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Is Predestination Biblical

Predestination true or false? It seems in order to accept it you have to believe that God created some of His children specifically to fuel the fires of hell. What is your opinion?

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Miche3754 // You have to be adopted first before you can be pre- destined//
How can anything come BEFORE predestined? Adoption implies some thing new, a change in staus.
The word predestined (from Latin). means ordained beforehand.
---Donna66 on 6/14/10



Because you are missing the KEY words in those verses and listening to misinterpretations of them.

The Key words are "IN CHRIST".
You are nothing but a sinner dying and going to hell until you accept Christ. When accept Christ THEN you become adopted and predestined by God.
---miche3754 on 6/14/10


Miche, you give a lot of talk and no Scriptures to support what you say. As I said to Alan, that a wrong gospel will not bring salvation. A person can believe they are save and not be. Grace is the unmerited favor of God. No one can resist that favor, since all who receive it are dead in their traspasses and sins. They are dead spiritually to all spiritual matters. A dead person cannot talk, refuse, feel, understand, see, or hear.
When Lazuras was dead, and Christ called him forward, you did not see Lazuras refusing to wake up. "Did he say, Lord, I do not want to wake up, I refuse to wake up" No, he woke up and came forward because life was given to him. Wake up to the Truth.
---Mark_V. on 6/14/10


Okay,
God does the drawing- TRUTH
Then what happens?

There's no such thing as irresistible grace.
Once God draws you, you have 2 choices.

You either believe God's word and get saved
or you reject his word and die and go to hell.
God doesn't make the choice for you.
He presents it to you and lets you choose.
It's Christ who is predestined.
We don't become predestined until we get adopted by God through Christ.
God doesn't choose who he saves.
He sent his son to redeem/save the WHOLE world not just some who think they are "elite".
God doesn't say "I give you grace, wait you aren't chosen by me from the beginning, sorry, I can't save you."
Some need to understand HOW God saves.
---miche3754 on 6/13/10


Alan, you say it is you again to challenge me, when you do not have any Scripture to challenge with. It is all opinions again just like before. Either God chose you by having mercy on you before the foundation of the world, or you were kind enough with your wisdom, and kindness that many others do not have to have mercy on Him. You have made your choice. Is it not you, in your sinful nature who has pride in yourself for having mercy on Him? Where does the glory go? To you. So when you are at the gate, you will say, "You should thank me Lord for chosing you"
Everyone deserves the wrath of God for rebelling against Him, the miracle is, that He saved any, for He could have chosen to save none.
---MarkV. on 6/13/10


Miche3754 // You have to be adopted first before you can be pre- destined//
How can anything come BEFORE predestined? Adoption implies some thing new, a change in staus.
The word predestined (from Latin). means ordained beforehand.
---Donna66 on 6/14/10




Considering all the understanding of the Bible and its verses in context, do you believe that the two extremes of predestination and free will are concepts that actually coexist?

Do you think that some are predestined to spread the Gospel (like Jesus) to 'whosoever' and to show God's power (like the Pharaoh)?

Wouldn't it make sense that they are symbiotic in function and not in denial of each other?
---aka.joseph on 6/14/10


Alan 2, I had no dad, just a mom. She gave what she could. God's gift is eternal life, you cannot give that gift back. So your theory is wrong.
None of you say you take the glory or you earned the salvation, but not saying it doesn't mean you are not doing it. You can deny what you are actually doing all you want. You are chosing Him and not Him chosing you. You imply you are having mercy on Him because He wants to save you so bad but you won't let Him, and when you do, you are been good and kind and merciful to Him. Because you, a sinful creature at that, have the power over God. Here, I want you to think of this, a person is not saved if he has the wrong gospel. He might think he is, but a wrong gospel saves no one.
---MarkV. on 6/14/10


no "calvinist" with any understanding believes that... "God created some of His children specifically to fuel the fires of Hell"...you cant begin to make sense of predestination til you settle in your heart Gods sovereignty, foreknowledge etc He had a plan from the beginning,that plan has never changed because there is no shadow of turning with Him...its a flawed argument to say less,why make Angels when some will rebel then why make man,for all that suffering?..that line of reason just makes the "GOOD LORD" to seem like He is not in control--but He is!
---richard on 6/13/10


MarkV Yes it's me again to challenge your nonsense about when we say "Yes please and thank You" we are taking glory for ourselves.

