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Sealed With The Holy Spirit

Ephesians 1-13
"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise," can this seal be broken?

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-- Miche :

Sister, God's Holy Spirit of Promise is an 'Unbreakable Seal' upon His Children's Hearts which are 'Persuaded' that neither things present nor things to come, shall be able to cause them to turn their back on God & separate them from His Love which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Miche, Maybe you need to Hear this Truth from someone else, who you believe stands with you !!!

The seal is as secure and tight as was the door closed on the Ark... Not a one of them was lost... GOD sealed the door.
No one jumped out, God didn't throw anyone out into the storm, no one accidentally fell out, and not a single animal was lost either.

The ARK represents Christ and we who are in Him. --Kathr on 4/9/10
---Shawn.M.T on 4/18/10


Okay Shawn,

Where is Markv's slap in the face like you gave me?
Tell me to ASK Markv what he believe? I already have and it IS what I stated in previous Blog. You lay with a son of the enemy and you don't even know it.

Markv,

I am confident in God and it doesn't matter what you or Shawn say.
The Blind leading the blind, that is what I see.
Blah, Blah,
Is better than the insults you have always repaid me for following the truth. But no one has the guts to stand up to you but me and Kath and that is fine. I know I have the Lord as MY Armor and I know what his word says. It isn't what you teach.
---miche3754 on 4/16/10


Miche, this is my last response to you personally. I will respond to what you say but not to you. You have abandon your faith for works. If a person does not show you works you think should be done to be save, you say he is fallen. The only problem is you don't know how much works he should do. And what you forget as I told you before that if your heart was contrite when you came to the Lord, then Christ blood has cleansed you for all time. But you will not believe the Truth if it was facing you right in the face. You want that person to continue to sacrifice day in and day out in order to be save, just as the Old Testament people use to do with their sacrifices, the reason I gave you Hebrew 10. Enough Truth has been given to you.
---MarkV. on 4/16/10


Miche, that is right what you said to me in your answer,
"This comes down to a relationship, Markv.
You either trust or you don't, love or you don't."

Believing in Christ is trusting in Him, you either trust Him or you don't.
Believing in Christ is loving Him, you either love Him or you don't. You cannot have it both ways. All that are born of the Spirit have become in love with Christ, we love Him because He first loved us. And no one can separate us from the love of God. We Trust Him because we have faith in Him. In a believers lifetime some times their faith is very low, but they never lose their faith completely for Christ. It is true genuine faith, that God provides for us. We are cleansed once for all time.
---MarkV. on 4/15/10


Miche, what's happening is, you are been expose that what you say is not true. Once you got your theology wrong, you have no choice but to defend it. The trouble is that you have a lot of truth, but that truth is mixed with a lie. And the two cannot reconcile and never will, you have to get rid of one. You know a lot of Truth, I have heard you, but you have a lot of false believes that pervert what you say. Having two theologies will not work. You know what God said, but you know what you believe already, and you do not want to give it up. At least listen to Jody. Saved once for all time by Jesus Christ our Savior.
This words you say, BLAH BLAH BLAH do not hurt me Miche, it only shows who you are and what your purpose is. Peace I leave you.
---MarkV. on 4/15/10




-- Miche :

Sister, Here an original idea : Why not try "Asking MarkV" what He Believes, b/c I've never Hear him proclaim that God 'Forces' us to Love Him .... You & Me could talk about 'What MarkV Believes' til the cows come home, but I'd rather talk to you about God's Word.

--- Ruben :

not all Chosen or Election is a Chosen or Election to peseverance --Ruben

Brother, This Blog is about "Being Sealed with the Holy Spirit of Promise" which is an Election that shall Persevere unto the Redemption of Salvation... and it may be hard for you to grasp but no one could receive God's Seal of Promise until after Christ was Resurrected !!!

Grace Unto You Both & Peace Be Multiplied
---Shawn.M.T on 4/15/10


-- Miche :

Sister, I reiterate : I do not stand for the views of MarkV, nor yourself or for that matter, the doctrinal views of any man. I stand steadfast in sharing just the Word of God, for His Glory ONLY !!

Miche, All that Blah Blah Blah was Condescendingly Harsh & unnecessary... Learn to shake the dust off your feet from the house of previous Blogs, and find your 'Peace' again before entering another Blog site.... b/c until you do so you'll always be tossed too and fro like a little child carried about by the wind of every man's doctrine, do to being less concerned with listening for the Truth of God's Word being shared, and more concerned with to whose doctrine it caters.

