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Is Abortion Always Murder

Abortion Murder in this case? In Mexico a ten year old girl was raped and made pregnant by her stepfather. If she has an abortion, is that murder, is it a sin?

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 ---atheist on 4/20/10
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When you decide to allow a child to have a baby because of an evil what is the lesser evil killing the innocent baby or allowing it to live to go on to be loved by a loving mommy and daddy who can't have children of their own.

THATS MORAL!

It was the same Country that allowed a 8 year old to have the baby from her 15 year old boyfriend she now has two or did by 11 ''it happens''

she ain't gonna die if she has the baby how many times..... So why advocate Killing as a choice? Thats the only choice you can come up with!
---Carla on 4/28/10


Atheist you brought up immorality but duck the question. A 'demand', how so?

I hold no moral ground, being a sinner saved by grace. No one can become Christian unless they accept they are immoral, needing God's forgiveness.

How are you better than Hitler? Remember God's morality is absolute, not like changing, situational human ethics.

We have the choice to kill defenceless unborn children?

We debate with you hoping you will consider the reality of God, and His judgement. We hope to see you come to saving faith in Jesus Christ. We want you to have the freedom we have. We care for you.
---Warwick on 4/28/10


Warwick:"Please define "immoral" and explain why anyone should agree with your opinion of what constitutes immorality."

Why should you demand from me something that you yourself are completely unable to do?

You don't think you hold the 'moral high ground' anymore than me, or anyone else do you? Yes you are better than Hitler and so am I in that regard. But deciding that a little girl or her baby or both should live or die based on real world circumstances that dictate some action should at least be consider rather than just standing by, that you can't do. You don't have the moral backbone to even consider that a choice is there.
---atheist on 4/28/10


Cliff God provided a world which produces more than enough food to feed all people. North Korean's starve because of atheistic governmental policies. It also rejects free shipments of food. This is God's fault?

Many Christian's and Christian organizations work sacrificially to help the suffering.

Consider Irene Gleason who sold her home to finance, the founding of Childcare Kitgum Servants, in war-torn North Uganda. Today 10,000 children are given full day care, schooling, vocational training, medicine and feeding in 5 CKS schools. No costly administration. She continues despite serious hardships, because of her Christian faith and the obvious desperate need she saw.

Cliff what are you doing for the world's suffering?
---Warwick on 4/28/10


Rape is rape, murder is murder. There is nothing in the word of God that states that the murder of innocent soul is permitted, PERIOD so you can argue as the day is long.

Harsh but true. Now for the child to have the baby it isn't going to kill her... is now. But advocating killing the unborn just because.... is acting for God. There are natural occurrences and they are through illness or through an unknown medication completely out of ones hands they are innocent.
shedding innocent blood regardless is Murder!
If a doctor makes a decision right at a crucial moment in a mothers life for either baby or mother I believe that is between him and God.
---Carla on 4/28/10




Warwick, Peter: Our friend 'atheist' derives his 'morality' from two sources: (1) His own personal emotions, and (2) The instincts genetically transmitted to him by his animal ancestors. These are not my ideas, but those derived from his own postings.

As Christians, we believe that morality is absolute, and derived solely from God Himself. 'Atheist' has stated his belief in moral relativism, situational ethics, etc., as demonstrated by this blog question. Thus, as Christians, I think that morality and atheism are mutually exclusive terms, and the 'moral' musings of an atheist should not be taken seriously.
---jerry6593 on 4/28/10


1st cliff: Whatever else we may not like about God's methods (there ARE things I dislke, but I accept this is because my morals are wrong, and God's morals are correct), this is not about hunger, it is a discussion about abortion
---peter on 4/28/10


Warwick, As usual you miss the point, you are so concerned about the fate of the unborn when God doesn't lift a finger to feed the 30,000 a day who perish from hunger!
All he has to do is make it rain in in some parts of the world, so people can feed their families!
Is He even aware? If so how is it manifest?
If He doesn't care whether they live or die,how much less would he care about a fetus??
Organizations set up to feed the hungry have large "administration " costs that eat up most of the money!
I'm not judging God, but neither am I blind!
---1st_cliff on 4/27/10


Warwick: The statistics I have read say that more then one million unborn children are killed each year in the US alone!

