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When Were Angels Created

Did God create angels before, during or after Genesis 1?

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 ---Leon on 4/6/10
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-- Miche :

Sister, I've Rightly Corrected Kathr : When she on 4/12/10 proclaimed the Hidden Mystery in 1Cor.2:7-8 of who was the True Messiah, while Christ walked the earth, was kept secret from even the "Angels".

What Kathr stated is contradictory to the Truth b/c the Angels knew of the Mystery of who Truly was God's Only Begotten Son : and not only told Mary & Joseph but also Joyfully Sang & Herald in the coming Messiah Christ Jesus !!!

Miche, Your misconceptions about what Kathr said are do to you not adhering to James 1:19, and you would've done well to take your own advise, b/c Maybe sometimes it is better to sit back and say nothing. --Miche

Grace Unto You & Peace Be Multiplied
---Shawn.M.T on 4/14/10


She is right, Shawn, None knew but God until God revealed it on a need to know basis.
---miche3754 on 4/13/10


Mark,
//...God Always had a thrown in Heaven and I believe long before man ANGELS worshiped God...//To this I agree.
A condition being restored--mystery of[Why-How and purpose-revealed]...kept secret since the world began,But now is made manifest...to all nations for the obedience of faith.
Rom16:25
God made know His will"at sundry times and in divers manners"-from time to time-for His purpose.
Ex:
Kingdom being rejected-revealed to His disciples[not people]Matt13.
[Duration]of Israel's Blindness-revealed Rom11:25
[foretold]lawlessness...
But-the Secret kept[since]the world began...
Jesus said..It is finished.
In God's time-frame it is.
Jesus[may have]uttered during the course of three hours Ps 22.
---char on 4/13/10


Mark,
cont'
Son of God-Jesus Christ- became Head of a new order of beings-Federal Head.
Is 9:6
For unto us a Child is born,unto us a Son is given,and the government shall be upon His shoulder:and His name shall be called Wonderful,Counselor,the mighty GOD.The everlasting Father,The Prince of Peace.

-Death/Resurrection-The actual Word of God in action...I have sworn by Myself,the Word is gone out of My mouth in righteousness,and shall not return,That unto Me every knee shall bow,every tongue shall swear...
Is48:23
"an act of God for the purpose of new beginning of restoration.
I'm going out of town-two days-love to converse-Respectably-I'll look for check and balance when I return- [appreciated]-Thanks brother.
---char on 4/13/10


Shawn,

I am not arguing with you at all.
Just stop always trying to be "right".

I didn't assume anything either.

Your argument with her made it sound and seem like you were being fully contradictory to what she was trying to say.

Maybe sometimes it is better to sit back and say nothing.
---miche3754 on 4/13/10




-- Miche :

Sister, You have misconceptions about what Kathr is saying b/c she proclaimed on 4/12/10 that even the Angels didn't know the mystery of Jesus being the Messiah while He walked the earth.

I don't know when God told them. All I know is at some point, before the coming of Christ, God told them. You're the one ASSUMING I meant the Angels knew God's plan from the beginning !!!


--- Kathr :

you are saying God told all the angels even Lucifer they would sin, causing man to sin... --Kathr

Sister, This is all YOUR fabrication !!! I've never said or implied ANYTHING of the sort... and Satan is still only THE PRINCE OF THE POWER OF THE AIR, and is not who 1Cor.2 is speaking about.
---Shawn.M.T on 4/13/10


I would say that each person who was part of Christ coming into this world to save us was told on a need to know basis.
So, no, when God laid the plan for Jesus to come, they didn't know when, where, how or who it would be.
All they knew at the time was Gen 3:15.
Before God spoke that, none knew what or how God was going to conquer and remove sin. BUT He knew and told those only when they needed to know.
The angels probably didn't even understand the very 1st prophecy of Jesus.
God didn't tell until each one's time had come for them to know what to do.
Only God is all knowing and he reveals what he wants to reveal, when he wants to.
---miche3754 on 4/13/10


Shawn, When exactly do you think God told the angels Jesus would die and rise again, before or after Adam sinned? If you are saying the cornerstone was laid (Christ)at the time God laid the foundation of the world, (in the beginning) then you are saying God told all the angels even Lucifer that they would sin, causing man to sin even before they sinned.

