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How Do Celebrate St. Patrick's Day

How will you be celebrating Saint Patrick's Day?

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 ---Macky on 3/15/10
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\\The saint/angels are not bound by natural laws, so the answer it yes, they are omniscient and/or omnipresent?\\

The conclusion you draw does not follow from your premise.

In other words, you're giving a totally erroneous "if/then" statement.

Those in heaven are NOT bound to the natural laws of earth because they have transcended them and a totally different technology (for lack of a better word) exists in heaven.

So saying the are omnicient and ubiquitous is foolish.
---Cluny on 4/13/10


OK Iggy, so let me get this straight. The saint/angels are not bound by natural laws, so the answer it yes, they are omniscient and/or omnipresent? If they hear our pleads by God's grace are you saying that God is like a switchboard operator and if we want to talk to St. Patrick then God patches us through to the appropriate saint? And how do you specify which angel you want, or is it just a general call to any angel? Do only church approved saints get this special service or can any generic dead Christian hear our pleads?

And Cluny, I've found that giving B/C/V is usually pointless in these blogs, as people see what they want to see in Scripture. Ex: I have no clue what Heb. 12:12 has to do with anything Iggy was trying to say.
---ralph7477 on 3/20/10


Ralphy,

God has forbidden necromantic practice of conjuring up spirits. Read Deut. 18:10-15.

God said one is not to conjure the dead for purposes of gaining information, one is to look to Gods prophets instead. That is what contacting the dead means, and we do not do that.

You will to do well to ponder these Scriptures: Revelation 4:4, 10, 11, 5:8-10, 13, 6:9-11, 7:9-12 and Hebrews 12:12.

As far as the Saints/Angels, they are in a different state that we are now. They are not bound by natural laws and is by the grace of God that they can hear our pleads.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 3/19/10


So Iggy, if you do not contact the dead, how do you ask these saints for intercession? These people have indeed died haven't they?

How do you know that saints or angels can even hear you? If you and I are seeking intercession of St. Patrick at the same time in different parts of the world, which one is he listening to? Or are saints and angels omnipresent and omniscient just like God?
---ralph7477 on 3/19/10


\\Scripture forbids contacting the dead and/or praying to anyone or anything but God.\\

Give book, chapter, and verse that says this, and I will give book, chapter, and verse where the Bible itself does so.
---Cluny on 3/19/10




Ralph,

Everyone knows where your irrationality leads.

"Jesus never instructed anybody to brush their teeth or eat broccoli, but God doesn't forbid these practices either."

Which is my point. Listen, I didn't went that route. If you want to condemn asking Saints/Angels in heaven to pray for us just because Jesus never taught it, then using the SAME "logic", we can't eat broccoli.

"Hey, do as you please. If traditions supersede the Word of God for you, that's your choice."

But Ralphy, the Apostolic Traditions lay down by the Apostles, and preserve by there successors are indeed the word of God (2 Thes 2:15, 3:6, 2 Tim. 2:2, etc).

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 3/19/10


"Further, the God forbids witchcraft, sorcery and occult practices as defined by attempts to contact the dead." (Ralph)

Which we DO NOT do! What God has forbidden is necromantic practice of conjuring up spirits. Read Deut. 18:10-15.

God said one is not to conjure the dead for purposes of gaining information, one is to look to Gods prophets instead.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 3/19/10


What do you guys have a handbook or something with standard responses? Is that your answer... computers?

Jesus never instructed anybody to brush their teeth or eat broccoli, but God doesn't forbid these practices either. As I pointed out, and which was ignored, Scripture forbids contacting the dead and/or praying to anyone or anything but God. I don't recall Jesus forbidding anybody from going to a seance or playing with a Ouija board. Do you guys condone those practices for Christians?

Hey, do as you please. If traditions supersede the Word of God for you, that's your choice.
---ralph7477 on 3/19/10


Ralph-

But Ralphy, Jesus never taught we should be on a computer, or to watch television, etc. Did he? You think that is silly Ralph? It wasn't me who went that route. I am just going where your irrationality leads......condemn one, condemn the others.

You will to do well to ponder these Scriptures: Revelation 4:4, 10, 11, 5:8-10, 13, 6:9-11, 7:9-12 and Hebrews 12:12.