Sounds reasonable.....

Try China (it is certainly ten times higher, and the official numbers are certainly an underestimate)

There there is no 'term limit' (ninth month is allowed, as long as the woman is NOT IN LABOUR, and it is used as a method of contraception, generally by people who do not want to use other methods

I've met a woman who had an abortion in the 6th month, just because she broke up with the man who got her pregnant - isn't a baby viable if born in the 6th month?
---Peter3594 on 4/27/10


Atheist: you made the comment 'Moral certainty provides confident justification for immoral acts'. This MAY be valid BUT you must define what immoral is.

And, if you do not have a basis for what moral is (I find, in you comments, that you have a certain relatively modern view that implies that the sufferring of people you can see is ther greatest evil, and prevention is greatest good, while the siffering of those whom you cannot see is not considered so much), how do you define immoral

I do not want to accuse you, but it seems your view of immoral is a bit too limited
---peter3594 on 4/27/10




Atheist from the day you bobbed up on this site you have made broad generalizations which you either won't or can't defend. Your latest being "Moral certainty provides confident justification for immoral acts."

Please define "immoral" and explain why anyone should agree with your opinion of what constitutes immorality. Please explain your credentials for seizing the moral high ground and declaring anyone's actions immoral?

Now remember you are writing on a Christian site. Please tell us all what Jesus commands us do which is immoral.
---Warwick on 4/27/10


Larry,

Excuse me. But life does matter to me. Afterall, I don't live in a delusional world where after picking and chosing rights, wrongs, roads to salvation, and the right god, I get to live forever...

It seems to me that too many have arrived at a pathetic destination where they can confidently judge others and see no moral difficulties whatsoever in saying that a case like this girl's is simple and straight forward.

But what else is new? Every soldier enters battle and kills with certain confidence that 'god' of one name or another is on his side.

Moral certainty provides confident justification for immoral acts. And that certainty is something the deeply religious are very good at.
---atheist on 4/26/10


\\My point is this: If abortions is made illegal, all women who have spontainous abortions must be investigated for possible induced abortions / abortion.\\

This is nothing but scare tactics.

Back when induced abortions was called "criminal abortion," women who suffered miscarriages (which medically are "spontaneous abortions") were NEVER investigated for having induced them.

Why would that happen should induced abortion again be made illegal?
---Cluny on 4/26/10


1st Clif--Many Christian (and secular) organizations provide food and other aid to unfortunate children around the world. It may not be adequate, but it certainly helps a lot.

Would turning a blind eye to abortion in this country help them? Are we to ignore the needs of those around us in favor of helping the needy elsewhere? That's what those who passed by the injured man did until the "Good Samaritan" came by.

This logic strikes me as the same that our parents used when they urged us not to waste food because children were starving in (name any country).
---Donna66 on 4/26/10


Atheist, since you are spiritually dead and too horrified to even seek the one who grants spiritual life, why such a kerfuffle over something that doesn't matter to atheists i.e. LIFE?

In order to continue to straddle the fence and stand claim that your life holds "some" value, you'll have to answer "says who, how much" and "why?"


BTW, who shook the human cocktail of Oxygen, Carbon and trace elements of Hydrogen, Nitrogen, Magnisium and other metals hard enough to create a conscious and innate sense of right and wrong?


You're on a pathetic journey my friend.












---larry on 4/25/10


Sometimes I wonder if the fundamentalists on here live in the real world!
Every day 30,000 children die of hunger related causes.
Is God concerned??
...Wouldn't it be more prudent to save the ones already here???
The fuss about abortion far outweighs starvation!
---1st_cliff on 4/25/10
Many Christians do live in the real world as evidenced by ministries like Compassion International or World Vision that focus on child sponsorship. People can do both you know.

