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Explain Genesis 3:20

Explain Genesis 3:20. What does, "...she was the mother of all living." mean?

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 ---Leon on 3/12/10
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Even DNA studies show that all humans are descended from ONE female.
(Chavah to latin Eve)
Just another example of Roman Catholic influence in Protestantism.
---Cluny on 3/12/10

DNA...who do ya trust here? Jury is still out....but, if true, perhaps the father is the partial key. If there were people other than Adam (referring to who Cain joined with). Eves transgression perhaps. Might be in Cains case. I said perhaps. Jury's still out until more discovery or GOD reveals.

You mention Chavah to Latin. Gentile is also a Roman Universal addition. Originally it meant not of Rome. Give it a go Cluny.
---Trav on 4/18/10


Prior to her having children, Adam didn't have a name for his wife, so he just called her "woman"? No, Eve (Life giver) was the mother of ALL living at the time Adam called her "Eve", before they were put out of the Garden, & that's that! :)
---Leon on 4/17/10


such personal attacks.. 2 in a row without discussion of the topic.......
Thank you MarkV, Warwick, and Legends on your input.
Matthew 18:16 But if he will not hear [thee, then] take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
2 Corinthians 13:1 This [is] the third [time] I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established
---MIchael on 4/18/10


Mike & Mark, what a dynamic duo! Well, I guess that settles it guys. Your little gnat straining mutual admiration society has rationalized the truth away & all is well. Incredible!!! :D
---Leon on 4/17/10


Yes MarkV, there is no indication of timeframe between Gen 2 and Gen 3.
Leon would like there to be at least nine months assuming conception was immediate.
You would prefer a more immediate response from Satan, afterall everything was perfect an he probably didn't like that much.
I do not believe in pre-fall children and since we don't know the timeframe, all of our beliefs in this area are taken on faith.
---MIchael on 4/17/10




Michael, I'm in agreement that all living come from Eve. No question about that. But all living came after the curse. It was not until Gen. 2:21 that God took the rib out of Adam to make Eve. So no children up to that point, then verse 24 says therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife" so far there was no children to speak of but what was ordained was that from the time God spoke those words there after the common thing was for man to leave father and mother and be join with wife. Right after that, Chapter 3 starts, with the serpent and Eve. So yes, all children come from Eve but they didn't began coming until after the curse.
---MarkV. on 4/17/10


You guys -- ha!!! :D You strain at a gnat & swallow a camel.
---Leon on 4/17/10


MarkV, I do enjoy your zeal, though sometimes (I think) it gets misguided.
I believe Gen 2:4-25 to be a more detailed recap of the sixth day. This still doesn't negate prefall children, nor does it verify it, but Romans 5:12-14 is evidence toward all living coming from Adam.
I understand you may disagree as well as Leon.
Leon's zeal and conviction of beliefs are strong as well, as should all who follow Christ and rely on the promises of God for salvation.
2Pet 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
---MIchael on 4/17/10


Suppose Adam didn't know what he was talking about?
-Point wasn't challenged last blog.

Time Speculations:
Possibly Cain was married before going to Nod?
-Yes or no, Cain's travel time to Nod and wife's birthdate is speculation.

If Adam/Eve had willfully disobeyed God, would that have been sin not unto death? Why would Adam/Eve not want to be fruitful/multiply?
-The question is moot! One would have to speculate about the exact length of time between the moment after God gave the command to multiply-- up to the second that Adam sinned.
That time period is not given! You have no idea if Adam sinned on the 8th day or not. And 8th would have been before Adam had a chance to obey/disobey command to multiply.
---Legends on 4/17/10


For what it's worth, to whoever has an ear to hear, Gen. 3:20 doesn't say Eve would be or was to become the mother of all living. It plainly says, "she WAS the mother of all living".

