ChristiaNet MallWorld's Largest Christian MallChristian BlogsFree Bible QuizzesFree Ecards and Free Greeting CardsLoans, Debt, Business and Insurance Articles

Doctrines Of Christianity

What do you consider to the difference between important and trivial, between fundamental and "padding", with regards Christianity? (e.g. Salvation by faith, head coverings, service structure)? What's really important?

Join Our Christian Singles and Visit Our Apostles Creed
 ---simon7348 on 3/30/10
     Helpful Blog Vote (6)

Post a New Blog



In essentials - unity, in nonessentials - liberty, and in all things - charity.
Humans are corrupt, can earn no favors from God, and need salvation. Messiah Jesus (fully man - fully God) though sinless, died in our place to pay the price for our sins, (grace / unmerited favor through faith). And that He was resurrected, ascended, that He is the only mediator between God and man, will return, judge, and reign. Trinity - Deity and unity of Father, Son Jesus, Holy Spirit, The Gospel. The ultimate authority of the Bible and that it is Divinely inspired, infallibile, inerrant, and with the Holy Spirits help can be understood.
---Glenn on 4/6/10


Fulfil does not mean to do away with

Matthew 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer [it to be so] now: for thus it becometh us to FULFIL all righteousness.

If fulfil meant to do away with, then Jesus did away with all righteousness.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

If fulfil meant to do away with, then we are free to commit adultery because Jesus did away with it.
---francis on 4/6/10


We must come to a reality of what it means for God not to change. Especially when God said that his word is above his name.

It means that when God says anything, his word is his bond. he cannot sware by anyone but himself.

We must also come to a good understanding of what the old and the new covenant is.
We cannot excape the reality of the sanctuary
That the sanctuary and all its services was only a teaching tool to show what christ would do for us.

We cannot excaoe the fact that sin still exists in the world. We cannot get away from what sin is: The transgression of the Law of God.

We must accept that Jesus is God, and nothing that jesus did or said can change the Law of God.
---francis on 4/6/10


James 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

If what some are saying is true: that God changed his Laws and his doctrines, then we cannot trust God.

For many times God has said that he DOES NOT CHANGE. He does not change his Love, his mercy, his Laws, nor is Doctrine.

And now if Jesus who is God come on the earth and changed any of the words of God then he cannot be trusted, and he would not be God, because he would then be DOUBLE MINDED.

James 1:8 A double minded man [is] unstable in all his ways.


Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
---FRANCIS on 4/6/10


LEE get a BIBLE, a WHOLE BIBLE all 66 books.

Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie, neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not, therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Psalms 102:27 But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Hebrews 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines.

Psalms 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
---francis on 4/6/10




the important thing is to understand Paul's
Gospel 1 Cor. 15:1-4.
He tell's us in Rom 2,16 God will judge our secrets by my gospel(1Cor 15:1-4)
---michael_e on 4/6/10


Jerry //What Bible are you reading? Mine says:

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Agree!! according to 'the Promise' not according to the law given on Mt. Sinai.

If we were subject to the Mosaic laws, there would have been no need for a Jerusalem council to determine if Gentiles needed to be circumcised AND observe the laws of Moses.

Acts 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, AND keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Poor child Jerry! will he ever be set free in Christ to have an understanding of Holy Writ?
---Lee1538 on 4/6/10


Paul9594 on 4/5/10

OK I see you got my point. And added very important details.
James is talking about keep ALL Ten Tommandments ( THE WHOLE LAW)

Paul in Galations is saying we are NOT to keep any of the law sacrificial Laws.
( sanctuary Laws)


And although the phrase WHOLE LAW is used in both passages, they are not really talking about the same thing.
---francis on 4/6/10


Lee: "However, the church at the Jersusalem council did not mandate Gentile converts become Jewish - circumcision being the entrance rite into the Jewish religion."

