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Mary Ghost Stories

Why do we have so many Mary Ghost stories?

Moderator - Because there are many demons available.

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 ---JOHN on 6/8/10
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"St Cluny, I'm not a Protestant.
I'm just a Christian" (John)

Saint John, you may not want to admit it, but you ARE a Protestant. Your beliefs/practices are akin to typical Protestantism, with some variations here and there. You are no different than a Lutheran or the Baptist. You follow your OWN interpretation of Scriptures (which is YOUR infallible rule, not Scriptures themselves) and have your own man-made traditions, while disregarding the Apostolic Tradition passed by the Holy Apostles and preserve by their Holy Successors, and the Early God-Bearing Fathers.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 6/16/10


The beauty of God's Plan is beyond measure within His design of the virgin birth-Word made flesh-Forgiveness of sin...etc....Mt2:23
Very subtle the enemy has made mary an idol.
Deut4:23-29
Ex20:4-5
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image,or any likeness [of any thing] that
[is] in heaven above,or that [is]in te earth beneath,or that[is]in the water under the earth:
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them,nor serve them:for[I] the Lord tjy God [am] a jealous GOD,....

We bow down in worship and to God-alone.

"After this manner therefore pray [ye]
Our Father...."
Mt6:9-15
---char on 6/16/10


I try to look at the heart of man, to see if its in the right place!
Sometime people say no one can see the heart of a man but Christ!
So I reminded them, no one can see God either!
God Bless You
---TheSeg on 6/16/10


St cuny,,,Haaaaaa.
---catherine on 6/15/10


St Cluny, I'm not a Protestant.
I'm just a Christian
---John on 6/15/10




\\I appreacaite the upfront and unabashed way the RCC and Othos are about their beliefs. less Hyprocritcal than most Protestants
---John on 6/15/10\\

But with PROTS like you, it's the infallible individual.
---Cluny on 6/15/10


That's a good point Strongaxe!

Believe me Protestants have their idols and popes too. They're just not as honest about it as the RCC/Orthos are.

The Lutherans have one Infallible Pope. "Martin Luther"

Though they would not admit to it. You never ever see a Lutheran Minister ever challenge Luther. To them, he is Their Mary or maybe Christ. As his word is above scriptuire in their Denomination.

You find the same in almost all protestant churches including the latest fad rock roll, Ricky Warren, idolising churches.

I appreacaite the upfront and unabashed way the RCC and Othos are about their beliefs. less Hyprocritcal than most Protestants
---John on 6/15/10


I woul like to clarify 'begotten' and 'firstborn' in my understanding at this time.
Jesus is the only begotten (Son) of God but He is also the firstborn from the dead.
We must know and maintain this difference to keep wolves in sheep's clothing at bay.
Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
'begotten' is His relation to the Father, 'firstborn' is His relation to us.
---micha9344 on 6/15/10


jerry, (can you?) please answer micha on 6/15/10?
About the first begotten son of the father, The Lord Jesus Christ.

The Duh is uncalled for, it make you look foolish.
This is not a game! Well, not to me.
---TheSeg on 6/15/10


John:

It's one thing when a Catholic who runs off after a supposed stigmatic, or image of Jeuss on a shroud, or face of Mary on a tortilla - happens to lose his faith if any of those are proven non-genuine. It's exactly the same thing when a Protestant runs off after a popular evangelist or miracle worker - and loses his faith when that person is proven to be a fraud. In both of these cases, the people's faith is misplaced - rather than believing in God, they believe in a sign, or a shrine, or a person. This is called idolatry.

This is in contrast with people who use such objects and people and events merely as aids to increase their own face in God, but not as objects of worship in themselves (so if they fail, it's no big deal).
---StrongAxe on 6/15/10




Moses was resurrected before Christ, the firstborn over all creation?
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
This sounds like a false idea trying to adhere to an incorrect doctrine.
---micha9344 on 6/15/10


---jerry6593 the answer to your question is the righteous never die. Their ceasing to exist here is more like the folk saying they "crossed over".
---mima on 6/15/10


Seg: "If the dead are dead!
Tell me how this is possible.
Mar 9:4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus."

