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God Created Heaven & Earth

When God created the heavens and earth as recorded in the Bible, was that also the beginning of the universe?

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 ---Leon on 3/22/10
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1st Cliff:
Once again, Genesis 1 is very simple and easy to understand. It is my opinion that you have to work hard at it to misunderstand it. But if you in fact struggle with the text, please take the liberty to ask questions, rather than giving your uninformed opinion. 3/29, 4/1: you believe in creatio ex materia rather than ex nihilo nihil fit. Deuteronomy 4:24, Hebrews 12:29, shows us that God is angry at sin, that includes the consistent false expounding of verses by a man with a rebellious heart. Your interpretation is blasphemous. E=mc2 - energy has mass, matter and mass are not synonymous. Many things are in a vacuum.
---Glenn on 4/2/10


1st Cliff:
Once again, Genesis 1 is very simple and easy to understand. It is my opinion that you have to work hard at it to misunderstand it. But if you in fact struggle with the text, please take the liberty to ask questions, rather than giving your uninformed opinion. 3/29, 4/1: you believe in creatio ex materia rather than ex nihilo nihil fit. Deuteronomy 4:24, Hebrews 12:29, shows us that God is angry at sin, that includes the consistent false expounding of verses by a man with a rebellious heart. Your interpretation is blasphemous. E=mc2 - energy has mass, matter and mass are not synonymous. Many things are in a vacuum.
---Glenn on 4/2/10


1st Cliff:
Once again, Genesis 1 is very simple and easy to understand. It is my opinion that you have to work hard at it to misunderstand it. But if you in fact struggle with the text, please take the liberty to ask questions, rather than giving your uninformed opinion. 3/29, 4/1: you believe in creatio ex materia rather than ex nihilo nihil fit. Deuteronomy 4:24, Hebrews 12:29, shows us that God is angry at sin, that includes the consistent false expounding of verses by a man with a rebellious heart. Your interpretation is blasphemous. E=mc2 - energy has mass, matter and mass are not synonymous. Many things are in a vacuum.
---Glenn on 4/2/10


good questions earl.
God created in 6 days and chose to rest the 7th for a sign to the Israelites after He led them out of Egypt. Also for our 7 day week. There is no other reason for the 7 day week than the creation week. The 7th day being the Hebrew Sabbath.
---MIchael on 4/1/10


Glen, "Ex Nihlo Nihil Fit" is a principle that still stands.
An extra ordiary human (Albert Einstein) proved that energy and mass were related (E=mc2)
We know for a fact that God is enegy,(Heb.12.29.) He simply turned some of that energy into mass , and we have a universe and all it's components!
There's nothing in a vacuum!
---1st_cliff on 4/1/10




Earl, don't worry about "spiritual signs" and read Scripture. Proverbs 3:5 "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding."

In Genesis God defines day-length, and said He created over 6 of these 24hr, earth-rotation days. In Exodus 20: 8-11 It is clear the Israelites were to work for 6 days because, as He says there, He created over six days.

Romans 14:23 ".....everything that does not come from faith is sin." Read Hebrews Chapter 11 which is all about faith, and vs. 6 "without faith it is impossible to please God.

God defined day-length, and confirmed this in Exodus. What excuse do we have not to believe?
---Warwick on 4/2/10


Earl, I am not sure about exactly HOW and HOW FAST creation was created, and my personal feeling is that that is not actually the important part. As long as we know that God did the creating, I THINK the exact time frame is not the important part for US. It is only a problem when others use a supposed different time frame to try to dispute the real fact - that God did the creating
---peter3594 on 4/2/10


1st Cliff: "Tell us again that all things created on day 6 took only 24hrs!
NO! you don't know God!...missinterpretation!"

Why don't we let God Himself tell us in His own handwriting?

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is

Do you think that He was trying to mislead us?
---jerry6593 on 4/2/10


1st_cliff: "Tell us again that all things created on day 6 took only 24hrs!"

You may know about God, but you surely don't know the power of God? How many millions of years would it have taken to turn water into wine? Or bring a decayed body back to life? Or to have a person to be able to walk on water? Or if you filled a basket with two loaves of bread and several fish and set it on your kitchen table, how many millions of years would it take for them to multiply to feed 5,000?

