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Problems Within Christianity

What problems do you find with Christianity and Christians?

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 ---mike on 4/5/10
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strongax, when I cite chapter and verse, you ask "Eloy, do you have any proof? We, God's people, do not celebrate the holidays in like manner as the pagans. Our days are measured from sun to sun, and not the moon. As I have posted before, the Hebrew day and sabbath was specifically measured from sun down up to sun down. The Bible is very clear: A specific day like the 14th, in a specific month like April for the Passover, named in the Holy Bible has nothing to do with a lunar calendar. strongax, I suggest that you re-read and accept the holy scriptures and end your substitution with heterodoxy.
---Eloy on 4/19/10


The problems are not with Christianity and Christians, but the problems are with nonChristianity and nonChristians who claim to be Christians falsely. These dead ones profess of themselves, falsely saying, "I'm a christian sinner", "I give ten percent". Let every one that names the name of Christ depart from sin. For Christ's reply to sinners: "I never knew you, depart from me all you workers of sin, into the lake of fire prepared for the devil and his angels."
---Eloy on 4/19/10


Axe: I agree completely. I think that part of the problem is that many Christians view their salvation as a one-time event - "I got saved" - rather than a life-long process of sanctification. If one thinks that he is good enough, and that he's got it made and can't stop sinning anyway (even by the indwelling power of Christ), then why not be a hypocrite? There's no downside if I can't be "un-saved".
---jerry6593 on 4/19/10


jerry6593:

While it is a bad thing to do something that is wrong, it is doubly damning to do it while at the same time telling others that it's wrong (i.e. hypocrisy). One can find hypocrites in all religions, but it is TRIPLY damning if they come from a religion that itself specifically condemns hypocrisy, as Christianity does. So when the world looks at a Christian who is a hypocrite, he already has three strikes against him. It is no wonder that, given such a witness, many people do not take Christians seriously.

As Paul wrote in Romans 2:24:
"For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written."
---StrongAxe on 4/18/10


\\Too many HYPOCRITES!
---catherine on 4/17/10\\

No matter how full the Church is of hypocrites, there's always room for one more, catherine.
---Cluny on 4/18/10




Yes theres is.Who is true,who isnt,where do you get your facts,by what you hear and see.Or what you dont see and hear,do you lean on your own understanding,not Gods word?
---nina_mccutcheon on 4/18/10


I think most people misunderstand Christianity and Christians.There is not enough space to even begin to comment on this statement. This is why we are not God and are not to judge and put others down. We do need to be born again and live the best life we can according to the Word of God. From that point, I try not to worry about Heaven or Hell. But when it is all said and done, I have to stand before God one day and be accountable for myself. If I can keep "me" straight, with the help of Jesus, I have done well.Finding fault with Christians/ Christianity will get us no where. We need to stay focused on Jesus and not be side tracked by anything or anyone.God will take care of the rest.
---Robyn on 4/18/10


"Too many HYPOCRITES!"
---catherine on 4/17/10

Everybody is a hypocrite - Christian, Hindu, atheist, or whatever.

Think you're not one? Take this simple test.

Do you always say and do everything you know to be right?

If the honest answer is NO, then you're a hypocrite.
---jerry6593 on 4/18/10


Too many HYPOCRITES!
---catherine on 4/17/10


Psalms 81:3 Blow up the trumpet in the new moon, in the time appointed, on our solemn feast day.
---MIchael on 4/17/10




Eloy:

