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Is Purgatory A Biblical Concept

In the middle ages, there was the idea [in the Catholic church only, I think] of a place called purgatory - where people are purified. Can anyone find any scriptural evidence for such an idea?

Moderator - Not Canon scripture; however it was a great money maker for the church.

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francis:

If you spend your entire life working towards a goal, and then see that goal totally destroyed by fire (or anything else, for that matter), leaving you nothing, wouldn't you consider that to be a fairly severe punishment?

Societies throughout time have used forfeiture (of reputation, rights, assets, freedoms, even life) as effective forms of punishment.
---StrongAxe on 5/14/10


\\But what gets me is that you accuse him of altering the truth, in which he did not, and the RCC and Eastern Churches have altered many passages for the benefit of their traditions\\

MarkV, please name ONE passage of the Scripture, giving BCV, that has been altered by an Eastern Church, and name WHICH Eastern Church did so and when.

You made the accusation. It's up to YOU to prove it.
---Cluny on 5/14/10


I guess you're a sad-you-see, francis.

Acts 23:8 For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both.
---Cluny on 5/14/10


Ruben, you again misapplied 1 Cor. 3:10-15. This passage is refering to the time of the Judgment Seat of Christ. Verse 13, "each one's work will become clear, for the "Day" will declared it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is"
This is the judgment Seat of Christ which is for believers only. There is no condemnation there. All the bad stuff we had will be burn. "The Day" refers to the time of the Judgment Seat of Christ, "For we must all appear before the judgment Seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad." 2 Cor. 5:10.
---MarkV. on 5/13/10


If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shal be saved : yet so as by fire ."
---Ruben on 5/13/10

No punishment here. His work will be burned up, but what of him? he is saved where is the punishment?

CONSEQUENCES MAYBE punishment NADA
---francis on 5/13/10

yet so as by fire ,I don't know about you but saved by fire is punishment enough....
---Ruben on 5/13/10




Ruben puts Luther on trial, Cluny sure has the nerve to say that Luther falsefied the Bible by adding "alone" to Romans 3:28. While none of my Bibles have alone in them, if the word was added by him when he translated the Scriptures, it was to help the interpretation since the next words were, " apart from the deeds of the law" if they are apart from the deeds of the law (works) then the passage means Justified by faith alone.
But what gets me is that you accuse him of altering the truth, in which he did not, and the RCC and Eastern Churches have altered many passages for the benefit of their traditions. So I do think you have a nerve to complain about Luther.
---MarkV. on 5/13/10


Ruben, your answers are not valid. 2 Samuel cannot help you. Strongaxe gave you a good answer. The Lord graciously forgave David's sin, but the inevitable temporal consequence of sin were experience by him. Forgiveness does not always remove the consequences of sin in this life. Only in the life to come. Although the sins of David legally demanded his death (v. 5) the Lord graciously released David from the required death penalty. There are events where the Lord requires death and others where He shows grace and spared the sin. The passage has nothing to do with Luther or Purgatory.
---MarkV. on 5/13/10


If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shal be saved : yet so as by fire ."
---Ruben on 5/13/10

No punishment here. His work will be burned up, but what of him? he is saved where is the punishment?

CONSEQUENCES MAYBE punishment NADA
---francis on 5/13/10


but no temporary punishment.

But once you die, you next event is either reward or hot foot.
---francis on 5/13/10


(1 Cor 3:10-15 )

:For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble,

Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it , because it shall be revealed by fire, and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shal be saved : yet so as by fire ."
---Ruben on 5/13/10


\\So show me please in the bible where anything other than thebreath which god gave survives
---francis on 5/13/10\\

Something clearly survived the death of Lazarus for him to respond to Christ's command to come forth.

The same for the son of the widow of Nain, the Synagogue president's daughter, Tabitha whom Peter raised from the dead, and so on.

John 5:28
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

Since dead bodies do not hear, WHAT is there that will hear the voice of God?

