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Obama's New Healthcare Bill

Should we support Obama's newest healthcare bill?

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 ---Alan on 3/10/10
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If health care passes, the Republic is done.
---ralph7477 on 3/16/10

This country is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions, real wrath of God type stuff.
Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling! Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...
The dead rising from the grave!
Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

Ralph, you gonna run off to Costa Rico with Rush Limbaugh?
---NurseRobert on 3/17/10


"how many ... have died because they couldn't afford treatment?
One study put the number at 45,000 per year.

If people seek treatment they get it whether ... insured or not.
They get immediate treatment for an acute issue, they do not get treatment for the cronic illness (heart disease, diabetes, etc).

talking about Canada..
Yes, there system is so bad the conservative goddess, Sarah P, got her health care there.

If health care was a true freemarket..
You should read Kenneth Arrows Uncertainty and the welfare economics of health care. Enlightening.

If people used...insurance rates would be cut in half
What did you base this on?
---NurseRobert on 3/17/10


Obewan -- I don't know what you saw or when. But for a number of years now, hospitals are required by law to see everyone who comes into the emergency room and admit whomever needs hospitalization. That's the LAW.

Where I live, our emergency rooms are bulging 24 hours a day with patients, many of whom are in the country illegally. This is a border state, so that some illegals come just to have the baby delivered or the broken bone re-set or some other medical reason. (Though Mexico has Socialized medicine) Many of the people in the ER have URI's ("colds") or other minor complaints, but they have no regular doctor. The latter group will be seen but they may wait 8-12 hrs for treatment. True emergencies are seen STAT.
---Donna66 on 3/17/10


If people seek treatment they get it whether they are insured or not. ---ralph7477 on 3/17/10

Really? That is news to me.

Maybe that is why they had that expose' on TV where a New York hospital was "dumping" uninsured people in the street gutters.

I saw it with my own eyes (on hidden camera video). The ambulance pulled to the curb in the ghetto, opened the door, and overturned the wheelchair.
---obewan on 3/17/10


I can't really say I like his idea for it, but the current idea of f your family had problems in the past, or if you (like I did) got young-age diabetes at the age of 8, you just cannot buy insurance..... I also don't like that idea. something ought to be changed, but whatever is said, it's going to cost a lot - anything medical is. So the big question is, who has to pay? I had to leave the US because of that, and emigrate to Europe.... but that's only because my family is European, most Americans can't do that. I know many/most Americans don't like the bill, I suspect it's the same many/most who actually CAN buy insurance
---peter3594 on 3/17/10




HMMM??? Isn't that communism?
---John on 3/17/10

Far from it. Last time I checked, I still get to choose where I work. I still own a private home. We still have ample food to choose from and there are no lines for missing toilet paper.

Plus, our borders are open. You are free to leave any time you want John. Since you are so unhappy living in a "communist" nation maybe you would be happier in Mexico or one of the "socialist" nations since they still offer a lot more free choices than "communism"
---obewan on 3/17/10


obewan:

You just proved why health care reform is vital, but soft drink reform is not.


John:

No, it isn't communism.
Communism is when you're forced to vote at gunpoint for one candidate just to prove how 'democratic' it is.
Communism is when criticizing the government gets you labelled a traitor and thrown into jail (Remember how people critical of Bush's were treated in 2002?)
Communism is when you can't own property - the state owns it all.

In contrast, Obama and everyone in Congress got there because at election time, the majority of voting Americans decided they were the best for the job. If their opinions change, they're free to elect somebody else next time around. THAT's democracy.
---StrongAxe on 3/17/10


Now the Democrats will be running the Health bill through without any votes at all.

Inspite of the fact that now 3/4 of Americans are against it.

HMMM??? Isn't that communism?
---John on 3/17/10
Where did you hear those lies?

It is called a simple majority vote instead of a 2/3 vote.

The Republicans have done it several times themselves. To appoint judges as well as get tax cuts for the rich.

Isn't that communism? You can't have it both ways you know!

And the opposition is only something like low 50's %!

You still post these untruths!
---obewan on 3/17/10


StrongAxe, how many people in the USA have died because they couldn't afford treatment? If people seek treatment they get it whether they are insured or not. Now if you are talking about Canada or UK for example, yes people die while on waiting lists as the government bureaucrats decide who gets care and when.

