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Persuade Women Not To Abort

Do you think we would be more successful in preventing abortion if we tried, in a loving way, to persuade women not TO WANT abortions, instead of making them illegal?

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 ---peter3594 on 3/13/10
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Donna: In the US, is 30s (or even early 40s considered too old?) I'm a bit surprised

My wife and I have asked to adopt a child in Greece, where the limit is 50...

In Greece there are relatively few babies given for adoption [possibly due to more abortions, reason uncertain] many are babies found abandoned somewhere

Your comment to Francis is good, though I fear we may not realize the real burden, even financial, of bearing a baby - but I cannot say
---peter3594 on 5/1/10


-peter3594---
There are many couples in the US who would like to adopt, but are turned down for one reason or another. A couple I know did not marry until their late 30's and were considered too old (hey--MY mother was 40 when she had me). They adopted a toddler from China.
Sometimes the house is "too small" or the parent has a minor disability. Natural born children don't always get "perfect" parents, but adoptive ones are often expected to be. Choosing to support an unwed mother and then adopting the baby avoids such scrutiny but is expensive and somewhat risky (so is having one of your own).
But, sadly, there are not enough adoptive parents for children who likewise are "less than perfect"
---Donna66 on 4/30/10


Francis--
Helping the poor is a requirement for the Christian. I'd like to see churches or Christian organizations provide more (They do pretty well in the "feeding" the poor department). But many feel that the poor are the government's responsibility.

I don't believe poverty is the main cause of abortion. When abortion was illegal we had as much or more poverty, but fewer abortions. I believe moral poverty, is the cause in as many cases as economic poverty. And government programs can't cure that.

That's why I mentioned the many cases where abortion is chosen for other than economic reasons. (I guess you might say addicts are "poor". They spend everything on drugs)
---Donna66 on 4/30/10


Donna66: I'm sure you know more about this that I, as women generally do!

I just entered the idea in the hope that maybe, by understanding pregnant women more, we (all Christians - I might meet a woman who wants an abortion tomorrow!) could have a better understanding of what to say to possibly guide them to God's desire that the baby live - and what they can be offered (foster or adoptive parents are possibly the best solution, as many women just will not be able to take care of the baby).

Do you think in the US there are enough such couples to make a serious reduction in the number of abortions? My wife and I would certaily be in a list of such couples!
---peter3594 on 4/30/10


...Provide the foot(sic), shelter, clothing, healthcare, job opportunities, job training programs, educational opportunities, safe church environment, and clothing that will enable a mother to keep her baby. all are worthy projects.

But they do not necessarily bring "hope" nor convince a woman not to abort her unborn child.
---Donna66 on 4/29/10

Deuteronomy 15:11 For the poor shall never cease out of the land...

Deuteronomy 15:14 Thou shalt furnish him LIBERALLY out of thy flock, and out of thy floor, and out of thy winepress:

Job 5:16 So the poor hath hope, and iniquity stoppeth her mouth.
---francis on 4/30/10




//And my call is that we do all we can, to make circumstances better for those who would have an abortion//

I certainly agree with that. That is a CHRISTIAN solution, not necessarily a LIBERAL one.

...Provide the foot(sic), shelter, clothing, healthcare, job opportunities, job training programs, educational opportunities, safe church environment, and clothing that will enable a mother to keep her baby. all are worthy projects.

But they do not necessarily bring "hope" nor convince a woman not to abort her unborn child.
---Donna66 on 4/29/10


Wel, in general I think we all agree that abortion is not a desire, but is influenced by other circumstances.

And my call is that we do all we can, to make circumstances better for those who would have an abortion.
---francis on 4/29/10


peter3594---No, no argument here. I understand what you are saying... and what you say is frequently the case. But not always.
Unwed mothers often qualify for free health care. But if they decide on adoption, the adoptive parents (if chosen early in pregnancy) will usually pay the medical expenses. For the sake of the baby, they go out of their way to see that the pregnant woman is well cared for medically and otherwise.

