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100% Sure Going To Heaven

Are you 100% sure that you are going to heaven and why?

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 ---Moderator on 4/17/10
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Markv---the topic of whether Christ is eternal Son of God or not is what is important
Indeed.
I'd like to hear more about this, as I have never even considered that He could be anything BUT the eternal Son of God. Does anyone but Morman, JW's or maybe "oneness" people believe otherwise? I'd like to read some good reasoned and scriptural arguments on both sides.

I don't want to hear accusations about who has (or hasn't) a love for God...Who am I to doubt the one who says he does. I don't judge peoples' salvation by every little thing they say. I don't CARE who is smarter or more "spiritually mature". I just want to determine the truth.
---Donna66 on 4/22/10


Steven G I do not care that someone speaks bad about me. It's common and it normally comes from those who disagree with me. Lets take your case, you say my teachings are not biblical. When I have answered you I have never answered you about doctrines. It has alway been about what your opinion is about how you hate churches, that they are of the devil, that when you needed help no one help you so now you think they are all bad, that you have prophets who don't speak, but you can hear them, that no body should read other books but the Bible and you in turn send everyone to websites to look for information about the Bible, that the word of God is better without numbers. None of those arguments have anything to do with doctrines.
---MarkV. on 4/22/10


Markv---the topic of whether Christ is eternal Son of God or not is what is important
---Donna66 on 4/22/10


MarkV: "..but because of what you continued to say about me, using my name whenever you wanted to speak negative about me to other people."

I sounds like you are trying to defend your honor. Do you really care what others think about you? What you should care about is defending the Word of God.
---Steveng on 4/22/10


Kathr, you can argue all you want and you can make Christ the Son a created being if you like as does David, but the Son has always existed. He is the Alpha and Omega. The eternal God. Now you have your heretical believes concering Christ and argue any point anyway of what I say, so I leave you peace and you can believe what you want. You make the Son a created being, but He has always been who He is, He is the same yesterday, today and forever. The Father has always been the Father of the Son. If He became the Son, then the Father became the Father when the Son was born. The Messianic prophecy Christ is spoken of as the Child to be born in Bethlehem "whose going forth have been from of old, from everlasting" Micah 5:2.
---MarkV. on 4/22/10




Donna66, the topic of whether Christ is eternal Son of God or not is what is important, because the Truth is attack by all kinds of people. What is incredible is that all this begin because I said "I have a true love for Christ."
You would think any Christian would be glad to hear that about another.
Kathr acts religious, giving a lot of talk and not one passage to confirm all she talked about. And she gives her definition of what begotten means as to her opinion. She is not defending the Truth she wants to argue.
I guess the Father became the Father when Jesus was born. I wonder what He was before the Jesus was born? If He was the Father of the Word then the Word would have to be the Son, in order for Him to be Father?
---MarkV. on 4/22/10


In the same way the 'joint heirs with Christ' who are 'sealed' with holy spirit are 100% sure that they will go to heaven, the 'Great Crowd' of Revelation 7:9, who are not described as 'sealed' or 'joint heirs with Christ', are 100% sure they will enjoy everlasting life on a paradise Earth.

A 'little flock' in heaven (Lu.12:32, John 10:1-15, Rev.7:4) and a 'Great Crowd (Multitude)' on Earth (John 10:16, Rev.7:9).

'New heavens and a new earth... in these righteousness is to dwell.' 2 Pe.3:13.

That there will be righteous ones on Earth at the end of Christ's Millennial reign and that of his 'joint heirs', can be seen from Rev.20:8 where these righteous ones receive the brunt of satan's final attack.
---David8318 on 4/22/10


kath4463-- If your post is addressed to "folks" (Folks Satan can imitate ANYTHING but the Cross.), that's fine.
You don't need to pull markv in. "Folks" get tired of Kath vs markv vs Kath vs Markv
on and on.
---Donna66 on 4/22/10


In response to Mark Eaton- at John 1:1 there is an anarthrous (no article) predicate noun occurring before the verb. This indicates that the 'logos' can be likened to 'a god'.

Thus, a non-trinitarian rendering of John 1:1 will read, 'and the Word was a god'.

The same rule of Greek grammar is used at Acts 28:6 where Paul recovered from a snake bite. People thought Paul was 'a god'. To be consistent, trinitarians should translate this verse to read 'He is God'.

