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Thief On Cross Heaven Bound

Didn't the thief on the cross get into heaven under the Old covenant?

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 ---David on 6/8/10
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The 1 thief on the cross charged The Lord, Judas transgressed The Lord & then took his own life ( when you take your own life, your lost ). There's 2 that is lost in the O-Testament under Jesus & may be others we don't know about.
---Lawrence on 6/22/10


Further his name would be written in the Lambs book of life and it ain't been read yet, The thief could well be still in a place of keeping like the Saints since their deaths have not yet been avenged and they are still waiting. A thousand years is like a day to God so, who knows the concept of time concerning our Lord Time?

With all due respect for the question.. it proves nothing really, since God has everything in his hands. He said blessed are they who without seeing believe. Not thrash out the reality of every single consept! God is mysterious and his ways are past tryin to find out or did you not read that?
---Carla on 6/22/10


The Thief on the cross that repented was saved. All those who followed JESUS in the Old Testament are saved.

Those in the Old were saved by looking forward to the cross we are saved by looking back to the cross. It is not a matter of old or new. It is a matter of we are saved by JESUS alone.
---Samuel on 6/22/10


Job 14:7-14 For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease. .... But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up: So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.
---jerry6593 on 6/22/10


John had many things, SPECIFIC things to say. Why would he mention whether or not the thief was in Heaven? I guess it wasn't that important to him.
---Donna66 on 6/21/10




Carla, I'm sure heaven is much larger than that.
---fay on 6/21/10


Well when John went to heaven he did not mention seeing The thief there ,)
---Carla on 6/21/10


The thief on the other side of Jesus continued to mock Him, instead of recognizing His diety. Easy choice, I'd say.
---Donna66 on 6/20/10


Jesus chooses: He saved one of the dieing thieves, "Today you shall be with Me in Paradise". The other one died and went to Hell. Thank You Jesus for your Blood. Thank You for your power and grace.
---catherine on 6/20/10


Donna66: You may have missed the point. Here it is:

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens:

If David is not in heaven, why should we think that the thief on the cross is? Like most everyone else, he's in the grave awaiting the resurrection of the dead at the second coming of Jesus.
---jerry6593 on 6/18/10




chris: On the Heaven-Paradise dichotomy, consider this logic:

(1) God the Father's throne is in Heaven.

(2) The river of life flows from His throne.

(3) The Tree of Life spans this very river.

(4) The Tree of Life is in PARADISE!

(5) Therefore, either Paradise is in Heaven or a real river flows from Heaven to Hell - putting out the flames I suppose.
---jerry6593 on 6/18/10


jerry -- // Do you think a thief should go before him?// (i.e. David)

Not necessarily. (Thankfully, it's not up to US to decide!)
Jesus frequently shocked people by sounding quite illogical. An example is His parable of the employer who paid the same wages to those who worked an hour, as those who worked all day.
God Himself might have seemed unfair to choose a shepherd boy, rather than his larger and older brothers to slay a giant.
He was known to repeat something like the following. Luk 13:30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

God's ways are not our ways.
---Donna66 on 6/17/10


Some christians believe that paradise and heaven are two different places. For those who think this way, they say that heaven is where our Heavenly Father dwells, but paradise is where spirits wait until resurrection. So as in the scriptures cited just below, Christ said to the theif "today" and yet 2 days later he had not yet ascended to his Father (supposedly in heaven). Though Christ's spirit was laid in the tomb and was their till it rose, Christ (his spirit) was in paradise, which may have not been in heaven.
---chris on 6/17/10


Is King David - a man after God's own heart - ascended into heaven? Do you think a thief should go before him?
---jerry6593 on 6/17/10


because the original script had no punctuationmarks, is it possible that the copiers missplaced that comma?

I think so:

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee Today, shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Big difference huh. Now other bible verses support the second one.

