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Pastors Not Saying Sorry

A recent issue of TIME magazine had a story about "Why Being The Pope Means Never Having To Say You're Sorry". A lot of church leaders seem to live by that slogan. Is "Never Having To Say You're Sorry" a Biblical way of thinking or not?

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\\On on the other side, I now have you thinking I say that RCs and Orthodox worship Mary & idols (when in fact I say I don't think they do)\\

Good. I'm glad we have that misunderstanding cleared up.

However, many people think that, and it's simply not true.
---Cluny on 6/27/10


Alan of UK is think that you are a closet Mary worshipper which is why you are hard to pin down on your exact beliefs. LOL - Just kidding - you post cracked me up.
---Tom on 6/26/10


Cluny ... How extraordinary !!!

I have Mark on one side telling me that I am saying Mary & Idol worship is OK (when in fact I say it is wrong)

On on the other side, I now have you thinking I say that RCs and Orthodox worship Mary & idols (when in fact I say I don't think they do)

Cluny ... may I suggest you read mine of 6/14 and 6/15?
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/26/10


|| I agree with you 100% that Mary and idol worship is wrong.||

And I don't know anybody who worships Mary or anything else with the LATREIA that is owed to God alone.

What's more, I don't think you do, either.

I know you want credit for being able to see into other people's hearts and being able to tell this, but very few have this gift.
---Cluny on 6/26/10


Mark ... I agree with you 100% that Mary and idol worship is wrong.
Mark, my original post here was a friendly comment, and a friendly question.
A pity you would not accept it as that.
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/25/10




Alan, by the way, it was not your fault that you are complaining. It was my fault really. I should have never answered your questions, I should have known better. It was my mistake not yours. I didn't learn from five or seven months ago, the last time I answered you. I am learning.
---Mark_V. on 6/25/10


Alan, I cannot take it anymore, your complaining never ends, if I was married to you, I would have walked off as far as I could go, waking up every morning listening to more and more would cause me to commit suicide. You are not even interested in the topic what you are interested is yourself. The worship and images in the RCC was never your reason for answering. You don't take seriously how important the issues are. I have spend enough time trying to please you with answers to no avail. I move on, and let you do what you want and believe what you want and defend who you want. Good luck
---Mark_V. on 6/25/10


No Mark ... go back and read. I said the RC's Bible included the full 10Cs ... as it does.
You attacked me for telling that truth, even though in my introduction I had agreed with you about Mary & idol worship being wrong.
Had you been an honest debater, instead of your attack, you could just have said "You may be right, Alan, but it's the catechism that counts in the way they teach their people, and that does not include that part of the 10C"
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/24/10


Mark ... At last the proof that you don't understand what you read ... You actually quote what I said:

"Is the second commandment really missing from the catholic catechism ... is it not included in their first commandment."

Now Mark, can you not read the structure of the sentence, and see that it was a question?

Why did you not answer it?

Why did you chose to read it as a statement of support for Mary & idol worship?

On this issue, I have NEVER disagreed with youm on the biblical principle, yet you make out that I do.

Why?
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/24/10


Alan, don't side step on what I said. I said they removed the Second Commandment from the Bible are not their catechism their articles of faith? The very fact they instituted images is contradictory to what God ordained. You argue for nothing. When they bow down and reverence the saints and Mary, Light candles to them, ask them for miracles or they not doing exactly what God said not to do?
Here is what you have said,
"I think they would already agree that "Idol worship is wrong" and again I don't think they do actually worship idols.

Is the second commandment really missing from the catholic catechism ... is it not included in their first commandment."
Just a few of the things you have said.
---Mark_V. on 6/24/10




Mark ... You should perhaps read the posts, and see that I have been talking about what the RCC Bible says, not their catechism.

That may enable you to withdraw your suggestion that I support Mary and idol worship.

It is time for you to realise that I have no disagreement with you Biblically on this issue
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/24/10


Mark ... You should perhaps read the posts, and see that I have been talking about what the RCC Bible says, not their catechism.

That may enable you to withdraw your suggestion that I support Mary and idol worship.

