Do We Pay For Sin
When we truly repent and God forgives our sins, does He really forget it? The Bible says we reap what we sow, does that mean then that in spite of having truly repented and being forgiven we still need to pay for the sin?
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---Lyd on 3/25/10
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If God forgets our confessed sins then when he disciplines us does he not know why? How can it be both ways?
---Bill_Kirk on 4/30/12|
Haz, let me say that we discussed this subject last night in our Bible study class. Many said the same thing you are saying. Others said what I was saying. But our pastor was there and he made it clear, that what you were saying is very true. It is a matter of how we read the passages, "dead in sin" or "dead to sin" and what it all means.
I said I was glad you did not sin, because it seems that when discussions are made, soon after, accusations come out, and sin abounds. The Word of God gets lost in all that is said. And pride takes over. So thank you again, you and Duane who make some great points. I love discussing matters of faith with those who love to discuss them also. Peace I leave you.
---Mark_V. on 7/10/10|
Mark_V thank you for your time in our sharing of scriptures. And of course thank you for noting that I was "not sinning", even though we differ on it's application to Christians. And, I had noticed that you have your hands full at a number of other blogs too. In my circumstances I could not handle as many as you do.
---Haz27 on 7/10/10|
Hi Lyd, when God forgives your sin He remembers it no more it is thrown into the sea of forgetfullness.If you have poured out your heart to God for forgiveness and recognise that only through the blood of Jesus can He forgive your sins he will.but if you continue in sin,...whatever it may be ( look in new testament ) and don't truely repent and walk in righteousness, then there are consequences to your sin,...you give the devil a foothold. when you knowingly sin you must quickly ( sincerely ) repent .
---fleur on 7/10/10|
Mark, anyone can obey laws, but with what intent? Love PRODUCES perfect obedience.There can be no question IF we Christians obey. Its always yes BECAUSE we love HIM.There are no laws or need for laws to lead Christians because we are now led by the Spirit. Where HE leads we follow.
Mark, You have to realize the sin issue is over. HE died one time for all sin. Would a Christian sin all he wants if he was made righteous and set free? Not possible IF you love and trust in HIM. If you dont love HIM your not a Christian and all the obedience to laws in the world will not save you. Its by grace through faith.
Have faith IN HIM, HE set you free.
---duane on 7/10/10|
Haz, I hope I have helped, if not, I'm sorry I could not. It does not make me any better then you only that we disagree with this point of faith concerning the believer. The questions of the law and grace are many. But not complicated as it might seem. Will be moving on to other topics where I have my hands full. I want to thank you for not sinning. Many in answering lose their cool and words are said that cannot be taken back. Peace I leave you.
---Mark_V. on 7/9/10|
Mark_V and Francis. A somewhat interesting response to suggest I am losing control, etc. But, if you sincerely believe that then I apologise if my posts mean that to you. The understandable word limitations for this forum do require a succinct message so perhaps this can lead some to think tempers are flaring.
But your issue with "moral law" is not an issue. It is what sin and its consequences mean. You avoid God's definitions of sin as inconvenient to your doctrine. But the wages of sin is death and this applies to those STILL under the law.
Christians are set FREE from the law. Just as duanne, josef, Linda always declare the victory through the cross of Christ I also declare this good news with them on this forum.
---Haz27 on 7/9/10|
Haz, listen to what I am going to say. First do not lose control and get mad. This are discussions pertaining to rightful living. The Conduct of believers. Second, you are giving two commandments that Christ gave. Wonderful. They are true. But the commandments are not the moral laws of God. God's moral nature never changes. The moral laws never changes are goes away. If you are in Christ, the law should be in your heart, because Christ is in your heart. The letter of the law is not needed, because you have Christ. And when in Christ, you have to be obedient to Christ, who is the Law within you. You should not be disobedient. ---Mark_V. on 7/9/10
Quit while you are ahead
---francis on 7/9/10|
Haz, listen to what I am going to say. First do not lose control and get mad. This are discussions pertaining to rightful living. The Conduct of believers. Second, you are giving two commandments that Christ gave. Wonderful. They are true. But the commandments are not the moral laws of God. God's moral nature never changes. The moral laws never changes are goes away. If you are in Christ, the law should be in your heart, because Christ is in your heart. The letter of the law is not needed, because you have Christ. And when in Christ, you have to be obedient to Christ, who is the Law within you. You should not be disobedient. Many disobey when they do not walk in the Spirit. Everyone disobeys at one point or another.