Insurance companies are providing the services people demand. It's just that everyone thinks that somebody else should pay the bill. If health care was a true free market and if people used insurance properly and took responsibility for their own health, insurance rates would be cut in half at a minimum. All without a government takeover.
---ralph7477 on 3/17/10


Now the Democrats will be running the Health bill through without any votes at all.

Inspite of the fact that now 3/4 of Americans are against it.

HMMM??? Isn't that communism?
---John on 3/17/10




If you don't like health insurance, you can choose to die when you get sick. Big difference.
---StrongAxe on 3/16/10
If you have health insurance you can choose to die if you get sick.

My sister had cancer. The PRIVATE insurance company "decided" her case was "terminal". They refused to pay for an expensive bone marrow treatment - even though she was BELOW her claim limits and the "contract" required it.

She paid for it anyway on her own, went bankrupt, had her credit rating destroyed, but was cured!

The other issue is rate increases AFTER you get sick. If they can make you go bankrupt from high rates or cancel AFTER you get sick, what is the point at all of insurance?
---obewan on 3/17/10


ralph7477:

The reason nobody is screaming about soft drink profits is that nobody ever died from not being able to afford to drink Coke, and nobody ever had to lose their home and life savings paying for somebody elses life-saving Pepsi. If you don't like it, you can choose to drink coffee or tea or water. If you don't like health insurance, you can choose to die when you get sick. Big difference.
---StrongAxe on 3/16/10


Very good, Ralph. Hardly anybody in this administration has any experience in business. I don't think most of them know what "profit margin" or even "net profit" means.

They see the profit motive as "evil" and "greedy" and assume that a profit is "extra" money that one is free to spend on luxuries! (the way they usually want to spend taxpayers money).

Appreciate you putting things into perspective.
---Donna66 on 3/17/10


Gee Obewan, 8-9 per cent a year? The profit margin for the health insurance industry is about 3.5%. You want 2 to 3 times bigger profits than those greedy health insurers. There are at least 70 other industry sectors that have larger profit margins than the insurance industry.

Soft drinks top the list at 26% profit margins. How come nobody in Washington is railing against Coke or Pepsi for overcharging the consumer. Isn't it funny how people gladly plunk down $1.50 for a bottle of soda with about 2 cents worth of product inside and are happy to do it. Yet those same people moan and complain if they have to pay anything "out-of-pocket" for anything to do with their own health. If health care passes, the Republic is done.
---ralph7477 on 3/16/10


I live in a hurricane-prone area, too. After hurricane IKE, insurance companies tripled the rates for coastal homeowners. Of course, there were loud cries of protest!

So what they did was to spread the cost over the whole state, irritating everybody! Ha! But that's how insurance works. It's a gamble. They gamble that those who pay but don't need their services will pay for those who have expensive claims.
Health insurance works the same way.

Obewan says
However, insurance companies will nstack (sic) the decks in their favor and insure people likely to NEVER file a claim

So, yes they insure healthy people who probably won't need to make a claim. Otherwise, they couldn't afford to pay the claims of the ill.
---Donna66 on 3/15/10


you wouldn't have any problem charging somebody a 600% markup for the stocks
---ralph7477

Actually, I would have a problem charging a 600% markup - unless I had owned it for 30 years. (I would feel guilty.)

The current stock market is nothing more than a roulette wheel where people have insane desires to get rich quick. Investing now is not for dividend return. It is for stock price increase. I invest to help provide jobs, infrastructure, and long term stability to our society. I am a conservative investor who only expects returns of 8% or 9% a year.

Actually, I am in bonds now and happy to earn 6%. That strategy will provide all I need for retirement in 8 years - IF AND BIG IF I DON'T GET SICK AND GO BANKRUPT.
---obewan on 3/15/10


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Let's get this 2700 page bill that no one has read through passed so we all can see what's in it. WOW!. Christmas in march, What more could we ask for?
---wayne on 3/15/10


Obewan, the problem with these sob stories you put forth is that only bits and pieces are revealed which are meant to fit an agenda, as well as the fact that everybody could come up with one.

