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Can Women Be Pastors

Where does it say in the Bible that women can be pasters?

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 ---joe on 3/12/10
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1/5 3rd submission
Genesis 1:27, 2:18, 20, 3:1-6, 16-19, Numbers 12, Deuteronomy 22:5.
Genesis 1:27, shows that there is an important distinction between the two genders. Genesis 3:16 (4:7, Eve desired to rule over Adam as sin desired to rule over Cain) demonstrates Gods disapproval of Eve's insubordination to both God and Adam in 3:1-6. The serpent still attempts to attack women with "Yea, hath God said". Numbers 12:10, why did Miriam get leprosy, but not Aaron? Deuteronomy 22:5 (1Corinthians 11), concerns not only clothing, but all things that pertain to the other gender!
---Glenn on 3/18/10


2/5 2nd submission
Isaiah 3:12-4:1(12), 32:9-14, Amos 4:1-4.
Isaiah 3:12-4:1 (12), brings a curse, and have you noticed how many of these pseudo preachers are haughty and luxurious, v. 16. Chapter 32 shows us a type of woman who has no true confidence in God. In Amos, you see domineering women and effeminate men. And the result is to "oppress the poor, which crush the needy". In Amos 4:4, these people are shown to be religious, but God doesnt accept false worship. And the Lord allowed them to grow in their own deception. Psalm 81:12, Ezekiel 44:5-9, Malachi 1:7-8, 10, Matthew 23:32, Romans 1:18-32.
---Glenn on 3/17/10


The ancient Hebrews were often guilty of having a synthetic religion, mixing God's instructions with baal worship, that made for ethically weak effeminate men, and allowed for 'the rise of the monstrous regiment of women'. A blending of Christianity with the woman's liberation movement displeases God, and will destroy society: first, raise the women, second, raise the sodomites, third, cause uncertainty, fourth, destroy the economy.
Athaliah, Eve, Herodias, Jezebel, Jezebel of Revelations 2:20, Maachah, Miriam, Potiphar's wife, Zipporah, Nehemiah 13:26, Isaiah 32:9-13, Zechariah 5:5-11, Acts 13:50, etc.
---Glenn on 3/17/10


Children of the Father:

Paul the Apostle, baptized in the Holy Spirit, after the resurrection of Christ, 30 yrs into the CHURCH AGE, TEACHES:

1Ti 2:11 Let a woman learn in quietness with all subjection.

12 But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness....

14 Adam was not beguiled, but the woman being beguiled hath fallen into transgression:

NO WOMEN TEACHERS, PASTORS, in the church.

Are we keeping the traditions of the church of SAINTS, of the Apostles or traditions of the APOSTATES?

Should we follow the world? The world has their...WAY, WHICH only leads into God's Judgment.
---Paul9594 on 3/17/10


5/5
1Timothy 2:11-12 (8-15). :8 Men = males / aner G435, and "lifting up holy hands" is also a way of saying 'ministering'. Verse 9, rebellious women preachers are the opposite of shamefaced (bashful, modest, reverent) and sober (sound mind). Verses 11-12 are clear (silence with all subjection / silence). :12 "But I" shows that he is in agreement with the Lord. :13-14 means these rules precede the fall and applies to you today, Genesis 3:16 (4:7).
What do most women want? A comfortable nest and a society at peace! But what does rebellion against God and his word get us? Ruined nests, and a cursed disorderly country. Romans 3:8, Galatians 6:7-8, 2Peter 1:20-21.
---Glenn on 3/17/10




4/5
1Corinthians 14:(33) 34-35 (36-38).
Women speaking in the Churches, "silence", "not permitted", "under obedience" (Genesis 2:18, 3:16). :35, Note: most services were held in small homes and so, there was no problem with women shouting across the aisles. ..."shame" G149 aischron: dishonorable, filthy, indecorous, shameful, venal. :37 Do you "acknowledge ...the commandments of the Lord."(?) :38 means we are to reject those who reject Paul's instructions here. Women were not to take on those things that pertained to men include doctrine, preaching, prophesy, psalms, revelation, teaching, tongues and interpretation, which would be to "usurp authority over the man".
---Glenn on 3/17/10


