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Sure Of Your Eternal Salvation

Are you sure of your eternal salvation and why?

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 ---Alan on 3/11/10
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-- Donna66 :

FAITH=SALVATION+WORKS. The works that matter come AFTER we're Saved. -- Donna 3/15/10

Sister, We were sharing "Faith+Works=Salvation" in the Truth that the Good Works God has before ordained we should walk-in, is manifest by Faith BEFORE being Saved unto Salvation, b/c Faith which doesn't manifest these Works is "Dead" .. but still, we're not Saved by these Good Works, but by Grace through Faith which isn't Dead : Lest any man should boast !!

The Works by which Abraham was Justified, was of Faith, when offering Isaac upon the altar : and all he Believed of God by Faith, was counted unto him for Righteousness ... b/c whatsoever is not of Faith is sin.
---ShawnM.T. on 3/17/10


Not John only but us, we also must decrease that He may increase, as He said that the spirit is willing, so is the call to men, that they turn to that desire which is and has for a goal "unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:", even His "mind". As Matthew 22:10 declare, "both bad and good", John called men to bring "good" fruit in their preparation to receive the Lord.
---Nana on 3/16/10


donna66 and kath, i would say we are all on one accord!
---miche3754 on 3/16/10


Miche, yes, we do agree on this subject.
One thing that bothers me though, are those Christians that assume if you believe in eternal security, you see salvation as only "fire insurance"...that you think it is OK to sin...in fact, they know you must be constantly looking for a way to "get by" with sin, even if they know nothing about your life-style!

If you see a Christian who is obviously living a sinful life, (not just by assumption,) he may be new to the faith. In that case you gently teach him. Other "Christians", you don't need to lecture about righteousness (though you may feel more righteous yourself by doing so). It won't penetrate. You need to tell them how to be saved!
---Donna66 on 3/16/10


Faith leads to salvation which leads to good works, all produced by the Holy Spirit convicting, convincing, and counseling us.
---MIchael on 3/16/10




"If there are no works, there is no real faith"

And that is what we are saying too.
So, that means if you don't have the works, are you saved? Probably not.
Does it mean you have faith? Probably not.
Again, you can't have one without the other.
If you have faith with no work- FALSE!
Work with no faith - FALSE!
Faith and work- TRUE!

If you tell a new Christian that they don't have to show faith in Christ's work IN THEM, then that is false salvation.
Christ MUST be working in them to show they are dead to the world. And Christ working in them will show.
---miche3754 on 3/16/10


He taught repentance in preparation for the coming of Jesus. John, though he had doubts later on, saw Jesus as Messiah. BUT he died before Jesus did... and probably did not understand that Jesus, Himself, was the pure Lamb of God, the Perfect Sacrifice for the sins of all.
---Donna66 on 3/15/10

Donna66, great post. I would say john the Baptist taught in preparation of the Kingdom promised to Israel, however when Jesus came on the scene, John said HE must increase, I must decrease...John then saying of Jesus, Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.

The Kingdom will be fulfilled with the return of the RISEN GLORIFIED Christ.
---kathr4453 on 3/16/10


What I am saying is that true faith WILL produce good works because God has ordained it. Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
If there are no works, there is no real faith.

But the scripture nowhere indicates that the sinner must add good works to his faith in order to be saved.
---Donna66 on 3/16/10


Thanks Mima and Kath!
Markv,
The Holy Spirit changes your mind first!That is the conviction of sin and the changing of your mind- repentance.
Repent means to change your mind, Markv.
The Holy Spirit won't give you a new heart till you repent and believe.
It is by the Holy Spirit that God cleans us up.
Again, Markv, you are missing the definition of real salvation by not accepting that man has freewill. Man can deny salvation. They can ignore the conviction of the Holy Spirit.
REAL Eternal salvation = Faith AND works.
The works done by Christ.
---miche3754 on 3/16/10


There is a way that seems right to man, but one must be dressed for the wedding, else be cast out.
---Nana on 3/15/10

More from the book of Nana.

Matt 22:12 "and he said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here without wedding clothes?' And the man was speechless. Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness, in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For many are called, but few are chosen."