You see, cliff, if you don't believe that God can create the whole universe in six days, how could you ever believe in these miracles?
---Steveng on 4/1/10


I plainly do not believe the 6 day creation.I have recieved no spiritual sign saying it is a sin .
Why did God not use only one day to create??If God can do anything then why so long to get it done?
Genesis states God rested on the 7th. day but another writer later on stated God does not rest.I believe the latter.
---earl on 4/1/10




Genesis was written in the historical genre, and was not meant to be taken as an allegorical novel, less a myth. You may believe that Genesis did not occur as written, but please don't try to change the meaning of a verse because you disagree with it. If you consistently interpret Biblical texts according to your own preconceived ideas, it is a sign that you lack confidence in Him, and can not hear the voice of the good Shepherd, John 10:3-4, 14, 27. God especially disapproves of those who teach error, and also attempt to make converts. Matthew 5:19, 7:13-27 (15), 23:15, 2Corinthians 11:13-15, 2Timothy 2:14-17, 2Peter 3:16.
1st Cliff: Creatio ex nihilo, Genesis 1:1, Hebrews 11:3.
---Glenn on 4/1/10


Just because God "can" dosen't mean He does!
We've had thousands of years to study God and his patterns.
Never has He been in a big hurry ,like throwing together this whole universe in 24 hrs.
He took 4,000 years to have His Son atone for sin.
It's 2,000 years and has not yet returned!
Tell us again that all things created on day 6 took only 24hrs!
NO! you don't know God!...missinterpretation!
---1st_cliff on 4/1/10


"Can the spiritual universe abide in the physical universe? Steveng, 3/31

The Bible says God is a spirit. But, I don't recall reading anywhere in the Bible about a spiritual universe. Do you care to expand upon & explain what you mean?
---Leon on 4/1/10


Leon: "Think like a child.:) We live in the basement -- God's resides in the lofty penthouse, i.e., "One" heaven, but at vastly different levels of elevation."

Can the spiritual universe abide in the physical universe?
---Steveng on 3/31/10


By Faith we believe God exist-even though we don't see-God.
Jn1:1-2In the Beginning was the Word,and the Word was with God,and the Word was God.The same was in the Begnning with God.

Then God spoke.
---char on 3/31/10


God is God.
Time is His-He owns it.
Do we believe He is able to create something out of nothing?
I do.
Do we believe He can change time at His will?
I do.
Do we believe He Can make six days look like a million,billion,trillion etc...if he chooses and vice-versa?
I do.
Do we believe He knows more then we do?
I do.
Six days-as of a thousand....
All things are possible with God.
How beautiful God is.
---char on 3/31/10


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So, the light from the andromeda galaxy was present before God created light?
---MIchael on 3/31/10


G1 "BEGINNING" speaks specifically of God's creation of the "heaven" (atmosphere) we live in ( & beneath) on earth.

G2 speaks generally of THE SOLAR SYSTEM (sun, moon, earth, stars & other planetary bodies) WE LIVE IN. So, the "heavens" are:
1.) earth's upper atmosphere (air & clouds) &
2.) the rest of the solar system extending beyond earth's exosphere.

Bottomline: The G1 & 2 "BEGINNING" is about the overall creation of THE SOLAR SYSTEM of which our earth is an integral part. It has nothing to do with God's sudden creation of the infinite universe. The universe existed before the creation of our solar system. Before the creation, the Creator -- GOD!!!
---Leon on 3/31/10


Six day creation vs. Second age.
Created-Something from nothing
Formed-substance from substance

Second age-
Because God is perfect-created-In The "Very" beginning-everything perfect.
Bereshiyth is the action when God performed-In beginning(Heavens now)-second age-which took six days.
In the beginning of this age-God fills the sky and the land etc...

