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Assured Of My Salvation

Can I be assured of my "Salvation" because the devil is tormenting me day and night with temptations, accusations and evil hot prickly burning manifestations and when I pray over it disappears. I feel "half evil and half righteous" and I am very afraid. Please help.

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 ---Adrian on 3/25/10
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Kathr, you speak falsehood about the deity of Christ. The doctrine of the eternity of the Son of God is the most important doctrine of Christology as a whole because if Christ is not eternal then He is a creature who came into existence in time and lacks the quality of eternity and infinity which characterizes God Himself. In the Messianic prophecy Christ is spoken of as the Child to be born in Bethlehem "Whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting" Mecah 5:2. As He Himself said in John 8:58, "Before Abraham was, I Am"
Isa. 9:6 Christ is declared to be not only "Mighty God" but also "Everlasting Father" or, better translated, "Father of eternity"
---MarkV. on 4/10/10


MarkV you mis-quote me again and again. I SAID teh WORD was in the OT, and CHRIST who became flesh was not in the OT, He didn't become the SON of God until He was born of a virgin. There is more scripture to support this then your view.

The SON was in SUBMISSION to the Father in teh NT doing God's will, however in the OT there is no scripture that the WORD was in submission to God. The Lord our God is ONE...and were always ONE.

The Angel tells Mary..and you shall call Him the SON OF GOD.

Son of God is His TITLE, Just Like Son of Man and Son of David....


---kathr4453 on 4/10/10


Kathr, first you said Jesus the Son of God was not the Son of God in the Old Testament. The Christ of Scripture is God, and a God who is not eternal is not God. Now you say that Jesus does not have two natures. That He is not 100% Human, and 100% God. He is fully human in His incarnated nature, and fully God in nature. He is not in sinful flesh, for He is without sin. And no matter how you twist the Scriptures you cannot change what is the Truth.
---MarkV. on 4/9/10


Kahtr, your heretical views will not change because you will not change. You will attack the very nature of Christ at the expense of an argument. You have been speaking this views about Jesus for a long time already. I remember when you even said that the Son of God was not the Son of God in the Old Testament. Putting into question Jesus Christ again as not been eternal. People like you were killed in the old times for trying to change the Word of God. Of course nowadays you can say what you want. Your views have always been heretical so there is no truth in what you say. The Scriptures you give are true but your definition and interpretations are false.
---MarkV. on 4/9/10


Part 2 Please print!!! WARNING!!

The idea of having only one nature gives to horrible heresy concerning the Christian life.

1)Cheap grace.

2) a false sense of arriving, like the Hindu strives to a place of perfectness through it's own efforts of self denial. DANGER HERE!!! only the Holy Spirit can mortify( put to death) the DEEDS of the flesh YOU CAN'T!

3) believes itself to be sinless, leading to PRIDE and selfrighteousness.

ALL 3 totally denies the Cross and our identification of the old adam being CRUCIFIED with Christ.

Yes, so many believe Jesus was Crucified, but do not believe WE ARE Crucified With Christ and this is a DAILY life ,Paul saying I DIE DAILY...Who is the I here Dying daily?
---kathr4453 on 4/9/10




Wesleyan One-Naturism

"Total Depravity does not mean that human nature is essentially and completely evil, but that every part of it is damaged and infected by inherited Adamic sin. "It is insisted that there is no new nature involved at conversion, but rather the impartation of spiritual life that regenerates the old Adamic nature.


So you actually believe you are being changed back to what Adam was before the fall? Yet Adam even in his perfectness was still flesh made of clay. He was never a Begotten Son, but one created out of the dust of the earth made lower than angels too, without any hope of anything else.

Is this who you believe you are and will always be?
---kathr4453 on 4/9/10


MarkV, I did some research on what you are saying. Because at some council of whatever, trying to determine the Deity of Christ and those who apposed, the term that JESUS has two natures was established. However no scripture tells us Jesus has two natures..that was a MAN MADE decision to put it in those terms.

Because of that, you are steeped in that doctrine that you fail to see past that has clouded your understanding of our two natures, by thinking we are Gods if we do.

Where does SCRIPTURE state Jesus had/has two natures? That is not in scripture either!!!!

Jesus did not have a SIN nature. He being fully God fully Man is only YOUR definition of two natures.

We are not fully God, Fully man, born of a virgin etc.
---kathr4453 on 4/9/10


/We are not gods, and will never be gods. We are been transformed into His image, and at our glorification we will be made completely righteous, but never does our nature change to God. ---markv /


Okay, are you saying that even though we are saved and in Christ, we continue in enmity against God?

Because that is what it sounds like you are saying. If so, that is a lie.