Duh, they obviously weren't dead! Elijah never died - he was translated in a chariot of fire. Moses was resurrected right after the contention with Satan over his body (Jud 1:9). Thus, Elijah and Moses represent the two classes of the righteous to meet Jesus in the air at His second coming (1Thes 4:13-17).
---jerry6593 on 6/15/10


I really doubt if John knows ONE Orthodox, period, much less one whose faith was shattered by fraudulent miracles.

But I personally know several ex-penteprot pilgrims who went from one revival to the next, chasing after signs and wonders and miracle healing crusades, showing no discrimination at all, but simply believing the last thing they were told.

Because they glutted on such spiritual junk food, they don't believe ANY form of Christianity now.
---Cluny on 6/14/10


" various Mary Ghosts, Crying Icons, Padre Pio....When these are proven false, their faith is shattered!" (John)

No, John, my faith is not shattered when any "suppose" apparitions appear to Saints within the Eastern Orthodox community or crying icons, and in the end, it is proven false. My Faith does no stand on these. In fact, we are warn by the Church against any suppose apparitions. In manner of fact, within the Lives of Saints, there many stories about monastics and ascetics, many of whom went on to achieve genuine holiness, fell into delusion.

There is excellent Orthodox article online entitled "The Marian Apparitions : Divine Intervention or Delusion?". Good read.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 6/14/10


\\Unlike the RCCs and the Orthos worshipping various Mary Ghosts, Crying Icons, Padre Pio, and on and on and on. When these are proven false, their faith is shattered!\\

Not true at all, John (or however you're spelling or capitalizing your name now).

There is one particular reputed myrrh-streaming Icon that seems to have been a fraud.

I'm still Orthodox.

Because my faith is in Jesus Christ.
---Cluny on 6/14/10


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I believe the Shroud is real myself
based on all the latest scientific evidence.

If it is proven fake it will not shake my faith because I do not worship it. It is not a shrine.

Unlike the RCCs and the Orthos worshipping various Mary Ghosts, Crying Icons, Padre Pio, and on and on and on. When these are proven false, their faith is shattered!

My faith is based on Jesus Christ and what scripture speaks.
---JOhn on 6/14/10


Yea John, Im going to go with asked and answer!
But, this I do know! If a man

If Jesus had a whole in the palm of his hand we would fall.
Yea, I would have a real hard time believing something like this.


Here one for you, the Shroud of Turin real or fake.
Keep in mind if its real it is proof!
I believe it is!

For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

---TheSeg on 6/14/10


\\Cluny when you investigate a crime you DON'T just accept the suspects version and post it.

DO YOU????\\

But you do, John.

It's obvious you have your mind already made up about who's guilty, even when it's also clear you've done no research.

Actually, I'm not called upon to investigate crimes.
---Cluny on 6/14/10


The seq, Please read about him and let me know what you think. Check his website.

Cluny,I know Orthos do not believe in stigmata, but they do believe in other Demonics (i.e Crying Icons etc).

The story you gave of Padre Pio comes direct from the RCC spin of his bio. One needs to have an open mind and read non-RCC materal on this Con Artist. It goes as I had explained it.

Note the RCC do worship this man. You need only to look up his followers website to find the real truth. Not the suppose official RCC spin.

Cluny when you investigate a crime you DON'T just accept the suspects version and post it.

DO YOU????
---JOHN on 6/13/10


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John, I am not like most. I have no religion. I dont go to church. I never had or let anyone teach me the bible. I try to look at the heart of men. Is it in the right place? I never heard of its man, maybe there is a reason for it. I dont know.

But, this I do know! If a man, any man can bring you to believe in God.
He has done you a great service. If he brings you to believe in himself, he does you a great disservice.

I will now read up on this man. The cloves, do they cover the hand and wrist?
The wrist would be important, dont you think?
See Im not blind!
God Bless
---TheSeg on 6/12/10


You have things wrong about Padre Pio. (And this is not the only time you have done so.)

He was forbidden to display his stigmata before others (except when they were examined by physicians in private). He wore gloves all the time and removed then only to celebrate Mass, which most of his life was done in private.

As stigmatics to do not appear among Orthodox (despite your claim), we are not called upon to have an opinion about them.

BTW, Padre Pio was not canonized because he was a stigmatic. Actually, nobody has been.

But I suppose that objective facts don't appeal to people who have their minds made up.
---Cluny on 6/12/10


How about Padre Pio and his (as YOU call it)..."STIGMATA".