The hebrew idiom for "all things" is "heaven and earth".
The Hebrews saw the heavens and stars as a canopy or tent covering over the earth-concrete idea.
We are told of a division-ha-satan-orchestrated.The evidence is in the world today.We are instructed to "find the agreement" in brotherly love.
---char on 3/31/10


Psa 33:6,9 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made, and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth...For he spake, and it was [done], he commanded, and it stood fast.
Exodus 32:16 And the tables [were] the work of God, and the writing [was] the writing of God, graven upon the tables.
Heb 11:1-3 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good report. Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Sounds like faith to me. What have men written on paper that you believe?
---MIchael on 3/31/10


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Three-Ages.
*An action of the Heavens and Earth in the Beginning(Then)
*An action of the Heavens and Earth(Now)
*An action for the Heavens and Earth(will be)

The problems:
We are using western perspective which is abstract-and try to understand the Ancient Hebrews-who- understood things through the concrete mind-substance of action.
Translators made changes.Hebrew titles are given within the first words of each book.
Example:
The greek word Genesis-no part of the Hebrew Title-means generation,creation.
The Hebrew title Bereshiyth-means In summit,top,head of,beginning.Exodus-the greek word-means The way out-and the hebrew title is valleh shemoth-means "these are the names"
---char on 3/31/10


Warwick, I have to admit that up 'till now I never knew fundamentalists believed the universe is only 6 thousand years old. If this is general throughout "Christendom" ,then it's no wonder they're dicouraging it in schools.
No wonder Islam is making "inroads" and schools are teaching "evolution".
I'm thankful not "all" Christians subscribe to that nonsence!
All because somebody wrote it down on a piece of parchment..somewhere...wow!
1500 years before writing was invented??
Faith or credulity?? certainly not faith!
---1st_cliff on 3/31/10


Yes, The heavens and the earth is the universe.....Before God began to create the universe nothing else existed except God Himself. Genesis 1:1....says, 'In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth". The phrase "the heavens and the earth" includes the entire universe. John 1:3>>>All things were made through Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made" [had difficulty in getting that down}! The phrase "all things" is best taken to refer to the entire universe [Acts 17:24, Heb. 11:3].
---catherine on 3/31/10


Well put Glenn, how can there be anything before the beginning. If there was, then the beginning obviously wasn't the beginning!

The idea that God "is not subject to space, time, or matter, and is without beginning or end," as you write is a difficult concept to grasp, for we such limited creatures who don't even know how much there is to know! How can we expect to understand the domain of God seeing we have never seen nor experienced it?

But praise God we have His word to teach us, and the Holy Spirit who enlightens, and enlivens us.
---Warwick on 3/31/10


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Genesis 1:1, Since beginning, is here, a point in time on the first day of a literal seven day week. Since creation is to call something into existence that did not previously exist. The Universe didn't exist before the beginning as stated in Genesis 1:1, no material, no light, no dark matter, no sub atomic particles, and no space. God is not subject to space, time, or matter, and is without beginning or end. Warwick makes a correct comment that the 'heaven and the earth' "is a merism meaning the entire universe.
---Glenn on 3/30/10


Cliff indeed you are getting nowhere, just spinning your wheels. If you stuck to God's word then you could get traction.

Indeed our vision of His doings is a little clouded just as the apostle Paul said "Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror, then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part, then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known." 1 Corinthians 13:12

I see no evidence that you have better vision than we.
---Warwick on 3/30/10


Warwick,I doubt that I'm getting anywhere, but I keep trying,
I never suggested that God didn't create the dust or the planet. He could have zapped man into existance, or Eden , but He didn't Altho He created the substance earlier, He used this material to "create"
If you can't see the reason for this then you'll never understand "how" God works!
In your mind He's like a magician pulling everything out of a hat! You think you know Him but your vision is vague!
Too much smoke and mirrors!
---1st_cliff on 3/30/10


Warwick, Seeing as you have difficulty with concepts..how about this,
Say I built you a set of stairs...No one would agree that I made the "wood" too. The material existed!
When God made Adam and Eve He did so from "existing" material (the dust of the ground).
The earth was formless and void, but it existed, God created ,from this lump of dirt..Paradise!
Ex Nihilo Nihil Fit! ---1st_cliff on 3/29/10
Oh that your eyes would be opened! God created from "existing" material because a few days earlier he created the earth including the dust of the ground. God is the ONLY one who can create ex nihilo. To suggest otherwise diminishes His omnipotence. It is why the big bang theory is so absurd.
---simon7348 on 3/30/10


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You know Cliff, I didn't know I had trouble with concepts before you told me I do!

I have no idea what your stairs story is supposed to convey. I am just too dumb to understand I suppose.

