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Gaza Blockade Fight

What is your reaction toward the Gaza blockade incident between the Israeli commandos and pro-Palestinian aid flotilla.

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Cluny The 2003 Road map for peace calls for a series of steps, each contingent on the previous steps, leading to the establishment of a Palestinian state. Included among these steps is dismantling of Palestinian terrorist groups by the Palestinian Authority. Additional steps are required of both Israel and the Palestinian Authority.

Notice the roadmap calls for actions leading to the establishment of a Palestinian state. Why would this be so if a Palestinian state were already in existence.
---mima on 6/12/10


Donna, my basic point is that there were no clan/tribe/group of Palestinians 3,000 years ago.
I think the Edomites were organized and controlled the caravan routes from Arabia, not nomadic. They needed to protect the routes from the nomads. Moab must have been organized as they had a king who hired Balaam. Ammonites appear to have been farmers and also grazed animals in upper Gilead. The nomads and Bedouins were mostly in the Negeb raiding the caravans.
You are probably as right as I am in principle.

cluny, if there was a Palestian State during the British Mandate, who was the king/monarch/dictator, and what were the boarders?
---Rod4Him on 6/12/10


Cluny, you are mistaken. Palestine is a geographica term. There was no Palestinian state during the mandate. I am a bit surprised at your error. You are not often wrong.
You are right, however, in that speaking Aramaic does not make one an Arab.
---Rod4Him on 6/12/10


Rod4Him-- //The Edomites, Moabites, and Ammonites were on the Jordan side of Israel.//
These may be the peoples I had in mind, but those are not the modern names for them.
However they remained tribal people did they not? Thus I called them "nomads living mostly in Jordan" or "Bedouins"
I'm no expert on this subject and the last time I was there, there was less hostility ...and no "Hammas"!.

I Think it is true that The land of Israel has been occupied by Jews continuously, even from the earliest times. They were not ALL dispersed to other countries. Correct me if this is wrong.
---Donna66 on 6/12/10


Many, if not most, Palestinians speak Arabic, yes, but that makes them about as much Arabs as our speaking English makes us British subjects.

Yes, there indeed WAS a state called Palestine.

It existed between the ends of WW1 and WW2, and was part of the British Mandate.

One of the myths circulated by Herzel and other Zionist was that it was a "land without a people".

This is historically untrue.
---Cluny on 6/12/10




//The Palestinians AND the Jews BOTH have a history in the area going back 3,000 some years. There was intermarriage between them for generations.//

Donna, I believe you are mistaken in that statement. Who do you suggest the Palestinians were? The Arabs were not in the land 3,000 years ago. The Edomites, Moabites, and Ammonites were on the Jordan side of Israel.

Otherwise, you have been right on you analysis of the land of Israel.
---Rod4Him on 6/11/10


Israel is a democracy, a tiny nation of about 22,000 square kilometres (about 2.5 times the tiny US state Rhode Island), with a population of about 7.5 million. In comparison the USA has a land area about 9.8 million sq/km with a population above 300 million. Get the point?

Israel is surrounded by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 times Israel's land area and 60 times Israel's population. And all the oil! Sixty five percent of Israel's population live less than 10km from its borders.

Some here, Muslim activists/apologists or those sitting back safely, would call Israel expansionist aggressors and deny it the right to defend itself against Islamic nations sworn to wipe it off the face of the earth!
---Warwick on 6/11/10


Atheist-- Israel has ALWAYS been willing to share the land. They have been told "give land for peace" and they have, time after time. But it's not enough for the Palistinians. They won't compromise. They want Israel "wiped off the face of the earth". Israel will fight rather than leave their homeland, the small amount that's left.

