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What Is Sin

What is sin?

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 ---catherine on 6/9/10
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Donna ... Thanks ... This is what I have been trying to say!
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/20/10


Alan of UK --- I agree with you about the meaning. It's a common literary device called a metaphor. It's the same as "A mighy fortress is our God". I don't believe that God is literally a "fortess made of stone" either.
The Psalms and Proverbs are especially full of metaphors.
---Donna66 on 6/18/10


//Sin is transgression of the law. Where there is no law, there is NO sin.
Lets not make sin more than it is.//

Preach it, Duane!
---Linda on 6/17/10


Sin is transgression of the law. Where there is no law, there is NO sin.
Lets not make sin more than it is.
---duane on 6/17/10


Thirty-two years of that dung from me, aka Joseph. Thirty-two years of holding on to the back of a pew resisting the conviction of the Holy Ghost. What longsuffering! What mercy! What grace! What love!!!!
---Linda on 6/17/10




//If it were not for mercy, everyone who said "no" to Jesus the first time would not live to another chance. It is the goodness of God that leads a man to repentance.//
---Linda on 6/16/10

This was me many times over, and He is still picking up the pieces for me. Thank you, Lord.

Good post, Linda.
---aka.joseph on 6/17/10


Well put Linda!
---fay on 6/17/10


The mercies of God are new every morning. He is full of compassion. His tender mercies are over all His works. Yes, God is merciful. Mercy is us not getting what we do deserve. Grace is us getting what we don't deserve. Grace, mercy, and peace be multiplied to you all. It is too bad the church has projected the wrong image for so many years. Achan's whole family, innocent as they were, were stoned to death while God wept behind a veil that held mercy in the mercy seat. That veil has been rent. Mercy has indeed come running, not just to a special few but to all. If it were not for mercy, everyone who said "no" to Jesus the first time would not live to another chance. It is the goodness of God that leads a man to repentance.
---Linda on 6/16/10


Donna ... I know that!

But do YOU understand the words? Are they supposed to be literal?

To help me understand, can you answer the following questions?
Do you agree that Jesus was & is a person, not a thing?
Do you agree that sin is a thing, not a person?

Can a person become a thing? I don't think so, and so I don't think the words are literal. I just don't see how Jesus could become million of murders, rapes, thefts, lies.

I think the passage means He was taking the punishment for those evil things.
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/17/10


Alan of UK -- //I can't see how "Christ became sin" Seems a bit like a theo-buzzphrase.//
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/10/10

It's not a "buzzphrase" I comes from the KJV.

2Cr 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
---Donna66 on 6/16/10




First killing someone in war is not murder.
---Samuel

Okay.

But, most people in any country, believe in one god or another, and pray to that god to help them succeed in a war.

So is god on both sides in war and therefore killing in war is okay?

Or are people on both sides delusional and claim the support of god to justify the killing that they do?

So there is no sin involved or in my terms, a serious ethical issue, when children are killed, maimed and suffer, from 'collateral damage' in the exchanges between to god fearing peoples before they let loose their weapons of destruction?
---atheist on 6/15/10


Donna,

That's one mean god. No mercy for non-combatants.
---atheist on 6/15/10


First killing someone in war is not murder.

If your parents are hurting you the Bible does not demand that you stay in that situation or not tell the authorities that is a misuse of scripture.

Poverty around us is an indightment of Christians for GOD made provision and wrote it into His laws how those who follow Him should help the poor. GOD understands situations and He knows if a person is trying to live honestly or just an excuse. Many poor people stole Big Screen TVs to watch after a disaster was over.

We are sinners because we sin. Dear Atheist how long have you gone without telling a lie?
---Samuel on 6/15/10


mike -- Can you explain THIS by "logic"...this instruction from the Lord?

Deu 20:16 "But of the cities of these peoples which the LORD your God gives you as an inheritance, you shall let nothing that breathes remain alive,
Deu 20:17 but you shall utterly destroy them: the Hittite and the Amorite and the Canaanite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite, just as the LORD your God has commanded you,
---Donna66 on 6/15/10


donna66

this statement is somehow connected to the scenarios.

your answers mean that there are exceptions in the bible bec. life is not absolute & extreme. there is a hint that people should or sometimes use their logic in relation with the commandments.

and this is where it gets tricky bec. 'religion' & logic/understanding often collides. excersing a person's logic does not mean you lack faith but wisdom & it also depends.
btw good answer
---mike on 6/15/10


Poverty doesn't excuse stealing...there is always a better way available, if one looks hard enough.---Donna66 on 6/15/10

So does that apply everywhere in the world, just this country, your city, your neighborhood, or as far as you can see with your eyes closed without leaving your backyard?