With few exceptions, most of us could tell a story of how we were wronged and lost money, fell on hardship or can't afford this or that. People face financial hardship and sometimes bankruptcy for many reasons. Divorce, lawsuits, accidents, criminal activity, the list goes on. Should the government take over every area of life so that no one ever faces unpleasantness?

You don't like free markets but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have any problem charging somebody a 600% markup for the stocks you own. Or would that not be fair?
---ralph7477 on 3/15/10


Obewan -- When you talk about insurance companies "making billions", are you talking about "income" or do you mean "profits"?
There is a vast difference.
---Donna66 on 3/14/10

I certainly mean profit. The company in CA that cried for the 40% increase said it needed to do so to make a profit. It had a multi billion dollar profit in the year prior to the increase. It really did so to return double digit profits to it's stockholders. The CEO was paid $24M a year, and there were 34 "executives" on staff who earned in excess of $1M a year!

The single mom with the increase has to pay out $32K/yr. before she can even get any money back with a $20K ded.
---obewan on 3/15/10


Obewan -- When you talk about insurance companies "making billions", are you talking about "income" or do you mean "profits"?
There is a vast difference.
---Donna66 on 3/14/10


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Is this your idea of utopia. (sic) Government interfering with free enterprise. (sic) Its (sic) called Communism.
John

That's a distortion!

The insurance company that tried gouging FL homeowners for Katrina losses had money to cover the damages. It just had a "loss" for that year or series of years.

It tried to "recoup" those losses by unfair pricing with FL homeowners and was told by FL state govt that if they wanted to sell auto insurance in FL they would have to cease gouging on homeowners policies. They backed off on their 600% increases for shoreline properties and have been making billions since and are still sell both policies. It is called playing the capitalism game with a fair set of rules.
---obewan on 3/14/10


larry-- I'm not sure what Obama's latest "insurance excghange" is. His first idea would pit a government program against private insurance companies. That is unfair competition because the government program, unlike private ones, can operate at a loss.

His next idea was to standarize pricing and services for all insurance companies, but allow them to charge more for pre-existing conditions. This practically eliminates competition, and with it, freedom of choice.

The last I heard the Senate wanted exchanges to be state-wide, the house wanted to nationalize them. How they proposed including Republican ideas, I don't know. Do you? As speaker Pelosi says, "we have to pass the bill to find out what's in it".
---Donna66 on 3/14/10


Then we have the property insurers in FL that after Hurricance Katrina rasied "high risk" policies from $2k/yr to $12Kyr to "recoup losses" (until the gov't said NO!).
---obewan on 3/13/10

Is this your idea of utopia. Government interfering with free enterprise. Its called Communism.
---John on 3/14/10


You people misunderstand pre-existing conditions.

If the insurance company has their own way to charge whatever they want, people with a father who had colon cancer end up paying $12,000/yr. for a $6,000 policy. I know from my own life that "genetic discrimination" is a rampant problem and left unchecked it will only get worse.

That single mom in CA from the news has no "choice" (as Ralph suggests) and has a right to "whine". Her Blue Cross (monopoly) policy went up 40% to $12,000/yr. with a $20K deductible.

Then we have the property insurers in FL that after Hurricance Katrina rasied "high risk" policies from $2k/yr to $12Kyr to "recoup losses" (until the gov't said NO!).
---obewan on 3/13/10


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Now,Now..John. It's just not that simple. Pre-existing conditions often don't lead to death, or cause great pain. They may not prevent the sufferer from living a normal life.

You are talking about diabetics, kids with seizure disorders (that they might even outgrow) or with autism, adults with history of high blood pressure, history of cancer (no matter how years "cancer free"), angina, need for psychotropic medication etc etc. the list is nearly endless.

Lately the government takes the stance that they know what's best for us and that we, the ordinary people, are basically stupid.
But I think they'd have a great difficulty taking things as far as you say.
---Donna66 on 3/13/10


Lets not be naive about pre-existing condition.

If you have a pre-existing condition the government will take care of you by bringing you the the Death Panel. They will issue you the Pain Pill.

Can you see has this will eventually evolve to Nazi Death Camps. Since there will be million on this Death List.

