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Most Pagan Customs Of Today

What do you consider the most pagan customs of today?

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 ---Jan on 3/17/10
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Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

But Francis would ask did not Jesus tell us to -

Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe the Sabbath and all that I have commanded you.
---Lee1538 on 3/31/10


Lee1538

1Th 4:11 And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you,

1 Timothy 4
8 For bodily exercise profits a little, but GODLINESS is profitable for all things, having promise of the life that now is and of that which is to come. 9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance. 10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. 11 These things command and teach.
12 Let no one despise your youth, but be an example to the believers in word, in conduct, in love, in SPIRIT, in FAITH, in purity.
---Ed on 3/31/10


Francis - wrong as usual!

Numbers 15:16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

The clause 'sojouirneth with you' reveals that there is one law for those who live in Israel among the Jewish people, not those who would live elsewhere.

If you were to live in Sweden, you would be under their law, not the laws of other countries.

Gentiles who became Christians did not come under the Old Covenant laws, but came under the laws found only in the New Covenant. Otherwise Francis you wold be out there observing the feasts of Booths, of Weeks, of Harvest, as well as eating the Passover lamb, bitter herbs, unleavened bread, etc. in memory of your coming out of Egypt. Ex. 34:22
---Lee1538 on 3/31/10


You can sojourn with the non-believing Hebrews all you want.
Jam 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
1Tim 1:5-9a Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and [of] a good conscience, and [of] faith unfeigned: From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling, Desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. But we know that the law [is] good, if a man use it lawfully, Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient
---MIchael on 3/31/10


You can sojourn with the non-believing Hebrews all you want.
Jam 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
1Tim 1:5-9a Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and [of] a good conscience, and [of] faith unfeigned: From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling, Desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. But we know that the law [is] good, if a man use it lawfully, Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient
---MIchael on 3/31/10




//At no time did God ever give seperate laws for hebrews and nonhebrews.

But the church did give allowance for individual convictions when it came to the obsevance of holy days or dietary laws. That much is easily seen in Romans 14.

The council of Jerusalem (Acts 15) had to decide if Gentile converts had to be circumcised and observe the laws of Moses.

The decision made at the Council was that Gentiles need not be circumcised, or observe the laws of Moses. And that is why one does not see the obsevance of the Jewish Sabbath or the dietary laws among Gentile converts by the end of the first century.
---Lee1538 on 3/31/10


God never made a covenant with any Gentile
( those who do not believe in God)

The New Covenant of which you speak was made with Judah and israel.

Any non-hebrew who is a christian, has entered into a jewish covenant, and thus is subjected to the Laws of God.

At no time did God ever give seperate laws for hebrews and nonhebrews.

So the idea that any laws are Jewish law, or the idea of a jewish sabbath is not christian.

It is today, as it has always beens:

Numbers 15:16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

And even when none hebews became jews, it was still ONE LAW for all
---francis on 3/31/10


Ed - yes it is clear you are at a distinct disadvantage in trying to debate or discuss anything spiritual as the religionist has little or no knowledge of the truths of the Bible or even its Author.

In your situation you should heed the words of Scripture that tells you what you should do.

1Th 4:11 And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you,

And leave the work of proclaiming the gospel to those who truly know what they are doing.
---Lee1538 on 3/31/10


Lee1538

I will not debate with you about things you know nothing about. I will not, and have not taken any formal theology classes. I see the evil that come out of them.

What makes you think I get any teaching from Rabbi's (teachers)?I am not Jewish nor Have I ever claimed to be.
You say you got over 50 years in ?, and you still can't hear the Truth?, or is it that you prefer the word of men over the WORD? But I ask that question in jest, for I know your fruits.

You say you keep the moral Laws but you refuse to keep the Spiritual Laws. Keeping the Law that make us good to men is good, but without the Spitirual Obiedence to God, it is Fruitless.
---Ed on 3/31/10


Ed //What ignoramus taught you that Christians went to Jewish synagogues so they could learn the Mosaic law?

You say "His name is the Holy Spirit and the Bible"

Sorry but the Holy Spirit would never send Christians to learn of the law from Jewish rabbis who by the way, did not acknowledge Jesus as the Messiah.

You seem to be badly confused and ignorant of both the Bible & church history. Anyone even remotely familiar with early church history could tell you the church had its own system of educating beleivers.