---Mark_V. on 7/9/10|
Mark_V you falsely claim I say we dont have to keep moral laws of God. Why say this when I repeatedly state God's commandments to love God and our neighbour?
You refuse to accept that Christians are dead to the law claiming that we are not dead yet. But "if one died for all, then all were dead" 2Cor5:15. "I am crucified with Christ Gal2:20. "henceforth we know no man after the flesh" 2Cor5:16. God says that through Christ Christians are dead to the law and set free from it. What the law says it says to those under it, and where there is NO LAW there is NO TRANSGRESSION (SIN). You still will not acknowledge what God says here.
I don't mind repeating this message of what Jesus did on the cross for us.
---Haz27 on 7/9/10|
Haz, we are not under the condemnation of the law. But we are very much expected to keep the moral laws of God. You are saying we do not have to keep the moral laws of God, just because we are saved. And when the Bible says, the body is dead to sin, means that it is sinful, but the spirit is alive to Christ. Before we were born again we were considered dead, not only physically because of sin, but also spiritually. The Spirit brought life to our spirit but the body remains dead to sin, and that is why it will physically die. The body has not been glorified. Sin leading to death means any sin which is premeditated that causes the Lord to determine to end a believers physical life, (Acts 5:1-11, 1 Cor. 5:5, 11:30).
---Mark_V. on 7/9/10|
Mark_V Remember God's definition. Sin is transgression of the law 1John3:4. What the law says it says to those under it. But Christians have been set free from the law as we have been crucified with Christ and are dead to sin. Why do you use the label "sin" against what God intended? It is a label for those UNDER THE LAW.
Christians are under grace. Should a Christian do wrong God chastises them. God commandments to Christians is believe on Jesus Christ and love one another 1John3:23. Why would you think Christians are going to do whatever wrong they like and profit by it?
---Haz27 on 7/9/10|
//The body is dead, dead to sin. John said,
"My little children, these things I write to you, so that you many not sin.//
The body is dead to sin...I think I said that if you would perchance occasion a re-read of what I wrote. Notice also that John says (and you wrote it here yourself), "My little children, I write to you, so that you may not sin."
My little children
I write to you
so that you may not sin
Wonder why he said that if we HAVE to sin.
Never said we don't HAVE sin. It dwells in the members, not in the born again spirit. If I walk in the Spirit, what is expressed is righteousness. As He is, so are we in this world. Again, how is He?
---Linda on 7/8/10|
Linda, you are carrying your mortal body around and it is stinking with sin. It has not been redeemed yet. Everyday you breath you sin whether you want to call it sin or not. The body is dead, dead to sin. John said,
"My little children, these things I write to you, so that you many not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righeous."
John, after explaining that if we say that we have not sinned, we make Him (God) a liar, and His word is not in us." Now he tells us when we do sin, we have an Advocate, Jesus Christ who will speak in our behalf. Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments", So obedience to His commandments is not a option.
---Mark_V. on 7/8/10|
Duane, so every time you do sin, He continues to give you His righteousness. There is no obedience at all. Just call sin righteous sins. All genuine believers have to be obedient. Obedient to what? To the moral laws of God. What do you think obedience means? To nothing?
Because of your comments and people who believe like you do, we have all those who oppose the assurance of salvation or what is here called OSAS. Why? because they say that because we believe that we are save we can sin all we want. And that is not true at all. We do not have a license to sin because we are saved. You are very wrong. Only those who continue to follow Christ will be saved, and when you follow Christ you have to be obedient.
