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Trials Due To Unbelief

What would you say if I said that all of our trials are brought on by our own insecurities, doubt, unbelief, etc., and it's our testings that are from God? Is that too far-fetched for some to believe?

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Catherine, I can not believe God delights in our suffering. I'm afraid you are seeing Ahab's teeth gleaming.
---fay on 6/21/10


Perhaps! Trials are brought on by God for a lot of reasons. I think He just enjoys it. We don't enjoy them. But, I believe God does. Sometime I can see His teeth gleaming in them.
---catherine on 6/20/10


atheist, You find differing opinions concerning Job's trials. Some say Job sinned & came out of the test when he repented. However,satan is the one who came to God, probably bragging about deceiving God's elect. Job was a perfect man & God knew Job would never turn away from Him, so God said, "Have you considered my servant, Job?" Perhaps it was more in line with trying to reach satan. No one really knows. The point is Job loved God so much NOTHING could turn his heart. That's the kind of love I want. Have you ever loved anyone that much? Wouldn't it be wonderful to be so loved? Well, that is how much God loves you, too! And I love you because He loves me.
---fay on 6/20/10


atheist--Certainly you must know that I do not give up reason. I couldn't if I wanted to, because God gave me that ability. I want things to make sense, but I don't always demand it. For humanly speaking, my reasoning power has limitations.

If I couldn't account for electricity, would it fail to exist? Would the light switch fail to turn on the lights if I didn't know how it works?

There are some things for which there is no explation (or none that "makes sense" to me). No scientist gives an answer. I don't say, "I can't explain it... it seems there is no rational explation, therefore it doesn't exist." How empty and devoid of meaning, life would be for me, if I did.
Who can live without FAITH?
---Donna66 on 5/4/10


atheist-- //The tooth fairy gives comfort to children, but eventually we must learn to endure pain without a promise of a reward//

What reward was Job Promised? what reward was Job expecting? Read the book...he had no reason to expect any reward. How was he able to keep his faith in God?
---Donna66 on 5/4/10




Miche, if god, omnipotent and omnipresent, was real, we would all wake up knowing what he wanted and we would all know the same thing/ atheist


God has already said what he wants from us.
LOVE and for us to LOVE each other.

But as the Bible says, men(and women) have become lovers of themselves so God has given them over to reprobates minds and allowed their consciences to be seared with a hot iron.

Think on this, what happens if you do something bad over and over even though your heart tells you it is wrong? You become immune to your own feelings.
---miche3754 on 5/4/10


Atheist,Quite true and an additional overview to the story is that Job believed he was self righteous,the full story speaks of in contrast to the story beginning,where he did all the right things for all the right reasons to serve God but he faces incredible odds to continue living and up until the end of story figure out why he is being treated this way.He failed to realize until the end of story his suffering was not God administered but from natural events,like what we normally experience today and also believing that God should not cause him to suffer because he acted righteously,a self righteous attitude(it should not happen to me because I done my part).
Job's discovery was not to blame God but to get his assistance.
---earl on 5/4/10


Donna, yes I can understand how this can be a comfort. But I think the comfort is often not enough reward for the cost of giving up reason. The tooth fairy gives comfort to children, but eventually we must learn to endure pain without a promise of a reward.

Miche, if god, omnipotent and omnipresent, was real, we would all wake up knowing what he wanted and we would all know the same thing.

Earl, the moral of the story of Job is that he should never give up and we should always do what is right. We should struggle in the face of all adversity. It is a story, a good story if you treat the characters as characters and not real historical figures. In real life, even the best sometimes suffer and fail. But if you quit, it's over.
---atheist on 5/4/10


The God and Satan contract(contract with Satan)was,I believe, pasted in front of the life of Job by an unknown, years after it came out in written form.
Does God make contracts with evil?I do not believe it. If so God will be equally evil-his hands are bloody by giving the evil one power to administer greater evil in God's name for it is God who gives the power.Did God not say by contract I will let you torture Job, kill his family and let his friends taunt him to the point of suicide only by giving power to Satan?
This is why I believe this specific section of Job was an add on.If the first of the story were true then God is encouraging evil -Satan.
---earl on 5/4/10


atheist--- There is more to a man than intellect. There is more to God than logic. You don't understand FAITH, so you cannot understand this.
But if you believe God is almighty and altogether Holy...you may have lots of questions, but you don't insist He explain to you, His every action and motive.
And HE is not obliged to provide an answer for everything you do not understand.