I don't mean to come across as a "know it all", but I have spent many years dealing with real people in all sorts of crises, including this one. (Even spent a short time with Planned Parenthood--auagh!-- as required for my degree.)PP assumes every unwed mother wants an abortion, which is sad.
---Donna66 on 4/28/10


Francis--The list of conditions you mention do influence many women. True, women don't generally WANT a surgery or want to KILL a baby.
But there are many reasons she may not want to bear and raise a child. For example:

1)Her life is "perfect" the way it is. She doesn't want the expense or inconvenience of a child.

2)She has a boyfriend or husband who disapproves of her pregnancy (he may be abusive).

3)She may feel her chances for marriage are better if she is childless.

4) She may be an addict and doesn't want
to get "clean".

5) It may interfere with her social life or (illegal) lifestyle.

Sadly, these women know little about love.
There's no quick fix. They need Jesus.
---Donna66 on 4/28/10


I believe that when a woman has to have an abortion, it is not because she wants a medical procedure, or wants to kill a baby.

I believe that it is because she:
1: has no health insurance
2: may lose a career advancement opportunity
3: is unmarried and does not want the soceitial or even worse, church stigma
4: Has not met a life goal, and does not want to put it off.
5: is not making enough money to suprt a child or another child.


I am a believe in the goodness of mothers and mothers to be.

I am not a believer in abortion for abortion sake.
---francis on 4/28/10




Who are you to assume this on behalf of all pregnant women?
It's what you would LIKE to believe (I'd LIKE to believe it too)
---Donna66 on 4/27/10

Then belive1

1 Corinthians 13:7 LOVE: Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
---francis on 4/28/10


Donna66: I cannot say which of the two I am - you may very well be right.....

Not having lived through that event (of being pregnany, or even of my wife being pregnant when we did not want it), I guess I'll have to accept your view, as you know much more.

And about adoption, I should have mentioned that as very viable option

i hope we are not arguing here, because I do very much respect your views
---peter on 4/28/10


Donna66: I have been thinking a bit more about your comment.

When I wrote my comment, the word DIRECTLY was intended to indicate that the abortion was a SOLUTION to a problem that the woman had gotten into.

While adoption is an honorable solution, in the US I am a bit concerned that, if the woman has no medical insurance, even the medical costs incurred during pregnancy and labour may be too high

Maybe churches could offer some assistance there as well?
---peter3594 on 4/28/10


Francis--I do not believe that anyone wants and abortion
You are not an optimist. You are an IDEALIST. So is Peter.
---Donna66 on 4/27/10


Francis--I do not believe that anyone wants and abortion

Who are you to assume this on behalf of all pregnant women?
It's what you would LIKE to believe (I'd LIKE to believe it too)...but that does not make it so.
Or do you have some actual evidence that what you believe is true?

You are not an optimist. You are an IDEALIST.
---Donna66 on 4/27/10


So yes, I agree, extra ways to help the woman be able to care for the baby and to be able to live normally with the baby would be a great way to reduce demand for abortions
---peter on 4/27/10

YES! WE HAVE TWO, CAN WE HAVE ANOTHER?
---francis on 4/27/10


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What if a woman doesn't WANT to KEEP her baby? What if that's why she is seeking an abortion? Offer her food, clothing, education, emotional support...these won't help her, if she DOES NOT WANT THE CHILD. Don't fool yourselves into thinking that all women would keep their baby if they were able. Some are capable of caring for a child, but do not want to!
Adoption is a viable and honorable option and should be presented as such.
---Donna66 on 4/27/10


Francis: yes, I agree that no woman DIRECTLY wants an abortion.... she is just too worried about whether she will be able to take care of the baby, or perhaps (if she is doing too many other things) that her life will be changed too much by a baby

So yes, I agree, extra ways to help the woman be able to care for the baby and to be able to live normally with the baby would be a great way to reduce demand for abortions
---peter on 4/27/10


I am an optimist.