3/5
1Corinthians 11:1-10, 13, 15-16 (Deuteronomy 22:5). :2 "keep the ordinances, as I delivered to you". :3 God, Christ, Man, Woman. A woman who publicly makes prayer or prophesies was said to be uncovered, which dishonors God and men, and brings shame to herself. 11:15 Then, covered long hair represented an honorable woman who submitted to her husband, and did not want to be, or act like, a man. Hetaerae, heathen priestesses, and gangs of female criminals were the only women who violated those norms. :16 .."we have no such custom, neither the churches of God." Is your church Gods' church?
---Glenn on 3/17/10


Mark Eaton...I was not talking about all men. I was being sarcastic! And I was aiming that sarcasim directly at Alan. Personally, I do not believe a woman should be a pastor. And, I am particularly bothered by women who are pastors when they have a husband at home. This is not the role that God set up in the beginning. The churches that I have known who prefer women pastors are usually wanting a mother figure.
---KarenD on 3/17/10


Mark E.,
I am not married because of physical and mental abuse. 6 years of it to be exact.
Before that, my ex husband cheated then divorced me for the woman he cheated on me with.
God had to rebuild my respect for men which he has done.
I know there are Godly men out there, but as I recall, the word tells men to love their wives FIRST then they should get that respect from their wife.
Again, it all starts with the man's actions because woman is the weaker sex, so to speak. The natural order of things, am I correct?
Men are the ones who are to take the first step according to God's word.
---miche3754 on 3/17/10


A man gets respect by his actions, not by being rude obnoxious and blaming everyone else. Men these days have lost respect because of this very thing. (not saying all men just general).
---miche3754 on 3/17/10

I accept that.

But, your husband should get your repect not for his actions, but because you obey God. God did not tell you to respect all men, only your husband, and not only when he deserves it! As you say, most men would not deserve it. But God tells you to respect your husband because it is pleasing to God that you do.

The same goes for men to love their wives. I love my wife. Don't tell her this, but if I loved my wife only when she was deserving of love, it would be a very loveless place where I live.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/17/10




Ralph,
I neglected to tell you that the man I call "dad" was my STEP DAD!!!!! He took care of me & my brother. I was 8 and bro. was 6 when Dad married Momma. They don't make men like him anymore.
Take your women issues elsewhere.

Mark E, you are right, we women have no problem loving.
I have a problem respecting men that make excuses instead of doing their part. Like my son's bio-dad. He does nothing. My daughter's dad died, so can count him.

A man gets respect by his actions, not by being rude obnoxious and blaming everyone else. Men these days have lost respect because of this very thing. (not saying all men just general).
---miche3754 on 3/17/10


//Please STUDY the Torah, so you may enter into the ONLY NEW COVENANT.

YES, for those that do not know Jesus as the Lord, they should study the Torah
as they along with the rest of the OT, bear witness of Christ.

Mt. 5:39 "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life, and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life."

And Jesus continually stated "These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses (the Torah) and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled." Lk. 24:44

Have you come to Christ or are you stuck in somebody's Judaizing religion?
---Lee1538 on 3/17/10


And I need a man to be a good spiritually leader, father to my children, pay my bills, clean the yard, fix my car and let me do all the stuff you are complaining about!
Oh, and I can spoil and most of all LOVE!!!!
---miche3754 on 3/16/10

I love your enthusiasm but God did not tell you women to love your husbands, did He? Women do not need to be told to love, men do, and God told us to love our wives. Women need to give their husbands respect, and this is what God told you to do. Doing so is the key for a woman to receive love back from their man.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/17/10


Miche, your dad took care of HIS family and household. You are looking for a guy to come in and take care of you, kids that aren't his, pay bills that aren't his, clean your yard, fix your car, and whatever else is on your to-do list. Presumably, such a man would also have his own current responsibilities as well.

There would have to be some pretty big incentives for a normal man to voluntarily double his work load and responsibilities for a woman who lays out such a demanding list of requirements.
---ralph7477 on 3/17/10


Miche, you need about 4 men if you expect all that work to be done. I can't imagine why no guy has jumped at the chance to volunteer to do all that for you. It's quite an enticing offer.
---ralph7477 on 3/16/10
My dad did it.
My mom took care of us kids- there were 5 of us.
The problem is men aren't men any more. They are wimps.
Men are supposed to do the things I stated.
If you can't but expect a woman to do all of that and what she is supposed to do, then he is weak.
Who do you think does all that right now with me by myself? ME.
So, if I can do it myself, then why can't a man?
---miche3754 on 3/17/10


"And I need a man to be a good spiritually leader, father to my children, pay my bills, clean the yard, fix my car..."

