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Jesus Recieves Holy Spirit

Did Jesus receive the Holy Spirit at his baptism or did he already have the Holy Spirit? Reference John 1:32-34

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 ---mima on 4/26/10
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The confusion is all yours Warwick.

Interesting trinitarians will say, "He had to be to die. We also know He was "God manifest in flesh" "- Warwick 5/20/10.

So Warwick will teach that 'God' (in the form of Jesus) 'had to die'. Of course, this is ridiculous because God cannot die. God is eternal. This is why trinitarianism is dangerous and AC, as it negates the power of the death of Christ.

God could not possibly have died. But the truth is Jehovah God (YHWH) didn't die. It was Jehovah's Son, Jesus Christ who died.

A non-trinitarian rendering of 1 Tim.3:16 reads- "He (referring to Jesus) was made manifest in the flesh".
---David8318 on 5/21/10


He, ofcourse already had the Person of the Holy Spirit, for He was and is God. Fully God and fully man....The Scripture that you mentioned [the dove], Was the Person of the Holy Spirit, which took the form of a dove at Jesus baptism.....The dove also symbolizes---peace, love, forgiveness, and the church.
---catherine on 5/21/10


David, as you have been told many times 'incarnate' means-came in the flesh. Not anyone's opinion, as dictionaries show.

That 'incarnate' does not appear in Scripture is not relevant, as it is a convenient, correct, term used to describe reality, therefore a Bible teaching, just like Trinity. See 1 Timothy 3:16- God manifest in flesh. See also John 1:14, Philippians 2:6-11.

Colossians 2:9 "All the fulness of deity (GOD) lives in bodily form." God is Spirit, not flesh, but 'lives' within the body of Jesus fully. Therefore Jesus is fully God/ fully man.

Your JW indoctrination does not allow you to accept Scripture as written. You are dictated to by an institution.
---Warwick on 5/21/10


"The Word became flesh" John 1:14, "For in Christ all the fullness of the deity lives in bodily form" Colossians 2:9. Do you grasp that? God the Spirit resides fully in Jesus the man. Fully God and fully man.
John 15:John.4: "Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine, no more can ye, except ye abide in me."
Are christians God therefore?
---Nana on 5/21/10


Warwick,

The word 'Trinity' is not in the Bible. Let me list some other words that are not in Scripture:

-Jehovah's Witness (Jehovah is and witness is, but not together)
-Seventh Day Adventist (First two yes, third one no)
-Latter Day Saints (all three yes but not together, note: Mormon is not)
-Dinity or Binity
-Unity (in Bible three times but not in the context of Unitarianism)

The funny thing is that I don't believe in a trinity. I believe that there is a verse in the Bible that says. "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." 1Jn 5:7

The Word came as Jesus in the flesh and is the only way to salvation.
---aka_joseph on 5/21/10




Luke 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none [is] good, save one, [that is], God.
John 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my [sheep], and am known of mine.
---micha9344 on 5/21/10


David you give clear evidence that JW's are well schooled in confusion. You attempt to confuse others and in doing so have become totally confused.

We know Jesus was a man, He had to be to die. We also know He was "God manifest in flesh" 1 Tim. 3:16, "The Word became flesh" John 1:14, "For in Christ all the fullness of the deity lives in bodily form" Colossians 2:9. Do you grasp that? God the Spirit resides fully in Jesus the man. Fully God and fully man.

Also from the Bible we know God is Creator, Redeemer and the Alpha and the Omega. From the same Bible we know Jesus also has the same titles. Therefore they are one and the same God.
---Warwick on 5/20/10


I dont get the argument here. Is it over whether or not Jesus Christ is spirit or flesh?

(John) He was the Word (which was God), and the Word became flesh. The Word is now Jesus Christ the Son.


before: Father, Word, Holy Ghost

after: Father, Son, Holy Ghost

as I understand it...
---JackB on 5/20/10


Micha9344 says some do not know what 'incarnate' means. Micha I believe simply does not know 'incarnate is not a Bible teaching.