It is time for you to realise that I have no disagreement with you Biblically on this issue
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/24/10


Alan, concerning the questions you put up that you said I lied on, here is what you do, When you lie and call someone a liar, like you did to Hazzel, you said it was imply, when I imply you are saying something about the sovereignty of God, you say I lie.
Your lies are implies, my implies are lies. You have a double standard.
When you say you came to Christ out of your own free will, you are implying that your works, coming to Christ, was by your abilites. That is what you imply.
When you say God is Sovereign, and you say He gives you free will to do what you want, how can you imply He is Sovereign? If you are in control of your life, you are sovereign and He is not. He did not lay down His sovereignty so that you can be sovereign.
---Mark_V. on 6/24/10


Alan, have you not read their catechism? You have to look it up. Catechism 1192, gives them the right to make graven images not only of God but of Mary, the angels and the saints, bow down to them and venerate them. Read it. Catechism 2131 their excuses are given why they can. The very thing God condemned they not do. The ninth commandment became two commandments. The Ninth, "Do not covet your neighbors wife," and Ten, "do not covet your neighbors goods."
Here is why, if you are interested, God has not been slow to express His opposition to the use of sacred images. He has prohibited images because they cannot convey who God is. No image of Jesus, no matter how magnificent it is, can capture the nature of the Lord.
---Mark_V. on 6/23/10


Mark ... It is a difference then between what I have seen and observed, and what you may havbe seen.

You say the RCC 10C do not contain the bit "not making carve images or any likeness of anything in heaven or under the earth or under the sea."

Mark I have seen an RCC Bible and inscriptions on the wall of an RCC church which contain this bit "not making carve images or any likeness of anything in heaven or under the earth or under the sea."

But it is part of their first commandment.

It may not carry the number 2 ... but that does not mean it is not there.

Of course in the original texts, the commandments were not numbered at all.
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/23/10


Alan, I will answer you, the First Commandment is not the Second Commandment. The Second commandment I quote already to you. The first is different then the Second. The second is about "not making carve images or any likeness of anything in heaven or under the earth or under the sea."
This commandment is not about worshipping other pagan gods, but about worshipping the real God through a medium of a sacred image, and to do that is to engage in idolatry. For no image can capture the fullness of the Lord, and for that reason, God prohibits the making of any sacred images. Suppose you show a statue of Jesus crucifixion to someone who has no knowledge of Christ, What will he understand by that statue? A defeated Christ.
---Mark_V. on 6/23/10


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Linda ... Thank you!
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/22/10


//1 I do not deny God is sovereign ... I say that God is not so great that He allows free will. A greater sovereign than you can imagine//

Amen, Alan.

//4 Jesus saved me by His sacrifice. I never said I saved myself//

This seems to be a generic accusation. I was accused of it too on a completely different topic.

//6 I came to Christ by my works? Please elucidate. How is accepting a gift a work?//

Amen again, Alan.
---Linda on 6/22/10


Mark ... I take my stand on truth ... which is that the RCC have not removed the 2nd commandment from their Bible

If you find it difficult to argue your case without multiple false witness ... that is up to you and God.

As I said before, I stand WITH YOU on the question of idolatry, and Mary worship.

If you don't like me agreeing with you, that again is your problem
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/22/10


Alan, you will not be happy continuing with this topic. Let it go. You don't like my answers so you complain. You want an apology, you want repentance, you want to look good, in fact to me you really don't care about the topic, you just wanted to question what I said about the Second Commandment removed by the RCC. I know I do not look good in many of my answers but I do not back down, because I do not compromise the Truth for anyone, not even you. You don't want my friendship, that is fine. You do not like what I write, then don't answer me. If you want to discuss anything with me from now on, bring your Sword, the Word of God, this way your opinions won't count. But at least take a stand, so we know what side you are on.
---Mark_V. on 6/22/10


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Mark.

1 I do not deny God is sovereign ... I say that God is not so great that He allows free will. A greater sovereign than you can imagine
2 I did not support Catholic idolatry ... I correctly said their Bible includes the prohibition of this.
3 I do not asupport Mary worship ... so why did you say I did?
4 Jesus saved me by His sacrifice. I never said I saved myself
5 It was during a discussion about OSAS
6 I came to Christ by my works? Please elucidate. How is accepting a gift a work?