God alone can create from nothing. Anyone can build stairs. But try creating your own wood first.
---Warwick on 3/30/10


Warwick, Seeing as you have difficulty with concepts..how about this,
Say I built you a set of stairs, everyone agrees that it is a beautiful masterpiece that I created..No one would agree that I made the "wood" too. The material existed!
When God made Adam and Eve He did so from "existing" material (the dust of the ground).
The earth was formless and void, but it existed, God created ,from this lump of dirt..Paradise!
Ex Nihilo Nihil Fit!
---1st_cliff on 3/29/10


Maybe. But the scripture does not speak of the universe. It does use the word "worlds" plural several times. Maybe that refers to what we call the universe but it is speculation.
---jody on 3/29/10


*Heaven-yesterday-Jn1:1 IN the begnning was the Word....
*Heaven-today
*Heaven-to come-forever will be
Heb13:8
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
Ps102:25
Of old hast Thou laid the foundation of the earth:And the heavens [are] the work of Thy hands.Shall perish,but [thou]shalt endure,Yea,All of them shall wax old like a garment,As a vesture shalt Thou change them, and they shall be changed:But [thou]art the same,And Thy years shall have no end.
---char on 3/29/10


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Genesis 1:14-19 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights, the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that [it was] good. And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
God made the stars on day 4 including Antares.
---MIchael on 3/29/10


Warwick, Herein lies your problem,

Gen.1.1 "In the beginning God created the heavens (that may or may not include the universe) and the earth".
God obviously created the universe at some point in time,including Anteres and all the other super bright stars that light up space, but..
From this point on He's dealing "only" with earth! Counting each creative day!
Says nothing about at which point He created the Angels. Why? because this does not figure into earth's creation.
What was His purpose in pronouncing the light "good"? Light with respects to formerly dark earth, that is!
---1st_cliff on 3/28/10


Steveng: I do believe & take the Bible at face value. But, I'm not trying to make it say verbatum what's comfortable for me to believe.

I didn't say heaven is divided into 3 parts. I said there are 3 aspects (views) of heaven, i.e., 1.) Seeing heaven where birds fly & clouds move. 2.) Looking beyond the clouds & seeing the heavenly bodies thru the naked eye, & the further reaching lens of a telescope. 3.) Seeing infinity at heaven's highest level (the place where Most High God lives) thru God's eyes based on His word -- the Bible.

Think like a child.:) We live in the basement -- God's resides in the lofty penthouse, i.e., "One" heaven, but at vastly different levels of elevation.
---Leon on 3/29/10


Warwick,Excuse me but scripture does say all He did day 2 was separate the waters from the waters making sky in between!
All He did, not "it took Him all day to do"... There's a massive difference!

I'm afraid the astronaughts will disagree with you there...from the space station there's no day and night!
You can't see that Gen.1 is only describing "earth and it's environs"?? sure lock, stock and barrel,in this regard!---1st_cliff on 3/28/10

Genesis 1:15 illustrates the light was to give earth night and day...
---simon7348 on 3/29/10


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Cliff, the phrase 'the heavens (Hebrew samiym-place of the stars, sky and the air) and the earth' is a mereism meaning all there is. Therefore verse one says God created the place in which to place the earth (including that which we would call space) and the earth. The following verses refer to the filling of the earth and the heavens.

This is 'fleshed-out' in Exodus 20:11 'For in six-days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them. That is everything that is upon the earth and in space.

No Scripture even hints the universe was made at some other time.

Have you come to understand the mention of eternity and time together is an oxymoron?
---Warwick on 3/29/10


Warwick,Excuse me but scripture does say all He did day 2 was seperate the waters from the waters making sky in between!
So from seperating light from darkness (day and night) means there's day and night thru all the universe.
I'm afraid the astronaughts will disagree with you there...from the space station there's no day and night!
You can't see that Gen.1 is only describing "earth and it's environs"?? sure lock, stock and barrel,in this regard!
Reasoning with you is like talking to a brick wall! Why do you imagine God can't deal with one thing at a time?
---1st_cliff on 3/28/10


Cliff,
Is Gdd confined to the universe or does He exist outside the universe?
Is God constrained by time or does He move freely through it and beyond it?
---MIchael on 3/28/10


What was God doing during that never-beginning Eternity before 6000 years ago when He started Creation?