Yes, you boast of leading people to Adventism, the Lord has used me to lead others to Christ, having been an active Christian for over 50 years and an active member of a Bible society for some 30.
---Lee1538 on 3/30/10




Ed - //But I guess Yeshua word is not for you.

That is what I was thinking of you. Have you ever done any formal course work in theology?

Acts 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Did the Apostles tell the Gentile Christians they had to obey the law? (Gentiles already honored moral law Romans 2:14f)

Or is this one of those passages those evil sunday worships who translated our Bible altered to lead people away from observing the most holy commandment of Judaism - the Sabbath?
---Lee1538 on 3/30/10


No Christian need worry about these things,because it is Satan which mimics and steals what God does not the other way around. Romans 14:5,6,14,19 One man esteemeth one day above another:another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persauded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day,regardeth it unto the Lord,and he that regardeth not the day,to the Lord he doth not regard it. I know and am persauded by the Lord Jesus,there is nothing unclean of itself: but him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean,to him it is unclean. Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace,and things wherewith one may edify another.
---Darlene_1 on 3/30/10


\\Oh ok, so Cluny doesn't put up a xmas tree, not that I said he did, but I'll stick with dressing up as santa, eating to excess and getting drunk. Maybe that's a better reflection.\\

Fooled you!

That's why Orthodox Christians FAST before Nativity--so as not to be caught in the world's trap.
---Cluny on 3/30/10


Ed -//What ignoramus taught you that Christians went to Jewish synagogues so they could learn the Mosaic law?

His name is the Holy Spirit and the Bible. I converted my first Jew to Christianity before I was 17,I'm sure that was before you were born. I was baptized on A Sabbath by a Pastor I converted before I was 15, He held Sabbath services in a church that believes in Sunday worship. If I offend you then the Word offend you, That is not my fault for I am to tell you the Truth. What you do with it is up to you. If you love Elohim with all you might,Heart, and Soul then you keep His Commandments.
I Judge you not, Why do you Judge Me?
PEACE
---Ed on 3/29/10


Lee1538

And the Jewish Sabbath only concerns oneself, not ones neighbor.
Lee1538

You shall LOVE GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, SOUL,AND MIND is the First Spiritual commandment, and the next 4 are based upon that one. So what your telling me is that its too much trouble to keep the Spiritual ones? As John wrote ,1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
But I guess Yeshua word is not for you.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Makes this clear.
Peace
---Ed on 3/30/10


So Rhonda ... Your religion consists merely of fear of your Father in heaven and of His wrath.

You say that the Birth and Resurrection of our Saviour are pagan traditions.

So what hope have you for yuor Future?
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/30/10


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Rhonda, I agree 100% with what you wrote.

I also would like to add in most Churches (not all) in the world today which claim to be Christian avoid teaching or preaching on what is written in Romans 1:18-32.
---Rob on 3/29/10


Amen David

sadly most of religious christianity does not care for The Father in Heaven if they did they would be fearful of HIM and His Wrath for the wicked abominations they carelessly and blindly follow in the foolish traditions of men Mark 7:6-7 to please themselves and dismiss HIM

easter (or worship of Ishtar) and bowing down to the pagan egg of "life" as they say ...or xmas and its absurd worldly traditions

pagan traditions do not honor The Father in Heaven ...although they do honor the god of this world 2Corin 4:4 ...easy to understand when the WORLD of religious christianity defends their traditions MORE THAN the living words of scripture
---Rhonda on 3/29/10


Donna66 "Customs of any kind are what you make them"

Quite ... does it really matter if other people make different things of them?

The Germans used a cross as their emblem ... does that make the cross evil?

KKK had/have white robes ... does that make a white bridal dress evil?

BNP use the Britsin National Flag (the Union Jack) as the emblem fro their hateful racist party. Does that make the Union Jack evil?
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/29/10


Many Christians don't know nor care about "pagan" customs. They teach their children that eggs signify "new life"...the same with the the baby animals. BUT Jesus died on the cross and rose again so we can be "born again" spiritually and have a "new life" in him. Customs of any kind are what you make them.
---Donna66 on 3/29/10


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Oh ok, so Cluny doesn't put up a xmas tree, not that I said he did, but I'll stick with dressing up as santa, eating to excess and getting drunk. Maybe that's a better reflection.