Who are the "chosen" and do they have eternal security?
---Mark_Eaton on 3/16/10





Repentance is granted to individuals by God when the Spirit convicts the person of sin. John 16:6 says, "Spirit will come to convict the world of sin."
2 Tim. 2:25,26 says, "...God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the Truth, and they may escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will"
Repentance comes through the Spirit convicting the heart of sin. And begins to change the mind of the believer towards Christ. Sin is in the heart.
"A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good, and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks"
---MarkV. on 3/16/10


I am very impressed with---miche3754 latest answer that includes this statement.
"It seems to me that The Holy Spirit convicts us of our sin, we change our mind(repent) and believe Christ, then Christ comes in and gives us a new heart"
---mima on 3/16/10


Actually Markv,

Repentance is the changing of your mind, not heart.
The changing of the heart happens after you repent(change your mind). And Paul says that you change your actions by the renewing of your mind.
It seems to me that The Holy Spirit convicts us of our sin, we change our mind(repent) and believe Christ, then Christ comes in and gives us a new heart.
When we have that new heart we should have the actions of the Holy Spirit showing through us So, Salvation, true OSAS = Faith AND the works of your faith.
We can't have one without the other. They are useless without each other.
---miche3754 on 3/16/10


Donna66, you've answered very well for the topic of eternal security. Any other explanation to those who don't want others to have security, will never suffice.

Nana, Matthew 8:8 does not say what you posted it says.
And Luke 1:17 in no way speaks against the security of the believer.
Repentance is granted to individuals by God when the Spirit convicts the person of sin. John 16:6 tells us the Spirit will come to convict the world of sin.
2 Tim. 2:25,26 says, "...God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the Truth, and they may escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will"
Repentance comes through the Spirit convicting the heart of sin.
---MarkV. on 3/16/10


Donna66
I think what Nana is saying is what James tells us.
Faith without works is dead faith- not real faith.
If you have real faith then you will have the works of Christ showing in your life. In that way it is a requirement.
I am seeing 2 types of OSAS being taught.
One is true and one is false.
The false one says you can have faith with no works and you are still covered by the blood and sin all you want.
The true one says have faith and let it show. You will see the works of Christ in that person.
So, it is sort of a requirement that Christ is working in your life for salvation.
---miche3754 on 3/16/10


nana -- I in no way said we shouldn't repent!. Repentance is not what I consider a "good work" ( which is an action pleasing to the Lord if done for His glory.) Repentance is an attitude of the heart, that prepares us for faith.

John the Baptist was not a Christian. He was a Jew whose sins were covered (not blotted out), by blood of the sacrifice he himself brought to the temple.

He taught repentance in preparation for the coming of Jesus. John, though he had doubts later on, saw Jesus as Messiah. BUT he died before Jesus did... and probably did not understand that Jesus, Himself, was the pure Lamb of God, the Perfect Sacrifice for the sins of all.
---Donna66 on 3/15/10


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OSAS is lie. And NonDoers are condemned.
---Eloy on 3/16/10


"Works are evidence of salvation, not a requirement to attain it.
The works that matter come AFTER we are saved."
---Donna66 on 3/15/10

Tell that to John the Baptist whom said otherwise, Matthew 8:8: "Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:"
and,
whose mission was, Luke 1:17: "And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."

There is a way that seems right to man, but one must be dressed for the wedding, else be cast out.
---Nana on 3/15/10


Shawn and Pierre --
My formula is different from Pierre's
My formula is:

FAITH=SALVATION+WORKS
(instead of Faith+works=Salvation)

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Rom 4:2-3 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory, but
NOT before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Works are evidence of salvation, not a requirement to attain it.
The works that matter come AFTER we are saved.
---Donna66 on 3/15/10


Miche, I believe you've got it. When you see the evidence along with the Truth of the Power of the cross manifest in one's life, whether they can articulate it or not...