Christ says be transformed by the renewing of the mind.
Kath has given very good and real, true scripture backing up that once we come into Christ we do in fact have 2 natures. One dead and crucified(sinner). The other is Christ in us alive!
---miche3754 on 4/9/10


Cathrine, Satan does love for christians to bring heretical views to one another. People get lost in the confusion, not their salvation but the right path. Even Satan's lie is still going around, when he said to the woman,
"You will not surely die. For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God"
We are not gods, and will never be gods. We are been transformed into His image, and at our glorification we will be made completely righteous, but never does our nature change to God.
We are not little gods going around sinning.
---MarkV. on 4/9/10


Everyone born into the human race has the nature or personality they inherited from Adam.

"It is a nature that is in total rebellion to the things of God. Romans 8 calls it an enemy of God. It is subject to the ruler of this world, Satan (II Corinthians 4:4).

"Even though many good people have refined this old sin nature and kept it under control, it is still the personality that Paul describes in Romans 1 and Ephesians 2. But, that personality has to die the death of crucifixion (Galatians 2:20 and Romans 6).

Though God reckons it as dead, in our experience, he, the old Adam, is still alive and operates opposite the New Divine nature of Christ, which God created in us the moment we believe the Gospel.
---kathr4453 on 4/9/10




Satan would love nothing more to see one of God's own stop following Him. He would have a party in hell. YOU FOLLOW JESUS. Die with Him, you will get to heaven.
---catherine on 4/9/10


This is a great MYSTERY, the Church, the Bride/Body of Christ Jesus prayed for.

John 17 21That they all may be one, as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them, that they may be one, even as we are one:

23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one,
and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

I'm sorry MarkV you don't understand and can only see from an earthly perspective. You need the MIND of Christ for God to reveal this mystery to you!!!
---kathr4453 on 4/9/10


When two people come together, in spirit they become one. Each one does not receive the nature of the other. Both don't become one person. They still have the same nature they had before they married. The same is with the Lord. We do not become the Nature of God and God does not become us. The nature remains the same, the Spirit comes alive to Christ through rebirth. Rebirth is a supernatural spiritual act. No where does it state that a person has two natures, and Old Nature or a New Nature. There is a reason why those terms are not use in the Bible. Only Jesus Christ has two Natures. No one else does.
---MarkV. on 4/8/10


Ephesians 4:25:"Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

Ephesians 5:30:"For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones."

Colossians 3:5:"Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth, fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:"
---Nana on 4/8/10


Yes MarkV it does. THIS is a great MYSTERY, as Paul says He is speaking of the church.

Ephesians 5:29-35

29For no man ever yet hated his own flesh, but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

30For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

MarkV just as Eve was taken out of Adams side....not created separately, we too are joined with Christ as ONE...it's a mystery, yet true!!
---kathr4453 on 4/8/10


MarkV
Part 2

Genesis 2:23
And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

Adam who laid down his life for his Bride is a type of Christ who laid down his life for us..His Bride.


You see, what was foreordained from before the foundation of the world...Christ and His Church, God shows us in Genesis. (those awesome nuggets of truth now revealed)

We are complete IN HIM takes on a deeper meaning as we grow in the grace and Knowledge of Him!


No more arguing MarkV, I know what I believe, because I KNOW what the Lord has taught me. I will never give up the things he has shown me..EVER!!! It cost too much!
---kathr4453 on 4/8/10


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Kahtr, the Bible says we are the spiritual body of Christ, and He is the Head of that body. We are many parts, and when one part hurts the others feel that pain. It is a spiritual baptism by the Spirit when we are saved. But no where does it say
"bone of His Bone, flesh of His flesh. Also Ephesians 1:13-15"
You took a quote from Gen. 2:23, where Adam said,
"This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh, she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man"
We are not bone of Christ bone, and flesh of His flesh. Even though you insist with your heretical view, No amount of religious words can make that Truth.
---MarkV. on 4/8/10


Yes Adrain, be encouraged that when you received Jesus Christ into your life, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit, which is just a taste of our inheritance to come, when we can be totally set free from our earthly humanity and all that we struggle with. Remember you are IN CHRIST and He is in you. John 15 Jesus said YOU CAN DO NOTHING without Him, so you must abide in Him. He is your life, your strength, and only God's Power works in you through Christ.Ephesians 3:14-21 You have no power of your own. No you are not a God, however we are Born Again and begotten Sons through Jesus Christ, becoming members of HIS BODY. He is our head, we are His Body, bone of His Bone, flesh of His flesh. Also Ephesians 1:13-15

God Bless Adrian
---kathr4453 on 4/8/10


Adrien,

Are you still there? I have been in the same place that you are. Many of us have been. I do not have time right now, but hopefully tonight, I will finish the response that I started last night to your question.