Don't tell me YOU haven't taken sides. And when you figure out how to apply the "Golden Rule" to warfare, let Obama and the UN know, will ya?
---Donna66 on 6/8/10


Nurse Robert--
The American Indians were on the N. American continent first, long before the Europeans came.
The Palestinians AND the Jews BOTH have a history in the area going back 3,000 some years. There was intermarriage between them for generations.
The Palestinians never had a recognized state in that area. Nobody is saying they can't now. But they don't want a two state solution. They are emphatic.. they want Israel annialated...period.
---Donna66 on 6/8/10


Donna,

They could start by treating Palestians as human beings, and then maybe expand to that do unto others thing, while conceding that they must either share land or give it so the Palestinians to have some place called home.
---atheist on 6/8/10




I'm not arguing the right of the Jews to have their state, however, don't the others living there also have a right to a homeland. How many were living in what is now Israel for how many generations before they got pushed off their land?

There was no United States before we pushed the Native Americans off THEIR land, land they held for hundreds of years. If your saying the Israelis had a right to reclaim their land, then why don't the Native Americans?

There may not have been a "nation", but the Israelis were were in the same boat as the our Native Americans.
---NurseRobert on 6/8/10


atheist -- Obviously. The Palistinians say they want peace. Cetainly Israel does. How would YOU suggest they achieve it?
---Donna66 on 6/8/10


State, who cares? Bible prophecy, does it matter, if you might have it wrong?

The Arabs, Palestinians, Jews, and Christians living in the area are people. They are mothers and fathers with children, and brothers and sisters. They want to eat, they want to live decently. Some have been radicalized to hate the others do to this everlasting blood feud. Some are so psychopathic in their viewpoint and actions that they will probably never be able to live decent and normal lives amoung their own 'kind' or others.

All sides have done wrong, and all sides have viewpoints the other has trouble seeing.

We here are not being helpful when we chose one side or the other. We must help all sides find the path of peace.
---atheist on 6/8/10


Donna is right. I can't respond directly to the informaion that cluny mentioned, but whoever he is refering to did not have a state. They may have and probably did live in the land, but with no central government.
Yes, I agree with the dilemna that people lived in the land before Israel became a state again, and what do we do with those people? BTW, Jews also lived in the land.
The historical record is that Israel had a state/religious government 3,500 years ago.
The Assyrians took the Northern Kingdom, Babylon the Southern Kingdom. Then they returned, and the Romans kicked them out. The early churh/christians were anti-semtic demonstrated by Constantine.
Maybe if someone could find a Cananite or Pilistine, they may have an argument.
---Rod4Him on 6/7/10


Mima,

and what other lands can we be certain that 'god' gave to other people?
---atheist on 6/8/10


Cluny -- As I said, there was no Palestinian "state". The Palestinians were basically nomads living mostly in Jordan.

But both the Israelis and the Palestinians have roots in that land that date to antiquity.
The Israelis are not "occupying" anybody else's legal territory. They were re-located there by the UN in 1948. Several times, they have "given lands for peace" but the Palestinians have no interest in "peace". They want nothing less than the annihilation of Israel ...to "wipe them off the face of the earth"

My support of Israel has nothing to do with prophesy. They are the only viable democracy in the middle east, surrounded by those who would destroy them.
---Donna66 on 6/7/10


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Regardless of when the Palestinians came, oh by the way there has never been a Palestinian state, we can be certain that God gave the that land to the Jewish people.
---mima on 6/7/10


\\Donna, actually there were no Palestinians until late.\\

This is a wide-spread attitude among American Christians, especially dispensationalists, but it simply is not true.

I would urge the people on this board to read the book BLOOD BROTHERS by Elias Chacour, a Christian Palestinian whose Christian ancestors, dating back to the time of Christ Himself, lived in Galilee for centuries before the founding of the modern State of Israel.

Some of you might find his story stretching everything you've ever believed and assumed about Biblical prophecy.

Others will find it eye-opening.
---Cluny on 6/7/10


Donna, actually there were no Palestinians until late. The Cannanites were Phoenicians who are no more. The Philistines were wiped out by Tiglath, I think it was.

Hadrian, in 135 A.D., after destroying Jerusalem and exiling the Jews renamed the land Palestine to remove anything Jewish.
---Rod4Him on 6/7/10


Nurse Robert-- What was the name of the "state" Israel displaced? The Palestinians had no "state". They were nomadic Bedouins who lived in organized tribes.