Those who ARE Christs have crucified the flesh....( i guess one could also say, where there is no evidence of the Cross, there is no evidence of Christ. Reason being when we receive Christ we also receive His death at work in us. That's as much HIS WORK as anything else.
---kathr4453 on 3/15/10


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Miche:

Awesome post. Spot on with Scripture:

Rom 8:16-17 "The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him"

We should know beyond a shadow of a doubt because the Spirit tells us so.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/15/10


So is it safe to say that OSAS is true when you have TRUE faith?
That is what I believe anyway.
When your faith is real and it is showing, then you are making your calling and election sure!
Working out your salvation wit fear and trembling.....
Putting the flesh man to death and letting the Spirit Man- JESUS!! have all control.
Those who are doing this we know ARE saved.
---miche3754 on 3/15/10


1Cor 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth, but God that giveth the increase.
Rom 10:13-15a For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent?
God doesn't want lawyers, for He has One Advocate, He wants witnesses.
Prov 14:25a A true witness delivereth souls:
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations, and then shall the end come.
---MIchael on 3/15/10


We have this statement,"Give the gospel and allow the Spirit to do the work of regeneration." I think this statement is very good. I ask you to put flesh on the statement. Please tell me what to say or do to give the Gospel? Just a simple outline will suffice.
---mima on 3/15/10


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Tommy, I agree with your answers very much. Give the gospel and allow the Spirit to do the work of regeneration. The statement that people sell Christ cheap is found in the method's been use today to bring people to Christ without the gospel. But one thing we have to look at is that many have heard the gospel before, and had not made their confession of faith yet. They were not sure but when the call came, that one minute call Donna66 speaks of, whether to accept Christ, at that time they were ready to confess Jesus as Lord.
Donna66 has a good point. We don't know when the Spirit convicts someone. We know many fall away from their confession, because their confession did not come with genuine faith, othewise they would never fall away.
---MarkV. on 3/15/10


It is indeed wonderful that each of us would be responsible for our method of witnessing. Many find my one-on-one confrontation witnessing very distasteful I always astounded that no alternative method is ever offered.
While preaching on the street a man said to me, I do not believe you should be out here doing this. Okay I said, tell me what you think I should be doing and I will start doing it. Silence dead silence.
I would not send you to cut down a forest with a hacksaw yet you insist that I witness without words. How very strange!!!
---mima on 3/15/10


John, I have to agree with your comment to mima about "selling Jesus". He is not a commodity to be hawked on the street corner or to be "sold" door to door. We are to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ to everyone we meet, clearly and without embellishment, and allow the Holy Spirit to do the work of regeneration.
---tommy3007 on 3/15/10



AMEN!!!!! I agree with this 100%.
---kathr4453 on 3/15/10


WOW!!!!
John tell it like it is, Brother. Amen AMEN!!!
See we need more men like that!

God bless you!
---miche3754 on 3/15/10


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John, I have to agree with your comment to mima about "selling Jesus". He is not a commodity to be hawked on the street corner or to be "sold" door to door. We are to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ to everyone we meet, clearly and without embellishment, and allow the Holy Spirit to do the work of regeneration.
---tommy3007 on 3/15/10


Donna66,

This shoddy underhanded technique is an affront to Christ. Statistic nearly 93% fall out within the year. I suspect that those who really converted did so not because of this cheap salesmanship, but in spite of it.

The people who present Christ this way expose that they themselves do not believe They are ashamed and embarrassed of Jesus and try to hide their real intent to convert.

BTW I agree with the rest of your post. I also agree with your Obama posts and hope you are correct in that case of The Death Panels.

.
---John on 3/14/10


John -- How do you know "it is just a phony sales pitch with NO spirit."? Do you know for sure that the "1 minute prayer" is not sincere?
Granted, that prayer should have some follow-up with good teaching and discipling.

This approach to evangelism is not very common any more, because people don't like to be interrupted at whatever they are doing at home. This style doesn't appeal to many Christians, either. (though Mima is very good at it).

Sometimes you run across somebody who is housebound and lonely and needs someone to talk to. They might never have a witness if someone didn't come to their door.
---Donna66 on 3/14/10


---John, it is my desire to be placed at the head of the list of lowlifes that go door-to-door selling Jesus !!!!
---mima on 3/14/


Jesus is not for sale!

