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Was John The Baptist Sinless

Was John the Baptist sinless?

Moderator - No.

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 ---alan8566_of_uk on 6/11/10
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Eloy, I read that in the Bible also, but that has nothing to do with my mom. What news do you have for me? You just do not want to help me, or you just don't know.
---Sam on 6/28/10


Sam, "Do people gather grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles? Even so every good tree brings forward good fruit, but a corrupt tree brings forward bad fruit. Wherefore by their fruits you all will know them. The person that abides in me, and I in that person, the same brings forward much fruit. If a person abide not in me, that one is thrown forward as a branch, and is withered, and men gather them and throw forward into the fire, and they are burned." And for you preferring Christ above all, "If any come to me, and hate not their father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brothers, and sisters, yea, and their own life also, that one cannot be my disciple."
---Eloy on 6/28/10


Eloy, you have the mind of Christ, and you do not want to tell me if she was saved or not. You should know. It is the same mind. I loved her and would want to know.
---Sam on 6/26/10


sam, the life and path we choose to follow each day leads to a final destination: all who become Christianed are saved, all who reject Christ are not saved.
---Eloy on 6/26/10


Eloy, so what you are saying is that you know who in the future is going to be save? If you have the mind of Christ, you must know the future. Can you tell me if my mom is save? It would sure be wonderful if she is.
---Sam on 6/26/10




sam, I have no care at all if you disagree with every word I preach, that is your own free choice to dis. I have the mind of Christ, and know full well whom is of my body and who is none of my family: so stranger, your dissing is your own separation and becomes your own loss.
---Eloy on 6/26/10


Jesus was the only man, God incarnate to walk this earth . Therfore Jesus was the only sinless man ever. 1Tim 3:16
---somme8743 on 6/26/10


Eloy, just because I disagree with your interpretations does not mean I am a disser as you call it or a mocker. It just means I disagree. What you are saying is that no one can disagree with you. If you say something contrary to the word, we have to agree with you? Isn't that kind of saying that your false statements turn to true statments because you spoke them?
---Sam on 6/26/10


sam, the way of sinners is to mock the righteous, they have done this ever since the beginning. But it is very true that when I speak God's words and dissers like you mock me, this is a very clear litmus test that that mocker is not Christian, for true Christians do not dis the saints from God. Enough that the disciple the person be as one's Master, and the servant as one's Lord. The person that is of God, hears God's words: you all therefore hear not, because you all are not of God. Now if I were a nonChristian and spoke against the words of God and instead spoke lies and vanity, then you would probably receive my words and applaud me gladly, for so they have done with all the false prophets which have gone on before me.
---Eloy on 6/26/10


Eloy what I was refering to was not your answer about John but your position. You want everyone to believe what you say no matter what, because you are a prophet who never makes mistakes, and if through a discussion someone disagrees with you, they are dissing Christ and they are misinterpreting your speech because they are of the language of the world, and you are not. So in reality, you can never be wrong no matter if you are.
---Sam on 6/24/10




The Seg, the world does not reverence Jesus, instead they blaspheme him: they beat him up, whipped him, spit on him, crowned him with thorns, and killed him on the cross. And instead of honoring the Innocent and Holy One whom was a known well-doer, they chose for themselves Barabbas whom was a known guilty murderer.
---Eloy on 6/22/10


What to say?

Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones, for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other, and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.

And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

But this!
But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
---TheSeg on 6/22/10


Sam, Yes I am saying it. John was not afraid, and neither was Christ afraid. As John appealed to Christ on behalf of all people whom ask: Jesus, are you the One? So Christ replied for all people to know: Yes, I am the One. Inspite of all the manifested reality of Christ being the One and Only Savior, dissers today still dis him: to bad, so sad.
---Eloy on 6/22/10


The Seg, he is saying it.
---Sam on 6/22/10


Seg, When one has knowledge that they will soon die, and they appeal to the Lord because of this definite knowledge, this is not fear. Jesus had the power to save John from prison, but there was no purpose for this because he had completed his mission to prepare the way for Jesus, and now Jesus is come, and the "J" will be decapitated and now will be an "I". Likewise when Jesus was praying for consolation and sweated drops of blood in the garden of Gethsemane it was not from any fear he had, for he prophesied long ago of sinners arresting and beating and crucifying him, but instead he was experiencing the definite crucifixion before he was physically crucified.
---Eloy on 6/22/10


The Seg, What I have posted I have posted. I already elucidated John's words. The natural man who does not have the Holy Spirit speaks from the natural mind and with man's tongue, but we prophets from God speak from the spiritual mind and with God's words, these are two separate languages from two separate worlds. When I speak intimately with Christ it is not the same speech that I speak to the world, and so when the worldly hear my speech that I speak to Christ they often misinterpret my speech according to their worldly mind. And so it is when John sent word to Christ, if you comprehend his words with worldly wisdom or scholastic knowledge then you will misconceive what was being said and the whys and the wherefores of the speech.
---Eloy on 6/21/10


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Forgive me!