Unless anyone slavishly follows your compulsory salvation belief, you seem prepared to blacken them with your falsehoods
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/22/10


1. Denied the sovereignty of God'
Answer: When a person claims they come to Christ on their own free will, they deny that God is sovereign and that He draws you to Himself.
2. support the Catholics idolatry
Answer: you spoke for them concerning the Second Commandment Exodus 20:4,5 removed from their commandments.
3: I support Mary's worship
Answer: You said you didn't.
4. save yourselves
Answer: You have said that you came to Christ out of your own free will, it was by your works. Not by the works of God.
5. that it is ok for you to sin
Answer: I do not remember ever saying that.
6. God is grateful to you
Answer: with your works you say you came to Christ, so He should be grateful for you having mercy on Him.
---Mark_V. on 6/22/10


Alan, I put it aside five months ago. But like the guy said, "but you pull me right back." I heard that on a movie. I cannot clap myself on the back, I need you to do it. A little humor. Talking to you is worse then explaining healing or discussing healing with the sisters. They don't whin, they fight with all they got, and my faith was question a little there, but they do not whin at least not yet. My children whinned when they could not get their way. My dog whin's when she wants her treats. The French are whinning for their soccer team. The US were whinning for getting cheated. And England will really whin if they cannot win the next one. Just too much whinning going on. If you had been called what I have, you would die whinning.
---Mark_V. on 6/22/10


Oh Mark ... Clap yourself on the back ... for you have over the years self righteously told so many lies in your personal, ad homimen attacks on those who disagree with some of your doctrine.
These are a few of them:
That I & others have denied the sovereignty of God
.....
Karl Marx said it was OK to lie if it advanced the cause of Communism ... perhaps you remember Jesus saying a similar thing ... but I don't
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/21/10

Amen.

One lie would be enough.
---Trav on 6/22/10


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Oh Mark ... Clap yourself on the back ... for you have over the years self righteously told so many lies in your personal, ad homimen attacks on those who disagree with some of your doctrine.

These are a few of them:

That I & others have denied the sovereignty of God
That I support catholic idolatry
That I support Mary worship
That I & others have said we save ourselves
That I & others have said it is OK to sin
That I & others have said God is grateful to us when we accept Salvation.
That the RCC does not include the commandment against idolatry

Karl Marx said it was OK to lie if it advanced the cause of Communism ... perhaps you remember Jesus saying a similar thing ... but I don't
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/21/10


Mark ... I find it absolutely incredible that this has escalated into such a bitter dispute.

It all arose from a post of mine in which I was agreeing with you but for some reason, known only to yourself, you chose, untruly, to say I was disagreeing with the Bible.

It is time to put this aside
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/21/10


Alan, how righteous you must feel. When you said,
' made that implication in what was probably a vain attempt to show you how such things are done."
there is no implications, you accused her of speaking against God. Just like you accuse me also. You said,
"
I did not lie, but made an implication. It was a wrong implication, And I now withdraw it"
how do you withdraw something that came out of your mouth? Do you call it back in? Is it suppose to erase the memory of everyone on line?
Then you said,
"But you friend knows and uses the tactic constantly." you also accused me, using the very same thing you've just done. Which is a complete lie. My comments were about Idol worship.
---Mark_V. on 6/21/10


Hazzel ... I have withdrawn my "slander" and explained why I made the remark... I'm glad you have responded as you have, because it shows you have been hurt... and that is why I wiothdrew the comment, to show I did not mean it and did not want you to be hurt.

How how do you think that I feel about the oft-repeated slanders against me, which have never been withdrawn. Why do you object to me expressing my hurt?
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/21/10


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alan, how easy you slander someone before the world and then back down. you find fault in others, but no fault in you. you lied big time and you accuse others of lying. my remark was speaking good for you, that by finding a woman you would not complain so much. people carry pressure when they do not have a mate.
---Hazzel on 6/21/10


Hazzel ... Ah Hazzel, so it hurt!!

I did not lie, but made an implication. It was a wrong implication, And I now withdraw it.

I made that implication in what was probably a vain attempt to show you how such things are done.

It is the first time I have ever done that.

But you friend knows and uses the tactic constantly. He knows that I have never supported idol and Mary worship, yet he says I do.