Like some carny selling snake oil. He spoke in parables so they will NOT understand him.

Why???
BECAUSE HE IS THE SON OF G-D AND IS THEREFORE A GIFT OF GREAT GREAT VALUE. NOT CHEAP LAUNDRY DETERGENT.

You sell/pimp him like he is a bad medicine, so you sugar coat Him with deceiving tracks or rock and roll music to dupe people. THAT'S INSULTING! Paul never stoop to that!

So you get them say your 1 minute prayer ticket, but they are not saved at all. Why because it is just a phony sales pitch with NO spirit.
---John on 3/14/10


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--Peirr5358 :

THEY WERE SAVED. They had FAITH + WORKS = SALVATION!
The motive for doing good works is very important I believe. ---Pierr5358 on 3/13/10


Brother, Amen ~ And also remember, cast not away your CONFIDENCE of Faith, which has great recompense of reward, that you might receive God's Promise of Eternal Salvation. Heb.10:35

Grace Unto You & Peace Be Multiplied
---Shawn.M.T. on 3/14/10


---John, it is my desire to be placed at the head of the list of lowlifes that go door-to-door selling Jesus !!!!

This is the highest calling that a man can achieve in my opinion. And no man will achieve that high calling except through his acceptance the by Lord Jesus Christ!!!
---mima on 3/14/10


Donna66: Allow me to say that I believe that the GOOD DEEDS are an important element in the total proces of salvation. They DO NOT save us but they take on a important role as
part of a faith which works to express our gratitude for the gift of salvation. Remember both groups in my example did good works.
GR1 did good works TO BE SAVED! They were sure that they would be saved but hey were lost!
GR2 did good works also, BECAUSE THEY WERE SAVED. They had FAITH + WORKS = SALVATION!
The motive for doing good works is very important I believe. Maranatha!
---Pierr5358 on 3/13/10


pierr5358-- I understand your point about salvation... But
you are basing salvation on the good deeds people do. Obviously prophesying and casting out demons doesn't make anyone a Christian. But NEITHER does visiting the prisoner, feeding the hungry, caring for the homeless. There are good people who do such things with humility. But that does not secure their salvation.

Our salvation is based on JESUS alone. HE willingly paid the penalty for our sins on on the cross... because we could never be good enough to merit Heaven. Seeing our sinfulness and trusting Jesus and HIS remedy, is the ONLY basis for SALVATION.

We can't depend on the uncertain value of good works. And, thankfully, WE DON"T NEED TO.
---Donna66 on 3/13/10


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I alway have trouble with the Fundmentals on this.
The belief that you say a 1 minute "sinners prayer" and your life insurance is paid. A very scarry farce.

To recite the infamous James Kennedy mantra "If you die today are you sure you go to heaven" its nothing less that the lowest form of salesmanship. Called in the Trade as FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) used by lowlifes selling scams.

They go door to door selling Jesus like a vacuum cleaners and then YOU (not Jesus) make a decision. HOW ARROGANT this concept is.

Genrally it results in Carnal Christians who do not care one iota about G-d or Jesus. Because they got an automatic "A" so who cares about the guy upstairs.
---John on 3/13/10


To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

Brethren, The Lord shall come as a thief in the night, coming as a surprise to those who were uncertain & draw back or was not tending to the Way : The Just walk by Faith & do not draw back with uncertainty, but shall patiently with confidence receive the reward of His Promise !!!

Therefore cast not away your CONFIDENCE, which has great recompense of reward, through Patience, so after we have done God's Will, we might receive His Promise.