You don't understand how this can be a comfort?
It is a comfort to entrust your concerns to Someone infinitely more wise and powerful than than yourself
---Donna66 on 5/4/10




Atheist,

Did God behave arbitrarily when he was hanging on the cross?

Was he being cruel to us when he allowed people to crucify him?

God's cruelness as you call it, is because HIS creation refuses to recognize him!
They treat each other like crap and ask questions constantly about if he is real or not when they should be able to tell God is real just from waking up in the morning.
God created us to love HIM and to love each other. BUT no, man has to be independant and think they know better than God does.
---miche3754 on 5/4/10


Larry, do you know what a pagan was?
---atheist on 5/3/10


Donna,

I am trying to figure out if anyone's beliefs about god have any internal consistency, or if each of you just make it up as you go along. There certainly is no clear moral lesson in the story of Job unless it is that you you love god no matter what. but as far as god in this story, and every other one in the bible, god behaves arbitrarily and often quite cruely. How do you get comfort or guidance out of that?
---atheist on 5/3/10


But Miche, if god is all powerful and knowing why would he care about some petty challenge by satan? -Atheist.

Atheist, its your soul God cares about, and he sacrificed his son to defeat Satan and the challenge for which you display phony concern. Your not even true to yourself.



Its a lame act of being consumed by something you don't believe which doesn't even make sense to Pagans.

You keep asking because deep down inside you know God is real but you are too chicken to do anything other than repeat the circular wasteful inquires.

If you really knew there was no God we'd never hear from you again. You're still here. No one here wants to trade places with you so we're praying for you.
---larry on 5/3/10


Athiest, just because God CAN do something, doesn't mean he SHOULD do something.

We are given freewill.
AND it comes down to trust and faith.

It is difficult to explain these things when you don't even believe in God.
If you can't see him in HIS creation, how do you expect me to be able to show him to you?

You can't. You have already made upi your mind he isn't real. You don't see because you don't want to see.
---miche3754 on 5/3/10


athiest, I must ask you WHY you keep wanting to discuss questions about God when you are an athiest? LOL I am laughing over here, sorry.

Secondly - the answer to your questions to Miche is this:

"He always causes us to Triumph through Christ Jesus." God wanted to show satan Job was faithful to HIM, not to satan.

AND
For this purpose was the Son of God manifest, to DESTROY the works of the evil one, that would be satan.

God doesn't ignore challenges, He rises to the challenges and gets the Victory! Trying to show satan who's boss...that's why.
---Donna5535 on 5/3/10


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why bother wasting time with this sadistic moron, satan?
---atheist on 5/3/10

Please print,

To prove that God has control to the moron who won't listen, which is satan.

He keeps on thinking he has some kind of power. God doesn't have to prove anything to us, but he does to satan.
Remember we are dealing with a being who thinks he is equal to God !(when he isn't. No one is equal to God!)
---miche3754 on 5/3/10


But Miche, if god is all powerful and knowing why would he care about some petty challenge by satan? Why wouldn't he just say, go away don't bother me now, and then send him away? God should be able to do that! And if he did, Job his ever faithful adherent, would not have suffered. If god is all knowing, then he would have known how the story was going to come out anyway, so why bother wasting time with this sadistic moron, satan?
---atheist on 5/3/10


The question here insinuates that trials are due only to our own weaknesses. No. Not necessarily.
Hbr 12:6 -- For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. Jesus, himself, was sent into the wilderness for 40 days of testing, even though He was completely holy.