I do not believe that anyone wants and abortion.

What people want is to be able to care foor themself and thier unborn child.

What people want is to get a better job.

What people want is to get a better education.

What people want is not to have to stand infront of a church and confes that they are pregnant.

Sometimes being pregnant can conflict with these goals.

Our Job as christians is to provide the resources which will give people hope.
Provide the foot, shelter, clothing, healthcare, job opportunities, job training programs, educational opportunities, safe church environment, and clothing that will enable a mother to keep her baby.

We must be LIBERALS
---francis on 4/27/10


I see now that maybe I phrased the question a bit incorrectly!

Maybe it should have been: not to want abortions AS WELL AS making them illegal

Christians should [naturally] not even want an abortion. What about the others?
---peter3594 on 4/23/10


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A BIG YES to the question

Here are my list of ways to help women not to have abortions:

A: Increase funding for Government housing,
Goivernment healthcare, Government
financial aide, All government
programs that help support those who are
financially incapable at this time.

B: Before anyone has an abortion they MUST
see the untrasound, hear the heart beat,
and sign thatthey understand this is alive

C: Stop making unwedmothers in the church
feel like second class citizens.

D: Stop penalizing women for taking time
off from work to have babies.
---FRANCIS on 4/23/10


Peter - making abortions illegal is the pagan way of controlling fetal murder among evil unbelievers.

Obedient Christians live on higher ground and know that God had a plan for our lives before we were formed in our mother's womb, and before our mother was formed in your grandmother's womb. In other words we but out!

Our response is to pray the women are persuaded. For we know from John 17 no one comes to the Son except by the Father.
HE does the persuading.

So to answer your question, its both.

God bless.
---larry on 4/20/10


Show me where I have been wrong. Have you been bought by His Blood?
---catherine on 4/20/10


\\I have been called to preach hell and judgments.
God is making me so different, just like He promised ME. Good day.
---catherine on 4/20/10 \\

God told me to tell you He never told you any such thing, and you're living in spiritual delusion.

\\I believe that I'll just quote what Jesus said to me the other night, "well, thank you for being so SELF-RIGHTEOUS!\\

We've been telling you that for months now.
---Cluny on 4/20/10


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I have been called to preach hell and judgments.
God is making me so different, just like He promised ME. Good day.
---catherine on 4/20/10

Your showing to be different. Different than scripture witnesses. I couldn't find where you verified anything with scripture. Your preaching is......not authorized by any witness of GOD. Your fervor is, of your own interpretation...also not witnessed by anything witnessed.
Proverbs 31:30
Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the LORD, she shall be praised.
---Trav on 4/20/10


Betty, I think that for most people, the reason for going to hell will not be THAT - hell is for those who reject God.

If you want to argue for that, that is very good - but the people you should be arguing with are those who want an abortion - if you can offer to be the foster mother of their baby, perhaps they would not get an abortion?
---James on 4/19/10


catherine- Jesus Christ knows abortion for what it is- murder. He would never condone it. I don't think you heard from Him. It is ultimately up to the expectant mother not to commit that sin of murder, and if she does, woe be unto her. Unborn babies need to be protected from the threat of abortion & grown people involved in abortion need to be aware that they can go to hell for killing helpless babies.
---Betty on 4/19/10


I believe that I'll just quote what Jesus said to me the other night, "well, thank you for being so SELF-RIGHTEOUS! Wow, did God's very own words coming straight out of His Holy mouth to me face to face quickened me. Hallelujah. And Amen.
---catherine on 4/18/10


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Catherine-- Pretty irritating for a true Christian to go around acting like holy ghost junior.

Yes, especially when many people have no idea who the Holy Ghost is or who God is. Those who abort babies KNOW it is "immoral", but you see, they don't care. Their need to get rid of that fetus is stronger for them than "morality".