Trinitarians don't break rules of Greek grammar at Acts 28:6 but they do at John 1:1. Why? Obviously to bolster their trinity doctrine.

Both 'the Word' at John 1:1 and Paul at Acts 28:6 are likened to 'a god', conforming to Greek grammar and context.
---David8318 on 4/22/10


MarkV: "Your tactic worked, you got David and Steven G to join you."

Let me make one thing perfectly clear - I don't "join" anyone in today's world that I cannot personally interact with. I don't use concordances or other christian reference books. I don't read any of the plethora of so-called christian books or magazines. I use only the bible as it's own reference. Basically, I don't polute my mind with christian material written by anyone.

I don't join a denominational "church" each having their own traditions, ways of living, and interpretations of the bible. I know that denominational "churches" are a product of Satan - and that's biblical.
---Steveng on 4/22/10




Donna66, MarkV's assurance of him saying he was 100% sure he was going to heaven HAD NO SCRIPTURE or doctrine attached. We're not going to heaven because we FEEL this or that.

Folks Satan can imitate ANYTHING but the Cross.

Just as Paul warned in 2 Timothy 3...re 8Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

Jannes and Jambres did all those same things Moses did....and this is a warning to us.

I KNOW I'm going to heaven because I AM WASHED in the BLOOD Of Christ...and that is the ONLY REASON anyone will go to heaven..Period!!!
---kathr4453 on 4/22/10


David... If you knew God you would know Jesus. For Jesus said: if you have seen me you have seen the Father.
All things were created by Him and for Him.
Great is the mystery of Godliness: God was manifest in the flesh.
---JIM on 4/22/10


Kathr and Markv --- You disagree about a doctrinal difference that has existed for centuries. Debate all you want. But I see no reason to make it PERSONAL.
excerpts from your discussion:

Your answers to me for about a year were not coming from someone who I would consider saved,...Is that the time you thought you were saved but wasn't? and Now you are sure you are?


no one spoke negative about YOU but If you believe, as I do, that believing false doctrine states one is not saved, then you are not saved either... Therefore under THOSE statements alone YOU are not my brother in Christ

Why not confine the discussion to doctrine, comparing scripture with scripture, and just leave the word YOU out of it.
---Donna66 on 4/22/10


'God the Son'...or the misapplication of scriptures such as John 1:1, Hebrews 2 and others, which only speak of 2 individuals.
---David8318 on 4/22/10

Please tell me how YOU can mis-apply these verses and not see God the Son?

John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

John 1:14 "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth".
---Mark_Eaton on 4/22/10


MarkV comments, 'If Christ is not eternal then He cannot be God.' (4/22/10) That's precisely the point. Christ is not eternal, therefore he is not Almighty God.

'Christ' by definition cannot be eternal. MarkV appears still to be unaware of the meaning of 'Christ'. Ignorance breeds intolerance of others views and opinions.

MarkV will spend the rest of his life looking for 'trinity' in the Bible, but he won't find it, neither the Neo-platonic term, 'God the Son'. What he will do is bring up the usual trinitarian spin on scriptural titles such as 'Alpha and Omega', 'First and last', (properly applied to Jehovah God) or the misapplication of scriptures such as John 1:1, Hebrews 2 and others, which only speak of 2 individuals.
---David8318 on 4/22/10


MarkV,

I AM. is the personal name of God of the Old Testament **Exodus 3:13-14.

On several occasions Jesus used I AM. in attesting to His deity. He claimed to be the LORD God, Jehovah, Yahweh.

The greatest of all the names for the Lord Jesus Christ is I AM.

This is why the apostle Paul wrote: God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father Phil 2:9-11. The name that is above all other names is Lord, equivalent to I AM..
---kathr4453 on 4/22/10


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Please Post. Part 2

MarkV, to say that the WORD was in the OT and not referred to at all as the SON int eh OT does NOT say that the WORD is not eternal nor existed in the OT. PLEASE stop twisting that understanding.

For the Word to be a Son before His incarnation must show in some way HOW God had a SON. Did God and the Holy Spirit have a child? NO!!! How did God give birth to a SON before His Incarnation, when it took teh Virgin Mary to bring in the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON? Don't you KNOW what Begotten means. The WORD was NOT begotten before His Incarnation.

Begotten means BIRTHED. Eve said of Cain, I have BEGOTTEN( given birth to) a son.