In the mean time, keep going to the Lord Jesus when you are attacked, and try to keep company with and read blogs of people who can offer encouragement in Jesus and strength and comfort in the Holy Spirit.
---joseph on 4/8/10


1 Corinthians 15:49-55
49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51Behold, I shew you a mystery, We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

---kathr4453 on 4/8/10


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Kathr, Romans 6:8 does not say what you said it says. You added words, "our flesh is enemy to our New Spiritual Nature" to make it sound like you are correct but you are wrong. You will not admit you are wrong and fight with everything in you even to the point of attacking the deity of Christ, and only because it is me. For only He is 100% human and 100% God. No one else is.
Romans 6:8 "Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him"
What it does say is what I told you before,
"Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord" Rom. 6:11.
---MarkV. on 4/8/10


If this is really true that you only have one nature, then why did Paul say, "Oh wretched man that I am!"? Why didn't he say, "I am not very wretched. I no longer have that old active sinful nature which I once had. I now have only a new nature. Yet I must admit that I still have RESIDUAL wretchedness (not much wretchedness but a little of it). Only VESTIGES of wretchedness have survived, otherwise I'm a wonderful person!"

OR wouldn't one say to the other extreme...I"M Perfectly SINLESS, because My New Nature cannot sin, and since I only have the one that cannot sin...I NEVER SIN BECAUSE it is impossible for the New Nature to sin. and some do go to that extreme.
---kathr4453 on 4/8/10


Part 2 Please Post.

Galatians tells us those who are Christ's have CRUCIFIED the FLESH, Romans 6 say our OLD MAN is Crucified with Christ. and we are to RECKON, KNOW IT and YIELD to that TRUTH, as Paul said DON'T YOU KNOW?

MarkV, one thing Calvin never did was IDENTIFY you with the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. You continue to DENY these truths as you go on and on here.

NO WHERE will you ever find in the NT that Jesus came to redeem your flesh!!!

He came to redeem your SOUL!!!

Paul tells us in Romans 6-8 that our flesh is the enemy of the NEW SPIRITUAL NATURE in us.

YOU deny the Cross, and His work...

The preaching of the CROSS IS foolishness to those who perish...beware!!!
---kathr4453 on 4/8/10


MarkV.

You say we are changed from Glory to Glory by the spirit of the Lord.

When we partake of (the fellowship of His Sufferings,Phil 3, the GLORY of the Lord rests upon us..1st Peter 3-4. Now 2nd Peter states, that through HIS Precious Promises by faith, become partakers of HIS DIVINE NATURE!!

All the sanctification taking place in us is HIS LIFE, not yours...no longer I but Christ in me....the life I now live in the flesh., I live by the faith of CHRIST.

This is the second part of the FINISHED work of Christ IN YOU!!! And when Christ who IS OUR LIFE appears we shall appear with HIM IN GLORY!!!

HIS GLORY will be revealed in us...Thess.

Christ in you, IS YOUR NEW NATURE!!!
---kathr4453 on 4/8/10


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Kathr, you are in too much of a hurry to condemn what I say that when you answer you give false and heretical views. If your intentions were correct, for the glory of God, and the Spirit was guiding you, you would know and make sure that you got your information correct since the Spirit brings light to God's Word. If you look pass me, and speak on behalf of God, then your motive would be right and your answers would take a different meaning. For the past five months all you have done is look where I answer and condemn what I say, always keeping your eyes on me and not God. I hear you mention my name almost in every answer, when I never answer you. You cannot hide your motives from anyone. Not even God.
---MarkV. on 4/7/10


Kathr, you said,
"if you only have one nature, your New Nature that came when you were born again, why then do you sin."
We do not get a new nature at regeneration. We become alive to Christ. Where before we were dead to all spiritual things. We continue to sin because our nature has not change, the flesh has not been redeemed. It is the work of the Spirit to fulfill the role of sanctifier. To be sanctified is to be made holy, or righteous. Sanctification is a process that begins the moment we become Christains. The process continues until death when the believer is made finally, fully, and forever righeous, yet never turns to God. We should never say people have two natures. Only Christ is Human and God.
---MarkV. on 4/7/10


MarkV, why did Paul say in my flesh dwells no good thing. It never has, it never will.

Why did Paul say, Oh wretched man that I am, who will deliver me from the body of this death What body was he talking about?

He was talking about Romans 6 and Colossians 2 putting OFF the Body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ.

And MarkV I no way altered any words of Charles Spurgeon that I posted.


MarkV, if you only have one nature, your New Nature that came when you were born again, why then do you sin. That which is born of God CANNOT SIN...so who is sinning here...GOD? or you?