Grace To You & Peace Be Multiplied
---ShawnM.T. on 4/15/10


Shawn,

Markv believes that he can't resist God. We don't have a choice. He believes God chose who would be saved and who would not from the beginning so, the rest of man is cut out no matter how much we pray, God has already decided, nothing we can do or say about it. NO matter what Jesus did on the cross, he doesn't believe in "WHOSOEVER WILL" He believes God forces us to believe. I am NOT saying I would ever turn my back on God, Shawn. I'm saying its possible. Anytime you can do those things.
God does not want forced Love, Shawn. He is looking for those who will love him willingly, do what he says willingly, believe willingly. NOT forced as Markv Believes. You need to stand up for the truth and STOP catering to his lies.
---miche3754 on 4/15/10


1Jhn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Phl 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:
2Cor 1:21-22 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, [is] God, Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
2Tim 2:19a Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his.
---MIchael on 4/15/10


Shawn.M.T.* Ruben :

Brother, Judas was Chosen by Jesus b/c He knew he would betray Him & become the catalyst to God's Plan to get Him on the Cross....

You can be given by the Father to Jesus at one time and yet not be given to stay with Jesus. Or not all Chosen or Election is a Chosen or Election to peseverance!

Shawn.M.T.* Judas nor anyone else was Sealed b/c Christ had yet to be Resurrected, so Judas didn't break God's Seal,

What about Lazares who he raised from the dead by Jesus or the young ruler who Jesus ask to keep his commandments to have life. The ruler lack one thing and he could not do it, but if he did he would have treasure already in Heaven!
---Ruben on 4/15/10




Mark 13:22
1Tim.4
2Tim.3
Rev.2
1 John 2:24: Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
1 John 2:28: And now, little children, abide in him, that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
Because that which should abide in us is not automatic (we are called to let it abide), even as we are also called to abide in Him , if we let not and abide not, we are a prime target to seducing spirits which lead to separation and ensuing apostacy.
---Nana on 4/15/10


No it was not harsh.
Do you correct him when he calls me names and calls me a liar?
All that BLAH BLAH is what comes out of his mouth and I am tired of hearing his lies.
And I am tired of YOU covering and backing them.
Either you are a man of God and stand for the truth of Gods word, or you are for the enemy.
You cannot compromise the word of God.
You will correct me all day long but say nothing to his lies?!
That is fine with me, I KNOW I AM SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT!
AND I know that God allows who ever will believe to come to him. HE DOES NOT SAVE ONE BUT DENY THE OTHER LIKE MARKV BELIEVES.
---miche3754 on 4/15/10


Why in this world do you say "Blah, Blah, Blah"? Isn't it a wonderful thing that we have the SEAL OF THE HOL Y SPIRIT? What more could you possibly want? Is it too hard to believe? Isn't God beyond description? Yes, He does love us and has sealed HIS babies and WILL NOT LET them go. He does love us more than I can explain!!! Don't keep questioning HIS love but just accept it and understand that He loves all who He has chosen.:) His Sheep know His voice and that they are HIS>
---jody on 4/14/10


-- Miche :

Sister, That was HARSH !!! You could've just easily only said I believe all of those things MarkV, without all the 'Condescending' BLAH BLAH BLAH, and still got your point across.

Miche, We're not sharing that we're forced to stay with God as robots. We're proclaiming the Truth that the Hearts of God's Children are persuaded that neither death, life, principalities, nor any other creature, nor things present or things to come, shall be able to separate us from the Love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord... BUT it's unfortunate that when it come to God's Love your proclaiming here on CN that at any time, I can give up, I can let go, I can stop believing & submitting.

Amen~Michael_E~Amen
---Shawn.M.T on 4/14/10


-- Ruben :

Brother, Judas was Chosen by Jesus b/c He knew he would betray Him & become the catalyst to God's Plan to get Him on the Cross.... and at that time Judas nor anyone else was Sealed b/c Christ had yet to be Resurrected, so Judas didn't break God's Seal, as your misconceptions claim, by his own freewill !!!

Don't be so cynical & think that someone is saying anyone was predestined to hell.

Ruben, Everyone who was the True Servant of God, but was unable to receive God's Seal of Promise b/c they died before the Resurrection of Christ, shall receive the Seal of the Living God as proclaimed in Rev.7:2-3 and shall enter into Heaven.....