(Stigmata are bodily marks, sores, or sensations of pain in locations corresponding to the crucifixion wounds of Jesus)

Was he real or a CON MAN???

He would show his hands bleeding before a large crowd. But then he would put gloves on when he was in close. So people won't see his hands.

YET... He is one of the highest Saint and his "Stigmata" is considered authentic by the RCC. ORTHOS have similar saints.
---John on 6/12/10


John how about you can you give me an answer?
How is it possible?
Anyone!

I would say its not possible is it.
And yet it is!
---TheSeg on 6/12/10


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Rhonda: Right on! Don't sugar-coat it. Most Christians believe in the Greek philosophy of spooks "trapped" within our bodies that are magically "freed" at death. Never mind that this concept is never supported by scripture.
---jerry6593 on 6/12/10

DITTOS JERRY!
---John on 6/12/10


Rhonda, help me out here. Please.
I am not trying to be funny or smart.
These things are very serious to me.

Lets be clear here, ok! He said God!
Did he say When I Return?
Youre adding this, right. ITs Ok! Still in love!

And scripture STATES THE DEAD ARE DEAD.
Ok, I understand you! But please!

If the dead are dead!
Tell me how this is possible.
Mar 9:4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.

Now, Im not 100% sure they dead, but Im pretty sure they die, right?
So, how can they be walking with the lord?
Should one call this an apparition too?
I just want to be clear on this.
Thank you.
---TheSeg on 6/12/10


John:

And just how is it irrelevant? The Pharisees asked Jesus a question, not to elicit a response that they could learn from, but rather solely to trap him. From the tone of your question to Cluny, it sounded very similar, especially since it was about a matter (Catholic) that someone (Orthodox) did not need to have an opinion on. It makes about as much sense as asking someone from Idaho who they favor in the Alabama gubernatorial election, and then pressing them on the matter when they don't give you an answer.
---StrongAxe on 6/12/10


Keep your eyes open, keep looking for him!

But, if you were to stop, for just one second and really open your eyes. Know all the things that are your! Believe with your heart and not with your head. Put all the things in this world aside.
Look at your father and know he is your father.

When he said I will never leave you. Has no meaning for you.
You're looking for him to come back.

SO!
Look up in the sky! It's a bird! No, it's a plane!
NO! IT'S SUPERMAN!

For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
Because the kingdom of heaven IS WITHIN YOU!

And I'm just a sinner!
Amen!
---TheSeg on 6/11/10


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\\Why don't we see Ghosts of Peter, Paul or even Jesus. Where are their shrines?\\

Who's "we", Kemo Sabe?

Of course, Jesus is not a ghost, as He rose from the dead and ascended into heaven in His physical body.

But yes, people in the Orthodox tradition have had visions of the apostles and others.

But there's no point in discussing this with scoffers.

As someone here has repeatedly said, do your own research.
---Cluny on 6/12/10


Rhonda: Right on! Don't sugar-coat it. Most Christians believe in the Greek philosophy of spooks "trapped" within our bodies that are magically "freed" at death. Never mind that this concept is never supported by scripture.
---jerry6593 on 6/12/10


Stronag Axe your analogy is ivalid and irelavent to Clunys answer.

Absolutely no relationship between Clunys Cop-Out and Jesus responce to the Pharisee.

But it was a nice stretch and attempt to spin The obvious "Cop Out".

So now..

are these Ghosts Mary, Demons,
Mental illness, Hallucinations

How about the Ghosts of Padre Pio and other RCC Saints. Are they on Par with "The Blessed Mother" since they have similar shrines.

Why don't we see Ghosts of Peter, Paul or even Jesus. Where are their shrines?

OOOPS?
---John on 6/11/10


\\There is a difference between being incapable of giving an answer, and declining to give an answer.\\

StrongAxe, I answered John's question (which is more than he's done with mine). He just didn't like the answer he got.
---Cluny on 6/11/10


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Why, is it the dead are dead?
If you look, I think Christ clearly told you. He is not the God of the dead, but of the living!
*****

And He is the God of the living WHEN HE RETURNS to rule earth as promised in scripture

otherwise you believe Christ rules this sinful and evil earth today and dead are alive which is all antichrist to scripture

scripture STATES THE DEAD ARE DEAD only religious christianity DISMISSES this truth

Christ returns to resurrect ALL from the graves

there is ONLY one truth - religious christianity dismisses actual scripture that does not support their ideas INSTEAD using verses they distort to promote their fables
---Rhonda on 6/11/10


Why, is it the dead are dead?
If you look, I think Christ clearly told you. He is not the God of the dead, but of the living!