Did you Dad chide you when you accepted presents on your birthday? Was he upset when you expressed gratitude and unwrapped them? Did you ever think you had earned those presents?

None of us say that we have earned salvation, none say we take glory in it, none of us say God should be grateful to us for choosing Him ... but you accuse us of these things.

Are you sure Mark that you are not claiming exclusivity in that you have been chosen while others have not ... a form of pride?
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/13/10


Miche, you fight with everything in you to give the glory to man. That is sin itself. You will not listen to what Bill-bela, Donna66, Micha, and many others say. Catherine speaks truth when she says, no one deserves mercy, we all deserve wrath. No works of ours can ever save us, yet you claim you do the choosing. It's nice of you to choose Him with your abilities. Every answer you give, you do your best to try to find a way to give the glory to man. It is God who draws you to Himself and brings live to you. It is God who takes you from darkness into the light. You cannot do that on your own.
How can you ever believe the God of Scripture? we cannot make you, or force you, It takes for the Holy Spirit to reveal the Truth to you.
---MarkV. on 6/13/10




Miche3754 --I think you somehow misread what I wrote. I said.
And do you believe that God has nothing to do with how we choose?
---Donna66 on 6/12/10

Sis, if you had read my post thoroughly, you would have saw that I did answer that question.
Here is what I said.

"He has everything to do with it.
Who do you think GIVES THE CHOICES!?
GOD.
God provides the choices and ALLOWS you to choose."
With predestination, people miss the words "IN CHRIST". So, it is not God chose us, but God chose those IN CHRIST.
You have to be in Christ to be chosen for predestination. Paul also use adopted. Think on that word...ADOPTED.
You have to be adopted first before you are predestined.
---miche3754 on 6/12/10


John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
God knows: your heart: your choices: what your going to have for dinner next friday and the next vehicle you are going to buy even though you will choose them.
God's sovreignty and man's choices go hand in hand.
Gen 50:20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me, [but] God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as [it is] this day, to save much people alive.
Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.
---micha9344 on 6/12/10


Miche3754 --I think you somehow misread what I wrote. I said.
And do you believe that God has nothing to do with how we choose?
---Donna66 on 6/12/10


Yes, the Bible says to choose. But why do people equal in sin make such unequal choices, for and against Jesus??? I offer, that God makes the difference, because "No one is good but One, that is, God." (Luke 18:19). Humans in sin are not good, so they can not make a good choice, "on their own".

I offer it is like how Jesus spoke the word and the sea and air became so calm (Mark 4:39), "contrary to their own nature". God's word accomplishes what *God* means (Isaiah 55:11). So, when it says "choose", this is God's word which works to have a person choose. God makes the change in nature, then one chooses what is good. So, the thanks and worship is purely to You (2 Corinthians 3:5, Romans 6:17).
---Bill_bila5659 on 6/12/10


Every man is given a measure of faith.
What they do with that faith is their choice.

And don't say men don't have faith because ALL mankind has faith.
The question is where are they placing their faith? Is it upon men(the world and what worldly people do) or is it on God? Most place it on items or other men instead of God.
There's this kind of faith and there is the faith given by God AFTER we are saved.
ALL of us have faith in something.
It is Grace that is the gift of God and the more faith we have in God the more he gives us, Increasing that faith so that no man can boast.
---miche3754 on 6/12/10


I never said that God has nothing to do with it. He has everything to do with it.
Who do you think GIVES THE CHOICES!?
GOD.
God provides the choices and ALLOWS you to choose.
God gave every single saint in the Bible the choice to serve him. God didn't make them. He Asked them.
People who are broken and contrite choose God. That's what the word says.
He will let you fall and get so broken that you choose HIM.
YES, he sits back watches and waits. God is patient, long suffering NOT wanting ANY to parish.
That's the Word of God.
Right now, we are seeing a God of Grace, mercy and LOVE. Once Jesus comes back, thats it, it won't be those things anymore, it will be God's wrath, if you didn't choose him, you deserve that wrath.
---miche3754 on 6/12/10