BTW~Is God's Will, freewill ?? Y or N : I've answered you already.
---Shawn.M.T. on 4/14/10


Jesus Christ Himself told a man whom He had healed and forgiven, "Go and sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you." Furthermore, Jesus told some, "Not everyone who says unto Me, Lord, Lord shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, but he that does the will of My Father which is in Heaven."
---Betty on 4/14/10


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Markv,
I am not saying God can't make man stand.
He does for me because I SUBMIT and TRUST HIM.
I am saying some don't submit to God and ALLOW him to help them stand.
This comes down to a relationship, Markv.
You either trust or you don't, love or you don't.
ENDURE TO THE END. That is what God says, doesn't he?
Trust to the end.
He who puts his hands to the plow and ...LOOKS BACK!.
Those are the ones I am talking about.
We have a choice everyday to remain in and Trust Christ. Remember the parable of the 4 soils.
Until you stop believing God forces you to do something, you will never understand the full LOVING NATURE of GOD and what he really did for us.
---miche3754 on 4/14/10


Miche, how can it be they were the bride and turned away to not be the bride? They either were the Bride defined by Christ or they were not. You cannot have it both ways. They either were or they were not. And if they are define by Christ as His Bride, was He wrong in the way He indentified them? Did He make a mistake? Is He not aware that He is losing His Bride left and right and to whom, but the devil? In fact you are suggesting the devil is defeating the purposes of God. Your logic is nonesense.
God could not make him stand, and Jesus could not sustain him guiltless until the day of the Lord, because satan and he were more powerful then God. Man centered theology, base on the power of man.
---MarkV. on 4/14/10


Shawn.M.T.* Brother, On the contrary : I've never said or implied that "Judas was predestined to hell". That's your misconception and yours alone !!!!

You are right, you didn't use does words.
However what did you mean when you said

Judas was chosen by Jesus, and served his purpose, BUT was never Sealed with the Holy Spirit of Promise.4/12/10.

Does this mean even though he never was seal with the promise, he will be in Heaven?

Shawn.M.T.* BTW ~ I Believe there's God's Will and that which is not God's Will !!!

But do you believe in Free Will? Do we have a Free Will? Y or N
---Ruben on 4/14/10


amazing, how far off the original blogs we get.
The scripture says what it says, but we feel we must add what we have been taught.
Eph. 1:13 says 'In whom ye also trusted(who did you trust? Jesus Christ)after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: (What does Paul call his gospel? 1Cor.15:1-4)in whom (Christ) after that ye believed (What? The Gospel plus Nothing)ye were sealed with what holy Spirit of promise
If we were never sealed it is because we never actually had a Heart Knowledge of what the scripture says.
---michael_e on 4/14/10


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NO, Markv,
Those that walk away WERE part of the bride BUT turned their backs on God!
They were not willing to submit to God's will.
I submit to God's will daily do you?
Do you crucify your flesh and allow God to show through you daily? or do Follow man made doctrine instead of God's word?
Are you living the Bible 100%?
Nope, you are living what Calvin thinks the Bible says, NOT what the Bible says.
Shawn is right you are still on the milk of God's word not meat. If you were you would understand what the definition of submit means. Or that you aren't a robot, or crucifying your flesh.
FAITH + WORKS = ETERNAL SALVATION.
all other equations are false doctrine.
---miche3754 on 4/14/10


Miche, you just said on another blog that,

""I believe that those who are a part of Christ's body as defined by HIM are his Church, HIS Bride."

Now you say that statement is not true because some will not be His Bride after all as defined by Christ. Why do you change your mind every time? The reason is that you are confuse who is the Body of Christ and who is not as define by Christ. Those that walked away could not possibly be the Bride. If they were, they would still be His Bride.
---MarkV. on 4/14/10


Shawn,
Choosing to disobey God IS WALKING AWAY FROM HIM!

Those who are followers of Christ ARE the ones that are the sons of God.
That means we submit to God's will(God doesn't make us submit either. We choose to.)
We allow God to sustain us by trusting HIS will for our lives and lean NOT to our own understanding.
If you are NOT submitting to God's will, then more than likely you aren't his. If you are constantly disobeying God and saying it is okay Christ has it covered, you are NOT God's child.
Be careful of those who say evil is Good and GOOD is evil!
---miche3754 on 4/14/10


Romans 12:2: "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."
Is Paul pleading with 'seals' or the Spirit of God in the brethren? No, he was and is pleading with the spirit of man in Christ and in God, as he says, "is your reasonable service." These thing must be said and reiterated as Peter said, 2 Peter 1:12., and v10, "give diligence to make your calling and election sure", v11, "For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." Shawn and mark teach otherwise.
---Nana on 4/13/10


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-- Ruben :

it seems you do not believe in Free Wiil... Also you are saying Judas was predestined to hell... how can you be sure you are sealed with the Holy Spirit --Ruben

Brother, On the contrary : I've never said or implied that "Judas was predestined to hell". That's your misconception and yours alone !!!!

