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Are You Hated By People

Are you hated as John 15:18 explains?

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 ---mima on 3/22/10
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Adrain, the reason you feel half evil and half righteous is because you are listening to people like Kathr who teach that a person has an Old nature and a New nature. That is false doctrine. You are being transformed to the image of Christ, and that transformation begin at salvation. 2 Cor. 3:18 says, "But we (believers) all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord"
The Spirit's indwelling of the believer brings about a more righteous life and heart. The Spirit is in the believer and works with the believer, but does not become the believer. The Holy Spirit works to produce sanctified human beings.
---MarkV. on 4/7/10


MarkV, FREE WILL was given to man. If that thought is in conflict with your god who has everything as a robot, then I can see the conflict you are under struggling with scripture.

But when you can discuss without that snake poison under your breath and mixed with your words...we will talk.

AND when you call Donna66 a LIAR for also saying we have two natures then I will see the sincerity of your comments to me, that you also call everyone LIARS who believe we have two natures.

Until then MarkV, you are two faced and a hypocrite and YOUR hatred for me is obvious to all who see your double standard.
---kathr4453 on 4/7/10


Kathr, You have called me Bobby, Mary many times already, but I am not you who has done that many times, even to the extend of giving yourself credit. What you are doing is giving out heretical views to others. You did mention that people have two natures, an old and a new. You had also mentioned that the Son of God did not exist in the Old Testament, you also pretend to be a sister in Christ, which is another lie. Now you say that God is not willing that any should parrish, but many are parrishing. Even God cannot get things done right. What you have is another god.
And all your words are but a smoke screen to impress others how great you are and how bad I am. It will work, only on those who are blind already and cannot see the Truth.
---MarkV. on 4/7/10


7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

11And he gave some, apostles, and some, prophets, and some, evangelists, and some, pastors and teachers,

12For the perfecting of the saints, ----13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive,

Even rebuking those who say God created other people than Adam and Eve.
---kathr4453 on 4/7/10


There ya go MarkV, God is not WILLING anyone to perish.

Romans 12:1 & 2 if obeyed WILL KNOW the Will of God!!! Maybe you haven't obeyed and that why you don't know God's will!
---kathr4453 on 4/5/10

Hasn't seemed to help you obey scripture or GOD any. MarkV is stubborn and hard headed and resistant to things that scare his knowledge base....but, he has forgotten more than I've seen you exhibit. You are out of control....desiring to be a teachie/preachie, without first being a student.
Rom 12:7 Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth,on teaching,

(Note: above it says "he", something you've read over. You can't obey a simple thing...how can you teach a complext thing??
---Trav on 4/6/10




MarkV, why do you hide behind the name Bobby1?

The same here you said markV on another blog almost to the same words.

You are the one needing Baptism into his death that the Body of SIN is destroyed...not covered. Romans 6!!!

To possess the outworking of the Righteousness of Christ, learn from Paul....Philippians 3----not my own righteousness but the Righteousness that comes by Faith of Christ..that I may KNOW Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His suffering, being made conformable to His death that YOU may attain to the resurrection ..not that you have already attained..but you are pressing on....

That's not a covering MarkV, that is the very LIFE of Christ in you.....
---kathr4453 on 4/6/10


Seek and ye shall find!


Even in the OT God said:
Jeremiah 29:13
And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

Who here is doing the seeking?

Again Ephesians 1:11 you forgot verse 12

12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

Nothing here about some secret we can't know, or those excluded from salvation. All things include the fulfillment of the promises to the Nation Israel as well, when Jesus returns WITH US to set up His earthly Kingdom Reign.

Are YOU MarkV going to be to the praise of His Glory at that time? Do you UNDERSTAND the calling out of the Church?and God's PURPOSE for US with Christ!!!??
---kathr4453 on 4/6/10


"Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of Him with whom we have to do" Hebr.4:13.



Isn't Hebrews 4 the place we are told ALL can come boldly to the throne of GRACE to find help and mercy?