I have sponsored a child in Honduras for 15 years now, and I prefer to fight the abortion problem in protest lines rather than the voting booth.
---obewan on 4/25/10


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As usual Cliff you miss the point. Vast numbers of people suffer daily hunger, and many organizations, mostly Christian, are working hard to overcome this. However the problems are significant as often the starvation is the direct of that countries governments mad policies. Two prime examples are Zimbabwe and North Korea.

However I do not believe that killing starving children is the answer, any more than abortion is the answer.

The point is that we do not have the right to murder God's creatures.

The statistics I have read say that more then one million unborn children are killed each year in the US alone!
---Warwick on 4/25/10


Sometimes I wonder if the fundamentalists on here live in the real world!
Every day 30,000 children die of hunger related causes.
Is God concerned??
He fed the Israelites with manna from heaven, but not a crumb to these unfortunates.
He can control weather, some places it hasn't rained in years.They can't grow crops to feed their babies!
You're concerned about the "unborn" who will die early from hunger!
Wouldn't it be more prudent to save the ones already here???
The fuss about abortion far outweighs starvation!
---1st_cliff on 4/25/10


1st Cliff: I agree with you that God sees human life on earth very differently than we do. He also sees suffering differently. As the Bible teaches, His ways are higher than ours. However, I do not believe that He likes abortion (mans choice for life/death). That is why that he commanded in the Ten Commandments that we "shalt not kill." While we are under GRACE with the NEW COVENANT, He does not change. He still does not like murder. God has an appointed time for each to die to this mortal body and it is not up to man to make those types of decisions. It is not part of the "freedom in Christ". The nations will be judged and this country will be judged for every abortion that we have approved of. God help us.
---jody on 4/25/10


Atheist: OK, forceful was a bit heavy.

I just mean: is the question to see what we think about the case (which is fine with me) or are you trying to imply we don't care about the girl (which I would not like - yes, the girl must be considered, probably more than many people would consider her situation, but the case of the baby must also be considered)

I just think this is a case where whatever is done, there wrong things will happen (they already have happenned, of course, but there may not be a 'proper' solution
---peter3594 on 4/25/10


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I serve a just God and a righteous God who hates sin. He will punish sinners. "The ten commandments" He wrote for His people by His very own finger. God's laws He did not write for Himself. "Thou salt not kill". Amen.
---catherine on 4/25/10


God made us, therefore He owns us, therefore He alone has the right to set the rules. And He does. It is God's word that says-I will avenge-and that-the wages of sin is death. It is God's right and His task to punish sin as He chooses. Those killed by God received the reward for their long rebellion against Him. He warned them over and over.

How arrogant for a man to question God's right.

Conversely He commands that we do not murder. Abortion is not the result of God's judgement.
---Warwick on 4/25/10


God does not hold "life" as sacred as some believe. How many thousands did He drown in the flood (including babies) or the 1st born of Egypt, or Sodom and Gomorrah??
If the next of kin could catch the perpetrator before he reached the "city of refuge" he could legally kill him without guilt!
Parents were told to stone even their own son who broke the law!
"Capital" punishment was sanctioned by God!
Early abortion is more of a "moral" society problem than religious one!
Partial birth abortion is definitely murder!(at that point a child is more than a fetus) IMHO
---1st_cliff on 4/25/10


Atheist, you are correct, in evolutionary thinking the weak die. Conversely Christ died to save the weak. And said "what you do unto the least of mine, you do unto me." How can we therefore murder unborn children?

Christs teaching is the absloute opposite of the underlying foundation for your world view.

In Christian thinking the rapist should be punished and the girl helped to give birth safely, maybe by Caesarian section. Why should the helpless child die?