Now if any man draw back, the Lord's Soul shall have no Pleasure in him. But the Just shall Live by Faith, and we are not of them who draw back unto perdition, but of them that Believe to the Saving of the Soul unto Eternal Salvation.
---Shawn.M.T. on 3/13/10


Pierr, here is something that might help in this subject: Four groups:
1. there is people that are not saved and know they are not saved.
2. there is people who are saved but do not know they are saved. Perhaps they are in a state of grace but are wrestling with sin in their lives and doubt their own salvation. These people have not yet made certain that they are among the elect.
3. there are people who are saved and know that they are saved. This group made certain of their election and calling. They have a clear understanding of what salvation requires and know they have met the requirements. They have believed the testimony of the Holy Spirit when He witness to their spirit that they are children of God.
---MarkV. on 3/13/10


Pierr #2:
4. there are people who are not saved but confidently believe that they are saved. These people have assurance of salvation without salvation. Their assurance is a false assurance. How is it possible to have a false assurance? The easiest way to have a false assurance of salvation is to have a false doctrine of salvation. For example, if a person holds to a universal view of salvation they may reason, Every person is saved. I am a person, therefore, I am saved. Because their doctrine is faulty their assurance is faulty.
Facts, taken from the "Essentials of the Christian Faith" by R.C. Sproul. Hope it helps in the discussion.
---MarkV. on 3/13/10


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Eternal salvation is only eternal to those whom keep it, for eternal salvation is lost to those whom choose to backslide into perdition. If you really need something to help you and I give you that something that you lacked, you will recieve it gladly: but there are some whom after receiving the gift will then later forget the good thing that I gave them and go back to not honoring that good thing you were given, and so they are again found lacking: and such it is with eternal salvation, they are given eternal salvation which they have discarded for to have eternal sin in its place.
---Eloy on 3/13/10


Eternal salvation is only eternal to those whom keep it, for eternal salvation is lost to those whom choose to backslide into perdition. If you really need something to help you and I give you that something that you lacked, you will receive it gladly: but there are some whom after receiving the gift will then later forget the good thing that I gave them and go back to not honoring that good thing you were given, and so they are again found lacking: and such it is with eternal salvation, they are given eternal salvation which they have discarded for to have eternal sin in its place.
---Eloy on 3/13/10


THE FLESH WON'T BE RESURRECTED.
---ShawnM.T. on 3/12/10




EXACTLY the Flesh, our old man will not be resurrected:
Did you ever read Colossians 2. We've PUT OFF the body of the sins of the FLESH by the Circumcision of Christ. We are a totally NEW CREATURE in Christ. Everything that had to do with Adam 1 and the old creation is DEAD to us...Colossians 3:1-4. Paul also stating in Galatians 6...nothing matters but the NEW CREATURE.

Jesus didn't come to REMAKE our old man, or put us back the way we were before Adam sinned. That man is of the EARTH...we are begotten sons THROUGH Jesus Christ.
---kathr4453 on 3/13/10


Donna66: Please allow me one more example of the danger to say with certainty that we sre saved.
Peter: Self-confidence led him to believe that he was saved, yet gradually one step at a time he went on a downward path, until he denid his Master. As one of my favorite authors put it: "Never can we put CONFIDENCE IN SELF or feel ...that we are secure against temptation...even when we give ourselves to Christ and know that He accepts us, we are not beyond the reach of temptaton. As the Bible states in Dan,12:10:"
Many shall be purified and made white, and tried" but " only he who endures the trial will receive the crown of lie.: James 1:12.
Donna 66: Thank you for your comments. I appreciate hearing from you.
.
---Pierr5358 on 3/13/10


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Donna66: First let us consider the "I am sure that I am saved" group. They sincerely believe because they have prophesied + cast out demons in the Lord's name. He tells them :"I never knew... you who practiced lawlessness!" They are SELF-CONFIDENT but lost. Group 2, cherished the hope and faith +
served their Master faithfully but unaware of the good they have done. They
ask the Master:"When did we feed you or visit you in prison?" His answer:"Whenever you did it to one of the least among us... enter into the place I have preparefor you" They hope that they will be saved and they WILL BE SAVED! Their advantage: not SELF-CONFIDENT but MEEKNESS and HUMILITY = SALVATION. I
hope that helps!
---Pierr5358 on 3/13/10


MIMA: I respectfully disagree with your interpretation: uncertainty and doubt are not the same.I stand by what I wrote.
---Pierr5358 on 3/12/10


Pierre-- You say:
Salvation will come as a SURPRISE to those who are ultimately saved.