Do you have any evidence that the ancient Israelites used the sun for their feasts? Note that the feasts are all listed relative to specific days of specific months - NOT specific days of the year. Also note that the word "month" comes from "moon" - that is, it was always originally tied to phases of the moon. In a technically unadvanced society, farmers and shepherds could not tell what day of the year it was without complex astronomical calculations - but EVERYONE could easily tell when the new moon fell.
---StrongAxe on 4/17/10


strong ax, the Hebrews used the sun as a measure for their feasts, and the sabbath was kept between the evenings from sun down up to sun down as commanded by God, and not the moon. The lesser moon was seldom used for measuring celebrations, except by the heathens. According to the scriptures the ancient Hebrew year was 12 months with about 30 days for each month: the 1st month always started in the spring in the month of Abib also called Nisan= April, 2- Zif= May, 3- Siuan= June, 4- Tammuz= July, 5- Ab= August, 6- Elul= September, 7- Ethanim= October, 8- Bul= November, 9- Chisleu= December, 10- Tebeth= January, 11- Shebat= February, 12- Adar= March. Please Read Exodus 12:1,2+ 13:4+ Deuteronomy 16:1+ Esther 3:7+ and the feasts in Leviticus 23.
---Eloy on 4/16/10


strong ax, the Hebrews used the sun as a measure for their feasts, and the sabbath was kept between the evenings from sun down up to sun down as commanded by God, and not the moon. The lesser moon was seldom used for measuring celebrations, except by the heathens. According to the scriptures the ancient Hebrew year was 12 months with about 30 days for each month: the 1st month always started in the spring in the month of Abib also called Nisan= April, 2- Zif= May, 3- Siuan= June, 4- Tammuz= July, 5- Ab= August, 6- Elul= September, 7- Ethanim= October, 8- Bul= November, 9- Chisleu= December, 10- Tebeth= January, 11- Shebat= February, 12- Adar= March. Please Read Exodus 12:1,2+ 13:4+ Deuteronomy 16:1+ Esther 3:7+ and the feasts in Leviticus 23.
---Eloy on 4/16/10


\\Cluny, please read John 1:1 then answer how a person can come to know God without knowing His Word?
---Rob on 4/14/10\\

The WORD is the Logos, not the written word, even the Bible.

When we say "Jesus is the Incarnate Word," you don't actually think this is a metaphor for saying, "Jesus is the perfect embodiment of everything in the Bible", do you?
---Cluny on 4/16/10


---Rob on 4/14/10
Michael E, what you wrote I have been trying to tell people for many, many years. But for some reason, they do not want to hear it.
Rob, Years ago, I was one that didn't want to hear it. Then I learned the scripture .. study.. rightly dividing, and it made sense. keep on keeping on

many spend more time studying books on how to study the Bible, than studying the Bible itself.
---michael_e on 4/15/10


Eloy:

As I quoted in the "Dumbest Question" blog:

According to Romans 14:5 and Colossians 2:16, while it's OK for us to have special days to celebrate, it's also OK for us not to - that is, to treat all days as equally important.

Also, the Jewish calendar is lunar (i.e. tied to the phases of the moon). All the feasts in the Old Testament are described this way. Our calendar is solar (i.e. tied to the sun). Moon and sun are not synchronized - new moons occur on different days of the month every year. So the Passover new moon may occur on April 14 one year, but a different day on other years. You can't just say "Passover is April 14", since that would be incorrect around 85% of the time.
---StrongAxe on 4/15/10


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strongax, the world will have their own dates of celebration, but we Christians should also have our own dates which coorespond with the holy scriptures to celebrate our memorial days. I always knew that the world's date used to celebrate Easter was not the correct date according to the Bible. When the scriptures clearly indicate April 14 was the Passover supper, and three days later was Jesus' Resurrection Day. Why anyone would implement a different day only shows their lack of Biblical knowledge. And then also, other countries like Canada also have diiferent dates for their holidays on the calendar then that of the western states do.
---Eloy on 4/15/10


strongax, the world will have their own dates of celebration, but we Christians should also have our own dates which coorespond with the holy scriptures to celebrate our memorial days. I always knew that the world's date used to celebrate Easter was not the correct date according to the Bible. When the scriptures clearly indicate April 14 was the Passover supper, and three days later was Jesus' Resurrection Day. Why anyone would implement a different day only shows their lack of Biblical knowledge. And then also, other countries like Canada also have diiferent dates for their holidays on the calendar then that of the western states do.
---Eloy on 4/15/10


We Christians (and I suppose most other people too) find it important to be right.