Ruben, The Spirit itself Beareth Witness with our spirit, that we are the Children of God : and if Children, then Heirs of God and joint-Heirs with Christ, Sealed with His Holy Spirit of Promise which is the earnest of our Inheritance until the Redemption of the Purchased Possession. Rom.8:16-17 & Eph.1:13-14

BTW ~ I Believe there's God's Will and that which is not God's Will !!!
---Shawn.M.T. on 4/14/10


-- Francis :

Adam choose to walk away from God. It happens all the time... --Francis

Brother, Adam "Fell" through disobedience, he didn't choose to walk away from God.

It was by one man's disobedience many were made sinners & "Fell", so by the obedience of one shall many be made Righteous "Raised-Up" unto Glory and shall be holden up: for God is able to make us stand. Rom.4:14,5:19

Francis, This is what happens all the time & is why we who shall be Saved are able to endure to the END !!!
---ShawnM.T. on 4/14/10


---MarkV. on 4/13/10
BLAH BLAH BLAH, what you said in this post... IS WRONG!!
I believe all of those things Markv.

But at any time, I can give up, I can let go, I can stop believing, I can STOP submitting.
That is what I mean.
God does not force us to submit to him Markv, but what do I expect from a man who thinks he is a robot.
You don't understand that God gives us freewill to choose.
I know and trust the Lord, Markv, that is what A RELATIONSHIP IS.
Building trust, NOT forcing anything.
I do what he asks of me and he has proven himself to me, I don't need to be forced to do anything. Its my choice to believe that God did what he did for me.
God doesn't have to do anything else for me.
---miche3754 on 4/14/10


MarkV: I like your analogy of 4/13."He who began a good work in you will complete it even up until the day." I do not believe that a SEAL of GOD can be broken. He will cause it to hold.
---jody on 4/13/10


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Miche, I was not thinking you would agree and say, "you are right, God will sustain us." "Who can separate from the love of God?" No one. I didn't think you would depend on His power at all but on man. You follow the teachings of the RCC that a person can lose his salvation, since he got it on his own anyway, since God does not force or make anyone alive unless he wants to come alive to Christ while spiritually dead. A man centered theology.
You see, your dependence is on man and not God.
---MarkV. on 4/13/10


Brother, You're clouding the simplistic Word of God, "to Follow", with the 'Semantics' of man's wisdom "to Listen" only to bring confusion to the discussion.

To 'Follow' implies "listening".... and to answer your question : His Sheep are the ones really listening !!!
---Shawn.M.T. on 4/13/10


To listen is to be keep following him, and to keep knowing him and to keep hearing him and he keeps giving us Eternal Life. To listen and to follow are present verb and not past tense..That why Jesus says'" Those who endure till the end will be saved", so keep on keeping!
---Ruben on 4/13/10


I have to agree with Ruben on this.
You can fall away.
Of your own choice.
Freedom of choice is shown throughout the whole Bible.
God did not make men as robots.
God keeps us as long as we completely submit to his will.
Submitting to God's will is a choice, not something forced upon us.
As soon as we start trying to do things on our own, we are no longer in God's will and we know that our will is contrary to God's.
---miche3754 on 4/13/10


Miche, again you will not leave this matter in the hands of God but in man. First of all man doesn't do anything to warrant salvation. It is by the Grace of God.
You say,
"Can a "tare" become "wheat"? and can "wheat" become a "tare"?"

Yes a tare can become wheat, only by the Grace of God. A wheat cannot become a tare because he is made to stand by God, and sustain so that he is not lacking in any spiritual gifts as he waits for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will sustain him to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ" 1 Cor. 1:7-9.
---MarkV. on 4/13/10


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Adam was creatsed in the Image of God.
Adam knew no sin.
yet Adam choose to walk away from God.

It happens all the time, people who have received the holy ghost, walk away from god all thetime.