Can you PROVE this through Scripture?

No you can't!

Satan is over this WORLD, until the Kingdom of this world becomes the Kingdom of Jesus Christ. Rev 11!! Remember Satan offered Jesus this in His 40 day trial, and Jesus refused KNOWING one day it would all be His.
---kathr4453 on 4/13/10


Char, I have a question for you concerning what you have said, here is what you said,
"Jesus Christ-Son of God-
The Son became a new order of beings-Federal
Head-at the resurrection.
Heb1-2"

By becoming Federal Head, how does that make what Kathr said correct?
In fact, the passage reads,
"God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the father by the prophets" The redemptive plan was known not only by the angels but by the people already. The angels are God's messengers in the unfolding of God's plan.
Can you comment on what you meant? Thanks Char
---MarkV. on 4/13/10


I agree with Miche and Kathr.
I believe there is a reason for this time-frame of Salvation.
Differs from-a time-when all the host of heaven sang glory to God.
My understanding to this is...It was a time-In the Very-Beginning-when things weren't just good but perfect.

Psalm-
Before the mountains were brought forth,Or ever Thou had formed the earth and the world,Even form everlasting to everlasting,[Thou]art GOD.

Jesus Christ-Son of God-
The Son became a new order of beings-Federal
Head-at the resurrection.
Heb1-2
---char on 4/12/10




Shawn,

The Angels did not know God's plan from the beginning.
They knew when God told them. That is what Kath is talking about.
You know when we tell our kids somethings are on a need to know basis. They didn't need to know until God told them they needed to know.

Amen Kath, yes we are.
Everyone makes so much noise about Christ death, they sometimes forget the greater importance of his resurrection.
---miche3754 on 4/13/10


-- Miche :

the angels didn't even know the mystery .. God's plan [to resurrect Christ] --Miche

Sister, Christ told everyone He was to be 'Resurrected'. The Angels knew of the Mystery of who Truly was God's Only Begotten Son : they told Mary & Joseph, and even Joyfully Sang & Herald in the coming Messiah Christ Jesus !!!


--- Kathr :

Satan as the PRINCE of this world WORKED in the hearts of man, ... God has not revealed ALL to Angels. --Kathr

Sister, I'll agree not even the Angels know when Christ shall RETURN, But your confusing Satan as the PRINCE of this world, when he's THE PRINCE OF THE POWER OF THE AIR, and the spirit now working in the children of disobedience Eph.2:2
---Shawn.M.T on 4/12/10


Miche Thank You..wow, we really are on the same page here. Yes, it was His death and resurrection we must not forget.

I believe God ALWAYS had a thrown in Heaven and I believe long before man ANGELS worshiped God.

Job clearly says Angels, sons of God were with God when He laid the foundation of the world. The World was framed by the Word of God who is as we know today Christ.

The Chief Cornerstone is concerning Christ and the Church. Another name for Christ is ROCK, Lamb. However Job 38 was not talking about the doctrine of the Church, but people like ShawnMT or MarkV who were NOT THERE yet seem to think they were and KNOW everything, when they don't. God rebuked those who were presumptuous to speak.

---kathr4453 on 4/12/10


ShawnMT, you're saying if MAN had known, then God's plan would have been thwarted?

The Princes of this words include the Prince and power of this WORLD who is Satan.

John 14:30
Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.



Satan as the PRINCE of this world WORKED in the hearts of man, not realizing his own doom in the process. AND, God has not revealed ALL to Angels.

1 Peter 1:12
Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven, which things the angels desire to look into
---kathr4453 on 4/12/10


However MarkV, even that mystery was KEPT Secret from even the Angels INCLUDINS Satan.. 1st Corinthians 2 make that clear!!! It was through Jesus DEATH Satan was defeated.
---kathr4453 on 4/12/10

Amen Kath.
It was through Jesus resurrection that he was defeated.

And the angels didn't even know God's plan. None knew but God.

I agree Shawn, but I think you a little hard on Kath because she is right, the angels didn't even know the mystery. None knew but God.