Thank you Jesus for opening the way to the Throne of Grace. In the OT only the High priest once a year could enter for the people, but now we don't need an earthly high priest to make reconciliation for anyone. Jesus our has entered once and FOR ALL. Anyone can approach God through Jesus Christ, and not just once a year either, but anytime anyplace...AND we don't need the Pope or Father Flanagan to do it for us!
---kathr4453 on 4/6/10


Yes God would KNOW Israel. Ezekiel 11:5 is to Israel as well.


Amos 3
1Hear this word that the LORD hath spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying,

2You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.

MarkV please mixing OT to Israel with NT to the Church....
---kathr4453 on 4/6/10


God says, "For I know the things that come into your mind, every one of them" Ezek. 11:5. All that we do, "Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of Him with whom we have to do" Hebr.4:13.
To say that He wants everyone to be save and not everyone is, makes God impotent. But does what He so desires for Scripture declares, "He "worketh all things after the counsel of His own will" Eph. 1:11. Such a God cannot be found out by searching for Him, He can be known only as He is revealed to the heart by the Holy Spirit through the Word.
The God of Scripture can only be known by those to whom He makes Himself known.
---MarkV. on 4/6/10




I stick to what I said. Miche, Michael_e, and mima had NO PROBLEM in what I posted.

You do, because of your RCC roots..yes, even Calvinists who believe in infant baptism have RCC roots.

When I was Baptized after receiving Jesus Christ my pastor said:

BURIED WITH HIM in Baptism unto death and raised up together with Him a NEW CREATURE!!! and it was total submersion...

Again, sprinkling came from OT roots..

Numbers 8:7
And thus shalt thou do unto them, to cleanse them: Sprinkle water of purifying upon them, ---.

We're not under OT types and shadows.

1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us ---- by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
---kathr4453 on 4/6/10


That is the true beauty of Scripture. It is sound for doctrine, but not because there is formula we can figure out. It is because there is a mystery that always keeps us asking, seeking, and knocking. As a linguist, I know that semantics are important. However, the job of the Holy Spirit is to convict and convince not ours.

Anyway, I read a lot more than I reply. I was once in the blog, blog, blog trap before. I almost got sucked in again. Thank you for jarring me to my senses again..
---Joseph on 4/6/10


Kathr, people are starting to tell how you twist the word of God to make it fit your lies. Joseph sees it and so do I and so does mary Donna and others. In your message you say people don't understand, so when they oppose you, you condemn them in some way. Mixing passages together to bring your false doctrines has being your trade for a long time to form a lie, (people with two natures was a beauty,) just to impress others. There is no truth in you Kathr because your heart is not right with God. You should repent and be baptize in the name of the Lord and you will be save. When you do, it will be because of the Spirits conviction in your heart. To this day, you are not getting one.
---Bobby-1 on 4/6/10


Joseph, I explained what Father Son and Holy Spirit mean. If you had read ALL of what I said, you would have understood as well.

In Acts, they were baptized in JESUS CHRIST NAME to receive the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

There's no magic is sprinkling water on someone with the words...I BAPTIZE YOU in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit.

Who is the I here? Even John the Baptize didn't say I BAPTIZE YOU! He said REPENT and BE BAPTIZED!!!

What is true Baptism? Read Romans 6 and Colossians 2.....Jesus is who Baptizes.
---kathr4453 on 4/6/10


Kathr quotes "and our Baptism is not in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit. That's not even in Scripture."

Kathr later quotes, "Jesus said to baptize in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit,

You might be a good teacher as indicated, but please take a break. It is not exact Scripture but Paul suggessts that we consider ourselves so we don't not also go down in flames.
---Joseph on 4/5/10


To address the original question...One thing that Jesus is delivering me from is slight paranoia which almost slipped into full-blown pathology. These days, even though I still have the patterns of deceptive misconceptions, I am starting to understand hatred in light of hatred for Jesus.

Fortunately, I am overcoming my stinkin thinkin as the Holy Spirit is changing my mind and its sinful patterns.
---Joseph on 4/5/10


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Yes I am hated as explained in John 15:18. The encouragement is that god is there. Even if you have no earthly friends God said he would be a friend to the friendless.
---amanda on 4/5/10


Second, I do not know His will, so I intercede for those who are lost, that it be the will of God that He will have mercy on them as He did with me. ---.
---MarkV. on 4/4/10

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


There ya go MarkV, God is not WILLING anyone to perish.