You can believe what you want to believe, francis.

I'll believe the Bible.
---Cluny on 5/13/10




Do you really believe there's not something in a human being that survives physical death, francis?

If you don't, then you're not believing what's written in the Bible.
---Cluny on 5/13/10

Well only the BREATH that God gave survives. Nothing in man, nothing of man survives.

So show me please in the bible where anything other than thebreath which god gave survives
---francis on 5/13/10


\\And if Luther had his way, he also wanted 1 Peter, Revelation, Hebrews and James thrown out...
---Ruben on 5/13/10\\

It's interesting.

Luther appealed to the Pope. The pope said he was wrong.

Luther appealed to a council. The council said he was wrong.

Luther appealed to the Orthodox. The Orthodox said he was wrong.

Luther appealed to the Bible. When the Bible said he was wrong, he denied that the books that contradicted him were scripture.

And finally, when all else failed, he falsified his translation of Romans 3:28, inserting the word "alone", saying simply, "Dr. Luther will have it so."
---Cluny on 5/13/10


Maybe you mean there are consequences for sin, even for forgiven sin.

but no temporary punishment.
There may be chastening: like the 70 year exil.

But once you die, you next event is either reward or hot foot.
---francis on 5/13/10


Sin usually has a temporal component. Even if the sin is remitted, the temporal component usually is not. If you drink and rot your liver, you may repent and be forgiven, but you still have a rotten liver. If you embezzle, you may repent and be forgiven, but you will still go to jail, and you still have to pay the money back. Even if you injure a person in some way, and that person forgives you, the damage caused remains - the consequences of the sin don't go away.
---StrongAxe on 5/13/10


The main reason is the idea that one must pay the "temporal punishment due to sin," even if the eternal penalty is forgiven.

Sorry, but either our sins are forgiven, or they are NOT forgiven. If our sins are forgiven, then ALL punishment is remitted.

---Cluny on 5/12/10

Scripture shows us that there is temporal punishment due to sin. Even those who were forgiven. Example 2 samuel 12:13-14:

"David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the LORD." And Nathan said to David, "The LORD also has put away your sin, you shall not die. Nevertheless, because by this deed you have utterly scorned the LORD, the child that is born to you shall die."
---Ruben on 5/13/10


Ruben, read your history, those books were not cannonize as inspired, neither were many others. They contradict real inspired books. What Luther did was to remove them which the RCC had put in on their own.
---MarkV. on 5/13/10

And if Luther had his way, he also wanted 1 Peter, Revelation, Hebrews and James thrown out...Reading Anti-Catholic materials is not reading History. So tell me Mark when was the bible canonize and by whom?
---Ruben on 5/13/10


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Rom 8:34-39 Who [is] he that condemneth? [It is] Christ that died...is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long, we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
---micha9344 on 5/13/10


MarkV, thanks for the studied biblical and historical research in the true understanding of show thyself approved.

Oh, do we suffer for the lack of knowledge.
---larry on 5/13/10


Ruben, read your history, those books were not cannonize as inspired, neither were many others. They contradict real inspired books. What Luther did was to remove them which the RCC had put in on their own.
---MarkV. on 5/13/10


\\DIE MEANS DIE

THE end of your life until Jesus returns\\

Do you really believe there's not something in a human being that survives physical death, francis?

If you don't, then you're not believing what's written in the Bible.
---Cluny on 5/13/10


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Genesis 2:17 for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Surely DIE!
Not surely be alive in purgatory
Not surely have your soul ascend to heaven
Not surely you will have a second change

DIE MEANS DIE

THE end of your life until Jesus returns

To truely decide if this purgatory is biblical we must know what scripture says happens at the moment of death

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward, for the MEMORY of them is forgotten.

Ecclesiastes 9:10 there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
---francis on 5/12/10


\\There are many reasons why the Roman doctrine of Purgatory is wrong, but what you're saying about is NOT what the doctrine says.