They must SEE, somehow, that the fetus in the womb is a baby, just like all the cute lovable babies they see or know. Many have pretty compelling reasons for not wanting that child! They don't have to keep it to raise. Many infertile couples would welcome that baby with open arms.

No point telling a woman not to abort without giving her some alternative that she can live with.
---Donna66 on 4/18/10


Carla: as a Christian I agree with you. BUT - we must remember that many people do not accept that abortion IS murder - unbeleivers. Thus, to tell them they must not, we must explain that it IS murder.
---peter on 4/18/10


Thou shalt not Murder, therefore you will have to make your mind up where (which it does not) in the bible say: thou shalt murder!

EASY!
---Carla on 4/17/10


Amen to that Catherine! I soooo totally agree with you!
---Mary on 4/17/10


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To be Christ-like, is, not being a busy-body. We are to serve God, this does not mean telling people what to do. Pretty irritating for a true Christian to go around acting like holy ghost junior.
---catherine on 4/16/10


No. We should try to educate & convince them morally and physically that abortion is wrong, but abortion should be illegal, also. Innocent, defenseless babies die while mothers-to-be struggle with decisions & some finally make the wrong one. #1: Protect the babies.
---Betty on 4/16/10


Nurse Robert-- I'm not so sure most abortions were done in dirty back alleys.
Though many were.
Our hospital regularly did "therapeuduc abortions", often for rather questionable reasons. Doctors just across the border in Mexico had clean abortion clinics and had almost more business than they could handle.
---Donna66 on 3/31/10


Do you think more abortions occurred prior to Roe v. Wade or since? It's clear that there were fewer abortions when it was illegal.
---ralph7477 on 3/14/10

Probably, but since most were done in back alleys, dirty basements or even on the kitchen table, we will never know, will we Ralph. Unless of course, you have proof of this.
---NurseRobert on 3/31/10


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On the subject of abortions. Try to make your answers as short as possible, then asked them is there anything else I can help you with today? If not, we will conclude this meeting today.
---catherine on 3/31/10


I do not believe in being this righteous self. [self righteous]. We know how God feels about abortions. We also know that God gives you the right to go to hell if that is what you want to do. I believe if an individual comes to a woman or a man of God for advice, we should tell them the best way that we can how God feels about this or any other subject. You have done your job, now it's up to the individual. I do not feel as if we need to pull all the Bibles out and start quoting scriptures. I was lost for many years, i would not had liked that, and I never would have returned to that person for advice again. I believe that this is most definitely in obedience to our Lord, and that is all that counts.
---catherine on 3/31/10


yes, Robyn preventing abortions through educating men and women, boys and girls to respect their bodies more..

Maybe young men, as well as women, should get to view an active fetus in the uterus.
Let them see how EARLY it looks like a BABY!
Show them the stages of pre-natal development. It's really quite fascinating. Then maybe they wouldn't be so unconcerned about the consequences of their acts or so likely to leave contraception up to the females alone.
---Donna66 on 3/30/10


Robyn said:They can be attractive and sexy...... Education is the key. I think.
---Robyn on 3/24/10

I no thinx's i knows.

Sexy is not a option it's the state of ungodly mind, sex-y is not 'Christ like' moderate,respectful and with sobriety is. What determines this the fact that men are not glaring down in your dress sense and commenting with lust, wading along like Dolly Parton lol!!!.