There is a real world out there, and people are born into it without sufficient food, water, or options.

Greed doesn't excuse poverty...
---atheist on 6/15/10


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Mike--

YES all are trick questions, and some you've argued here before.

Thou shalt not kill-- (the word is better translated "murder".. (since it refers to killing humans). Killing in a just war is not "murder". The OT shows God, more than once, commanding his people to war and specifically to kill.

It may not be your fault you were raised in a dysfunctional home, but it is your responsibility to find the best healing you can. You need to forgive your parents (if you don't want a lifetime burden of bitterness) and treat them respectfully.

Poverty doesn't excuse stealing...there is always a better way available, if one looks hard enough.

Your last point will have to wait... No more space.
---Donna66 on 6/15/10


here is a trick question.
sin is disobedience, transgression etc.

so if that is the premise then what about these situation

you shall not murder. what about killing of enemy in time of war

honor your parents. what about abuse in the home. you end up dysfunctional later on in life

you shall not steal. what about living in poverty where no food & basic necessities for your family.

christ said deny your 'self'. how will you establish relationship if self is sin or finding work & doing your responsibilities as an individual

justification of sin or ????
---mike on 6/15/10


We're not sinners because we sin, we sin because we're sinners.
---micha9344 on 6/14/10


Whoa! You mean it is in your nature? It is what you do!?

Just can't help yourself?

No self-control?

Now that is really sad...
---atheist on 6/14/10


We're not sinners because we sin, we sin because we're sinners.
---micha9344 on 6/14/10


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I do not believe or do we teach in my church that you are guilty of sin before you commit sin.

We are guilty of sin because we commit sin we lie, steal, lust or commit adultery, covet, hate or murder and that does not even get to the way we treat GOD.

Sin is trangression of the law of GOD. It is also failing to love others and care for them.
---Samuel on 6/14/10


Francis, Exactly.

In the common vernacular,
"Christian", in context usuauly refers to a kinder gentler 'god'.

What I hear in these back and forths is one party claiming to be better than another because they have found the right god, scripture, and paths away from hell and toward heaven. The comfort that religion gives I can understand, but the divisiveness between all people, not just those of different religions is sad.
---atheist on 6/14/10


It is through the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ He forgave and remembered no more. However, as it is with any benefit, you must know what is covered, how much it cost, and how to apply it. A benefit package does you no good if you don't use it. You can be thirsty and have a glass of water sitting on the table right in front of you and still die. It isn't the existence of the water that will save you. You have to pick up the glass and drink it.
---Linda on 6/14/10


Even the earth groans waiting for the New Earth. However, Jesus died for man..not animals. Animals have no soul.
---kathr4453 on 6/14/10

This is confusing...The earth is not a living thing and so cannot groan, and has no soul either, unless your are a pagan and believe in the goddess Gaia, and so couldn't be recreated as an entity anyway.

Don't you think if we took care of the this earth we wouldn't be longing for a new earth?

I am curious why is your view of everything so homocentric? Why do earth and man have to be the center of everything, even to a 'god' who created everything? Couldn't your god attend to more than man and earth?

---atheist on 6/14/10


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I think he/ she has some valid questions. I did not know Adam nor Eve, I did not choose to be borne, so why is there a death sentence past on me as soon as I exitthe womb?

Why am I guilty before I even commit any sin?
---francis on 6/14/10


Are the descendents of Adam's dog born in sin?
---atheist on 6/13/10

IN Adam ALL sin, in Adam ALL DIE. athiest, all manking (not aimals) inherited Adams sin. Animals yes also inherited the consequences of a fallen race. Even the earth groans waiting for the New Earth. However, Jesus died for man..not animals. Animals have no soul.
---kathr4453 on 6/14/10


Sin was not the things we did. Sin was a much deeper issue. Sin is something we were born in because of Adam's disobedience.
---Linda on 6/13/10

If Adam was the first man, and God made him, and God is a loving god, don't you think that after all this time he could forget and forgive let babies be born without being born in sin (what does that even mean,---you-re going to Hell or what?)