The first generations of Christians and all the Apostolic Churches today in the East believe in the intercession of the Saints & Angels in heaven, and never stop asking for there intercessions.

Don't you follow the Traditions lay down by the Apostles, and preserve by there successors (2 Thes 2:15, 3:6, 2 Tim. 2:2, etc)?

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 3/19/10


\\Being alive with God after earthly death is not the issue. I find no instances where Jesus taught that we were to pray to, make request from, or attempt to communicate in any way with those who have died.\\

But it indeed IS the issue.

Where did Jesus teach us to use computers, if you're going to take that tact? Be consistent, Ralph.
---Cluny on 3/18/10




Being alive with God after earthly death is not the issue. I find no instances where Jesus taught that we were to pray to, make request from, or attempt to communicate in any way with those who have died.

Rather, Jesus taught us how to pray: "Our Father,..." If you can point to any Biblical teachings which instruct Christians to speak to those who have died, please share, as well as any biblical teachings that show dead people being able to hear us, or more importantly, hear and act on the millions of simultaneous requests made by people worldwide. Are the dead omniscient and omnipresent?

Further, the God forbids witchcraft, sorcery and occult practices as defined by attempts to contact the dead.
---ralph7477 on 3/18/10


\\Living Christian friends, not dead ones.
---ralph7477 on 3/18/10\\

Look up "Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob" in a computer Bible (easiest way--there are several on line), and see that Jesus Himself speaks of them as being still alive! "God is not the god of the dead, but the God of the living."

If He can say they are alive, we can, too, and act accordingly.

Or are you saying you don't believe Jesus?
---Cluny on 3/18/10


"In exactly the same way you ask your Christian friends, whom you consider saints, to pray for you."

Living Christian friends, not dead ones.
---ralph7477 on 3/18/10


Karen D.

Western Christianity (in the eyes of Roman Catholicism) and Eastern Christianity are two very different worlds. Outlining the major differences between Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy will take several posts, so I am going to tell to you to "google" "Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism" and click on the first link. Father Michael Azkoul outlined the differences. There is also some articles in the Orthodox Church in America website dealing with our relations with the Roman Catholic Church.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 3/18/10


Ignatius...Thank you. That's what I wanted to know. Basically, what is the major differences between Catholicism and Orthodoxy? We hear so much about Catholics, but understand little about Orthodoxy.
---KarenD on 3/18/10


\\Personally, I don't "celebrate" any dead people\\

So, Karen, are you saying that you WILL "celebrate dead people" if it's for a secular purpose, but not if you're thankful for their work for Christ?
---Cluny on 3/17/10


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Kontakion (Tone 4):
From slavery you escaped to freedom in Christ's service:
He sent you to deliver Ireland from the devil's bondage.
You planted the Word of the Gospel in pagan hearts.
In your journeys and hardships you rivaled the Apostle Paul!
Having received the reward for your labors in heaven,
Never cease to pray for the flock you have gathered on earth,
Holy bishop Patrick!

Let us celebrate St. Patrick's day not with drunkness and immoral acts, but with solemn prayers/hymns and honor his life, works, and legacy. He was a light to those who was in darkness, and through his labored the pagan demons was destroyed. Let us not cease to celebrate his memory.


In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 3/17/10


"What I am asking is if these "Saints" are prayed to in the Orthodox churches as in the Catholic church!" (Karen)

We, along with the rest of the Eastern Churches, believe in the intercession of those who have fallen asleep in the Lord as well as Holy Angels. We believe this from Holy Tradition (I.e., Holy Scriptures, the Early Liturgies, the witness of the Fathers, burial grounds of the Early Christians, etc). Thereby, we ask for their prayers (intercession) for we know that there are closer to God, and are not separated from the Church. So in the Divine Liturgy and other services, we seek there intercession.

The Early Church did the same.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 3/17/10


You know, someone remarked to me, "When I was a child, it was SAINT Valentine's Day. Now, it's just Valentine's day. When it will become simply Paddy's Day?"