---Cluny on 5/11/10

Please, give me some reasons?
---Ruben on 5/11/10\\

The main reason is the idea that one must pay the "temporal punishment due to sin," even if the eternal penalty is forgiven.

Sorry, but either our sins are forgiven, or they are NOT forgiven. If our sins are forgiven, then ALL punishment is remitted.

Such is the Orthodox teaching.
---Cluny on 5/12/10


Cluny: I'm not Catholic, but I had taken purgatory to be a place where our souls are cleaned, after death. As for changing our mind, I have no idea.

PS: I don't really accept purgatory, but cannot be sure - that passage in 1 Peter is certainly a possibility
---peter3594 on 5/12/10


MarkV.* Ruben, you said, when Donna mentioned purgatory was not in the Bible,
"But it is 2 Maccabees 12:39-42,44-45. You need to ask why you don't have this book"
We don't have that book because it was not inspired by the Holy Spirit. It was included by the RCC and contradicts verses in Scripture the very reason it was not a part of the Bible.

No Mark, you don't have it because of Martin Luther took it out in the 15th century. And yes the RCC included the book along with the rest of the books of the Bible at Her regional councils AD 382,393,397.
---Ruben on 5/12/10


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Ruben, you said, when Donna mentioned purgatory was not in the Bible,
"But it is 2 Maccabees 12:39-42,44-45. You need to ask why you don't have this book"
We don't have that book because it was not inspired by the Holy Spirit. It was included by the RCC and contradicts verses in Scripture the very reason it was not a part of the Bible.
For those who want to add their own traditions, it is a book they can use to justify what they do with their rituals. It made the church rich. Sixtus IV built the chapel named after himself in which all popes are now elected. It was in the area of indulgences that Sixtus showed a touch of genius. He was the first pontiff to decide that they could be applied to the dead.
---MarkV. on 5/11/10


There are many reasons why the Roman doctrine of Purgatory is wrong, but what you're saying about is NOT what the doctrine says.

---Cluny on 5/11/10

Please, give me some reasons?
---Ruben on 5/11/10


I am 100% certain that Jesus did not preach to anyone athis death.
I am 100% certain, that those who are dead are indeed dead, andnot in a holding state.


The BIBLE says that the dead have no memory, no thoughs, no love, no hate, no wisdom, no knowledge.

When people die, they are truely dead.
---francis on 5/11/10


Is Purgatory a Biblical concept? NO, its a lie straight from the pit of Hell that has crept into carnal denominations, principally in Rome.
Take heed.
---larry on 5/11/10


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Donna5535* Purgatory is a man-made term, it's no where mentioned in the bible.

But it is 2 Maccabees 12:39-42,44-45. You need to ask why you don't have this book!

Donna5535* Just like praying to Mary is idolatry. Praying to saints is worse than idolatry, it's blasphemy.

Bible tell us "The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."(James 5:16) Who are more righteous than those in Heaven?

Donna5535 * Meaning my Catholic friends would not taste a piece of meat on a Friday during lent, yet both of them were living in fornication and to them, that was okay to do. Doesn't make sense.

Only thing to do is pray for them!
---Ruben on 5/11/10


\\If there is no special place where you can change your mind after death, why do some people teach that Jesus went to hell to preach to those who died in the flood?\\

Despite what people think and have claimed on this thread, The Roman Catholic Church has NEVER taught that Purgatory is a place where you can 'change your mind after death."

There are many reasons why the Roman doctrine of Purgatory is wrong, but what you're saying about is NOT what the doctrine says.

And as I've said elsewhere, "What you say about XYZ is mistaken" is NOT the same thing as saying, "I agree 100% with XYZ and am defending it."
---Cluny on 5/11/10


Francis: Indeed, that comment does suggest something like purgatory... preaching to those who were in prison

It is just a concenpt that remains [from a Biblical side] very little understood, as are many things that are mentioned only once in the Bible

So while I will not disagree with anyone who considers purgatory Biblical, I have to remain rather uncertain myself
---peter3594 on 5/11/10


If there is no special place where you can change your mind after death, why do some people teach that Jesus went to hell to preach to those who died in the flood?