Are the descendents of Adam's dog born in sin?
---atheist on 6/13/10


POST 1
---Haz27 on 6/13/
Before I go into deeper discusions let me give the texts:

By Gods own definition:
Malachi 4:4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, [with] the statutes and judgments.

Jeremiah 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

Jeremiah 7:23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you

CONTINUED
---francis on 6/13/10


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Even while asleep, an unbeliever, though not committing sinful actions or actively nurturing sinful attitudes, he or she still has a sinful nature that does not conform to God's moral law. Unbelievers are criminals in the eyes of God [John 3:4]....Before we were redeemed by Christ, not only did we do sinful acts and have sinful attitudes, we were also sinners by nature. Sin includes not only individual acts such as stealing or lying or committing murder, but also attitudes that are contrary to the attitudes God requires of us. [Ten Commandments]....God's moral law not only in action and attitudes, but also in our moral nature our very nature, the internal character that is the essence of who we as persons, can also be sinful.
---catherine on 6/14/10


Sin was not the things we did. Sin was a much deeper issue. Sin is something we were born in because of Adam's disobedience. When God says, "I made Him to be sin", that is what He means. He became all we were so that we can be all He is by grace. If you are born again, you are a saint by the grace of God. When Jesus faced the cup in the Garden, three times He prayed, "Let this cup pass from Me". That is once for spirit, once for soul, and once for body, completely emptying Himself of who He was. When He drank the cup, He drank it all so we could take the whole cup of the New Covenant. I know it isn't popular, but Jesus was made to be sin (noun: person, place, or thing....not verb: action).
---Linda on 6/13/10


Francis, law of Moses and 10 commandments are one, check these.

Matt19:17-20 A man asks Jesus "what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?" Jesus replied, "keep the commandments". The man asked "..which?" Jesus replied "do not murder...steal...adultery.
And did you notice that man said he kept all 10 but asked "WHAT LACK I YET?"
Jesus answered to sell all that he has, give to poor, FOLLOW HIM.


James2:9-11 "if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. Whosoever shall keep the whole law and yet offend in one point is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill.."
---Haz27 on 6/13/10


Kathr ... I understaand all you Say about Jesus taking our sin and being punished for it and being the scapegoat.

But gramatically, Jessu becoming sin ... which is the evil we do ... (did Jesus become an evil doing or evil action?) just does not work.

And you say "He became sin (He became the representative sin-bearer for the world)" Now those two things are totally different ... SIN is not the representative sin bearer.

Sin is the thing that sinners ... all of us ... do. A person cannot become an action.

That's grammatically ... in theo-speak, maybe he can.
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/11/10


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alan, I think another thing to study is OT sacrifices.

There was the scape goat. The sin of thepeople were placed on the scape goat.
---kathr4453 on 6/11/10


Alan,

What this means is that fallen humans have all committed sins, but Jesus became sin for us. The point here is that "committing" sin and "being" sin are not the same thing, so we shouldn't expect them to receive the same punishment. As the commentaries above point out, Jesus did not become a sinner, He became sin (He became the representative sin-bearer for the world). Jesus was made to be sin for us in a substitutional way, but He was never made to be sinful in a personal way.
---kathr4453 on 6/11/10


Kathr ... Yes, I know that's what the bible says, but it does not relate to anything I can understand!

Sin is a thing or things, the evil that we do.

Jesus was/is a person.

Was this person Jesus changed into a thing?

In think the words mean that Jesus was changed ... He became as if He was sinful ... that's how He could be punished.

i know what is meant, but the words do not make sense!
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/11/10


Alan, This is what GOD said, not me.




But God loved you so much He gave His only begotten Son, Jesus, to bear your sin and die in your place.

He hath made Him (Jesus, Who knew no sin) to be sin for us , that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him (2 Corinthians 5:21).
---kathr4453 on 6/11/10


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'actions by which humans rebel against God'

is rejection of worldly goods & practice various forms of SELF DENIAL make us more godly or a gesture we love god? or is acceptance of worldly good or an attitude of 'taking/receiving' actions of rebellion?

'miss His purpose for their life'

if we follow & practice 'self-denial' & reject worldly goods, won't we miss the blessings in our life?

and surrender to the power of evil than to God.'

so surrendering ourselves to god through 'self denial' is a an act of obedience or ignorance/blind obedience
---mike on 6/10/10


Youre sitting at your desk in front of the bible.
You start reading the bible. It put you on the road.
You start walking up the road. You start see an image.
Just when you start to see God you look to the side.
You say look at that man with the beer in his hand.
Now you find yourself back at your desk. Why?