What Bible are you reading? Mine says:

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Thus, ALL REAL Christians are spiritual Jews! That must really gall an anti-semite like you.
---jerry6593 on 4/6/10


Yes Paul9594 being Jewish (or Messianic Jewish) should keep all the laws of the OT dispensation.

However, the church at the Jersusalem council did not mandate Gentile converts become Jewish - circumcision being the entrance rite into the Jewish religion.

As such one may or may not observe certain days as holy i.e. we need not not to observe the various feasts (Lev. 23) and we need not observe even the Sabbath (see Romans 14).

Also there are no food restrictions on Gentile believers as some beleive they can eat anything others only herbs or vegatables. (14:2)

"Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?" Acts 15:10
---Lee1538 on 4/5/10




In Galations Paul discourages the believer from keeping the whole law. In James James encourages the believer to keep the whole law.

What is the difference?
---francis on 4/5/10

The difference is that Paul in Galatians is TELLING them that they are not justified by the works of the law, but from faith in Christ.

James does not encourage them to keep the whole law. Instead, James uses the statement about the whole law rhetorically, they should already know this fact. They were practicing favoritism but believing that they had done nothing wrong. James tells them they have sinned and are tried and found guilty by the law, and the punishment is the same as if they had broken the whole entire law.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/5/10


Francis: Part 2
The only teachings/instructions we dont keep even those in the form of commandments are of the sacrificial laws and those related to them.

Why not keep sacrificial laws?

Because our Father has the power to re-establish a temple, priests, etc, so that we could keep these sacrificial laws, but has NOT done so for nearly two millennium!

But we are to grow into all the other commandments as our faith grows, thereby our ability and understanding to keep them by the faith with have in Christ to empower us to do so, in the spirit of love.

Faith in His shed blood on the cross is paramount.. even to help us understand and walk after His commandments in the Spirit of love: Christ.
---Paul9594 on 4/5/10


Francis:

You mean well and have began to get a good grasp on the 10 commandments.

However these commandments have their definition and illustrations on how they are to be kept in the Law and the Prophets, Word, Scripture.

For instance commandment one, you shall have no other gods befor me.

This commandment is best kept according to the illustrations of Godly men in the Scriptures and not according to modern teachings of men.

You cannot keep first commandment without obedience to the Father to all His commandments, as believer grows in faith in Him and thereby ability, understanding, that we are to keep even the least commandment!

Christ never taught partial obedience to all His commandments.
---Paul9594 on 4/5/10


So, Israel continually sacrificed and Christians just accept the One Sacrifice. Since Christ fulfilled all the law and prophets becoming our new High Priest, there must be a change, for when there is a change in the Priesthood, there is also a change in the law.
Hebrews 7:12,14,28 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law...For [it is] evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda, of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood...For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity, but the word of the oath, which was since the law, [maketh] the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.
And you are all about the old law, francis.
---MIchael on 4/5/10


Of course it has changed it has changed from Physical to Spiritual, from Earthly to Heavenly.
--michael_e on 4/4/10

I do like that comment a LOT.

But changed is not the right word. the word is fulfilled. remember Genesis 3,15 jesus promised to bruise his head. Well it wa sthe promoses of the dying messiah.

Ever since that promise men have been sacrificing in faith of the deathof the true amb to come.

The death of every animal was just as physical as the death of christ. In both death were spirituality.

Faith. the earthly sanctuary was carried out in faith that Jesus would die, the heavenly sanctuary is carried out on faith for what Jesus did.
---francis on 4/5/10


---Donna66 /-michael

There may not be much that we agree on now. However, here is something we can all agree on:

Genesis 3:15 God gives a promise of redeemption through the death of his Son.

Then God gave an earthly sanctuary as a school master to teach men the plan of redeemption.

Every sacrifice represented the promised death of Jesus. Those who sacrificed did it in faith of the Messiah who would come. The animal sacrifice never took away sin, it only pointed to the One who would die for sins.