If you do not believe in purgatory, how cna you believe that Jesus went to hell to preach to those in prison?


Is that not the same as purgatory?
If those in the flood got a second chance, after rejecting the holy spirit through the preaching of Noah, why should anyone else get a second change who reject the preaching of christ?
---francis on 5/11/10


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Ruben: I took that quote as 'uncertain' because it is also possible to mean a person who is accusing you, not NECESSARILY God

All the quotes you listed are likely, but only the one from 1 Peter can be said to be reasonably certain

I do not wish to disagree with you, I am only considering how likely it is, or how likely someone else is to agree/disagree with you

Blessings!
---peter3594 on 5/11/10


Purgatory is a man-made term, it's no where mentioned in the bible. Just like praying to Mary is idolatry. Praying to saints is worse than idolatry, it's blasphemy.

Just like doing lent by not eating meat on Friday's, yet living in fornication with a man or woman is not as big a sin as eating meat on Friday's during lent. Meaning my Catholic friends would not taste a piece of meat on a Friday during lent, yet both of them were living in fornication and to them, that was okay to do. Doesn't make sense.

There is no purgatory. Catholicism is a bunch of man-made rules.
---Donna5535 on 5/11/10


There is no special place where you can still change your mind or have someone pray for you to change your mind about Christ. You are dead and dead people cannot respond to the calling of Christ. You have to do that in this lifetime.
Either Christ paid the debt you owed for your sins with His blood on the cross before you die, or else you are still condemned by the curse you were born with. When Christ pays the debt we owe, it is once for all time.
Catholics believe that works saves, and if someone in purgatory does good works, I don't see how if he is dead.they are depending someone else pays the debt for their sins.
---MarkV. on 5/7/10


And you have claim many times, that you know what the Catholic Church teaches..really!
---Ruben on 5/11/10


Ruben: In reality, the only one that will hold water is the 1 Peter section, where we are told that Christ went and preached (which logically means there was hope for them, though we are not told who they were, or what hope there was).

---Peter3594 on 5/10/10

Matthew 5:25-26 Make friends quickly with your accuser, while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison, truly, I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny"

Peter, when does the Lord(Judge) put you in prison? And when are you going to pay our way out? It can not mean Heaven or Hell?
---Ruben on 5/10/10


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Ruben: In reality, the only one that will hold water is the 1 Peter section, where we are told that Christ went and preached (which logically means there was hope for them, though we are not told who they were, or what hope there was).

The 1 Cor section in rather vague, so I think we cannot use it as evidence, though one could use it as 'supporting evidence' for 1Peter.

The Luke passage, about Lazarus, while it suggests the two could see each other, does not imply the righ man could actually pass into heaven

But that one passage (1 Peter) is very interesting
---Peter3594 on 5/10/10


\\There is no scriptural evidence. Another point of wishful thinking. It is a man made concept.
---jody on 5/8/10\\

Just like the pre-trib rapture, or the formulas "accept Christ" or "personal savior," which are nowhere in the Bible.
---Cluny on 5/8/10


But it is Biblical:::
2 Maccabees 12:39-42,44-45
Matthew 5:25-26
Matthew 12:32
Luke 16:19-31
1 Peter 3:19-20
1 Corinthians 3:11-15
---Ruben on 5/10/10


\\There is no scriptural evidence. Another point of wishful thinking. It is a man made concept.
---jody on 5/8/10\\

Just like the pre-trib rapture, or the formulas "accept Christ" or "personal savior," which are nowhere in the Bible.
---Cluny on 5/8/10


There is no scriptural evidence. Another point of wishful thinking. It is a man made concept.
---jody on 5/8/10