---Donna66 on 5/1/10

Amen !!!
And the chastening is so God can remove all the bad stuff out of us.
He says he refines us like Gold so that we can shine for him and in him, by him.
Take a look at the process for purifying Gold. That is what God lets us go through.
---miche3754 on 5/3/10


We have trials because our Savior "suffered" trials, i.e. the "fellowship of his sufferings."

From Noah to Job to Jonah to Samuel to David, the journeys and trials of the Patriarchs prove your postulate is in error. Trials are not all results of unbelief.

God bless.
---larry on 5/2/10


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But it still remains that god allowed satan to torture Job to satisfy god's own vanity. To me that's really quite sick.
---atheist on 4/30/10

You are looking at it the wrong way.
God is not vain at all and has nothing to prove.
Satan came to him, remember? Satan challenged God.
He said "okay, but I am telling you, he loves me, I am still in powere and this is as far you can go, and when you are finished I will give it all back to him".
Scripture says that Satan is like a roaring lion SEEKING whom he may devour. Keep that in mind.
Donna55, you are welcome sis!
---miche3754 on 5/3/10


Donna66:

Yes, Job did get back twice what he lost. Still, I would not want to have been his first wife or any of his first children. They were killed to prove a point (over something that wasn't Job's fault, and wasn't their fault either), but they didn't get any kind of recompense for it the way Job did.
---StrongAxe on 5/2/10


Trav,

So I am a dog am I?
---atheist on 4/30/10

Your not a sheep. We may both be dogs. If I'm a dog, I know what constitutes a good dog. He obeys/respects the master. I'll be the best dang dog I can be. Fetch?... you bet,wag wag....keep and enemies at bay...grrrrrr,bark,bark.
Now you could be a goat...but, most scriptural identification marks are portraying .... "dog". A wild dog.
Interestingly,atheistic wild dogs eventually pack up. To pull down the weak.
Stand outside yourself, and using scripture provided and some you can find....are you? You'll recognize yourself when you get the courage to look.
---Trav on 5/2/10


He made a some thing very good. But He put choice into the mix. He did not want robots saying 'I love You' meaninglessly. He wanted for His creation to truly love Him. But the other side had to be there also, so man choses wrongly. But Job was different.
It wasn't that God was showing off what He had made, but who Job was, as opposed to who Satan is. The close relationship between God and Job is what God was 'showing off'.
Rom 8:38-39 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
---micha9344 on 5/1/10


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What you believe is what gets you through trials.

Only One belief gets you through the trials of this world unto life eternal-Christ.
If life eternal is not your goal-then you rely on your own-self wisdom.

All TRUE wisdom comes from God-your self knowledge is challenged-His wisdom-alone stands-He gets the Glory.
---char on 5/1/10


But the winner in the end was Job. He was given back twice what he lost! In addition he attained a greater knowledge of God and greater humility

He knew God was behind his suffering, but refused to defame God. "Though He slay me yet shall I trust Him" Job 13:15, This high standard of faith can only be acquired through hardship.

The question here insinuates that trials are due only to our own weaknesses. No. Not necessarily.
Hbr 12:6 -- For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. Jesus, himself, was sent into the wilderness for 40 days of testing, even though He was completely holy.
---Donna66 on 5/1/10


#2 you can read the rest

There is blessing in being a dog that believes.
---aka_joseph on 5/1/10


\\a vain god takes the bet with satan and also the tortured and almost complete destruction of Job, all that he loved, had, and sadistically even his health.\\

atheist, you're just assuming that God is vain. You've offered no proof.

And you know what you do to yourself when you assume.
---Cluny on 5/1/10


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Miche,

So god allowed satan to perform destructuve testing on Job, because God was showing off what a good product god had made?
---atheist on 5/1/10


#1 Relax, atheist. I am a dog too!