---Mark_V. on 7/8/10|
One thing I have discovered is this: If you do not reckon the old man dead with Christ and believe you are still toting him around, you will eventually stink. Try carrying a corpse around for, well, four days and see what happens. Everybody will avoid you. Question: How much of a problem does a dead man have with sin? Can he commit adultery? Steal? Lie? No, he cannot. The body is DEAD because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. The next question is this: Which one are you going to walk by? You cannot walk in the Spirit and still fulfill the lusts of the flesh (sin). Jesus saves to the uttermost those that come to God by Him.
---Linda on 7/8/10|
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Mark_V & mima, unbelievers are in captivity to law of sin and death Rom7:23. Jesus fulfilled that law for us, we died with Jesus and have been set free. He led captivity captive Eph4:8. But you still hold on to that old man who is in captivity. Why?
You quote Rom6 "do not let sin reign in your mortal bodies" but misunderstand. Read that chapter from beginning. It also says "HOW shall we that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?", and "he that is dead is FREED from sin". Ask yourself that same question. If you are dead then HOW can you sin? If you are set free from law, therefore no longer under it, HOW can you be accused of sin (transgression)? Where no law is there is NO TRANSGRESSION (SIN).
---Haz27 on 7/8/10|
If I were asked if I were without sin, I would shout the walls down with YES to victory over sin all to the glory of Jesus. I am set free and dead to sin. I am NOT ashamed of the Cross. HE takes away my sin and grants me HIS righteousness. I am perfect before God because Christ made me so.
Some make the Cross of Christ non-effect.
HE has granted us victory, lets proclaim it.
---duane on 7/8/10|
duane, "Repentance" is the key to forgiveness. Repenting may include "paying back" what you owe or broke or lost. "Apologizing" to the person that was offended. "Forgiving others" for what they did against you. But any one who wrongly thinks that they can abuse the atonement, they are condemned, for the sacrifice of Christ is not a license to sin. The "do nothings" for God, are also the "get nothings" from God, they get no grace, no love, and no heaven. The figless tree is condemned: but they whom obey the Commandment, and are "Doers" of the word, they receive the goodness of God, and his "Well Done, you good and faithful servant."
---Eloy on 7/8/10|
Failure to believe that Jesus set us free from our sins is a straightforward denial of the work of Jesus Christ and what he accomplished. The question arises, do those who do not believe that Jesus set us free from sin enjoy salvation(are saved)? We can be certain that they must live in doubt of their own salvation, always on the edge and if they deny that they are on the edge and in doubt they are inadvertently announcing their perfect!!!
I've asked in meetings with these people, Assembly of God, Pennycostal, and others of this school of thought, will the person without sin stand up? To this day no one has ever stood up after being asked this question.
---mima on 7/8/10|
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Duane, what is sader is that many believe they are already holy, and without sin. That they can sin all they want and it is not called sin. That the Cross gave them permission to not follow the moral laws of God anymore. That obedience is an uption. They can obey or not. Just not true Duane.
No one alive is without sin. If you say you have no sin, the Truth is not in you. So you are saying there is no Truth in you.
"All come short of the glory of God" All means all human beings. No exception. Even believers.
---Mark_V. on 7/8/10|
Through reading theses blogs some say Jesus never set men free from sin. They read verses of scripture through their interpetation to disprove the work of the Cross. How sad is that. The Cross is the reason we are Christian.
---duane on 7/8/10|
Haz, Paul was already saved when he spoke of sin within him. I believe your preconceive believes do not allow you to see correctly and interpret the passages correctly. "Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lust. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselfs to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God."
Do you have any idea why Paul said that? He said it because they could still present their members as instruments to unrighteousness. If they had been freed from sin as you claim when they were saved, then there would be no use in Paul telling that.
---Mark_V. on 7/8/10|
Haz 2: You want to say that the believers no longer have to follow the law. That they are free.
The moral aspect of the law reflects the moral nature and perfections of God. Since God's moral nature remains unchanging, the moral law remains unchanging and is as relevent for the believer today as for the believers to whom it was given. The Christian is dead to the condemning power of the law' (Romans 8:1-3,) but very much under its command of obedience as a guide to right living before God" (Romans 3:31, Romans 6, 1 Cor.5, 6:9-20). You imply we do not have to follow the law because we are free. In other words we can do what we want and it is not called sin. We don't have to be obedient to the law anymore. Just not true at all.