What if I told you!
Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man?

And what if I said
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, and shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Have ye understood all these things?
I would guess not!

But its ok, because there is so much more!
Like why would I thank you for not believing?
---TheSeg on 6/11/10


John:

There is a difference between being incapable of giving an answer, and declining to give an answer.

Perhaps you would also consider Jesus's refusal to answer loaded questions from the Pharisees and from Pilate to be cop-outs as well?

Not all questions require answers, especially ones about opinions. If you are preaching or proclaiming or arguing something, others have a right to ask you to justify your position, but otherwise, you can believe whatever you want without being accountable to others.

If I present my credit card to a vendor in order to purchase something, he earns the right to know my credit card number. If anyone else asks for it, I can tell them it's none of their business.
---StrongAxe on 6/11/10


If you are referring to apparitions such as those at Lourdes or Fatima, those are not "ghost stories".
Secondly, the saints, including Mary, are not dead. If they are in Heaven beholding the Beautific vision, they are more alive than you or I are.
People in Heaven are not somehow cut off from the body of Christ,unable to express their love for other members of the body of Christ.
---Matt on 6/11/10


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\\NICE COP-OUT! I guess you are incapable of anwering a simple YES or No question.

I surmise the answer is YES!
---John on 6/11/10\\

As you have repeatedly said to me when I've asked you a question, "Do your own research."

Not all questions can be answered with a simple "Yes or No", so don't fuss if you don't like the answer you get.
---Cluny on 6/11/10


However, I will say that as an Orthodox, I'm not required to have an opinion on these apparitions.

So I don't.
---Cluny on 6/10/10

NICE COP-OUT! I guess you are incapable of anwering a simple YES or No question.

I surmise the answer is YES!
---John on 6/11/10


\\The problem with "Strong Meat" is that it ends up rotten after just a short time.\\

John, are you not aware that St. Paul himself uses the phrase "strong meat"?

Hebrews 5:12
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God, and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
---Cluny on 6/11/10


"... it ends up rotten after just a short time." (John)

Not unless you preserve the meat with salt and eat it when it is good and delicious, but many of you here are digesting rotten meat.

The fact is that the Eastern Orthodox Church IS the True Church and has preserved the Holy Tradition (Holy Scriptures [who do you think canonized the Bible?], the Divine Liturgy, etc) passed by the Holy Apostles, there Holy Successors, and the Early God-Bearing Fathers. It was us who defended the Church from heretics such as Arians, Semi-Arians, Adoptionism, Apollinaism, Nestorianism, and others.

We DO NOT worhsip Idols/Saints/Mary or have a Pope (like the RCC), so you are liar and I rebuked you in Jesus name!

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 6/11/10


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"Your Pagan rituals are more extensive and heretical.....the RCC" (John)

Far from the truth. First, if you really want to go with the "pagan" speech (I heard that lousy argument many times) then by the same token, all Christians, including you, are pagans (ie.., pagans prayed, went to temples, etc) and FYI, there are many things in the Holy Bible that have "pagan origins" (for the lack of a better phrase) or "pagan counterparts".

There is a difference between practicing paganism, and symbols/rituals that happened to be used by pagans (and the Bible is filled with them). But such topic is too strong for many here, including you, who are still choking on breast's milk.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 6/11/10


Why do we have so many Mary Ghost stories?

Because many Christians don't really believe the Bible. The Bible says "the dead know not anything" (Ecc 9:5), yet most believe that the dead continue to live after death, as if life and death mean the same thing.

Mary is dead. She is not alive in heaven or anywhere else. She is therefore completely irrelevant except in an historical context.
---jerry6593 on 6/11/10


John, you ask a question. I out of the kindness of my heart answer it.
Look at all the name calling. Just want you to know.
All I can say to you is God has blessed you.
I can see by your words you are angry at me for what I believe.
Now listen I didnt give it, you ask me!