What this SHOULD mean is that we should try to make sure that we agree with God (i.e. we should "study to find ourselves approved", "search the scriptures daily to see if these things are so", etc.).

Unfortunately, many people turn this around and try to make sure God agrees with them - that is, they have an idea of how things ought to be, and then try to find scriptures here and there that support their particular viewpoint, regardless of how well those fit in with everything else.
---StrongAxe on 4/15/10


Passover started on April 14, 1525 B.C. at 6:00 p.m. when Moses was 80 years old. It consisted of eating unleavened bread, and the "Feast of unleavened Bread" continued 7 days, from April 14 to April 21. The New Passover, called Communion, started on Thursday April 14, 28 A.D. at 6:00 p.m. when Jesus was 32 years old. Early Sunday morning, three days after Jesus' last Passover supper, is Jesus' Resurrection Day, commonly called Easter. "Passover Communion" or "Resurrection Easter" is correctly celebrated on Sunday April 14 or the 1st Sunday immediately after April 14. (ref: Ex.12:1-18+ Lk.22:1-22,47-53+ 24:1-12).
---Eloy on 4/15/10


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Cluny, your analysis of I Tim 2:15 was of the best I have ever heard.

It's not what you know, but Who you know. :)
---Rod4Him on 4/14/10


Cluny, please read John 1:1 then answer how a person can come to know God without knowing His Word?
---Rob on 4/14/10


\\Big problem with "Christianity" is failure to adhere to 2Tim 2:15 "STUDY".. to show ourselves.. approved to God.. needing not to be ashamed...RIGHTLY(not wrongly) DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH(It is all true so we must rightly divide it as it applies to us The Body of Christ)\\

The Greek word here "spoudon" does not mean academic application, but rather to strive.

What we mean today by "strive" was frequently rendered by "study" in Tudor English (such as the KJV).

Saying that we find approval from God on the basis of how well we know the Bible is nothing but autosoterism and gnosticism, claiming we are saved by what we know rather than by Whom we know.
---Cluny on 4/14/10


Michael E, what you wrote I have been trying to tell people for many, many years. But for some reason, they do not want to hear it.
---Rob on 4/14/10


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Big problem with "Christianity" is failure to adhere to 2Tim 2:15 "STUDY".. to show ourselves.. approved to God.. needing not to be ashamed...RIGHTLY(not wrongly) DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH(It is all true so we must rightly divide it as it applies to us The Body of Christ)
---michael_e on 4/14/10


I understand where your coming from obewan.
I think what I was trying to say was we shouldn't get discouraged with all the rotten apples in the bin, It should rather encourage us to clean the bin. But, I think We're just seeing the same mess from different angles.. I hope we will all still vote as God leads us and let Him work in their hearts and minds.
---MIchael on 4/13/10


In the U.S., lack of love or reliance upon God. Christianity in many churches and individuals has been conformed to the world. It is big business. It has been divided into many factions that Jesus warned against. The good news is that Jesus knows His sheep and His sheep know Him. There are many even in this state of apostasy.
---jody on 4/13/10


Nana -- I was thinking primarily of Panama when I said "grass huts". And technically they had roofs of grass like thatch, possibly walls of something else or no walls at all. In Puerto Rico, I recall "shacks" or poor little houses, where Evangelical, Assembly of God, Pentecostal or Apostolic Churches met.
---Donna66 on 4/13/10


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I am saddened to hear that obewan.
I have a different view. I believe our governement should be filled with christians.
---MIchael on 4/13/10

I agree, but sadly that will never be reality.