Therefore his words that he gave to the disciples to say to Jesus were words appealing to Jesus' mercy to Save him from certain death.
On 6/19/10

I did not say that John was afraid, he was not afraid of dying just as we Christians have no fear of leaving earth.
On 6/20/10

You said it! But to me it looks like two completely different things.
If you can justly explain these two statements, take your time!
You didnt just make a mistake? Did you!

Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive,

You see!
---TheSeg on 6/21/10


Please tell me youre not saying what I think your saying, here!
(Understand that (we) prophets speak a different language than the nonspiritual do.)
If you are saying it, I dont know what to tell you?
Are you saying it??
---TheSeg on 6/20/10


Seg, I did not say that John was afraid, he was not afraid of dying just as we Christians have no fear of leaving earth. Understand that we prophets speak a different language than the nonspiritual do. John knew full well Jesus' identitiy because he openly anounced him to the world and personally baptized him. Notice Jesus' answer to John, which again is not only for John but for all people to know, as is John's words were not only spoken on behalf of himself but he spoke for all people, saying, Are you The One? and Jesus answers, Yes I Am The One. It is not to show any doubting on John's part but to again glorify Jesus to the world.
---Eloy on 6/20/10


I believe everyone thought the time was now. This makes sense, because the books are being fulfilled.
Look at what MarkV said!
Look, I believe Mary is the Blessed Mother. Wow, the things I could say!
But, even she doubted!
All the apostles doubted!
God forgive me, but everyone on this earth will doubt! Everyone!

If what you say is true! That John after being filled with the Holy Ghost and hearing from God, was afraid to die.
Then I call John a coward!
A chicken!
A yellow belly sap sucker! (Think I got it from a movie)

So, if John didnt doubt Jesus.
Well then, he doubted God!

Afraid to die, you have men on earth right now.
Those are not afraid to die!
---TheSeg on 6/20/10


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Eloy
I read what you wrote, I like it. It sounds good to me. You may even want me to tell it to other people.

But let me see if I understand it.
Well I guess the first thing is to clear-up is everybody else John knew, including Jesus!
How important are they to what he got from God himself.
I would think what he got from God is more important than anything he get from you.

John heard from God! The one you see the spirit remain on!
Or did God say Jesus will be the one?
How please, tell me only what it says!

Did he think or believe it would be Jesus. I think so!
And Im sure he wasnt alone!
---TheSeg on 6/19/10


The Seg, If you read the scriptures without the Spirit, you will misperceive the truth. John whom was born from Elizabeth and related to Jesus, and who was the greatest prophet, knew exactly who Jesus is. He as prophet also knew that he was in the enemies prison and will be killed. Therefore his words that he gave to the disciples to say to Jesus were words appealing to Jesus' mercy to Save him from certain death. But Jesus' reply given back to him was confirmation that John would not be saved from his predicament because John's time was fulfilled on earth, and now it is the time of Jesus and no more of John to carry out his mission.
---Eloy on 6/19/10


The Seg, have you notice that the line is growing against me at a fast pace? We have Miche at the front of the line, with Trav at the end and many in the middle. We are told that we would be persecuted for the Truth, and that the more we suffer for Him, greater are our rewards? I sure hope I get a lot of them, the list is growing each day. Praise God I do not have to depend on them for my salvation, and praise God for chosing a worthless sinner as me. Peace to you from our Lord Jesus Christ.
---Mark_V. on 6/19/10


Mark_V.
To me, there are very few people, that dont add some misguided meaning in to it. Its always good to hear your words or this it read them.

Mat 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

As always may God bless you!
All of you!
---TheSeg on 6/18/10


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As I see it, John started with great faith, being filled with the Holy Spirit from birth and chosen by God to prepare the way for the Messiah, announce His coming. Scripture likens him to Isaiah.
He, personally, baptized Jesus and saw the Dove of the Holy Spirit descend upon Him.

If he temporarily doubted later, it doesn't diminsh him. How many times, Christians, even great Christians...including the prophets, were on the mountain top, the pinnacle of faith, only to crash into a valley of discouragement afterward.