Auschwitz anybody!
---John on 3/13/10


So you know, my comment about 'pre-existing conditions' is because I'm diabetic. When I was in NC, and was looking for another job, I was suggested an insurance policity (at least they did no treject me), with one 'if' - they would not pay for problems relatin to my diabetes for 18 months - and dont even ask about the cost. I don't want the govt to have to pay too much, but the idea of taking everyone has a big BAD point: if they have to take veryone and not charge extra for pre-existing, they will just raise the price for everyone. Could the govt just include people who cant get it elsewhere in something like medicare? I know it's expensive, though
---peter3594 on 3/13/10


Ralph7477: you provide a good problem with pre-existing conditions, but you misunderstand what they mean by that term! They mean people who have had a problem (chronic problem, like me having diabetes since I was 8), not people who run to get insurance when they are ill. But there are dangers for the insurers as well: a person knows that he is getting fat, his father got fat and got heart disease (or old age diabetes) when he was 60, so he gets insurance at 50. Who pays for that? Yes, there is always a problem - either do the cover everyone (get everyone to buy insurance when they are young - not much freedom there, of course) or put the people who are high-risk in some (probably govt) insurance.
---peter3594 on 3/13/10


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Define "price gauging". Does it mean when you have to pay more than you think you should? Sounds like the free market, supply and demand. A little forethought and planning would tell an individual to buy a couple jugs of windshield wiper fluid before it actually snows.

Evidently your solution is for the government to make sure that nobody needs to bother to plan ahead or demonstrate any common sense. That's the real problem with health care and so many other things. We are conditioned to expect everything we want right now regardless of how, what it costs or who pays. Everything we want becomes a right. We are a country of helpless, whiny, babies and the liberals are more than happy to take control and care for us.
---ralph7477 on 3/13/10


If insurance companies could compete across state lines, competition and the benefit thereof would increase.
---Donna66 on 3/11/10

Yes Donna, President Obama agreed with House Republicans and put it in the bill (its called National Exchange) only to be turned down by Republicans in the Senate, go figure. The Senate is dysfunctional and the bill is probably dead anyway. As I said previously, send those 27-million and growing to the ER waiting rooms - health care solved! Boehner should be very happy.

Ralph, the BofA decision is huge and other banks in competition will follow. The new legislation would allow customers a choice (imagine that) of opting-in to overdraft fees. Your original postulate was in error. God bless.
---larry on 3/13/10


insurance companies cover you for pre-existing conditions as long as they can charge whatever they want ---ralph7477

Unregulated, we know they indulge in price gouging.

With 5% greater risk of cancer, I would gladly pay 5% more or whatever is statistically significant. However, insurance companies will nstack the decks in their favor and insure people likely to NEVER file a claim. Or, they want the right to cancel after claims are filed. Or, they want the deductible and premium so HIGH it would be impossible for the consumer to break even if sick.

And, they operate like people who price gouge during snowstorms and charge $5/gal for $1 worth of windshield washer. There are "laws" in Michigan to prevent that!
---obewan on 3/12/10


A national health plan would be something for the people. And most politicians are diligently working for their own interest and not the People's. The people at large do not offer large donations(should be called brides) such as a special interest like the AMA, hospital associations, and insurance companies are able to provide. We have the best government money can buy.
---mima on 3/12/10


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Mandate that states should set up a "high risk" pool for those with pre-existing conditions. It could be managed by an insurance Co. they already use. Better yet, If insurance Co's could compete across state lines, let them bid for the high risk pool and open the bidding to all insurance Co.'s

But first attack the high cost of medical care...make it difficult to bring "frivolous suits" so Dr's don't have to practice "defensive medicine" ordering things their patients don't need. Ireland handles this by a Board of doctors and laymen who mediate claims outside the court system.

Again increase competition between insurance Co's. NOT between government and private companies, to reduce premiums.
---Donna66 on 3/12/10


I am for requiring that insurance companies cover you for pre-existing conditions as long as they can charge whatever they want for the policy. Otherwise, what's the incentive to buy insurance before you have a health issue?