For example, party A says let the states decide on abortion., party B says let abortion be available to everyone, and party C says ban ALL abortions (but does not have a snowballs chance in Hades of winning.) So at the end of the day, even "Christian" politicians compromise values to win elections. And then supporters of party A call supporters of party B or C non Christians or non-believers for not supporting the "best" possible outcome. Do you get my point now?
---obewan on 4/13/10


"In dozens of little shacks and grass hut Churces in Puerto Rico, Panama, Costa Rica...Otherwise there is only the village cathedral. Native evangelists walk from town to town."
---Donna66 on 4/12/10

I am from Puerto Rico and remember going to school, sustained only by the oatmeal grub served by the missionaries, having to swim in order to go to school upstream both ways. Rivers full of piranhas ... Well, enough of make believe, there are no 'grass hut Churces in Puerto Rico'.
---Nana on 4/12/10


I am saddened to hear that obewan.
I have a different view. I believe our governement should be filled with christians.
There would be less fighting and more Godly guidance. I do agree, however, that political discussions do get heated, even among christians. I believe our right to vote should be exercised by all of us so that the ungodly do not promote their unrighteousness throughout the country.
---MIchael on 4/13/10


Catherine-- Where are all these Christians I mention?

usually not from great crusades,
they're in towns and villages of Nigeria (they get tortured or martyred for their faith... yes, they are "real")..Tanzania, Kenya, Congo, Botswana, Zimbabwe, (they may be denied work, because of their faith)

In dozens of little shacks and grass hut Churces in Puerto Rico, Panama, Costa Rica...Otherwise there is only the village cathedral. Native evangelists walk from town to town.

Believers know when they make a decision for Christ, that they may be in danger, members of a hated minority (even by the RCC church.)

Tiny "home churches' in the Phillipines. They walk miles to attend and risk being robbed on the way.
---Donna66 on 4/12/10


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I am troubled that many Christians try to associate being a Christian FIRST with support for a political party.

Jesus clearly tried to teach his followers that his kingdom is not of this world. Since he is not running for office on this planet yet that leaves out any party I am aware of.

Sometimes I grow quite weary of all the fighting and bickering in America over politics. I wish the Church was more of a refuge FROM politics than a focal point for it. Something inside me cries "come out from among them..."
---obewan on 4/12/10


But, Donna, how do we know that Jesus is actually saving these people? Before I was actually saved I did the same thing, going to the altar and oh my yes, accepting the Lord. Lost as a three dollar bill. Where or what are all these Christians, today, anyways. God actually brought this to my attention. Millions are not being saved. As popular opinion dictates.
---catherine on 4/12/10


Catherine--- There are not many people being saved in North America or Europe today, because people there have hardened their hearts.

There are scores to hundreds coming daily to the Lord on the African and South American continents. Even in China, where the true church is in hiding, Christianity flourishes.

The problem is not with Christianity but with the rebelliousness of people.
---Donna on 4/12/10


A very serious problem is too many people are "JUST PLAYING CHURCH" They act like Christians on Sunday Mornings, but live like they belong to Satan the rest of the week.

This attitude draws people away from Christ.

An example is a Churchmate was trying to share the Gospel with a young man. The young man stated "I WANT TO GO TO HELL BECAUSE CHRISTIANS ARE EVIL AND I DON'T WANT TO BE AROUND THEM".

If you are a "TRUE CHRISTIAN" and you don't think it matters how you live your life, "THINK AGAIN".
---Rob on 4/12/10


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Everyone is a Christian, today. Come on. You can't be one without the Lord Jesus Christ living inside of you. It is impossible. I don't believe that Jesus is saving very many people, today. If He were, this world would be MUCH better. The devil would be a running. Jesus said only a few. Are you gonna call Him a liar? Do you dare? Yea.
---catherine on 4/12/10


\\Passover comes the 14 day after the NEW MOON in spring\\

And what astronomical phenomenon comes 2 weeks after new moon?

A FULL (or nearly so) moon.

In other words, Jewish Passover (as calculated today) comes around a full moon.