It should not be a surprise, IF you are depending on The shed blood of Jesus for your salvation. THAT is something that has never changed and never will. You either depend on Him for salvation, or you don't. Only you and He, knows if you do.

perdition will be a surprise to many who are sure they are saved, because of their good works, and many will hear the words spoken by Jesus:" I don't know you!"

The ONLY reason it is a surprise for them is that they rely on their uncertain good works to maintain their salvation! They, not the redeemed child of God, have reason to be uncertain about their eternal future.
---Donna66 on 3/12/10


-- Miche : 2

Sister, I agree Paul is talking about the flesh, for which we're killed all the day long for Christ sake & are accounted as sheep for the slaughter : But many are confusing the "Flesh' with the 'Old Man's Nature' which is already Dead & Crucified with Christ, planted together in the likeness of His Resurrection .. Whoever started the dogma of 'Two Natures' in Christ is confusing the issue even more !!

It's the flesh that isn't officially dead, until we in Christ leave this earth, not the old man's nature.

Miche, Once the old man's nature is dead & buried with Christ, there's no resurrecting the old man's nature again, he's only going to be resurrected as the New Man's Nature in Christ.
---ShawnM.T. on 3/12/10


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-- Miche : 1

Rom.7:18, in my flesh dwelleth no good thing: for to Will is present with me.

Sister, It would do us all some good to Understand the Truth about who the 'Old Man' is, he's the Body of our Soul brought with the price of the Blood of Christ, and is now the New Man & temple of the Holy Ghost : the Will that is present. 1 Cor.6:19-20

We as New Creatures have one nature, that of Christ !!

We struggle with sin b/c it's been condemned in the flesh & is an outer hindrance of clothing, that we die to every day, but the FLESH isn't the old man who was crucified with Christ, planted together in the likeness of His Death & Resurrection : THE FLESH WON'T BE RESURRECTED.
---ShawnM.T. on 3/12/10


Miche, I just got Shawn MT's last post and now yours here.

You know, Galatians 5 say..teh fruit of teh Spirit is: and then naes them...and continues stating..AND THOSE WHO ARE CHRISTS HAVE CRUCIFIED THE FLESH.

So we see two places the old man and the flesh are crucified with Christ. I see them as one and the same.

GAlatians 2:20 say and the life we NOW LIVE in the FLESH we live by faith in the only begotten Son who loved me and gave Himself for me.

So our flesh now lives by the FAITH of Christ....which the faith of Christ.

God Bless you Miche ,)
---kathr4453 on 3/12/10


---Pierre5358 you wrote,
"the element of surprise is there and threfore there seems to be some room for uncertainty also."

The element of surprise leaving room for uncertainty that you speak of to be called
doubt. And doubt equals the opposite of security.
---mima on 3/12/10


cluny, thank you for asking your question. The answer is contrary to what you ask, I rather thank God that though I was and still am at times as sinful as any man on earth He is still faithful to accept my confession and repentance of each occurence and forgives me as He promised. I am what I am by the grace of God through His Son Jesus Christ. Does that sound arrogant?
---tommy3007 on 3/12/10


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The only surety is in abiding, John 6:67: "Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?"

Abiding, in the Word of God.

Luke 10:25_28, Luke 18_21, where in verse 20 Jesus said, "Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother." The disobedient will not inherit eternal life and their assurance is empty.
---Nana on 3/12/10


Shawn from your other post, what you need to understand is that as long as you are still walking around in your flesh body, you will have 2 natures.
One flesh which SHOULD be put to death, but we all know that we stumble and sin from time to time. The other the Spirit which is Christ in us and that is the one we strive to live in at all times.
That is why Paul says for us to die DAILY!!!
And this continues until we die for real, Shawn. That is what I am speaking of and what Paul is speaking of.
It is what he is speaking of when he says sow to the Spirit and NOT the flesh because while we breath, we have these 2 natures in us.
---miche3754 on 3/12/10