There is no analogy here between the the new American settlers and the American Indians.
The Jewish nation in the area of Israel dates back in antiquity every bit as far as the Palestinians, possibly longer. They were dispersed, but are every bit as entitled to re-group as a nation in the area as the wide-spread nomadic Bedouins.
---Donna66 on 6/6/10


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atheist--//As I said, anyone can find what they need to justify any belief or action in their chosen scripture.//

But you don't know which scriptures are incorrectly used.... or how. Why not read the Bible yourself and find out?
---Donna66 on 6/6/10


The Jews are trying to preserve their legally established nation. The Palestinians have never had a nation.
---Donna66 on 6/5/10

So, a question that has been bugging me..

The Jewish state was reestablished in (after many years) in 1948. What happened to the people who were pushed off the land? The could have their own state? Well, they had one and it was taken from them.

If the argument is that it belonged to the Jews, shouldn't we give America back to the native Americans?
---NurseRobert on 6/6/10


There are always two sides to every story.

The Jews are trying to preserve their legally established nation. The Palestinians have never had a nation. There never has been a nation of Palestine. They certainly could have one...there's room for both. But THAT doesn't satisfy them. They want to "wipe the Jews off the face of the earth". It's called anti-Semitism. And it's a popular viewpoint across the globe.
---Donna66 on 6/5/10


We must not judge others too harshly on these here blogs, we cannot even see their faces. However, Have some respect for Jesus, for He wasn't just a man. He was God in the flesh and now He is Person of the Holy Spirit. Jesus is a man, Jesus is the one true living God and Jesus is Spirit. Jesus is the only person in whom one must please, And Jesus is the only person who has the power to either save you or throw you into hell. That's it.
---catherine on 6/5/10


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Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

I don't believe Israel "can do no wrong" but I believe their cause (self-preservation) is righteous.
---Donna66 on 6/5/10

Aren't Muslims acting for self-preservation?

So much for do unto others...and the Prince of Peace...

As I said, anyone can find what they need to justify any belief or action in their chosen scripture.

Thanks for proving the point Donna.
---atheist on 6/5/10


Catherine ... I stand by my statement.


I'm not talking about theistic issues, or salvation, just about what Jesus the man said about our relationships with other humans. Atheist understands what Jesus says about "love thy neighbour, even love your enemy", better than many Christians.

Perhaps they "only wear the Christian label", but they appear to visit these blogs, where there is often very little love shown.
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/5/10


Did you know that the City of Jerusalem is mentioned over 600 times in the Bible and never once mentioned in the Koran?

The Jews have had a presence in the Levant for over 3,000 years. They have more of a right to the land than anybody else does. The challenge is how to create peace in the land with all the peoples there now.

I used the word Levant to describe the land instead of Palestine because Hadrian changed the name to Palestine in 136 A.D. when he drove the Jews out of the land.
---Rod4Him on 6/5/10


It's important to remember that the "Prince of Peace" did not value peace at any price.
His rhetoric, itself, was pretty inflammatory at times. Plus He said (Mat 10:34-35)
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

I don't believe Israel "can do no wrong" but I believe their cause (self-preservation) is righteous.
---Donna66 on 6/5/10


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NO WAY! can an atheist understand Scripture. It is impossible without the living God. And don't forget, please. There are many, many, many, people who only wears the Christian's label, but has never been saved. You must be born-again through His mighty, powerful, BLOOD.+
---catherine on 6/5/10


Atheist seems to understand Jesus' teaching better than many Christians!
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/5/10


In this struggle, which side do you believe god supports---the Jews or the Arabs? Or could he be sadden by the failure of both to find peace? And, if this is so shouldn't Christians, as Christians do everything possible to bring peace to the region? If Jesus is the Prince of Peace, shouldn't this be a Christian's prime focus for the region?
---atheist on 6/4/10


mima, for what it is worth, supporting Israel and agreeing with everything they do are two different things. Even people in their own administration disagree with each other on how to handle some of the complex issues.
I agree with Donna. However, I happen to believe Israel could have handled the situation more wisely.
---Rod4Him on 6/3/10


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The blockade is legal, according to international law. But since the ships that challenged it were sponsored by an Islamic group, and carried people openly shouting their dedication to "intifada", the Israelis naturally were concerned that weapons might be aboard them.
Thus they offered, twice, to offload all humanitarian goods in the port of Ashdod and have United Nations personnel deliver the items to Gaza. But both times they were rebuffed.