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father:
---francis on 6/17/10


Continue in the verse where Jesus said, "Today, you will be with Me in paradise."
---RickeG on 6/17/10


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Why does SDA get that courtesy and others don't?
---aka.joseph on 6/16

You know I am also known as joseph LOL

The SDA church gets that courtesy because we are one of the very few churches that truely believe in an unchanging God.

While many protestant churches speak about an unchanging God, thier teaching reflect otherwise. They eat what they please, wear what they want, use 1st day ratherthan sabbath and so on.

For one who truely believes in an unchanging God, any passage that appears to show a change, must be examined very closely and not taken for granted. Look at this blog for example, It apprs that the theif goes to heaven at death. But that is not so at all.
---francis on 6/17/10


Whether under the old or new, we are told he did enter heaven

HOW is nor our job to ask

Just remember that he did
---peter3594 on 6/17/10


Thank you for this question. It certainly made me think. I do not believe the Bible ever contradicts itself so there must be an explanation. Possibly the comma was misplaced, "I tell you this today, thou shalt be with me in paradise." Upon further study, I find the word today could simply mean "now," also bearing the same meaning. Don't know why this never crossed my mind before. We cannot forget John 20:17. Thanks again.
---fay on 6/16/10


Francis #1/2, I got this from an adventist research website..."Does the Bible, in its nature, contain conflicting and inconsistent ideas and information? As with defining the nature of anything, we cannot and should not restrict our understanding of the nature of the Bible to these phenomena. In other words, what the Bible is is not fully defined simply by what it appears to us to be. An illustration might be helpful here. A rod plunged partially in a pool of water often appears to be bent. This is a phenomenon. However, there are causal reasons for the rod to appear to be bent, while it is not really bent...
---aka.joseph on 6/16/10


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Francis #2/2 "...In other words, just as with the apparently bent rod there were causal reasons to show that the rod was not really bent, these questions force us to ask whether there may be causal reasons for the apparent contradictions and inconsistencies in the Bible."

Why does SDA get that courtesy and others don't?
---aka.joseph on 6/16/10


And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise". Jesus let's all penitent believers know that when they die they shall go and be with Him there
---catherine on 6/13/10

So the theif on the cross went to haven same day he died, but jesus did not.
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and [to] my God, and your God.
---francis on 6/16/10


And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise". Jesus let's all penitent believers know that when they die they shall go and be with Him there.....Paradise>>>a garden of pleasure the paradise of God it is being with Christ there. That is the happiness of heaven. It is IMMEDIATE UPON DEATH. "This day shalt thou be with Me, tonight, before tomorrow".
---catherine on 6/13/10


A man once asked Jesus how he can have eternal life.Jesus replied with a thorough answer based on previous written religious records/scroll writtings.The answer for salvation and eternal life has always been on previous record and not a new thing Jesus brings to the jews.
Unfortunately doctrines of christianity side with Paul's atonement doctrine,not Jesus' straight foward answer to the above question of eternal life, whereas only through a sacrifice that God opens the way to eternal life and then he begins and exercises forgiveness.
So eternal life has always been for those who have done the answer Jesus once gave this man.
---earl on 6/12/10


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\\No one ever got to heaven under the Old Covenant?
Wher did Moses and Elijah come from in Matthew 17:2-4?
---David on 6/9/10\\

Elijah hasn't died yet.

Some say the Biblical data on Moses is ambiguous, and he might not have suffered physical death, either.
---Cluny on 6/11/10


those who lived before the death of jesus, looked forward in faith to the comming messiah. Their salvation was not in animal sarifices, or circumcision but in christ.

We today look back to the death of christ, in faith much like those who lived before christ did. Our salvation rests in the death and resurrection of christ.