Tommy: I did not say that you were "arrogant" to be sure that you are saved. I am not afraid either as to wether I am saved or not. I am just not sure and here is why.
Salvation will come as a SURPRISE to those who are ultimatly saved and perdition will be a surprse to many who are sure they are saved, because of their good works, and many will hear the words spoken by Jesus:" I don't know you!" after they will have recited
a litany of things they will have done in connection with their salvation and all will be for naught.
I believe that God is fair in his judgment but you would have to agree that the element of surprise is there and threfore there seems to be some room for uncertainty also.
---Pierre5358 on 3/12/10


anon, I may be wrong, but I see Cluny as stirring the pot making people think. I don't read him as critical, but I may be wrong. It's how I see him. He causes me to smile most the time with his responses.
---Rod4Him on 3/12/10


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Our security should be in in Christ, Who is eternal.

But I wonder how many people look for their security in their own initial act of faith.
---Cluny on 3/11/10

Cluny, there you go being critical again. Why are you worried about what other people do? Isn't God big enough to deal with other people? Or do you think it's your assignment on this earth?

I really think I need to get off this site now because Cluny is very very critical, picks on other's responses and needs the pride knocked out of him. Sheesh!
---anon on 3/12/10


Paul, speaking to those in Christ Jesus in Phillpi, "I am confident of this very thing that He who has started this good work in you will perform it."

God has started it, and He will finish it. He is the author and finisher of our faith.

I know people can quote this verse or that verse. Some of those verses have to do with sanctification rather than salvation.

I trust in the character of God that the sacrifice of Jesus is sufficient. For we all fail at some time, but we are secure in Christ. For there is no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus. I still love those who believe otherwise, but are in Christ.
---Rod4Him on 3/12/10


Catherine your statement,"You must continue in the faith, stable, and steadfast." Would seem to put all the responsibility upon you. Another words your behavior determines your salvation and not the grace and mercy of the Lord Jesus Christ. Is this eternal security?
---mima on 3/12/10


I am in total agreement with Tommy.

Cluny...how do you make it through each day not knowing you have enternal life?
Are you worried about what you must do?
---JIM on 3/12/10


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Yes I am certain of my eternal security!!!

My certainty comes from receiving, accepting, and believing the word of God!

Word of God says,

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." I have called. For me now to deny or doubt my eternal security would be to make God a liar!!!

And therefore I have God's promise concerning my security.
---mima on 3/12/10


\\I am absolutely sure of my salvation,... Praise the Lord!
---tomyy3007 on 3/11/10 \\

And do you thank God that you are not as other men?
cluny,
What did Tommy3007 say that would lead anyone to think he "thanks God he is not like other men?"
---Donna66 on 3/12/10


There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

Some say, there is no God, some Christ was just a man! Are these unsaved?
When a blind man walks toward a cliff, all you can do is tell him. He will stop or fall.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

This is good news!
---TheSeg on 3/12/10


I am only because I asked the Lord, Am I going to make it to heaven? I don't assume anything even though I have a passionate love for Father God, Lord Jesus and Holy Spirit.
I absolutely love to obey His word because I know it pleases Him. I honestly believe I am in a love relationship with God although at times I feel so unworthy, like the Song of Solomon woman, "I am black but comely."

It is not on my righteousness that I stand, it's HIS Righteousness. I am the righteousness of God THROUGH Christ Jesus and the Blood of Jesus redeems me from the curse of the law.
---Donna on 3/12/10


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You must continue in the faith, stable, and steadfast. The most famous verse in the Bible uses a present tense verb that may be translated, "whoever continues believing in Him", may have eternal life [see John 3:16]. A person should ask himself or herself do I today have trust in Christ to forgive my sins and take me without blame into heaven forever? Do I have confidence in my heart that He has saved me? If I were to die tonight and stand before God's judgment seat, and He asked me why He should let me into heaven, would I begin to think of my good deeds and depend on them?
---catherine on 3/12/10


To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

Brethren, I'm steadfast in the Faith of the Lord's Word, confident He's able to make me stand & shall hold me up : given all Power & Authority to keep all that His Father has given unto Him.

He that doubts is damned if he eat, b/c he eats not of Faith : whatsoever is not of Faith is sin. Our assurance of Eternal Salvation is found in God's Grace through Faith !!