Remember too a bosom is not a womb!



---kathr4453 on 4/22/10


Kathr, I've made a lot of progress and I owe it all to the Lord Jesus Christ. I thank Him for coming into my life when I was lost and heading to hell. I know who took me in and saved me.
You can go on with your ranting about me, I have no control over any of it. It is what is in your heart, my heart is right with God. You didn't answer the blog question. You were more interested in me and what I was going to say. Your tactic worked, you got David and Steven G to join you.

"Jim," thank you for your words of unity, sometimes they don't work. It takes for the two sides to be ready to unite.
---MarkV. on 4/22/10


This statement by Mark,"I cannot know if someone is truely saved or not" is the opinion of most people saved or lost.
However just last night I was witnessing to a young man(42 years old and raised a Catholic) and after saying a sinner's prayer this young man said,WOW, I cannot believe how I feel to which I answered, now let me prove to you that your saved. The proof I offered him was John 6:37,

"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." Oh I get it he said, and insisted that I give him material to take home to his family!!!!!
---mima on 4/22/10


MarkV, no one spoke negative about YOU. That is where you have a problem. YOU are all about YOU. I spoke against calvinism. ARE YOU John Calvin...no! Therefore, when you can separate yourself from John Calvin, you may make some important proress.

If you believe, as I do, that believing false doctrine states one is not saved, then you are not saved either.

Everyting I have said is about Christ, CALVARY and the CROSS here that YOU scoff at, even our OBEDIENCE. You even stating nothing is expected from a Christian.

Your false doctrine that faith is a WORK is false doctrice too. Therefore under THOSE statements alone YOU are not my brother in Christ.

These I will always point out that you are wrong without apology!!
---kathr4453 on 4/22/10


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kathr, before you answer questions concerning the Trinity, you need to study to be approve concerning the deity of Christ as evangelicals believe. The Son has to be eternal.
Jesus Himself said, "Before Abraham was, I am" John 8:58. It was the Son speaking those words. And who did He say He was? "The I Am." When Christ said those words He was the Son. He was not only claiming to have existed before Abraham, but He was claiming to be the eternal "I AM" If Christ became a Son by means of the incarnation, and was not a Son before that event, then the Father was not a Father of the Lord Jesus before the incarnation. All consensus of the Church claim that Christ has been a Son from eternity.
---MarkV. on 4/22/10


Kathr, let me clear the air on what I believe. Not what you say I believe,
1. No one can see the heart of a person but God. So no, I cannot know if someone is truely saved or not.
2. I can only look at the evidence that comes from the person writing. I said David was not a Christian, because the evidence he gave is that Christ is not eternal. Only cults believe Christ is created.
3. I look at the evidence you gave through the whole year with your terrible remarks to me. At first I took it, later I rebuked them. Your evidence did not show you were my sister in Christ, not because you didn't agree with me, but because of what you continued to say about me, using my name whenever you wanted to speak negative about me to other people.
---MarkV. on 4/22/10


MarkV, The PROBLEM is, cults do not believing that the WORD was with God and the WORD was God who became flesh, and comes from a misconception that the Son was a Son from the beginning, making Him less than God.

The Word who IS God became Flesh, being the ONLY begotten of the Father, at the time Mary Conceived of the Holy Spirit.

You see, the Son did not become the Son AGAIN in the flesh. You place Christ subordinate to God even before His Birth, if you state He was the Son from the beginning. HOW then did He become a Son from the beginning? He couldn't have. If you say so, you are saying there are 3 Gods, not ONE God in three persons.
---kathr4453 on 4/22/10


Kathr 2:
On these blog you question my love for Christ. I didn't know what your motive was again, so I was careful how I answered you. Then you answered me back and told me how you believed you were saved before but was wrong and now you really are. I answered and said I was happy for you and praise God for it. But as I can see by your evidence there has been no change in your attitude. I was right, you did have a motive. All you did was open the door to evil to bring separation between believers, so others like Cluny and David could join in with you. Now we have David who teaches Christ is a created being, and not eternal on your side, well great work. Why didn't you just answer the question yourself?
---MarkV. on 4/22/10


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athiest,you are dead wrong,not about people,about God. he has made it very clear thru his son jesus,that is the ONLY WAY TO HEAVEN.
---tom2 on 4/21/10


Where is proof that there is atheist? How do we know if atheist is real? It seems to me if there was a atheist, he would make himself known.
---Eloy on 4/22/10