Blog question, I believe angels witnessed the creation of the universe as we know it.
---miche3754 on 4/12/10


-- Kathr :

that mystery was KEPT Secret from even the Angels INCLUDING Satan. 1st Cor.2 make that clear --Kathr

Sister, 1Cor.2:7-8 states "We speak the Wisdom of God in a Mystery, even the Hidden Wisdom, which God Ordained before the world unto our Glory : Which none of the princes of this world knew for had they known it, they would not have Crucified the Lord of Glory."

The 'princes of this world' isn't implying Angels nor even fallen angels, but the natural man's heart which is of the spirit of this world !!! 1Cor.2:9-14

Kathr, Our Lord wasn't Crucified by Satan, but by men who God had not revealed His Hidden Wisdom to b/c had they known it, they would not have Crucified Christ.
---Shawn.M.T on 4/12/10


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can speculate too and say that in Job 38 the Father had instructed the Son to be a sacrifice for sin before man was even created, and knew ahead of time that when Jesus was to be born the host of heaven would sing, because Jesus is the Cornerstone He was talking about in Job 38, and not your intepretation, then I am right and you are wrong. It's only speculation.
---MarkV. on 4/11/10


However MarkV, even that mystery was KEPT Secret from even the Angels INCLUDINS Satan.. 1st Corinthians 2 make that clear!!! It was through Jesus DEATH Satan was defeated.
---kathr4453 on 4/12/10


Leon, I am prepared to understand anything that is Truth. That is our goal. But be reasonable here and look at the evidence that God provides. And I know some are on a higher level then others, that is for sure. And I know God reveals to some what He doesn't reveal to others. And I know some have been studying for years because they came to the Lord a long time ago. I have no problem with any of that.
I think there are differences because of the absence of conclusive information. All of us are dealing with some missing links and we're trying to fill in the gaps. You see, we don't fully know the mind of God and we say, "Well, the best way I see it, it's here and it's this way" and later find out its not that way at all.
---MarkV. on 4/11/10


leon,different levels,????? whats pertinent?what matters is do you love God,/ DO YOU FOLLOW JESUS? do you bare fruit?not when did time start,or when were angels created,those 2 questions alone have no spiritual meaning AT ALL.
---tom2 on 4/11/10


Mark & Tom: Guys! I really don't want to argue with you. It's a fruitless endeavor. I'm not trying to convince either of you of anything you're not yet prepared to understand & believe.

I posed this blog question for the benefit of the overall CN blog community. Not everyone can understand a question like this (not because of a lack of intelligence, but) because we're all on different levels in our Christian walk.

Apparently, this isn't a question for you guys because you're having great difficulty getting a handle on its intent & importance. So, I won't further discuss it with either of you because of the adverse affect it has upon you.

Peace! God bless!!! :)
---Leon on 4/11/10


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leon,apparently you dont know what jesus said,dont worry about what you wear,or what you eat,much more major issues then creation dates of andels,and several other of your questions,wouldn,t you say?then he went on to say seek ye first the kingdom of God and all these things will be added unto you.oh yea after I get to heaven my first question to jesus will be when were angels made?OH YEA
---tom2 on 4/11/10


leon,to answer your question yes I do know whats important,and I know what should be important to all people,and it aint when angels were made,or how long a day is.its loving God,and everyone else,and following christ FULLY
---tom2 on 4/11/10


Leon, there is none so blind then those who speculate for that is what you are doing. You have not proofed anything so far. When you show that Angels were mentioned being created at any time before Gen. 1:31 then you will be right. And If God said "Everything indeed was good" and you say it was not, because satan had already sin, then you are really wrong.
I can speculate too and say that in Job 38 the Father had instructed the Son to be a sacrifice for sin before man was even created, and knew ahead of time that when Jesus was to be born the host of heaven would sing, because Jesus is the Cornerstone He was talking about in Job 38, and not your intepretation, then I am right and you are wrong. It's only speculation.
---MarkV. on 4/11/10


*Gen 1:1a In the beginning God created
*Col 1:16a For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible
Pro 8:29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
Job 38:6-8 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof, When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Gen 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry [land] appear: and it was so.
--God created angels between Gen 1:1 and 1:9
probably when He created light.
*see also John 1:1-3
---MIchael on 4/10/10


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Despite what Job 38 says Mark, you insist on being wrongheaded in this matter. You, of course, can think however you choose even though your woefully wrong.