I'm willing to bet that the game of Find the Leaven they play just before Pesach traces back to a pagan custom, ultimately.
---Cluny on 4/8/10


**Easter comes the first Sunday after the first NEW MOON in spring
Passover comes the 14 day after the NEW MOON in spring.
---francis on 4/6/10**
---Cluny on 4/7/10

See even I can make an error. LOL
I am sure i got it right the second time.
---francis on 4/7/10


If passover falls on a new moon, and Easter on a full moon (I believe the formula is "the first Sunday after the first full moon in spring"), one would expect at least two weeks between them - yet this year, Passover was on a Monday and Easter was on Sunday - merely 6 days later. How is this possible?
---StrongAxe on 4/7/10

There was already a pagan celebration close to passover. It was the celebration of "The Queenof Heaven" or "Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians"

But Easter can fall anywhere as same day as passover if passover is a sunday to as far as a month away from passover.

Passover is a moveable holy day, it can be on monday, tuesday or any other day, easter is always a sunday.
---francis on 4/7/10


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\\There was no confusion on my part. the New moon, and NOT the full moon is the start of the month.
---francis on 4/7/10\\

Yes, there is, because this is exactly what you said earlier.

**Easter comes the first Sunday after the first NEW MOON in spring
Passover comes the 14 day after the NEW MOON in spring.

.....
---francis on 4/6/10**

To answer StrongAxe's question about the full moon by which Pascha and Easter are determined, it's a complex issue, but the Epacht or ecclesiastical full moon is NOT the same as the astronomical full moon.

These computations were reduced to formulas and tables centuries ago, and it's actually these that are being followed, rather than astronomical observations.
---Cluny on 4/7/10


strongaxe

I am talking about explanations interpretations outside a blog.

even if you go to church sundays, the verse pastors present are mostly vague & broad.

ie let's say you are enrolled in a computer class. it will take 100s of hours to learn computer hands on. instructor goes into specifics

but in the church, when a pastor explains a verse, 1 hour of 'sermon' message is not enough to practice it in reality because the it is complicated. and every person is different with different personalities.
i understand that this blog has 125 words.
---mike on 4/7/10


leon

luke 13:2
He said to them in reply, "Do you think that because these Galileans suffered in this way they were greater sinners than all other Galileans?

do you think that the 2004 earthquake was punishment?
---mike on 4/7/10


Cluny:

If passover falls on a new moon, and Easter on a full moon (I believe the formula is "the first Sunday after the first full moon in spring"), one would expect at least two weeks between them - yet this year, Passover was on a Monday and Easter was on Sunday - merely 6 days later. How is this possible?
---StrongAxe on 4/7/10


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francis, I've noticed that you're saying nothing about my main point, which is that you've confused new moon with full moon. They are in fact opposites, or nearly so.

Do you understand the difference now?

Or are you ignoring the simple fact that the basis of your comments is wrong?
---Cluny on 4/6/10

Well there was no confusion on my part. The New moon and the full moon are not the same. The new moon is the start of the month. At that time of month the moon is not as prominant as the full moon.

Full moon comes somewhere in the middle of the month,

In the Bible, the New Moon is the start of the new month. There was no confusion on my part. the New moon, and NOT the full moon is the start of the month.
---francis on 4/7/10


Mike: From Genesis thru Revelation, Sin is the major problem of mankind. The SIN problem transcends the pages of Scripture & even extends to the daily lives of born again believers (the Church). Yes, SIN is still the number one dilema, even for people who're saved by God's grace. That is why we're told to die to self (the flesh) & repent of our sins daily. (Romans 6, Ephesians 4:17-32)
---Leon on 4/7/10


...Hypocrisy
---chris on 4/6/10


I find plenty of problems with Christians, but none with Christ.
---larry on 4/6/10


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mike:

Unfortunately, with the 125 word limit on these blogs, if you quote one verse, you can only offer a limited explanation, and if you quote two or three, you're lucky if you can get a few words in edgewise.