The humble confidence of Faith in Christ brought about the phrase Once Saved Always Saved. OSAS wasn't manifested from those who doubt & try to make-up for it by being overly confident, thinking more highly of themselves than they ought, but by those thinking soberly according as God has dealt to every man the measure of Faith.
---Shawn.M.T on 3/12/10


\\I am absolutely sure of my salvation,... Praise the Lord!
---tomyy3007 on 3/11/10 \\

And do you thank God that you are not as other men?
---Cluny on 3/12/10


Excuse me if I sound harsh.
But arrogance, it seems to me, is on the side of those who think they can lose their salvation.

They think their salvation is based on THEIR rightousness...as if Christ's shed blood was good only up to the time they accepted Jesus as Savior.
From there on, the effectiveness of His blood is dependent solely on their own "sinlessness" or repentance...

That would be OK with me, BUT
what bothers me is that their focus seems to be always on the sins of OTHERS, trying to judge if others are "saved" or not...only to find most people, even brothers and sisters in Christ, to be lacking.
---Donna66 on 3/12/10


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John & Pierr, I am so sorry that you are "afraid" of being confident in the Lord or think I am being "arrogant" because of my comments. I intend no arrogance with my statement, but, rather declare my unworthiness of any consideration from God because of my abililties. I have nothing in and of myself to offer God for my salvation, and therefore rest fully on His provision through Jesus Christ. I know that all my efforts are worthless, yet, I do all I can to honor God with my thoughts and intents, believing that He will forgive me when I fall if I confess and repent. 1John 5 tells us that we can KNOW that we have eternal life.
---tommy3007 on 3/12/10


1John 5:13a These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God, that ye may know that ye have eternal life,...
2 Peter 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
Proverbs 14:26 In the fear of the LORD [is] strong confidence: and his children shall have a place of refuge
Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:
2 Timothy 1:12b for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
---MIchael on 3/11/10


I am absolutely sure of my salvation,... Praise the Lord!
---tomyy3007 on 3/11/10

This is fundamentalism arrogance! A simple "sinners prayer" pays the ticket.
The save by grace only crowd who generally have no respect for G-d or his Messiah since they automatically get an "A".

They simply dont care about G-d. Its just Life Insurance. Their interest in church is purely carnal and social. Nothing else. No concept of what Judgment really means and how grace purchase by the Son of G-d is very precious. This attitude makes it cheap. As with the Pharisees its words only no spiritual reverence or fear.
Inwardly they believe that, although all fall short of the glory of G-d, they're about 95% there.
---John on 3/11/10


tommy3007 -- I so agree with you!
I can't speak for anyone else, but I am as sure of my salvation as I am sure that my mother is really my mother. I am just as confident that God, the Father, is MY heavenly father.

If He was not, how could I depend on His Word? How could I speak to Him any time of the day or night? Why would I be miserable if I see I have failed Him?

My salvation depends on the imputed righteousness of Christ. His blood was inexorably shed for that purpose. I can't imagine Him taking it back.
Why would I wonder, "AM I or am I not, saved"?

Like any loving parent, he doesn't disown me for my failures. Instead he disciplines me to draw me closer. He NEVER leaves me.
---Donna66 on 3/11/10


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I believe that there is a danger to being "sure" of ones salvation. It implies Once Saved Always Saved and it can lead to one being overconfident and we know there is no room for that in the Christian experiecne.
So I would humbly hope that my response to God'grace is honest eough that I will be among the remnant but I don't tink it is healthy for me to think that I am surely going to be saved.
---Pierr5358 on 3/11/10


Thier is one thing in beliving, another is knowing without a doubt, their is a differance! Demons believe! Does our Father really desire for all men to be saved? Look at the angels, He created all of them and kept 2/3 to Himself for His glory and let the other 1/3 do as they pleased and they fell with satan. When Jesus said to his 12 the harvest is ready, what do you think He meant by that? I know in Whom I trust!!!
---Ben on 3/11/10


Our security should be in in Christ, Who is eternal.

But I wonder how many people look for their security in their own initial act of faith.
---Cluny on 3/11/10


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