But these pagan customs are being defended by the Cluny's of the world as 'Christian' when it clearly has nothing to do with the Bible. Xmas and all its festive trappings are false religious practices.

When the Israelites began to engage in festivals not ordained in the law, they experienced God's wrath. God hasn't changed. God's wrath will be experienced by those misrepresenting him through pagan festivals and by those defending pagan activities as though they were Christian.
---David8318 on 3/29/10


Oh, so Ignatius finds ridiculous the notion that pagan activities 'not endorsed in the Bible' are now acceptable. (3/26/10)

That's exactly why Ignatius is unable to distinguish between right and wrong because he thinks mixing paganism with the Bible for him is 'right' and justifiable.

Ignatius doesn't use God's word to 'train his perceptive powers' Heb.5:14. He evidently is not one who wants to seek to please God and avoid doing anything that might hinder his relationship with God. That's fine with me, no skin off my nose.

Ignatius just about sums up the permissive state of Christendom. 'They have a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power.' 2 Tim.3:5.
---David8318 on 3/29/10


Two popular ones come to mind. The holding of sacred as the false sabbath, Sunday, and the belief in spiritism - that the dead are un-dead.
---jerry6593 on 3/29/10


\\The Angels celebrated Jesus' birth not the 'wrong' way, but the 'right' way, God's way. Heb.5:14

No matter where you look or what you say Cluny, you cannot excuse or justify your paganism.
---David8318 on 3/26/10\\

And where you get the idea I put up a Christmas tree, David?

How do you excuse your lying and slandering me? We KNOW who the slanderer of God's children is.

On another issue.

The Gentiles who frequented the synagogues in Acts were the "God-fearers"--THEOFOVOUMENOI in Greek--who worshipped one God, but had not gone so far as to be circumcised.
---Cluny on 3/28/10


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The most pagan customs are non-believers celebrating both something and nothing on Christmas and Thanksgiving.


Their insistence on both the separation of church and state and a national holiday is the beacon of all hypocrisy.

Thanksgiving, to who and for what?

They are pathetic.
---larry on 3/28/10


Ed -//What ignoramus taught you that Christians went to Jewish synagogues so they could learn the Mosaic law?

You fail to understand the church has its own system of instruction.

The early church taught the gospel about Jesus, His death & resurrection. They did not burden Gentile converts with Jewish law.

They truly believed once a person was placed in Christ, they needed only to follow that Spirit.

If you ever get into the New Testament, try reading Galatians 3 about the law being but a guardian(schoolmaster) until one could be justified by faith in Christ, thereafter one no longer needed the guardian (the law).

When will you ever learn what the Christian walk is all about? Poor pitiful Judaizer!
---Lee1538 on 3/28/10


Ed -//Jesus said to him, You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these 2 commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.

And after the New Covenant was created, this really boiled down to love of neighbor as the fulfillment of the law.

The commandments,You shall not commit adultery, not murder, not steal, not covet, and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

And the Jewish Sabbath only concerns oneself, not ones neighbor.
---Lee1538 on 3/28/10


Lee1538

What ignoramus taught you that Christians went to Jewish synagogues so they could learn the Mosaic law? Jewish rabbis has little or no use for Jesus.

The Priest of the Priest, Yeshua.
Matthew 22.
34 But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35 Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36 Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said to him, You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.
---Ed on 3/28/10


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Francis //The new converts could verify this by doing what the early church did: Gathering together on the Sabbath at the synagogues.

No I did not miss the point at all.

If you knew anything at all about the early church you would find the church did NOT go to the Jewish synagogues to learn from non-believing rabbis as they had their own system of education.

When churches were established, elders & deacons were elected to teach converts. One early catechism was called the Didache.

What ignoramus taught you that Christians went to Jewish synagogues so they could learn the Mosaic law? Jewish rabbis has little or no use for Jesus.
---Lee1538 on 3/26/10


"Cluny, the Angels didn't celebrate the birth of God's Son by erecting a tree and decorating it with lights and baubles, pulling crackers, dressing up as Santa, eating to excess, and getting drunk." (David)

But such activities are associated with the secular celebration of the Feast of the Nativity (Christmas), but it was not so in the beginning, which was simply a Church Feast to celebrate Christ' birth. The same with Pascal.