You deny the finished work of Christ, and the second part of His work.
---kathr4453 on 4/7/10


Adrian Part 2:
When the Spirit endwells us, He does not become human and we do not become gods. The Holy Spirit does not destroy our personal identities as human beings. In the sanctification we are to become godlike in character, but not in being. That is the way of the Lord, and any other doctrine is false and heretical.
Our sanctification is a cooperative venture. We must work with the Holy Spirit to grow in sanctification. Paul expressed this idea, "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure" Phil.2:12,13.
---MarkV. on 4/7/10


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Charles Spurgeon did not write the Bible. Man, inspired by the Holy Spirit did. In that statement taken out of context no where did he say that we have two natures, one old and one new. He is no way believed that humans have two natures. He never mentioned that on any of his works for I have almost all of them. You took a statement from him out of context, amen it, and changed what he said to two natures.
If you had been smart you would have learned from his teachings and you would not be giving all the false teachings you are giving. They are heretical and attacks the deity of Jesus Christ. If you think that is not important then continue your teachings and I will continue to defend the Truth. You back off, and I will too.
---MarkV. on 4/7/10


The question is one of semantics.

Some prefer "sin nature," others prefer "sinful nature," and others the "flesh." What is relevant is that an ongoing battle rages within the Christian.

How the word "Nature" is defined is how one sees the distinction between the old man and the new man and its relevant outworking in the life of the Christian. The old man is interpreted as the former way of life, that of an unbeliever. In this sense, the Christian has two competing capacities within him, the old capacity to sin and the new capacity to resist sinning. The unbeliever has no such competition within, he cannot resist sinning because he doesnt have the capacity to not sin.
---kathr4453 on 4/7/10


All beings live according to their nature, and the regenerated man works out the holy instincts of his renewed mind: crying after holiness, warring against sin, labouring to be pure in all things, the regenerate man puts forth all his strength towards that which is pure and perfect. A new heart makes all the difference. Given a new nature, and then all the propensities run in a different way, and the blessings of almighty love no longer involve peril, but suggest the loftiest aspirations.

AMEN!!!

Charles Spurgeon...Calvinist On the TWO Natures!!

Well MarkV, not even Calvinists agree on this issue. However I agree with this Calvinist!!!
---kathr4453 on 4/7/10


Adrain,
Listen to the word of God. NOT men.
We can give you scripture and encourage and lift you up in prayer but YOU have to call on the name of Jesus to be your strong tower.

Don't listen to "Christians" who like to bad mouth other Christians. Thats what Christ means by "Ye shall know them by the fruit they bear".
The enemy doesn't want ANY Christian to serve God. You do have 2 natures that are at war with each other until you die. You flesh and the Holy Spirit inside you. You must listen to God's word, put on THE armor of God. Read your Bible, become familiar with what God has to say. Speak HIS word against the enemy and he will flee.
Christ in you will bring the flesh under submission of HIS word.
---miche3754 on 4/7/10


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Adrain, the reason you feel half evil and half righteous is because you are listening to people like Kathr who teach that a person has an Old nature and a New nature. That is false doctrine. You are being transformed to the image of Christ, and that transformation begin at salvation. 2 Cor. 3:18 says, "But we (believers) all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord"
The Spirit's indwelling of the believer brings about a more righteous life and heart. The Spirit is in the believer and works with the believer, but does not become the believer. The Holy Spirit works to produce sanctified human beings.
---MarkV. on 4/7/10


So with that last post Adrian, your old and new are in conflict with one another, waring against one another. Satan wants to keep you bound in your old..defeated. However through the promises and standing firm in your NEW NATURE or New Man you will have victory over the old as well as Satan tormenting you.

Just say...I AM a New Creature in Christ. My old man died with Christ at Calvary. You have no more power over me or my old man. Christ Now is my Life and I will walk in the Spirit of the Life of Christ in my.

And Adrian, read read read your Bible, because it is God's WORD that is the sword we use to tell Satan to hit the road!!!

****AND they overcame by the BLOOD of the lamb and the word of their testimony!!!
---kathr4453 on 4/7/10


A lost person has only the old nature through physical birth. The moment a person is saved, he gains a new nature (in addition to the old) by spiritual birth (John 3:6, 7, II Pet. 1:4).

A conflict between the old and new natures will be until we're completely redeemed.
The different names for the old and new natures in the Bible are.

The New Nature is called:

* The Spirit
* The inward man
* The new man

The Old Nature is called:

* The flesh
* The outward man
* The old man

There will be conflict. Galatians 5:17: "For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and there are CONTRARY the one to the other."
---kathr4453 on 4/7/10


WE are NOT individual Gods, or 100% deity. Why would having two natures suggest that.