"...faith comes by hearing, & hearing by the word of God." (Ro. 10:17)
---Leon on 4/17/10




Leon, Romans 5:12-14 speaks against your theory. What you fail to see is that the first chapter of Genesis is only an outline of creation. Though Gen. 1:28 He says, "Be fruitful and mulitply, fill the earth and subduce it" When this was mentioned the Lord had not even made Eve out of the rib of Adam until Gen. 2:22 and on verse 25 we're told they shall become one. And right away the serpent appears and begins his lies towards Eve. So Romans 5 covers what happens to all of their descendants.
---MarkV. on 4/17/10


Here are some 'in between the lines'
Who here knows if Adam and Eve were in the garden longer than 9 months?
How old was Adam when Cain was conceived? born?
How old was Cain when he was married?
How old was Cain when his firstborn was born?
People don't question Adam and Eve's knowledge to conceive, yet question their knowlege of childbirth?
Isn't all knowledge from God?
God gave them knowledge for language and conception but not childbirth?
What about animal birth suffering?
Is this also from the curse?
Do humans now have greater suffering in childbirth than animals?
I still believe Adam and Eve did not have children before the fall. I believe Cain was the first child based on Gen 1:28,3:16, 4:1,2,25.
---MIchael on 4/17/10


Le'e': Why can't what the Bible says stand as conclusive evidence on it's own? Are we to suppose Adam didn't know what he was talking about? Is it just possible Cain was married before going to Nod? If Adam & Eve had "willfully disobeyed" God, would that have been sin -- not unto death as God had warned them regarding the forbidden tree -- but nonetheless SIN? Why would Adam & Eve not want to be fruitful & multiply? They didn't know how to? God didn't give them the necessary tools? :)

The word of God, as recorded in Scripture (the Bible), confirms (proves) itself & needs no help from any of us. All we need to do is believe what the Bible says line-upon-line...as well as between the lines. (Matt. 13:13-15)
---Leon on 4/17/10


"2 or 3 Witnesses" principle to establish every word as sound doctrine has to come into play here.
Each scriptural witness has to carry some weight that does not contradict the rest of the Bible.
Give weight where it's due.

FACT: Adam clearly named his wife Eve. And the Bible clearly states what the name means, "the mother of all the living.

Can't ignore that!
But... That cannot stand as conclusive evidence on it's own.

SPECULATION:
1)Whether, in Nod, Cain married someone who was pre-fall or post-fall.
2)Pre-fall or post-fall, Whether or not Adam and wife obeyed God's command to multiply.

Speculation is not a weighty scriptural witness that confirms anything as scriptural fact.
---Legends on 4/16/10


"God told them to be fruitful & multiply. It doesn't necessarily mean they [began] to have children right away. If there was pre-fall children before the curse, then we would have a group of people sinless in the world right now descendants of those people." MarkV, 4/16

Your unbiblical speculations...

Romans 5:12-14

---Leon on 4/16/10


Warwick, you have done a great job answering. I for one do not believe that there was pre-fall children just because God told them to be fruitful and multiply. It doesn't necessarily mean they begin to have children right away. If there was children before the curse, then we would have a group of people sinless in the world right now descendants of those people. God could not possibly include them as needing a Savior since they did not sin. Why it would change the whole of Scripture that not all of the desentants of Adam and Eve need the Savior. The whole Bible story would completely change. To speculate is very dangerous.
---MarkV. on 4/16/10


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"On what do you base the idea that there were pre-fall children?" Warwick, 4/14

Genesis 1:27-28
---Leon on 4/15/10


Leon why so annoyed?

I asked for clarification, and apologized for upsetting you.

You wrote "He wasn't somehow looking into the future and predicting Eve would be the 1st mother of all human beings on earth. No! Adam was simply speaking "present tense" (now) of what he knew was an existing reality -- a physical fact. He and Eve were parents of pre-fall (unknown by name to us) children."

I was unsure of your meaning, and asked for an explanation! It did seem to me you were saying Eve is not the ancestor of all humanity. I now understand you do not believe this, but your blog is open to that interpretation.