I think the Israeli Commandos acted appropriately (they fired paint guns first, turning to real weapons as a last resort only when attacked by clubs and knives)
Like it or not, Israel has a right to defend itself as a nation.
---Donna on 6/3/10


Even a casual reading of the replies to questions concerning Israel will show you who supports Israel and who does not.
Those who do not support Israel placed themselves in direct opposition to God's chosen people.
---mima on 6/3/10


I do not believe that Israel is trying to start a war! Bible prophecy is being fulfilled. The Bible speaks of many nations turning against Israel. [I might not get it just exact, because I have done so very little STUDY in this]. I want the U.S. to support Israel. I must tell you that I really like Israel's president, and every time I hear him speak my heart goes out to him....The future does not look very good for anyone who does not have the Lord.
---catherine on 6/3/10


Good rod4Him. Thanks
---catherine on 6/3/10


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Here are a few facts to keep in mind.
1) Israel has been providing 15,000 tons of food and medicine. No crisis in Gaza.
2) Gaza has been blockaded since they took an Israeli soldier, against international law.
3) Israel repeatly offered the flotilla to dock at Ashdod for inspection.
4) The flotilla folks were supposed to be peace activists. They were looking for a confrontation and got it.

My opinion is that Israel mis-calculated and fell into the flotilla's proprogana hopes. Israel should have done a better job of planning and execution. The flotilla purposely provoked the situation. Gaza's states that they want Israel destroyed. What do people suggest is the solution to the situation?
---Rod4Him on 6/2/10


Cluny:

While boarding a ship on the open seas without provocation may be an act of war or piracy, boarding a ship that has been shooting at you is another matter entirely. If they shoot first, THEY are the ones committing an act of war, and you are fully within your rights to stop them from continuing to do so by any means necessary. The fact that they boarded the ship rather than just blowing it out of the water shows considerable restraint - the kind that the international community is all too eager to believe that they lack.
---StrongAxe on 6/2/10


We know the flotilla made it plain that their intention was to get through the blockade. We know Israel warned them not to do so as they would respond forcefully.

So, if you want to run the blockade, then don't start crying when you get shot.

As to children being hurt, remember the God of Israel specifically gave orders to eleminate the enemies children several times in Israels history.

Chara9846
---Charles on 6/1/10


This action was a measured response. We do not know from which side. Other ships are passing through after being inspected for weapons why did this particular ship depart from that process?
The Middle East is in a turmoil that will not cease until Lord Jesus returns after the battle of Armageddon. As a strong Jewish supporter I prefer to take the side of Israel. Many many Arabs live within the State of Israel and they have no problem yet a certain percentage of Arabs cause enormous amounts of trouble.
---mima on 6/1/10


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Until we know and have all of the facts, we really cannot say what our reaction is...who was right, who was wrong, etc.,

They are showing two different video clips. One from the Israeli's and one from the Humanitarian ship where they were bringing supplies into Gaza (which I understand Israel lets them do). So why was this raid different?

So many questions, so little information and answers as of today.
---Donna5535 on 6/1/10


For the armed forces of one country to attempt to board the ship of another country without permission of the captain when on the open sea is either an act of war or an act of piracy.

I would remind people here that not everything Israel does is automatically right. Even in Scripture, God was not always pleased with the actions of Biblical Israel towards her neighbors, or how non-Jews residing in her borders were treated.
---Cluny on 6/1/10


One who harms children while avenging himself on adults is, at the very least, guilty of a moral lapse, no matter who he is.
---ger.toshav on 6/1/10


Right now even the evidence seems limited......

I prefer not to take a view until some more evidence is in, though so far I feel that, while Israel had good reason not to want the covoy in, Israel probably went a bit too far
---peter on 6/1/10


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