Your relationship here on this earth with the "living God" shall determine your eternal destination. I realize that this is not in answering the question, but I have already did that. So, this is more in line of advice.....Love the Lord thy God.
---catherine on 4/22/10


David, Donna66 is correct, you should have just come right out and said, I don't believe in the Trinity but you do." Don't say it is not biblical because I could stay all day giving you passages that He is eternal. He was never created. He is of the same essence as the Father as Cluny had stated. If you do not believe in the Trinity you cannot possibly be Christian, for one of the main essentials of the Christian faith is to believe in the Triune God. All those who don't believe are cults. You must be a Jehovah Witness or a Mormon. If not one of the two you are a renegate Christian. If Christ is not eternal then He cannot be God.
---MarkV. on 4/22/10


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I think what God should do with ALL the un-believers is, when it's their time to die & cross over from this life into the other, they should holler - scream bloody murder so it could be heard All over the hospital where - ever, that their feet are being lowered into the flames of hell. Then they will realize that there is such a place but then it'l be to late.
---Lawrence on 4/22/10


It would seem to me that if there were a god and heaven, that god would be able to clearly communicate his requirements for entry into it.

So god must be a very poor communicator, ---unlikely for one who created everything, or people must be very poor at hearing, ---again an unlikely trait for the focus and purpose of god's creation.

Or, people who believe in god have unclear and different explanations of who goes to heaven and what god wants---as shown here and many other blogs, because god does not exist and there is no heaven or hell.
---atheist on 4/21/10


Ah..finally we find out what steveng and david mean about Markv's posts being "unbiblical"! That's such a broad statement, I don't know why it took so much time to find out to find out specifically what "unbiblical" meant to them.
Now I see. It's a trinitarian thing.

I was the more confused when steveng said "I'm not talking about denominational "church" doctrines,but the bible."
But it IS a "doctrinal" issue. Most Protestant, R. Catholic, and Orthodox hold to a belief in the trinity. Why dismiss such a large body of believers as if they were atypical?.

Why the fancy footwork? Why not just say up front, "I disagree and here is why"?
---Donna66 on 4/21/10


Neither Christ nor Jehovah has ever needed to have faith or to believe.
---MIchael on 4/21/10


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tom2: "the only thing anyone can be 100 percent sure about is God,his just and righteous judgement,his nature,his word,his promises,in others words him."

Today's christians are not 100% sure. They have the knowledge about God, but deny his power. If every christian was 100% sure, we would be witnessing christians performing miracles greater than Jesus on a daily basis. Besides that, christians also know that we must love God and our neighbors, but don't know HOW to apply it everyday.
---Steveng on 4/21/10


You are correct MarkV, evangelicals do not understand scripture. And you do not understand what 'Christ' means, do you?

'Theotetos' at Colossians 2:9 means 'divinity', 'divine nature'. Being truly 'divinity,' or of 'divine nature,' does not make Jesus as the Son of God coequal and coeternal with the Father, any more than the fact that all humans share 'humanity' or 'human nature' makes them coequal or all the same age.

At Colossians 3:1, Christ is said to be 'seated at the right hand of God.' Christ is not God.

Jehovah is 'the Alpha and the Omega' at Re.1:8. If Jesus is the 'Alpha and Omega', how can he also be the Christ?

Trinitarians deny 'the Christ' by referring to Jesus as the 'Alpha and Omega'.
---David8318 on 4/21/10


the only thing anyone can be 100 percent sure about is God,his just and righteous judgement,his nature,his word,his promises,in others words him.
---tom2 on 4/21/10


David, Evangelicals are not on your side David, unless they don't understand Scripture. Christ is eternal believe it or not. There was no time when Christ did not exist. "in Him the whole fulness of deity dwells bodily" (Col. 2:9). Isaiah 9:6 Christ is declared to be not only "Father God" but also "everlasting Father" or, better translated, "Father of eternity" He is the eternal "I AM" Exodus 3:14. Additiona proof of the eternity of Christ is found in statements concerning the eternal promises of God (Eph. 1:4) and the declaration of Christ Himself, "I Am Alpha and Omega" the first and the last (Rev. 1:8). It comes from Scripture.
---MarkV. on 4/21/10


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Donna66 asks to provide evidence that MarkV is contradicting scripture.