---Mark_V. on 7/8/10|
Mark_V Read Rom7 from beginning. Paul is talking about the state man is in without Christ. When we WERE in the flesh. But Christians died to the law and became free to marry another, i.e Christ. We WERE in the flesh, yes, there was a battle within us "bringing me into captivity to the law of sin..."Rom7:23. But now Christians have DIED to the law, so law is fulfilled, the death penalty paid in flesh.
You know that what the law says it says to those under the law but where no law is, there is no SIN (transgression). You know that Christians have been set free from the law of sin and death and that the law was not made for Christians but for the ungodly and sinners.
As Linda said, choose the tree of life.
---Haz27 on 7/7/10|
Haz, Being saved does not say we don't have a sinful disposition, In Romans 7 Paul say's, "It is not I, it is sin that is in me" He understands that he is a new creation. There is a new ego, there is a new "I" and its longings are holy and its affections are spiritual and its love is towards God and its longings are directed in the path of righteousness. Its disposition or its bent is toward the Law of God which he "Loves," But he sees something inside of him warring. Though he has this new dispostion for righteousness, he is still incarcerated in his unredeemed humanness. And that's why in Romans 8 he says, "We are waiting for the redemption of the body"
---Mark_V. on 7/7/10|
//Yes we have a choice to reject God's grace and go back under the law. But that would be foolish as the Galatians were told Gal 3. What the law says it says to those under it, so as Christians are not under the law we cannot be accused of sin, i.e transgressing it.//
Amen. And it still doesn't make sense that a believer already exposed to grace could resist it while an unbeliever exposed to it could not, as Mark says. Surely God would want to keep those who have received Christ and that original influence would be of such a degree none would ever "fall from grace".
---Linda on 7/7/10|
Mark_V, you said that as Christians "we have the choice whether to sin or not." Yes we have a choice to reject God's grace and go back under the law. But that would be foolish as the Galatians were told Gal 3. What the law says it says to those under it, so as Christians are not under the law we cannot be accused of sin, i.e transgressing it.
---Haz27 on 7/7/10|
Freedom from sin means it(sin) has been taken away through HIS Blood, not covered up as the blood of bulls and goats.. No sin= no bondage. Christ came to put away sin.
Alot of Christians believe HE only took the bondage of sin away.Wrong, Sin has been taken away. We are set free. If sin is alive and well, there will be no life. There is no good news. No sin can enter in. You must be free of it.(sin)
Is this why you consider yourself a sinner? Because you believe sin is alive and well in your life? Are you NOT still in bondage, still trying to be forgiven as you sin? Or are you forgiven always?
---duane on 7/7/10|
//Now we have the choice whether to sin or not, before we were saved, we had no choice but to sin. While lost all we knew what to do was sin, now we know right from wrong.//
We have a choice? Really? Hmmmm. The same grace that saved us is the same grace that keeps us, yet we can resist that grace once we are saved but cannot when we aren't. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever since a believer who has experienced the grace of God should be more empowered to not resist than the one who hasn't experienced it. And no matter how you put it, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is still the wrong tree. I choose the tree of life.
---Linda on 7/7/10|
Daune, you say,
"Christians not having faith in the Cross."
Duane, there is no one who is a genuine Christian who does not have faith in the Cross. If they don't, they are not considered saved or Christians.
You also say,
" HE came to set us free from sin but many wont accept or believe it."
He did come to set us free from sin, but from the bondage of sin. We all believe that. Now we have the choice whether to sin or not, before we were saved, we had no choice but to sin. While lost all we knew what to do was sin, now we know right from wrong.
---Mark_V. on 7/7/10|
//Jesus did not take away the sin of the lost. They are lost because they do not have Christ. Their sins have not be dealed with. //
Well, better let God know that Jesus has to die again.