On what do you base the idea that there were pre-fall children.
---Warwick on 4/14/10


That Eve would bare children and continue to live physically. God promise in verses 15 and 16. Adam's response to God's promise>>>>was to call his wife Eve. because she was the "mother of all living" Hope everyone is having a good day and week.++
---catherine on 4/14/10


I'm willing to believe they were fruitful and multiplied.
How long were they in the garden before they were ousted?
How old were they when Cain was born?
How long between 'be fruitful' and Cain's conception?
There is nothing definitive about them having children before Cain.
Eve is the ancestor of all humans past, present & future.--Leon
Impossible. Adam was living.
I still believe it was all future tense at that time based on the promise and the curse.
'because she was the mother of all living' was past tense when God told Moses.
---MIchael on 4/14/10


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Warwick: I mean no such thing! Eve is the ancestor of all humans past, present & future. Why are you trying to read into my statements things I haven't said nor mean? I'm not annoyed. Like you, I just want to know. :)

I believe A & E did everything God told them to do except when they disobeyed & ate the forbidden fruit. Is it a stretch of the imagination to conclude they were fruitful & multiplied while living in the Garden? The Bible shows they had no problem doing so after being put out of the Garden.

Why is it so hard to believe in pre-fall children? Who were the "every one" Cain was afraid of? (G4:14-15) His mother & father? Younger/older sibblings? Where & when was Cain's wife born? (G4:17)
---Leon on 4/14/10


Her 'conception was being multiplied' i.e. conceiving humans.Mutiplied her sorrow-and pain(emotional pain) yes,but as each one was born(her conception)sinned,it multiplied her pain.
Example: when Cain killed Able.
Many women never experience 'pain' in child birth.Some say it means the cycle,well millions of females do not have a monthly cycle.If it were a 'curse from God' as so many say about "multiplied conception and pain"then ALL would be subject to it.If God cursed all females with birth pain and the cycle how come many get by without this so called curse? Because it does not mean child birth pain and a mo.cycle!
---Howard on 4/13/10


Gen 3:16-17 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception, in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children, and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
'he shall rule over thee', given Adam the authority to name her.
Gen 1:28,2:19
'thou shalt bring forth children':why he name her Eve-'life giver' and why God told Moses she was the mother of all living.
---MIchael on 4/12/10


Leon sorry I annoyed you, I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. To me what you had written was unclear, and I want to understand.

Could you please explain again, in a different way?

It appeared to me you were saying that Eve was only the mother of all living then, inferring (possibly) that all humans today are not her offspring.

I do believe only descendants of Adam and Eve can be saved.

I do not believe there were prefall children.
---Warwick on 4/12/10


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Warwick: I have not said nor do I mean anything of the sort. That's inconsistent with what the Bible teaches as pertains to Adam & Eve. They were certainly the first man & woman God created on earth.

How is it what I've said "seems" that way to you? :) You "seem" to think pre-fall children of A & E had no chance & /or perhaps no need of salvation since they were born before sin entered into the world.

Mike: Okay, God told Moses what Adam said. :) Why would Adam call Eve, i.e., Life-giver (the mother of ALL living) if she hadn't given birth to children & the only humans living at that time were he & she?
---Leon on 4/12/10


Genesis 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.
This is not a quote from Adam. This is God telling Moses what happened and why. Of course it is in past tense.
Genesis 17:5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham, for a father of many nations have I made thee.
This, on the other hand, is a quote from God and is in past tense. (have made)
I still understand Eve not to necessarilly have any children before Adam named her.
I still believe Eve did not based on Adam not knowing Eve again for Cain or Eve baring again for Cain, but for Abel and Seth it was so.
---MIchael on 4/12/10


Leon I am not sure of your meaning however it seems you believe there were/are people who are not of the Adamic line. I believe Scripture says Adam and Eve were the first, and only people created. Therefore we are all descended from them.

Secondly salvation is only offered to Adam's descendants. Surely God would not create humans who had no chance of salvation?
---Warwick on 4/12/10


Mike: First, Adam said Eve "WAS" (then & there) the mother of all living. He wasn't somehow looking into the future & predicting Eve would be the 1st mother of all human beings on earth. No! Adam was simply speaking "present tense" (now) of what he knew was an existing reality -- a physical fact. He & Eve were parents of pre-fall (unknown by name to us) children.

On the other hand, Abraham's situation was vastly different in many regards. Abraham didn't say... God said Abraham "WOULD BE" the father of many nations. That's "future tense".
---Leon on 4/11/10


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I believe that Eve being the mother of all living, is a powerfu ant-Evolution argument, for all Christians. Some years ago scientific mitochondrial research showed that all women on the planet have a common ancestor. I seem to remember scientists referred to her a Mitochondrial Eve. Their little joke!