The holocaust was the result of Darwinist survival of the fittest thinking. As was the slaughter of Australian aboriginals. A matter of record!

To avoid killing does not make us God (not god) but followers of Him who commanded us to do no murder.
---Warwick on 4/25/10


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'atheist': How well have you researched this case? I realize that you are exercising your 'moral' compass of situational ethics to slam Christians, but your example is flawed. The girl could have had an abortion (it is legal there), but she went over the term limit. Her case is NOT life threatening. She could always have a cesaerian section and nobody has to be murdered. Why do you liberals salivate at the chance to kill a baby?
---jerry6593 on 4/25/10


Since when have women who have suffered miscarriages been prosecuted for having an illegal abortion?

---Cluny on 4/23/10

Not yet at least.

My point is this: If abortions is made illegal, all women who have spontainous abortions must be investigated for possible induced abortions / abortion.

And because our justice system is not perfect, many inocent women will suffer under this law. Many inocent women will get jailed as murderers for having spontainous abortions.

Many inocent grieving women will be held in jail for months until their case comes before a judge, is that what we really want?
---francis on 4/24/10


One thing I've learned in all my years is that you cant reason with "emotion"!
This subject is highly charged with emotion!
God created "us" with the ability to procreate, He does not oversee "each" birth.
Conjoined twins, fetal alcohol syndrome, autism, CP, mentally challenged, limbs missing, blind and deaf,Down syndrome,still births ,birth defects too many to mention!
If you make God responsible for each birth you'd have to admit He's not doing a good job! He just started the ball rolling, the responsibility is up to us!
---1st_cliff on 4/24/10


This is not the first case of a very young girl becoming pregnant. In my graduating class from high school over 40 years ago, one of my classmates had a 5-year old child as she had gotten pregnant at 12 and gave birth at 13. Throughout the years I have read numerous accounts of young girls getting pregnant by rape or affairs with boys. The topic of abortion was never mentioned in those articles.
---KarenD on 4/24/10


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Peter,

"Forceful" is not the term I would chose at all.

I constantly hear the statement that abortion is "murder". My question is if abortion in even this extreme case would be "murder" or is it something different.

Most responses indicate that people feel abortion is "murder" in all cases. (You seem to sense the difficulty of a claiming a moral certitude in this case.)

If it is murder then participants should be punished as murderers are. Calling people "murderers" does not stop the practice. Prison or execution would.

But is it really "murder" in all cases?
---atheist on 4/24/10


Atheist: I will make a note here about my feelings, which may be unjust.....

I have a feeling that you may be using this genuinely horrible case to suggest we (Christians) are too forceful in opposing abortion, and do not care about the fate of the women

To that, I think both Jerry and Warwick have made very reasonable comments

BUT - I agree it is a terrible case, and I would hope and pray never to have to make such a decision!
---peter3594 on 4/24/10


Francis -- A spontaneous abortion would never be considered criminal. Most spontaneous abortions (miscarriages) remain a private affair, usually occuring at home, sometimes before anyone is even aware of the pregnancy. (In any case, it doesn't occur because of some delibarate intervention.)

WOMEN NEVER WERE CHARGED with abortion, even when abortion was illegal! A faw "abortionist" doctors, yes... women, never. With the prevailing moral mind-set, I'm positive they never would be.
---Donna66 on 4/24/10


Jerry---two wrongs do not justify a third, the death of the girl is almost certain.

Warwick---following survival of the fittest thinking the girl should die because she is unfit to bear children at ten. So now, you are a Darwinist.

Making the Holocaust equivalent to an intervention to save this girls life (even if another life is lost) is a pathetically cowardly argument requiring no moral thinking whatsoever.

Likely, both the child and the potential child will die if the path you two propose is followed.

Who made you guys god?
---atheist on 4/24/10


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\\However, since abortion is murder, would it not be better to reduce the possiblility of the temptation to commit such a murder simply by encouraging the use of contraceptives?\\

Best of all would be to reduce the incidence of rape, adultery, and fornication by abstinence and self-control.