You said COVERED with the Righteousness of Christ. WRONG. Imputed Righteousness is Justification. We are Justified by His Blood.

However Christ in you, is altogether something else. We PUT ON CHRIST, as our sanctification.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. Baptism into Christ is not IMPUTED Righteousness! It results in the very righteousness of Christ in us living through us. No longer I but CHRIST in me. now in my flesh I live by the faith of Christ. I am nothing without Christ..HE IS MY LIFE!!!!

I keep saying this OVER and OVER and OVER and MarkV just will not get it!!!
---kathr4453 on 4/6/10


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Kathr's formula theology does not work with the Truth of God. She lied when she said that people have two natures, ---
---MarkV. on 4/6/10

MarkV, who else has LIED here beside me? It looks like several!!!!

Why then aren't you calling them LIARS?

MarkV you are not saved. I don't say this in anger, but by your own admission you have no idea what took place at Calvary.

God IS NOT making over your old Adam nature/man, Scripture tells us that by NATURE we were children of wrath. Why do you lie against scripture?

Is it because ((BY Nature )) being a prepositional phrase, you fail to acknowledge it as truth?
---kathr4453 on 4/6/10


Kathr's formula theology does not work with the Truth of God. She lied when she said that people have two natures, she could not answer with the Truth so she put down many passages to conclude if you add them all up, it equals to something, that equals to something else, yet no matter the amount of passages, she cannot find two natures in Scripture. The terms "Old nature" and "New Nature are not mentioned in Scripture for a reason, but she wants to change other terms to mean they are. Implying we are 100% deity, God Himself. So we are many Gods.
She says, I just don't understand, I do not obey God, the imputation of the righteousness of Christ on the believer is false she says. Just a lot of talk with not substance behind it.
---MarkV. on 4/6/10


The Bible never uses the terms "Old Nature" or a "New nature."
---MarkV. on 4/4/10

The Bible DOES say, old man,( Old nature) New Man ( New Nature)


Romans 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Ephesians 4:22
That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts,

Colossians 3:9-10 9Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds,

10And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
---kathr4453 on 4/5/10


MarkV, and not only so but Paul tells us in Colossians 3:1-4 that we are DEAD and our life is hidden

(1)with God

(2)in Christ,


(3) not to mention sealed with the Holy Spirit a of Promise.


SO then, not only is Christ in us, the the WHOLE TRINITY, Father Son and Holy Spirit!!!!

We are Begotten SONS through Jesus Christ. Begotten means BIRTHED BY GOD!!! SONS OF GOD!!!

To as many as receive HIM that is Jesus Christ, to THEM gave He the power to become the SONS OF GOD!!!

Abba FATHER!!!!
---kathr4453 on 4/5/10


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You are still have the same nature you had before, the only difference is that you are forgiven. Covered with the righteousness of Christ. Take that off and you are the same old sinner.
---MarkV. on 4/5/10


Nowhere in scriptire are we COVERED with the Righteousness of Jesus.

The term COVERED is an OT term. They were COVERED by the blood of bulls and Goats. We are not longer COVERED, but WASHED clean.

Scripture tells us CHRIST IN YOU...no longer I But Christ in me.

YES the Spirit of the LIFE of Christ lives in us, and His Life in us is in conflict to our old adam nature...that is why our old nature is CRUCIFIED with Christ. the two cannot co-exist!

Galatians 4:19
---- until Christ be formed in you,
---kathr4453 on 4/5/10


Michael, without been sarcastic, I would have to say "you are not 100% deity." If you are God, then all of us are God's, we only have One God. What we do have is a relationship with Christ because we are alive to Christ. If the Spirit of God was confined in all of us, and since He is Spirit, He would not be Omnipresent, everywhere.
If Christ was living inside of us He would not be at the right hand of the Father. You are a new creation. Spiritually alive to the moving of the Spirit. You are still have the same nature you had before, the only difference is that you are forgiven. Covered with the righteousness of Christ. Take that off and you are the same old sinner.
---MarkV. on 4/5/10


So...what is the Holy Spirit but 100% divinity dwelling in us? Are we not 100% human? Does not the flesh war with the Spirit?
Is this not the essence of the 2 natures?
Can we not be hard hearted and proud (carnal) when we should be humble and willing to accept truth (spiritual)?
---MIchael on 4/4/10