The earthly sanctuary no longer exists, but it's discription remains as part of the bible. We can today go to the bible and look at the earthly sanctuary and teach anyone the plan of redemption.

We agree on that?
---francis on 4/5/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Lasik Surgery


Submiting to JESUS is to know the Law defines sin. For JESUS gave the Commandments after all He is GOD and GOD gave the Ten Commandments. Reality check most Christians believe that only one of the Ten Commandments can and has to be disobeyed. Most do not think that a professional hitman could come to JESUS and keep doing his job of murdering people. Or that Christians should use GOD's name in vain to show they are saved.

True we are not to use the law for righteouness.
Gal 3:21 [Is] the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

We studied this verse in our Sabbath school lesson.
---Samuel on 4/5/10


Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
---Donna66 on 4/2/10

Donns the answer to your post lies in the difference between Galatians 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the WHOLE LAW.

AND

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the WHOLE LAW, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

In Galations Paul discourages the believer from keeping the whole law. In James James encourages the believer to keep the whole law.

What is the difference?
---francis on 4/5/10


MOST IMPORTANT. Apostolic Is The teaching of the Apostles which started here, Mark 16 v 16, Acts 2 v's 37-41 which Fulfills Matt.28 v's 19-20. To the Jewish people First on the day of Pentecost. The Church of The Living God. There is less of the Apostolic body of God's Church in the world. Fear ye not little flock for you are ther Fathers good pleasure.
The lesser & NOT important. The light for the Man-made relig-org'd churches 2nd.Cor.11 v's 14-15 first with the rcc the first trin-church then her offspring churches with their paganism & False salvation teachings came later on, including the god of the muslim, buddha, hindu etc. The devil being like the pied-piper has many Big flocks in the world.
---Lawrence on 4/5/10


--francis on 4/2/10 See nothing has changed

Of course it has changed it has changed from Physical to Spiritual, from Earthly to Heavenly.
Israel sacrificed animals(physical, Law)
Christ sacrificed Himself(Spiritual,Grace)
Huge Difference

Thank you Donna
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
---Donna66 on 4/2/10
---michael_e on 4/4/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Bullion


Ga 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Unfortunately there are those who think you must obey the law to be righteous but they have little or no understanding what Christ did on the Cross on our behalf.

But their religion needs some means of measuring the spirituality of themselves and others.

They yell 'repent and obey the law' but the Christian would tell others to submit to Jesus for "He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, whom God made our wisdom and our righteousness and sanctification and redemption." 1 Cor. 1:30.
---Lee1538 on 4/3/10


Francis---michael e is right! We are not set free in Jesus, only to be put under more law.

Gal 3:1-3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
---Donna66 on 4/2/10


where do you keep your sheep and goats pigeons and doves? You must also have an altar to sprinkle the blood right?

the priest (small p) makes an atonement for you concerning your sin right?
---michael_e on 4/2/10

To answer ALL your questions:
1: If you break one you are guilty of all refers ONLY to the TEN COMMANDMENTS IE the law of liberty.

My sheep, goat, ETC is JESUS my sins are covered by His blood, the animals were only to be used as a teacher until christ came.

And yes i absolutely practice quarantin when I come into contact with anything potentially communicable in terms of disease.

Christ is my Priest who makes atonement for my sin.

See nothing has changed
---francis on 4/2/10


fransis,
(Gods word unchangable)
If Christ is not our covering-covering the head with a a sharf-hat-veil etc...will not change the truth-we are uncovered.
Deut22:5
The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man,neither shall a man put on woman's garmant:for all that do so[are]abomination unto the Lord thy God.
Women forbidden to wear pants and can only wear dresses or shirts?