It would be like not buying homeowners insurance until your house is on fire and requiring that the insurance company has to sell you a policy as your house is burning to the ground.

Or being able to call the insurance company for collision coverage after you wreck your car. Can your spouse take out life insurance on you after you croak? Of course not. So why are we trying to sidestep the laws of economics when it comes to health care?
---ralph7477 on 3/12/10


OK, OK, his plan looks quite terrible, BUT - what would you want to do? Does anyone have other ideas? Especially for people with pre-existing conditions? Anyone?
---peter3594 on 3/12/10

Yes, that is what I want to hear!

I have a genetic disorder that causes benign tumors. The general cancer risk is 20%. My cancer risk is 25%. I can NOT be insured apart from an employer group policy, and I am presently uninsured.

In the old days when it was legal for employers to do so, I had TWO job offers rescinded when they found a couple of benign tumors at the pre-employment physical. The first one nearly put me into bankruptcy because I only had $600 in the bank and had just signed a 1 year apartment lease.
---obewan on 3/12/10


"Any other ideas." I can't understand any of Obama's ideas.

Here's an idea, take one concern at a time. Pre-existing conditions, regulate that Insurance companies must take these folks, and allow cross state competition.
---Rod4Him on 3/12/10


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OK, OK, his plan looks quite terrible, BUT - what would you want to do? Does anyone have other ideas? Especially for people with pre-existing conditions? Anyone?
---peter3594 on 3/12/10


Ralph-- Frankly, I have no sympathy for people who write bad checks or spend more than they have in their accounts

Sorry for taking your statement out of context, but it sounds like exactly what out federal government is doing.
---Donna66 on 3/12/10


\\NO! God spoked(sic) to me before the man was elected and He said, "if that man gets elected".\\

I would not admit to hearing voices. If you tell the wrong person they might file a complaint to have you detained and forcibly medicated. LOL
---obewan on 3/12/10


\\And as I recall, Reagan was the first divorced and remarried president. umm..
---Rod4Him on 3/12/10\\

And we've had at least two presidents who have married divorcees: Andrew Jackson and Gerald Ford.
---Cluny on 3/12/10


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\\NO! God spoked to me before the man was elected and He said, "if that man gets elected".\\

The very fact that you heard a voice saying "If" proves it was not God who spoke to you.

Were it really God, He would have said WHO was going to be elected, not "if."

Newt Gingrich likewise served divorce papers on his first wife as she lay on her hospital bed. He now is married for the third time.

I wonder, when he voted for DOMA, which of his marriages he was defending?
---Cluny on 3/12/10


And as I recall, Reagan was the first divorced and remarried president. umm..
---Rod4Him on 3/12/10


catherine:

It's curious how many Christians pilloried Bill Clinton because of adultery, over one dalliance with Monica Lewinsky, yet the same people were very willing to vote for John McCain, who divorced his wife while she was in the hospital (a very callous thing), and remarried (which Jesus himself called adultery).

I guess it's bad if it's someone whose politics one disagrees with, but it's fine if it's someone who shares one's political views, right?
---StrongAxe on 3/12/10


John -- I suspect you are right, but we have to do what we can do to prevent as much damage as possible. Obama's motives don't really make for a good debate...only the trading of insults.
---Donna66 on 3/12/10


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CAN WE PLEASE get back to the real subject of the healthcare, and avoid just insulting/defending the president? It is just wasting time! Even if you dislike someone, you can still debate what he is doing, in an impartial way
---peter3594 on 3/12/10


NO! God spoked to me before the man was elected and He said, "if that man gets elected". After that, I did not want to vote, but, God said that I should go and show my support. So, I voted for Macain. God has spoken to me about Obama a couple of times since he was elected. I am thankful that at least I am always listening just incase God wants to reach out and tell me something.
---catherine on 3/12/10


New? Ha! Same old anti-capitalism garbage.
---jerry6593 on 3/12/10


Larry, my information is not errant. Are you trying to say that banks haven't raised rates and fees in response to new Federal regulations? BofA reversed the fee within the past day and it only applies to debit card use.

Frankly, I have no sympathy for people who write bad checks or spend more than they have in their accounts. I think the bank should make the penalty whatever it wants. I don't pay the high interest rates either, but some people have no choice in this economy.