Only Jesus Christ had two natures, 100% human, 100% deity (God). No one else (person) in this world has two natures. The human and divine natures of Christ is given explicit divine revelation in at least seven majoy passages (Phil. 2:6-11, John 1:1-14, Rom. 1:2-5, 9:5, 1 Tim. 3:16, Heb. 2:14, 1 John 1:1-3). These passages make it evident that the eternal Son of God took upon Himself a complete human nature and became Man. The act of incarnation was not a temporary arrangement which ended with His death and resurrection but as Scripture makes evident, His human nature continues forever.
---MarkV. on 4/4/10


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The Bible never uses the terms "Old Nature" or a "New nature." If you can find those terms please show where they are found.
There is a reason why God does not use those terms, and the reason is because it would make salvation and "addition" Salvation is transformation, not an addition. "If any man be in Christ, he is a "New Creation" But that new creation still has a problem, Sin within your flesh..your humanness. Just call it what the Bible calls it, "Sin that is in you, that is in the flesh" So long as you have humanness, you have sin, but you are a New Creation in that the Spirit begins to transform us to the image of Christ.
---MarkV. on 4/4/10


Oh, my goodness, can I relate to this. Hallelujah. Thank you my Father for your Son who came to defeat the evil one. Yes. We must make our time count, because one day God will move me on. Ahhhh.....God has spoken: "as long as you keep following Me, you will be saved". Hallelujah.
---catherine on 4/3/10


"You stopped just short of the verse that would have answered your question."
Mark_Eaton on 4/1/10

It makes no difference, redeemed or unredeemed, they both sin alike and do not sin alike. They were all 'unredeemed' to whom John the Baptist said, "Repent", and to whom also he said "Bring therefore...". Why? Because they could. They were all 'unredemeed' to whom God accerted, Isaiah 1:17: "Learn to do well, seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow." My issue is with those who say Jesus, and leave their faith unnourished, 2 peter 1:5_12.
---Nana on 4/2/10


1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.



MarkV, we've discussed this before. If YOU don't have 2 natures then YOU cannot sin. You are now sinless perfection? But wait..you do sin. Does your New Nature sin? Impossible...scripture clearly states that which is BORN OF GOD cannot sin.

Your flesh or old man does sin, and will always SIN. It can't help itself. That is WHY we walk in the spirit so we don't give way to our old sinful self nature.
---kathr4453 on 4/2/10


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***when I got saved, nothing happens to my old nature, I jut get something else. So salvation is not transformation, it's addition. I was an old nature and I'm still an old nature, I just got something new. So nothing changed. That is very difficult to defend Scripturally. "If any man be in Christ, he is a new creation" It has got to be a metamorphosis, it has to be transformation.
---MarkV. on 4/2/10

MarkV nothing happened to your old nature? Wasn't your old man Crucified with Christ. Gal says those who are Christ's have CRUCIFIED the Flesh....the OLD sin nature...Adam 1! Because in God's eyes ADAM died with Christ at Calvary you are seen IN CHRIST Only as a New Creature...My Old man is NOT TRANSFORMED it's CRUCIFIED!!!
---kathr4453 on 4/2/10


Mark 14:38 Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly [is] ready, but the flesh [is] weak.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Gal 5:16-18 [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Old sin nature-flesh, new nature-spirit
So many people get hung up by certain words not being in the Bible, yet the concept is there. (trinity, dinosaur, others)
---MIchael on 4/2/10


Christians don't have two natures. The Bible never uses the term "old nature" but that not all, it never uses the term "New Nature" either. Those are artificial terms that many have sort of conjured up.
Using those terms will create a big problem. The problem is it make salvation "Addition" In other words, when I got saved, nothing happens to my old nature, I jut get something else. So salvation is not transformation, it's addition. I was an old nature and I'm still an old nature, I just got something new. So nothing changed. That is very difficult to defend Scripturally. "If any man be in Christ, he is a new creation" It has got to be a metamorphosis, it has to be transformation.
---MarkV. on 4/2/10


Now, if man is incapable of not sinning, when Paul said "flee fornication", was he talking to Christ instead of the likes of us?
---Nana on 3/31/10

You stopped just short of the verse that would have answered your question.

1 Cor 6:20 "For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body".

We have been bought with a price, purchased, redeemed and we do have control over our carnal lusts. The Scriptures tell us that we go "presenting the members of our bodies to immorality". It is our choice not to sin, now that we have been redeemed. This is the truth of Romans 6:

Rom 6:7 "For he who has died has been freed from sin".
---Mark_Eaton on 4/1/10


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Nana, Paul was talking to Christians.

Jesus dealt with SIN ( US) at the Cross. Our old man is crucified with Christ. Our old man being adam 1. Now as Christians we have TWO natures, that fight against one another within.

Our obedience is NOW to walk in the Spirit. ONLY a saved person can do that. Unsaved people do not have the spirit of the LIFE of Christ in them to set them free from the law of sin and death.