Miche, you need about 4 men if you expect all that work to be done. I can't imagine why no guy has jumped at the chance to volunteer to do all that for you. It's quite an enticing offer.
---ralph7477 on 3/16/10


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Paul9594 //Please STUDY the Torah, so you may enter into the ONLY NEW COVENANT.

By definition a covenant is a legally binding agreement between 2 parties. It is much like a last will & testament in that a newer version supercedes a former version.

What is not in a existing covenant cannot be binding but only optional.

Through both covenants have much in common, the church (Christians) is not bound by Old Covenant laws.

While the Old Covenant is also Scripture, it is useful in that it pointed to Christ, His ministry and has many valuable life lessons.

But there is sufficient reason to reject your position the New Covenant is simply a renewed old covenant.

Galatians essentially addresses this issue.
---Lee1538 on 3/16/10


In the church of God women have a role and men have a role. However since the men are stepping down from their responsibilities women will have to feed the ones who still require Goats milk (not fully weaned ) BUT The Real men who operate in the rhelms of the God head(very few) who require meat seasoned by the Holy Spirit will be fully fed and furnished, their steps are ordered by God, to feed his sheep until Christ's return!
---Carla on 3/16/10


Lee1538 posts:

Romans 14:4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? ...///

Lee1538:
You must interpret this Scripture within it's context, otherwise you make Paul a fool contradicting himself in his other teaching:

1Cr 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.


5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

Please STUDY the Torah, so that you may enter into the ONLY NEW COVENANT.
---Paul9594 on 3/16/10


Women will continue to be pastors in the various denominations and there is little that denominations that opposed that policy can do about it.

Frankly, I view women pastors as being a threat to the role of men being pastors. They simply do not like the unfair competition.

As to the scripture permiting or not permitting the role of women in the church, it all boils down to what ones own interpretation which is influenced by his own bias and inherited value system.

Each denomination has been given the authority to govern itself and is responsible to God for what their own policies and interpetation of scripture, not to other denominations.
---Lee1538 on 3/16/10


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I understand John, but I was pointing out that your posts do seem to conflict.
Neither are a description of me.
I am just explaining the seeming conflict between Paul utilizing women to do the work that he was telling Timothy women could not do.
If you can't see that, then I pray the Holy Spirit reveals it to you.
Paul called women deaconesses, and teachers of both men and women. I think Timothy had a specific problem going on in the one he was establishing. Thats what I see when I read Paul's writings on this particular subject.
I am not trying to forward some feminist agenda.
Leon thank you I need it and please keep praying!
---miche3754 on 3/16/10


I'll admit I could use a good woman to help me. I'm tired of cooking, cleaning, doing laundry, shopping and walking the dog.
---ralph7477 on 3/16/10

And I need a man to be a good spiritually leader, father to my children, pay my bills, clean the yard, fix my car and let me do all the stuff you are complaining about!
Oh, and I can spoil and most of all LOVE!!!!
---miche3754 on 3/16/10


Can women be pastors?
It was once said by one king,
(A). Hard headed women, soft hearted man, been causing trouble since the world begin. A hard headed women has been a torn on the side of man ever since the world begin.
(B). Adam told Eve, now listen here to me, don't you let me catch you around that apple tree. (look what happened)
(C). Samson told Delilah, loud and clear, keep your cotton picking fingers off my curly hair. (Samson was betrayed)
(D). I heard about a king who was doing swell, until he met that evil Jezebel. (look what happened to the king and what happened to her) A hard headed women has been a thorn on the side of man since the world begin. It's no wonder the spirit of Jezebel is roaming around.
---Bobby-1 on 3/16/10


1Tim 3:12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
1Tim 3:4-5 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity, (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
Jdg 4:8-9 And Barak said unto her, If thou wilt go with me, then I will go: but if thou wilt not go with me, [then] I will not go. And she said, I will surely go with thee: notwithstanding the journey that thou takest shall not be for thine honour, for the LORD shall sell Sisera into the hand of a woman. And Deborah arose, and went with Barak to Kedesh.
---MIchael on 3/16/10


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Donna: God couldn't find a Godly man? Really!:) Was Barak a Godly man?