If you can't wear it to church then should you be wearing out in public, However I'm not talking about swim suits on a beach without a wrap before the fashion police get started!
---Carla on 3/27/10


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We would be more successful at preventing abortions through educating men and women, boys and girls to respect their bodies more. Not to be so quick to bed with anyone that comes along. Also teach them how to be obedient to the word of God. If you are not married, you need to restrain yourself(sexually) and find other outlets for your sexual energy. Girls need to know they do not need a man to validate them. They can be attractive and sexy and not have to bed down with a man to get him to respect and love them. Some men have issues as well, with their masculinity. They have a sick need to prove they can get any woman they see, in bed. Education is the key. I think.
---Robyn on 3/24/10


The hidden meaning of abortion is legal mass murder without Christ in these women lives they are capable of doing just about anything, I'm sorry for those lost lives although I believe we serve a just God and only he knows what happens to every soul after death as only he should!
---Carla on 3/16/10


Persuasion and the law making abortion illegal will both contribute to minimizing abortions. There are some persons that persuasion will be enough for and there are those that persuasion will not affect except the law makes it illegal. It will help people to think a little bit more about what they are doing before getting pregnant. Imagine if you who wrote this question and your responders have been aborted, definitely there is nothing nice about that.
---Adetunji on 3/16/10


Peter, I don't know what there is to be nervous about. Do laws against any other kind of killing make you nervous? There are laws against killing cats and dogs. The fact that there is so much resistance against killing infants just demonstrates the moral vacuum of those who do resist something that should be so clear and basic.

Changing hearts is good and produces fruit. Laws are not self enforcing. People break laws every day. However, there still needs to be a benchmark from which to work and legal abortion is not that benchmark.
---ralph7477 on 3/16/10


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Ralph, I agree with what you say, especially about the 'more since it was legal' (of course, now it is seen as a means of contraception by some), but I remain a bit nervous about how much force we put behind the efforts to make it illegal. Maybe, if we could reduce the demand more, there would be fewer people who felt it should be legal, so our legal attempts would not raise so much resistance
---peter3594 on 3/16/10


Yes we should, but how is the question?

I volunteered at a center that counselled teenagers who were pregnant.

We used Psalm 139 as our model.

We told them they were fearfully and wonderfully made and so was the baby inside of them.

We succeeded in almost every teenager and they gave the baby up for adoption versus killing it in the womb.
---Donna on 3/15/10


Sure. People underestimate the power of suggestion. You could talk to someone, and then leave them alone, and then every now and then tell them little facts or tidbits that would be interesting, that would linger in their minds, like did you know that....etc.
---amand6348 on 3/14/10


The approach you describe is what happens every day in Christian crisis pregnancy centers.

With that in mind, of course abortion should be illegal. That is fundamental. Do you think more abortions occurred prior to Roe v. Wade or since? It's clear that there were fewer abortions when it was illegal.

The laws that a society enacts are a reflection of its values. Our elected representatives are trying to make it illegal for anybody to be without health insurance. Yet those same people want to keep it perfectly legal for a mother to be able to kill her baby if she so chooses. I question the character of anybody who sees nothing wrong with this picture.
---ralph7477 on 3/14/10


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If we would put more effort into teaching and living the laws of God, we would find less occasion to need laws against abortion or murder, etc. Instead we have eased our focus on the commands of God and tried to make the message more "appealing" to people by not insulting their intelligence and what do we have? Abortion, divorce, mured, and wars. Welcome to the life of "liberty".
---tommy7376 on 3/14/10


Perhaps there should be a law that any woman considering abortion must view the moving fetus on a sonogram. At least that would be nice. If they ate too early in their pregnancy for this, maybe they could view a good clear sonogram on file.

I'd rather see that than making abortion illegal.
---Donna66 on 3/13/10


"No law can make people love."

But we do need laws that show what is right and what is wrong. And laws help give us power to stop the killing of unborn people.

So, yes, we do need laws against abortion, but we do well to get women not to want abortions. We need to help women to love their unborn, and try to get political leaders to care about defending our unborn American citizens.

I suppose you could ask if we should persuade pedophile predators not to want to violate kids, instead of making predation illegal. But there are people who want to violate kids. So, we have laws to help to stop people from violating children who have been born and who have not been born.
---Bill_bila5659 on 3/13/10


Right on Peter! :) You have the right idea, brother.
---Mary on 3/13/10


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