---char on 4/2/10

I am not discusing the doctrine itself. What i am saying is this: regardless of how the doctrine affects us, If God said it it is not trivial, we must obey it.
And i say that without trying to interprete what it means. regardless of it's meaning, if we know it we must obey it.
---francis on 4/2/10


Send a Free Memorial Day Ecard


fransis,
(Gods word unchangable)
If Christ is not our covering-covering the head with a a sharf-hat-veil etc...will not change the truth-we are uncovered.
Deut22:5
The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man,neither shall a man put on woman's garmant:for all that do so[are]abomination unto the Lord thy God.
Women forbidden to wear pants and can only wear dresses or shirts?
At the time this was given-men wore shirts[loinclothes].So-Women can't wear shirts?
1Sam17:7
But the Lord said unto Samuel,"Look not on his countenance,or on the height of his stature,because I have refused him,for[the Lord seeth]not as man seeth,for man looketh on the outward appearance,but the Lord looketh on the heart."
---char on 4/2/10


Do you practice Lev. Chapter 5 ?
Yes i do ---francis on 4/2/10
Remembering the commandments, if you say you follw this and don't you have broken at least one of the commandments.

where do you keep your sheep and goats pigeons and doves? You must also have an altar to sprinkle the blood right?
Have you ever picked up a dead bird, worm or snake out of your yard?

the priest (small p) makes an atonement for you concerning your sin right?
---michael_e on 4/2/10


Do you practice Lev. Chapter 5 ?
---michael_e on 4/2/10

Yes i do
---francis on 4/2/10


Discernment francis,
Very few commands in the Bible apply to the followers of Christ, love being the deciding factor. Of course, if a person doesn't know how to love God and his neighbor, there is a 600+ item list He gave to His nation Israel because they were hardhearted and stiffnecked.
Following the golden rule in Christ suffices for others.
---MIchael on 4/2/10

If not the followers of Christ, whom do they apply to?
---francis on 4/2/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Menopause


Discernment francis,
Very few commands in the Bible apply to the followers of Christ, love being the deciding factor. Of course, if a person doesn't know how to love God and his neighbor, there is a 600+ item list He gave to His nation Israel because they were hardhearted and stiffnecked.
Following the golden rule in Christ suffices for others.
---MIchael on 4/2/10


---francis on 4/2/10 If the Bible addressed it, and gave any instructions on it, then it is valid and applicabale for today.
Do you practice Lev. Chapter 5 ?
---michael_e on 4/2/10


Francis --- I've heard the teaching about head-covering, but I don't consider it a doctrine. I believe it was a local custom that has no necessary application for today.
If you want to observe it, of course you may.
---Donna66 on 4/1/10

If the Bible addressed it, and gave any instructions on it, then it is valid and applicabale for today.

I consider God and his word unchanging.
---francis on 4/2/10


The only things that are really important are the Biblical ones, and the (older, in fact) Nicean Creed (from the city in Turkey) where the Christians finally agreed to decide what books where Biblical and which were not. It is almost the same as the Apostles creed. Of the comments listed, head coverings and service structure are not mentioned, and are a matter of person preference AS LONG AS they do not go agains anything listed in the Bible. Salvation by faith is a matter listed in the Bible (with the comments in James looking a bit strange, but they must be taken as true). A quick note: the bible books where checked AGAINS the Creed, NOT the other way round.
---peter3594 on 4/2/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Penpals


Donna66, I really like your comments about things being important for anyone who beleives them, though I think it is not always the case. The Christians about 1700 years ago had a similar problem (then it was about which letters - now books - should be considered Biblical, and which not). They sat down and dedcided which where the important doctrines of Christianity, and that it what is now called the Nicean Creed (almost identical to the Apostles). Then, they checked each book of the Bible against that, and those which passed were incorporated into the Bible. Disagreement about minor matters is normal, because those are usually by 'interpreting' a part of the Bible to work out what we should do. Don't worry about that
---peter3594 on 4/2/10


This is what Christ, the Apostles called the Bible.

Should we not follow their example into the church age?
---Paul9594 on 4/1/10

By this rationale Paul, you seem to be saying that the words of Jesus and the Apostles are not Scripture and are not to be followed.

