church raised a cry against them because they were not Priests of the RCC. With that came the change to only men. God wouldn't equip women with the same gifts as men if they werent meant to use them in the same way.
---Darlene_1 on 3/19/10


Jerry, what difference is her words from those of the Mormons who claim the same thing, or the Witnessess who predict the end of the world over and over? No difference at all. The same false prophets. Should we believe the dreams of many here are from God? Many don't even know the Bible.

Trust the Bible not a person. They all fail. Just like Ellen did. She is just one of many who come out with their dreams and visions. The only reason she became big is because of many you believed her. If you hadn't no one would know about her, just like the others who came before her.
---MarkV. on 3/19/10


MarkV: "prophets closed at the end of Revelation"

You don't seem to know your Bible very well.

Act 2:17,18 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your DAUGHTERS shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my HANDMAIDENS I will pour out in those days of my Spirit, and they shall prophesy:
---jerry6593 on 3/19/10


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Jerry //Your argument is against the Bible - not me.

Judging on the comments you have made in the past, it is very doubtful if you know anything at all about the Bible or even its Author.

You should ask yourself how one becomes a Christian and you will find out that you are really not one.

That was my problem over 50 years ago. I believed I was a Christian but really had never been born of His Spirit. I was simply a very good moralist thinking like you do that if I were a good little boy, God would bless me with eternal life instead of casting me into hell.

Jesus is the Lord, not not not Ellen White.
---Lee1538 on 3/18/10


Jerry, she was not like the prophets of the Bible. The Holy Scripture and prophets closed at the end of Revelation. Now I know that is why you believed everything she said and stand by them. She replaced the prophets of the Bible with her revelations, in the same group as the prophet from Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses. You took the truth out and forgot about it, and replaced it with Ellen White and her newer Prophesy.
---MarkV. on 3/18/10


Lee: Your argument is against the Bible - not me. FYI, Ellen White was never a deacon, elder, or a bishop. She was a prophet - just like the female prophets of the Bible.
---jerry6593 on 3/18/10


Donna said, "okay let me go a little deeper here. She quit her job to be a full-time Pastor and then became Bishop.

Here's where I have the problem.

Three times she asked me to borrow money."

Stay away!!!

Run quickly away from anyone that is using a title to gain a "gift" or "loan."

You will lose money!

Then, if this church is not a "non-denominational" or "independent," but has a hierarchy, tell her boss!
---FatherBrendan on 3/17/10


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\\Three times she asked me to borrow money.\\

Donna, have you ever read the Didache, an early Christian writing, probably coming immediately after the NT in time of composition?

In it, it says that if a prophet says, "Give someone some money or other thing," you are to do it.

But if he says, "Give me money or this and that," then the person is a false prophet.

Rather obvious what we're dealing with here.

(BTW--does this sound like today's popular TV and other independent ministries?)
---Cluny on 3/17/10


/If the church in question were to use the Bible as their standard of conduct, then a woman colud never be a deacon, elder or bishop, since it is impossible for them to be "husbands."

1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the HUSBAND of one wife
==============
Very true, and if you were to use the Bible as the standard of conduct, then a single man could never be a deacon, elder, bishop, since they need to be married.

Jerry, your view simply does not not not reflect any good sense. And I am surprised since your Ellen White was indeed a very vocal leader in your denomination in spite that the scripture tells us that women should be silent in the church and ask their husbands if they needed any explanations.
---Lee1538 on 3/16/10


If the church in question were to use the Bible as their standard of conduct, then a woman colud never be a deacon, elder or bishop, since it is impossible for them to be "husbands."

1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the HUSBAND of one wife
---jerry6593 on 3/16/10


Donna, courtesy requires that we address a person as s/he wishes to be addressed.
---Cluny on 3/15/10


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While each denomination has the right to govern itself according to their own interpretation of the Scripture in regard to the qualifications for their ministers, elders, deacons and other functionaries and whatever they call them, they are not accountable to other denominations and their peculiar interpretation of scripture.

So to call a woman a Bishop is totally up to that sect or denomination as they are equally accountable to the Lord as we are in our interpretation of His word and in the way they conduct themselves.

If one does not feel comfortable as to the format a sect or denomination has or about what is being taught doctrinally, there is always the option of going elsewhere.
---Lee1538 on 3/12/10


Donna, you are absolutely right in doing that. She is sinning against G-d and His Holyspirit. She has place her throne above G-d will. AND SHE KNOWS IT!

She is making her own rules and laws in defiance of the Holy One.

She is in short Blaspheming G-d.

She is NO Bishop or a member of the clergy. She is a False Facade that out of her own will gave herself (or accepted) a title not given by G-d. Blasphemy!

She is very lucky you even talk to her.
I WOULDN'T!
---John on 3/11/10


I have a problem with anyone who wants me to address them with a "title" they have given themselves. Like those who go around saying they are Prophet or Prophetess this or that. Even though I am a pastor's wife I prefer that adults call me by my first name like our example in the Bible. Children at church call me Miss or Sister or Teacher and use my first name as they have been taught to respect their elders.
---KarenD on 3/11/10


Note that the term 'bishop' in the NT was a much lower level than the current 'pastor' in most churches. From most of the letters, it seems their job was mostly to ensure things in the church went properly. The teaching (of scripture) is not clearly their job, though it may have been seen as part of their responsibility
---peter3594 on 3/11/10


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I see three issues off the top of my head.