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Steven, your reply is rediculous. If you can walk away then you never had what you thought you did. For faith comes from God and you can never let go of that genuine faith, whether its a little or a lot. If you have been inlighten with the word and walk away, you were never part of the body of Christ.
Again Scripture says,
"They went out from us (that is you walking away) but they were not of us, for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us, but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us" 1 John 2:19.
You walk away whenever you want and it will only proof you were never one of us. So go ahead and walk away. Manifest yourself.
---MarkV. on 5/8/10


\\it was RCC's wealth generator to steal from the poor and uneducated - seeing they forbid any of their subjects from reading Gods Word\\

1. I've already pointed out how much money is made by mass stipends.


2. The second statement is likewise totally false. Eg: The Douay/Rheims predates the King James Version. If you really want to know the truth about how the Roman Catholic Church encourages Bible reading, you can look it up in their sources, Rhonda. Do you have the courage?

However, some people seem to think "Thou shalt not bear false witness" has an exception that allows slander to be spread about Roman Catholics or anyone else they don't like.
---Cluny on 5/8/10


Amen Moderator

it was RCC's wealth generator to steal from the poor and uneducated - seeing they forbid any of their subjects from reading Gods Word it was easy to brainwash the ignorant masses with this borrowed pagan idea ...today this religious institution starts this lie when their children are young ...its repeated so often throughout their young impressionable lives they come to accept it even when faced with Truth from Gods Word ...they simply reject Gods Word that clearly does not support this concept and follow their programmed beliefs which are separate from Truth

thankfully The Father in Heaven tells us in scripture that pagan traditions are abominations and most obviously purgatory is NOT implied anywhere in scripture
---Rhonda on 5/7/10


Mark
You are assuming that "once saved always saved". Your right that salvation is a free gift of God. But I can choose to throw that gift away. God will never drop me from his hand but I can choose to jump out. Because he is a loving father he will take me back every time (after genuine repentance), no questions asked. But when I die the jig is up. If I am in his grace (because faith and repentance) I will join him in his house. If not then it was my fault for not accepting and keeping the free gift that he offered. As for purgatory it is not something that I will argue about. If it exists it exists, if it doesn't so be it. I just wanted to make it know that it is not a "second chance" as most people think.
---Steven on 5/7/10


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Steven, you said,
"The CC does not teach that works get you to heaven. You are saved by Grace. But you need to cooperate with that Grace and submit to God's will."
If you need to cooperate with that Grace it means you have to do some work of your own to get that salvation. In other words the death of Christ on the Cross was not sufficient to save anyone. It needs your works in order to work. Your plus Christ. Sorry, but we are saved by the Grace of God.
There is no purification in purgatory, because there is no purgatory. And no purification can be done when you are dead already. The body cannot sin anymore. Everything has stopped.
---MarkV. on 5/7/10


\\Was the prison where they were when Jesus went to preach a type of purgatory? A holding cell until they have a change of mind and heart?
---francis on 5/7/10\\

You've asked a good question, francis.

However, either way, it does say that those who die have SOME kind of consciousness after death, as opposed to those who teach the totally un-Biblical doctrine of soul sleep--or soul extinction.
---Cluny on 5/7/10


I believe the Scripture in 1 PETER 3:19, is more in line of Jesus preaching in Hades as more of a pronouncement of victory than the preaching of the gospel message.
---catherine on 5/7/10


Here is the problem with protestant doctrine:
They do not believe in purgatory, they believe you either make it to heaven or not.

YET many protestants believe that those in Noah's days who rejected the call of God to stop sinning and entere the ark, was stuck in " prison" until Jesus came and preached to them.

Can you see the irony in this?

Was the prison where they were when Jesus went to preach a type of purgatory? A holding cell until they have a change of mind and heart?
---francis on 5/7/10


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Purgatory is the after life's laundromat, where you are purified for entry into heaven.
The decisions and implication of your choices in life are all set in motion, nothing can change them.
---Joe on 5/7/10


I did not say that you can change your mind. I said that it is a purification before you enter heaven. The CC does not teach that works get you to heaven. You are saved by Grace. But you need to cooperate with that Grace and submit to God's will.
---Steven on 5/7/10


\\There is no purgatory. You either made it into God's kingdom or you didn't.\\

As I understand the Roman Catholic doctrine of purgatory, it IS part of God's Kingdom--an ante-room into heaven.