Look at Micha's definition for 'incarnate' (no source reference provided) - "1.Embodied in flesh, given a bodily, especially a human, form, personified."

Micha believes Jesus was 'GIVEN' a (flesh) body. But notice the scriptural word used in EVERY verse Micha quotes,

Romans 1:3 Jesus Christ... was MADE of the seed of David according to the flesh,

John 1:14 And the Word was MADE flesh,

Philippians 2:7 was MADE in the likeness of men:

Jesus wasn't given flesh to wear like a coat. He was MADE flesh. Jesus was not spirit 'clothed' with flesh. He WAS flesh.
---David8318 on 5/20/10


Well, I rest my case! Warwick says "God is... spirit, residing fully in Jesus..." - You can't get more AC than that.

Warwick is a mouth-piece for the AC, who openly admits Jesus was 'God' who 'is spirit'. This is trinitarian anti-Christ propaganda (1 John 4:2,3).

I do know exactly what you trinitarians believe. You deny the priesthood of the Christ through your Hellenic, non-Biblical doctrine of the trinity.

Jesus said 'God is a Spirit'. Jesus said that while he was manifest in the flesh. Thus there is a definite distinction between Jehovah and Jesus. Jehovah is 'Spirit', Jesus was 'flesh'.

Jehovah said 'I am God and not man'. Hosea 11:9

Jehovah/YHWH is in all genuine Hebrew & LXX manuscripts.
---David8318 on 5/20/10




David you make no sense and are deceitful.

You know what Trinitarians believe but deceitfully missrepresent our beliefs!

Jesus is God incarnate "God manifest in flesh" 1 Tim. 3:16, This is what incarnate means, as Micha says.

God is not man, but Spirit, residing fully in Jesus the man "The fullness of the deity lives in human form" Colossians 2:9.

God appeared in a human body, coming to die in our place,(the wages of sin is death Romans 6:23). He had to be human to die, but God to save.

'Jehovah' does not appear in Scripture, does that mean He doesn't exist?

Scripture says God is Creator/Redeemer, and Jesus is Creator/Redeemer. How many Creators and Redeemers are there?
---Warwick on 5/20/10


Apparently some do not know what 'incarnate' means:
From ecclesiastical Latin incarnatus, past participle of incarnari (be made flesh), from in- + caro (flesh).
1.Embodied in flesh, given a bodily, especially a human, form, personified.
2.(obsolete) Flesh-colored, crimson.
Philippians 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh,
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
A god was made flesh whom the God shared His glory with?
---micha9344 on 5/19/10


'Trinity' is not a word found in the Bible to describe God, as aka joseph rightly points out. It is thus a man-made belief that forms the backbone of every cultist movement.

The trinity is also anti-Christ in the context of 1 John 4:2,3 because the trinity doctrine insidiously teaches that Jesus did not come in the flesh but was 'God' and that Jesus was 'God incarnate'. Jesus said, 'God is a Spirit' (John 4:24).

So irrespective of whether a trinitarian says Jesus came in the flesh, he doesn't really believe this because he also believes 'Jesus is God' and is 'God incarnate'.

The truth is Jesus is not God but 'Son of the Most High' and was made manifest in the flesh. (John 1:14)
---David8318 on 5/19/10


what is the different of born with the holy spirit and receiving the holy ghost
---jonell on 5/19/10


John 8:John.8:29: "And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone, for I do always those things that please him."
If the Father leaves one alone, would the spirit leave with Him?
After all it says in Matthew 3:17: "And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."
---Nana on 5/5/10


When biblical authors,translators or editors attempt to distinguish one spirit from another they did not clearly define .All spirit is for a single purpose-to spiritualize the mortal person but there are functions of one the other may not specifically include or focus on.With biblical references (only) It could not be the HS because it's presence was first felt at pentecost.This includes also the spirit of truth because bible teachers group this spirit as the same as the HS.This eliminates two at once.The other that is also grouped into one heading is the indwelling spirit or inner man.This is the spirit I believe was seen at baptism.
---earl on 5/4/10