In the last 30 years, I've seen St. Patrick's Day become an artificial holiday, something like a mild springtime (actually, late winter) Hallowe'en (which, when I was in school, had the apostrophe).
---Cluny on 3/17/10


\\What I am asking is if these "Saints" are prayed to in the Orthodox churches as in the Catholic church!\\

In exactly the same way you ask your Christian friends, whom you consider saints, to pray for you.
---Cluny on 3/17/10


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What I am asking is if these "Saints" are prayed to in the Orthodox churches as in the Catholic church! Thank you for answering. Enquiring minds want to know. LOL
---KarenD on 3/17/10


My mother was very very Irish! Her people came from Ireland and she was very proud of that fact. I remember as a child my mother pinning a strip of green on my clothes if I did not have anything green to wear. I can hear My mother today singing WHEN IRISH EYES ARE SMilEING. My mother really had the sparkle of the Irish in her eyes.

One of her favorite sayings was," you can have any old stick for a daD but if your mom or is no good you'll have a hard row to hoe.
---mima on 3/17/10


I don't celebrate St Patricks day at all,its just another day in my life,much like all the rest. There is only one little difference,my husband came by as I was using the computer and pinched me,very gentle,on the arm because I'm not wearing green. I turned around and then laughed when I realized it was the wearing of the the green day and I had none on. When I saw he didn't have green on I told him he'd get pinched and he took his cap off and showed me he does,a hunters green camoflage one,so he was prepared for the day. Any day which brings a smile,a laugh or light heartedness to someone is a good day. I don't like the beer and rowdy celebrations though.
---Darlene_1 on 3/17/10


I celebrate St. Patrick's day by wearing green and making Corned beef and cabbage. I was named after my great uncle Patrick, and celebrate my heritage as well as the memory of an evangelist who brought Christianity to my ancestors.
---Trish9863 on 3/16/10


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I agree with Cluny. One can not possibly explain the 2,000 year old rich Tradition and History of the Eastern Orthodox Church in these blogs, considering we have a 125 word limit. Visit a Eastern Orthodox church. See and hear the Apostolic Faith. Orthodoxy is a way of life and can not be explain fully in a internet blog. One has to experience it.

By the way, a correction on my last post. St. Patrick homeland was not Ireland.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 3/16/10


I plan to celebrate St. Patrick's Day by wearing an orange shirt, staying away from bars, green beer, corned beef and cabbage, and all the other stuff that most people associate with St. Paddy's Day. Like Cluny, I will go to church, and read the various prayers for his feast.

I don't believe that St. Patrick is honored by drunkenness, gluttony, and frivolity. Rather, he should be honored by going to church and/or reading the prayers of Matins and Vespers.
---FatherBrendan on 3/17/10


\\This is an invitation to explain what you believe is important or unique about the Eastern Orthodox Church's beliefs.\\

Moderator, how can one explain about a nearly 2000 year old church in a 125 word limit?

We cannot even give good web sites, because there's a rule here about not posting them.

In any case, abstract explanations aren't enough. "Come and see," as it says in the Gospels.

Just remember something. Protestants and Roman Catholics usually make the same assumptions and ask the same questions, though they differ about the answers.

With Eastern Christianity, not only are the answers different, but most of the assumptions and questions are not even the same.
---Cluny on 3/16/10


" Personally, I don't "celebrate" any dead people." (karen D)

So you do not observe 4th of July, memorial day, etc? How about the observances that takes place September 11th of every year, remembering and honoring those who died that fatal day of 2001?

"Would you explain why you celebrate St Patrick's Day?"

We celebrate St. Patrick day because St. Patrick was a Saint who bought Christianity to his Homeland, Ireland. He suffer persecution for the Gospel. We honor his memory and his legacy, and wish to follow His example, like we Americans honor those U.S. men and women who died while in the military service on Memorial Day.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 3/16/10


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\\I don't "celebrate" any dead people. Would you explain why you celebrate St Patrick's Day?\\

Do you celebrate July 4 in some way?

That's "celebrating dead people."

How about the various memorial days? Or even Mother's/Father's Days? (Both of my parents are departed.)