If I had to choose one Scripture to follow for the rest of my life, this would be the Scripture:

John 14:21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him".

His commandments are MORE than just the 10.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/1/10


What is important and fundamental are the 10 commandments being kept according to the illustrations set by the Law and the Prophets, Scriptures, Word, This is what Christ, the Apostles called the Bible.

Should we not follow their example into the church age?
---Paul9594 on 4/1/10


Trust God-Ask God.
*Our NEED is to know-HIS WILL.
Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace,that we may obtain mercy,and find grace to help in time of need.Heb4:16
*Ask in HIS Name.Jn14:14,15:16,16:23-24
*Because you can.Matt27:51,Mk15:38,Lk23:45
*Not man-me-or any other-listen-with Heed.1Jn2:27
...But the anointing which have recieved of Him abideth in you,and ye need not that any man teach you:
*Holy Spirit is Teacher.Jn14:26
But the Comforter,[which is]the Holy Spirit,Whom the Father will send in My name,[he]shall teach you all things,and bring all things to your remembrance,whatsoever I have said unto you.
Jn15:26,Jn15:26,Jn16:7
---char on 4/1/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Accounting


Francis --- I've heard the teaching about head-covering, but I don't consider it a doctrine. I believe it was a local custom that has no necessary application for today.
If you want to observe it, of course you may.
---Donna66 on 4/1/10


Once you have questions, or have learned about any doctrine or issue, you muct incorperate it into our life.

If you have learned about head covering, then you must follow what you have learned.

You may not learn everything at once, but it is important to learn it all, and follow it all.

I would hate to think that somewhere some pastor is not teaching a doctrine because he does not think it is essencial.

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

If the Bible is clear, we should all agree. Unless is not always clear.
---francis on 4/1/10


THE BLOOD! That is what saves lost souls. "Nothing but the Blood"....After you are saved by His Blood, then it's not over yet. You must, for the rest of your life, follow Jesus. Let it be in prison, in a palace, or on a ship. And you must trust God to get you to heaven. This is the most important doctrine [the Blood], and not many are preaching it today. Unbelievers will make fun of you when you do, or mock it. [some] God likes for me to use the word, some.
---catherine on 3/31/10


These posts are a good example of WHY the church cannot seem to "agree in spirit".
People think everybody should agree with THEIR doctrine, ALL of it.

Perhaps the word "trivial" is the problem. No doctrinal issue is trivial to those who believe it.

But we are to be agreed in SPIRIT, not necessarily in doctrine. How about just sharing a love for Jesus and a love for each other (even if we don't agree about everything.) And if somebody says "I love Jesus" why not just take them at their word? Don't DEMAND that they pass some test. If they don't really love the Lord it will become apparent in time.
---Donna66 on 3/31/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Fundraisers


All doctrines are equaly important, all are very escential. But some are babies in the faith, in due time they will learn, and obey every word.
---francis on 3/31/10

Again, you are missing the point of this blog question.

Even as believers, we will NOT agree on everything. We already know our differences of opinion, you and I. We will continue to disagree on Scriptures and application.

However, what are the essential things that we MUST agree on? Surely you see what I am asking? You cannot reply with ALL or else the only one who you will ever agree with is yourself.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/31/10


All is important. there is no such thing as a non escential doctrine.

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God [is] pure: he [is] a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

And in all that, i would make room for growth.
All doctrines are equaly important, all are very escential. But some are babies in the faith, in due time they will learn, and obey every word.
---francis on 3/31/10


Does it say that we were not christians before?
---francis on 3/31/10

Again, I am not sure what you are getting at. In 19th century speech I would say you are "beating around the bush".

You seem to be hinting about denominations. I personally think denominations are trivial and non-essential. They serve to only divide and fragment the body of Christ. They should only serve as a starting point, as a matter of introduction, like the purpose a business card serves.