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Micha, great passages. But who will choose the Lord? Only those who have genuine faith in the Lord. And where do they get this genuine faith? From God. Genuine faith that comes from God as a gift has works. It is not common faith which has no works. The world has that common faith. With that faith in their fallen state they could not choose the Lord. That same call that was given to those people in those passages has been given to all who have heard the Truth of the Gospel of Christ and only those who have genuine faith with works will believe in Christ and His resurrection. Without genuine faith, they will never choose Christ. Every time the gospel is given the same call goes out, choose whom you will serve. And many will reject that call.
---MarkV. on 6/12/10


Now you are saying that the Word of God is false. That your interpretation is correct. That Scripture doesn't mean what it says, but means what you say.
---MarkV. on 6/11/10


First, Brother, I am NOT saying the word of God is false... IT IS 100% TRUTH.

I am saying YOUR interpretation is false.

I say yours is false because yours directly contradicts what Christ actually came and DID.
It contradicts the fact that GOD loves the world SO MUCH he sent his son to pay for ALL OF THE SINS OF ALL MANKIND.
If your version was correct it would not cancel out these simple truthful verses. It would witness to them.
---miche3754 on 6/12/10


Micha 2: Here is what it says of those whom you mention that were ask to choose, and why they didn't,
For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them, but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said, So I swore in My wrath, they shall not enter My rest' although the works were finished from the foundation of the world."
The spiritual rest which God gives is not something incomplete or unfinished. It is rest which is based upon a finished work which God purposed in eternity past.
---MarkV. on 6/12/10


Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
Jos 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
Isaiah 7:15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
---micha9344 on 6/11/10


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Miche3754 -- And do you believe that God has nothing to do with how we choose? Must He, almighty Creator of everything, sit back and just hope that you will choose Him? Those who are smarter or wiser or more sensitive of softer-hearted or whatever other virtue you can think of... choose God.

I won't pursue this subject. The question has been around as long as Christianity has. How much or how little people have to do with their own salvation will never be proved...there are Scriptures supporting both sides. I think we can agree on this: Phl 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death,
---Donna66 on 6/12/10


Where does the Bible say that Jesus came to GIVE US A CHOICE?
Jesus came to redeem sinners!- donna66


That is right, Jesus came to redeem sinners.
Before Christ came we did not have a choice..... WE WERE DEAD IN OUR SINS! PERIOD.

NOW Because of him, we can choose God and everlasting life, or choose to stay in sin and everlasting death.

God is a righteous God and all the things you said BUT first and foremost, God loves his creation. He doesn't want any of to go to hell so he sent his son that we may have LIFE! All we have to do is choose.
---miche3754 on 6/11/10


//If God already had chosen who to save from the beginning, why waste time to send Christ. Why send his son to suffer when God had already made the choice for us? .

Where does the Bible say that Jesus came to GIVE US A CHOICE?
Jesus came to redeem sinners!

God is totally righteous and just. He does not accept sin. He could not accept any sinner unless the penalty for their sins was paid for. Jesus came to pay that penalty.

Those who desire to know God, come to Jesus because God has chosen them. All men are sinners. They cannot know God without HIS mercy and Christ's redeeming power...that's why the Father sent Him.
---Donna66 on 6/11/10


Well, God is not an unjust God, we all deserve hell. But, because of Hs love and His grace He came did the job and He left, So, all would not perish but have everlasting life..... Hallelujah! Without Jesus none would have been saved....The reader of Scripture ought not be surprise that it presents a God who is truly Sovereign and powerful. All believers knows this and can shout....John 8:44>>>"you are of your father the devil". They rejected the truth. God, who is all-powerful in the universe, has foreknown and predestined the course of human history and the lives of individuals. If He were not in complete control of human events, He would not be Sovereign and, thus, would not be God. Scriptures: Eph. 1:11, Col. 1:25, 27, 2:2, 4:3.
---catherine on 6/11/10


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That addition makes it even better (and totally correct in my opinion).
---aka.joseph on 6/11/10


The Bible says that GOD so loved the world. John 3:16

Predestination negates this passage. In Calvnism GOD only loves some and others he created so he can keep them alive and torture them for all eternity for doing what he made them do and be.