So then If God is not WILLING anyone to perish, then we need to get out here and share the Gospel to anyone who will listen.

Romans 12:1 & 2 if obeyed WILL KNOW the Will of God!!! Maybe you haven't obeyed and that why you don't know God's will!
---kathr4453 on 4/5/10


Alan, No, I'm not hoping He changes His mind to what He has already known to be true. In fact He knows everything already. The amount which make His Church, who they are, when and where they will be born, when they will die, He even knows what we will ask before we ask it. Nothing is left un-attended. "A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps" Prov. 16:9. What assurance, what strength, what comfort this should give the real Christian. "My times are in Thy hand" Psa. 31:15. Then let me, "Rest in the Lord, and wait patiently for Him" Psa.37:7.
"But He is in one mind, and who can turn Him? and what His soul desireth, even that He doeth" Job 23:13.
---MarkV. on 4/5/10


MarkV "God does not change His mind because I pray, He has chosen His elect from the foundation of the world"

So God has already decided everything.

"I intercede for those who are lost, that it be the will of God that He will have mercy on them as He did with me"

That sounds like you asking Him to change His decision.
---alan8566_of_uk on 4/5/10


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Alan, there's three reasons why I pray to God. One, Since I came to Christ my dependence is on Him and not on myself. Second, I do not know His will, so I intercede for those who are lost, that it be the will of God that He will have mercy on them as He did with me. Third, because no matter what the outcome is, I know in my heart what He wills is the right decision, for He makes no mistakes.
God does not change His mind because I pray, He has chosen His elect from the foundation of the world. (called out ones). "Elect, according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ" 1 Peter 1:2. God knows His elect, If He didn't He would not be God.
---MarkV. on 4/4/10


MarkV ... You've said elsewhere that the Saved were chosen by God from the beginning of time.

That being the case, and God has already selected them, why do you say "We need to pray even more fervently for the unsaved loved ones in our life, that God would allow them to see outside the bondage of sin to the grace and love He has for them, and to the fullness of life they can have in Him"

Do you think that by us praying for them He will change His mind, and save them after all?
---alan8566_of_uk on 4/4/10


Andy3996-- I completely agree. American Christians rarely, if ever, know what it is to be "hated" because of their faith. They may suffer the disdain of people who disagree with them. And that may cause hurt feelings. But to be "hated" as Christ was "hated"? No.

Christians in other parts of the world DO know what it is to be hated. They suffer all manner of deprivation and even death
for the cause of Christ. Thanks for reminding us of this.
---Donna66 on 4/4/10


I know most of you believe that when we pray to God and ask Him to bring light to a lost soul, that it is God who makes it possible for the lost to come to Christ, otherwise you would not be praying to God . That only through a supernatural act of God can a person see, hear and understand Gospel Truth.
Yet from the beginning most of you argue it is the power within men that make him change towards God. And argue day and night that man has a free will, and can come when he wants in his fallen state, blind to the Truth. That some how he can open his own eyes and ears and give himself faith and create in himself a love for Christ on his own while lost. They are spiritually depraved.
---MarkV. on 4/4/10


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Rob: When you claim to abide by 1 Pet 3:15, don't forget the part about "meekness and fear."
---jerry6593 on 4/4/10


Amen Mark E., Markv,

We need to pray everyday and fervently!

We also need make sure we are shining the light of God within us as beacons to a lost and dying world.
How we as Christians live is an example of how Great GOD REALLY IS.
If he can take a mess like me and clean me up, he can do it with anyone.
We have too many Christians not really living as Christians. This gives the enemy ammunition
to put in the sinners ear that we aren't really saved if we are living the same as them. We are supposed to be a peculiar people. NOT like the world.
---miche3754 on 4/2/10


The very reason we pray for God to change them and make them see, otherwise they will never see.
---MarkV. on 4/2/10


Oh I do agree we should pray.