My point, which you always seem to miss, is that every time the government is involved in commerce, the consumer is invariably hurt. Of course, the big government types don't care because it's the good intentions that count, not the results.
---ralph7477 on 3/12/10


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larry -- Individual States are the primary regulators of insurance companies and products. There are, however,
a few federal standards that apply to job-based medical benefits.

States determine which companies can offer insurance in their state and often the choices are few. They set the standards for all types of health insurance products.

Although most states have passed patient protections, other regulations vary by state. The type of disputes and of reviews allowed , fees for review, deadline for filing appeals and selection of external reviewer ... and much more, are all regulated by the states.

If insurance companies could compete across state lines, competition and the benefit thereof would increase.
---Donna66 on 3/11/10


Folks...
if you're argueing between Obamacare vs. insurance you are deceived.

It has absolutely nothing to do with your health or healthcare in general.

Obamcare is only about Power and nothing else. It is the last section of our lives that the government does not yet control and it desperately wants to under Chairman Obama.

If Obama can control you from Cradle to Grave (which is what this 2700pg. bill will allow) then the Marxist will indeed OWN you.

NOTE: He only cares about himself, listen to his speeches. Its all about His Ego even when 3/2 of americans are against this bill.

That is what the debate needs to be about, not Healthcare or health. It is neither!
---John on 3/11/10


Ralph, reduce your stack to one credit card and use it only for travel and other purchases. The large interest rate fees on Credit Cards can be largely regulated by frugal use. On the other hand the nations largest bank, Bank of America, has announced the cessation of overdraft fees and other banks will follow in a free market race to the bottom.
Where you did you obtain such errant information on overdraft fees?
---larry on 3/11/10


Donna66, thanks for the McCain info but no industry (Insurance) is highly regulated with an anti-trust exemption. You can't be both.
True, a trillion dollars for health care is a ton of money, but it pales to the bank bailout, not including paybacks, of 23-trillion. If we can cover bad private investment decisions why not provide some hope for the woman who found a lump in her breast after being laid off from a Casino in Vegas?
Anyway the Senate Parlimentarian tonight said the Health Care bill must pass in the Senate again before Reid can push reconciliation.
This possible and likely death of the bill was ironically first announced by MSNBC not Fox.
The 27-million can sit in the ER's like everyone else - health care solved!
---larry on 3/11/10


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Just for the record: McCain was born on Coco Solo Naval Air Station in the Panama Canal Zone. The Naval Air station is federal property and Panama Canal Zone, at the time, was under control of the United States.
---Donna66 on 3/11/10


Donna66, you are right. Government involvement will produce all kinds of problems and costs to taxpayers will rise, not fall.

A prime example of this are the recent government bank and credit card regulations put in place to supposedly protect consumers from the evil banks. What has resulted? Most of us have gotten notices that our credit card interest rates are going up to 29.99%. Hey that's good news for consumers in tough times. Overdraft and debit card fees have gone up. Stores are no longer allowed extend "no payment" or deferred payment offers on a charge account.

Thanks Federal Govt. for helping. Can't wait for health care.
---ralph7477 on 3/11/10


Obewan -- of course, the possibility of being insured is better than having no insurance. I've been without health insurance and had a life threatening disease (my biggest fear was recovering and not being able to afford to live!)

I'm saying I don't think Obama's bill will be the panacea so many seem to expect. I believe, in practice, it will produce a plethora of problems that no one, least of all Obama, anticipates.
Private health insurance is already the most highly regulated industry we have. I think it's wrong to blame them for everything. The main reason their premiums are sky rocketing is because the cost of medical care is. I think cutting the cost of medical care might be a better place to start.
---Donna66 on 3/11/10


Cluny, I was sarcastically agreeing with you in response to the absurdity of Friendly Blogger.
In October of 2008 and July of 2009, the State of Hawaii in response to the wing nuts verified the birth certificate which is now on line,
The Star Bulletin and competing Advertiser newspapers both produced microfilm announcements from August 4, 1961.
The OBGYN who delivered him confirmed his delivery before he died last February, though there are not enough facts in the world to make a difference to the Birther Movement.
The core of the issue is just not wanting to acknowledge Obama as president. Whatever.
This question always brings out the best and worst of people.
---larry on 3/11/10


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Et reliqua.