MarkV contradicts himself and the scriptures when he says- 'You are not Christian because if you were you would know that Christ is eternal.' (4/21/10)

"Christ is eternal" is a contradiction in terms, and reveals the one saying it does not know what "Christ" (Messiah) means.

If he did, he would realise "Christ" is not eternal.

Mark is unable to provide scripture in support of his assertion that 'Christ is eternal', obviously because this is not a Bible teaching.

Christians believe rightly that Christ (any 'Christ') by definition, has a beginning.
---David8318 on 4/21/10


StevenG -- I've found nothing markv says that is contradicted by the Bible. Please give examples, citing scripture passages, where you see a conflict.
---Donna66 on 4/21/10


Michael is right. Those who receive a 'spirit of adoption' by HS are 'joint heirs with Christ'.

But, the 'great crowd' of Rev.7:9, are shown as distinct from the 144,000 'spirit adopted', 'joint heirs'. (Eph 1:13,14)

The 'great crowd' have a righteous standing before God as seen in verse 14. However, Revelation does not describe the 'great crowd,' who survive the 'great tribulation', as receiving a 'spirit of adoption', or 'sealed' like the 144,000. They are not 'joint heirs with Christ'. In fact, they are not yet worthy of everlasting life on Earth.

They need to continue to be guided by Christ, partaking of 'fountains of waters of life'. They will enjoy this on Earth, during Christ's Millennial Reign. (Re 7:17, 22:1, 2)
---David8318 on 4/21/10


kathr,Donna66,MarkV,Steveng ----We believers are a family, and a family member of God does not tear down or hold grudges against another family member.
Glod bless each and every one of you.
---JIM on 4/21/10


I agree Jim. I found MarkV's remarks unloving, rude, and crude. Not one Biblical comment to making sure we are truly in the faith, as we should all remind one another what our Christian responsibilities are.

According to Markv, anyone who disagrees with HIM is not saved.
---kathr4453 on 4/21/10


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David, Cluny is correct and you are wrong. I believe you are the one teaching heretical views concerning the nature of Christ. Cluny is following the correct doctrines. Jesus is not the first created creature as your teachings go. He is eternal has no beginning. Sabellius, Arius and Eutyche were only a few who attacked the deity of Christ in the early church history, and today we have many like you David who do the same thing. You are not Christian because if you were you would know that Christ is eternal.
---MarkV. on 4/21/10


Steven G, since you say the word of God disagrees with me, can you give one area where it does? Or are you just going to talk? Anyone can do that Steven. You could not find in the word of God that God ordained Saturday as the Sabbath so you say I disagree with you. I do because the day Saturday is not in the Word. Saturday was instituted by man not God. God ordained the Seventh Day but never mention Saturday as Jerry declared. I said if you could find Saturday on there I would tell you you were right and I was wrong. I haven't seen the passage yet.
---MarkV. on 4/21/10


kathr,Donna66,MarkV,Steveng and all other believers......we are all brothers and sisters in Christ. We are all in love with our Lord and Savior Jesus christ, and we should also love each other the same as we love ourselves. Our fellowship with one another should be done with love to the point that we should not tear one another down, but we should build each other up. We believers are a family, and a family member of God does not tear down or hold grudges against another family member.
Glod bless each and every one of you.
---JIM on 4/21/10


When Cluny speaks of Jesus having the 'same divine nature as the Father', (4/18/10) this is Neo-platonism. Cluny, whether he is aware of it or not is a Neo-platonist because it was Plato who gave pagan Greek theologians the ability to worship the God of the Bible, not as 3 god's (as a triad) but as 3 in one- a trinity.

Neo-platonists are taught to view the 'nature' of Jesus using Plato's philosophy of metaphysics, which allows them to reconcile the irreconcilable- to worship God as a 3 in one deity to conform to the 'Shema'- Deut.6:4.

Cluny is simply a mouthpiece for anti-Christ propaganda such as the Hellenic trinity.

Jesus, the 'Son of God', is subject only to his Father (1 Cor.11:3, 15:28).
---David8318 on 4/21/10


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Gal 3:28-29 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Rom 8:14-17 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God...but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs, heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ,
Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:
It looks like everyone who receives Christ will be joint-heirs.
---MIchael on 4/21/10


To highlight the anti-Christ nature of Cluny's teaching, Cluny states for example- 'When... Jesus rose from the dead in His glorified physical body...' (4/18/10)

This contradicts the Apostle Peter's teaching when he said- 'he (Jesus) being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit.' 1 Pe.3:18

Who is bearing 'false witness'- Peter or cluny? Cluny says Jesus was raised 'in His glorified physical body'. Peter and other faithful witnesses believe Jesus was put to death in the flesh, 'but made alive in the spirit'.