He is not mentioned as being present for the most outstanding miracles of Jesus, and perhaps he still (like Judas) hoped for a political leader. He just needed assurance to see that Jesus was all he thought Him to be.
---Donna66 on 6/17/10


The Seg, your right, many of us waver all the time with our faith. I did check the story of John very well, and no where did I see him doubt or waver in the faith. In fact Christ speaks very highly of the work of John in v. 11:7-15 Jesus did say John was more then a prophet, and remember prophets were commissioned by God. He even says "Behold I send My messenger before Your face who will prepare Your way before You" He was preparing the way for Christ, sent by Him. How could he doubt?
In verse 3:12 though, John spoke about how Christ was going to come with judgment, for fire is used throughout this context as a means of judgment. And he was hearing Christ was out there healing instead, so he sent his disciples to find out.
---Mark_V. on 6/17/10


The Seg 2: I wanted to explain why I came to that conclusion. It is only my interpretation from the reading of the whole context. I could be wrong. but Jesus words are very convincing that John was very special. Concerning whether John sinned or not, there is no question that John and every descendants of Adam are all sinners. With the exception of Christ Jesus. That should be understood by every genuine believer. Even Mary was a sinner for she called Jesus her Savior. And only sinners need a Savior. I cut in on your explanations with Donna66, sort of threw my two cents in there. I was reading what both of you were saying and decided to answer to the chapter and verse. I didn't mean to either one was wrong but to look at another possibility.
---Mark_V. on 6/17/10


MarkV, I agree on the point you made about John being confused about Jesus mission, which is why Judas betrayed Jesus, believing Jesus came THEN to conquer Rome and set up His Kingdom. He Didn't...as that will come later, and will still be.

Thanks for that input...it all makes sense.

In the OT there are TWO comings of Christ..one as the suffering servant and one as KING who will overthrow Gentile world arrogance(Then ROME).
John announced the KINGDOM reign..and that is why he was confused....

PERFECT!!!
---kathr4453 on 6/17/10


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Why John asked what he did:

Jesus 3 answers explain Johns question especially the third one.
3. "And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me."
This is really the temptation that John must have faced, while in prison, confusing the purpose of Jesus mission! It wasn't about freedom from difficulties, as so often we think as well. John needed to be reminded as do WE. John remained in prison because it pleased God to do so!
Just look at so many today promised wealth, health, etc, and when it doesnt happendo they start to doubt?
This simple message of Christ crucified isn't enough for millions who say theyre saved. These passages are for OUR ADMONITION!!! John was human just as we are.
---kathr4453 on 6/17/10


markv -- My impression is that John doubted his understanding that Jesus was the Messiah. John questioning Christ's agenda, especially under the circumstances, seems logical. BUT I keep coming back to the question John asked.

"Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?"

Why the question about who Jesus is?
Why the question about looking for someone
else...if it's only an a question of "agenda".

In return, Jesus sent witnesses to all HE HAD done, which were the very things prophesied the Messiah would do.
---Donna66 on 6/17/10


Mark_V.
Do you think everyone doubts at one point or another?
I think so.

Maybe except for that old man that said:
Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:
For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, which thou hast prepared before the face of all people,

A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel!
---TheSeg on 6/17/10


Donna66, concerning Matthew 11:3, my understanding is that John did not waver on his faith. John the Baptist had introduced Christ as One who would bring fierce judgment and "burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire" in 3:12. He was understandably confuse because when he was in prison, Christ was carrying on a ministry of healing, not judgment. John wondered if he had misunderstood Jesus agenda. Jesus send John's disciples back as eyewitnesses of many miracles. He performed these miracles in their presence just so that they could report back to John that they had personal proof that He was indeed the Messiah. However, Jesus never offered no further explanation to John, knowing exactly how strong John's faith was. (1 Cor. 10:13).
---Mark_V. on 6/17/10


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Maybe its the message, Im thinking about. Lol
But I like massages too. lol
It seems to me its the Son of God, First Begotten of the Father things people flip out over.
Other than that everyone seems to say he was a great guy.
Yea he is a great guy, also a Great Son, Great Father and a Great Spirit.
---TheSeg on 6/17/10


Donna66
No one doubts he was Jesus the Messiah.
Even today! They just cant understand the massage.
You can even say no one will believe it.
Even, if a man tells you.

Yea, this is what I get too, He doubted!
Donna, just think about it, John doubted.
John! Maybe everyone should think about this.

It might be helpful one day.
God bless
---TheSeg on 6/16/10


John suffered the all too human temptation to doubt. Otherwise why would he ask (Mat 11:3)... "Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?"