Actually when we pray, we should pray that God would open our mouths to speak BOLDLY the Gospel,

Here what Paul said:

Ephesians 6:18-20

18Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints,

19And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

20For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

---kathr4453 on 4/2/10


Mark E, I really believe in what you just posted. The very reason that I speak for the Lord. Because no one can come to Christ on his own. Something supernatural has to happen to them. But they argue against that power. They say they are not depraved at all towards spiritual matters. If that is the case then your post is meaningless. Here is what you said which is the Truth,
"We need to pray even more fervently for the unsaved loved ones in our life, that God would allow them to see outside the bondage of sin to the grace and love He has for them, and to the fullness of life they can have in Him"
The very reason we pray for God to change them and make them see, otherwise they will never see.
---MarkV. on 4/2/10


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we are also crucified to the world and the world to us.
---kathr4453 on 4/1/10

I find this to be the largest barrier to people coming to salvation in Christ, that they have to give up the world and its pleasures.

Perhaps it has always been this way, but it seems that the world with all its technology has even greater allure now and even easier access to sin.

We need to pray even more fervently for the unsaved loved ones in our life, that God would allow them to see outside the bondage of sin to the grace and love He has for them, and to the fullness of life they can have in Him.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/1/10


If the Gospel is hidden , its hidden from those who are lost. Baptized into His death and resurrection life IS the heart and core of SALVATION! Its the doctrine of the CROSS that we are persecuted for preaching, stated in Galatians re-iterated again Galatians 2:20-21, concluding Galatians 6, we are also crucified to the world and the world to us.

John the Baptist Baptized with water, but said " He who comes after me will Baptize with FIRE". The FIRE burns away the chaff of the old man/flesh *1st Peter 4.

Jesus said to baptize in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit, clearly saying not to Baptize with the baptism of Johns baptism. And not even John baptized infants.
---kathr4453 on 4/1/10


---kathr4453 on 3/30/10 We are Baptized into His death and raised a New Creation in Christ!!! Our Individual outward testimony of our personal faith in the finished work of Christ!!!
Paul was AND IS hated for this same doctrine, so you are in excellent company

Amen and God Bless you
---michael_e on 4/1/10

Amen!!!
Kath(you too Michael) is a good teacher and loves the Lord.
It is too bad some just don't want to hear.
Maybe they need to be fed milk instead of the meat of God's word, huh?
---miche3754 on 4/1/10


---kathr4453 on 3/30/10 We are Baptized into His death and raised a New Creation in Christ!!! Our Individual outward testimony of our personal faith in the finished work of Christ!!!
Paul was AND IS hated for this same doctrine, so you are in excellent company

Amen and God Bless you
---michael_e on 4/1/10


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People disagree because I do not follow their mainstream worship style. Instead I'm a bible student following Gods word "old school" with out the new age drama.
I'm not to be confused with Jw's because that is not whom we are or ever was.I get hated for wearing a mantilla type headcovering(small oval/circle shape~like catholics) during service because God commanded me too & it offended some other women ,but now I am around other headcovering sisters. I get "hated" because I homeschool my boys ages 9 & 5 in a christian curriculum.So doing the will of God in different areas can run into alot of disagreements.
---candice on 4/1/10


I am having bo trouble understanding Kathr.
---mima on 4/1/10


I have learned I am am despised and probably hated by many so called teachers, preachers who claim to be of God, when they learn I am diligent in following the command found in 2 Timothy 2:14-19, along with the example found in Acts 17:11

It seems they hate me even more if I should ask any question about someting they have taught. I guess they believe what is written in 1 Peter 3:15 does not apply to them. `
---Rob on 4/1/10


Igantius, you spoke the truth about Kathr. You cannot have a good discussion with her because she uses the little she knows, builds a story so big, and claims you are that. She speeks of no one thing but all kinds of things to make her story true. Then turns around and accuses you of being something or another for not agreeing with her. She cannot change her nature, God has to change her. She changes her name and even that does not change who she is. All her religious talk is useless.
---Bobby-1 on 4/1/10


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Rob: "Jerry, Satan is also exhalted when people are too afraid or cowardly to TAKE A STAND FOR GOD'S TRUTH!"

I too believe in standing for the truth - as revealed in the Bible, and not in the opinion of men.

But I learned long ago that the way we speak the truth is as important as the truth itself - else it is a waste of our time and does a disservice to the cause of God.