McCain, however, was definitely NOT born on US Soil, however.
---Cluny on 3/11/10

McCain is deplorable in Character in similar ways to the balaamic poser....with a difference. He and his family paid their dues with membership fees of laying their lives on the line in military service. The poser...has given nothing, has nothing to offer but, confusion and error at the expense of all.
---Trav on 3/11/10


Question is, should we support Obama's newest health plan? I do not see how we can. We need to build hospitals in Iraq, you need to build schools in Iraq, we need stimulus money to to help other sectors of our society such as the rich bankers, and automakers. Never mind that most other civilized nations(China has national health insurance and she's not what I would call a civilized nation) have national health programs. Here in America we believe in individuality, such as, we pit the sick suffering individual against tightly organized unions. Only we do not use the word unions rather we say American Medical Association. I know people living on Social Security and daily cuss the Social Security system.
---mima on 3/11/10


So don't think private insurance are the only ones to deny coverage or that any government plan will be better.
---Donna66 on 3/11/10

Yes, but surely you must realize that since they both deny coverage at least having the possibility to be insured is far better than no insurance at all.

Last year my insurance company refused to pay for a removal of a polyp from my colon. It cost $3000. The contract said they were supposed to pay for ony colonscopy/polyp removal per year. It could have turned cancerous! The doctor was dunning me, I was in a huge fight, it took months of letters and protests, and then they paid.
---obewan on 3/11/10


Before I became eligible for Medicare, I had to insure myself through an expensive BC/BS "high risk" pool (having had cancer).I was so relieved to turn 65 and get Medicare.
Now I spend hours contacting doctors and laboratories, appealing Lab tests that Medicare denies. I still have to pay sometimes up to $550 per test, While I wait for Medicare's verdict. These are not exotic tests, either. Routine tests that don't precisely fit the diagnosis, blood clotting time tests pre-operatively that Medicare (without medical knowledge) decided I didn't need.
So don't think private insurance are the only ones to deny coverage or that any government plan will be better.
---Donna66 on 3/11/10


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\\Cluny, what part of love your neighbor do we not understand?\\

Et reliqua.

Just what does anything in your posting have to do with what I said--that Obama is NOT an Arab, or that Arab is NOT a synonym for Muslim?

As far as his nationality, his mother was a native born
American citizen, therefore, he is, too, regardless of where he was born.

McCain, however, was definitely NOT born on US Soil, however.
---Cluny on 3/11/10


I agree with elder that it may be too expensive, but (being diabetic) I see it will benefit me... but who will be paying for it? I don't know, but I don't like the idea of some people not being able to get insurance..... but how is that paid for, I'm not sure. BUT can we please shut up about a certain birth
---peter3594 on 3/11/10


What newest bill? There isn't any new bill.
---ralph7477 on 3/11/10


Obama was born in Kenya, a citizen of Indonesia, a Moslem ,and in the US Illegally!
---John on 3/10/10

((((deep sigh))))))
---NurseRobert on 3/10/10


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The ones on here who continue to defend these thugs are not Christian. If that's you then so be it. wayne5363
---wayne on 3/10/10

And you dare claim to be God? You know the heart condition and salvation of others? Then so be it? I am thankful I don't have to share a church pew with "Christians" like you. It might rub off on me and I might start judging my brothers and sisters in Christ who dared to vote for a Democrat.
---obewan on 3/10/10


And since he and G-d do not have a Birth certificate. (sic) I guess he is the Liberal Messiah.

Obama was born in Kenya, a citizen of Indonesia, a Moslem ,and in the US Illegally!(sic)
---John on 3/10/10

We have beaten this to death a number of times on other threads and there has been ZERO proof submitted by people supporting your wild claims.

He DOES have a valid birth certificate according to the powers that be, and he attends a (albeit "liberal") Church and not a mosque.

Have you not learned that lying is a sin?
"Thou shall not bear false witness."
---obewan on 3/10/10


NO!