...a Canaanite woman...came out and was crying, "Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David, my daughter is severely oppressed by a demon." He did not answer her a word. And his disciples came and begged him,"Send her away, for she is crying out after us." He answered (to her), "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." But she came and knelt before him,"Lord, help me." And he answered, "It is not right to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs." She said, "Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table." Then Jesus answered
---aka_joseph on 5/1/10


Trav,

So I am a dog am I?
---atheist on 4/30/10


Let's say you create something. It doesn't do exactly what you want it to do, but you've built variety into it. You create several. Someone comes by and asks why you created all this that don't do what you want them to do. You tell him check this one out, put it to the test, do whatever you want except break it and it will still do what pleases me. After all the punishment he puts your creation through, you have to go tweak it a bit to help it remember what it is supposed to do, but it done well through the test. Another one just doesn't please you at all, it's as if it thinks it has noone to answer to, noone programmed it, noone is hoping it will work properly. Wouldn't you show off the one that worked like it should?
---micha9344 on 4/30/10


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\\ But it still remains that god allowed satan to torture Job to satisfy god's own vanity. \\

Since God has no vanity, there is none to satisfy.
---Cluny on 4/30/10


Miche,

So. Okay, I think I got that from the beginning. But it still remains that god allowed satan to torture Job to satisfy god's own vanity. To me that's really quite sick.
---atheist on 4/30/10


How is it that 'god' the universe creator can be so easily manipulated into allowing the torture of Job just to satisfy god's vainty?...don't understand...
---atheist on 4/28/10

You belong to GOD whether you acknowlege or not. Along with the Jobs, pharoahs,Esaus's and assorted goats/dogs. Good dogs...know not to offend the master. Matthew 7:6
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs..
You don't understand because you're what scripture calls a "bad" dog. Not a wolf...because they eat sheep.
Exodus 11:7
But against any of the children of Israel shall not a dog move his tongue, against man or beast: that ye may know how that the LORD doth put a difference between the Egyptians and Israel.
---Trav on 4/30/10


Actually, God still is his boss.

Satan can only go as far as God will let him!
---miche3754 on 4/30/10


miche3754 - I love your response!!!! Amen sister, thanks for enlightening me!
---Donna5535 on 4/30/10


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catherine I think God was satan's boss too at one time, right?
---anon on 4/30/10

Actually, God still is his boss.

Satan can only go as far as God will let him!
---miche3754 on 4/30/10


catherine I think God was satan's boss too at one time, right?
---anon on 4/30/10


In the real world this happens to thousands daily with no good outcome in the offing.

Why your obsession with 'sludge'?
---atheist on 4/29/10

I know it does because it happened to me personally(not as severe but quite bad), won't get into details not enough space.
BUT because I trusted God, he has given me back what was taken 10 fold.
The "no good outcome" was probably because they weren't in Christ or wasn't listening to what God told them to do. I have guilty of that many times.

Don't have obsession with sludge.
Just tired of scientist thinking that is where we came from. You know, primordial ooze, lol.
---miche3754 on 4/30/10


unbelief will certainly separate you from God,but trials are just a fact of life. Yes God tests us,which are of God and from God we must discern.
---tom2 on 4/30/10


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This isn't going to be popular but it bears mentioning. Job is an OT picture of Jesus. The devil's best shot at him was his own defeat. The Word says so. To carry it a step further, in the new covenant we are told that "the devil goes about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour", but we are told to "resist him steadfastly in the faith" and to "submit to God, resist the devil and he must flee." The only place the devil has in your life is the place you give him. We have authority over him. God is not imputing sin, but you can open the door to the enemy and his destruction when you walk as an un-regenerate man. Give him an inch and he will take a mile.
---Linda on 4/29/10


"I have to please noone but God."
Have you perhaps forgotten about the second of the two pillars upholding all the Law and the Prophets, your fellowman? You do consider yourself when you say "I" and again "I", but do you consider your neighbour in that doing? "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself" and, if you don't, you do not love God either, 1 John 4:20 says.