We are not talking proof here but a level of confirmation as Genesis makes a case that Eve and Adam are the ancestors of all humans.

It also gives support to special creation as it proposes we come from specific individuals, not from a group of nonHumans who became human over some vast period of time.
---Warwick on 4/11/10


The mother of all living means just that.. She was the first mother, all human descendants came from her. There did not have to be any children living at the time.
Gen 17:5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham, for a father of many nations have I made thee.--Abraham had one son, yet God called him a father of many nations.
I have the same understanding with Eve.
Just as the Bible doesn't say Eve was the mother of all potiential living, it also doesn't say Abraham was a father of many potential nations. Along the same lines, it doesn't say in pain Eve was to bring forth more children, just as it doesn't say she again bare Cain, but she did again bare Abel and Adam knew his wife again for Seth.
---MIchael on 4/11/10


"Eve was pregnant when they were driven out of the garden." Mike, 4/9

The Bible doesn't confirm nor deny your claim. But, how do you explain Eve being the mother of ALL, living? Adam didn't say Eve was just the mother of the child she may've been carrying at the time. Adam implied there were already other children of whom she'd birthed.

If what you say is true, Eve wouldn't have yet experienced child birth. So, when God told her she'd have great difficulty thereafter giving birth to children, if she hadn't already had children Eve may very well have responded, "Huh, I don't understand"? But, the Bible indicates Eve understood fully what God said to her.
---Leon on 4/11/10


It was less than a year between the sixth day of creation and when Cain was born.
Eve was pregnant when they were driven out of the garden.
---MIchael on 4/9/10


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Leon, your arguments were very good and everyone did great in answering. The mother of all living was a big point you stated. You and others did a great work going over Genesis. It was very interesting to just listen to all of you. Peace brother
---MarkV. on 3/25/10


Leon,
Peace to you.
In love, I receive your statement that you think I'm ignoring plain Bible "Facts".
I have taken your points into serious consideration and will continue to review/reassess my beliefs as true humility demands of me.

Nevertheless, knowing that Genesis is the genesis of the rest of the Bible, between choosing whether:
a)Adam made a statement of FACTUAL KNOWLEDGE based on the past children he could clearly SEE or:
b)Adam made a statement of FAITH KNOWLEDGE based on the children he was going to have, along with the LIFE(ZOE) dilemna of spiritual DEATH that had overtaken he and his unnamed wife because of disobedience...
I choose to believe Adam repented and stated his FAITH and not his SIGHT!
---Legends on 3/25/10


1/2 2nd submission
There were no men created before Adam. Only God, angels, and man have a Spirit. Men have dominion over all the earth. Forgiveness is offered only to mankind.
There was no creation before the first week, Exodus 20:11, 31:17. Before Adam there was "not a man to til ground", Genesis 2:5. The first and only creation of man / Adam, Genesis 1:27, 2:18-20, 5:1, 3. Adam is different from an animal as he is a living soul, Genesis 2:7. Then Adam became one man and one woman, Genesis 2:22, 5:2, Matthew 19:4, 1Timothy 2:13.
Lionel: Worship Jesus, Matthew 2:2.
---Glenn on 3/25/10


3/24/10
Glen
You must be cometing on wrong topic,your statement makes no sense.
---lionel on 3/24/10


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Larry: Do you really think Adam had some kind of a futuristic notion in mind when He called Eve the mother of all living or was he simply making a statement of fact that Eve was indeed, then & there (at that time), the mother of all of their living children? :)
---Leon on 3/21/10


Leon, I say the later.
---larry on 3/24/10


2/2
Man was given dominion, Genesis 1:26, 28. Excepting themselves, all mankind are their progeny, Genesis 3:20, Acts 17:26. The comparison between the first Adam and the last - Jesus, 1Corinthians 15:21-22, 45-47. In the Universe there is man, and there are animals, 1Corinthians 11:8-9, 12, 15:39. There was no death before Adams sin, and salvation is offered to all men through Jesus, Romans 5:14, 19, 2Corinthians 5:14, Hebrews 2:9-10.
---Glenn on 3/24/10


Le'e': Sorry, but I think you're trying very hard not believe the plainly revealed Bible facts of the matter. If that's your decision, so be it. Peace!!!
---Leon on 3/23/10


Part One:

Futuristic notion or statement of fact?
---Leon on 3/21/10

Leon,
Thanks! This has been an interesting blog.