Was He planning it all?
---alan8566_0f_uk on 3/28/10


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Cliff, rudeness is rudeness.

You can see past the end of your nose but your nose is not pointing towards God's word.

You cannot understand eternity nor can you understand that God is Almighty, able to have created all there is in an earth instant, should He have chosen to do so. Unlike us He is not limited by either time or creative ability.

The universe did not exist for eternity, and darkness does not exist for One who does not need light to see, nor food to eat, or air to breathe. You do not have a Biblical understanding of the limitless power, and love of our God.

Nowhere does Scripture say God took all day to create anything. He created everything over 6 days for us, as explained in Exodus 20:8-11.
---Warwick on 3/28/10


Cliff I remind you that the term 'the heavens and the earth' is a merism meaning everything there is. Everything that was ever created.

Likewise we use the term 'lock stock and barrel' meaning everything, the totality. It refers to the 3 components which make up a double barrel shotgun. That's all there is there ain't no more.
---Warwick on 3/28/10


Leon: "I believe there are 3 aspects of one "heaven". I don't believe Paul meant he was in a literal 3rd heaven (2 Cor. 12:2-4). Rather, I think he was decribing a 3rd part of one "heaven" (paradise),..."

Why do you believe such one third of the heaven? do you not bleieve what is written at face value? Even a child can understand what is written. Read the bible through the eyes of a child and leave behind your overly educated adult mind.

There are other verses besides what is written in 2 Cor. 12:2-4 that describe all three heavens. Do an online KJV bible search for "heaven" and read in context what is revealed.
---Steveng on 3/28/10


Warwick,No rudeness intended but you just don't seem to see past your nose!
Planet Anteres is 800 times the size of the sun and 10,000 times brighter,has no relationship to earth being 600 light years away, God just happened to create it,for no apparent reason, while making the earth???
Plus all the other galaxies ,on day one,,but took all day to seperate the waters on day 2??
So you still contend that the universe was in darkness 'till 6,000 years ago??
"God saw that light was good" He didn't know that light was "GOOD" 'till then???
Tiny little minds! Your interpretation is juvenile!
---1st_cliff on 3/28/10


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Cliff your arrogance aligns you with other rude BibloSceptics.

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." "The heavens and the earth" is a merism meaning the entire universe. Examples of merisms in English are: she searched high and low, or travelled hill and vale, meaning she searched everywhere and travelled everywhere.

Therefore there is a Scripture which says when the univerese was created- on day one, "in the beginning."

How many beginnings can there be?

Remember in Exodus 20:8-11 God says He created 'The heavens and the earth" i.e. everything, in 6 24hr days!
---Warwick on 3/28/10


Okay Larry:) "In the beginning God created the heaven...", singular, not plural (G1:1).

A man I worked with asked, "Does G1:1 mean it was God's beginning also & if so who created God?" Ever so gently & patiently, I said God isn't a created being & can't be understood beyond what He says of Himself in the Bible. God alone is the Creator who gave us a record of "the created beginning" of a heaven, earth... & created life in a solar system, a small part of a vast galaxy (the Milky Way), in a universe filled with enumerable galaxies also made by Him. God knew we wouldn't completely understand. So, He simply asks us to, by faith, trust Him as He gradually shows Himself to us.
---Leon on 3/28/10


Steveng: God created "time" (day & night) & "space" (G1:1), as we know it in our solar system, when He made the earth to rotate on it's axis & revolve around the sun (G1:3-5 & 16). Void means empty, lifeless. Deep means an abyss, opening, gulf, sea, "space". (G1:2)

I believe there are 3 aspects of one "heaven". I don't believe Paul meant he was in a literal 3rd heaven (2 Cor. 12:2-4). Rather, I think he was decribing a 3rd part of one "heaven" (paradise), i.e., "a place" in God's created, infinite (limitless, unmeasurable) universe.

We live in the G1 part of the universe made long after the 1st two parts (space & paradise).
---Leon on 3/28/10


1st_cliff: "Deduction: Did God have a beginning? NO! So then niether did space or time."