---Linda on 7/6/10|
Because of Adam all men are sinners.Did not Christ come to change what Adam did? Is sin more powerful than the Cross? Christians still claiming to be sinners. Christians not having faith in the Cross. HE came to set us free from sin but many wont accept or believe it. Many claim salvation but cant see their sin of unbelief. The sin of the world IS unbelief in HIM.
Many Christians need to go back to the Cross(repent) and really believe it. We need a real revival in this world.
---duane on 7/7/10|
Haz, you said,
"Mark_V, Jesus did take away the sin of the world, John declared this in John1:29 "behold the lamb of God who TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD""
The sin of the world in this context "world" has a connotation of humanity in general, not specifically every person. The use of the singular "sin" in conjunction with "of the world" indicates that Jesus sacrifice for sin potentially reaches all human beings without distinction (1 John 2:2) John makes clear, however, that it's effeccious effect is only for those who receive Christ (vv. 11,12).
---Mark_V. on 7/6/10|
Does he really forget?
and will not remember thy sins.Isa. 43:25.
I will remember their sin no more.Jer. 31:34.
Their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.Heb. 8:12.
The entire question is based on a false premise inviting correction but no answer.
You can only measure scripture in truth not a lie disguised as a question.
---larry on 7/6/10|
Mark_V, Jesus did take away the sin of the world, John declared this in John1:29 "behold the lamb of God who TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD"
But your right, unbelievers are lost because of unbelief, which is what I said from John16:9 the world will be convicted of sin because of unbelief. Note, it does not say convicted of sin because they did not keep the law.
What the law says it says to those under it Rom3:19 and the law was not made for Christians but for the ungodly and sinners 1Tim1:9. Where there is NO LAW there is NO TRANSGRESSION (NO SIN) Rom4:15. This is very straight forward.
Also, Christians are chastised for our good so we can't profit from doing wrong.
---Haz27 on 7/6/10|
The Bible says that when we repent, God forgives and cleanses us and blots it out as far as the East from the West. Jesus already paid for our sins, however, sometimes we must face the after effects of our sins. Example would be someone who murdered someone else and repented to God about it, but still will have to face jail time.
---Leslie on 7/6/10|
"Do we pay for sin? This question makes no sense to a Christian.
Christians know Christ has already paid for the sin of mankind. HE came to bear sin over 2000 yrs ago."
---duane on 7/5/10
This statement by duane is clear unmistakable and true!!
---mima on 7/6/10|
Haz, again you have taken passages and given them new meanings. First you say,
"Bill, "sin" is transgression of the law of sin and death (1John3:4) .
Jesus took away the sin of the world when he was crucified. Sins were forgiven and forgotten at the cross of Christ."
Jesus did not take away the sin of the lost. They are lost because they do not have Christ. Their sins have not be dealed with.
Second, we have been set free from the Law of sin, because of the weakness of the flesh it can produce only sin and death (7:5,13) But the law is very much alive for us, we are set free from the condemnation of the law.
If there was no law for the believers, they could sin all they want. Just not true.
---Mark_V. on 7/6/10|
Bill, because God does love His people, with an adoring kind of love which unbelievers cannot know, or receive from God....He is willing to quickly forgive and never to hold the sin against us. He continues to discipline us when He sees fit to do so. Sometimes we, believers, do not know exactly what we have done. But all dealings and disciplines is directly due to our sins. We are not sinners we are Saints. We are not comfortable in sinning or in our sins as the sinners are. They live a life of sin, a good life so they think. Hell is no fun, but to the sinners sin is fun to them. Ugh.
---catherine on 7/5/10|
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When we sin, and then ask God to forgive us, He will forgive and forget it..EVERYTIME!
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Jeremiah 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
---a_friend on 7/5/10|
Bill, "sin" is transgression of the law of sin and death (1John3:4) .
Jesus took away the sin of the world when he was crucified. Sins were forgiven and forgotten at the cross of Christ.
When a person becomes a Christian they are set free from this law Rom8:2. Where there is NO LAW there is NO TRANSGRESSION (i.e NO SIN) Rom4:15. Christians are no longer sinners but are under God's grace so are now chastised.