I suspect God chose Deborah, a female, for no other reason other than He wanted to. (Ro. 2:11)

Miche:) I commend your determination to take up the slack in your home regarding your children. Be steadfast in God's word & trust Him to send you a husband...

It's true, some men " & women" are indolent (lazy). It's also true, some women " & men" are insolent (defiant, presumptious). John's spin on the home & church has nothing to do with pastoring a church. What's done in God's church needs to be done God's way based upon His word alone. Worldly comparisons & opinions have no place in church ministry.
---Leon on 3/16/10


Miche: You assume I speak with a forked tongue because on the one prong I acknowledge women overseers in dire situations (to use the rather apt idiom: needs must when the devil drives), yet on the other prong I uphold the warnings of the female agenda and the need for vigilance against it? The former is not a cure, just a slowing down of the decay, and the latter has to be very much in our minds. My posts are not in conflict. Dismissing what Paul wrote to Timothy {your quote: I don't believe what was written in Timothy towards women is meant for today} in order to promote the usage of women for the sake of raising their numbers, and so there voice, is of the world's spirit and a hallmark of feminine agenda.
---John_II on 3/16/10


Miche:

Would never presume to say that I do not need help.

Just dislike it when ALL men or ALL women are used in posts.

Gotta stand up and be heard.

But thanks for listening
---Mark_Eaton on 3/16/10


KarenD:

It was easy to misunderstand your post. It seemed that you were taking shots at all men, to which I ALWAYS take offence. The world is all about taking away our masculinity and authority and I do not tolerate it anywhere I can have a say.

I am glad to hear you have a great relationship with your man. Thanks for the kind words.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/16/10


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Mark E,
Are you saying you don't get any help from women?
Come on brother, you know that ain't true. ,-)
Lol!
---miche3754 on 3/16/10


Miche, I believe your post was meant for JOHNII. NOT ME (JOHN)
---John on 3/16/10


Miche, on 3/16/10, you wrote "I don't believe what was written in in Timothy towards women is meant for today.

And don't use the "all scripture is good for instruction." When Paul wrote that, he was speaking of the OT.

Miche, this leads me to believe you don't accept or believe any of the letters of instruction Paul wrote to the Churches are applicable in Churches today.
---Rob on 3/16/10


I'll admit I could use a good woman to help me. I'm tired of cooking, cleaning, doing laundry, shopping and walking the dog.
---ralph7477 on 3/16/10


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Mark Eaton...I was not speaking to you. I was speaking to Alan who seems to think that men are helpless. My "man" is not helpless. He is the spiritual head of our home. Although I am his helpmate since we were married, he did very well when he was single. Now we both share in serving the Lord together. God put us together as our talents and gifts from the Lord compliment each other. He is the Pastor and preacher, but I do teach the Adult Sunday School class which includes men.
---KarenD on 3/16/10


Yep! You are so right. Men need all the help they can get. They are helpless without us women to help them. Poor helpless men. What happens to a man who never marries? He is really in trouble and totally confused without someone to help him.
---KarenD on 3/15/10

Please speak for YOUR man, and not for me. I did not presume to speak for you.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/16/10


John you just proved how a man speaks with a forked tongue.
Why do men always have to accuse with the feminist agenda?
Paul says these women helped. What more do you want?
Ask yourself this question, why would Paul give Timothy advice but not use it for himself?
Paul had plenty of female helpers that did everything BUT pastor and overseer.
That is my point.
Look at scripture, there is nothing hidden there. Paul would not go against his own advice unless Timothy was having an issue with the women in HIS congregation. If a pastor is having that problem, then by all means, make the women sit down and shut up.
If not, then do not quench the Spirit.
---miche3754 on 3/16/10


Miche: You have just proved how a woman will presume on the word of God in order to promote the feminine agenda (I am convince that no woman can help herself). Wouldn't it be safer to abide in the literal rather than take a chance on it being anachronistic? Expounding on Scripture is wondrous, but let's not lose sight of the foreground for what we hope to see aback. Furthermore, Paul encouraged the sharing of his letters, so aren't we all the recipients? When all is well, let them teach the younger ladies and the children. Women unchecked in the church will unleash their tongues and their children causing great disruptions. Man, you must tell her to be quiet! You can always sit on the corner of the roof when you both get home [Proverbs 21:9]
---John_II on 3/16/10


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Hey, I just realized I had a typo.
I meant to say "good for instruction".
The truth is women ARE supposed to be helpers.
And keeping the pew warm is NOT helping.