"The argument is ridiculous"

You mean the argument that "If it is not endorsed in the Bible, it must be 'wrong'"? I agree. Such argument is ridiculous.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 3/26/10


Cluny, the Angels didn't celebrate the birth of God's Son by erecting a tree and decorating it with lights and baubles, pulling crackers, dressing up as Santa, eating to excess, and getting drunk. Did they?

Or are you now suggesting the Angels did decide to dabble in a bit of paganism to celebrate his birth?

Afterall the Angels knew Xmas-trees and Santa are not in the Bible. So why not? But of course, the Angels are not that stupid.

The Angels celebrated Jesus' birth not the 'wrong' way, but the 'right' way, God's way. Heb.5:14

No matter where you look or what you say Cluny, you cannot excuse or justify your paganism.
---David8318 on 3/26/10


There is nothing in Acts concerning believers even meeting at the synagogue, let alone on the sabbath.
---MIchael on 3/26/10


Actually there is:

Acts 16:12 And from thence to Philippi, which is the chief city of that part of Macedonia, [and] a colony: and we were in that city abiding certain days.

Acts 16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made, and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted [thither].

Acts 16:14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard [us]: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.
---francis on 3/26/10


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In response to Ignatius (3/25/10)- Xmas, Easter, computers, speakers and microphones are not mentioned in the Bible.

But which one is an important religious festival on Christendom's calendar? Which is of pagan origin? This is where spiritual maturity is used. One who is able to 'discern between right and wrong' will clearly see which activity is pagan or not. Heb.5:14.

Only 2 listed above are important festivals on Christendom's calendar, which the clergy say: 'One is not Christian if they do not observe!' Could it be the festival of the computer, or the microphone?

The argument is ridiculous, but reveals the likes of Cluny, Michael & Ignatius to be spiritually immature- unable to 'discern between right and wrong'.
---David8318 on 3/26/10


A corrupt tree cannot bring forth good fruit.
The c-tree, e-eggs, e-bunnies, halloween Is corrupt foolishness in the sight of God. God just don't sanctify foolishness. In the O-Testament God winked at ignorance. In the N-Testament, God will laugh at you calamity. It's a lust of the flesh to so many & there's Nothing spiritual about it.
---Lawrence on 3/26/10


There is nothing in Acts concerning believers even meeting at the synagogue, let alone on the sabbath.
---MIchael on 3/26/10
Actually there is:
Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Acts 13:43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to "CONTINUE IN THE GRACE OF GOD."

THIS WAS SAID TO CHRISTIANS. WHO WERE WORSHIPING AT THE SYNAGOGUE WITH PAUL.
you could not ask a jew to continue in the grace of God, seeing they rejected His grace.
---francis on 3/26/10


Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Lets say that the early christians met every Sunday. Would it not make sense for these would be christians to met NEXT DAY rather than NEXT SABBATH?

And with Paul visiting would it not make sense for him to worship with his fellow christians NEXT DAY? then why not invit the whole city to joint them NEXT DAY, why on earth would he wait till NEXT SABBATH?
---francis on 3/26/10


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Easter egss-Easter Bunny-Easter egg hunts- in place of Passover.
---char on 3/26/10


I only see nonbelievers going to the synagogues, where Paul and others preached Christ from the scriptures. Where were the scriptures located in those days?
'Sabbath' is used 9 times in Acts, 8 of which concern reasoning with Jews and Greeks out of scripture in the synagogue. There is nothing in Acts concerning believers even meeting at the synagogue, let alone on the sabbath.
What is really interesting is 'sabbath' is only used once after Acts:
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:
Peter said: Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
---MIchael on 3/26/10


Lee1538 you missed the point.
the new converts, like all new converts needed to learn more. In addition, the things that the apostles recommended came from the OT.

The new converts could verify this by doing what the early church did: Gathering together on the sabbath at the synagogues.

If the early churches did keep sunday as a holy day, then the word of God would be preached every sunday.
But the bible says it was preached every sabbath.

Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
---FRANCIS on 3/26/10


The pagan ideas of Christmas is celebrating it with the decorating of a tree, including singing jingle bells, winter wonder land, j-b-rock etc. This has Nothing to do with the real meaning of Christmas. The nativity scene Is Great to celebrate Jesus birth. The songs The First Noel, Silent Night,
Joy To The World etc, goes along with it.---Lawrence on 3/26/10
I may have misunderstood your previous blogs intentions and may have been a little to zealous in my response.
Here, I agree with you for any day can be celebrated unto the Lord, and yes, pagan ideas and cultures always try to corrupt that which is good. Also I believe we can take that which is corrupt, sanctify it and give it to God for His glory just as He did with us.
---MIchael on 3/26/10


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Francis - You asked why Acts 15:21 was added.

While James concluded that even if Gentiles were not required to keep the laws of Moses, Gentile Christians needed to avoid offending Jewish Christians who felt a great importance in keeping the ceremonial laws, sacrifices, festivals, unclean foods,sabbath(s) and circumcision of the OT.

The Greek word 'For' at the beginning of 15:21 gives the reason why Gentile Christian should abstain from certain things, bec 'Moses is read in every city those who proclaim him'.

The last requirement dealing with sexual purity, thro not contextual, was given to affirm Gentiles need to maintain the high moral standards of the law. ESV Study notes.
---Lee1538 on 3/26/10


Jerusalem council that Gentile converts need not observe the Mosaic laws of which the OT sabbath is but one.
Lee1538 on 3/25/10


Have you ever wondered why the apostles added this verse:
Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

What good does it do a new gentile convert if Moses is taught every sabbath day.

It would do more good to a believer if Moses was taught every first day, after all the claim is that early christians met every first day.

If these new converts met every first day, then surely Moses was taught every first day. Yet the Bible said every sabbath.
---francis on 3/26/10


The pagan ideas of Christmas is celebrating it with the decorating of a tree, including singing jingle bells, winter wonder land, j-b-rock etc. This has Nothing to do with the real meaning of Christmas.

The nativity scene Is Great to celebrate Jesus birth. The songs The First Noel, Silent Night,
Joy To The World etc, goes along with it.
---Lawrence on 3/26/10


\\People have been misled into believing Xmas and Easter are central, key festivals on their calendar. My argument is, How can these be important Christian festivals if they are not mentioned in the Bible?\\

As a matter of fact, they are.

The Nativity in Matthew 1 and Luke 2--the Angels even sang at it.

And the Resurrection is mentioned in every Gospel. Angels appeared at that one, too.

If the angels can celebrate it, so can we.

Your Resurrection, O Christ our Savior
The angels in heaven sing.
Enable us on earth
To glorify You in purity of heart.
---Cluny on 3/26/10


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I would say Christmas and Easter are the most pagan custom of today.
---John on 3/25/10


Lee1538

At the judgment seat the ones who have constantly accuse those who had clothed the naked, fed the hungry, visited the sick and those in jail, and attended to other needs of the deprived, who being false brethren will follow their master into the lake of fire.

Have you not read Matthew 7:21-23
21 Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name? 23 And then I will declare to them, I never knew you, depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
---Ed on 3/26/10


People have been misled into believing Xmas and Easter are central, key festivals on their calendar. My argument is, How can these be important Christian festivals if they are not mentioned in the Bible?
David8318

Where in the Bible do we find a inspired and infallible lists of books that should belong in the Bible?

Is the Bible's table of contents inspired?

My question is, if the Bible is to be true and inspired(and is it) , how is one to know, if there is not a list that tells us which books belong in the Bible?
---Ruben on 3/25/10


//the single most popular pagan custom today is making the first day a holy day:

Very true in the eyes of those who have made the Jewish Sabbath into some kind of idol and for the Judaizers who have essentially denounced the decisions made at the Jerusalem council that Gentile converts need not observe the Mosaic laws of which the OT sabbath is but one.

At the judgment seat the ones who have constantly accuse those who had clothed the naked, fed the hungry, visited the sick and those in jail, and attended to other needs of the deprived, who being false brethren will follow their master into the lake of fire.
---Lee1538 on 3/25/10


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David,

Cluny and Michael's arguments are not silly and immature. If you want to condemn Christmas and Paschal because they are not endorsed in the Bible then equally one must condemn invitation hymns, altar calls, hymnals, sermons, carrying Bibles to Church, using a speakerphone by the preacher/pastor, etc.