The BIG reason I deny notions of pre-fall humans has everything to do with my answer to that question you posed to Larry.
Your question links back to the scriptures I originally pointed out in my 1st blog. Please reference them as I state my (a)logical conclusion or (b)speculation based on scripture...
---Legends on 3/22/10


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Part 2:
Adam was either making a statement of FACT:
-Adam Saw pre-fall humans already existing
-THEN Adam Said "Eve" based on Adam's sight. No faith involved here whatsover!

Or:
Adam was imitating his Father making a statement of FAITH responding to fact.

Adam:
1)Saw the dilemna that wife was DEAD G2:17.
2)Stated his Faith before seeing fact.
3)THEN Saw result of his faith(God's Blood Covering sacrifice of an innocent animals' life Gen3:21, THEN the promised multiplication by heirs.

In the example set by Adam's Father, Creator:
-Saw that Darkness was(fact)
-Said "Light Be"(faith)
-THEN God saw the Light(fact) After that, God divided and multiplied Light.(Sun,Moon,Stars)
---Legends on 3/22/10


Lionel: The only "numbers" I know of are recorded in G5:3-5. Far as I know, the Bible doesn't give Adam's exact age when he was put out of the Garden.

I believe A & E were physically superior to us which may account for their longivity. Otherwise, as it was then so it is now, men & women are still "blaming" & getting on each others nerves -- the consequences of sin. :)

I think A & E understood completely how to use their bodies for pleasure & procreation long before falling into sin... Afterall, it was God who told them to, "be fruitful & multiple." That would've been an unreasonable order if He hadn't made them with a physiological desire (sex drive) for sexual activity.
---Leon on 3/21/10


3/21/10
Is it not posible to do the numbers,to determine how old(aprox)Adam was when he left the garden,using the age he was at the birth of seth(Adam 130 at that time)?
Do any of you think there is any difference in the man woman relation(or sexual relation)now and at the time of Adam & Eve?
One more question do you think they did not understand there anatomy untill they left the garden?
When young sometimes old you cant seem to get enough of each others company.
What about Adam & Eve with no one else around?
---lionel on 3/21/10


Elaine: Yes, the unsaved are spiritually dead (degenerated/disconnected from God). In Jesus, alone, there is opportunity for all of humanity (by faith) to become spiritually regenerated/reconnected (made alive) in God.

No, our physical bodies don't define who we are in this world. God has defined who we are. (G1:26-31, 2:7-8) Therefore, we are spirits that live in physical bodies & each of us have an individually unique soul/mind made (designed) to make right life choices according to God's will & purpose.

Could you perhaps be less ethereal & more plain in your explaination of what Adam meant by what he said in G3:20? Thx! :)
---Leon on 3/21/10


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Larry: Do you really think Adam had some kind of a futuristic notion in mind when He called Eve the mother of all living or was he simply making a statement of fact that Eve was indeed, then & there (at that time), the mother of all of their living children? :)
---Leon on 3/21/10


Nothing more than she was the first mother of all humanity.
Someone had to be first.
---larry on 3/20/10


"How long did Adam & Eve live in the garden?" Michael, 3/20

The answer to your question is much less than 130 years. (Genesis 5:3-5)
---Leon on 3/20/10


"mother of all living" suggests "living" as being "alive with Spirit." Doesn't Scripture suggest the unsaved are "dead" in Spirit? We can ascribe the person of Eve as having the physiology necessary to birth other human beings. Eve gave us the form by which we develop our personal concept of self, for doesn't our body define who we are in this world? Do we surmise that when we transcend unto the Heavenly plane, we don't continue to perceive ourselves from our learned perspective?