Who will you believe? The Apostle Peter- or cluny?

As a man on Earth, Jesus was not God or even in the nature of God but 'flesh', and was made alive 'in the spirit' after his resurrection.
---David8318 on 4/21/10


In response to kathr4453, even a mansion has limitations. Jesus' Father's house has many abodes. Enough to fill 144,000 Kingdom heirs (Rev.7:4, 14:1-4)

The Kingdom true Christians belong to is the 'Kingdom' Jesus spoke of in his model prayer (or Lord's prayer) at Matthew 6:10 where both Heaven and Earth are involved.

2 sheepfolds, 2 destinations. John 10:1-16 and Revelation 7:4-9.

144,000 joint heirs with Christ, bought from among mankind, who will rule as 'Kings and Priest's' with Christ (Rev.5:10, 20:6) over the 'Great Multitude' of 'other sheep' (John 10:16, Rev.7:9) here on a paradise Earth. (Lu.23:43)

Thus fulfilling Jehovah's mandate at Gen.1:28.
---David8318 on 4/21/10


Donna66: "Steveng-- Excuse me for questioning your "God-given gift", but I have read most, if not all, of MarkV's posts. You may disagree with them, but that does not make them biblically "unsound". In fact, his interpretations are commonly accepted by a large segment of Protestant Christians."

It's not me that disagrees with MarkV, it's the Word of God. Have you actually read any of his posts and actually compared what he has said to the bible? I'm not talking about denominational "church" doctrines, but only the bible.
---Steveng on 4/20/10


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Kathr, I'm glad you now feel you are saved. And that the first time you thought you were, you really were not. Your answers to me for about a year were not coming from someone who I would consider saved, the evidence was not there. Is that the time you thought you were saved but wasn't? and Now you are sure you are? I'm glad to hear the good news if that was the case. That is why I was very careful how I answered you in a kind way.
I thank the Lord for all He has done for you, to God be the glory.
Second, I'm very sure of mine. Never doubt, for if you do you stumble.
---MarkV. on 4/20/10


Candice is right to point out that many of faithful mankind will 'inherit the Earth'. Jesus did say so at Matthew 5:5. God does have an eternal purpose for the Earth.
---David8318 on 4/20/10

Well, those who are placing their faith in inheriting the earth are in the WRONG Kingdom and wrong Gospel. The Church is promised a mansion in Heaven.
---kathr4453 on 4/20/10


Jesus Christ said at Luke 12:32 that a 'little flock' would be approved of receiving the Kingdom.

At John 10:1-16, Jesus showed there are 2 sheepfolds. The first (1-15) enter through 'the door' that is Christ, obviously into heaven. Then at 10:16, Jesus said 'I have other sheep', which are not of this (the first) sheepfold of 10:1-15.

2 sheepfolds, with 2 destinations.

Jesus gave further details regarding these 2 sheepfolds at Revelation 7:4-9. After showing 144,000 coming from spiritual Israel, Jesus reveals a Great Crowd at 7:9 which no one can number.

Candice is right to point out that many of faithful mankind will 'inherit the Earth'. Jesus did say so at Matthew 5:5. God does have an eternal purpose for the Earth.
---David8318 on 4/20/10


StevenG, Markv, Jim etc.

You know before I was saved, I mean really saved, I believed with all my heart I was saved...but I wasn't. I could say too I Loved Jesus...however I did not KNOW God my Father.

Then I really got saved, and OH BOY, the things I thought and felt and believed were turned upside down. I found that I loved God my Father and that LOVE was following in the example of Jesus the way He showed us how HE Loved the Father. "Not my will but thine be done" was a whole NEW ballgame. What I said, not a feeling or emotion..but an act of the WILL to obey whatever God asks or requires. Those who are truly Born Again WILL understand what I mean!!!