There's none so blind as he who will not see. :) No mas -- peace!

---Leon on 4/10/10


Tom: You really didn't have to wag your tongue at this blog if you think it's unimportant. You could've politely moved on without a peep. :) There are a few hundred other CN blogs for you to choose from & address what you feel are the important issues. Don't be so self-righteous as if you know what's important or unimportant to others.
---Leon on 4/10/10


so many unimportant questions,the real question is how is your relationship with God?are you submitting to his will in your life?are you spreading the good news?are you letting your light shine? or is your life a stumbling block?so many questions looking for answers that have no truth in them,no meaning,no relevance.no wonder scripture calls men LOST.
---tom2 on 4/10/10


Remember though, the earth was created for MAN to inhabit,and have dominion over not angels.

Angels do not need earth for food, light, water, etc.
---kathr4453 on 4/10/10


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Leon, the making of angels before Gen 1, is a complete speculative interpretation. You want it to be so, so bad, but it is only speculation. No where is it clear that angels were formed before the foundation of the earth. No where does it state in an explicit statement that the angels sinned before Gen 1:31. If "Everything that He made, and indeed very good" was a complete lie if he made the angels and they had sinned. Just not possible for God to be wrong. You can change and move and jump up and down and you cannot make what was pronounce very good by God, Bad. Just not possible.
---MarkV. on 4/10/10


Donna: The answer is in G1 & 2 by the conspicious absense of angels not being mentioned during the creation of the heavens & earth (our solar system). God answers the question in Job 38. He says the morning stars (angels) were already created, sang & praised God as He laid the foundations of the earth (G1 & 2).

Shawn: You can speculate all you want, but you're all wrong & what the Bible says is all true. You've completely jumped off the context track. Its true, Jesus made all things (John 1:3). But God, in Job 38:6, is talking about the "corner stone" of the earth. Jesus is the Chief corner stone of His church (Eph. 2:20, 1 Pt. 2:6). That's a major difference.
---Leon on 4/10/10


Mark: The world is also the earth. You're trying to join at the hip two totally different creations. The making of angels, before G1, has nothing to do with the creation of the heavens & earth (our solar system). Job 38:7 says the "already created angels" saw the entire G1 & 2 creation by God. It is this creation God, in G1:31, called "very good". Again, it had nothing to do with God's prior creation of angels, Lucifer's "very bad" rebellion, his fall & the 1/3 angels who followed him.

Regarding my directness with Shawn: I'm not mad at or hate him (or anyone else for that matter). :) I care about him enough to be straightforward & truthful.

Context -- please! (Jn. 8:32)
---Leon on 4/10/10


Leon, there's no argument to be found in what I've said. Would it matter if God in Job was talking about the foundation of the world? Lets suppose there were angels already, even if there was, at the end of Gen. 1:31 "Everything was very good" It could not have been very good if the angels had fallen already. So the fall had to happen after 1:31, and before 3:1.
Again, the phrase used on Job 38 is talking of the Lord Jesus Christ. Isa. 8:6 also speaks "For unto us a Child is born"
If my information is not good enough for you that is ok. I was just answering you because of how you answered Shawn T. I didn't understand why, because I have listened to you before and you have been great in answering others.
---MarkV. on 4/9/10


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Satan and his angels were not ejected from earth until after the woman had her child.
Figure out who the woman and the child is and you will have your answer for the angelic fall.
---MIchael on 4/9/10


the laying of this Corner Stone was the arrival of Christ Jesus for which the Angels sang & Praised the Lord our God, NOT when God laid the Foundations of the earth.

---Shawn.M.T on 4/9/10

But ShawnMT, Certainly God spoke to Job long before the Arrival of Jesus Christ.

Do you thing God is schitzophranic? Talking about laying the foundation of the earth and the arrival of Jesus all in the same breath?