That is not a GOD of love and one who loves everyone. Nor is it a GOD of justice.

It is a little like killing all dogs in the world because they are not cats.
---Samuel on 6/11/10


AKAJOSEPH is on top of this
very well said, the plan of salvation is predestination.

Can i add that those who accept the plan ( and the man) are predestined to salvation
---francis on 6/11/10


"Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?" (Romans 9:21)

So, each vessel has God's purpose. There are people who will not reason, except if fire is "negotiating" with them. There is "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience." (in Ephesians 2:2) And hell is the flaming sewer for this spirit of filth of pride and lusts and unforgiveness, etc. Just don't volunteer to be a sewer bucket for this stuff, if you don't like the idea of going where vessels for dishonor are helping to carry Satan's filth of selfishness.

Be a vessel running over with God's living and loving waters (John 7:37-39).
---Bill_bila5659 on 6/11/10


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MarkV referenced Ephesians 1:3-5. This part of v. 5 was left out:

-- Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself."

the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself = "plan of salvation"

therefore

-- Having predestinated us unto "the plan of salvation"

Some stick with v. 4 and some go onto v. 5. I will read on and stick with predestination of the plan. To me, v. 4 is an awkward verse that can be argued both ways. (Please there is no need for part 1, 2, 3... )
---aka.joseph on 6/11/10


Miche, the reason you cannot find what you said is because what you said is not true. What the Word does say is,
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ. (Now hear this) Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love" The word even says, "According to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the beloved"
Now you are saying that the Word of God is false. That your interpretation is correct. That Scripture doesn't mean what it says, but means what you say.
---MarkV. on 6/11/10


I apologize for lumping SDA with those others. Sometimes my fingers and my brain are doin' two different things.
---aka.joseph on 6/10/10

No problems.

The main difference between SDA and other denominations is that SDA truely beleive n an UNCHANGING GOD, and because of this we behave differently.

In practice, we eat nothing unclean, do not wear makeup or jewelry, Keep the 7th day as a day of rest.

In belief, we believe that people go to heaven not at death, but at the resurrection. We do not believe that people burn in hell forever.

Those are the major differences between SDA and all other religions.

the only doctrine unique to SDA inour sanctuary teachings.
---francis on 6/10/10


francis,

I apologize for lumping SDA with those others. Sometimes my fingers and my brain are doin' two different things.
---aka.joseph on 6/10/10


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//If God already had chosen who to save from the beginning, why waste time to send Christ. Why send his son to suffer when God had already made the choice for us? No where in God's word have I ever read that.// - miche3754 from another blog

Not only that...why are the 'chosen people' sent out to teach the Gospel? "Here's what we get and you cannot have it." this would just add more cruelty to predestined cruelty to those who are not chosen.
---aka.joseph on 6/10/10


And Miche, wrote it wrght, she said,

"only those IN CHRIST are predestined to go to heaven."

And that is true, predestination is that if you accept christ ( in christ) you will go to heaven. It is not an idea that suggests that God created some to go to heaven, and some to go to hell.

God does every thing he can to get everyone in heaven. Hell was not even made for human, it was made for satan and his angels.
---francis on 6/10/10


Amen AKA Joe, Bill did an excellent job. So has Francis.

God has predestined those who believe in Christ to be conformed to HIS(Christ) Image.

We must remember context when we are talking about a subject like this.
Personally I love the KJV Bible. BUT, it has many pitfalls and can misunderstood when one does not have discernment.
Its the Plan of God that God set and predestined from the beginning NOT individual people.
Many don't comprehend this because they follow a man made doctrine instead of studying the scripture for themselves. They cherry pick and not take scripture as a whole.
Salvation is to whosoever believes and accepts this FREE gift of God offered to ALL mankind from the beginning.
---miche3754 on 6/10/10


God knows who will be in His 1 & only Church, those that endure to the end will be saved.
---Lawrence on 6/10/10


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And Miche, wrote it wrong, she said,

"only those IN CHRIST are predestined to go to heaven."