You bet I don't understand...
---atheist on 4/28/10
I would expect of you to be unchanging in fortune as in misfortune, even if misfortune wears you out, that you maintain or regain your YOU. Such is the story of Job. Isaiah 54:15, what do you think, that God should not let them gather in the first place?
---Nana on 4/29/10


Miche,

Yes. I got to the end of the story, but the storyline still remains,---a vain god takes the bet with satan and also the tortured and almost complete destruction of Job, all that he loved, had, and sadistically even his health. Then Job gets his stuff back two fold. My children and the love I have for them is not just stuff to be replaced like a smashed car.

In the real world this happens to thousands daily with no good outcome in the offing.

Why your obsession with 'sludge'?
---atheist on 4/29/10


Every day I encounter many situations and circumstances which I have no control over except for my reactions. My flesh generally reacts first from old habits. My Spirit counteracts with the right reaction. Our testing comes everytime we have to react. I have learned that if I sow to the Spirit I will reap from the Spirit and if I sow to the flesh I will reap from the flesh. Every morning I pray for God to grant me the wisdom and knowledge to make the right decisions in every situation and circumstance. I also trust that He will cause all things to work together for good for me because I love Him. He is faithful even if I am faithless. Praise God!
---Bob on 4/29/10


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\\All-though testings are to strengthen the believer, they do come about by doubt, and unbelief\\

Tell us about Job's unbelief and doubt, catherine.

\\And one thing that I need to make perfectly clear, I have to please noone but God. And God is mine employer. I work for Him.\\

Yes, catherine, we know you say only what the voices tell you to say.

And no, we're not jealous because they don't speak to us.
---Cluny on 4/29/10


All-though testings are to strengthen the believer, they do come about by doubt, and unbelief. And yes testings are from God however, sometimes God will allow Satan to come in and do havoc with the believer. Some testings are very strong. You have not been in school until you have been to the school of the Holy Ghost..... And one thing that I need to make perfectly clear, I have to please noone but God. And God is mine employer. I work for Him.
---catherne on 4/29/10


He seems to be a vainglorius circus spectator in this story.

You bet I don't understand... /athiest

Did you get to the end of the story?
What did Job get?
A greater reward than what he started out with.

God is NOT like that. You think that way of God because YOU would be that way (nothing personal just part of the Human condition).
God proved that satan can't win, ever!
And that EVERYONE LIVES AND DIES UNTO THE LORD.
So, it is better to have faith in God than no faith at all.
Personally, I don't see how you walk around in this world and think ALL this came from either sludge or nothing. I don't understand how you CANNOT SEE GOD IN ALL THIS!
---miche3754 on 4/29/10


Cluny,

Thank you for the clarification.

But Catherine, then was Matthew possessed by satan and misquoted Jesus, or was Jesus possessed by satan when he said it?

I have always thought of statements such as these to be 'fundamental' to historical christian thought, but maybe I have been fooled and such statements are the work of satan.
---atheist on 4/28/10


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\\Catherine,

'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
Matthew 5:38-42, NIV

So was Matthew devil possessed when he spoke these words?
---atheist on 4/28/10\\

Actually, atheist, it was Jesus who said this.

Matthew only recorded them later.
---Cluny on 4/28/10


Miche,

'God' and 'satan' essentially bet each other that if 'god' allows, 'satan' can apply increasingly cruel tests to Job, to see if Job still loves 'god'. It seems clear that 'god' in this story is maniacally egotistical to even allow this to happen and certainly doesn't give a whit for Job.

How is it that 'god' the universe creator can be so easily manipulated into allowing the torture of Job just to satisfy god's vainty?

He seems to be a vainglorius circus spectator in this story.

You bet I don't understand...
---atheist on 4/28/10


To the those who don't know God, yes, they would be considered crazy.
BUT, Did God actually let Abraham sacrifice Isaac?
No, it was only a test of his faith.
God still does that even though not as harsh.
Read the book of Job and tell me if you think Job was crazy to still bless the Lord even after he had lost everything and was stuck with leprosy?
He still loved God.
The thing you have to understand is this.
Everyone lives and dies unto God. Whether you are saved or not. And everyone will receive their reward for the life they have lead on this wonderful planet.
The question you should ask yourself is this- sin worth going to hell for?
---miche3754 on 4/28/10


atheist, it's obvious you do not know the Loving Father God that we know.