Really Shawn, you all will come up with anything to make scripture say what it doesn't. Scripture tells us the Angels were not privy to all concerning Christ. The world was framed by the Word of God...Hebrews The Word had not become FLESH at that time that the Angels would sing and clap for joy!!!!!!
---kathr4453 on 4/9/10


-- Leon :

Job 38 shows us eternity past, at the beginning. There God says the already created angels sang & praised Him as He created the earth --Leon

Brother, While Job 38:4 does ask Where wast thou when I laid the Foundations of the earth?, Job 38:6-7 is revealing "Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? OR who laid the Corner Stone thereof : When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy" ... the laying of this Corner Stone was the arrival of Christ Jesus for which the Angels sang & Praised the Lord our God, NOT when God laid the Foundations of the earth.

Leon, You've moved from speculation of God's Word, to falsely presenting it !!!
---Shawn.M.T on 4/9/10


Mark: Job 38 shows us eternity past, at "the beginning" of G1. There God says the already created angels (morning stars) sang & praised Him as He created the heavens & earth (our solar system).

Satan's rebellion in heaven (where God's throne is) obviously wasn't "good". It had dire consequences for him & the angels who followed him. The 1st time we see the banished, fallen angel in the form of a serpent in G3.

Whoa! I'm not calling God a liar. But, for some reason you & others are convinced ALL things shown in the Bible happened "in time" as we know it. You seem to think our earth, etc., is the center of God's universal creations. Such thinking limits who Creator God really is. :)
---Leon on 4/9/10


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Leon, no it could not. We are told on Gen. 1:31 is clear that God saw everything was very good, so the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Satan's fall could not have happened yet. Otherwise God is lying. Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. No fall of angels or anything mentioned that Satan had fallen otherwise not all things would have been good. The fall of Satan has to have happened after 1:31 to 3:1. No exact time is given so we do not speculate and say, 100 years or more, only that it happened between 1:31 and 3:1.
---MarkV. on 4/9/10


It's true man was created lower than the Angels, Hebrews 2 and that Christ being foreordained to bring US into GLORY, became lower than angels to bring us UP with Him above Angels and was God's plan all along. This being why Satan hates humanity, because we replaced Him POSITIONALLY. If we, the Church are seated with Christ in heavenly places, Begotten SONS through Jesus Christ,not created sons being angels, and the Church as well going to JUDGE angels in the end, there's more here than we all know, yet scripture give glimpses.

Job 38 CLEARLY tell us Angels were WITH GOD when he laid the foundation of the earth. They the created sons of God..aka angels already Existed while He was laying the foundation!!!!
---kathr4453 on 4/8/10


Mark: Nothing anyone says on these blogs upsets me because I realize everyone are at different levels of Bible understanding.

I'm equally surprised with your answer. Why do you think Satan's rebellion "had to" occur after G1:31? Couldn't it have occured before G1? :)
---Leon on 4/8/10


Leon, man cannot know or fathom about what or when God created because we weren't there when he created them. Amen?

I'm like the blind man, "I only know one thing, I was blind but now I see."

Isn't that enough for you to know?

Who was there when God created angels? Were you? I know I wasn't, so how would or could man answer this question?
---Donna5535 on 4/8/10


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-- Leon :

... until you're willing to ..start believing Bible facts. -- Leon

Brother, Please 'Cut & Paste', instead of just making accusation, as to whatever it is you're claiming to be my 'self-willed blind speculation' : b/c while you have yet to state any Biblical fact that Angels were created before Gen.1:1, I've shared only the accurate Word of God.

FYI~It's very peculiar how your agenda wishes to think & exclude Angels from what "ALL the Host of Heaven" applies to in Gen.2:1 ...Hmmm Maybe b/c it allows you to continue to speculate !!!

Leon, Why do you presume Angels had to be created before Gen.1:1 to gain prior knowledge of God, when it was gained from Gen.2:1 on... ?
---ShawnM.T. on 4/8/10


Leon, I am surprise with your answer. Not really knowing why you would respond as you did. Of course you can do that if you want, not saying you cannot. Shawn's answer upset you when he said you wanted to speculate. I believe he is correct, since the rebellion of Satan had to occure some time after Gen. 1:31 (when everything in creation was good), but before Gen. 3:1 (Eze.28: 11-15). No exact time is mentioned, but it had to be between that time. Anything other then what Scripture mentions is speculation and outside of God's Word.
---MarkV. on 4/8/10