I dont know if this can be any clearer.
This will happen every time you read your bible.
The law will lead you to God.
Sin will lead you back to the law.

Why dont you help me with this rock!
Yea, lets put it on top of that mountain!
---TheSeg on 6/10/10


It is very common to get the Law of Moses mixed with the Ten commandments. Let's see what the NT says:

Romans 13:9 Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet,
Ephesians 6:2 Honour thy father and mother,
Acts 16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side,
1 John 5:21 keep yourselves from idols.
Revelation 14:7 worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea,
James 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

YEP I see ALL TEN in the NT
proving that jesus did not come to change the law, not one jot or tittle.
---francis on 6/10/10


Kathr ... I find such theological statements as "He became sin, and we through His risen Life ( those who receive Him) become the righteousness of Christ. His Righteousness is imputed to us....not because we are Righteous, but because HE IS RIGHTEOUS" very difficult.

If He became sin, when did He stop being sin? He must have done because He is now righteous.

My beleif is that the righteous Christ Son of God willingly died on the cross to bear our sin for us, and so allow God to treat us as if we are righteous.

I can't see how "Christ became sin" Seems a bit like a theo-buzzphrase.
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/10/10


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If Christians are still "SINNERS" i.e are STILL under the law that Jesus ended, then that law required death.

But 1Tim1:9 "the law is NOT MADE FOR A RIGHTEOUS MAN, but...for the UNGODLY and for SINNERS...."

1Peter4:18 "And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the UNGODLY and the SINNER appear?"

Christians have Christ in them. Through Christ we are righteous (no longer under the law, nor ungodly and sinner).

Gal3:12 "...the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live by them."

Gal2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain".
---Haz27 on 6/10/10


catherine WE are SIN. SIN is separation from God. Sin is fallen flesh.

Christ came to become SIN for us, paying the price of death. He became sin, and we through His risen Life ( those who receive Him) become the righteousness of Christ. His Righteousness is imputed to us....not because we are Righteous, but because HE IS RIGHTEOUS. This is our position before God. He see's us In Christ's righteousness, a New Creature. God no longer sees us after the flesh/sin...but sees us as a New Creature In Christ.
---kathr4453 on 6/10/10


Mat 19:20-22 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
He kept the 6 commandments without Christ, but it wasn't enough.
John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love, even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
The difference between Son and Father commandments?
---micha9344 on 6/10/10


Jesus didn't come to do away with the law. He came to fulfill it. Meaning through Him we CAN obey the law. Mat 19:17-19, John 14:15
---fay on 6/10/10


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We need not worry about obedience to the 10 commandments.
Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear, but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
2Tim 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear, but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
Gal 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, [but] grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness [come] by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Phi 3:9a And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law,
---micha9344 on 6/10/10


---Haz27 on 6/9/10

yeah, i read your post to donna, your concept and idea of " under the law" is flawed

Under the law refers to the sanctuary laws where by when a person sins death ( of an inocent animal) must occur.

If I follow your idea of "under the law," it seems to indicate that christians need not worry about obedience to the ten commandments.

So my view is thus: While we are not under the law, meaning that death does not occur anyone ( since jesus has taken our death, which was then represented by a goat or sheep), we are still very much obligated to obey all ten commandments.
---francis on 6/10/10


Francis. See my earlier post to Donna. God chastises those He loves. But those who still "SIN" under the law, well, the wages of sin is death as you know.

Catherine. God's definitions in the Bible is what to go by. Dont bother with a dictionary
---Haz27 on 6/9/10


Sinning might even be as simple as thinking.
After all wasnt it, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Just the very thought of, is something good or evil.

For me, it goes back to Adam. Here a guy who messes up, Right!
But instead of thinking, hey Im sorry.
No, Ill go hide from God. Wow, this is our old-man. Right!

Ok, I cant hide from God, Right!
So Ill hide my body from him. Because, now I think Im naked!

Now he goes to God says Im naked!
What does God say Who told you, you were naked?
Adam thinking! (No one, I figured it out, all by myself!)