I believe if the Overseer and Pastor ask her to teach, she should. The same with any other labor for Christ. What would Paul have done without the women and men who served and labored with him to spread the Gospel?
It might have died. And guess what? we would not have heard it.
Each has its place. Why the extremists believe women are supposed to be just bench warmers or cooks and cleaners is beyond me. Women weren't put here to serve men. We put here to HELP them.
---miche3754 on 3/16/10


Amen Donna!
I completely agree.
Rob, I understand that some of Juanita teachings you don't agree with but that does not mean she is a Jezebel. There are men teaching that stuff too.
I don't believe what was written in Timothy towards women is meant for today.
And don't use the "all scripture is god for instruction". When Paul wrote that, he was speaking of the OT.
Timothy wrote a letter to Paul asking him how to address specific problems and Paul wrote him back and told him what to do at that time.
If God meant for women to always be silent, he would not have allowed us to be evangelists, prophetesses, teachers, deaconesses.
---miche3754 on 3/16/10


"Women are not to lead men. They are to help men. The Bible is clear. Noone can dispute the validity of God's Word. Noone."
---Alan on 3/14/10

Yep! You are so right. Men need all the help they can get. They are helpless without us women to help them. Poor helpless men. What happens to a man who never marries? He is really in trouble and totally confused without someone to help him.
---KarenD on 3/15/10


//Frankly? I would NEVER, as a woman after God's own heart, want to be a Pastor of anything. It's too hard a job. And I don't have the heart for it.

The pastorate is a calling more than just another vocation that one would chose. Yes, it is a hard job as one has to keep focused on the Lord every moment of every day.

The function of a pastor is to be a spiritual adviser to a congregation (definition).

And one can expect a harsher judgement of those that have been called into the profession.

Pastors also must be teachers -

James 3:1 Not many of you should become teachers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness.
---Lee1538 on 3/15/10


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---John_II on 3/15/10

Amen John, that is what I am talking about.

Leon, brother please see his post.
I being as a single mother don't have a choice but to do what I have to for my children. Am I responsible for the man not obeying? Certainly not. Will I take up the responsibility if I have to? yes, even though I really don't want to.
Hey, I will be the first to tell you I can't stand "wearing the pants" I want a man to come in and just let me be the woman God created me to be, but tell me, where can one find such a Godly husband these days? those are few and far between.
In case you are wondering, I was whipped by God too for trying to really wear the pants, :-)
---miche3754 on 3/15/10


I didn't read all of the responses below because I read a few and saw some bickering.

I know two women who are Pastors and they have serious issues in their lives. They shouldn't be one.

I do NOT believe God wants a woman to Pastor over men. I believe however, since a man isn't available to Him, God hired Deborah to be a Judge over the nation of Israel because back in those days he couldn't find a Godly man.

Frankly? I would NEVER, as a woman after God's own heart, want to be a Pastor of anything. It's too hard a job. And I don't have the heart for it. So there's my two or three cents (inflation).
---Donna on 3/15/10


Miche, I am a person who follows the command found in 2 Timothy 2:14-19, along with the example found in Acts 17:11. I encourage people to do the same because of what is written in 2 Peter Chapter 2.

I have watched Juanita Bynumn several times. She uses the same tactics as the other FALSE TEACHERS. She falls into the catagory of those mentioned in Romans 1:18-32
---Rob on 3/15/10


//It is sin to bare false witness. Women should not be pastors or overseers.

Paul9594 lacks the indwelling Holy Spirit that would immediate tell him that what he is doing is sinful.

But such are those who are steeped in manmade religions which they use as a means of placing judgment on others. We have to forgive him as such people are truly spiritually blind but do not even realize it.