Eph 4:14,15 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive, But SPEAKING THE TRUTH IN LOVE, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
---jerry6593 on 4/1/10


Oh, well, ofcourse. Anyone who is really chosen by Christ is. God's people do not belong to this world. We don't even belong in it. And the worse things get, because of sin, the more this world doesn't feel like home. We, God's people, belong in heaven. Come on Jesus+++
---catherine on 3/31/10


As Rhonda pointed it out, Christianity lives with some sort of "martyr syndrome" everybody wants to be a martyr, so if anyone hates another man's doctrine, we tend to take that personally. let me point out however what real martyrs are, My mother was chased out of her parrents house because she received the Lord. People threw stones at me because i preached salvation, in the church i prescide a member is trhreatened with death by her husband because she has accepted God. one of our churches has been burned down Four times because we are there. this is normal for all churches around.
lets face it, Western Christians do not experience this kind of true martyrship much. instead they quarrel about dogma's
---Andy3996 on 3/31/10


all belief systems are hated especially religious beliefs

and every BRAND of religious christianity believes they are 'hated' as described in John 15:18

ask a catholic if they are hated and they tell you all other christian brands hate them

ask a baptist or any other christian religious system and they will all tell a story of how they are 'hated' in the name of a christ too 2Corin 11:4

one's who look for their martyr-ship pointing out John 15:18 as their 'proof' can never see they do not abide in John 15:10 ...seeing religious christianity has abolished Gods commandments
---Rhonda on 3/30/10


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Btw, if wisdom and knowledge are gifts of the Holy Spirit, where does willful ignorance come from?
---Cluny on 3/26/10

Can't get willful ignorance from GOD by asking. Generated personally from other afflictions. Perhaps not of their own making. Obvious sometimes when one desires a title, authority or has been hurt/jealous by their target.
When one would lie, or deceive blatantly they can be in fear of loss....David acted idiot once to get out of trouble. Same David who slew thousands.

Thousands I've heard read these posts. I consider the message the silent sheep hear...not necessarily the heathen.
Psalm 44:11
Thou hast given us like sheep appointed for meat, and hast scattered us among the heathen.
---Trav on 3/30/10


In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 3/26/10


How would you like it if I addressed you as Ignoramus or Cluny as Cluless?

You see, there is a difference between calling names and making attacks personal in nature, and another that presents FACTS that one might find hard to deal with.

AND here's a FACT. It's GOD who Justifies the ungodly. Your infant water baptism CANNOT justify an infant...and our Baptism is not in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit. That's not even in Scripture.You made it up!!!

We are Baptized into His death and raised a New Creation in Christ!!! Our Individual outward testimony of our personal faith in the finished work of Christ!!!
---kathr4453 on 3/30/10


Part 2 Please post.

"Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with Him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life" in the power of the Holy Spirit.
This is what is meant by Father Son and Holy Spirit. (Romans 6:3-4).

In ACTS they were Baptized in JESUS NAME.

First:the person must have trusted in Jesus Christ as Savior. Second: understand what baptism signifies. It is a publicly declaring of faith in Christ in identification with Christs death, burial, and resurrection.
---kathr4453 on 3/30/10


Jerry, Satan is also exhalted when people are too afraid or cowardly to TAKE A STAND FOR GOD'S TRUTH!
---Rob on 3/29/10


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Satan is exhalted when Christians attack one another.
---jerry6593 on 3/27/10


"Cluny, ignorant people don't know how to discuss, they just make rude assaults like you have here." (Kathr)

And you are talking Kathr, with all your rude assaults that you made to Catholics, Eastern Orthodox Christians? Are you calling yourself "ignorant"?

" You are bullies, making fun of people"

You do the same with us Eastern Orthodox Christians, Catholics, Calvinists, etc. You make fun of us, pass false witness against us, etc.

You are perfect example of everything that you condemning in your posts.

It takes one to know one.....

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 3/26/10


Kathr,

You can't have a discussion with anyone here without resorting to insults, conspiracy theories, and flat out lieing. Just look at all the Anti-Catholic, Anti-Calvinist, Anti-Orthodox bigotry that you spurn in your posts. Look at all the conspiracy theories that you have posted against the RCC. Such writings will make a professional conclude that you have Schizophrenia (i.e., hallucinations, paranoid, bizarre delusions). The signs are there honey.