How does that sound?
---Cluny on 4/24/10


It seems the general feeling that abortion is always murder. Even in this rare but extreme case where a girl of ten was made pregnant by a rape by her stepfather and the likelyhood for survival of either the child or her baby is doubtful, but the child's life might be saved through the intervention of an abortion.

But 32,000 adult women are made pregnant by rape each year, but since I take it that for the rigorists on this issue, even an extremely early abortion would be seen as murder also.

So in the case of rape, there is no choice.

However, since abortion is murder, would it not be better to reduce the possiblility of the temptation to commit such a murder simply by encouraging the use of contraceptives?

---atheist on 4/24/10


Atheist I believe the answer to your question is that we live in an evolution soaked survival of the fittest world. A world where the unborn are often considered to be non-persons, just like the Nazi's, who for evolutionary reasons, considered the Jews to be non-persons. Just like those who listened to Charles Darwin came to believe Australian aboriginals were also non persons. And in each of these cases slaughter on a massive scale occurred, and continues to occur.
---Warwick on 4/24/10


Well,because of corrupt minds it is a tough call. Lets see a little in Jeremiah 1:5, what God has to say. Does anyone care how God feels on any one subject?>>>> Before I formed you in the womb I knew you and before you were born I consecrated you. I have appointed you a prophet to the nations....Yes, we are all so full of logic, and some of it you are receivng from your god, Satan. And we are all so very smart, intellects, oh my yes we are. None of it will do you any good in hell!
---catherine on 4/24/10


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'atheist': You may not have heard this before, but two wrongs don't make a right.
---jerry6593 on 4/24/10


Atheist: you are right, in pointing this case out, so we can consider what would happen if we banned abortion completely [though I think that, in a moral sense, it would be better]. But the situation is that right now, those cases are so rare..... [I hope!]

I was living in China, where contraceptives are hard to get, and often very dangerous [my nephew in law is an eunich BECAUSE his mother was taking a dangerous 'pill' before she got pregnant, men don't want to use condoms, and so abortions are the most common method of contraception (I hear a number of several million a year), inluding a friend of my wife who changed her mind and had a so-called abortin in the eigth or ninth month - that I think anyone would call murder
---peter3594 on 4/23/10


\\There are many women who have misscariages, and if abortion is illegal, then these women would have to be arrested, or interogated as murderers\\

And since when have women who have suffered miscarriages been prosecuted for having an illegal abortion?

BTW--the proper medical term is "spontaneous abortion" as opposed to "induced abortion."

Abortion is NEVER safe for the baby.
---Cluny on 4/23/10


Should not the doctors, ... be arrested, tried, convicted and punished for multiple pre-meditated "murders"? And likewise for all adult women who have abortions? How about the nurses?
---atheist on 4/22/10

No they should not.
Abortion is a sticky issue. My #1 reason for opposing making abortion illegal is Misscariages.

There are many women who have misscariages, and if abortion is illegal, then these women would have to be arrested, or interogated as murderers.

Then there is the federal tracking of all pregnancies just like the federal tracking of births, and death. Too much invasion of privacy with making abortion illegal.

All in all abortions should be rare, legal and safe.
---francis on 4/23/10


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Actually, when abortion was illegal, few doctors were charged or convicted. No nurses and none of the women who had abortions performed on themselves, were charged with anything. But the threat was always there.

The doctors who performed abortions in those days, if they were reputable and operated in a hospital, always had a defensible reason why abortion was a "medical necessity" (whether or not it really was).
---Donna66 on 4/23/10


\\Should not the doctors, in particular those who participate in these "murders" be arrested, tried, convicted and punished for multiple pre-meditated "murders"? And likewise for all adult women who have abortions? How about the nurses?\\

At one time, they were.

There was a time that to call a physician an abortionist was the worst insult you could give him.