\\ There is no special place where you can still change your mind or have someone pray for you to change your mind about Christ.\\

This is NOT what the Roman Catholic Church teaches about purgatory, of course. You're using the straw-man argument.

The RCC teaches that those in Purgatory are indeed saved, but have not yet come to the fullness of their reward yet.
---Cluny on 5/7/10


There is no purgatory. You either made it into God's kingdom or you didn't. There is no special place where you can still change your mind or have someone pray for you to change your mind about Christ. You are dead and dead people cannot respond to the calling of Christ. You have to do that in this lifetime.
Either Christ paid the debt you owed for your sins with His blood on the cross before you die, or else you are still condemned by the curse you were born with. When Christ pays the debt we owe, it is once for all time.
Catholics believe that works saves, and if someone in purgatory does good works, I don't see how if he is dead. Then they are depending someone else pays the debt for their sins.
---MarkV. on 5/7/10


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The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines purgatory as a "purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven," which is experienced by those "who die in Gods grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified" (CCC 1030). It notes that "this final purification of the elect . . . is entirely different from the punishment of the damned" (CCC 1031).

The purification is necessary because, as Scripture teaches, nothing unclean will enter the presence of God in heaven (Rev. 21:27) and, while we may die with our mortal sins forgiven, there can still be many impurities in us, specifically venial sins and the temporal punishment due to sins already forgiven.
---Steven on 5/7/10


Purgatory became the beguiled explantion of the other side of the gulf in paradise.
A subtle-resonance.

*Gulf-Luke23:4
*Paradise-2Cor 12:4,Rev2:7,Luke 16:26
---char on 5/7/10


Purgatory is just a of wishful thinking. It gives false hope to love ones on earth who are still alive. They think they they can pray for people they love and get them into heaven. There are no biblical principles that can be used to prove "pergatory" is valid. If a person doesn't accept Christ as Savior when alive, it's too late to pray for them after they die.
---wivv on 5/7/10


"Can anyone find any scriptural evidence for such an idea?"
That would depend upon whether one believes the Apocrypha to be Scripture.
---josef on 5/7/10


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Samuel, the Jews did not drop these books until the Rabbinical Synod of Jamnia in AD 90 or so, some 300 years AFTER the LXX was translated and 2 generations AFTER the founding of the Church

This synod was made up of the spiritual children of the very Scribes, Pharisees, and others whom Jesus called fools, blind guides, and rejected Him during His earthly sojourn.

I, myself, don't care to follow their advice.

BTW--Luther's Bible was NOT the first German Bible. There was an official Roman Catholic Translation before him.

Did you know that?
---Cluny on 5/6/10


Cluny: I never know much about indulgences, I just noted that as I took other comments to be confusing indulgences with purgatory

I do not know if I can agree with purgatory, but i would personally suspect that we are actually purified by God on earth, not after death

Indulgences sound dangerous.....
---peter3594 on 5/6/10


Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison,

1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Most protestant view this text as Jesus going to the underworld to preach to souls in prison.

Is that not the exact same doctrine of purgatory?

also this one is the same doctrine as purgatory:

Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me,
---Francis on 5/6/10


The Orthodox churches adoptes the Greek Septuigent as their Bible. It was written by some Jewish scholars in Egypt who added some books not included in the Hebrew Orthodox Canon. I have two Jewish Bibles at home neither includeds the Apocrapha which is really some wise sayings and a report on history between the Testaments.

Martin Luther in translating the Bible into the common language of the People so they could acutally read the Bible went to the listed Jewish Bible and so dropped the books that the Egyption scholars had added.