Your question about "forget" and "discipline" are 2 very separate events.The forgetting of sin was done on the cross. After that those who become Christians are chastised for our good.
But, the sin that remains now is the sin of unbelief in Jesus Christ (John16:9)
---Haz27 on 7/5/10|
Some messages are so important as to be worth repeating and such is the case with the following message.
"Sin is transgression of the law...Where there is no law,there is NO sin. TELL ME ALL, are we under the law? Christ came to take away sin."
---calhoon on 6/8/10
---mima on 7/5/10|
Do we pay for sin? This question makes no sense to a Christian.
Christians know Christ has already paid for the sin of mankind. HE came to bear sin over 2000 yrs ago.
---duane on 7/5/10|
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Lyd: I think it depends on what the sin is
If the sin is only agains God (impure thoughts, desires, etc) then it is up to God to decide, and He often fogives (though som edamage may be left behind in our sould)
If the isn is agains our neighbour (as many are, like stealilng, etc) then we SIN against God, but also do an injustice to others
There, we certainly must pay the legal price, not just God's price for that sin
---peter3594 on 7/5/10|
Some sins will continue to have bad consequences, even if the sin is forgiven.
For example, there are women who have been injured during safe, legal abortions.
Later, when they wished to conceive, they were unable to because of damage done by the abortionist.
Were they forgiven upon repentance? Surely, but this doesn't mean their fertility was restored.
A man who has caught an incurable STD as a result of sexual immorality can well be forgiven such sins.
But forgiveness doesn't necessarily bring a clean bill of health in this world.
---Cluny on 7/4/10|
If God disciplines those he loves and they sin,confess and ask for forgiveness then how can God forget the sin and continue to discipline? Bill
---Bill on 7/4/10|
The Bible does say that we reap what we sow, and that is very true. For a believer it means the same as for an unbeliever. For the believer if he is saved and forgiven he will still have to pay the consequences of that sin in this life. All sin has consequences. Some sins have a big consequence where others not so serious. Many times those sins effect so many others. They destroy families, jobs, etc. For the unbeliever, it only add's to the list of his unforgiven sins.
---MarkV. on 6/9/10|
The second commandment is as important as the first commandment: "Loving your neighbor as you love yourself, is equally important as loving God." Every offense has a price. Jesus says when you come in front of the Lord to offer your gift up to him, and remember that you have something against your brother, then you are to leave your gift there at the altar and first go out and make amends with your brother, and then return to offer up your gift to the Lord. You cannot be in good standing with the Lord when you are in offense with your fellowman. Pay what you owe to those you offended, and then afterward pay your homage to God.
---Eloy on 6/9/10|
Sin is transgression of the law...Where there is no law,there is NO sin. TELL ME ALL, are we under the law? Christ came to take away sin.
---calhoon on 6/8/10|
Lyd, you can't pay for the sin.
There is nothing you own and no spiritual currency sufficient to pay such a price.
---larry on 6/8/10|
What is sin? To talk about "SIN" lets use Biblical definitions. Try these few.
1: Transgressing the law (1John3:4)
2: Unbelief (John16:8,9)
3: Blasphemy (Mark3:29)
So, are you STILL under the law that Jesus fullfilled on our behalf? Are you rejecting the gospel? Do you blaspheme the Holy Spirit? For Christians the answer to these question is..."NO".
---Haz27 on 6/8/10|
Yes! Noone gets away with anything in this life. Even though God does forgives us, and does not hold our sins against us, because of His Blood, [we have fellowship with God] However, our sins, past sins, PRESENT SINS, AND FUTURE SINS, CAN AFFECT OUR LIVES UNTIL THE DAY THAT WE DIE....This is why on judgment day, we do not stand before the "Lord thy God" and give Him a list of all of our good works, and why He should let us into heaven. He will let us in only because of His grace. [favor].