Blessing to you.
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/21/10


alan, you are a liar, I never spoke about god, or his word, so I ask you to repent for your slanderous remarks?
---Hazzel on 6/20/10


Hazzel ... Why do you speak against Bible?
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/20/10


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MarkV ... You say "You took a stand when you spoke for the RCC and their Commandments"

I spoke the truth about the RCC Commandments as included in their Bible (at least the one I have seen ... It was axactly the same as our Protestant Bibles) I have seen the 10Cs inscribed in full on the walls of an RCC church.

If you think it is wrong of me to tell truth about that ... that is your problem.

If you think that when I say "Like you, I do not agree with the undue "elevation" of Mary", I am endorsing the worship of Mary ... that too is your problem.

I don't like the RCC and argue against many of its doctrines & practices ... but will not accuse it of something of which it innocent
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/20/10


MarkV You appeare to have difficulty in understanding written words.

I said to you "Like yuo, I do not agree with the undue "elevation" of Mary, but what you have described is far more extreme than what I have seen".

But of course you have first hand knowledge so certainly know more than I, and I would deplore what you describe"

I don't know how you can possibly interpret that as meaning that Mary & idol worship is OK by me.

And on the question on the prohibition of idol worship, I have yesterday seen on the wall of a RC church the full 10C including that prohibition.
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/20/10


Alan, nothing new from you, you have said the same thing to me that you have said to others many times, "you lied" "apologize". If not you complain as always. I'm not here to please you and make you a happy person, I am here to speak for God's Word, (Christ) and His Church. You took a stand when you spoke for the RCC and their Commandments. I know many here do not like me. It is because I question what they say with the Word of God. Yes, Sola Scriptura, Scripture interprets Scripture. I came on line to speak for the Truth only. If I make friends so be it. If not, I have a great friend in Christ my Lord. People have called me many things, but no matter what they call me, my love for Christ never fails.
---Mark_V. on 6/18/10


Uh-uh . . . our leaders need to be a good example of humility and honesty, "nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 3:4) Plus, we have, "For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God, and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?" (1 Peter 4:17) So, *we* are the ones being judged "first", not the false leaders who certain ones are so busy with criticizing. The obedient leaders, I offer, make sure a pastoral candidate meets the standards of 1 Timothy 3:10. And there is "self-controlled", in Titus 1:8, or I am not qualified even just to be *considered*. This is possible with the real God.
---Bill_bila5659 on 6/18/10


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Amen Mark v. alan complains all the time. he needs to find a woman.
---Hazzel on 6/18/10


Mark ... I used the imply. And that is what you did. Your intention was clear.
Why did you make that suggestion? There was nothing in anything that I had said which could possibly have led you to beleive that I may have thought that.

Please as I requested before, tell me where in this current discussion I do not agree with you about what the Bible says

You will be unable to do that, for I have throughout agreed with you as to what the Bible says

As before you have deliberately lied about what I said, You remain a liar, and you deserve to be exposed as that.
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/18/10


////A lot of church leaders seem to live by that slogan. Is "Never Having To Say You're Sorry" a Biblical way of thinking or not?////


Jesus said that if we do not forgive others of their trespasses against you, God the Father will not forgive you of your sins.
Can someone get into Heaven if they are not forgiven of their sins?
Are the Saved, excluded from what Jesus said in Matthew 6:15?
If they are, where is this exclusion written about in the Bible?
If they are not forgiven, are they really saved?
---David on 6/18/10


Alan, you did not add one word I put in my question, the word,"IF" Here is what I said,
"If you think it is great for the RCC to idol worship, and you give your stamp of approval, great. That is you"
Now did I say what you said? No. So please stop whinning again. This are serious matters of faith. That have to do with God. With a church who devotes their love to many. It has to do with the message going out so that others see the wrong they believe in and make a change. At least do it for God and stop thinking about yourself and wanting everyone to make you happy.
---Mark_V. on 6/17/10


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Mark ... you say "I do not remember one thing you agreed with me on Scripture"

I can quite beleive that!

For on most occasions, when I have agreed with you, you refduse to accept my agreement, and make up lies and publictly proclaim that I've said the opposite.