Why would God test someone? Because He can and wants to trust that person so He can do mighty things through them - like when he used Moses to lead His people out of Egypt. He wants to see what people are made of, can He trust them, can He use them for mighty miracles?

Abraham did not lie to Isaac when he told Isaac God would provide the sacrifice. He believed what he told his son.

Abraham believed that God was going to raise Isaac back from the dead. Man's ways and thoughts atheist are NOT God's ways, God's ways are HIGHER than man's ways, but you don't seem to want to accept that. By the way, that's what got the devil thrown out of hell.
---Donna5535 on 4/28/10


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Catherine,

'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
Matthew 5:38-42, NIV

So was Matthew devil possessed when he spoke these words?
---atheist on 4/28/10


Welllll, when God gives you an order. You don't think about it, because, Satan will talk you out of obeying God. You just do it....Just like Abraham. God is never going to tell you something to do that is wrong in His eyes, not man's eyes. His eyes, God's eyes. And besides, God is the only person who knows what's right. I am serious! if it weren't for God we would allow the devil to stump all over us thinking that we are turning the other cheek. And, anyhow, in Abraham's case it was only a test, "Do not lay a hand on the lad". My God said.
---catherine on 4/28/10


Miche,

So I reread the story.

My questions remain the same as before:

Why is a loving 'god' so vain as to require a test such as this? Why would 'god' demand that an innocent be slaughtered, and whose death by his own father's hand would cause so much grief?

And why did Abraham lie to Isaac about 'god' providing the sacrifice? Was that just so that he didn't want to fess up about what he was about to do?

This is hardly a story about 'god' that I would tell children. It would give them nigtmares.

Wouldn't anyone doing this today be considered crazy?
---atheist on 4/28/10


Atheist,
The things of God are foolishness to those who do not believe.

And you do not believe so you think what Abraham did with Isaac was foolishness.

Try reading the story and you will understand a little of what Steven is saying.

Otherwise, you will continue to think us foolish.
By the way, your unbelief is what will send you to hell.
In the words of my baby brother.. "I would rather believe God is real and find out later he isn't than to NOT believe and find out God is real and burn for eternity".
---miche3754 on 4/28/10


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Steveng,

Seriously, if god told you to bind up you child and prepare him to be sacrificed would you even think twice about calling for help because you knew you mentally delusional and you were afraid you might hurt your child?

And if you neighbor sacrificed his son to god in his back yard and you were the only one who knew it, would you call the police, or go over and tell him that it was okay, and it was just between him and god and you.

Seriously.
---atheist on 4/28/10


Cluny you are very welcome!

Steveng,
I really enjoyed your last post too.
So true, so true.
---miche3754 on 4/28/10


The ultimate trial, the ultimate test of your faith, is when you are told by God to sacrifice your child.

The OT is just full of godly men and women who, through their own aversities, boldly overcame their trials. Besides Abraham, all the trials in the OT is to be like child's play compared to what is to shortly come to pass. Prepare yourself. Put on the whole armor of God. Read the bible and pray often for yourself and your family. Do an online KJV bible search for the words "each other," "one another," and "comfort" for living a christian life is a 24/7 lifestyle - not a once a week pep talk be denominational churches.
---Steveng on 4/27/10


Rob, are you referring to this part?

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. 16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

So are you saying it is man's fault when he falls into a trial?
---Donna5535 on 4/27/10


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I agree with those saying trials strengthen. We are helped greatly in trials if we remember that whatever type of pain we are suffering, or load we are carrying, all of humanity, saints or sinners, are suffering similarly. In our pain, we are to pray for all those others.
---Geraldine on 4/27/10


Donna, the answer to your question can be found in James 1:2-18.
---Rob on 4/27/10


\\Cluny,
I just want to say I really like your answers on this.
They are very true.\\

Thank you, miche.
---Cluny on 4/27/10


our trials...by our OWN insecurities, doubt & etc?