From his wording, I think his concern went beyond the jail cell and beyond just himself. Things had gone bad. Could he have been mistaken in believing that Jesus was the Messiah? Should he and his disiclpes continue looking for someone else?
(Mat 11:4-5) Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:
The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.

...All signs of His deity!
---Donna66 on 6/16/10


Will you free me from this prison?
Im not a teacher, so please teach me.

Another are we expecting
And it goes on even now!
---TheSeg on 6/16/10


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Seg, John could not look for another because he was in prison, and he also knew exactly who Jesus was because he was related to Jesus, and he anounced him and baptized him. What John was asking Jesus was, if you are the Savior, will you free me from this prison. And Jesus' response to him was, Yes as you already know, I am the Savior, but I will not free you from prison: because you must decrease, and I must increase.
---Eloy on 6/16/10


Well, the Moderator said it well in one word. Only Jesus Christ was the only man-God who walked among us that was without sin+++sinless.
---catherine on 6/15/10


I am in no way going to say john sinned!
Because if I say anything its that I know! I am sinner!

Christ say O ye of little faith what did you doubt.
I dont know if I would call all doubting a sin.
But, I can ask, would doubting God be?

Well john at one point, sent two to Christ.
To ask him, are you him or do I look for another.
Was john going to look for someone else?
After God told him, on whom you see the spirit rest!
And after seeing it!

Look at Zacharias not able to speak, because he didnt believe Gabriel.
---TheSeg on 6/15/10


Strongax, I previously corrected this blasphemy from sinners, The verse is only comparing "the sinner Jew" to being equal to "the sinner nonJew": this verse in no way establishes the blasphemy of the righteous being sinners. In context addressing the right persons, lit.Gk: "What advantage then has the Jew? seeing there is not a difference, as each sinned, indeed whoever lacking glory of God. To declare at this time his righteousness: in his being he's just, and justifying whom of obedient in Jesus. Or he God of Jews only? and not also of nations? Yes, of nations also: seeing one God which will justify the circumcision by obedience, and uncircumcision through obedience." Romans 3:1,22,23,26.30.
---Eloy on 6/15/10


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To---StrongAxe I agree with your post on 6/15/10.
---mima on 6/15/10


Eloy:

While there may be no explicit mention of John the Baptist sinning, there is Romans 3:23:
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God"
which includes us all. If this includes everyone EXCEPT John the Baptist, it is using a new meaning of "all" that is different from every other use of the word.
---StrongAxe on 6/15/10


Cluny, I know you and Mima go back and forth sometimes and its understandable, but Salvation in Scripture is used in three terms, Past, Present and future. He was speaking of present.
The verb to save appears in virtually every possible tense of the Greek language. There is a sense in which we were saved (from the foundation of the world), we were being saved (by the work of God in history), we are saved (by being in a justified state), we are being saved (by being sanctified or made holy), and we will be saved (experience the consumation of our redemption in heaven).
Sometimes we equate present salvation in terms of our justification, which is present. Salvation is of the Lord. It is not a human enterprise. It is a Divine work of God.
---Mark_V. on 6/15/10


There is no record detailing that John the Baptist sinned in the Bible, but there is the record that he did right and he baptized the Lord Jesus.
---Eloy on 6/15/10


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\\ As for myself I believe baptism to be something to do after salvation.\\

Does this mean you think you get baptized in heaven after you hear Christ's voice, "Come, O blessed of My Father, inherit the Kingdom"?

Because THAT is when we get saved.
---Cluny on 6/14/10


Although the lord had no sins of his own, he was to take upon himself the sins of the world.
Simply, anyone who is to enter heaven from the world must be baptized into the spirit of God.


God forgive me.
This is so very important!

1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? Even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Even though I believe him to be God, there are things in the bible. That tell me he did not have the fullness, even after he was baptized.
Like, so then the children are free. Almost like a realization.
Made me come to some realizations!
---TheSeg on 6/13/10


---TheSeg your reasoning about baptism is correct if you believe baptism to be an absolutely essential part of salvation. As for myself I believe baptism to be something to do after salvation.

Question---TheSeg what is your idea of why the Lord Jesus Christ was baptized? There can be no doubt he actually sought out to be baptized. Why? I would be interested in your answer.
---mima on 6/13/10


Then this is a lie
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Come on stop it! What are you looking at?

Maybe you need to rethink how Jesus lived and why he died.
How listen if you want to think, there is one righteous person out there.
Far be it from me to try to stop you, as I am not a teacher.