It is the last area of our lives where we still have "some" freedom. Obama is a Marxist who wants at ALL costs to control us from Cradle to Grave. After this he will make ALL the illegals legal so he can remain in power indefinitely. If not him, his appointed puppet.
Amazing how his bill was initiated in Christmas and will be resurrected in Easter. And since he and G-d do not have a Birth certificate. I guess he is the Liberal Messiah.

Obama was born in Kenya, a citizen of Indonesia, a Moslem ,and in the US Illegally!
---John on 3/10/10


"The current Health System may have Flaws but it better than any thing that has come out of Congress so just leave thing alone."
---Friendly_Blogger
You know this for a fact or do you not ever get sick or plan on getting sick?

They are shooting to eliminate flaws such as:

1.) Denial of coverage for people who are "insured" (like my friend who had a heart attack on a Saturday when they could not approve treatment so they refused payment.

2.) Denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions. I took one pill for a short time within the last 10 years. I was refused coverage by every single company...

3.) How about 40% increases while the CEO earns $24 million a year and co makes billions?
---obewan on 3/10/10


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Cluny, what part of love your neighbor do we not understand? That is not a suggestion but a command. His problem is not with President Obama but with God who sets the times and seasons for Kings.

The Pro-life Caucus (12 Democrats) are correct that we need a health bill but not this one with all of this junk in it, particularly with a giveawy to the
Insurance conglomerates. The horror stories I heard today on C-span from women who were denied health care for pre-existing conditions such as pregnancy are so absurd its shameful. This should not be tolerated.

I have no idea however to resolve this mess. Its immigration on steroids. I will leave the arguing to the pagan idealogues.
---larry on 3/10/10


Well, with this current crowd, it is like this..... If it ain't broke fix it till it is.
I kinda wish we had an Arab President. I hate to see an American do the things to this country that is being done.
This death.... ugh... I mean health care is going to do more harm than good. The majority of Americans don't want this plan, based on what has been revealed to us, yet the push is on. Nasty Nancy has said, "We need to pass this bill in order to understand it." Say what????
---Elder on 3/10/10


Everybody wants health care reform. But it seems unAmerican to FORCE a massive reform that most people don't want. What people understand about this bill, many don't like. And what they don't understand, they mostly don't want. And WHO understands all 2000 some pages?...not even those who are voting.

It's buying a pig in a poke...a VERY expensive pig that will take years of high taxes on the middle class to pay for.

It is pure arrogance to say " After it is passed, people will see how good it is" and "after it passes, we can go back and correct what seems wrong"
---Donna66 on 3/10/10


\\I have never trusted out first Arab American President. \\

Obama is NOT and never was an Arab.
(Obama is not a Muslim, either, btw).

I go to a church that is FILLED with Arab American Christians, some of whom have Arabic as their mother tongue.
---Cluny on 3/10/10

This is true. Although his bloodline is in part through his pater. He can sing a prayer in Arabic.
His name is who he is...but, who is this many named multi-national? By his fruits/laws/politics/friends...past friends we'll know him.
Ask sometime...your Arab friends...if you are still considered an infidel to them?
---Trav on 3/10/10


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nancy pelosie said, lets get this bill passed so we can see what's in it. I have never seen such hypocrisy, out right lies and corruption as is with these people who are making decisions for us in the gov. The ones on here who continue to defend these thugs are not Christian. If that's you then so be it. wayne5363
---wayne on 3/10/10


\\I have never trusted out first Arab American President. \\

Obama is NOT and never was an Arab.

Nor are "Muslim" and "Arab" synonyms. (Obama is not a Muslim, either, btw).

I go to a church that is FILLED with Arab American Christians, some of whom have Arabic as their mother tongue.
---Cluny on 3/10/10


I have never trusted out first Arab American President. And I trust even less the hideous health Care Package that the Democrats are trying to push through before the Easter Congressional recess.

Rake up all those old Acorns in your yard if you have any Oak Trees. Paint the tops white to make a nice turban draw a little face on it with a Sharpie marker and cut out and paste some big Obama ears on it ad send them to the the the Whitehouse with a note.

"The current Health System may have Flaws but it better than any thing that has come out of Congress so just leave thing alone."
---Friendly_Blogger on 3/10/10


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