You want respect, you have to give it. I do not mind having a humane and descent discussion with anyone about Eastern Orthodoxy, but people like you, one must conclude that such civilized discussions are impossible.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 3/26/10


Cluny, ignorant people don't know how to discuss, they just make rude assaults like you have here. You asked me a question so you can come back with a rude snide remark. Do you think you are cute or funny? You CAN'T answer my questions so you blow a smoke screen to your own ineptness.



This is something you, Bobby 1, mary and markv all have in common. You are bullies, making fun of people like Eloy and anyone else you think you can bully up on calling them crazy etc....and you point fingers at me?

Even Father Branden doesn't do that. And I don't believe he ever will. But I wonder if he still thinks you are a really as Godly and HOLY as he first stated or if you have totally embarrassed him saying he knows you.
---kathr4453 on 3/26/10


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\\It is impossible to hate the childish,the ignorant or insanely silly.\\

Quite right.

The very fact that a-kathr says she's hated means she's not telling the truth.

Btw, if wisdom and knowledge are gifts of the Holy Spirit, where does willful ignorance come from?
---Cluny on 3/26/10


"mima, I'm hated for telling the truth." (Kathr)

No. You are perhaps hated by some because of your constant lies that you tell about Christians. ...posted some wild conspiracy theories (yup...those "truths" that you speak of) against them.
But, when we tell you Truth, you are too stubborn to receive it with joy.
---Ignatius on 3/25/10

It is impossible to hate the childish,the ignorant or insanely silly. It is sad, to see loneliness, and desire for authority cause a break with scriptures. The lord can use us all for his purposes....some make perfect opportunity's to share truth and scripture witnessing scripture. Perhaps through biblical ignorance she will be blessed. First are last last first.
---Trav on 3/26/10


\\Cluny, RCC is the Roman Empire in Drag. The desire to conquer the world is still there. It just exchanged it's gods and goddesses with Saints and Mary replaced Dianna! \\

Et reliqua.

Once more, a-kathr, you prove you do NOT understand what you read.

Orthodoxy does NOT mean "Orthodox Judaism."

Orthodoxy refers to the Eastern Orthodox Christian Church which Jesus founded and Rome and from which her Protestant daughters fell away.
---Cluny on 3/26/10


Kathr again you have written on 3/24/10

"jim, I once heard a wise pastor say the greatest enemy of the Church are carnal Christians accusing fellow Christians of things they are to immature and ignorant to understanding."

These words came from you and it is you who is accusing fellow christians of many things. Your example is you.
---Bobby-1 on 3/26/10


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Cluny, RCC is the Roman Empire in Drag. The desire to conquer the world is still there. It just exchanged it's gods and goddesses with Saints and Mary replaced Dianna!

But if you mean traditions from Orthodox Judaism, Hardly. But if you mean The POPE standing as though he were in the Levitical Priesthood, carrying on a mass just as Israel did on the day of Atonement. Even to the point of a mocking Jubilee, going through a door where all sin is forgiven (however nothing about Judaism there).

But in Christianity, Jesus is that Door, and ONLY through Him is one forgiven. Peter, Paul etc never re-established orthodox Judaism mingled with Roman gods and goddesses.

---kathr4453 on 3/26/10


\\Do you not also practice many of the TRADITIONS of the RCC.\\

It would be closer to accuracy to say that the Roman Catholic Church practices some of the traditions she received from Orthodoxy, but rejected others, and invented new ones.

Just like Protestants did later when they left their mother Rome.

Tell me, a-kathr. What authority do you have for 27 books in the NT, and just those 27, other than tradition?

You don't think the NT dropped down from heaven already written, do you?