But he who endures to the EDN the same shall be saved.
---francis on 4/13/10


Ruben :


Judas was chosen by Jesus, and served his purpose, BUT was never Sealed with the Holy Spirit of Promise.

---ShawnM.T. on 4/12/10

Correct me if I am wrong, it seems to me that you do not believe in Free Wiil. I truly believe in God's will, but it was Judas and the Prodigal Son free will to leave is the issue! Also you are saying that Judas was predestined to hell, if he was chosen or one of the elect how can you be sure that you are sealed with the Holy Spirit?
---Ruben on 4/13/10


Ruben, if His sheep hear His voice and they follow him, and you say they can walk away and be lost, then they were not His sheep. Because His follow Him. And those that follow Him have eternal life, you say they don't, so you are not listening Ruben. Not able to listen to His Words. He also said all that hear Him and follow Him will never parish. You say they do because in your religion you have to do sacraments and if they fail they go to purgatory where someone else can pay for their sins. Those are not the one's that hear and follow Christ. You can fight me all you want, but you cannot change the Truth of Scripture.
---MarkV. on 4/13/10


I think Shawn you are over simplifying it.

Can a "tare" become "wheat"? and can "wheat" become a "tare"?

Yes to both.
Until we receive our glorified bodies from God, we are still susceptible to the lust of the eyes, of the flesh, and the pride of life.

Which is why we are told and WARNED by Jesus himself and through Paul, we need to watch and be mindful and NOT be deceived.
"there is a way that seems right to a man but that way leads to death".
This is WHY we should be examining our walk everyday. This examining IS allowing Christ to conform us and IS submitting to God's will.
---miche3754 on 4/13/10


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-- Ruben :

Mark you make that scripture verse sound like this: My sheep heard my voice, and I knew them, and they followed me.

So Mark we keep hearing him, knowing and following him ..Who is really listening to him! ---Ruben



Brother, You're clouding the simplistic Word of God, "to Follow", with the 'Semantics' of man's wisdom "to Listen" only to bring confusion to the discussion.

To 'Follow' implies "listening".... and to answer your question : His Sheep are the ones really listening !!!
---Shawn.M.T. on 4/13/10


Yes. If we sin, we grieve & anger the Holy Spirit He will leave unless we repent.
---Betty on 4/13/10


MarkV. * Ruben you listen but do not hear. Jesus answered and said,
I told you, and you do not believe" The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me. But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep," as I said to you, My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never parish, neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand"

Mark you make that scripture verse sound like this:

My sheep heard my voice, and I knew them, and they followed me.

So Mark we keep hearing him, knowing and following him ..Who is really listening to him!
---Ruben on 4/13/10


-- Francis :

Brother, I suggest nothing, but proclaim the Gospel as our Lord & Saviour has done from His own mouth, that "He will Lose Nothing, of all which our Heavenly Father has given Him(b/c it our Father's Will) : but should raise it up again at the Last Day." John 6:39.You should start doing the same !!!

You talk about 'in the latter times some shall depart from the faith', without realizing 1 John 2:18-19 that "if they had been of us(who were to be Saved), they would no doubt have continued with us : but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us... and that these are the Last Times.

BTW~Miche, God's sifting of the Tares, is them walking away !!!
---Shawn.M.T. on 4/13/10


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Ruben you listen but do not hear. Jesus answered and said,
I told you, and you do not believe" The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me. But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep," as I said to you, My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never parish, neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand"
First His sheep hear His voice because they believe, Second they follow Him, they don't leave, Third, Jesus gives them eternal life, and they shall never parish. You say they don't follow and leave, they don't have eternal life and they will parish if they want. Nonesense.
---MarkV. on 4/13/10


BTW~Francis reread Heb.6:4-6 b/c it says "IF THEY SHALL FALL AWAY". Nowhere does it say that ANYONE HAS fallen away.
---ShawnM.T. on 4/12/10

Are we suggesting that no one has ever fallen away?

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils,

Revelation 2:4 Nevertheless I have [somewhat] against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

2 Timothy 4:10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica,
---francis on 4/13/10


I just want to say one thing,

Shawn, you have a misconception about the tares.

The tares are allowed to grow right along with the wheat until Christ comes back.
So, the tare is that person sitting next to you in church pretending to love Christ when really they don't. And God will sift them when he comes back.
So a person walking away from Christ is of their own freewill.
A person remaining with Christ is of their own freewill.
The difference is one loves God more than themselves, the other doesn't.
Remember the 4 different soils.
---miche3754 on 4/13/10


A friend says this as concerns the seal of God.