Time in the body contributes to our sense of self, anchored in the Mind, Will, and Emotions. Consider a dream...don't you still perceive yourself and tackle problems just as you do in the wake state?
---Elaine on 3/20/10


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The idea of pre-fall children is speculation.
How long did Adam and Eve live in the garden?
---MIchael on 3/20/10


Leon, you gave a great answer brother. I have to agree perfectly with your answer. Anyone can speculate, it could be they are right but it could also be they are wrong. Speculation is what most people do when something is not clear in Scripture to them. If it is not in the Bible then what is said by man is not inspired Word of God. It is their opinions, thoughts and what they believe they saw and understood. It can be helpful in someway but it is not the Truth from Scripture. Since we all do not think the same that specalation could have hundreds of meanings. When we do pay attention to the Holy Spirit, the Word becomes clear, and we believe it by faith.
---MarkV. on 3/20/10


3/19/10
Josephus the author of antiquities of the Jews,believe him or not,says that tradition gives him(Adam)33 sons 23 daughters.
Some says that if it is not mention in scripture it is speculation.
Cain is said to known his wife at Nob,when the bible does not mention who or where she(cain's wife)came from.
Do wisdom or speculation,sence every one came from A & E tells it had to be a relitive,even though it is not written in the Bible?
The bible say for certain the Adam had sons and daughters,that are not mention in scripture.
Could it not be posible that pre fall children existed with out being mention.
---lionel on 3/19/10


Very good Lionel. The devil, cares not if we over or undershoot the mark so long as we miss it. But, God has put in each of us the cognitive ability to deductively reason (read between the lines & logically conclude cause & effect). Therefore, we can accurately hit the mark as God intends.

Nothing written in the Bible stands alone. It's all connected, line upon line, precept upon precept. However, can you imagine how volumous the Bible would be if God had to spell out everything verbatim to the satisfaction of naysayers? :) The Lord has designed it so that when we pay attention to the leading of the Holy Spirit, what's written in Scripture will become clear & we'll understand what He wants us to know from the Bible.
---Leon on 3/19/10


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There is a difference between speculation and a logical conclusion. A logical conclusion is definately true, but not in scripture.
speculation has 'ifs' in them.
We can draw reasonable conclusions from speculation, whether or not they are true remains to be discovered.
We can also draw unreasonable conclusions based on misinterpretation.
I believe very little misinterpretation has gone on here, therefore they, whether pre-fall or post-fall, are reasonable conclusions.
How many chilren did Adam have? or was Nob even a city or area back then? are questions that can't be definately answered. They would be guesses or conclusions.(tradition and Josephus').
Cain marrying a relative is a logical conclusion, a truth not in the Bible.
---MIchael on 3/19/10


3/19/10
Josephus the author of antiquities of the Jews,believe him or not,says that tradition gives him(Adam)33 sons 23 daughters.
Some says that if it is not mention in scripture it is speculation.
Cain is said to known his wife at Nob,when the bible does not mention who or where she(cain's wife)came from.
Do wisdom or speculation,sence every one came from A & E tells it had to be a relitive,even though it is not written in the Bible?
The bible say for certain the Adam had sons and daughters,that are not mention in scripture.
Could it not be posible that pre fall children existed with out being mention.
---lionel on 3/19/10


Thanks Le'e'. Peace Mike! Pay attention to/spend time in God's word ALL!!! :)
---Leon on 3/18/10


eve,by hebrew definition means source of life,or mother of all life,thats why she is named eve.
---tom2 on 3/18/10


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Leon,
No problem brother! You explain your stance with a smile and that in no way to me is badgering. I love hearing what others believe whether I agree or disagree. I'm confident in God's love for you and me, right or wrong.
Great point you made on Gen5. Adam had other children after Cain, Abel and Seth.
In reading the scripture, I still don't see any evidence of obedience by A & E to the command of being fruitful and multiplying before Cain and Abel though. The 1st example of "sin of omission". Or is this speculation on my part?
Anyhow, that's my answer to the question you pose so well about them being celebate.
Keep the dots coming... Love them and whether I see the dots... Love you!
---Legends on 3/18/10


Gen 1:28a And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply
Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception, in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children, and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
How much time had lapsed again between these two verses?
Why didn't God say 'more' children?
Did Eve really need to have given birth before God changed childbirth?
Gen 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.
How many children did Eve need to give birth to before Adam could call her Eve?
The answers to all these questions are sheer speculation since the Bible doesn't clarify.
---MIchael on 3/18/10


All humans are descendants of Adam and Eve. He may have made reference to Genesis 3:15 *, and acknowledged that she would be an ancestor of the Messiah Jesus.
* "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed, it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."
---Glenn on 3/18/10


Michael: I can't show you nothing if you won't receive it from what the Bible plainly says.