You may not see carrying a Bible to Church as a pagan custom, but such tradition is not endorsed in the Bible. And like you said, if it is not endorsed in the Bible, it must be 'wrong'.

David, we are just playing by your rules. One will be surprise how many things in your church are not Bible endorsed.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 3/25/10


francis
Amen, the Baal system of worship, and way too many follow this way.

David8318
Amen, but you do know that they have been taught these things are Christian.

Time comes to the final chapter soon and I hope all will see the Truth. Remember the Parable of the Master of the vineyard, who hired workers in the morning, at mid day, and the last hour of the day. Those who were hired at the last hour got the same pay as the ones hired at morning.

Peace unto you all and may The Light Of The Lamb Always Guide Your Way!!
---Ed on 3/25/10


the single most popular pagan custom today is making the first day a holy day:

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Revelation 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
---francis on 3/25/10


Sorry but the arguments put forward by both Cluny and Michael would be hysterical if the issues weren't so serious.

People have been misled into believing Xmas and Easter are central, key festivals on their calendar. My argument is, How can these be important Christian festivals if they are not mentioned in the Bible?

I don't view a 'computer' or 'carrying a Bible' as pagan activities, neither do I view them as religious holidays and festivals! Xmas and Easter ARE, and should not be promoted as Christian because they're not Bible ordained festivals.

Honestly, Cluny and Michael's argumentation is rather childish and immature. They 'clutch at straws' in a vain attempt to justify their paganism.
---David8318 on 3/25/10


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You might want to stop using your computer david8318 because, as you say, it is not Bible ordained, else the word 'hypocrit' may come to bear.
Pro 11:9 An hypocrite with [his] mouth destroyeth his neighbour: but through knowledge shall the just be delivered.
---MIchael on 3/24/10


\\If it's not Bible ordained, it must be 'wrong'.
---David8318 on 3/24/10\\

Where are invitation hymns, altar calls, hymnals, sermons, and carrying Bibles to Church provided for in the Bible?

Please give BCV for them all.
---Cluny on 3/24/10


Lawrence is absolutely right. C-mas trees, easter eggs etc... have nothing to do with true Christianity.

These pagan rites and festivals are a diversion from what is Biblical truth.

A mature Christian is one who is able to 'distinguish both right and wrong'. Heb.5:14.

If it's not Bible ordained, it must be 'wrong'.
---David8318 on 3/24/10


1Cor 10:29-31 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another [man's] conscience? For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks? Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
1Cor 8:9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
Gal 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty, only [use] not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
---MIchael on 3/24/10


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Cluny
Mature christians shouldn't even bother with doing such pagan ideas & things. Such has Nothing to do with God, I believe it's foolishness in His eyes.
---Lawrence on 3/24/10


\\The decorated c-tree, easter-eggs & bunnies, halloween, st. patricks. None of these pertain to God Almighty.
The devil uses such to divert peoples minds away from God.
---Lawrence on 3/22/10\\

If it makes you feel good to think that, Lawrence, you just go right ahead.

These things don't bother mature Christians.
---Cluny on 3/22/10


The decorated c-tree, easter-eggs & bunnies, halloween, st. patricks. None of these pertain to God Almighty.
The devil uses such to divert peoples minds away from God.
---Lawrence on 3/22/10


For those who think that worship on Sunday is a pagan custom (as if Jews did not, as they worshipped, and still do, on EVERY day), the Graeco-Roman world did not know a seven day week, but rather an EIGHT day week (for lack of a better word). One out of eight days was the market day.

Their measurement of time was based on the month, not the week, with the Kalends (first day), None (usually, but not always, 9th day), and Ides (usually, but not always, 15th day) as the principal days.

Furthermore, worship of pagan deities was on an annual cycle, not modern weekly cycle.
---Cluny on 3/20/10


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\\Imposible. there is no text that gives a celebration of resurrection on sunday.

And biblically you cannot calculate a month based on full moon. The new moon is the New month.

What you said is just not biblical. It is paganism, made into traditional christianity.
---francis on 3/19/10\\

If that makes you feel good to think that, francis, you just go right ahead.

You cannot deny that Passover is calculated on the basis of the full moon from the Bible.
---Cluny on 3/19/10


To be precise, Passover was calculated to be 14 days after the first new moon after the spring equinox! Month Nisan
---1st_cliff on 3/19/10


Pascha, however, is the celebration of the Resurrection of Christ.