So you are left with the choice of quoting a verse and leaving it for people to interpret it, or spewing out a list of a dozen scripture references and expect people to read them (and it's unlikely most will do so).
---StrongAxe on 4/6/10


AMEN!!!, michael e.
---Rob on 4/6/10


francis, I've noticed that you're saying nothing about my main point, which is that you've confused new moon with full moon. They are in fact opposites, or nearly so.

Do you understand the difference now?

Or are you ignoring the simple fact that the basis of your comments is wrong?
---Cluny on 4/6/10


many christians quote many verses with little or no explanation that is why others who need advice get more confused & stumble

another is the first answer to suffering is SIN. not all suffering is caused by sin. sometimes is it cause by ignorance & blind obedience.

another problem with christianity is the presence of Pharisees, experts in the law & hypocrites.

finally, the people in waco tx & jonestown were brainwashed(?) could not exercise the 'free will' they were given bec. they became prisoners of wrong teachings
---mike on 4/6/10


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Leon

that is what the neighbors of job said to him when his suffering started.

same in john 9 when the disciples asked 'who sinned because this man is blind him or his parents'.

this reminds me of Pat robertson of 0700 club when he said that the earthquake in haiti was caused by sin.
---mike on 4/6/10


The Jewish New Moon is the first crescent seen after this astronomical new moon.

The observance of the new moon was a pagan feast before the Jews adopted it.

Now what?
---Cluny on 4/6/10

New Moon represents New month

A common biblical term is New MOON which represents the New Month.

The month is based not on our current calanda, but ontherelation of the earth and the moon.

about the pagan thing and new moon Nope
Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

God ordained it
---francis on 4/6/10


I find no problems with true Christians, the problem is with self-proclaimed "Christians", being taught blenderized teachings
---michael_e on 4/6/10


Peter, Please do more research on the name 'EASTER" where it came from and how it got it's start.
---Rob on 4/6/10


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I find no problem with the Christianity the Bible teaches.

I find lots of problems with those who say they are christians and who live for self and do not try to help others.

Those who think they know it all and put others down who do not agree with them.

With those who concentrate on petty matters and neglect love of GOD and love of others.
---Samuel on 4/6/10


\\Easter comes the first Sunday after the first NEW MOON in spring
Passover comes the 14 day after the NEW MOON in spring.

...

And this is not a minor thing. The Bible is filled with warning about partaking of pagan feasts.\\

Apparently you are confusing the terms NEW MOON and FULL MOON.

A little research on the web shows that astronomically the NEW MOON is also called the "dark of the moon"--that is, when you can't see it.

The Jewish New Moon is the first crescent seen after this astronomical new moon.

The observance of the new moon was a pagan feast before the Jews adopted it.

Now what?
---Cluny on 4/6/10


\\Easter comes the first Sunday after the first NEW MOON in spring. Passover comes the 14 day after the NEW MOON in spring.\\

WRONG.

Both Pascha and Easter come after a FULL MOON, not new moon.

Oddly enough Passover always falls around a full moon itself, because a full moon always comes 2 weeks after a new moon--that is, when there's NO moon visible.

In any case, only German and English use the term "Easter." In other Germanic languages, as well as Romance and Slavic languges, it's PASCHA or some phonetic variant.
---Cluny on 4/6/10


The only 'pagan' part about Easter is the name - the date is set in the same way as the date of Christ's resurrection was, and it remembers the same thing. Don't complain so much about minor things
---peter3594 on 4/6/10

Absolutely not.

Easter comes the first Sunday after the first NEW MOON in spring
Passover comes the 14 day after the NEW MOON in spring.

Thus there is no way that ressurection sunday can always be the same every year.

And this is not a minor thing. The Bible is filled with warning about partaking of pagan feasts.