The words of hers should have said,
"only those in Christ Were predestined to go to heaven from the foundation of the world"
Because all that the Father chooses from the foundation of the world are His elect, the called out ones, and all will be in Christ. Some are not born yet, and they too if predestined, are going to be in Christ when their time comes. No one knows who they are. They will have to be born of the Spirit, with faith that comes through the Word of God, and they too will be in Christ. Only those will be baptist into One body, with Christ as the Head of that body.
---MarkV. on 6/10/10


The 1600 years is uncertain, I accept that

There was a dispute between St.Augustine (who lived somewhere before AD500) and Pelagius, who lived sometime around AD400, I think

Pelagius believed in free will, while Augustine believed in predestination
---James on 6/10/10


Bill_bila5659 on 6/9/10

that was really good bill. It was already determined that we were to take on the image of Christ not using assumption but employing examination.

After all, weren't we made in His image? Now, God has given a way back.
---aka.joseph on 6/10/10


James, I do not know about it been 1,600 years but it has been since 1610 a year after the death of James Arminius, same first name as you. When his followers not James, drew "five articles of faith" base on the teachings of James, and brought them to the State of Holland in a form of a "Remonstrance". Or protest. The Arminians insisted that the Belgic Confessions of Faith and the Heidelberg Catechism, which were the official expression of the doctrinal position of the Churches of Holland had to change to what was in the "five articles of faith they had drawn. The Church refuse all five, called them heretical, and gave five articles back in return to the five they had protested about. There was no arguement, God rules.
---MarkV. on 6/10/10


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only those IN CHRIST are predestined to go to heaven.
This goes back to salvation. The Grace of God has been given to all mankind by/through Jesus Christ. All you gotta do is believe/accept it.
He didn't leave anyone out. He didn't create anyone to go to hell. Hell was created for the Devil and his minions. The difference between US and sinners is we accepted Gods gift of Grace by believing Jesus is God's son. Once we believed, we received the Holy Ghost and he is teaching us all the things of God right now. By the Holy Ghost we are sealed, predestined, adopted, elected to be conformed to the image of Christ and receive Heaven as the reward for finishing the race.
I don't care what Calvin has to say. I know What God says.
---miche3754 on 6/10/10


Back to the ancient Pelagian/Augustinian argument

The church has argues about this for 1500 years and more

I tent to agree with predestination, though I cannot that I like it...... the Bible indicates that
---James on 6/10/10


The main thing about predestination is that ones who are God's children have been "predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren." (in Romans 8:29) And so, the main thing predestination calls for is what Paul commands: "Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith." (in 2 Corinthians 13:5) We are not told to assume, but "Examine". And Paul is clear which faith he is talking about: "faith working through love." (in Galatians 5:6) Faith working through God's love (Romans 5:5) has us becoming loving like Jesus, as John has written, "because as He is, so are we in this world." (in 1 John 4:17)
---Bill_bila5659 on 6/9/10


Francis, here is your passages.
John 3:15, "Whosoever believed in Him, should not perish, but have eternal life"
Who will not perish? Whosoever. what does it mean? ---MarkV. on 6/9/10

Simple, look in the mirror, that person looking back at you, that is whosoever.
---francis on 6/9/10


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Miche, I do not recall ever calling you names. Though I heard you call me names. Lets get something clear. You stand for man and I stand for God, and you get angry just like some of the others and resort to name calling. Every time you hear about God you come to the defense of man. God cannot do this, God cannot do that, but when it comes to man, he can do what he wants and God has no say in it. Sorry, you are wrong. God is on the Throne. I was surprise you didn't take the side of Fay. With your man centered theology I was expecting that. I hear what Steven had to say, and some others and it didn't surprise me that you cannot discuss anything of God in a godly manner. I am not afraid to stand for the Almighty power of God and He is no wimp.
---MarkV. on 6/9/10