You're thinking worldly thoughts, of the physical heavens. There are three heavens: the air that surrounds the earth and where the birds fly, the space where the sun, planets and stars exist, and the home of God, the kingdom of Heaven. We, as humans, could never comprehend the Heaven of God. The first two heavens and the earth can be measured, but the heaven of God cannot be measured.
---Steveng on 3/27/10


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Leon, IN THE BEGINNING God created the heavens and earth.
Come to some conclusion on the definition of "BEGINNING" and you'll have your answer.
---larry on 3/27/10


lest we forget,God is light,so wherever God is it aint dark.the dark spoken of so often in scripture has nothing to do with night,its the abscence of God in the world of men who reject him that places them in the dark.
---tom2 on 3/27/10


Warwick, Iknow it's difficult for you to grasp,but try to follow me on this:

Bible view: Gen1.2 "darkness was over the surface of the deep" vs3 "God said let there be light" (dealing only with earth)

Warwick theory: The entire universe was in total darkness 'till 6 thousand years ago when God created light,therefore He and all the Angels were floating around space in darkness! (BTW when were Angels created?)

Question, Was the entire universe in darkness or just this planet?
Answer= Now you see that Gen1 was dealing solely with earth and not outer space!

Deduction: Did God have a beginning? NO! So then niether did space or time.

---1st_cliff on 3/27/10


Warwick, There is no scripture saying when the "universe" was created.
You show me what scripture says on what "DAY" the universe was created.
Day #1 it took Him 24hrs. to seprerate light from darkness on earth ***
Day #2 It took Him 24hrs. to create an expance between the water above and the water below***
***Your theory(24hrs.)
Day#6 Yet only 24hrs. to create Man and woman,animals, name them all etc..
Don't confuse heavens with universe!
---1st_cliff on 3/27/10


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Cliff don't attempt to avoid the point. My question was "On what Scripture, science or logic do you base your assertion that "Time and space have no beginning,...."
---Warwick on 3/26/10


Yes, the third Heaven being distinct from the Universe. Genesis 1 is a non fictional narrative, and Christians believe that God presented an accurate account of the event to Moses. I would have to take Gods' word on this. Numbers 23:19, 1Samuel 15:29, Ecclesiastes 3:14, Malachi 3:6. Also, Matthew 28:18, John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:16-17, Hebrews 1:8.
---Glenn on 3/27/10


1st_cliff: "Time and space have no beginning,and outer space (universe) is not "heavens"

There are three heavens mentiioned in the bible.

1st_cliff: "Only little tiny minds believe the "entire" universe was created at that time and has only existed for 6or 7 thousand years!"

Your belief in the power of God is very, very small. God could have created the whole universe exactly how it is this very second with every atom in its place. Man would still believe that the universe was created billions of years ago.

How long would it take evolustion to resurrect a dead body (Lazarus)?
---Steveng on 3/26/10


Warwick, Jesus never said the "universe" was created at that time. He was dealing with "earth's" creation of which Man was included!
You read into it whatever takes your fancy.
You believe that for billions of years God was whirling around in empty space? OH YA!
Maybe next you'll say that God came into existance at that time too?
Scripture says there are a hundred million Angels, also standing in empty space since the "heavens" were not created "till" 6 or 7 thousand yrs. ago???
---1st_cliff on 3/26/10


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Tom2 ... Sure men believed the world was round ... a disc, just like the discs the moon and sun appear to be.

If you did not know the moon was a globe, your eyes would not tell you
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/25/10


man doesn,t think straight,for centuries man believed the earth was flat,but when he looked up into the night sky he saw a round moon,and in early morning,and late evening the sun can be seen as round,so of course the world is flat,just everything around it is round.the heavens include the universe,and everyone knows that pi are round.
---tom2 on 3/25/10


Cliff, you believe there was more than one beginning? How so?

On what Scripture, science or logic do you base your assertion that "Time and space have no beginning,...."

"Only little tiny minds believe the "entire" universe was created at that time and has only existed for 6or 7 thousand years!"

By your definition Jesus must have a tiny mind as well, as this is what He teaches as truth! He said Adam was made at the beginning of this creation, in which we live, and that the genealogies connect Adam and Jesus over a span of approximately 4,000 years.