Satan wants to continually try to defeat the Christian, by trying to bring them back in the flesh, or back under law. GRACE, which is Christ in you Galatians 2:20 & 219 points to Romans 6) is the answer to our life now.

---kathr4453 on 4/1/10


Sin reigns in unsaved people. ... It has spread to ALL men and only Christ can set us free from it.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/31/10

1 Corinthians 6:1: "Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?" Were he not speaking to those who may be called 'saved' nowadays?
Must be, for he said, "and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?". He gives a laundry list of sins and warns that he who does such, "shall" NOT "inherit the kingdom of God."
Now, if man is incapable of not sinning, when Paul said "flee fornication", was he talking to Christ instead of the likes of us?
---Nana on 3/31/10


Thank you Mark E.
I had an idea but wasn't completely sure.
that definition makes sense, especially with all the verses about warring against the flesh after we have been born of the spirit.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
1Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring [it] into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin
Now, do those that say we do not have a sin nature have a different definition?
---MIchael on 3/31/10


Could someone define 'sin nature' for me please? Maybe someone from both sides of this discussion?
---MIchael on 3/30/10

Rom 5:12 "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned"

Sin reigns in unsaved people. We are captive to it, we are enslaved by it. We are powerless over it. It dwells in our flesh and controls both our body and mind. We are born with it. It has spread to ALL men and only Christ can set us free from it.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/31/10


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I find that when you are serving God and being totally submissive and God really runs your life, the more the enemy tries his best to run you down. Don't believe what he says because Jesus says he is the father of lies. Rebuke him in the name of Jesus every time.
---miche3754 on 3/31/10

Absolutely, Scripture tells us Satan tries to WEAR OUT the Saints!! I can so relate to what Elder said, and can also testify that through these ordeals, God uses them to stregthen us, ground us in His Word leading to a strong foundation ..ON ROCK, and we LEARN through these trials how faithful GOD is and how true and wonderful His Promises. I would know what I know or be who I am today without ALL God has allowed into my life. He uses it for GOOD!!!
---kathr4453 on 3/31/10


I agree Kath, man is not totally depraved.
But you and I know some try so hard to teach that.

Back to blog question. I find that when you are serving God and being totally submissive and God really runs your life, the more the enemy tries his best to run you down. Don't believe what he says because Jesus says he is the father of lies. Rebuke him in the name of Jesus every time.
---miche3754 on 3/31/10


But Miche, we are not depraved without conscience to know right from wrong and know we are SINNERS!
---kathr4453 on 3/31/10

Absolutely.

We know who God is and what He expects from us. This is the truth of Romans 1 and how God can justly judge those who will say that they never heard of God or of Jesus.

Anyone who tells you different is not telling you the truth.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/31/10


I believe there is a difference between SIN and SINS. We are sin.

David said I was altogether born in sin. He wasn't talking about his mother being a harlot. Sins are the fruits of the root which is sin. The root, sin, is an inherited disease.

Things which are said to be true of sin are not applied to sins, and vice versa. And God's method of judging and of dealing redemptively with sin differs from His method of judging and of dealing with sins.

By understanding the differenc between SIN, which is what we are, makes understanding salvation so much easier.

But Miche, we are not depraved without conscience to know right from wrong and know we are SINNERS!
---kathr4453 on 3/31/10


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YES we inherited death by nature from Adam's sin, I don't care how good you think you might be..it's not good enough! - kath

This is true, sis. But what I think what they are saying about "sin nature" is that man is totally depraved and doesn't do any good at all period. Remember that conversation we had with Markv about this?
I think that is what they mean, sis.

You are right though, we do inherit the ability/desire to sin from Adam. We can't get rid of it without Christ.
---miche3754 on 3/31/10


Could someone define 'sin nature' for me please? Maybe someone from both sides of this discussion?
---MIchael on 3/30/10


Ephesians 2:3
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

BUT NOW IN CHRIST ONLY who's nature do we have?
Certainly not our own..there is nothing at all good in our own fleshly adam 1 nature!

YES we inherited death by nature from Adam's sin, I don't care how good you think you might be..it's not good enough!

2 Peter 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
---kathr4453 on 3/30/10


"Following the Bible, the Orthodox Church teaches that we are NOT sinners "by nature," that sin is EXTRINSIC to our nature. (This is not to say we do not sin, but that there's no such thing as a "sin nature.")"
Cluny on 3/25/10

I agree with that, Romans 1 attest to it.
---Nana on 3/26/10

Amen! I agree too!
---miche3754 on 3/30/10


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"Following the Bible, the Orthodox Church teaches that we are NOT sinners "by nature," that sin is EXTRINSIC to our nature. (This is not to say we do not sin, but that there's no such thing as a "sin nature.")"
Cluny on 3/25/10

I agree with that, Romans 1 attest to it.
---Nana on 3/26/10


Jesus had a full human nature, as well the full divine nature--two natures in one person. Cluny on 3/25/10
Jesus' Father made Him different in that HE was made In His Father's PERFECT image. You and I were not made perfect, and had one sinful nature.