Rosalie, very good points.
I have spoken them so many times, but this people believe that while spiritually dead, blind, deaf, and a sinful heart, they can accept or reject Christ. Now if that isn't the most rediculous man centered lie. Can a blind man see? No. Can the natural man receive the things of the Spirit of God? No. They are foolishness to him. "And you did He make alive, when ye were dead through traspasses and sin, where ye once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers f the air" Eph. 2:1
While lost dead in sin, under the power of satan, God made us alive. Did we ask to be made alive? No. We could not do anything, we were dead. We were dead in sin. Separated from God.
---MarkV. on 6/9/10


Markv,

Do you believe that a murderer who BELIEVES in Christ and still murders is still saved?

According to God's word..... NO.
You are full of Calvinist teaching. That is WHY you don't understand the truth when it is given to you about predestination.
John 3:16 is a direct contradiction for the TYPE of predestination you have been taught.

Instead, you STILL after all these years, continue to bear false witness and call people names simply because they do not agree with you.
How can you sat I don't understand when we have had this disagreement for years?
---miche3754 on 6/9/10


Francis, you said,
Predestination is that God has predestined that all who accept him will be save" First, where can we find that passage? Nowhere.

So what you are saying is that salvation is by works. For if God has to wait for you to accept Him, by your works you are rewarded salvation. That is again man centered theology. Salvation by works. Replacing God with man. You can come when you wish or leave when you wish. You have the power and God is helpless to do anything. Not only that but God will reward you for accepting Him by your works.
Francis, thanks for having mercy on Christ and accepting Him. Your works were great.
---MarkV. on 6/9/10


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Francis, here is your passages.
John 3:15, "Whosoever believed in Him, should not perish, but have eternal life"
Who will not perish? Whosoever. what does it mean? The word is Pas, refers to "everyone" or "one individual." it can stand alone, "anyone" and "everyone." Therefore anyone who believe in Him, should not perish but have eternal life" Simple. 2. John 3:16, What does does it say? It says that God loved the world so much that He gave His only begotten Son, that if anyone or everyone believeth in Him, should not parish but have everlasting life" simple passage.
Means that if you have believed in Him you have eternal life. If you didn't believe you have nothing.
---MarkV. on 6/9/10


part 2: Miche assumes a lot of things, because none of it is in Scripture. God is unlimited in His power or in any of His resources, no unforseen emergencies can arise, and to Him the causes for change have no existence. To suppose that His plans fail and that He strives to no effect, is to reduce Him to the level of His creatures. "But God does according to His will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth, and none cans stay His hand, or say into Him, What doest thou?" Dan. 4:35. "In whom we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of Him who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will" Eph. 1:11. Does this sound like your God?
---MarkV. on 6/9/10


..................And them He also "foreknew".......The bible states a Fact and when you study to understand what God is saying you begin a path towards "rightly dividing the word of truth"...for instance study will point you to the fact that God is "GOOD"...(if only the Pharisees could have grasped that much they wouldnt have wasted their time trying to tempt Jesus).
---richard on 6/9/10


Do you care about the plight of the Palestinians, or the brown pelican?
I have children, and I hope they will have children and tomorrow's earth will be more like a heaven than what it is becoming now.
---atheist on 6/8/10

Pray to your pelican, he will end up in the same hell/grave.
You hate your children. Whatever sin you think you have committed separating you from GOD does not separate your Children. You hate them enough to take them with you to your endless grave. br>You hang here looking for justification from sinners like you to confirm your good. Won't work. You are "Anti". Ignorance won't work,you keep learning....pray Atheist. For your children.
---Trav on 6/9/10


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Atheist,
notice that word "sin"? That is what I am supposed to be worried about.
If you were saved, you would have understood what I said. But since you are in the world, I will over look your ignorance.
I said nothing about caring about the plight of people in this world. We are called to LOVE.
You are confusing what I said with something else. Your fleshly mind does not comprehend the truth of God.
---miche3754 on 6/9/10


Predestination is that God has predestined that all who accept him will be saved. -francis on 6/8/10
Scripture...witnesses for this are where?