Now Ill tell you something, before you judge me.
You better know yourself better then you do.
This is not from me, this come from God!
I will always love you, more then you know right now!
God Bless you!
---TheSeg on 6/10/10


Satan is a deceiver: Mary is NOT Christ the Savior. There is no record of Mary saving any one, healing any one, praying for any one, nor dying for any one. Put your faith where it belongs, in Christ Jesus alone.
---Eloy on 6/10/10


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"This is "strong meat" and will be pointless discussing such topics in CN".
Posted by: Ignatius, Cluny,

The problem with "Strong Meat" is that it ends up rotten after just a short time.

This holds true with those of you who have a "Holy Than Thou Elitist Attitude" towards Christians.

FYI...

The Ortho is NOT the True church!. Far from it!

As you worship Idols, Mary,Saints, Popes and is drenched with Mysticism all based on Greek Mythology and Greek philsophies. Little of your church is Biblical. Nearly all is manmade Doctrines/Traditions based on Greek Paganism.

Your Pagan rituals are more extensive and heretical than anything the RCC could ever claim.
---John on 6/10/10


\\Cluny,

I already answered your questuion "DIRECT" from the Vatican. You can visit their site if you wish to verify.

NOW ANSWER MINE!
---JOhn on 6/10/10\\

Aside from the fact that you merely want credit for answering my question directly (not direct) from the Vatican, you have offered no proof that belief in these apparitions are to be required for salvation--that is matters de fide.

I, on the other hand, have offered evidence that these are NOT matters de fide.

And there are other questions in the past you have refused to answer.

However, I will say that as an Orthodox, I'm not required to have an opinion on these apparitions.

So I don't.
---Cluny on 6/10/10


"Whom else would a pious Jew...call "Adonai", if not YHVH, but the God of Israel?" Cluny

In addition to Jehovah, the Jews (even pious ones) applied the term 'Lord' to:

Christ- Mt 7:21, etc., etc.

Angels- Ge 19:1, 2, Da 12:8

Men- 1 Sam 25:24, Ac 16:16, 19, 30

False deities-1 Co 8:5

Those exercising ownership/authority- Ge. 24:9, 42:30, 45:8,9, 1 Ki 16:24, Lu 19:33, Ac 25:26, Ep. 6:5.

Younger brother to older- Ge 32:5,6

Officials, kings, prophets, etc- Ge 23:6, 42:10, Nu 11:28, 2 Sa 1:10 1 Ki 8:10-12 Mt 27:63

Children to their fathers- Ge 32:35, Mt 21:28,29

As a courtesy to strangers- Jo 12:21, 20:15, Ac 16:30

Sarah to Abraham- Ge 18:12
---scott on 6/10/10


"Your statement,"since Mariology is actually part of Christology." Is a Catholic lie which you adhere to!!" (Mima)

Mima, Cluny is not a Catholic. And let's get something straight. Christology is about WHO Jesus is. I bet you know nothing of the early Christological heresies and their history: Arians, Semi-Arians, Adoptionism, Apollinaism, Nestorianism, Eutycheanism, Monophysitism, Monothelites, etc. No....I don't think so. This is "strong" meat and will be pointless discussing such topics in CN.

And FYI, Mariology IS indeed part of Christology. Mariology is about WHO Mary, the Theotokos, is in RELATION to her Son, Jesus Christ.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 6/10/10


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John its TheSeg
Im sorry I did know you wanted a yes or no answer.
Yes, John!
My answer is yes!
But I dont believe its Mary.
I believe its the Blessed Mother Mary!
---TheSeg on 6/10/10


Cluny,

I already answered your questuion "DIRECT" from the Vatican. You can visit their site if you wish to verify.

NOW ANSWER MINE!
---JOhn on 6/10/10


\\Cluny Christology is a study about Jesus and Jesus's teachings.

Your statement,"since Mariology is actually part of Christology." Is a Catholic lie which you adhere to!!
---mima on 6/10/10\\

Where do you think Roman Catholics got it from but the Orthodox from whom they split?

In the mean time, keep blessing me.

**Can you answer a direct question with a direct answer?**

As directly as you answer questions I and others ask you, John.
---Cluny on 6/10/10


Cluny, The Seq,

Thanks for the Theological Desertations (be it drenched with convuluted logic).

However, the question I asked (Do you think it's actually Mary?) requires a simple YES or NO.