Are we naked before God?
Is it Yes Or No?
Mat 6:25!
---TheSeg on 6/9/10


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Hebrews10:26 says "If we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins."
For those who think Christians are still "sinners", what do you say of this scripture?
---Haz27 on 6/10/10


Good answer Catherine.
---fay on 6/10/10


Catherine. Do you doubt God's word in Rom10:4 "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for eveyone that believes"?

And as Christians we love the Lord our God with all our heart and our neighbour as oursleves. So this should cover that list of commandments as God's word said it would.

But remember the law you are talking about is the law of sin and death which Jesus brought to an end. I.E anyone under this law who transgresses it has sinned and deserves death. Remember 1Tim1:9 "The law is NOT made for a righteous man (Christians) but for ......UNGODLY and SINNERS......."

What do you think Jesus died on the cross for??
---Haz27 on 6/10/10


Catherine, A-men.
---Eloy on 6/9/10


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SIN>>>actions by which humans rebel against God, miss His purpose for their life, and surrender to the power of evil rather than to God.
---catherine on 6/9/10


Romans10:4 Christ is the end of the law.
---Haz27 on 6/9/10
You mean christians do not have to abide by any of these:

Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image..
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain,
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honour thy father and thy mother:
Thou shalt not kill.
Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Thou shalt not steal.
Thou shalt not bear false witness.
Thou shalt not covet

Seems to me if christ ended this law, then there is no ground for divorce ever.
And why should a christian go to court over murder or theft?
And why not work all seven days without rest?
---francis on 6/9/10


Sin is juding whether or not someone is Christ-like!!!!
---KarenD on 6/9/10


Donna5535. While your list of "SIN" examples are things that Christians have even done we need to remember that under the law committing these "SINS" resulted in death. But now that Christians are no longer under the law (no longer "sinners") we are now under grace with the God who loves us. So when a Christian does something wrong now we are chastised (Heb12:6) because God loves us.
---Haz27 on 6/9/10


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\\so does that mean we have to practice

ASCETICISM\\

Good point, Mike.

As I've said repeatedly, fasting and abstinence from food (or some kinds of food) are to the spiritual life what calisthenics are to sports, or scales are to music.

None of these are ends in themselves.

Asceticism is training of the will.

Learning to say, "no," to little things like food can make it easier to shout, "NO!" to big things like sin.
---Cluny on 6/9/10


Sin = lawlessness (1 John 3:4 ) (breaking God's law - 10 Commandments), wrongdoing (1 John 5:17), and lack of faith (Romans 14:23).
---Leslie on 6/9/10


Most seem to define sin only in terms of 1John3:4 i.e transgressing the law.
What does God say about the law?

Romans10:4 Christ is the end of the law.

Romans8:2 the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death

Romans7:4 you are also become dead to the law by the body of Christ

Colossians2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us.....nailing it to his cross

Romans3:28 a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law

Galatians3:12 the law is not of faith

So are Christians still under this law and therefore can be accused of transgressing it i.e SIN?
---Haz27 on 6/9/10


Well, what some Christians perceive as godliness, in actually it is cowardliness. Ahhh, to be Christ-like. Noone truly is.
---catherine on 6/9/10


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so does that mean we have to practice

ASCETICISM - practice of denial of physical or psychological desires in order to attain a spiritual goal or ideal. ritual purity in order to come in contact with the divine. the rejection of worldly goods & practice various forms of SELF DENIAL incl celibacy abstinence & fasting. to discipline & train the body is to disc the soul & thus to purify the soul from its passions in order to love god more perfectly.

this is why many miss blessings not bec of lack of faith but of this wrong teaching.
---mike on 6/9/10


Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? [Is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

James 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
---francis on 6/9/10


"To one that knows to do good, and does not, to that one it is sin." James 4:17.
---Eloy on 6/9/10


sin can be justified through 'good causes' using euphemisms.
---mike on 6/9/10


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Sin is ALL unrighteousness.

Sin is disobeying God's word.

Sin is adultery, fornication, lust, stealing, lying, killing, murder, unforgiveness, bitterness, resentment towards someone, pride, spiritual pride, jealousy, strife, coveting thy neighbor's goods, sin is not doing what God's word tells us to do which boils down to disobedience. The unpardonable sin is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
---Donna5535 on 6/9/10


If only you read the Bible, catherine, you'd know the answer to this question:

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

But then, if you read the Bible, you'd realize you're not hearing from the real God, either.
---Cluny on 6/9/10


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