The orthodox churches had to reject this since some of their doctrines were based on these disputed books.
---Samuel on 5/6/10


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I believe the pope at one time sold sainthood for a price.
---tom2 on 5/6/10


I know this,jesus taught about heaven and hell,but never mentioned about any place in between,if it existed seems to me he would have said so.
---tom2 on 5/6/10


The Scriptures, God's word, does not teach>>>>>the doctrine of purgatory. You will not find, not one Scripture which teaches that when you die you go to any place to be purified. Once you leave this world, and, you take your last breath, God takes it from you, Your Spirit will either go directly to heaven or directly to hell. Hallelujah.....++
---catherine on 5/6/10


You will find NonScriptures and the NonBiblical apocrypha supporting the false doctrine and praying for the dead, but you will not find any Holy Scripture to support this false doctrine.
---Eloy on 5/6/10


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\\If you are using the HOLY Bible (God's Bible) and not the Catholic Bible (man's Bible) - there is NO scripture stating about Purgatory\\

What you're calling the Holy Bible is a Bible with a great big hole in it.

Orthodox use the WHOLE Bible.
---Cluny on 5/5/10


No, I dont't believe in Purgatory. However, I do believe in Heaven and Hell. You don't need no money, only thing is required is your Soul.
---Kimbe7395 on 5/5/10


\\The money part was the [Papal] indulgences, wasn't it? Where people paid money so their sins would be forgotten/forgiven?\\

This is one of the abuses corrected by the Council of Trent.

It was never the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church.

(And as I've remarked elsewhere, saying, "What you say about XYZ is inaccurate" is NOT the same thing as saying, "I agree 100% with XYZ.")
---Cluny on 5/5/10


If you are using the HOLY Bible (God's Bible) and not the Catholic Bible (man's Bible) - there is NO scripture stating about Purgatory. In other words, it is man making his own way to God. This is NOT in agreement with God, but against Him.
---Leslie on 5/5/10


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whatever denomination you are in, religion is a GREAT BIG business bec. of malachi & 10%.

where in the bible does it say a pastor should be making what he is making to afford a house & luxury car? it does not say.

where does all the money go when you see 0700 do a telethon?

you are told not to have 'self-confidence' but christ confidence.
pastor quoting malachi & 10% is NOT CHRIST CONFIDENCE BUT EXPLOITATION & PERVERSION OF THE BIBLE to make money.
---mike on 5/5/10


I will agree, though I always though Purgatory was just a time saved people spent after resurrection while any residual sin was removed by God [being made pure], without the question of money

The money part was the [Papal] indulgences, wasn't it? Where people paid money so their sins would be forgotten/forgiven?
---Peter3594 on 5/5/10


The Roman Catholic church still teaches about purgatory. It is where our sins are fully purged from our immortal soul which is not taught in the Bible.
---Samuel on 5/5/10


The Moderator is right. Sins are purged while alive, for after death the deceased cannot purge anything, nor can any other person alive atone by proxy for someone elses sins, for the guilty sinner is reposnsible their own sins and the repentance thereof. When a person dies they are sealed either in their sins, or else forgiven and sealed in their cleanness through repentance.
---Eloy on 5/5/10


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The reply for this went to another blog reply for some reason.

No such a place. It a Man-made idea that came from here, 2nd.Cor.11 v's 14 - 15.
Psa.49 v 7.

It's a money maker for the rcc, the mother apostate church. What a corrupt business along with their idol worship.
---Lawrence on 5/5/10


There is no such place in the Bible. It was
invented by the RCC to help it sell indulgences (pardon of sin) in order to help it build beautiful ornate temples.
---Pierre on 5/5/10


FWIW, the average mass stipend in the USA today is $10.

There are only some 250 days a year where a priest may celebrate a mass and accept a stipend from the donor.

You can see how much money it makes by doing the math.

Maximum: 2500 a year, or about 2 months salary for the average American.
---Cluny on 5/5/10


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