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At the moment a child is conceived in the womb God puts his hand inside the woman and places the soul, thus when that soul dies God snatches that soul out again. you all are limiting God, God can do anything!
God took a piece of his soul and placed it inside of Mary along with the same ingredients it took to make Adam, thus you have a child made of God and by God. He created Jesus to teach us and sadly dies for us. There was no doubt the HS was in HIM, there was no way it could not be, the baptism was to show us what God would like us to do after we Accept Jesus Christ. to show everyone we accepted his son.
you people are making it to complicated.
---Kent on 5/3/10


Yes brother AKA Joseph, Jesus did come in the flesh.
Saint John chapters 1 and 4!
---miche3754 on 4/30/10


Yes, the bible does not say 'trinity.'

But the bible says this in 1Jn 4:2-3.

"Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesses not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come, and even now already is it in the world.

So, before we go any further, everybody reading this answer this question, please answer this: Did Jesus Christ come in the flesh? Anything besides a simple 'yes' or 'no' will be taken as a 'no', and non-answers will be known by the Lord as to the answer in your heart.

My answer is 'yes'.
---aka_joseph on 4/29/10


--For with Him were always present the Word and Wisdom, the Son and the Spirit, by whom and in whom, freely and spontaneously, He made all things, to whom also He speaks, saying, Let Us make man after Our image and likeness,
--He, [although] beyond comprehension, and boundless and invisible, rendered Himself visible, and comprehensible, and within the capacity of those who believe, that He might vivify those who receive and behold Him through faith
--Thus, therefore, was God revealed, for God the Father is shown forth through all these [operations], the Spirit indeed working, and the Son ministering, while the Father was approving, and mans salvation being accomplished.
--Irenaeus(2nd century) Against Heresies, Bk 4, Ch 20
---mica9344 on 4/29/10


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Yes, the bible does not say 'trinity.'

But the bible says this in 1Jn 4:2-3.

"Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesses not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come, and even now already is it in the world.

So, before we go any further, everybody reading this answer this question, please answer this: Did Jesus Christ come in the flesh? Anything besides a simple 'yes' or 'no' will be taken as a 'no', and non-answers will be known by the Lord as to the answer in your heart.

My answer is 'yes'.
---aka_joseph on 4/29/10


mima:

How old was Adam when he first sinned? The Bible doesn't tell us, but he is always portrayed as an adult. Since he named all the animals (and there are a LOT of animals), he must have been around quite a long time before the fall.

He also didn't have the Holy Spirit in him. According to the Bible, the reason we all sin in the first place is due to the sin nature (i.e. original sin) that we inherited from Adam after he sinned - yet Jesus doesn't trace his paternal line back to Adam, so he didn't inherit that sin nature.
---StrongAxe on 4/29/10


We've answered these. You haven't accepted the answers.
and again, but you will not accept.
Why did God need to be baptized?
To fulfill the Law of Moses, so that the Lamb can be without spot or blemish. Mat 3:13-15
Why did God then need to be baptized in HolySpirit?
He wasn't, not in a NT sense, just as the prophet spoke by the HS but were not baptized. John 1:33
Why did Satan try to tempt God after his baptism?
Satan was looking for the Christ, The Son of God, the Spotless Lamb... he found Him.
---MIchael on 4/29/10


All the trinitarian posts are full of hot air and no substance. The truth can be a bitter pill to swallow and the truth is, no trinitarian is able to explain why the Bible never refers to God as 'Christ'.

If Jesus is God 'incarnate' (not a Bible word or teaching),

Why did God need to be baptized?

Why did God then need to be baptized in HolySpirit?

Why did Satan try to tempt God after his baptism? Mt.4:10.