In my experience (and I've been deeply involved in pro-life work), the professional, ethical, and hygenic standards of the clinics are equal to the best back alleys. The things I could tell you from my own knowledge would make your hair curl.

Why do you think that pre-natal infanticide is not killing?
---Cluny on 4/22/10


Mary the case you mentioned is a difficult one and my heart goes out to the pregnant child. However as bad as her situation is, will it be improved by the killing of the unborn child who has done nothing wrong? Where are we given the right to decide who lives or dies?
---Warwick on 4/22/10


Cluny,

Probably not that many girls each year. But the CDC reports that over 32,000 pregnancies of adult women result each year from rape.

So do you argue that because the number of girls made pregnant is small or that the victim of a rape is an adult, that abortion is still murder? (Not clear on why the numbers should matter anyway.)

If abortion is "murder" then should not the punishments be the same for other types of premeditated murder?

Should not the doctors, in particular those who participate in these "murders" be arrested, tried, convicted and punished for multiple pre-meditated "murders"? And likewise for all adult women who have abortions? How about the nurses?
---atheist on 4/22/10


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carla and Atheist --- I don't know about the law in Mexico, but before abortion was legalized here, Mexico is where many Americans went for abortions. (I'm sure private practitioners perform them still, but the cost might prohibitive for this child.)
In this country, before abortion was legalized AND afterward, this child would easily be able to obtain a therapeutic abortion. And I would certainly not stand in her way, though I'm usually against abortion.
---Donna66 on 4/22/10


Carla, I am NOT a member of the "lukewarm" church, I simply believe this is one of those tragic cases in which it's better for the sake of the pregnant CHILD to be allowed to have an abortion. Does anyone not care how young this child is?
---Mary on 4/22/10


Carla: "Under no circumstances will I agree with an Anti Christ, who's morals and standards are guided by self." "MURDER! first degree..."

First, I am not sure what you consider an anti christ, but I think you are referring to me. I do believe that there was an historical Christ, but that history as shown by the four gospels is uncertain and conflicting, (not to mention the gospels that were left out.)

Simply, if all abortions are murder then should not the murderers be treated as such and punishment meted out accordingly?
---atheist on 4/22/10


atheist, how many abortions are done because a little girl 10 years old or younger was raped?
---Cluny on 4/22/10


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That would be a terrible case to judge (the ten year old), and I am not wise enough to make any comments. Whatever is chosen (whether insisting she have the baby or allowing her to have an abortion), it will be terrible, because what caused it was terrible.
Could I also point out what happenned when David got Basheba pregnant?
---peter3594 on 4/22/10


Mary,

Sadly it is a real case. She lives in a very poor state in Mexico and did not see a doctor until very late. She is seventeen weeks, carrying the pregnancy to term may kill both. I am most distrubed by the others willingness to ignore that this is just a child.

Religions are poor equipped to deal with such issues, drawing from scripture, written by men ignorant of biology, and blind to the future of medicine.

I think to say that in this case abortion is murder is simple and requires no thinking or humnanity.

Should the girl and her doctor, (if an abortion is performed) be imprisoned and punished for murder?
---atheist on 4/22/10


Nurses Doctors who take the position to kill will be judged by a jury above our human assumption none of our concerns and out of our control so to abortion clinic and such like.

However the abortion is wrong but there's grace and forgiveness forgiveness.
True forgiveness comes with understanding and realisation of salvation or through guilt.

So now we have ruled out the powers we are unable and will never be able to justify it's down to taking a life considering self rather than life.

MURDER! first degree without wanting or fearing Gods commandments concerning Death by wilful conduct. Murder and multiple abortions using it for contraception that's another debate!!!!!
---Carla on 4/22/10


So sad that when animals are killed it makes local or national headlines, but when thousands and thousands of babies are aborted each year nothing is reported.
The last i checked, taking a human life was murder.
---JIM on 4/22/10


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Mary your obviously a member of the luke warm party that's if you attend chuch at all Under no circumstances will I agree with an Anti Christ, who's morals and standards are guided by self.