BTW--the full moon is used to calculate the Jewish Passover as well. Did you know that?
---Cluny on 3/19/10

Imposible. there is no text that gives a celebration of resurrection on sunday.

And biblically you cannot calculate a month based on full moon. The new moon is the New month.

What you said is just not biblical. It is paganism, made into traditional christianity.
---francis on 3/19/10


The most prevalent pagan customs today are what they always were -- the practices of vanity, jealousy, lust and greed. And we are all guilty.
---ger.toshav on 3/19/10


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\\Easter is the feast celebrating Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians/ the queen of heaven. It falls on the first Sunday after the first FULL moon in spring.\\

Pascha, however, is the celebration of the Resurrection of Christ.

BTW--the full moon is used to calculate the Jewish Passover as well. Did you know that?
---Cluny on 3/19/10


Easter is a real date, known (the day after Jewish passover), and so.... And, not being in the US, I am not familiar with the customs except that relaively few people really do anything then. Aren't you overstating things?
---peter3594 on 3/18/10

Easter is the feast celebrating Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians/ the queen of heaven. It falls on the first Sunday after the first FULL moon in spring.

Passover is the 15 day of the first month of the year IE the 14 day after the first NEW moon.

Easter is ALWAYS on a sunday, passover varies
---francis on 3/19/10


I am not aware of any degrees of paganism, for either a person is a pagan or else they are not. Pagans either are eclectic, or else they follow a specific tradition. Pagans usually have more than one named god: one for the water, one for earth, one for fire, one for the wind, one for trees, one for fertility, etc.
---Eloy on 3/19/10


Peter3594...In the USA, Easter is celebrated everywhere. Easter bunnies, Easter eggs, etc. Many churches even celebrate with Easter egg hunts for the children. When asked if we would have an Easter egg hunt at our church for the children, I replied, "If you can show me a scripture that has Easter eggs in it, we will have one."
---KarenD on 3/19/10


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\\ but the XC is hard for me to work out\\

IC XC is the first and last letters of Jesus Christ in Greek. (C is an ancient form of the letter Sigma, still frequently used in handwriting.)
---Cluny on 3/18/10


Thank-you Cluny for provided that information.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 3/18/10


Ignatious, off the subject, can you help me with the IC, XC - I recognize IC (Iisous Xristos) that is easy, but the XC is hard for me to work out... can you help me - I take it to be Orthodox, but being in an orthodox country (Greece) I do not find the equivalent somewhere to undersand it! Thanks
---peter3594 on 3/18/10


\\The Pagans assigned days of the week to different gods, and we still use these names in our modern day secular calender.\\

Prinicpally in English.

In Greek and Latin (pagan languages par excellence), they are called merely

Lord's Day (Kyriake, Dominica)
Second Day (Devtera, Ferai Secunda)
Third Day
Fourth Day
Fifth Day
Preparation (Paraskeve) or Sixth Day (Feria Sexta)
Sabbath
---Cluny on 3/18/10


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Francis, I will have to disagree on some of your claims. Christmas, yes, has no connection with any real date, and appears to be based on an old, pagan, 'mid-winter' festival. But here we are talking about 'customs', not dates, and not everything done on Christmas is pagan. Easter is a real date, known (the day after Jewish passover), and so.... And, not being in the US, I am not familiar with the customs except that relaively few people really do anything then. Aren't you overstating things?
---peter3594 on 3/18/10


most pagan customs of today are:

Christmas
Easter
Carnival
Bachanal
Halloween

not nessesarily in this order
---francis on 3/18/10


Jan,

Some pagan customs reflect the heart and core of paganism. They exist only in a pagan context. For example, one cannot have Christian human sacrifice or Christian temple prostitution. On the other hand, there are pagan customs that do not reflect paganism itself. They just happen to be forms used by pagans in some of their religious traditions. In Malachi 4:2 God uses the sun, long a pagan symbol, to figuratively image Jesus. Often times we may have symbol of paganism taken a whole new meaning.

Not everything pagans do is inherently evil. They sing, go to a temple and pray. Should we cease to sing or to pray because that is the custom of the pagans?

We must not confuse the form with the substance.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 3/18/10


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