If God's seal can be broken then obviously God did not have the power to maintain that seal.
---mima on 4/13/10


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-- Nana :

which seal the Father breaks himself when he throws the unfruitful branch away

"Never receiving Christ..."?

There go the babies, the mentally challenged, those who havent come to the faith on account of the crock they have been fed, there goes hope and charity out the window! ---Nana on 4/8/10


Brother, Your about syndicalism is what's empty & void of the Hopes of Faith in God's Charity to keep us Sealed til the Day of Redemption : and it causes you to continuously miss use & not Rightly Divide John 15:2 & Rev.2:4-5 !!!
---Shawn.M.T. on 4/12/10


-- Ruben :

Brother, Our Lord & Saviour would have to be either mistaken about God's True Will or was Unable to Fulfill God's Will from John 6:39, in order for your concept of 'The Prodigal Son' to be True and for Francis & yourself to both be Rightly Dividing God's Word in John 17 & Heb.6 !!!

Judas was chosen by Jesus, and served his purpose, BUT was never Sealed with the Holy Spirit of Promise.

Ruben, It's your 'misconceptions' and yours alone, which have lead you to contradict 'The Very Word Christ Proclaimed about God's Will' which He Knows & Always Perfectly Fulfills.

BTW~Francis reread Heb.6:4-6 b/c it says "IF THEY SHALL FALL AWAY". Nowhere does it say that ANYONE HAS fallen away.
---ShawnM.T. on 4/12/10


Good word Francis, especialy "...they have left their first love...!
Shawn's words, "...which would mean that our Lord & Saviour was either mistaken about what Truly is God's Will or was Unable to Fulfill the Will of our Heavenly Father from John 6:39 !!!", are empty.
For we see our Lord effectually calling the twelve to pledge their allegiance or leave in that He said, "Will ye also go away?", John 6:67. He had elsewhere also said, "For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.", Matthew 6:21. We see that they chose to have their treasure and their heart with Him.
---Nana on 4/12/10


We of our own free will can walk away from God.

Hebrews 6:4-6 we are told that those who were once partakers of the Holy ghost have fallen away

Revelation 2:4 says that they have left thier forst love, and God calls them to repent.

Two important things here:
Hebrews says they were partaers of the Holy Ghost. This menas there were not pretenders (tares) But at one time genuine christians who on thier own fell away.

Revelation 2 says they left Jesus, and Jesus calls then to repent or he will remove his candle.

So surely individauls can of thier own free will choose at anytime to walk away from God.
---francis on 4/12/10


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Ruben, Your misconceptions about 'The Prodigal Son', is causing your thinking to be out of line with God's Word.
---Shawn.M.T on 4/10/10


Of course it is my misconceptions, it can't possibly be ours..lol
---Ruben on 4/12/10


You on the other hand Ruben, wish to proclaim YOU have 'Rightly Dividing' the Lord's Word in John 17:11-12, which would mean that our Lord & Saviour was either mistaken about what Truly is God's Will or was Unable to Fulfill the Will of our Heavenly Father from John 6:39 !!!
---Shawn.M.T on 4/10/10


Shawn

The point I was making is that we can be chosen by Jesus like judas was and out of our 'Own" free will we can leave...
---Ruben on 4/12/10


-- Francis :

mima there have been many people who started out walking with God who turned the other way. God never stopped them --Francis

Brother, While your correct, those there were Tares walking among the Wheat that is God's Children. It's these Tares which shall turned the other ways and have went out from us, but they were not of us, b/c if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us : but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.... and that these are the Last Times. 1 John 2:18-19

Francis, When any of the Wheat that is God's Children 'Backslide', we shall be Holden up : for God is able to make us stand. Rom.14:4
---Shawn.M.T. on 4/12/10


I assume the implication of the blog question is whether one can lose their salvation.

MarkV had a excellent description of what it means to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. MarkV, if you read this, would you repost that definition? it seems to be related as to how one could lose their salvation.

Sealed has the connotation that what is sealed is sealed. Biblically, using the concepts from Revelation, Christ is the only one worthly to break a seal, and He says He won't in this case.
---Rod4Him on 4/12/10


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John 10:28-29 says,
"28-And I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29-My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."
---mima on 4/10/10

Great text, notice it says no one can take you, it does not say that you cannot backslide.