LUKE 18:15-16
people were bringing the children but his OWN disciples were PREVENTING them.

LUke 18:37-42
blind man cried out but the people were told him to SHUT UP!
christ said YOUR FAITH HAS HEALED YOU!
Luke 13:10-17
SYNAGOGUE LEADER (pastor, priest) was PREVENTING THE HEALING OF THE CRIPPLED WOMAN FOR 18 YEARS.

fears & doubt is GENERATED in the church bec. many are shortsighted, arrogant & self righteous. the 1st thing that christians do is to point to 'sin' or 'that's not biblical'.

No wonder many have doubts, fears, etc. bec. you hear quotes from christians / pastors who does not know & understand other people's suffering.
---jim on 4/27/10


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Actually, the stronger your faith the more stuff comes against you. In Job, for example, Satan tried to BREAK JOB. He failed, HA, HA, HA.AHHH.....Lord, we believe in You.
---catherine on 4/27/10


Trials are soul searching examinations that believers are faced with, allowed as opportunities to prove ourselves to ourselves concerning the faith of Jesus that we profess to hold, and exercise.
"So that the proof of [our] faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ." 1Pe 1:7 NASB
Being tested, biblically, is simply another way of saying being tempted.
"Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God", for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed." Jam 1:13,14
---joseph on 4/27/10


Cluny,
I just want to say I really like your answers on this.
They are very true.
I have been through a lot in the past 3 to 4 years. All because God is showing me how to depend on him and that "ALL things work together for good for those who love God, who are called--according to HIS purpose."
just like you said.
I am still going through BUT I am hanging on and trusting God through it ALL.
God has even helped me quite smoking in all the mess.
I agree that trials are to perfect us so that we can stand and have a testimony. To be able to say "Look what God has brought me through".
What we go through may help someone else who is going through.
---miche3754 on 4/27/10


Trials are for strengthening the believer.
---catherine

Exactly. During 20 plus years of my adult life I was an atheist. There is no such thing as trials for an atheist.

Once I accepted The Lord into my life, the trials began. I had thought that once I accepted Christ, life would be easier. How wrong I was.

But I have learned that each trial prepares me for something else in my life. Trials only bring me closer to The Lord.
---Gary on 4/26/10


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there are trials in this life because there is sin in this world,we have trials to test us and strenghten us,and teach us.
---tom2 on 4/27/10


unbelief will separate us from God.
---tom2 on 4/27/10


Our trials/tribulations are things that Jesus said we would suffer in John 16:33, because we are His followers. He told us that we should not fear when these trials come because He has overcome the world. When we have troubles, we should always check our own hearts to see if there may be some fault in ourselves or if it is just the normal trials that will happen.
---tommy3007 on 4/27/10


Trials are for strengthening the believer.
---catherine on 4/26/10


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\\Would a 'trial' include such things an earthquake in Haiti or a hurricane in New Orleans?
---atheist on 4/26/10\\

To elaborate what you said, how many people here, should they suffer loss from such catastrophes, would humble themselves under God's righteousness? Or would they simply say the devil was coming against them?

I know one woman who would always claim this, though most of what she suffered (including a marriage that disintegrated just after 3 months) was the direct result of her own poor choices.

in any case, Jesus said something about this matter in the first verses of Luke 13.
---Cluny on 4/26/10


Would a 'trial' include such things an earthquake in Haiti or a hurricane in New Orleans?
---atheist on 4/26/10


Perhaps our various trials can show us how much we need to increase our conscious dependence upon God, rather than taking Him for granted.

It may or may not be accurate to say that all our sorrows are directly ordered by God, but we CAN say with Joseph of the Old Testament that whatever some people mean for evil, God can mean for good.

And as St. Paul said, "ALL things work together for good for those who love God, who are called--according to HIS purpose."
---Cluny on 4/26/10


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