I've found some, concordanced by words, for ever. Everlasting.
I'll look tomorrow.
---Trav on 6/8/10

Isaiah 45:4
For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
Isaiah 65:22
They shall not build, and another inhabit, they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
1/12th of Israel could be liars/imposters. 11/12ths of Israel no one knows where they are? GOD does....
---Trav on 6/9/10


Predestination is that God has predestined that all who accept him will be saved. -
cripture...witnesses for this are where?

John 3:15 That WHOSOEVER believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH on me should not abide in darkness.

i AM THAT WHOSOEVER. i WAS NOT CHOOSEN ON PURPOSE FOR HEAVEN OR HELL. i AM THAT WHOSOEVER WHO CHOOSE TO BELIVE AND THUS IT IS PREDESTINED THAT I BE SAVED AND FORGIVEN
---francis on 6/8/10


It is difficult, but not impossible, to change fated-theodicy. With prescribed fate we still have Freewill, and can choose to deviate from predestination. The Scriptures give numerous accounts of God changing his mind about what he purposed to do to people, all depending upon how they choose to live. The righteous are blessed and the disobedient are damned, and when the sinner rightens themself they too become blessed, this truth never changes whether you are saved or a nonbeliever.
---Eloy on 6/9/10


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Man's Nature is sinner right? Man is spiritually dead. How can a dead repent or hear the Word of God? How can a sinner, see himself? unless God work in miracle to these people...they were dead.

So God can truly save alone. We can't say we choose God? How could sinner chose God?

Unless God chose us...so we reply if we hear the Gospel.
---rosalie on 6/9/10


Miche is completely wrong, she teaches a man centered theology. She has no idea what Calvinist or Reformers teach only that she doesn't believe God is in control that man is. Arminian's like Miche assumes that the serious intentions of God may be defeated, and that man, who is not only a creature but a sinful creature, can exercise veto power over the plans of Almighty God. It is no wonder we have some that say they can heal anyone they want. And she is talking about a God who is outside of time, who has already seen the ending of His plan, that somehow man with his sinful nature in time can defeat that plan and change it. They even assume that the devil is defeating God's plan left and right. They do not know the real God of Scripture.
---MarkV. on 6/9/10


Predestination is that God has predestined that all who accept him will be saved. -francis on 6/8/10

Scripture...witnesses for this are where?

I've found some, concordanced by words, for ever. Everlasting.

I'll look tomorrow.
---Trav on 6/8/10


It's people that act ungodly, whether they claim a god or not, that this world is the way it is.
What is the standard used to tell how godly or ungodly a person acts?
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? [Is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Mat 25:35-36,40 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me... And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me.
---micha9344 on 6/8/10


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I am too busy looking at my own sin to bother with somebody else's.---miche

So you concern is making sure you get into heaven?

Or do you, hopefully, concern yourself with the suffering of others around you and that of future generations on this planet?

Do you care about the plight of the Palestinians, or the brown pelican? Do these things matter to you?

They matter to me more than whether or not I qualify for you your 'god's version of heaven or hell.

I have children, and I hope they will have children and tomorrow's earth will be more like a heaven than what it is becoming now.
---atheist on 6/8/10


Can someone explain to me why an omnipotent 'god', one capable of creating everything has left people, the pinnacle of his creation, in such a state of uncertainty and confusion?
---atheist on 6/8/10
SIN
---francis on 6/8/10


I know God created me to fuel the fires of hell because the devil hates me BIG TIME.

Funny you posted this because just last night I was crying to the Lord saying to Him, I'm not effecting your Kingdom, I'm not laying hands on the sick, not bringing millions of people into the Kingdom, I'm not raising the dead, all I'm doing is loving you and having a relationship with you and I'm getting attacked from all sides. Why Lord? I mind my own business, and people mock me when I say I'm praying for someone. My own family rejects me. I haven't done anything to warrant such betrayals and false accusations I get from people. So yes, now I'm going to use my spiritual weapons of warfare and smash the devil's head.I'm soo sick of his attacks.
---Donna5535 on 6/8/10


Athiest,
Start looking at yourself instead of everybody else.