Questions trinitarians are to date unable to answer. This is why the 'trinity' false doctrine attacks the very core of Christianity, because it destroys the meaning of 'Christ', and blinds people to the power of Christ's sacrificial death.
---David8318 on 4/29/10


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Amen Mima,
That is a very good question.
And doesn't the Bible state that the Holy Spirit overshadowed mary and got her with child?

How could the HS have done that but not been Jesus?

Raises the question about the incedent between Mary and Elizabeth when they were pregnant with Jesus and John.
How they recognized each other even in the womb.
---miche3754 on 4/29/10


Mark Eaton- you do not appear to be aware of what you are saying.

In one breath you say to me, "You are so determined to prove the trinity wrong..." (4/26/10) and then you say, "When did I say anything about the trinity?" (4/28/10)

It is obvious the 'trinity' is a false teaching. 'Christ' is not eternal.

You have not provided any 'trinity' scriptures to show 'God is Christ' or that anyone should worship Christ.

That God is not Christ can be seen when Jesus quoting from Deuteronomy 6:13 where God's name appeared in the Original Hebrew (YHWH) said, 'Go away Satan, it is Jehovah your God you must worship'. Mt.4:10.

Jesus said this not long after being baptised by Jehovah with HolySpirit.
---David8318 on 4/29/10


If Jesus did not have the Holy Spirit until his baptism by John then that means that Jesus lived here on earth about 30 years without the Holy Spirit. Is that scenario possible. Could Jesus the man, who had no sin, lived on earth sinless for 30 years?
Then to the episode of Jesus asking unanswerable questions to the high priests in the temple when he was 12 years old raises this question. Could this have been done by a child of 12 years without him having the Holy Spirit?
---mima on 4/29/10


"What is it that you want to see? Mark Eaton"

The statement was made that there is a multitude of verses that "detail" the trinity.

I 'want to see' just one.

First century (Jewish) Christians had many things explained, articulated and expounded upon, yes detailed, that enabled them to grasp and comprehend various facets of the Christian faith.

Arguably, the new concept of a triune God (something absolutely foreign to the Jews) would require some explanation.

What do I want to see? Where is this new teaching "detailed" as asserted by Eloy. Not inference, not a crazy quilt patch work of nuance but an explanation, a detailing of this important new concept.
---scott on 4/29/10


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"We need not hesitate to declare our conviction that the disputed words were not written by St. John: that they were originally brought into Latin copies in Africa from the margin, where they had been placed as a pious and orthodox gloss on ver. 8: that from the Latin they crept into two or three late Greek codices, and thence into the printed Greek text, a place to which they had no rightful claim." F.H.A.Scrivener -A Plain Introduction to the Criticism of the New Testament 1883 third ed., p. 654.
---scott on 4/29/10


Cite one verse that "details" the trinity.
---scott on 4/29/10

What is it that you want to see?

I can give you Scripture after Scripture that prove The Heavenly Father is GOD, Jesus is GOD, and that the Holy Spirit is GOD.

But my feeling is that this concept of "trinity" is not what you are fighting against.

Why don't you tell us what it is that you do not agree with and save us some time?
---Mark_Eaton on 4/29/10


1Cor 12:4-6 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
1Cor 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
1Cor 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
Pro 8:22-23 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
--I believe there was never in infinity where God was wordless, fatherless, wisdomless, or powerless, such is the Christ of God.
---MIchael on 4/29/10


"Multitudes of other verses throughout both testaments detailing the trinity of God." Eloy

Cite one verse that "details" the trinity.
---scott on 4/29/10


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scott, even if a disser would sinfully cut out this specific verse in the New Testament detailing the trinity of God, there are still multitudes of other verses throughout both testaments detailing the trinity of God. So dissers, you can keep your imaginary johan comma, but we the redeemed by Christ and whom know our triune God will exalt his manifested threefold being now and ever always: Praise to the Father Jesus and praise to the Son Jesus and praise to the Holy Ghost Jesus. "You all call me The Lord, indeed you all say well, for I am. I am The Almighty. I am from above, I am not of this world: If you all believe not that I AM, you all will die in your sins."
---Eloy on 4/29/10


The Johannine Comma is read liturgically in the Orthodox Church.