---catherine on 6/1/10|
But those outside the will of the Father suffer consequence too. Does it always 'serve them right'? Don't many glorify their shame? Don't many boast of their sin and the consequences? Aren't we different? Have we not felt the conviction of the Holy Spirit? What about our rewards in this life and the next? It's an unloving parent who simply leaves a child to suffer the consequences of it's actions alone. Don't we counsel/ discipline/ remonstrate/ chastise them? And then comfort them. If we really believe that every sin receives its just consequence then dare you try it? Isn't this why people are trading in their sin for the consequence? God is not mocked!
---John_II on 4/19/10|
Donna and Joseph: I agree totally - we will have consequences, whether we sin against others or [only] against God - but these are less that a milionth of what we would have had, if God did not forgive us! So be happy with the consequence
---peter on 4/19/10|
Donna66 said: "We do not have to pay any eternal penalty as we are made righteous in Christ Jesus, providing we place our trust in Him...We MAY reap what we sow here on earth, however."
I am in total agreement: We do not pay for our sin (pl) since Christ's life, death, and resurrection paid our ransom, but we do still have to suffer the effects.
It is just like if someone falls in a deep, tight hole. There may be someone to save him, but the deliverance is still painful.
---joseph on 4/8/10|
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If you have truly repented, then you have agreed to how God operates. This does not necessarily mean that you have changed immediately, He knows the mastery of sin over its slave. No, we can expect judgements, chastisements, vengeance, calamities, torments and even demon molestation for our transgressions. Otherwise we will not be changed (be repented)! Now someone's heart may not be so rebellious as to be under the scourge of God's discipline, and though death and pain may not be apparent, your blessedly privileged life will be demanded from you. The opposite of death is life, and the opposite of destruction is prosperity, so though you may have life in this world, the payment may be your prosperity. Aren't many simply existing now!
---John_II on 4/3/10|
"Do not be deceived, God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life." (Galatians 6:7-8) "Corruption" is the deep degradation of one's spirit witch comes because of living in one's selfishness-infected nature obeying Satan's "spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience." (Ephesians 2:2) When you trusted in Christ, you were delivered out of this, so that this evil process was thwarted, and you joined Jesus with *His* record. And in living in His love, we grow in His love's eternal life with almighty immunity with beauty "incorruptible" (1 Peter 3:4).
---Bill_bila5659 on 4/1/10|
We do not have to pay any eternal penalty as we are made righteous in Christ Jesus, providing we place our trust in Him.
In that respect God "forgets" our sin.
We MAY reap what we sow here on earth, however. Our actions have consequences. And sinful actions are likely to have uncomfortable consequences. After we have been forgiven, all we need to do is to try to repair and damage our sins may have caused. This is not always possible but we must humbly admit our errors and determine not to repeat them.
---Donna66 on 3/31/10|
Yes, the Bible says that God forgets our sins and removes them as far as the east is from the west, from us.He also corrects His children and will get our attention when we walk outside of His will.Remember that the Bible says that God "will have compassion upon whom He will have compassion".Although He is not a respecter of persons,He works with each of His on an individual basis according to His pleasure.He is aware that we struggle in the flesh and is able to come to our aid in this area.Jesus was tempted in all ways but didn't sin and for that reason, He can assist us in our infermities/faults.The bondage to sin was nailed to the cross.Our new requirements are more about Christian character,how to treat each others,Love and fruits.
---jody on 3/31/10|
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Well, your sins has been paid for. His Blood did it. However, no one gets away with their sins. David didn't, that is a good example. Look, if you are one of the few that God chosed, and you were fortunate enough to had been raised in a Christian family, and you were wise enough to choose right relationships, and for the most part made right decisions in your life, then your walk with God will go much smoother, in this life, my friends. Heed to these wise words.
---catherine on 3/29/10|
the lord forgives and forgets. joh:3:16: For god so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
ro:10:9: that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
ro:10:10: For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
1jo:1:9: if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
---kris on 3/29/10|
2 Peter 1:9: "But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins."
Is payment required for forgiveness?
John preparing those approaching unto the coming of the Lord and the way of salvation called not only "repent" but also "Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance".
As a paralell, see Isaiah 1:16_20. Faith and obedience come from hearing and understanding the Word of God. Repentance comes as a neccesity of not living up to that standard which was taught to us. The reason for God saying, "I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me.", Isaiah 1:2.