Thus:-

When I said Jesus saves, you stated that I had said we save ourselves

When I said we can be saved, yet still sin, you accused me of saying it is OK to sin.

And other instances.
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/17/10


Mark .. Please tell me where in this current discussion I do not agree with you about what the Bible says. You have implied most strongly that I "think it is great for the RCC to idol worship, and you give your stamp of approval, great" .... You know that is not true. I have never approved idol worship in any way. Will you have the honesty and courage to withdraw your lie?

As for second commandment about idol worship ... I have already agreed with you that the full words are not in their Catechism, and I have stated what they say about this, that their first implies this prohibition.

The second Commandment IS in their Bible. (the commandments are not numbered in any Bible version)
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/17/10


Please publish ..

Mark, you say the words "you shall not make for yourself a carved image any likeness of anything that is in heaven above or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth, you shall not bow down to them nor serve them, for I the Lord your God, am a jealous God. visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate Me" have been excluded from the Catholic Bible.

They are included in the one that I have seen
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/17/10


Alan, I do not remember one thing you agreed with me on Scripture. Even here you do not agree, you say you do and then give all the defenses why you don't. Stop pretending and get to the point. The Second Commandment is not in their faith. Check the Ten Commandments and those in Exodus 20:4,5 have been excluded. "you shall not make for yourself a carved image any likeness of anything that is in heaven above or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth, you shall not bow down to them nor serve them, for I the Lord your God, am a jealous God. visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate Me"
---Mark_V. on 6/17/10


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MarkV "Alan, you and I will never agree with anything from Scripture" That's not true, mostly we agree, as we do here!

Now to return to the issue as to what the RCC accepts, I have to amend my comment!!

Their Catechism does not mention the prohibition of idol worship, but the RCC says that "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" embraces that prohibition.

However, the RCC Bible does include the full 10C including the prohibition of idol worship. So it's wrong to say they don't accept that prohibition.

The main difference is that they will say they don't worship the idols (or Mary or the saints) whereas you reckon they do.

---alan8566_of_uk on 6/17/10


Mark ... You should really read what I write ... your reply proves that you don't. I was agreeing with all you say about idol & Mary worship being wrong

And yet you insist I think it great. Why don't you actually read what I say?

When & where have I approved RC idol worship? ... I have just said I do not see my RC friends doing this

My question remains about the RC version of the Commandments. I have seen the RC first commandment, and it includes that idols should not be worshipped. So it appears wrong for you to say they omit it.
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/17/10


Cluny, you can make a defense of the RCC if you want, it could be you also believe in the same worship of saints and Mary. Cluny, you cannot deny before Christ, as your judge that the people do not worship saints and Mary. That is a fact, and maybe they tell everyone, "please do not do this" but the church allows it to continue over the centuries. If they believed they should not worship idols, they would not permit it. They would remove every shrine, are places where the statues are at. They would demand for people to stop worshipping idols, instead they allow it to continue by justifying what they do, with answers to cover up what they really believe. They cannot admit they have always been wrong because they are never wrong.
---Mark_V. on 6/17/10


Alan, you and I will never agree with anything from Scripture. We agree with our views concerning our loss of our spouses but when it comes to Scripture, and other matters of faith and salvation, you have a complete different view and believes then I do. If you think it is great for the RCC to idol worship, and you give your stamp of approval, great. That is you.
I do not compromise God's Word for a lie. And in the RCC, Christ the Truth, was replaced with lie. If you cannot see this, i cannot help you see it.
---Mark_V. on 6/16/10


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\\ When the church went in that direction, they put Christ on the back seat of their faith. ...Concerning the Ten Commandments, they removed the Second Commandment and the Tenth became two commandments.\\

Both of these statements bear no resemblance to reality.

Do you actually think the division into chapters and verses (which would affect the numbering of the Decalogue) was part of the original text?
---Cluny on 6/16/10


Mark ... Like yuo, I do not agree with the undue "elevation" of Mary, but what you have described is far more extreme than what I have seen.