So is the "lost ending of Mark," and the Pericope de Adultera.

In other words, the Orthodox Church accepts these passages as authentic.
---Cluny on 4/29/10


For I have shown from the Scriptures, that no one of the sons of Adam is as to everything, and absolutely, called God, or named Lord. But that He is Himself in His own right, beyond all men who ever lived, God, and Lord, and King Eternal, and the Incarnate Word, proclaimed by all the prophets, the apostles, and by the Spirit Himself, may be seen by all who have attained to even a small portion of the truth.--IRENUS(2nd century)--Against Heresies,Bk 3, Ch 19
Pick at the Word of God from the 4th century if you desire.
---micha9344 on 4/29/10


1 John 5:7,8

"The Comma Joanneum, 5:7-8 of the Vg. is missing in all Gk MSS except four later MSS and in the Oriental versions. It is quoted by no Church father before Priscillian (380). There is no doubt that it is a gloss on the preceding lines, probably added in Africa or the Iberian peninsula." Dictionary of the Bible, The Bruce Publishing Company, 1965, p.445.

"The famous interpolation after 'three witnesses' is not printed even in RSVn, and rightly. It...is never used in the early trinitarian controversies. No repectable Greek MS contians it. Appearing first in a late 4th cent. Latin text, it entered the Vulgate and finally the NT of Erasmus." Peake's Commentary, 1964
---scott on 4/29/10


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The trinity is found in both testaments. And the word "trinity" is indeed in the Bible, it is the greek word "treiseis", and it is found in I John 5:7,8. lit.Gk: "Because three being who bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and his Holy Ghost, and these the three in being: also three being who bear witness upon the earth, his Spirit, and his water, and his blood, and the triune (ie.Gk: treiseis) his in being." And Jesus gave us his Commandment to baptize souls in the trinity. And Jesus came and spoke to them saying: "Go you all therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."
---Eloy on 4/29/10


Cluny gives real words to my unedumacated drivel.

I like that. :~)
---aka_joseph on 4/28/10


\\I give you there are three persons in one purpose\\

The proper theological language for this is "three Persons of one Essence/Substance".
---Cluny on 4/28/10


You are right, Trinity is nowhere in the Bible but 1Jn 5:7 is:

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word [Jesus], and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

I give you there are three persons in one purpose. However, my children are all part of one family. We cannot exist as one if any are denied. We are not one because we are one in purpose, we are one because we are one.
---aka_joseph on 4/28/10


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\\As 'trinity' is not a Bible word (therefore a man-made belief) and neither is it a Bible teaching, the onus is on you to prove the trinity is true and Biblical.\\

The word BIBLE is not a Bible word, either, so the onus is on you to prove the word is Biblical.

Now what?
---Cluny on 4/28/10


As 'trinity' is not a Bible word (therefore a man-made belief) and neither is it a Bible teaching, the onus is on you to prove the trinity is true and Biblical.
---David8318 on 4/27/10

When did I say anything about the trinity?

You need to review what I have posted and what you have posted.

You posted and I quote "Jesus was not God incarnate".

I have given you several Scriptures that contradict that statement. Jesus IS God, proven by Scripture, spoken by God Himself. If you disagree, take it up with Him.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/28/10


"Truth is, Jesus Christ is not Almighty God, and not 'the Alpha and the Omega'."
---David8318 on 4/27/10
David this is NOT Truth. You must not be able to recognize truth so I will tell you.
I'll tell you what Jesus is not. With your views He is not your Saviour. This is something you need to get right even if you get other things wrong.
---Elder on 4/28/10


\\It makes one wonder who has the antichristian virus affecting their reasoning and interpretation of the Word of God.\\