---Nana on 3/27/10|
The passage about reaping what you sow has to do with supporting the ministry. Read it in context. cluny
That is a very interesting(though inaccurate) interpretation of this statement regarding "reap what you sow." It has nothing particular to do with "the ministry" but everything to do with our actions. When we do something harmful, we can expect to "suffer the consequences" as in getting cancer when we choose to smoke, or drinking and suffering the diseases related to alcohol. Our sin debt is paid only by the blood of Jesus Christ, not anything we could or would do.
---tommy3007 on 3/26/10|
as a believer we are outside of the fathers judgement,we will be judged by christ and rewarded for those things done in the spirit,or for what is referred to as fruits of the spirit.but to answer your question yes,when God says he has forgotten thats what he means,christ paid for your sins,substituted by dying for every sinner.
---tom2 on 3/26/10|
I agree with Kimbe7395 on 3/25/10.
The results of transgressions are consequences, not payments.
For "God is not mocked, for 'whatever' a man sows, (extends outwardly to others) that he will also reap (gather into himself)." Gal.6:7
"Even as I have seen, Those who plow iniquity And sow trouble reap the same." Job 4:8
"Sow for yourselves righteousness, Reap in mercy" Hsa.10:12
---Josef on 3/25/10|
There is always consequences for every unrighteous action-reap what we sow.In another religion it is called karma,the yen and yang.
The saying ,the wages of sin is death is forever true-a consequence of unrighteousness.There is nothing we can do to minimize these wages nor can we pay the wages back but only the father's forgiveness will compensate for sowing seeds of destruction.
We may temporarily reap to our mortal death these consequences of our actions but the final outcome, when forgiven prior to mortal death, is the later spirit life in eternity where former things will never be remembered.
---earl on 3/25/10|
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness!
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin!
This is one of the hardest things for us to understand or even believe!
This clearly says not to all, but to he who believe ?or!
How vain am I, once I told God, I can explain it!
He said, they will not believe!
---TheSeg on 3/25/10|
The Bible says as far as the East is from the West, that God has forgotten our sins when we repent. God does not remember our sins once we repent, it is like we never even did them. However, sometimes there are consequences for sin that we must pay. Example if you murder someone and then repent, you will still have to face jail time for the crime.
---Leslie on 3/25/10|
If you choose the law of commandments and ordinances/rules in order to justify yourself, then you have set yourself up as a transgressor and you will always be a sinner, but if you choose "the law of liberty" to judge yourself and others by, then you will escape/bypass "sin" altogether.
You can never "PAY" for sin (only Jesus had that ability).
"by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances".
James 1:25, 2:12
"But he who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty".
"So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty".
If you live according to the old law, you will die by the old law.
---more_excellent_way on 3/25/10|
Lyd, King David repented of committing adultery and for murdering her husband, the woman he committed adultery with.
King David repented in sackcloth and ashes and with remorse and even fasted, but God still took his son away from him when he was born.
We suffer the consequences of our sins, but we still need to repent to be forgiven. First John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
---Donna5535 on 3/25/10|
No man now or ever has been capable of paying for his sins. Hence we understand why it was necessary for Jesus_(the lamb without spot) to come and die for us and take away our sins.
When man insist on paying or helping to pay we nullify and do away with the work of Jesus Christ on the cross of Calgary. The most common word for this type of activity is works and works as, payment for Sin, will not be excepted by the Lord Jesus Christ.
Failure to accept the Lord Jesus Christ's payment for sins is a sure road to an eternity in hell.
---mima on 3/25/10|
The passage about reaping what you sow has to do with supporting the ministry. Read it in context.
If we could pay in any way for our sin, there would be no need for Jesus.
---Cluny on 3/25/10|
With sin comes consequences, with repentance comes forgiveness, and with Obedience comes rewards.
---Kimbe7395 on 3/25/10|
Even if we repent, we need correction, but not just punishment.
---Bill_bila5659 on 3/25/10|