I'm not even going to ask about the OT, because you probably have a Bible full of holes, rather than a whole Bible.
---Cluny on 3/25/10


She does not believe that God by grace saves anyone, but that fallan man through his free will decides out of his own heart to love Christ, so man by his own works receives salvation. -------MarkV. on 3/25/10


I believe it is ONLY by Grace, Jesus Finished work on the cross that I am saved, forgiven of sin and will spend eterity In Heaven. MarkV believes I saved myself because he says faith is WORKS if you are not Born Again FIRST to be given faith to believe. He believe all who heard the Gospel and believe the Report Jesus died for our sin are not saved at all..ONLY HIM AND HIS WAY. However Charles Stanley who he respects believes as I do. Can you see the total hypocrisy here?
---kathr4453 on 3/25/10


Hated? Yes. Feared? Definitely. When Christians walk in the Spirit of God, those who think with only a carnal understanding are frightened by what they don't understand, suspicious of what they cannot see, and squirrely around people that don't react the way they expect them to.

---Elaine on 3/25/10


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I think Cluny brushed lightly over the answer to this question with his first post.

We are called to a life that is obedient, submissive, harmonious, humble, and hospitable to all people, regardless of what they say or do to us (1 Peter 2 & 4). When we are hated by the world for ourselves or for our own actions, well, we deserve the consequences and it brings no glory at all to God.

However, when we are associated with Christ, and put on His attributes, even though we may suffer at the hands of the world and not retaliate, the world will hate us, because they have hated Him and they hate the love we have inside us.

This is the way we should be hated by the world.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/25/10


Ignatius,Cluny

Please answer these questions yes or no.

Do you believe in and practice the 7 sacraments as does the RCC?

Do you not also have confession you present to your priests and they have the power to forgive sin...as you do have those calling themselves FATHER?

Do you not also claim your church was founded on the Apostle Bartholomew just as Rome has it claim to fame in Peter?

Do you not also practice many of the TRADITIONS of the RCC.
Do you practice infant baptism and say it is necessary for salvaion?



In spite of all you say about GRACE etc, the above list would say you have a different definition of GRACE than is taught in scripture.

THIS is what I'm addressing.
---kathr4453 on 3/25/10


I have talked about many of the doctrines the RCC teach. I do not know the history of the Eastern Orthodox Church since they are many. What I do know is that in the RCC salvation is by the Grace of God and man's works. Which is the same salvation that Kathr believes. She does not believe that God by grace saves anyone, but that fallan man through his free will decides out of his own heart to love Christ, so man by his own works receives salvation. Just another way of salvation by works of a righteous deed. No difference in doctrine, only explained different then the RCC.

Kathr thought that I was confused by my 3/24/10 answer, for I was not speaking about the Pharisees, but didn't want to name who I was speaking of, but now she know who.
---MarkV. on 3/25/10


"mima, I'm hated for telling the truth." (Kathr)

No. You are perhaps hated by some because of your constant lies that you tell about Christians. You have bash the RCC many times and posted some wild conspiracy theories (yup...those "truths" that you speak of) against them. You have spread lies about us Eastern Orthodox Christians (i.e., saying we believe one must earn God's grace, believe in works salvation, etc). Such behavior alone will cause one to hate you. But didn't Jesus say to love our enemies? So I love you Kathr!

But, when we tell you the Truth, you are too stubborn to receive it with joy.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 3/25/10


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Mima, you can now see the truth of what I said by the answers given on what I said. These evil people tempt you, just like Jesus was tempted, to try to cause you to sin. The same tactic, nothing has change. They stalk you calling you names in every blog to get your attention, discredit you, so that you will respond in anger, but "Greater is He that is in me then he who is in the world," and I rebuke her in the name of Jesus Christ every single day until that person is changed by God.
---MarkV. on 3/24/10


\\Personally I don't have to like someone's personality. BUT if they are speaking the truth, I LOVE them as my own body.
---kathr4453 on 3/24/10\\

I know you want credit for this, but when some of us have spoken the truth you you, reject it.
---Cluny on 3/24/10


jim, I once heard a wise pastor say the greatest enemy of the Church are carnal Christians accusing fellow Christians of things they are to immature and ignorant to understanding. Baby Christians follow men, use commentaries as their word to assault others, and believe their denomination is far superior to anyone else. They also fail to see God has Gifted each believer with tools to keep us grounded in the faith. Many resent the Gifts others have or deny the Spiritual Gifts altogether, or even fail to realize the different growth levels of each member in the body. It's cliques that destroy this unity.