Judaizers are usually very arrogant people always looking to accuse and slander others that do not follow their own created standard.
---Lee1538 on 3/15/10


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Rob,
it means Proud or prideful. Are you trying to say that I am that?
I have no problems at all following a man of God provided he is that. And that is seen by the fruit he produces.
I have seen MORE men fall from their pride than women who labor for Christ.
Brother, a woman can't be a pastor or Overseer. She can evangelize, sing, teach, prophesy or anything else God's tells her.
Do not get mad at Juanita Bynum for doing what God called her to do. It is okay for her to be a prophetess and evangelize.
Brother, open your eyes to the truth.
The Spirit of Jezebel will try to corrupt the Gospel! She will say it alright to fornicate and have false gods and still serve God. Juanita is not trying to do any of these.
---miche3754 on 3/15/10


But men are indolent, Rob, or they are misusing their gifts in the world. Is a mother insolent when she assumes the position of leader because the husband has departed? And if the mother also departs then won't the children have to fend for themselves? It's no different in God's house. Man is of God and so cannot lead Him, woman is of man and the same applies, but what if man is absent or refusing to grow? Then he is no longer in God's order or is still a child. To compound the problem we observe the practices of those outside the church, which is forbidden. So the campaigner also gets into the pulpit, and we succumb to the spirit of the world which teaches no difference in gender bar the genitalia. Thus we harm ourselves [Deut 10:12-13]
---John_II on 3/15/10


Micheeee! See, that's where you're wrong. When you believe women can just take matters into their own hands, apart from what Scripture says, you've crossed the line. It's not okay for a woman to be pastor of a church under no circumstances. Remember, the Bible shows the consequences when women ( & men) have taken matters into their own hands contrary to God's will, i.e., Eve, Sarah...
---Leon on 3/15/10


Miche, the Bible talks about those people who are INSOLENT. Do you know what it means?
---Rob on 3/15/10


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Paul9594 - //Lee1538 and Miche3754 are false prophets who do not believe this prophecty of the Lord but the precepts of men.

what your statement really shows is a judgment and hatred for Christians typical of Judaizers in whom dwells a spirit from the Accuser of the brethren - Rev. 12:10.

Romans 14:4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

When are you going to become obedient to the Word of God?
---Lee1538 on 3/15/10


Paul 9594, what you wrote is a perfect description of JUANITA BYNUMN.
---Rob on 3/14/10

She does not teach fornication!!!!!
She teaches abstinence. Try reading her book "No more sheets". By the Way Gentlemen, Juanita is actually a prophetess and an evangelist. These ARE 2 positions that can be served in by women. She is not a pastor or ever claimed to be.

Paul stop calling me a False Prophet!!!
It is sin to bare false witness. Women should not be pastors or overseers.
NO, I don't think its okay for a woman to be a pastor unless it just can't be helped . If the church is without one its fine for a woman to "pastor" until a man can and is willing to take the position.
---miche3754 on 3/15/10


R4H & Lee: It's always misleading (confusing) when men interpret Scripture. It causes all kinds of schisms (denominational fall-outs, splits on religious views, etc.). The Bible makes it clear we aren't the ones (aren't authorized nor qualified) to interpret Scripture. That's God, the Holy Spirit's place of authority. (Jn. 14:16-17 & 26)

The only thing thats changed in the world is technology. Sinful men & women are the same today as they've always been, i.e., still reaching for & taking hold of things forbidden to them by God's word (in & out of the church-house).
---Leon on 3/14/10


Paul 9594, what you wrote is a perfect description of JUANITA BYNUMN.
---Rob on 3/14/10


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Paul was referring to the Ephesian women. The Ephesian women were uneducated, and not ready to lead. There were several women leaders according to Paul....Priscilla,Phebe,...
---Troy on 3/14/10

TROY YOU NEED TO STUDY!
Priscilla was a leader in Ephesus Church. Unlike your reference to the Dumb woman of Ephesus. She was Highly intelligent and educated. Probably the most educated person in the entire Church. OOOPS!!!
Where did you get this idea? Ephesus had a University and was very sophisticated.

Priscilla trained/educated the Pastor of Ephesus, but...
she did NOT Pastor the church herself. She certainly had the brains, the education,and the credentials to do so, but she did not usurp G-ds will, BUT obeyed G-d.
---John on 3/14/10


It absolutely amazes me how so many people are quick to judge or accuse others and to place a LIMIT on God. No where in the Bible does it say women are not to be Pastors. It says Jesus is the head of the man and the man is the head of the woman. Woman are to submit and men are to love their wives as Christ loves us. Paul did say he would not place a woman as a leader referring to the Ephesian women. The Ephesian women were new Christians and uneducated, and not ready to lead. There were several women leaders according to Paul....Priscilla,Phebe,Mary, Tryphena,Tryphosa,Euodias,and Syntyche. Not to mention Mary Magdalene, Christ's first apostle after He was risen.
---Troy on 3/14/10


And lets face it, traditionally the ancient world was a man's world with much more defined roles for women.
---Lee1538 on 3/14/10

You missed the point.
This is NOT about traditions. It is about the will of G-d only.