Anyone who made it to heaven before christ died, made it the very same way we will. by grace through faith.
---FRANCIS on 6/10/10


I took it that he went to heaven under the NEW covenant, as he [presumably] died AFTER Jesus
---peter3594 on 6/10/10


1Cor 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward they that are Christ's at his coming
1Cor 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.
Samuel--1Sam 25:1, 28:12-19
Moses--Due 34:5, Mat 17:3
Elijah (Elias)--2Kin 2:11, Mat 17:3
Enoch--Gen 5:24
Christ being first of the resurrected body ascending to heaven
---micha9344 on 6/9/10


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where did Moses and Elijah come from in Matthew 17:2-4?
---David on 6/9/10

They did not go to heaven because they sacrificed animals. They went to heaven because they had faith in Jesus that he would die.

Every animal sacrificed was done n faith that Jesus would also die.

I propose to you, that had jesus not died, they would be put out of heaven.
---francis on 6/9/10


No one ever got to heaven under the Old Covenant?
Wher did Moses and Elijah come from in Matthew 17:2-4?
---David on 6/9/10


No one ever got to heaven under the Old Covenant.
Hebrews 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

Hebrews 10:4 For [it is] not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

they all sacrificed in FAITH that the Lamb of God ( jesus) would some day come and die.
---francis on 6/9/10


Mima: Why?? Do you imagine that God has abandoned His original purpose of having an earth filled with human worshipers??
Why do you think "new earth"?? just for animals?? Blessed are the meek!
Psl.37.29
Ecl.1.4.
Isa.45.18.
Hab.2.14
etc.etc..
---1st_cliff on 6/9/10


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1st. cliff you might want to reevaluate our rethink this statement,
"The thief will be in paradise (along with the rest of us)when Christ restores this planet back to the likeness of Eden."
---mima on 6/9/10


Jesus saved him right their on the cross. The man asked Jesus to remember him when He came into His kingdom, and Jesus did. So he was saved....[New Covenant] Good question.
---catherine on 6/9/10


No, his spirit went to paradise with Jesus.
---Eloy on 6/9/10


The reason I asked the question was because I find many believers discount repentance and baptism because of the Thief on the cross.
Did the Thief go to Heaven?
Absolutely!
But when did the New Covenant begin?
Hebrews 7:12 tells us that when the Priesthood changes, the Law must also change.
When did the Priesthood change?
Did Jesus become the High Priest of God when he was on the Cross, or after his resurrection?
It was not until after his resurrection.
So this being a fact, which covenant did the the Thief go to Heaven under Law of Moses or under the New Priesthood?
---David on 6/9/10


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The answer is NO Jesus was the 1st to go to heaven and that was not 'till 40 days after His resurrection!
The thief will be in paradise (along with the rest of us)when Christ restores this planet back to the likeness of Eden!
He swore by His dieing day "truly I tell you today! You will be with me in paradise"
The difference is "correct" punctuation!(not invented 'till the 14th century)
---1st_cliff on 6/8/10


This question normally starts the debate of how soon does the thief go to Heaven. I am glad of how it was phrased this way.

The thief will go to heaven but at the same time as every one else. As these events most occurs first. Christ return, the resurrection of the dead, you get your resurrection body, judgement, Christ creates a new heaven and a new Earth.For the reprobate, instant destruction in the lake of fire never to exist or be remembered again. For the elect all ready know they are getting in, but this is where works may play a part at this point with regard to Eternal Accommodations [Holiday Inn Express vs Motel 6]. Those who accomplish more get more.
---Friendly_Blogger on 6/8/10


Rather, only by Christ's mercy.

Don't take an exception, as St. Dismas clearly was, and make a rule out of it.
---Cluny on 6/8/10


He repented, Jesus said thou shalt be with me in paradise.
The Old covenant in other words under the law, even when Jesus was on the cross.
Jesus died was buried then resurrected & now we are under the dispensation of grace & people still have to repent. The God given salvation plan, Acts 2 v's 37 - 41 that God gave to Apostle Peter & he delivered it to the Jewish people First on the day of Pentecost. The Only Bible salvation plan, & God gave it to us gentiles also.
---Lawrence on 6/8/10


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