If we can agree with 1 Cor 15 (the gospel in a nutshell), the Apostles creed, or the essence of my original list, then we are brothers/sisters in Christ regardless of your denomination.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/31/10


Even teaching Scripture can be distorted and done in a false manner.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/31/10

The same way in which one can say that LDS is not christian, can not a LDS say the same of ue?

Conversion between denominations is very common. What does it say when we leave one demonination for another?

Does it say that we were not christians before?
---francis on 3/31/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Ecommerce


I agree every part of Christianity is important. But interpretation and customs can cause a difference that is trivial.

The essential of the Gospel is that you must believe that GOD inspired the Bible. That JESUS lived a sinless life dies for our sins and rose from the dead to go be with the Father where he intercedes for us as our High Priest. We should agree that sin is wrong and that Christians should strive to live for JESUS.

Sola Grace, Sola Faith Sola scriptora should be essential.

Finally to Love GOD with all we are and love our neighbors as ourselves. These are the essentials.
---Samuel on 3/31/10


Simon, There are many important commandments and instructions in the New Testament, but all Christians worship and obey Christ only. And the Word can be summed up in two important words: Love the Lord God Jesus with all your heart and life and conscience and might, and love your neighbor as you love yourself. And our love is expressed and evidenced by our actions and doings.
---Eloy on 3/31/10


Would it then not hold true that to a member of the LDS church that you and I are outseode of christianity?
---francis on 3/31/10

I am not sure what you are trying to get at.

The reason why we believe that LDS is outside of Christianity is that they hold Joseph Smith's writings as high as Scripture. We do not and for good reason.

God told us in the OT that the sign of a false prophets (and false teachers) is that they take us away from the one true God and point us after another god.

This is in fact what the writings of Joseph Smith do and why he is considered a false prophet/teacher.

Even teaching Scripture can be distorted and done in a false manner.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/31/10


We can split hairs on this issue if you allow it.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/31/10
Your entire point was very very well stated.
Now here is another point of view:
Based on what ytou said, a member of the LDS church would be outseode of christianity.
(I am assuming you would agree).

Would it then not hold true that to a member of the LDS church that you and I are outseode of christianity?
---francis on 3/31/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Jewelry


Who came up with that list?
or more important, where in the Bible is a list of what is important and what is not?
---francis on 3/30/10

We must agree on who Jesus and The Heavenly Father are or we can go no farther.

Talk with a friendly LDS neighbor and you will find that you do not agree with them on who Jesus and God are, even though they will agree with every Scripture you speak to them and they confess that they have been saved and are a Christian.

People can agree with the words of Scripture and disagree on meaning and application. Meaning and application are what I was referring to.

We can split hairs on this issue if you allow it.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/31/10


Frances - If you are talking to a person who doesn't give anything to the Lord and doesn't BELIEVE in the Lord... which doctrine would you put first? Giving or Salvation?
---donna66 on 3/30/10
Like I said, I think they are connected.
If you knew the lord you will give.

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
---francis on 3/31/10


Picking and choosing bits and parts of the Word to obey is sin...---Eloy on 3/31/10

Hi Eloy, perhaps I was too vague in the question if that is what you're referring to - I'm not suggesting we pick and choose, that wasn't the intention of the question. We all have different opinions as to how some parts of the Bible should be understood and I was interested in what we do all agree on - if we don't agree on the central message of the Bible then we are not Brothers/Sisters in Christ. We are guided by the Spirit but we are still human and we were created differently. It's why I mentioned service structure as an example. Some days I'm just not very clear in my communication!
---simon7348 on 3/31/10


Picking and choosing bits and parts of the Word to obey is sin. Jesus says: "Man will live by Every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. Who if so breaks one of these least commandments, and teaches persons so, is called the least in the realm of heaven. For I say to you, except your righteousness be more plenteous then of teachers and ministers, you all will not enter into the kingdom of heaven."
---Eloy on 3/31/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Furniture


...this question of how to worship, is one of current interest---Donna66...