Maybe He got it all wrong Cliff?
---Warwick on 3/25/10


Since the bible is dealing with the creation of earth and it's suroundings it's "that" beginning!
Time and space have no beginning,and outer space (universe) is not "heavens"
Only little tiny minds believe the "entire" universe was created at that time and has only existed for 6or 7 thousand years!
---1st_cliff on 3/25/10


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In the Bible history of creation, it is written, "In the beginning God created the heaven & the earth." Does the referenced heaven, as mentioned in G1, imply the universe or perhaps something else?
---Leon on 3/25/10


Larry: How many universes are there? Doesn't "uni" mean one? :)
---Leon on 3/25/10


Leon, "The"
---Eloy on 3/25/10


Simon is correct, it is an assumption based upon limited knowledge, that the universe is x billion of years old. It cannot be proven by the scientific method.

Fortunately the Bible is not a scientific text book as they quickly become out of date when new evidence contradicts old evidence. However when the Bible speaks upon scientific matters it is correct. This should be no surprize as the God of the Bible is He who made it all.
---Warwick on 3/25/10


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it was the begining of time,and space.when God placed the stars,and galaxies into motion some billions of light years away from earth,iam sure he knew some wizzard brained scientist would make assumptions,and he would laugh at these assumptions,you know how to spell assume?and what happens when you do?
ass u me
---tom2 on 3/25/10


Which universe?
---larry on 3/24/10


Eloy: Who's beginning? :)
---Leon on 3/24/10


Genesis 1:1- "In the beginning God created.
---Eloy on 3/24/10


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Cluny,you are so right about the Bible not being or meant to be a Scientific Text or read as one. That's why I am against mixing Science with what can only be by faith,belief in God and his Word. Science has always been one of my greatest interests since childhood but there's no doubt as a child of God I must accept and live by the Bible not adding anything to it or to explain them away or change them by using Science. God's people should not try to keep one foot in what the world says and another in what God says,it weakens our faith. 2 Corinthians 5:7 We must live/walk by faith not sight. Hebrews 11:6 Without faith its impossible to please God.
---Darlene_1 on 3/24/10


That's interesting, where in the Bible does it say or imply that pi equals 3?
As for rabbits, the Hebrew word translated 'hare' is actually an unknown word. It is only used 2 times in the Bible and most consider the word not to be a rabbit.
Although bats are not birds according to current animal classifications, they would be made on day 5 along with them and the pterodactyl. 'owph being better translated 'fliers' than fowl, though most are fowl.
A little research for a better understanding, but at least I don't doubt your salvation.
---MIchael on 3/23/10


This subject is as old as the hills, but let's reason this out.

"...God created the heaves and the earth..," Are there not three heavens?

"The Universe is about 13.75 Billion yeas old empirically measured by analysis of background radiation, while Earth is only 4.54 billion years old."

Man measures the universe according to modern technology. Yes, light from a distant star takes 13.75 billions years to get here, but God created every atom in its place as he spoke it into existance. So the light reaching earth was immediate.

If you don't believe that the heavens and the earth was created in six days, then you surely don't believe the miracles of God through Jesus.
---Steveng on 3/23/10


As I've said, Darlene, the Bible is not supposed to be a scientific text, or read as one.

If you do, you will have to say that pi equals 3, bats are birds, and rabbits chew cud, none of which are true.
---Cluny on 3/23/10


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Cluny,yes it matters but not for the sake of being right. What matters,that is what the Bible says and no other beliefs can be accepted by those who follow God and his Word as fact and above all as the only truth for Christains. For if we believe the Worlds view of the Universe then we must make Gods Word a lie. Which it isn't. Which if we love God above all then we much choose God and his Word above all.
---Darlene_1 on 3/23/10


Does it matter?

He still made the universe, too, and the chronology doesn't matter.
---Cluny on 3/23/10


Opps I left something out. Its Genesis 1:1-18. Since the Universe is made up by our Sun,Moon and the Stars,which some of the Starlights are what we have named Planets,then I can safely say the Earth,one of the Starlights,and all the rest of the Universe were all created at the same time. When will we all get wise to the fact all kinds of tests and measurements are created by man to prove what the men are seeking to prove. That means the test-measurements will be skewed to prove their points. Those who cling so tightly to what man invented,believes and teaches,making it to be inerrant,are not holding tight enough to God and his Word,which are inerrant.
---Darlene_1 on 3/23/10


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