Being forordained does not mean Satan had already fallen, what it does mean is, that when something does happen, and it did, Satan fall and with it the fall of man, Christ was already going to be the sacrifice for that sin after God cursed man. God did not make provisions for salvation because He saw what happen in Eden, He already knew before the foundation of the World that man would sin and fall. Nothing or no one take God by surprise, for it's His plan after all, not anyone else's. Everything is in the order that God has ordain to come to pass. If any atom, or person is outside His sight, then that atom or person is more powerful then God.
---MarkV. on 4/8/10


1 Peter 1:20
Who (Jesus Christ) verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you..

Now, we know before the foundation of the world Jesus Christ was foreordained to die and rise again.

God's PLAN for the NEW Creation, the one coming AFTER this one was already foreordained! WHY, because SIN through Satans_Lucifers fall had already entered the universe, God knowing it would enter mankind.

If that were not so, then what hope do you have that the New Creation with the New Heaven and Earth will not also be corrupted, if the first was absolutely perfect to begin with the first time became corrupted.




---kathr4453 on 4/8/10


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Shawn: Your circular arguments have made you very dizzy. I can't help you there until you're willing to stop spinning & start believing Bible facts.

Again, G2:1 speaks of ALL of God's creation from G1 forward. The G2:1 word "host" doesn't imply nor mean host of angels. Your angel-theory is far removed from what the actually Bible says.

I definitely want accurate Bible answers, but you (so far) haven't given any. Instead, what "you" say is most assuredly self-willed blind speculation.

For those of you who think I'm being unloving here, I have a word. NO! I'm being straightforward. Jesus was straightforward & lovingly nipped nonsense in the bud. :)
---Leon on 4/8/10


As I pointed out in the little Panda joke ,words can and do have double meanings!
---1stcliff on 4/8/10


-- Leon :

In the early chapters of Genesis... --Leon on 4/7/10

Brother, Gen.3 is of course AFTER Gen.2:1, when ALL the Host of Heaven was finished !! You didn't want the "Accurate "Bible answers", you wanted to 'Speculate' & think outside of God's Word... CAN'T HELP YOU THERE !!!


--- 1st Cliff :

Boredom must have been overwhelming! --1st Cliff

Brother, To be able to standing around in the GLORY of God's Light will never be described by His Children as 'an Overwhelming Boredom' !!!

The only overwhelming boring thing is your continuous misuse of God's Word. Jesus in John 5:16-17, spoke in reference to our Father's Work after Creation : NOT BEFORE.
---Shawn.M.T. on 4/7/10


Cluny, that's possible. I'm not a Hebrew scholar. I just looked them up in the concordance. My language specialty is German! :-)
---ger.toshav on 4/7/10


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Thinking in the context of Job 38, That's all I need to believe Angels existed with God before Genesis 1.

Everything else is speculation and can be argued forever.

When the NEW Heaven and Earth are here, NOTHING evil will be able to enter in. Satan did enter the Garden. Satan was jealous of man right from the beginning, and wanted to destroy mankind from the beginning!

John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
---kathr4453 on 4/7/10


I wonder if Pandas were created on day 6??
because I find this a little strange,
A Panda walked into a cafe' and ordered a meal, he promptly ate it and paid the bill,just before leaving he pulled out a gun and started shooting. The manager said "why the gun play?" Panda says "just being a Panda... look it up"
Sure enough the dictionary says ..Panda=eats,shoots and eaves!
---1st_cliff on 4/7/10


Shawn MT: You share with all the other fundamentalists the notion that God and Jesus were standing around in emty space for eons 'till they decided to create something!

Boredom must have been overwhelming! No!

Jesus said "my Father is ALWAYS at His work 'till this very day and I keep working"(Jn.5 17 )
So before creation of earth and it's environs...He/they worked at what???
---1st_cliff on 4/7/10


"...when [do] you believe the Host of Angels in Heaven were created??" Shawn, 4/7

"Without presumptions"? Aight!!! In the early chapters of Genesis, the only creature in the Bible that expressed a prior knowledge of God was the lying serpent who, later on in Scripture, is identified as the devil/Satan/Lucifer the fallen archangel. (G3)

Thinking way outside of the box, I believe angels were created in infinity/eternity eons before Genesis 1:1.
---Leon on 4/7/10


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\\There are three words in the Hebrew scriptures translated Host, Tesba'ah meaning Army, Cheyl meaning Army, and Machaneh meaning Encampment.
---ger.toshav on 4/7/10\\

Is Sabaoth a phonetic variant or inflection of Tesba'ah?