This is between you and God, and God never stops you free will.
---francis on 4/12/10


mima there have been many people who started out walking with God who turned the other way. God never stopped them

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils,

Revelation 2:4 Nevertheless I have [somewhat] against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

2 Timothy 4:10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica, Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.
---francis on 4/12/10


---mima on 4/10/10 you are not depending upon God to hold you you're depending upon your own strength and willpower and thereby falling into works.

I totally agree

A seal must be opened from the outside.
When we are sealed by the HS. that would be the one that could break seal
---michael_e on 4/11/10


francis if your statement,"If you choose on your own to leave, he will not stop you." is true then your willpower or strength is mightier than the hand of God. And you are not depending upon God to hold you you're depending upon your own strength and willpower and thereby falling into works.


John 10:28-29 says,
"28-And I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29-My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."

---mima on 4/10/10


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Hebrews 6:4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened.., and were made PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST.

Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance,..
---francis on 4/9/10


Yes frances, those in the wilderness who say so many of God's miracles, water coming from a rock , manna coming down were enlightened and partook, however that verse does not say INDWELT and sealed with the Hly spirit.

Many can be drawn by the Holy Spirit and REJECT falling short of true and complete salvation. Crossing the Jordan is to us crossing over to the resurrection side of the Cross. Many even now are on the wrong side of Calvary.
---kathr4453 on 4/10/10


-- Ruben :

But Jesus did lose one --Ruben

Brother, Christ Jesus always Perfectly Fulfills the Will of our Heavenly Father, and Christ proclaims that it's "the Father's Will that Christ should Lose Nothing, of all which our Father has given Him : but should raise it up again at the Last Day." John 6:39

You on the other hand Ruben, wish to proclaim YOU have 'Rightly Dividing' the Lord's Word in John 17:11-12, which would mean that our Lord & Saviour was either mistaken about what Truly is God's Will or was Unable to Fulfill the Will of our Heavenly Father from John 6:39 !!!

Ruben, Your misconceptions about 'The Prodigal Son', is causing your thinking to be out of line with God's Word.
---Shawn.M.T on 4/10/10


the question is can this seal be broken?

The answer is yes.
God does not force anyone to come to him, stay with him, or go away from him.

He searches for you and calles you to cme to him.
Once you have come to hm, no one can take you away.

If you choose on your own to leave, he will not stop you, though he will make every effort to get you back to the fold.

He will leave the 99 and search for you to get you back, he will not bring you back by force.

Hebrews 6:4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened.., and were made PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST.

Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance,..
---francis on 4/9/10


Jude 1:5
---more_excellent_way on 4/9/10

I believe you will find your answer to this in Hebrews 3-4.

Yes, Jesus brought all out, but all did not ENTER INTO His Promise, because they did not have faith to ENTER IN. Those who did not ENTER IN, DIED In Their SIN in the wilderness. We're not saved if still in the wilderness...in other words, the Blood of Jesus has been shed for all. however not all will receive by faith the Promise of eternal life of entering his rest. The LAND and their faith and obedience to enter in WAS salvation, and a picture or type of the Gospel preached to us . Christ is OUR LAND and we must ENTER IN a New and Living way Hebrews 10....
---kathr4453 on 4/9/10


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The Eternal Security we find Once Saved is that we'll Aways be Saved b/c it's the Father's Will that Christ Jesus should Lose Nothing, of all which He has given Him :

---Shawn.M.T on 4/8/10

But Jesus did lose one( Holy Father, keep them in thy name, which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are one. While I was with them, I kept them in thy name, which thou hast given me, I have guarded them, and none of them is lost but the son of perdition)JHN 17:11-12 and the podigal son who wanted to leave the "seal" of the Father and those Disciples who walk no more with him. You also have the Lost Coin and the Lost sheep. The difference between them was 3 of the four repented and turn Back to the Father..
---Ruben on 4/9/10


Jude 1:5
"that he who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe".
---more_excellent_way on 4/9/10


The seal is as secure and tight as was the door that closed on the Ark with Noah and family and all. Not a one of them was lost. You will also see GOD sealed/ closed the door.
No one jumped out, God didn't throw anyone out into the storm, and no one accidentally fell out or overboard, and not a single animal was lost either.

The ARK represents Christ and we who are in Him.
---kathr4453 on 4/9/10


I agree with this statement,"Those who were the unfruitful branches were under the Old Covenant of God, and was NEVER SEALED with the Holy Spirit of Promise."
Made by ---ShawnM.T. on 4/9/10.
---mima on 4/9/10


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"can this seal be broken?" No.