Can you answer a direct question with a direct answer?
---John on 6/10/10


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mima,

For the last time, Cluny is not RCC, he is Orthodox. I believe he has told you so. He know a lot about the histories of different churches. Just because Cluny presents different teachings, it doe not necessarily means he adheres to them.
---aka.joseph on 6/10/10


Cluny Christology is a study about Jesus and Jesus's teachings.

Your statement,"since Mariology is actually part of Christology." Is a Catholic lie which you adhere to!!
---mima on 6/10/10


\\ALL listed by the Vatican as "Holy Shrines" "Worthy of Belief". \\

This is not the same thing as "required to be believed," as they are ultimately PRIVATE revelations and public revelation stopped with the death of the Apostle John.

These apparitions are not even MENTIONED in the CCC, as I said earlier.

I checked this out with a Roman Catholic Priest, who said that nobody is required to believe in these apparitions as a matter of faith or doctrine or in any way at all.

I also asked a certified catechist of the local RC diocese, and he agreed.

They know what they are talking about. You, on too many other occasions, have made it plain that you do not.
---Cluny on 6/10/10


John, Ill tell you the truth. As I see it in my heart.

Ask me have I ever seen God?
Ask me have I ever seen Christ?
Ask me have I ever seen Mary?
The answer is no!

Now ask me what I believe?
I believe God! I believe his son was given all power on earth!
Not just some, but all the power there is to be given, by the only one who can give it, God my father. God everyone father!

If my lord Jesus the Christ of God allows something to happen here.
I cant care about what you think about it. I believe everything that happens here.
Be it, look like good or evil to you. serve but one purpose, God!
---TheSeg on 6/10/10


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"Our Lady"? I do not have a lady, therefore she is not my lady.
---Eloy on 6/10/10


OUR LADY OF FATIMA
OUR LADY OF LOURDES
OUR LADY OF GUADELUPE

ALL listed by the Vatican as "Holy Shrines" "Worthy of Belief". Every Pope wIthout exception has attested that these are actual visits from Mary.

This is the offical Vatican position.

Do you really think RCC members believe it is NOT part of their faith to believe that these demonic Ghosts are actually a Jewish Girl from the Middle East, that happens to looks like a Da Vinci paintings.

So Cluny, The Saq, and other RCC/Orthos DO YOU believe these ghosts to be actual visits of Mary or Demonic?

The Vatican sites several other Ghosts (apparitions) of Mary.

---John on 6/9/10


\\The proclamation that you cite (Luke 1) is "...meter mou kyrios." Meaning simply 'the mother of my (Kyrios) Lord.'\\

And who is the Lord but God?

Whom else would a pious Jew (especially the wife of a priest) speaking ARAMAIC or HEBREW call "Adonai", if not YHVH, but the God of Israel?

As for continuing along this line, since Mariology is actually part of Christology, it is pointless to discuss such strong meat in the presence of people on this list (and there are quite a few) who don't even believe that Jesus is God Incarnate!
---Cluny on 6/9/10


"In effect, she was calling her "Emma YHVH"--Mother of Jehovah!" Cluny, 6/9/10

Classic language of theological spin and reaching beyond the inspired text, words like= "In affect".

The proclamation that you cite (Luke 1) is "...meter mou kyrios." Meaning simply 'the mother of my (Kyrios) Lord.'

Nothing in this verse or account suggests that 'In affect' this Lord was Jehovah or that Elizabeth thought this to be the case.
---scott on 6/9/10


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Mat 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Is not everything God? You, me the rock I am standing on?
But, one must believe what one believes.
---TheSeg on 6/9/10


\\But, it kind of come down to is Mary the mother of God?\\

Yes.

As St. Elizabeth said, inspired by the Holy Spirit, "What is this to me that the Mother of my LORD should come to me?"

Luke 1:41-43.

Who is Lord but God?

In effect, she was calling her "Emma YHVH"--Mother of Jehovah!

The term "Mother of God/Theotokos" is really about who JESUS is.
---Cluny on 6/9/10


In 1917 the "demon" calling itself Mary spoke these words...

"Only I can help you. My Immaculate Heart will be your refuge and the way that will lead you to God." re: fatima stories.