Godly standards are guided by godly precepts and concepts namely bible advice.

---Carla on 4/22/10


atheist, I am inclined to agree with your comments about the penalty for abortion. However, the prison system(at least in America) is already overflowing and causing such a burden that states can barely afford to continue putting people away. Unless Death penalties are exacted in a more "timely" manner and not allowed to be dragged out over many years, this proposal would only finish off the prison system for good. Abortion IS murder, but, we have all been seduced into believing that "everything will be alright" if we just don't rock the boat.
---tommy3007 on 4/22/10


I find it sad that atheist is the only one I agree with on this issue. Atheist, is this a real case or just a hypothetical? Just curious, thanks :)
---Mary on 4/22/10


Even in this case, the consensus seems to be no matter what abortion is murder.

Should then not all women, doctors, and anyone who in anyway particpates in an abortion be tried for murder?

Wouldn't it make more sense to lobby for the punishment of abortion particpants for trial and punishment for murder?---Rather than a half-way measure of overturning abortion laws? Unless abortion is not murder you cannot ask for less. But not asking for this punishment and calling all abortions murder is then just empty political theater.
---atheist on 4/21/10


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Mary....Do you know what trauma it would be for a 10-year old girl to know that she had an abortion? By the way, 10-year old girls are a lot more mature than when I was a 10-year old girl.
---KarenD on 4/21/10


Right throughout Scripture, murder that is the intentional killing of innocent humans is regarded as a heinous sin (Exodus 20:13, Matthew 19:18, Romans 13:9). Since abortion kills an innocent human being, it is nothing less than murder. So all the usual hard cases pushed by pro-abortionists, e.g. What if the woman was raped?, What if the child is deformed?, What if she cant afford to keep the child? are irrelevant.

We should also remember Ezekiel 18:20, which prohibits executing a child for the crime of his/her father. This means that even the tragic cases of pregnancies due to incest or rape are no justification for killing the innocent child conceived.
---a_friend on 4/21/10


Cluny, I'm thinking of the 10-year old child who's been raped and is pregant--and too young to understand all the implications of it all. Someone has to come to her defense, I don't see anyone else doing that.
---Mary on 4/21/10


\\Wait a minute! Do you people have ANY CLUE what trauma it would be for a 10-year old child to carry a pregnancy to term and after being raped at that?! GOSH! Show some mercy on the little girl, people.
---Mary on 4/20/10\\

You're right, Mary.

The unborn child should be executed for the crime of the father's being a rapist.

This is mercy in action, to be sure. And as Jesus said, "Blessed are the merciful."

BTW--did you know that women who abort their first pregnancy have a higher risk of breast cancer than those who have not done so?

That is because the female breast does NOT finish developing until just before the birth of the first child.
---Cluny on 4/21/10


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The Abortion does not save the girl from terrific unnecessary trauma after an abortion her beasts and stomach will still be traumatised as if she had given birth although a lesser evil, Two wrongs will still not illiminate what she will have experienced and gone through.

Assuming the consequences either side of the coin is inevitable, however the evil has already taken place so (why kill an innocent baby).

The shame for the parent if that's the case is already in existence killing the unborn will not take that away.
---Carla on 4/21/10


No abortion is not always murder.

Numbers 5:27 And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, [that], if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, [and become] bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people.

Numbers 5:28 And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean, then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed.

Numbers 5:29 This [is] the law of jealousies, when a wife goeth aside [to another] instead of her husband, and is defiled,
---francis on 4/21/10


\\ but the baby would go straight to Heaven\\

And where did you get that idea?