Personally I don't have to like someone's personality. BUT if they are speaking the truth, I LOVE them as my own body.
---kathr4453 on 3/24/10


What really is happening is that you get tempted to answer back the same way, and there is where you sin. They tempt you enough to cause you to sin. It is a tactic they learn from the devil and they do it well.
Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God,"---- ---"
---MarkV. on 3/24/10


markv, you are confused. Those were Pharisees who hated Jesus and did not believe He was the Son of God. Are you saying they caused Jesus to SIN? or Jesus caused them to sin....that's the strangest interpretation I have ever heard in my life.

sounds like something a 5 year old would say! mommy,mommy, the devil made me do it!!!
---kathr4453 on 3/24/10


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John 15 we begin being told to "abide in Him." Jesus doesn't change teh subject by vs 18, but takes us deeper into what Abiding in Christ means..LITERALLY. To Abide in Christ is what gives us teh very source of our life, fruit-bearing, fellowship, with God and who our TRUE BROTHERS/SISTERS are. It's also why the world/false religion hates us. The same hatred for Jesus by the PHARISEES,is what drove such hatred resulting in Christ's Cricifixtion. Our identifying with Him in Crucifixion is what this world and all false religion hates...THE CROSS and our lives that bear to that truth. CHRIST PLUS NOTHING..

Our lives are a LIVING Testimony being indwelt with the Holy Spirit manifesting HIS boldness we possess in Truth and LIGHT.
---kathr4453 on 3/24/10


mima, I'm hated for telling the truth. I use scripture to back up what I'm saying. Ephesians says the WORD is a light that shines on the darkness of false doctrine. WE are hated, not because we are anything of ourselves, but because we know truth and have discernment of lies.

Just recently I was assaulted for saying the Eastern Orthodox is closely related to RCC. Oh they may not submit to the Head of Rome, but they still believe that the 7 sacraments ( just like RCC) are necessary for salvation.

But, MarkV here, either is clueless or just hates me so much he failed to confront with the truth, loving every minute of my bashing.

MarkV's past history with RCC should know the history of Eastern Orthodox...Salvation by WORKS!!!
---kathr4453 on 3/24/10


Mima, I believe that many on line are not really saved at all. Of course no one knows who is, but their actions are many times evil in content. Some stalk you on every blog. Trying their best everyday to discredit you, and turn what you say to a lie. What really is happening is that you get tempted to answer back the same way, and there is where you sin. They tempt you enough to cause you to sin. It is a tactic they learn from the devil and they do it well.
Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God,"
and later says to the same people, "You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do"
---MarkV. on 3/24/10


what about christians accusing fellow christians.
---jim on 3/23/10


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I'm not hated by my worldly friends, they all respect honour and love me to bits and a few of them would even put their lives down for me. my problem however is "as on friend indicated", that i dont know how to compromise,when faith is concerned, and consequently since i always talk about Jesus, they cannot stand being with me a long time.
---Andy3996 on 3/23/10


I wouldn't say hated, but my mother shed some light for me last week and said to me, your friends have always been jealous of you Donna.

I had to think about it and I believe it's because my one friend has a Bachelors degree and yet she said I made more money than her and that wasn't fair. I guess she never heard of God's favor being upon ones life.

My other friends expect me to pay for stuff they want and sometimes I do, sometimes I don't, so they get mad at me. But I wouldn't use the word hate.

I have been betrayed, brutally betrayed once in my lifetime. Now that hurt.
---Donna5535 on 3/23/10


Well I don't have any enemies,it's just that all my friends hate me!
---1st_cliff on 3/22/10


There is not a soul born upon this earth that will not be hated by another my friend.
---Connie_Reason on 3/22/10


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what i dont get is why they say,
"i love you", till you turn you back,lol,
---kevin on 3/23/10


jesus said we would be hated,why?because the world hates him.the answer is yes.
---tom2 on 3/23/10


Some people confuse being hated with merely being disagreed with.

Others make themselves obnoxious in the Name of Jesus, and falsely boast that the justly deserved social consequences are hatred for Christ's sake.

Such people don't have a clue about what real hatred of Christians is like. If you really want to know about it, look at mahometan countries.
---Cluny on 3/22/10


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