But of course you have first hand knowledge so certainly know more than I , and I would deplore what you describe

BUT ... I have read the Catholic commandments, and the prohibiton a idol worship is included in theri First commandment, so it has not been removed.
Or am I wrong on this?
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/15/10


Alan 2: I wish you could see what I have seen myself. Let me say, of all the things, the traditions, and many twisted doctrines they have come out with, the worst thing I believe in my heart that is so wrong is the worship of saints and Mary. When the church went in that direction, they put Christ on the back seat of their faith. They substituted the Truth for a lie. Concerning the Ten Commandments, they removed the Second Commandment and the Tenth became two commandments. The second commandment was about idol worship. There is no compromising the Truth for a lie. Instead of people getting angry for what is said, they should check their hearts first. What is more important to them, the Lord, or their church and their traditions.
---Mark_V. on 6/15/10


Well, many church leaders has never been saved, by His Blood. So these church leaders are dead wrong. Never be surprise if God tells you to apologize even if you feel that you are not at fault. Must obey God. Pride: We need God's help, power.
---catherine on 6/15/10


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Mark ... I am going by the Catholics that I know in the UK ... and by what the Catholics on this Site say. They will say they don't worship Mary & the saints.

But you are quite right about those practices you mention ... they certainly give the impression of worship ... and I agree that they are wrong.

I believe that Mary should be honoured ... not as the "Mother of God" but as the mother of Jesus' earthly manifestation.

As for Saints ... I cannot accept that we or the Pope can turn someone into a Saint.

saints are all the faithful ... some have gone before us but there is not a special class of Saint (upper case) although I do not object to Paul & Peter etc being allowed that special title!
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/15/10


Alan, you don't believe that the RCC would admit in worshipping the saints and Mary would you? By your answers I guess Catholics are different in the U.K. then in the states and all the latin countries. In Rome when the pope appears, all knees are bow to him. They try to touch his clothes made with precious colors. If they could they would kiss his feet. In the states and latin countries we have shrines build for the Modonna's. People pray to them and worship them. Light candles to them, make vows to them, that they will walk on their knees for miles if the Modonna will only answer their prayers. You will not see one shrine for Christ where people will get on their knees for Him and ask Him to help them on their prayers.
---Mark_V. on 6/15/10


In the last Baptist church with which I was associated, the minister of music had a taste for teenage boys, and the pastor (who is now an itinerant evangelist) was divorced by his wife for adultery.

NOBODY'S house is absolutely clean.
---Cluny on 6/14/10


" If more popes came forward, they would be able to clean house in the RCC"

There's only one Pope at a time, so no more can come forward at the moment

They won't "admit they worship Mary and the saints" because they say they don't and I think what they do does not fall under the definition of "worship"

I think they would already agree that "Idol worship is wrong" and again I don't think they do actually worship idols.

Is the second commandment really missing from the catholic catechism ... is it not included in their first commandment.
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/14/10


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The reason that it was not good for the RCC to say they are sorry about what happened with the priest, is because it is an admission that there was always a problem, and by admitting it, it would show they are not infallible as many believe. It was about keeping a good and godly image but the Pope had the guts to say they were wrong. So did Pope John Paul when he admitted they were wrong in the way they persecuted the Jews through the centuries. If more popes came forward, they would be able to clean house in the RCC. Now we need a pope to admit they worship Mary and the saints, admit Idol worship is wrong, install the Second Commandment back on their catechism, and maybe that would bring them closer to God.
---MarkV. on 6/13/10


Today, 11 June 2010, Pope Benedict gave yet ANOTHER apology about clerical sexual abuse to the crowd in St. Peter's Square.

I heard this on NBC news.
---Cluny on 6/11/10


\\ I think that he should have defrocked some priests long ago.\\

Since he's been pope for only 3 years, he hasn't had the authority to dismiss from the clerical state for all that long. (BTW--"defrock", howsoever commonly used in the MSM, is not a canonical term.)

I do know that in one case that came to the attention of CDF when he was head of it, the priest involved was on his deathbed. It was considered more to the point to let nature take its course and let God handle it.

And since CDF has only 45 people working in the whole department, I'm sure they would appreciate your help. Why don't you volunteer your services?
---Cluny on 6/8/10


Cluny,

I'm not saying that I want anything more from Pope Benedict.

I just have LESS respect for the Catholic church leadership after the not-so-good events with some priests and the cover-ups. While Pope Benedict's involvement might have been minimal, I think that he should have defrocked some priests long ago. I might be ex-communicated from the Catholic church for saying that. I'm scared!