But I would think if there was one, his name would be right there next to God!
But, all I can tell you for sure is I am a sinner. And as far as I know there is only one who was sinless. His name is Jesus and he is the first begotten son of God.
---TheSeg on 6/13/10


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The answer should be a no brainer for all genuine Christians. All sin and come short of the glory of God. Jesus Christ is God, and all come short of His glory. For He was sinless. He was, is and always will be immpeccable, not able to sin. The only human who was after the fall. Just because the Holy Spirit was in John the Baptist, it did not make him sinless or anyone else. All are in need of Christ, unbelievers for their salvation, believer for their continue walk with Him. For without Christ you are nothing. There is no one righteous without the righteousness of Christ. Old Testament saints who were righteous, were righteous because they looked forward to the coming Messiah.
---MarkV. on 6/13/10


Jesus said that he did not come to call the righteous but sinners.In his statement he discloses that there are righteous people living along side sinners.
Paul's statement that all have sinned is based on his atonement doctrine and the issue of all humans are born in sin.
If all humans have sinned then you must put Jesus and John on the list.This will then blemish Paul's atonement doctrine sacrifice where Paul states the sacrifice must meet certain specifications to qualify.
It seems Paul has tripped on his own personal doctrine.
---earl on 6/12/10


Mima, if he was saved, this would not be in the bible.

Mat 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

Mima and Alan that would make Rom 3:23 a lie!
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God,

Everyone must be baptized of that one baptism!

Luk 12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

By you believing in him more than you do! Much more!
Instead of trying to protect him, let him protect you.

Luk 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay, but rather division:
He has!
---TheSeg on 6/12/10


I wasn't aware that being "filled with the Holy Spirit" guaranteed sinlessnes for anyone. As long as we live in an earthly body we are fallible and prone to sin at times.
Even John the Baptist, "filled with the Holy Spirit" had doubts. Though he understood better than others who Jesus was...when he was in the palace prison awaiting death, he sent word out asking if Jesus was the one the Jews had sought, or could it be someone else.
---Donna on 6/12/10


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If John the Baptist, who was filled with the Holy Spirit from his mother's womb, was not sinless, what hope do the people who post to these blogs have?
---Cluny on 6/11/10


mima:

You said: Anyone filled with the Holy Ghost does not have to be saved because he is saved.

Where do you get this? Can you cite chapter and verse?

There are counterexamples. For example, in 1 Samuel 10:10-11, Saul comes across a group of prophets, then the Holy Spirit falls on him, and he prophesies with them, leading to the proverb "Is Saul also among the prophets"? Yet we know well that Saul was NOT sinless.

Also, Romans 3:23 says
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God"
"All". Not "All except John".
---StrongAxe on 6/11/10


1. Adam & Eve were sinless "before" they disobeyed God's word.

2. The Lord Jesus Christ is "the only sinless man since" the fall of Adam & Eve.
---Leon on 6/11/10

And it looks like John the Baptist can join that list with Adam and Eve,

"and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb."
---Ruben on 6/11/10


A very, very, very, good question. One man, One God, in flesh, sinless, Jesus aHHHHH.
---catherine on 6/11/10


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"he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb"
Anyone filled with the Holy Ghost does not have to be saved because he is saved.
---mima on 6/11/10

Total speculation.

John certainly was an anointed PROPHET however John needed to be saved like all the rest of us including a prophet.

John was not filled with the spirit of the LIFE of Christ, because Christ had not yet gone to the Cross, giving the Holy Spirit to indwell believers beginning at Pentecost.

---kathr4453 on 6/11/10


Elder wrote,"No. He was born a sinner. He needed to be Saved also."
I agree that he was born a sinner but I do not agree that he needed to be saved. I base that belief on the following verse.

Luke 1:15,"For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink, and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb"

"he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb"
Anyone filled with the Holy Ghost does not have to be saved because he is saved.
---mima on 6/11/10


I asked this question, because on naother blog, one of the bloggers indicated that John the B was sinless.

I beleive myself that Jesus is the only human ever to be sinless
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/11/10


1. Adam & Eve were sinless "before" they disobeyed God's word.

2. The Lord Jesus Christ is "the only sinless man since" the fall of Adam & Eve.
---Leon on 6/11/10


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Why are you worrying about this?
---Cluny on 6/11/10


Not according to what is written in Romans 3:23.
---Rob on 6/11/10


No. He was born a sinner. He needed to be Saved also. He had an earthly father so he the sin nature.
In examinging his life we find that God had a purpose for him before he was born. That should tell us that abortion is wrong.
---Elder on 6/11/10


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