1 Corinthians 10:21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.
---francis on 4/6/10


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Paul, the only 'pagan'part about Easter is the name - the date is set in the same way as the date of Christ's resurrection was, and it remembers the same thing. Why do you call it pagan - I can see no reason to do so - if you don't like the name, just call it Ressurection Sunday, and you have a campletely Christian thing. Don't complain so much about minor things
---peter3594 on 4/6/10


None and nothing.
---Eloy on 4/5/10


I guess the main problem is that Christians believe so many contrary things, both within themselves and among each other.

As one recent blog showed, it's almost impossible to choose a central belief on which all true Christians can agree. (though I don't think this need be so.)

I've seen missioinary groups of different persuasions out preaching, together, the message of Salvation. Their differences faded in importance, when they reached out to those who knew nothing of the Gospel.

But generally, I see that Christians would prefer to flaunt their doctrinal differences, using them as proof they are "purer" Christians than all others.
The last thing they desire is "unity of spirit".
---Donna66 on 4/5/10


The problem with Christianity is that they don't keep the traditions of the Apostles.


Have you noticed the modern day Pharisees/judaizers?

They are those who keep the traditions of the men, which void the commandments of our Father even as the Pharisees did In Christs day!

Most Christians don't complain about keeping pagan holidays, Christmas, Easter etc.

But they throw fits if they are taubht to keep the Father's own feasts as He commands!
---Paul9594 on 4/5/10


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Cluny, there's a St. Peter's Antiochian Orthodox Church near us where the whole congregation decided some years ago to switch from Foursquare or AOG to Orthodoxy. It's an interesting story.
---ger.toshav on 4/5/10


the vast majoritys lives reveal secular living,or being of the world.
---tom2 on 4/5/10


The biggest problem I have with Christianity is myself.
---Bill_bila5659 on 4/5/10


Donna5535: "It wouldn't be right to point out problems as we are not called to do that."

Jesus did in the beginning of Revelation. And christians are, too, by righteous judging. If christians don't reveal the truth, they have blood on their hands for allowing christians to walk the wrong path toward the Kingdom of God.
---Steveng on 4/5/10


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The problem is twofold:

One is when christians follow denominational "church" doctrine - their ways of living, their traditions, and their interpretations of the bible. Denominational "churches" divide what Christ tried to unit. Denominational churches are a product of Satan.

And, two is when christians consider the church as a building, a non-profit corporation, or a denomination. Christians bicker among each other saying, "Our church is better," "Our church has better entertainment," "Our church has a better pastor," "Our church has a larger congregation," etc.
---Steveng on 4/5/10


Cluny:

"Follow me, even as I follow Christ" is predicated on "even as I follow Christ". Nobody is perfect. If B follows A, and C follows B, and D follows C, etc., there can be a little bit of error introduced at each stage, so by the time we get to Z, what he is following may be very different than what A started out with. But if B follows A, and C follows A, and D follows A, etc. the amount of error is greatly reduced.
---StrongAxe on 4/5/10


A recent article in a monthly magazine that was handed to me asked this question,Is protestanism failing?
My observation is that a house divided against itself cannot stand.
Jesus never instructed his followers to become a visual church-brotherhood.This is a fact because Paul later on made rules for a visible church-brotherhood.
---earl on 4/5/10


\\Then there are christians who are followers of christians
---francis on 4/5/10\\

What do you do with St. Paul's words, "Follow me, even as I follow Christ"?
---Cluny on 4/5/10


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there are two different types of christians

The first group are christians who follow christ.

Then there are christians who are followers of christians
---francis on 4/5/10


SIN!!!

---Leon on 4/5/10


It wouldn't be right to point out problems as we are not called to do that.

However, one thing that has always bothered me is churches taking up a building fund offering.

Two churches I know went and bought a church building and hoped the people would come. Instead, the ones who were there left and now one of those churches is losing their Pastor of 30 years because he feels called to go back home to another state.

It's the WORD OF GOD that draws the people, not a building. Why was it necessary for these 2 separate churches to buy buildings? One has only 25 members, the other had 200, now has about 75. Why couldn't they seek the Lord as to what the REAL problem was?
---Donna5535 on 4/5/10


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