The proper name of this virus is Arianism.
---Cluny on 4/28/10


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It looks like the blog through many words in scripture shows that either:
David8318 is correct and we, from all realms of Christianity, are wrong about Jesus.
or
We are right about who Jesus is and David8318 is in error.
It makes one wonder who has the antichristian virus affecting their reasoning and interpretation of the Word of God.
Since there were only 2 votes supporting the Arian view that Jesus was not equal to God in essence, and over 248 votes for same essence and that those from all over christianity were there in 264AD, the reconstructed 1870AD view appears to be just as false.
David8318, you may now start with the neo-platonic hellenistic accusations at this time.
---MIchael on 4/27/10


---David8318 on 4/27/10 Your theology is really warped. Jesus is God, believers in Christ Jesus know this. How? "Flesh and blood has not revealed this to us, but My Father who is in heaven" is what Jesus told Peter when Jesus asked, "Who do you say that I am?"

Obviously David, truth hasn't been revealed to you and you are speaking from your carnal mind. A carnal mind cannot understand the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him and EVERYTHING you've said David is FOOLISH and a LIE.
Jesus is God...He said, I and the Father are ONE. Only Holy Spirit can REVEAL truth to you David....your theology is really messed up, you should be banned from posting on this Christian board.
---Donna5535 on 4/27/10


David....Jesus has always existed. He is the eternal Word of God. He is the creator of all that exists.
There was never a time when He was not.
---JIM on 4/27/10
Amen!!

AKA Joseph, brother I liked your post too!!!!
I mean wow.
---miche3754 on 4/27/10


First Yes JESUS is GOD. On earth He was GOD and man. So he recieved the HOLY SPIRIT as a man as an example for us. But He had been and will always be GOD also.

The problem is we cannot fully understand this statment. So I will wait till I get to heaven and ask JESUS. Till then it does not matter.
---Samuel on 4/27/10


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It is obvious that trinitarians have not been taught what 'Christ' means. To be 'Christ', one is not eternal by definition. Trinitarians are not taught the truth about 'Christ' for obvious reasons.

If Jesus is God, then God is Christ. This is ridiculous. The trinity is a virus downloaded by Satan into peoples minds to infect the true understanding of Christ and the power of his death and resurrection.

If Jesus is God, why did he need to be baptised in HolySpirit?

Who anointed God with HolySpirit?

How can Christ be 'the Alpha and the Omega'? Revelation says the Almighty God YHWH, Jehovah is.

Truth is, Jesus Christ is not Almighty God, and not 'the Alpha and the Omega'.
---David8318 on 4/27/10


Mark Eaton, I don't have to prove the trinity is wrong. It IS wrong. You cannot be a trinitarian and a Christian, they are a contradiction in terms.

As 'trinity' is not a Bible word (therefore a man-made belief) and neither is it a Bible teaching, the onus is on you to prove the trinity is true and Biblical.

Colossians 2:9 discusses the 'divine quality' that dwells in Jesus.

John 10:30, in context shows Jesus and his Father are at 'one' in unity and purpose, not in person.

Nowhere is the HolySpirit described as the 'Alpha and Omega'. How can Christ be 'Alpha and Omega'? Only Almighty God Jehovah can be.
---David8318 on 4/27/10


David....Jesus has always existed. He is the eternal Word of God. He is the creator of all that exists.
There was never a time when He was not.
---JIM on 4/27/10


Elder,
Again I am not mormon so please do not address me as one.I use to attend ,but no longer do,haven't been a member of their church since 2005!
---candice on 4/27/10


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//I cannot pretend that I read all of your wordy, word, words... BUT

1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word [Jesus], and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

What is the issue? What is tripping you up so bad? //

mima, these words were not intended for you. :~)
---aka_joseph on 4/27/10


Mima,

Jesus IS God fully.
He had the Holy Spirit in him when he was born.
Why do you think he had to die?
To release the Holy Spirit for it to indwell believers.
Before that, the Holy spirit could upon someone but NOT indwell them.
---miche3754 on 4/27/10