Looks to me like it might be.
---Cluny on 4/7/10


The only way we know this answer is by scripture. Job 38 tells us the angels were WITH God when God laid the foundation of the earth.


Job 38:4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof,

7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
---kathr4453 on 4/7/10


There are three words in the Hebrew scriptures translated Host, Tesba'ah meaning Army, Cheyl meaning Army, and Machaneh meaning Encampment.
---ger.toshav on 4/7/10


-- Leon :

Your out of context "pretext" assumes host means "Host of Angels". --Leon

Brother, YOUR presumption of the 'pretext' "ALL THE HOST OF THEM" in Gen.2:1 is that it only applies to just what was mentioned, but I reiterate : A lot of things were not specifically mentioned.

'All the Host of Them' means ALL/everything in Heaven & earth, which including Angels, and we know this to be True b/c in the beginning there was nothing else with God but the Word & the Word was God. Everything else in Creation followed afterward in Genesis 1 !!!



Leon, Please share, without any presumptions, when you believe the Host of Angels in Heaven where Created ??
---Shawn.M.T on 4/7/10


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Shawne...: "Host" does mean persons & things, i.e., light, sea & land creatures, plant life, mankind, heavenly bodies (planets & stars). In "context", G2:1 is speaking of ALL of creation covered from G1 thru G2:1. In "context" there's no mention of angels. Your out of context "pretext" assumes host means "Host of Angels". Not so! :)
---Leon on 4/7/10


Elder, I'm not sure what you mean about worshiping around a strange fire. Can you explain?
---ger.toshav on 4/7/10


\\Their creation probably couldn't be measured by something we call "time" anyway.
What does time mean to celestial bodies?
---larry on 4/6/10\\

Well, angels, being created are limited to space, as only God is omnipresent.

And, therefore it would seem, time as well (if Einstein is right).
---Cluny on 4/7/10


\\Next the Talmud has nothing to offer me or any truth seeker that we don't already have in the proclaimed Written Word of God.\\

There will be historical goodies in it and references to cultural practices of the time of its compilation.

There are also details of the Temple rites that the Bible omits because they were familiar to its immediate readers--the same rites that so captivate the imagination of evangelicals.
---Cluny on 4/7/10


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-- Leon :

Accurate "Bible answers" to this question will hopefully do permanent damage to the ignorance of uninformed bloggers. Some think angels were created during the first six days of the Genesis 1 account. I don't believe that b/c G1 meticulously describes everything that was made by God at that time & angels aren't mentioned. --Leon on 4/6/10


Brother, A lot of things were not specifically mentioned : but we know All things were made by God during Creation and without Him was not any thing made that was made. So, The Host of Angels in Heaven were Created when everything else was Created in Genesis !!!

Thus the Heavens and the Earth were finished, and all the HOST of them. Gen.2:1
---ShawnM.T. on 4/7/10


Genesis 1 describes the creation of the physical, visible universe.

Presumably angels were created before then.
---Cluny on 4/6/10

Once again Cluny thank you.

And ger.toshav you are so right that it doesn't really matter. Its not necessary to fulfill the great commision. Its not necessary for obediance. Its not necessary for praise.

Their creation probably couldn't be measured by something we call "time" anyway.
What does time mean to celestial bodies?
---larry on 4/6/10


"Elder & Leon, I didn't dream that up. It's in the Talmud. It was just a thought. If y'all think it refers to the Trinity, I have no objection."
ger.toshav
Since there are so many unlearned people that come to ChristiaNet seeking answers I had to respond like I did to you.
Next the Talmud has nothing to offer me or any truth seeker that we don't already have in the proclaimed Written Word of God.
The Word of God as revealed to us makes common sence to anyone who will search out its truth. Why do we need to go to cultic books or strange refeerences.
Worshipping around strange fire will get you burnt.
---Elder on 4/6/10


The angels were created during Gen 1, just as camels, planets, clay, crows, maples and anything else not specifically mentioned in Gen 1.
---Michael on 4/6/10


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Elder & Leon, I didn't dream that up. It's in the Talmud. It was just a thought. If y'all think it refers to the Trinity, I have no objection.
---ger.toshav on 4/6/10


Can't say WHEN angels were created. Few reasons why "ALL" of them were created.