We celebrate the memory of St. Patrick and other historical saints, because we treasure their memories, legacies, and examples.
---Cluny on 3/16/10


Ignatius, thanks for replying to the post as I have never heard of those terms before and suppose most of the ChristiaNet users are in the same boat. Please feel free to add more information that you would think would be of benefit to the bloggers. This is an invitation to explain what you believe is important or unique about the Eastern Orthodox Church's beliefs.
---Moderator on 3/16/10


I don't celebrate this holiday. It commemorates a Man-made trin-relig-org church, just like All the other Man-mades related to trin-relig-org's churches that is Not God inspired, including the pagan ideas of easter-eggs, e-bunnies, & the such like All came from here, Matt.15 v 9 - 2nd Cor.11 v's 14-15.
---Lawrence on 3/16/10


Moderator. Cluny and I are Eastern Orthodox Christians. Matins and Vespers are our morning and evening services which consists of various readings from Holy Scriptures, as well as prayers and hymns. Those terms are not only use by us, but other Eastern Churches (i.e., Eastern Catholic, Oriental Orthodox Churches, etc).

I understand that many here are unfamiliar with the rich Tradition and History of Eastern Christianity, but given the fact that we are limited in our responses, I can not explain the above fully.

You and others need to do your personal study on line in this regard.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 3/15/10


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Cluny...The moderator is right. You are speaking a foreign language with most of your words on this one. Personally, I don't "celebrate" any dead people. Would you explain why you celebrate St Patrick's Day?
---KarenD on 3/15/10


Moderator.

You are missing so much. Have you never heard the prayer

Teach us, good Lord,
to serve you as you deserve,
to give and not to count the cost,
to fight and not to heed the wounds,
to toil and not to seek for restto labour and not to ask for any reward,
save that of knowing that we do your will.
Amen


That's not to do with Patrick, but it's a great prayer, by St Ignatius of Loyola
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/16/10


\\No, outside of Catholic services, I have never had any readings as you mentioned except for the Bible\\

I'm not too sure what you mean by "readings" in this context, but rest assured the readings in Orthodox services are all from the Bible.

Who do you think invented it to start with?

Also, I said ORTHODOX, not Roman Catholic.
---Cluny on 3/16/10


Thanks for the information Cluny. No, outside of Catholic services, I have never had any readings as you mentioned except for the Bible. I am going to guess most of the Christians on this site have readings directly from the Bible and are not familiar with the terms you mentioned. I was giving you the opportunity to educate the rest of us, however understand you passing.
---Moderator on 3/15/10


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\\Who are Matins and Vespers? What is the content of the hymns and readings?
---Moderator on 3/15/10\\

I'm surprised you know so little about Christian worship. After all, aren't these supposed to be Christian blogs?

Matins and Vespers are the Church's historical morning and evening prayers.

As for the rest, you can look them up on line.
---Cluny on 3/15/10


Alan, I don't see anyone mocking anybody or we wouldn't let the posts in.

You might have noticed that ChristiaNet even has a Saint Patrick Bible Quiz. We clicked too fast when we picked the Quiz that goes with the question.
---Moderator on 3/15/10


Why all the ridicule?

Patrick was one of the great evangelists.

It does no one credit to mock
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/15/10


Bing that is is my estranged wife's Birthday I will send her an appropriate E-card.

Being a Presbyterian with ancestry from Northern Ireland I will be waring something Orange.
---Friendly_Blogger on 3/15/10


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I'll be at home. I do not celebrate St.Patricks day.
---candice on 3/15/10


Who are Matins and Vespers? What is the content of the hymns and readings?
---Moderator on 3/15/10


I'm going to wear a crazy green headband with swinging shamrocks on it :D Of course I'll also be wearing green clothes :D
---Mary on 3/15/10


\\"praying the Office for St. Patrick"\\

The various hymns and readings for Matins and Vespers composed in his honor.
---Cluny on 3/15/10


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"praying the Office for St. Patrick" - So people don't start guessing what does the above statement mean?
---Moderator on 3/15/10


Probably by praying the Office for St. Patrick (one of the few saints I observe during Lent) and attending the Divine Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts Wednesday evening.

You don't think that St. Patrick and his memory and legacy are honored by drunkenness, gluttony, and silly green hats, do you?
---Cluny on 3/15/10


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