Did I say what I said in LOVE...You Bet.
---kathr4453 on 4/20/10


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Thank you Jim/Donna66 for your comments. I hope that people understand that we speak for each other because we are all defending the gospel of Jesus Christ. While my faith has been questioned by those who I have answered before and disagreed with, I was not shocked it was.
What they fail to understand that the Word of God tells us to make our salvation sure,
"Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble" 2 Peter 1:10, and he goes on to say that he will not be with them later on,
"Moreover I will be careful to ensure that you always have a reminder of these things after my decease"
---MarkV. on 4/20/10


"Are you 100% sure that you are going to heaven and why?"
"I [have a knowledge of, and pay attention to] whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day."
Yet, "If anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know. But if anyone loves God, this one is known by Him." 2Ti 1:12>1Cr 8:2,3
---josef on 4/20/10


Steveng-- Excuse me for questioning your "God-given gift", but I have read most, if not all, of MarkV's posts. You may disagree with them, but that does not make them biblically "unsound". In fact, his interpretations are commonly accepted by a large segment of Protestant Christians.
---Donna66 on 4/19/10


Steven G, I do not question your faith in Christ or your love for Christ. It is not my relationship with Christ at all, it is yours, just like mine is mine. I love you and answer you with kindness. You also mention that what I write is not biblically sound, but you never said on what.
Next you say that down deep inside I am not 100% sure, and unless God gave your the power to see my heart, there is no way you can know my heart. But I respect your opinion. I couldn't see Kathr's heart so I did not know the motive. I was careful and answered kindly to her.
---MarkV. on 4/19/10


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JIM, you are doing to kathr exactly what kathr is doing to MarkV.

Not to boast, but I have a God-given gift of discerning written matter (and art), taking a difficult subject and re-writing it so the layperson can understand. As a tutor and college instructor (California state certified, if that means anything) for over forty years, I could interpret the writings of the students and know the student well.

If you have read many of MarkV's posts, you'll get the idea that most of what he writes are not biblically sound. Therefore, MarkV might be 100% sure in his mind, but deep down inside he is not 100% sure.
---Steveng on 4/19/10


kathr.....not to upset you here, but why are you questioning MarkV, your fellow brother and my brother in Christ. Are you questioning him because he did not answer how you would. I feel you just had to comment because he did. Because.......
You did not even answer any part of the blog question.
If it was me i would be asking the Lord to forgive my motives.
---JIM on 4/19/10


100% sure..Because Jesus is able to save completley those who come to God through Him.
---JIM on 4/19/10


Kathr, I almost bought into answering you about my love for Christ. I had finish a whole explanation and before I hit send, I stopped and ask myself, why would she want to know? What is her purpose for asking? Why after what she has said to me for the past year, would she be concern about me, wanting to make sure I do have a true love for Christ? Or is she looking for loup holes as she has done before when I answer about how I came to Christ and about my faith? All those things came to mind and I decided to just say,
It is my relationship with Christ. My alone. I have, as a believer made my salvation sure as Scripture declares. I'm happy with the answers. Thank you for your concern.
---MarkV. on 4/19/10


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MarkV, I don't want to upset you here however, anyone can say they have a true love for Jesus. But what does scripture say. If you love me you will OBEY me. Those who love Christ will lay down their life for others. Yes, a REQUIREMENT that manifests itself through the Holy Spirit.

One must understand the definition of LOVE too, I mean LOVE according to scripture. It's NOT a feeling or even an emotion, but manifests itself again through our life. Is it human love or supernatural love? Is it Agape love? A totally selfless love . THIS IS the Holy Spirit in us..

I believe one should say they LOVE GOD our FATHER through Jesus Christ. It's the Love of GOD that has been shed abroad in our hearts through the Holy Spirit. Romans 5
---kathr4453 on 4/19/10


Yes, but ONLY because I asked God over and over until I got an answer.

Many will assume they're going to heaven, but will not make it. The hardest thing Jesus is going to have to do (since dying for our sins) is telling people "I never knew you."

The Holy Spirit revealed to me, "Because you asked, I told you, but many do not ask, they assume they are going."