- God told A & E to be "fruitful & multiply", to have children...
1.) A & E weren't celebate & obeyed God.

- God told Eve in the future she'd have greater difficulty in child bearing, implying she'd already experienced child bearing...
1.) If Eve hadn't had children, her response to God may've been,"Huh?"

- Adam called Eve "the mother of all living", present tense, meaning she had already given birth to children...

- Adam lived 130 years & fathered Seth. So, A & E most definitely lived in the Garden far less than 130 years.

Hope this helps you. :)
---Leon on 3/18/10


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Ok, Leon, This will be interesting, show me where Adam and Eve actually, not theoretically, had pre-fall offspring.
How is asking a question speculating?
Tell me how long you think they lived in the garden and then show me where it says that in the Bible.
If you can't, everything that is said about pre-fall, or post-fall children must be taken by faith.
If you can't prove your point of view and are taking it by faith, how can you accuse others in their faith of their point of view?
---MIchael on 3/18/10


Michael: You're "speculating" (theorizing). I'm saying only what the Bible says. :)
---Leon on 3/18/10


One more thing, continued...

On 3/16, you (Legends) said, "The known lineage of Seth & Cain are very important in scripture to show the need for all sinful men to have a redeemer...the belief in unknown pre-fall lineages from Adam is a breeding ground for speculation about a redeemer's need."

You seem to think if A & E had pre-fall children they wouldn't have been affected by Adam's sin, so therefore not be in need of a Savior? Doesn't the Bible say because of one man's sin all have sinned, so ALL of Adam's children (pre & post-fall) needed a Redeemer?

Finally, regarding lineages, you left one out, Adam's. (G5:1-5) Adam had other unnamed "sons & daughters" after Seth.
---Leon on 3/18/10


Leon, for your theory to be fact, first you must prove by scripture that they lived in the garden more than nine months or prove that they conceived at least nine months prior to leaving the garden. All else is speculation.
Did not they become fruitfull and through Cain and Seth as well as others?
It seems strange that the word 'again' didn't apply to Cain (4:1) but to Able (4:2) and Seth (4:25)
There is ample evidence to show Cain was firstborn.
We are told Adam and Eve only: ate the fruit, eyes were opened, covered themselves, confronted by God, and covered by God.
How much time elapsed between 1:28(be fruitful), 3:20(Eve), and 3:24(driven out)?
There is where speculation abides.
---MIchael on 3/18/10


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Le'e': A speculation is a theory based on one's opinion(s). Again, what I've said isn't speculation, but is based upon what the Bible clearly says & shows. God was there in the beginning & has provided us His record of events in Scripture.

Why, specifically, do you choose to not believe A & E had pre-fall children? Clearly, God introduced & showed Satan as the consummate liar. (G3) Is it a speculative lie to believe A & E weren't celebate in the Garden & they were indeed "fruitful & multiplied" as God had instructed them to do?

I'm just curious friend & don't mean to badger you. :) If you've had your fill of the subject I'll understand.

One more thing, continued...
---Leon on 3/18/10


Leon,
You asked me how I can be so sure Eve had no children whem Adam named her. I answered saying I am not "completely" sure of many many things including the answer to the question of pre-fall children or no? None of us were there in the beginning to be completely sure including me, you or anyone else(The Pastor I included has a well-known nationwide television teaching ministry. Very good teacher but I disagree with views on pre-fall children)
Again, I believe the Cain and Seth lineages are sound doctrine.
Since Satan was a liar from the beginning, we must watch out for false doctrine about the beginning.
Speculation, easy to spot. I see it in the responses.
I'm always open 4U2 show me the dots to follow.
---Legends on 3/17/10


Ionel: I believe Cain & Abel were conceived & born outside of the Garden.