John 14:6, "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

If this demon was really Mary the Mother of Jesus she would NOT be calling her Son and Saviour Jesus Christ a liar! By saying that "Mary" is the "Only one that can help you" is actually saying quite bluntly that Jesus Christ the Saviour of the World cannot and will not help you! this is blatant anti-christ teaching.
---kathr4453 on 6/9/10


I like going hiking. I also like the woods.
But its not till you get to a clearing, you can see them.
Because of all the trees that get in the way.

But, it kind of come down to is Mary the mother of God?
We stand there and say Jesus is God, Right!
Jesus is Mary son, is he not? Well, if Jesus is God, well?

I read how Jesus is the word of God made flesh.
At one point, he even said, I am flesh and bone, as you are.
Somewhere else he said God is a Spirit! Is a Spirit Flesh and bone?

Unless you know for sure, I wouldnt talk about his Mother.
Im just saying!
Please forgive me!
God Bless!
---TheSeg on 6/9/10


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A-men Moderator, the enemy knows that the real source of power is Christ Jesus alone, so if he can divert people to focus off onto anyone else, and especially some person in the Bible would be more acceptable, than he succeeds in misleading that soul into the sin of vain idolatry and into perdition and into condemnation.
---Eloy on 6/9/10


\\Cluny ...

Please give a list of Marian apparitions and explain them to us.

I shall await with interest.
---John on 6/8/1\\

In other words, you cannot answer my question about what you so vulgarly called "Mary ghost stories" are required to be believed.

FWIW, I just checked the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and Marian apparitions are not even mentioned in them.

Hence, they are not required to be believed.
---Cluny on 6/9/10


Cluny ...

Please give a list of Marian apparitions and explain them to us.

I shall await with interest.
---John on 6/8/10


\\Furthermore, nobody is required to believe in any of the reputed apparitions of the Virgin as a matter of faith.
---Cluny on 6/8/10
YEA RIGHT! I grew up Catholic and yes you are.

---John on 6/8/10\\

Please give a list of Marian apparitions that are required to be accepted de fide.

I shall await with interest.
---Cluny on 6/8/10


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Furthermore, nobody is required to believe in any of the reputed apparitions of the Virgin as a matter of faith.
---Cluny on 6/8/10
YEA RIGHT! I grew up Catholic and yes you are.

---John on 6/8/10


GOOD POINT MODERATOR!
---John on 6/8/10


When you were little you must have been scare of Ghosts..it seems that way!
---Ruben on 6/8/10

Especially Ghosts of Mary, since they are Demonic!
---JOHN on 6/8/10


\\A lot of people want to put the attention on Mary as the one to worship.\\

I know of nobody who gives Mary the worship of LATREIA owed to God alone, and what more, you don't either, even if you think you do.

If there are any, it's not because of the teaching of the church, but IN SPITE OF IT.

Furthermore, nobody is required to believe in any of the reputed apparitions of the Virgin as a matter of faith.
---Cluny on 6/8/10


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John* That all your hear from the RCCs
OUR LADY OF GUADELOPE
OUR LADY Of LORDES
OUR LADY OF fill (in the blanks)
or statue of Mary crying tears. some with blood.

Thanks John for the information:

Note: have you check the History of Lady of Guadelupe,Lores and Fatima...

John* In fact when you listen to Catholic "Relavent Radio" You hear stories every single day of Mary aparitions.
"The Blessed Mother appear to me and...."

When you were little you must have been scare of Ghosts..it seems that way!
---Ruben on 6/8/10


A lot of people want to put the attention on Mary as the one to worship. So they have to create stories to make her more special than she is. They'll do anything to take the focus off of Christ. Just another ploy of the devil to confuse people who don't read the Bible to know the truth.
---Reba on 6/8/10


That all your hear from the RCCs
OUR LADY OF GUADELOPE
OUR LADY Of LORDES
OUR LADY OF fill (in the blanks)
or statue of Mary crying tears. some with blood.

In fact when you listen to Catholic "Relavent Radio" You hear stories every single day of Mary aparitions.
"The Blessed Mother appear to me and...."

NOTE: Our Lady of Guadalope was a Pagan Mayan who saw the Indian serpent god NOT MARY. Then the Spanish put a sword to his throat until he said it was Mary. Which he had no idea who she was.

NOTE: All these ghosts of Mary have her as Da Vinci painting. She was a Semitec (Olive/dark skin) Jew.
---John on 6/8/10


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