Jesus is God, Jesus always was, Jesus always is, and Jesus always will be God Almighty. The sky opening up and the dove descending upon Jesus and the voice speaking out of heaven were all given as supernatural signs not to Jesus, but for the people so that they would believe in him. When Jesus put on flesh it was not for himself, but for the people: when Jesus was born from the Holy Ghost rather than from Joseph's seed, this sign was for the people and not for himself: when Jesus walked on top of the water and raised the dead, even himself, these was not for himself but for the people.
---Eloy on 4/27/10


Jesus is the embodiment, as much as can be contained bodily, of Father's Spirit.
The corporeal presence of Father's incorporeal essence.
What John witnessed was confirmation, for him, as to who Jesus was.
As He said "I did not know Him, but that He should be revealed to Israel."
John was set apart as "a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe."
---Josef on 4/27/10


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I personally believe that Jesus was born with the Holy Spirit already in Him, since He was/is the Son of God. The Dove descending on Him at His baptism was a sign for John to know that He was the One for whom the world was waiting.
---tommy3007 on 4/27/10


Yes, John 1 is a bit odd.... I would assume Jesus always had the Holy Spirit, but something extra must have happened for John to say that, as in the description of Jesus' baptism

What extra happened I do not know, though
---peter3594 on 4/27/10


A mistake. Jesus already had the Holy Spirit.
---catherine on 4/26/10


David you need to reread what Cluny said then read the Bible. Cluny is completely right. It is too bad that you have not read or remember John chapter 1.
Candice you are as mixed up as ever. The Holy Spirit is not an "it." He is a person.
We see the Father, Holy Spirit and Jesus at the baptism. John confirms only what already is. Jesus is/was the Saviour from the foundation of the world.
Those of you who do not believe that Jesus is and always has been God have no Saviour. This means you are lost.
It is NOT as the Mormons say, "As he was I am and as he is I shall be." That is a complete lie from Satan and his workers.
---Elder on 4/26/10


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I cannot pretend that I read all of your wordy, word, words... BUT

1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word [Jesus], and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

What is the issue? What is tripping you up so bad?
---aka_joseph on 4/26/10


Jesus was not God incarnate.
---David8318 on 4/26/10

If you agree that the Bible is the spoken words of God, written down by men (2 Peter 1:21) then what you have blogged is contradicted by at least this verse:

John 20:27-28 "Then He said to Thomas, 'Reach here with your finger, and see My hands, and reach here your hand and put it into My side, and do not be unbelieving, but believing'. Thomas answered and said to Him, 'My Lord and my God!"

God the Father calls Jesus the Son, God.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/26/10


Jesus was not God incarnate.
---David8318 on 4/26/10

You are so determined to prove the trinity wrong, you miss the meaning of verses like this:

Col 2:9 "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form"

John 10:30 "I and the Father are one"

2 Peter 1:1 "Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:"

Rev 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty"
---Mark_Eaton on 4/26/10


\\Cluny's emotional attachment to the trinity is such that 'the trinity comes first, John's teaching comes second\\

John's teaching IS the Trinity!
---Cluny on 4/26/10


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Part 2
Imagine if the passages had said, "The Holy Spirit descended in Bodily form "as" a gorilla".
Many of our church symbols today would show a artistic rendering of a head plunging, upside-down gorilla.
Instead, we've got a head plunging up-side-down down dove??? Artistic yes... but doctrinally misleading.
The Holy Spirit descended! Not Dove or Gorilla!