It's difficult sometimes in 125 words... I'd attended the church since 1979 (I was 2) with parents, later saved and baptised while I was there. Others attempted too rapid change. My dad (an elder) and I just introduced a few modern hymns by Robin Mark, Stuart Townend et al. It was done sensitively and well received. I love some of the old hymns as well so wouldn't lose them. There used to be young people when I was young but when I moved away 3 years ago the young element was/is gone. I digress though... perhaps it should be an alternative blog...?
Oh and by "lead" I meant chair, not lead the singing.
---simon7348 on 3/31/10


simon7348--- I don't know anything about the Brethren Church. But this question of how to worship, is one of current interest.

It's just my opinion, but If the people are "more elderly", why not let them sing some of the old songs/hymns that they already know and love?(providing a pianist among them volunteers to provide the accompaniment).
You won't have to "lead" other than get them started.

Teach them a new worship song or two, as well, if you please. Repeat several times. (A really novel idea would be to teach some young people an old hymn...why should the old be the only ones required to learn something new?)
---Donna66 on 3/30/10


Frances - If you are talking to a person who doesn't give anything to the Lord and doesn't BELIEVE in the Lord... which doctrine would you put first? Giving or Salvation?
---donna66 on 3/30/10


(contd)I was asked to lead a "Songs of Praise" service that my old church had every 5th Sunday evening. The church roots were Brethren but it was independent. The members more elderly and resistant to rapid change (no judgements here). Something I (and others) had struggled with was how some churches are different and yet the same... They agree on "fundamentals" but may differ on, for example, style of worship. Each song was supported by a Bible passage covering "difficult" topics for the church such as dancing, raising of hands. As some would say, there is a time and a place. You won't find me dancing in the aisles or putting on sackcloth, but who am I to judge?
---simon7348 on 3/30/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Laptops


Firstly, thank you for all the answers so far. I asked this for 2 reasons. 1 is to help us all see where we do agree and the second was to (hopefully) have a positive blog :-)

I agree that all is important and I guess I didn't want to trivialise any part of the Bible, but imagine you're telling someone on their deathbed their need of a Saviour, where do you start? Tradition and future works are effectively pointless, but we all know they can be saved through a sacrifice on the Cross.

tbc.
---simon7348 on 3/30/10


whats really important,jesus,following him everyday of your life,in all areas of your life,every waking second you are breathing,knowing he is whats important,what is the truth,and who has washed you clean and made you acceptable to God.thats whats important,oh yea keeping his commandments.
---tom2 on 3/30/10


2) With respect to this conflict, the people are going against Christ's instruction to "be of the same mind", "do not allow division", "do not be a respecter of persons". "Use sound doctrine". They are rebelling as a result of the prophesied Church Apostasy which precedes the final return of Christ. I pray God will get their attention. At least the elects so we can be of one Spirit/Love.
---jody on 3/30/10


Eph 4:3b-7 [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling, One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all. But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
Luke 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind, and thy neighbour as thyself.
Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
--These in unity I believe to be most important and fundamental.
---MIchael on 3/30/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Lawyer


Every doctrine may be important. But they are not equally important just because they both appear in Scripture.
Do teachings about "giving" have the same importance as the doctrine of "Salvation"?
Can't we fellowship on the basis of what we DO agree on?
---Donna66 on 3/30/10

I would think doctrine on giving is just as important as salvation, in fact I would say that they are connected.

Malachi 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

Malachi 3:9 Ye [are] cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, [even] this whole nation.

Who wants to be cursed with a curse for not giving to God?
---francis on 3/30/10


Another way I heard this type of question was, "What beliefs are you willing to die for?"

That Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, and that He died and rose again and is coming back. Consequently, I comment my life to Him.
---Rod4Him on 3/30/10


Simon, what is ONLY Important is your personal INTIMATE relationship to God through Jesus Christ. NOTHING else is that important. Anyone who majors in the minors is pushing RELIGION..Not Jesus. Jesus is not a religion, or set of rules or traditions, but the Person of God we fellowship with!