When judgment day comes, I will only be judged for what I did, and no one else.
You will be judged ONLY for what You did, no one else.

Get your eyes off of the so called confusion and look in the mirror at yourself.
That is the only way you are going to find God.

I do everyday. God didn't make me judge and jury. I am too busy looking at my own sin to bother with somebody else's.
You should be doing the same.
---miche3754 on 6/8/10


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The following blog questions are at hand:

"How To Prove You Are Saved"

"Is Predestination Biblical?"

"What Must I Do To Be Saved?"


They denote quite a range of confusion about what 'god' expects of you, and has planned for you both in this life and the next, if there is one.

Can someone explain to me why an omnipotent 'god', one capable of creating everything has left people, the pinnacle of his creation, in such a state of uncertainty and confusion?
---atheist on 6/8/10


Steven, you take this scripture out of context.

It is about God showing his creation mercy and allowing them salvation if they ask for it.

God did not make you a mindless idiot robot that does what he wants AGAINST your will.
Anything done against the will of the person is FORCED. And God is not FORCED.
God is LOVE.
Who ever comes to God by HIS drawing (responds to his drawing, He will ask you to come but he won't make you) If you surrender to him, He who is the Potter will REMAKE the clay, His creation- YOU. But he is NOT going to force you.
God has shown mercy to all mankind by sending his son, Christ.

Lets remember CONTEXT when we are talking about what God says.
---miche3754 on 6/8/10


Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

as for me, I will belive God....
---steve-_rem7k on 6/8/10


The way calvinists teach it is......FALSE!

Francis does a good job explaining BIBLICAL predestination..

The key here is destination. God fixed to places for us humans to go after we die.
Those who accepted Christ as their savior are (pre)destined for Heaven.

Those who did not accept Christ as their savior before they died are (pre)destined for hell.

Can a person change where they are going? Yep. All they have to do is accept Christ as their savior, and they are then (pre)destined for heaven.

God does NOT make people to be destined for heaven or hell. He lets people Choose, otherwise Christ died in vain.
---miche3754 on 6/8/10


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Predestination is that God has predestined that all who accept him will be saved. -francis on 6/8/10

Amen!
---aka.joseph on 6/8/10


Ditto Francis!
---Leon on 6/8/10


Mima: although predestination is supported by scripture, I SUSPECT it is actually unimportant

GOD is outside of time, so He knew axactly how we would respond to all the evidence God gave us

God cannot PRE-destine us, because PRE means God did it before, and NOW DOES NOT

God is outside of time, so the PRO is useless for Him
---Peter3594 on 6/8/10


I would think that if what you say is true, that you 'god' if you exists is a rather sadistic individual. Especially if his ultimate purpose is to use them for firewood after watching them pass through life's gauntlet of pain, suffering, and temptation.

Given that chracter, why would anyone be encouraged to love and follow him. Even after doing so for a lifetime you would run the rick of not being on his list and endup sizzling while others who behaved not so well were chosen to be forgiven and watch you suffer from Heaven above at the side of 'god'.
---atheist on 6/8/10


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Although God has al knowledge, God has not created anyone and determined that these people would burn in hell. In other words, God does not make people for the reason of going to hell.

Predestination is not about people being born to go to hell or heaven.

Predestination is that God has predestined that all who accept him will be saved.
---francis on 6/8/10


Predestination and Election are biblical facts.

God choose some for salvation and being a member of his family and rejected others and the determination is a done deal and there is no action any one can take to change the outcome.

God loved Jacob but God hated Esau, God uses his own criterion of who he wanted and and who he did not want. He is God and did it his way and does not need any Monday Morning Quarterbacks changing his determinations.
---Friendly_Blogger on 6/7/10


"Predestination true or false?" True.
Foreknowledge is determining factor of predestination.
"For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren." Rom. 8:29 (NKJV)
"God's firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: "The Lord knows those who are his." And "God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew." 2Tim. 2:19>Rom 11:2 (NKJV)
The elect are the elect "according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit.." 1Pet. 1:2 NASB
"Having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will."
---josef on 6/7/10


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