The Bible says, "In sin did my mother conceive me," even though David's mother was lawfully married.
---Cluny on 4/21/10


Part 2: Don't get me wrong--I'm mostly against abortion too but the baby would go straight to Heaven--but the 10-year old child needs much counseling and help just to survive the rape, let alone carrying a baby to term. I can't even imagine the trauma of such a thing!
---Mary on 4/20/10


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Yes Mary the trauma appears overwhelming, but the sin of abortion is that we have no right to interfere with God's plan for someones life. That fetus belongs to God and he's not glorified in sin begetting sin.
We've got to be merciful on this child without allowing Satan be further glorified

If God knows us before we are formed in our mother's womb, just what are you telling God with an abortion?

We understand that God hates the shedding of innocent blood but don't seem to understand he makes no difference between the 4 month old soul inside the womb and the 10-year old soul outside the womb.

On this we can agree, sin has horrible consequences and this shows just how wretched we are.
---larry on 4/20/10


Wait a minute! Do you people have ANY CLUE what trauma it would be for a 10-year old child to carry a pregnancy to term and after being raped at that?! GOSH! Show some mercy on the little girl, people.
---Mary on 4/20/10


Abortion is ALWAYS murder, even in rape cases - because you can do adoption with pregnancy from rape. God says He HATES the shedding of INNOCENT blood (abortion) - if God hates it, we MUST hate it also. Rape is NOT an excuse to murder and be in sin.
---Leslie on 4/20/10


Something even worse happened in Brazil last year.

A 9 year old girl was raped by her step-father and conceived TWINS!

These are two cases where no matter what you do, it's the wrong thing.

One might argue that for such children to attempt to bear babies (espeically twins) would seriously endanger their lives.

But what good does it do to perform abortions on these poor girls and send them back to the same abusive environments?

Nevertheless, VERY FEW abortions are ever done to save the physical life of the mother when she is mortally endangered by carrying children to term.
---Cluny on 4/20/10


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We sure live in an unbalanced world. If a serial killer is to be executed certain very vocal people protest, long and hard.

Strangely these same people support a woman's right to kill her unborn child!

So we shouldn't execute killers but it's all right to kill the innocent.
---Warwick on 4/20/10


Yes it is still murder. What did the unborn baby do to warrant being murdered?
---KarenD on 4/20/10


The sin is committed by the father not by the child or the unwanted baby. Yes this is absolutely disgusting, despicable and there is going to be loads of garbage to deal with. But as her mother I would be devastated hurt and wishing it all to go away but the truth still lies in the moral thing to do for the two babies. It ain't going to be easy and it's going to hurt like hell.

Ive been through both birth and Caesarean we can opt for caesarean in Britain and I wouldn't want my daughter cut but if she is able to go through with the birth with assistance I would love and support her through it, give the baby up if she couldn't face it or support her if she wanted us to keep it.
---Carla on 4/20/10


Under no circumstances would I agree to kill an innocent baby, an abortion is no guarantee that her poor little insides is going to sustain a normal birth should she wish to have a child in adulthood. And Yes I have had a DNC when I was found to have a sac with no foetus and told the possibilities. Gory and unnecessary, sorry for the detail but I think with my experience of first degree rape also and having the child I should know!
---Carla on 4/20/10


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Yes and yes! The aborted child is innocent in the matter. If God sees fit for a child to mature to birth in it's mother's womb, no one has the right to terminate (abort) it's precious life regardless of the situation. What the devil means for evil, God can always turn for good! God sees what will transpire in each of our lives, from beginning to end regardless of how our entry into the world happened.
---Leon on 4/20/10


The bible gives us no distinction between killing an unwanted baby because you were raped and killing an unwanted baby because you simply don't want the child, can't take care of the child for a lifetime or because you can't handle another child -

Murder is murder no matter what the reason.

Murder is sin and the wages of sin is death.

There's adoption - that 10 yr. old girl can give the baby up for adoption.
---Donna5535 on 4/20/10


I believe Abortion is murder in any case, and murder is sin.
---a_friend on 4/20/10


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