Adam & Eve, before they sinned, lived in the Garden & were able to leave it at will. The "mother of all living (Eve)" most likely had children in the Garden (at home). After, being put out of the Garden, she had no choice but to have her "other" children outside of the Garden. Your question seems to be did Eve have "other" children outside of Garden before she had Cain & Abel. I think it's highly probable. (G4:13-17)

As we study the Bible it's quite apparent when children are mentioned, usually, the male children are the only ones listed by name. Hope this helps! :)

Le'e': Who is Pastor Arnold?
---Leon on 3/17/10


Le'e': I'm not sure I understand what you said or what your point is other than to say you don't believe in pre-fall children of Adam & Eve. I'm not speculating. Rather, what I've said is based on what the Bible says.
---Leon on 3/17/10


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3/16/10
I have heard the arguement on Eve,Adam speculation of children before Cain and Able.
Would that mean that the children mention where born out side the Garden?
If in the Garden,it must have been a long period of time before they (Adam,Eve)were expelled for disobediance.
Was not Cain and Able concieved out side the Garden?

help me see the light here thanks
---ionel on 3/16/10


Leon,
In this life, I am sure that I need air for my lungs, food and water for my belly. I am sure that God cannot lie and He really loves me and you. Add a few more things to that list and that's just about all I'm really absolutely sure about.
Neither I, you, Pastor Arnold nor anyone else with an opinion witnessed the beginning.

What I believe to be greatly uncertain is the notion that there was a lineage of mankind in the very beginning other the lineages of Cain and Seth. The known lineages of Seth and Cain are very important in scripture to show the need for all sinful men to have a redeemer.
I contend that the belief in unknown pre-fall lineages from Adam is a breeding ground for speculation about a redeemer's need.
---Legends on 3/16/10


"There were no children present..." Legends, 3/15

How can you be so sure about that? Didn't God tell Adam & Eve to be "fruitful & multiply"? (G1:27-28) Do you suppose they chose to disobey God & be celebate until after they were put out of the Garden? :)

The thing with Abraham & Sarah is they were well past child bearing age. Not so with Adam & Eve! However, in the case of both couples, faith comes by hearing the word of God. The Bible shows the two pair of mates, for the most part, heard & obeyed God's word.

Conclusion: Adam & Eve had pre-fall children! The Bible is full of people who weren't called by name. Connect the Scriptural dots & we can see them.
---Leon on 3/16/10


Firestorm:
The calling of God is without repentance.

God calls things that be not as though they were.

We walk by faith not by sight.

Thou shalt no longer be called Abram but Abraham for a father of many nations have(past tense) I made thee.

Adam called his wife's name Eve for she was(past tense) the mother of all the living.

The righteous shall LIVE by his faith.

This theme runs from Genesis to Appendix: Eve,Eva,Chavah,Zoe,Life is a name given to Adam's wife by using faith and not his natural senses. There were no children present when Adam called his wife's name Eve in the exact same way that there were no promised nations present when God called Abram Abraham.
---Legends on 3/16/10


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Very astute observation (perceptive understanding) Doug. I agree! However, get ready for the opposition firestorm. :)

The Bible clearly says what it says, doesn't it? All we need do is pay attention to & believe what God says thru His word (the Bible).
---Leon on 3/14/10


I feel as though Eve already had children before Cain and Able due to the fact that vs. 16 says that God would increase her sorrow and her conception -- in sorrow shall you bring forth children. Then in vs. 20 it states that Adam called his wifes name Eve because she WAS the mother of all the living. WAS being past tense. I feel before her sorrows of bringing forth children, it was probably enjoyable and without pain to deliver a child. So this ties in with " Who did Cain take for a wife? I'm sure there were plenty of people reproduced by the time Cain and Able came onto the scene.
---Doug on 3/13/10


Guys (Cluny & Bill): I'm not asking what Eve's name means. Though the two of you have hit the nail on the head with her name, the referenced verse explains itself in that, yes, her name is Eve & she is the mother of all living.

My question has to do with why did Adam call her such just prior to their being expelled from the Garden? Specifically, why would he call her the mother of all living -- "Eve", if she at that point had no children?
---Leon on 3/13/10


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