Similar scandals happen in other churches, like Teddy's in Colorado. Ouch!

I believe that God is trying to tell us something here. You can't commit criminal acts and not be held responsible.
---Sag on 6/8/10


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\\I believe that not being able to say "I'm Sorry" is a sign of a HARD heart, unforgiveness, bitterness, and maybe more too. Actually, when we are unable to confess, apologize, say "I'm Sorry", etc. we are HURTING ourselves, and GOD, too.
---Sag on 6/8/10\\

And Pope Benedict said he was sorry.

What more do you want?
---Cluny on 6/8/10


Cluny,

The Bible says that we're ALL imperfect. People have a sinful nature. My experience is that Christians can be even MORE sinful than Atheists. Maybe some Christians feel that "being saved" is a license to sin more, while they can, so why not? Whatever.

We ALL need to be willing to examine OURSELVES, recognize sin in OUR lives, and apologize. That includes saying "I'm Sorry". That might be to: God, other people, yourself, or everyone.

I believe that not being able to say "I'm Sorry" is a sign of a HARD heart, unforgiveness, bitterness, and maybe more too. Actually, when we are unable to confess, apologize, say "I'm Sorry", etc. we are HURTING ourselves, and GOD, too.
---Sag on 6/8/10


Here's a quote from the TIME magazine article:

>>I know that nothing can undo the wrong you have endured. Your trust has been betrayed and your dignity has been violated. Many of you found that, when you were courageous enough to speak of what happened to you, no one would listen ... It is understandable that you find it hard to forgive or be reconciled with the Church. In her name, I openly express the shame and remorse that we all feel."

What more do you want, Seg?

Or TIME, for that matter?
---Cluny on 6/8/10


\\That magazine article stated that it would be a DISASTER for the Catholic church if Pope Benedict said "I'm Sorry" and/or apologized for the misdeeds of priests and his covering things up. Really? \\

Did you read the paragraph in the article that ADMITTED that Pope Benedict had apologized in public several times?

Or did you just not notice it?
---Cluny on 6/7/10


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Yes, mima, they have an image to protect.
---Rod4Him on 6/7/10


\\That magazine article stated that it would be a DISASTER for the Catholic church if Pope Benedict said "I'm Sorry" and/or apologized for the misdeeds of priests and his covering things up. Really? \\

As a matter of fact he has done so on several occasions and has personally met with victims of abuse.

But he also personally did not cover anything up, and it's disinformation for the secular MSM to claim he did.
---Cluny on 6/7/10


The biblical way of thinking is to readily say I'm sorry. Even in the secular world after I learned to say I am sorry, I take the blame, I am at fault, my fortunes, financially took off. But the Pastora world does not lend itself to humility are self examination.
---mima on 6/7/10


Cluny, I don't have any problem saying "I'm Sorry" when I should. I remember being taught that by my Mother when I made my little sister cry.

I think that it is a sign of WEAKNESS for church leaders to "know that they did something wrong", but just can't, or won't, say "I'm Sorry".

That magazine article stated that it would be a DISASTER for the Catholic church if Pope Benedict said "I'm Sorry" and/or apologized for the misdeeds of priests and his covering things up. Really?

The Bible says that we're ALL "imperfect" and should "confess" our wrong-doings to each other. Are you listening Pope Benedict?

Maybe I need to leave the Catholic church.

---Sag on 6/7/10


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The rcc the mother apostate church Thinks that can get by with just about anything cheating, murder, dirty politics, drunkeness, adultery, killing (as what they did with nero & the great crusades killing the early Church saints) etc, even saying they'r not sorry.
At the white - throne judgment of God. They may have a chance to say they'r sorry, then it'l be to late for them as they step off into the lake of fire, & it's their choice they made, & this goes for the rcc's daughters churches also.
---Lawrence on 6/7/10


As we all know, the secular MSM reports accurately and dispassionately on anybody's church or faith.

The real question you should ask yourself, Sag, is: Are YOU willing when occasion demands it to say you're sorry?

Forget about other people--just concentrate on yourself.
---Cluny on 6/6/10


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