1) The Bible says not to call anyone, Rabbi or teacher. I don't call "pastors" by that title, but by their name.

2) She gave herself the title, although most men "pastors" do the same.

3) The issue of a woman "Bishop, pastor." umm...maybe, if "Papa won't pop."
---Rod4Him on 3/9/10


My best advice for you is to pray for her and ask God for guidance in regard to your relationship with her, but do not continue to judge her.
---Connie on 3/9/10


Donna:

You are to obey the governing authorities (2 Peter) including the ones you place yourself under. This includes church, HOA, clubs, etc.

If you find you do not want to obey this person in authority over you, I suggest you leave.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/9/10


Children of the Father:

There should no women bishop, in the church of saints.

True men/women of the Father, are obedient to those examples placed for our learning, in the New Testament.

Be obedient to what the Father spoke through Paul teaches AFTER THE resurrection, 30 yrs. into the CHURCH AGE:

1Cr 14:33 for God is not [a God] of confusion, but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,

34 let the women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak, but let them be in subjection, as also saith the law.

Should we folllow the example of the church of Saints or of the apostasy?
---Paul9594 on 3/9/10


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You are placing yourself in the position of God. You are not. You need to understand this,first of all. Who are we to say God cannot and will not use who or what he chooses. Not us. How does this woman relate to you? You do not have to loan her your money or associate with her,in any way. That's your choice. But we should be respectful of peoples positions. If not the person, at least the position. God will deal with this lady. It is not for you to judge her. Pray for her and maintain your peace and joy with God. Stay focused on Jesus.
---Robyn on 3/9/10


Donna, What denomination are we talking about, independent churches usually don't have bishops as Bishops are responsible for a number of Churches. The answer is critical as to what is going on. Are you stating that she is self proclaimed to the position. We need feed back from you.
---Friendly_Blogger on 3/9/10


Amen Larry!
Sister Donna,
I will tell you that if she is truly a called woman of God, first she would be humble. Exhibiting the fruits of the Holy Spirit.
Measure by that sis, and God will help you see the truth.
I have never heard of a woman being called a bishop at all. Deaconess yes, but not bishop.
I am not going to tell you NOT to call her that because of what God says in his word about appointed authority. If the elders have given her that title, then call her that so you don't offend, but pray that God opens the other's eyes.
---miche3754 on 3/9/10


okay let me go a little deeper here. She quit her job to be a full-time Pastor and then became Bishop.

Here's where I have the problem.

Three times she asked me to borrow money. Once for cosmetic surgery. The second time was for an airline ticket her niece wanted to buy for $1,000 for a trip because "she was believing God would pay me back at the end of the month." HOGWASH, I was going to get stuck paying this ticket. That's presumptous faith. Then she called and told me she took a nervious breakdown. Her life doesn't reflect that of a Christian following Christ. She does not want Jesus to return because SHE has things SHE wants to accomplish in HER ministry. Now tell me if you could "SUBMIT" to her.I can't.
---Donna on 3/9/10


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Sister Donna, none of what is going on in your question sounds holy. Let's start there.
God doesn't care about titles. More important is her motive for seeking the title and evidence that you two are not in one accord.
Everything is wrong, wrong, wrong.

Pauline instruction has to do with order (God-man and woman) but the secular world has crept into the sanctuary fooling the unwise to put the focus on position and worth.
She can have any title as long as she does not hold authority over men in the congregation.
Brother Lawrence actually inserted to scripture into the mountains of opinion on this issue of women and authority. What a concept.
---larry on 3/9/10


What worries me about this "Bishop" is not the fact that she is a woman, but that she 'gives herself the title Bishop'
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/9/10


In the Bible all the people who could (now) have the title of Bishop (the Greek means overseer) appear to have been men. The comment in Timothy can only mean a man - BUT - is it possible Paul was writing this way only because there were, as of yet, no women holding hte post or that the church was unwiling to ordain one? I still find the idea of women in clerical posts as odd, but this may be my mistake
---peter3594 on 3/9/10


Donna you are wrong not to address the way Lady as bishop if she is the husband of one wife.

First Timothy 3:2 says," A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach,"

Crazy crazy world!!!!!
---mima on 3/9/10


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Donna,

Are women allow to vote where you live?
---atheist on 3/9/10


What denomination is the female Bishop associated with.

I have worked with many female pastors and lay Elders and I have no problem with them if a denomination want to appoint a female Bishop all the power to them.

God form of address is normally masculine [even though having the best attributes of both sexes.] In her ecclesiastical capacity she serves under Gods direction as he call her into the ministry in the first place so she should be able to serve men as well as women equally in her position. And I hope that puts a final end to this type of Garbage, but of course it won't because we have to many sexual bigots blogging on ChristiaNet.
---Friendly_Blogger on 3/9/10


It's Not her place that I know of. Because of here in The N-Testament, Matt.15 v 9 & 2nd. Cor.11 v's 14-15. The Man-made relig-org's churches, it seems like anything & everything goes, even the worldly pleasures such as social-alcoh-drinks, missing services to see & or to participate in sports, smokes, movies, club-dancing etc. These are abominations to Almighty God. 1st. John 2 v's 15-16.
---Lawrence on 3/9/10


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