1)ALL ANGELS act as servants for the Sons & Daughters of God.
"Are they not "ALL" ministering spirits sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?" Hebrews 1:14

2)ALL ANGELS are a source of Reliable, accurate, sure messages from God.
"If the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompense of reward" Hebrews2:2, also see Luke1:19

"Bless the LORD ye his angels THAT DO his commandments." Psalm 103:20

Angels are our Guard examples. SeeGen 1:24
---Legends on 4/6/10


Yes Leon it does matter: We know from scripture that God has at least 100 million Angels, I don't believe they're just
"Poster Boys". One Angel in one night killed 185,000 armed men, God uses these beings to do His bidding! They are a formitable force as the bible describes that Michael (Arc Angel)and his angels , they obviously have "rank", faught against satan and "his" angels! some battle...a little like "star wars" !Obviously created long before our earth and Adam!
---1st_cliff on 4/6/10


"When God said, "Let us make man in our image" he was speaking with the angels. They and God are who the "us" are in that passage.
ger.toshav
Wow! What confusion. When did any angel create anything? Hint: NEVER! Humm.... the created beings creating... almost funny if it wasn't so off base.
---Elder on 4/6/10


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Ger.': So, you're saying angels (created being themselves) had an active part in the creation of man & we weren't only made in God's image, but also in the image of angels? Surely you jest? I admit that's a new twist the likes of which I've never heard before. However, Genesis 1 doesn't support your fantasy since, again, there is no mention of angels. To the contrary, God the Father was speaking to God the Son & Holy Spirit (the Creator Godhead).
---Leon on 4/6/10


\\Cluny: Does Gen. 1 describe the creation of the whole universe or just a small part of it, like for instance our solar system?\\

There's already a blog dealing with this question.

This one is specifically about angels--or so I thought.
---Cluny on 4/6/10


A completely accurate Biblical answer would never again state there ever existed an angel named Lucifer.
Only two of Heavens' angels are named. Michael/Gabriel.

Lucifer: Latin word NOT found in ANY Hebrew text, means light-bringer, or bright one. Latin word Lucifer is used as MOCKERY against Nebuchadnezzar, the prophecied future king of Babylon because he clamourously HOWLS(halel), shining light on his family tree's HEIGHT.
Fortold Isaiah 14. TREE Judged Daniel4:20-37

Also, Biblical answers wouldn't slander Heaven as the place of rebellion. That would be Earth and it's human messengers!
If messengers rebelled in Heaven, Jesus would never have told us to pray, "Thy will be done on Earth AS IT IS in Heaven."
---Legends on 4/6/10


It "matters" so we can get a clearer, more accurate understanding of what the Bible is really saying to us. (2 Tim. 2:15)

Historically & even in our current technologically enlightened age, people are confused about what angels are & what their role is in God's universe. Accurate "Bible answers" to this question will hopefully do permanent damage to the ignorance of uninformed bloggers, etc.

It matters!!! :)
---Leon on 4/6/10


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When God said, "Let us make man in our image" he was speaking with the angels. They and God are who the "us" are in that passage.
---ger.toshav on 4/6/10


Cluny: Does Gen. 1 describe the creation of the whole universe or just a small part of it, like for instance our solar system?

Some think angels were created during the first six days of the Genesis 1 account. I don't believe that because G1 meticulously describes everything that was made by God at that time & angels aren't mentioned.
Also, it's inconcievable that between day one & six the Archangel Lucifer led an evil rebellion in heaven that led to war causing him & 1/3 of the angels to be defeated & thrown out of heaven. Yet, at the end of the sixth day of creation, God said all was "very good" (G1:31).
---Leon on 4/6/10


Why does it matter when angels were created?
---ger.toshav on 4/6/10


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