---kathr4453 on 3/30/10


1) A nicely layed out and formally stated doctrine of faith is found in the Appostles Creed. It was not invented by the RC and the word "Catholic" interprets to the word "Universal" and is unrelated to denomination. In times of doubt it is a beautiful praisful acknoledgement to God. The conviction of our belief, loyality, love and faith and oneness in God.
---jody on 3/30/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Dedicated Hosting


Personal salvation by faith plus nothing as our apostle Paul writes over and over.
The Apostle Peter backs it up late in his life 2 Pet 2:15.
---michael_e on 3/30/10


To me, this is one of the most important topics ever. I will be watching this blog closer than I have watched any other.
I truely want to know what is more important than the other, and how and who decided.

And I also want to know why one is moe important that the other.

This truely will be a learning experience for me.
---FRANCIS on 3/30/10


Salvation is #1 - ALL other issues of life come from this. If you are not saved first, then all other things do not matter and you will not have the faith for them. Also, without salvation, you will NOT make it to Heaven, but will burn in Hell. This is why it is #1 in importance.
---Leslie on 3/30/10


MarkE -- I appreciate your list. It's NOT found in Scripture in the same form, BUT it is certainly there! All of it! We need something like this to keep minutiae from dividing the body of Christ.

A lot of people are willing to agree "in spirit" with those who agree with them on every point of doctrine. To agree IN SPIRIT means just that... to agree in our salvation and fellowship with Jesus Christ,the almighty God

Every doctrine may be important. But they are not equally important just because they both appear in Scripture.
Do teachings about "giving" have the same importance as the doctrine of "Salvation"?
Can't we fellowship on the basis of what we DO agree on?
---Donna66 on 3/30/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Online Marketing


One of the things many Christians disagree about is "what's really important."
---Cluny on 3/30/10


"And now abides faith, hope, love, these three -- but the greatest of these is love." 1 Cor.13:13
---ger.toshav on 3/30/10


What is important is everything, but specifically what is fundamental for the unity of the church are:

1. What is our common salvation,
2. What is our relationship with God and Christ,
3. Who are God and Jesus
4. What is our relationship with other believers

These are a MUST for agreement with those who call themselves believers.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/30/10

Who came up with that list?
or more important, where in the Bible is a list of what is important and what is not?
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness
---francis on 3/30/10


Whatever God really does and shares with *you* is essential for *your* salvation (c: because it is part of how He changes you to become like Jesus so we are compatible with our Groom to spend all eternity with Him. The main thing is becoming perfected in His love: "Love has been perfected among us in this:

that we may have boldness in the day of judgment,

because as He is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17) And He has us sharing in unity of the Holy Spirit with others who are growing in His love (Romans 5:5), discovering together what He pleases to do with us. Make sure you are "one spirit with Him" (1 Corinthians 6:17), and submissive with the leaders whom God Himself trusts (Hebrews 13:17, 1 Peter 5:3).
---Bill_bila5659 on 3/30/10


Read These Insightful Articles About VoIP Service


What is important is everything, but specifically what is fundamental for the unity of the church are:

1. What is our common salvation,
2. What is our relationship with God and Christ,
3. Who are God and Jesus
4. What is our relationship with other believers

These are a MUST for agreement with those who call themselves believers.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/30/10


Every part of Christianity is important, and no part is to be trivialized. When every part is properly attended to, then you have the complete and beautiful and perfect masterpiece: for each element is established and instructed to work together to comprise the whole, but if you leave out one part of the recipee, then you will not obtain the right end for not following the right way.
---Eloy on 3/30/10


This is a very important question, and dear to me. I have yet to understand the between important and trivial doctrine, or essensial and none esential. To me it is all important.

I believe that all doctrine are equally important and none to be taken trivially.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier [matters] of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
---francis on 3/30/10


Copyright© 1996-2015 ChristiaNet®. All Rights Reserved.