Gen. 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him, male and female created he them. 1st Adam 2nd. Adam,Jesus created perfect

Gen.5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in HIS own likeness, and after HIS image, and called his name Seth
Seth and all that follow born in sin
---michael_e on 3/26/10


\\We are sinners by nature, but because of Jesus we are also the rightousness of God.\\

Following the Bible, the Orthodox Church teaches that we are NOT sinners "by nature," that sin is EXTRINSIC to our nature. (This is not to say we do not sin, but that there's no such thing as a "sin nature.")

\\Just because you sin, does not mean you are not saved, it just means you are human (not Jesus).\\

Jesus had a full human nature, as well the full divine nature--two natures in one person.
---Cluny on 3/25/10


God is greater [than your fears].
And "this is the witness of God, which He has testified of His Son.
He who believes in the Son of God has 'the witness' (His Sprit) in himself,....
And this is [His] testimony:
God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
He who has the Son has life.
These things I have written to you who 'believe' (trust) in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may [continue to] 'believe in' (rely on) the 'name' (authority and character) of the Son of God.
Now this is the confidence that 'we' (as believers) have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us." Refs. 1John 5:9-15 Pray dear heart. Jesus loves you.
---josef on 3/26/10


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---Leslie on 3/25/10 Paul was saved, but still sinned daily. Just because you sin, does not mean you are not saved, it just means you are human (not Jesus).

Amen, Leslie, that is the reason Paul tells us To follow him as he followed Christ 1Cor. 11:1, Phil. 3:17
---michael_e on 3/25/10


1Corinthians 10:13 There's no temptation taken you but such that is common to man:but God is faithful,who will not suffer you to be tempted above that you are able,but will with the temptation also make a way for you to escape,that you may be able to bear it. Hebrews 2:18 In that he himself has sufferd,he is able to succour them that are tempted. James 1:14 But every man is tempted,when he is drawn away of his own lust,and enticed. James says it well for if we fill our minds with the things of God,reading the Bible,praying and praising God continually,then our minds have no room for the lust of life. Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him,thou shall love the Lord thy God with all your heart,soul,and mind. Take time to be alone with God every day.
---Darlene_1 on 3/25/10


You feel half evil and half rightous because you are. We are sinners by nature, but because of Jesus we are also the rightousness of God. Paul who was saved said "the things I want to do, I don't do, and the things I don't want to do, I do". Paul was saved, but still sinned daily. Just because you sin, does not mean you are not saved, it just means you are human (not Jesus).
---Leslie on 3/25/10


Adrian, cry out to the Lord, "Lord help me, Lord please show me what to do."

I can actually tell you that you should indeed praying, but also commanding that thing to go IN JESUS NAME. Do everything In Jesus name.

Plead the blood of Jesus over your body. I plead the blood of Jesus over my mind, my body, my emotions, my will, my mind, and everywhere inside my body IN JESUS NAME.

I command every foul spirit to GO in Jesus name. You have no authority over me and I command you to GO in Jesus name. I will be praying for you also. (((huggss)))
---Donna5535 on 3/25/10


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Adrian, I have never doubted my salvation but I have had problems with explaining my salvation to myself. After some time I decided to write out what I believe, why I've believe it, and what the Bible had to say about salvation. Immediately upon seeing my beliefs in writing I then had a way of explaining why I was saved. This brought great relief to me and I thank the Lord for it.
---mima on 3/25/10


Ancient Christian spiritual writers advise to ignore physical feelings during prayer, such as your "hot prickly burning manifestations."

These are temptations, and nothing more.
---Cluny on 3/25/10


Adrian, I, and a lot of other people, have gone through just what you are now.
When I was lost and professing to be Saved there was nothing that could make me doubt "my salvation."
When I really got Saved the doubts came. Satan tormented me also. I reviewed God's "Plan of Salvation" and realized that I believed this and that as Scripture taught. I had accepted God's plan as He gave it. I realized that I identified with what the Scripture taught. Now when doubt comes I remember that I trust Jesus.
Again, Satan never made me doubt until I really got Saved. Satan can't condemn me/you so he tries to make me/you ineffective. That is what is happening to you if you are in tune with what the Scripture teaches.
---Elder on 3/25/10


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