Ask and it SHALL be given unto you! The way is narrow that leads to life and FEW are those who find it.
---Donna5535 on 4/19/10


Candice, are you trying to say that God lead you to "worship" with these cults? The verses you give are not about what you say. You and your instructors are streching and reaching to come up with what you are trying to say.
You need to realize that if you are Saved by the Blood of Christ, not according to Mormon or JW doctrine for you can't be by them, then you are the Bride of Christ. You are not a tribulation Saint.
You said before that you left the JWs and went with the Mormons. Then you said you left the Mormons and went back to the JWs. I think you are with the JWs now. Am I correct? I hope not.
---Elder on 4/19/10


Elder,
I only back up scripture. Also I associate with who God leads me to, but I'm not Mormon,I pulled my membership to be exact. I believe my "heaven" is Paradise Earth, that is what God showed me. Read revelation 2:7 which links to rev 22:14,gen 2:9,eccl 1:4 Is 11:4,mathew 5:5,Is 66:1, math 6:10, rev 21:1.
*********
all thease verses talk about the Earth & being a part of it.It came from the NKJV Open bible, nothing associated with the Jehovah's Witnesses. This is what God showed me in HIS scripture.
---candice on 4/19/10


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I'm very sure because I have a true love for Jesus Christ who is our Lord and Savior. I'm sure because the Spirit witnesses to my spirit that I'm a child of God.
---MarkV. on 4/19/10


Have you been praying and come to the realization that your spirit is being moved on by the Spirit of God? Have you ever experienced watching day by day as a answer to a prayer is slowly revealed to you. Have you ever been in a conversation(maybe controversial conversation) when you are certain words have crossed your lips that were not generated by your mental capacity.
Have you asked for correction by God anytime anyplace? Are you anxious and very desirous that others might find the salvation that you possess? If so you can be certain of going to heaven.
---mima on 4/19/10


Candice, you say you are not a JW. You fail to say you were. You did study their doctrines. Now you push their fasle teaching again. You left them and went with the Mormons. Who knows what you claim now?
The Church is the Bride of Christ and will be where He is. Those who live on the earth will be those who came out of the Great Tribulation. If you think there is only 144,000 going to heaven you are still confused.
---Elder on 4/18/10


\\Cluny, Rev.314 says Christ was 1st born IE "only begotten" why do you think He would be a different nature?
Are you not the same nature as your father?
I also think Arius was right and stood up to Constantine and his gang of cut-throat anti-Semitics!\\

If you believe that Christ has the same nature as the Father, then Arius, who taught the idea of a different nature, cannot be right.

It's like saying, "I believe that 2 + 2 equals 4, but anyone who says it equals 5 is right."

Obviously, you know nothing about Church history.
---Cluny on 4/18/10


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Jesus promised, and proves he is The Truth.
---Eloy on 4/19/10


1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
---jerry6593 on 4/19/10


Cluny, Rev.314 says Christ was 1st born IE "only begotten" why do you think He would be a different nature?
Are you not the same nature as your father?
I also think Arius was right and stood up to Constantine and his gang of cut-throat anti-Semitics!
Labeling him "heretic",burning his writings and killing his associates,where's the "Christian" principle here???
Manufacturing a term "Homoosius" and calling it truth is "fixing a doctrine" to fit falsehood!
---1st_cliff on 4/18/10


\\I think you'll find JWs believe that Jesus is the "only begotten" Son of God,(2nd class??) \\
'
When Christians say "Jesus is the only begotten Son of God," they mean that in His divine nature, He has the same nature as the Father.

When JFWs say "Jesus is the only begotten Son of God," they mean he is Michael the Archangel, and is created, thus of a different nature from the Father. This is nothing but the heresy of Arianism--and they consider Arius a hero.

When Christians say that Jesus rose from the dead in His glorified physical body, they mean just that.

When JFWs say it, they mean Michael Incarnate rose as a "spirit creature" whose body dissolved into gasses.
---Cluny on 4/18/10


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All I KNOW IS WHAT JESUS TELLS ME. And here it is: "Rest for sure you are mine"! Still, I'll never, ever, take my savation for granted. NOOOOOO. Not until I reach heavens front gates and walk in, hello Jesus. Thank You.
---catherine on 4/18/10


Cluny, If you're going to be a King or Priest. who will you govern? Cockroaches? (they are the only creature that can survive a nuclear blast!)
I think you'll find JWs believe that Jesus is the "only begotten" Son of God,(2nd class??)
Altho I don't subscribe to their belief, you need to get the facts!
BTW Who are the "meek" who inherit the earth? Don't you inherit something when someone else dies??
---1st_cliff on 4/17/10


1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great [is] your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you
Mat 8:11 I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
Jhn 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
2Cor 5:1 we know that if our earthly house of [this] tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
---MIchael on 4/17/10


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