Though Jesus, already conceived and born of the Holy Spirit 30 years earlier, He was anointed/clothed from head to toe with the Holy Spirit after the water baptism of John. Jesus was our best example of being born of the Spirit 1st and then separately anointed for service with the Holy Spirit.
See Acts Chapter2, Acts10:38-48 and Act19:1-2
---Legends on 4/26/10


//The scripture at John 1:32-34 show that Jesus was baptised by God in HolySpirit and became 'the Christ'.//

I do not know what you mean by Christ, but "Christ" is Latin for Savior. He did not become the Savior until He resurrected finishing the Plan of Salvation. It was actually a foreshadow of things to come.
---aka_joseph on 4/26/10


John's baptism in water was not Christian baptism. The death and resurrection of Christ had not yet occurred in order to be depicted by the baptism. John's baptism was SIMILAR to the OLD TESTAMENT oblations [washings] that SYMBOLIZED a cleaning of personal repentance on the part of a believer. Note: Jesus submitted to this baptism TO FULFILL ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS as God.....And behold, a voice out of the heavens said, "this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" [Matthew 4:17]. The answer to your question is a YES.
---catherine on 4/26/10


Also see Luke3:22.
Neither passage teaches that a dove descended on Jesus. This is a common error.
It reads, The Holy Spirit descended IN BODILY FORM "as" or as many translations read "like" a dove.
The bodily form was a HUMAN bodily form... not a Dove bodily form!
The way the (human)bodily form of the Holy Spirit descended was "as", or like, a dove descends.
John says that he saw The Holy Spirit rest and remain on Jesus... not a dove.
By the way, when doves descend, their heads are upright or closer to the heavens than they are to the Earth. Doves resemble angels descending from the skies FEET-FIRST(if you can imagine this). Doves don't swoop head first like many church symbols infer.
---Legends on 4/26/10


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John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ,
Galatians 1:8-9 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
---MIchael on 4/26/10


The trinity false teaching causes people to question the gospel. I hold Cluny's comment (4/26/10) as an example.

Cluny's emotional attachment to the trinity is such that 'the trinity comes first, John's teaching comes second. What would have been the point of anointing Jesus with HolySpirit, after all Jesus is God incarnate', says Cluny.

But of course, gospel writer John is right and Cluny is wrong. Jesus is not God or 'God incarnate'. As John points out, Jesus not being God was baptised in HolySpirit, thus becoming 'the Christ'. That was the whole point of Jesus' baptism which trinitarians are unable to fathom.
---David8318 on 4/26/10


\\But Jesus did not become 'the Christ' until his baptism. \\

Luke 2:

For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior Who IS [not will become] Christ the Lord.
---Cluny on 4/26/10


The Holy Spirit did not indwell and be sealed until after the ascension as evident at pentecost.
The Holy Ghost fell upon Jesus as in O.T.
This was a confirmation of who He is.
He was before the beginning.
There was not a time when God was fatherless, wordless, or wisdomless as some people would like you to believe.
John 8:58b I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Mal 3:6a For I [am] the LORD, I change not,
John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
---MIchael on 4/26/10


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If Jesus is God, why would he need to be baptised with HolySpirit?

Is God not the source of HolySpirit? (Ps.104:30)

Trinitarians will say 'Christ is eternal'. But Jesus did not become 'the Christ' until his baptism. This appears to be difficult for trinitarians to grasp because many trinitarians do not understand what 'Christ' means.

The scripture at John 1:32-34 show that Jesus was baptised by God in HolySpirit and became 'the Christ'.

John the baptiser was moved to say- 'And I have seen it, and I have borne witness that this one is the SON of God.'

Jesus was not God incarnate.
---David8318 on 4/26/10


He was conceived by the Holy Spirit so this question gets tricky.

I see the Water Baptism that John Baptised him with was symbolic. Had to be done to fulfill scripture.

Now when the skies opened up and the Dove descended I believe that's when Jesus was Baptised with the Holy Spirit, but the scholars on this board can better explain this.

Did you notice there's only one account of water baptism in Acts? I believe an exchange happened when Jesus arrived - water baptism then became Holy Ghost Baptism...again, the scholars can better expound on this.
---Donna5535 on 4/26/10


Being one of the Trinity Incarnate, what would have been the point?
---Cluny on 4/26/10


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