The traditions of men are at odds with G-d. We are talking only about the will of G-d. Nothing else applies to this command.
---John on 3/14/10


1 Corinthians 14:34 says it all -Let your women keep silence in the churches for it not permitted to speak -be under obedience as also saith the law
Galatian 3:10 Cursed is evreyone -continue not all things which are written in the book of law
---Richard on 3/14/10


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Is Christ a false prophet prophesying the judgment for Jezebel Spirit, of the end of days?

Rev 2:20 I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication, and she repented not.

22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation...

As you know, we are in the end of days, Jezebels has been on the rise.

Lee1538 and Miche3754 are false prophets who do not believe this prophecty of the Lord but the precepts of men.
---Paul9594 on 3/14/10


Sag //WOMEN's role is to help MEN be LEADERS.

While that may or may not be true, the Bible does speak of women as being both spiritual and political leaders.

Miriam, Deborah, Huldah, Noadiah, Isaiah's wife, Anna, Philips daughters, et al.

While women leadership was uncommon, there apparently was no law against it.

And lets face it, traditionally the ancient world was a man's world with much more defined roles for women.
---Lee1538 on 3/14/10


Women are not to lead men. They are to help men. The Bible is clear. Noone can dispute the validity of God's Word. Noone.
---Alan on 3/14/10


Genesis 29:9, Exodus 2:16, Song of Solomon 1:8.
However the titles in Ephesians 4:11, etc. *1, are in the masculine, and the use here forces you to refer only to males in these leadership positions. God still says no *2! Disagreeing are: Satan, rebels, the unlearned, and wolves *3.
*1 Romans 12:4-8, 1Corinthians 12:4-30, 14:1-40, Ephesians 4:11-16, 1Peter 4:9-11.
*2 Genesis 2:18, 20, 3:16-19 (Eve desires to rule over Adam / 4:7), Numbers 12 (whereat Miriam, not Aaron, gets leprosy), Deuteronomy 22:5, Isaiah 3:12-4:1(12), 32:9-14, Amos 4:1-4, 1Corinthians 11:1-16 (16), 14:33-38 (36-38), 1Timothy 2:8-15.
*3 Genesis 3:1-6, 1Samuel 8:7, Matthew 7:15, Act 20:29, 1Corinthians 10:9-10, 2Timothy 2:15, 3:6-7, 4:3, Hebrews 5:13.
---Glenn on 3/14/10


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As each denomination has its own interpretation of the Scripture and the Denominations today are highly competitive with each other for members, finances, and influence. And as such some feel that they have undue competition from those that permit women to be pastors. And women being in positions held traditionally by men,must exercise a higher level of professionalism than men to be successful.
---Lee1538 on 3/14/10

LEE, THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUTH,

BUT THERE ARE MANY LIES!
---John on 3/14/10


As each denomination has its own interpretation of the Scripture and the culture in which it was created, each has the right to have its own qualifications for the various posts in their church.

And each is accountable to God for what they do but not necessarily to other denominations.

Denominations today are highly competitive with each other for members, finances, and influence. And as such some feel that they have undue competition from those that permit women to be pastors. And women being in positions held traditionally by men,must exercise a higher level of professionalism than men to be successful.
---Lee1538 on 3/14/10


John, "interpret" meaning, "to explain or tell the meaning of. present to understandable terms."

John, maybe it's your writing style, but why make the topic so personal with //How about you don't "interpret" Scripture!//?

And what word should be used when one explains the meaning of a scriptual passage?
---Rod4Him on 3/14/10


I choose to uphold God's plans over being politically correct. Luke 16:13.

Jesus Christ was a MAN. His disciples were MEN. I believe Jesus Christ was setting an example: MEN should be LEADERS. Just as God proclaimed after Adam and Eve sinned.

If MEN accept their God-given roles, they will be the LEADERS they should be. WOMEN will be submissive and help MEN. Ephesians 5.