It is the Father who seals us, and we "are sealed 'unto the day of redemption', unto the praise of his glory. To the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. 'In Him we have redemption through His blood', the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace". Eph 4:30>1:14>1:6,7
---Josef on 4/9/10


-- Nana :

Never receiving Christ? There go the babies, the mentally challenged, those who haven't come to the faith on account of the crock they have been fed --Nana

Brother, Why the Hopeless syndicalism !!!!

Babies shall receive the Kingdom of God as a little child & enter therein ... and when it comes to the mentally challenged, remember no one comes to Christ but by the Drawing Spirit of God's Word which gives Sight to the blind & Hearing to the deaf. We're not defiled by what has been fed or goes into a us, BUT by what come out of us : Wherefore I give you to understand, no man speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed : and no man can say Jesus is Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 1Cor.12:3
---ShawnM.T. on 4/9/10


-- Nana :

the seal Paul spoke of, which seal the Father breaks himself .... John 15:2 --Nana

Brother, Our Heavenly Father has never broken any of His Seals .... and those who lack the Hopes of Faith in His Charity to keep us Sealed til the Day of Redemption, continue to miss use John 15:2.

Those who were the unfruitful branches were under the Old Covenant of God, and was NEVER SEALED with the Holy Spirit of Promise : verses those Fruitful branches which came from the Old Covenant that are now Sealed until Redemption with the New & Better Covenant of the Holy Spirit of Promise, who shall continue to bear the Fruits of the Spirit of God b/c of the indwelling Holy Spirit, and shall never be taken away.
---ShawnM.T. on 4/9/10


I don't believe the seal can be broken, because the spirit of God isn't going to blasphemize the spirit of God.

shary8757
---shary on 4/8/10


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The seals of Revelation have nothing to do with the seal Paul spoke of, which seal the Father breaks himself when he throws the unfruitful branch away, John 15:2 "Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit."
"Never receiving Christ..."?
There go the babies, the mentally challenged, those who havent come to the faith on account of the crock they have been fed, there goes hope and charity out the window!
---Nana on 4/8/10


-- Lawrence :

Brother, Never receiving Christ, remaining completely separated from God's Holy Ghost is the 'unpardonable sin of Blaspheme against the Holy Ghost' : Applying to everyone who has yet to receive Christ & be Sealed with the Holy Spirit of Promise.

The Eternal Security we find Once Saved is that we'll Aways be Saved b/c it's the Father's Will that Christ Jesus should Lose Nothing, of all which He has given Him : but should raise it up again at the Last Day. John 6:39

...So I reiterate, The 'Lamb of God' is the only 'One' who is Worthy to loose & break "Any Seal" of God's : and He shall not Break this Seal of God's Promise, b/c it's not God's Will !!!!
---Shawn.M.T on 4/8/10


---michael_e on 4/8/10 I loved your answer. How deep it is a do not know but is deep enough to totally be non-understandable by such as Lawrence.
---mima on 4/8/10


Very deep scripture.
Paul's Gospel(1Cor 15:1-4) When you have heard it and TRULY BELIEVE (plus nothing)you are placed (baptized) into the Body Of Christ, by the HS, you are sealed, as a member of His Body.
IF that seal could be broken, a part of the Body Of Christ would be in Hell.
Never happen
---michael_e on 4/8/10


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Sure it can be broken. If you blaspheme the Holy-Ghost which is unpardonable sin & there is No forgiveness from God. You'l be lost forever. SO, this knocks out the False teachings of once saved always saved, eternal security etc.
---Lawrence on 4/7/10


-- Mima :

Brother, The 'Lamb of God' is the only 'One' who is Worthy to loose & break "Any Seal" of God's !!!!
---Shawn.M.T. on 4/7/10


"Truth" is SIMPLE, not complicated.

Ephesians 5:9
"for the fruit of light is found in everything that is good and right and true".

Romans 8:16
"bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God".

There is much more that can be understood/explained about the REAL truth of God, but you can see that WE are the ones who decide/determine whether the seal is genuine/forever (we cannot lose the seal against our will....if it can be "lost" or was ever genuinely accepted).

Satan has no HOLD on a righteous man (satan can only TEMPT, it is OUR decision to give in to temptation or not).

Satan is a pathetic wimp and we need not fear his presence, yet many choose to.
---more_excellent_way on 4/7/10


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