MEN not being LEADERS, and WOMEN trying to take over leadership, will lead to problems. Examples: Jim & Tammy Bakker and Bill & Hillary Clinton.

The Bible says nothing about WOMEN being pastors. That could be: cultural, spiritual rebellion, or evangelical feminism.

WOMEN's role is to help MEN be LEADERS.
---Sag on 3/14/10


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rod4him,

How about you don't "interpret" Scripture!
---John on 3/14/10


John to KarenD ... "It is obvious you simply hate men"

Ah yes, John, but elsewhere it is clear that KarenD is in love with her wonderful husband.

KarenD is quite right: "Some men would like for the situation to go back to how it was back then"

Why are you men so frightened of women? Maybe you think they will show up our weaknesses and selfishness.
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/14/10


I see an interesting concept brought up in some of these responses. And that is, how do we interpret scripture? Do we interpret using an absolutely strict/literal interpretation? It says what it says and that's it.

Or do we interpret using an "original intent" method? What did the authors mean by what they said?

Or do we use a modern interpretation? What would the authors of scripture have said if they were living in our culture?

The culture was quite chauvinistic at the time scripture was written, and seemly endorced slavery. Were they applying scripture to the world as it was? and as it should be? or do we interpret as we believe it should be to our culture?
---Rod4Him on 3/14/10


During Biblical times wives were considered "property" of men and had little value in the world. Fortunately, this has changed. Some men would like for the situation to go back to how it was back then.
---KarenD on 3/13/10

What relavency does that have to do with G-ds decree. Less ofcourse you consider G-d in error due to him being a Chauvinist pig. Is it your wish to reverse all of history and reinvent the family by cancelling all that G-d has made Holy. Perhaps you are Pro-choice. Or perhaps your eutopia (as stated by many feminist) is a family without fathers. It is obvious you simply hate men.
---John on 3/14/10


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we are all called to be a witness of jesus,women are to be examples to their younger sisters,and teachers for them,men are the spiritual leaders.
---tom2 on 3/14/10


During Biblical times wives were considered "property" of men and had little value in the world. Fortunately, this has changed. Some men would like for the situation to go back to how it was back then.
---KarenD on 3/13/10


RHONDA,

I have always agreed and admired your post. A true woman of God!
---John on 3/13/10


pastors lead and through that leadership also teach as Apostles did

there were never any female Apostles

there are no instructions in Gods Word for females to be pastors and lead ...obviously a pastor leads ALL and women do not lead men in spiritual matters

the god of this WORLD is Satan 2Corin 4:4 and through this WORLD equality of sexes is demanded

many from religious christianity have simply followed the WORLD and ITS god with female pastors

those who follow the WORLD and ITS traditions Mark 7:6-9 follow MENS ideas ...those who follow Truth follow scripture that all point to MEN ONLY as pastors
---Rhonda on 3/13/10


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Obedient women *are* pastoring. 1 Timothy 3:1-10 shows who qualifies to pastor: a *family* man who has been tested in his own home, first, to see if he with his wife has learned how to make their marriage work and bring up their kids to become Christian children. And once he has been proven, at home, to be able to care for people in God's Family caring and sharing way, now he qualifies to be *considered* to be trusted to "take care of the church of God". And his wife has been his helpmate to help him learn this while becoming how God's love matures a man to become "blameless". So, she is part of his pastoring example, "nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)
---Bill_bila5659 on 3/13/10


It has to everything to do with the status of women in the ancient world where women were treated as property unless they were very rich or rulers in their own right.

As such they did not have status and simply were not mention in Net Testament scripture in leadership role. But in Christ the is no difference between Male or Female or Freeman or slave.

In the modern world women perform jobs the same as men. I know may excellent women pastor and some terrible women pastors but the same also applies to me male pastors I know. It has every thing to do with calling, ability and effectiveness.

And may the damnation of YHWH be on the sexual bigots who refuse to recognize this.
---Friendly_Blogger on 3/13/10


The Bible never describes the office of 'pastor' as we know it today. There are other offices listed that can be used, for example the office of 'teaher', where I think are some women generally accepted as teachers, and the office of 'overseer'(the Greek word there is now translated as bishop), where Paul's desciption (husband of one wife) indicates it was expected to be a man.
---peter3594 on 3/13/10


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