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Can Saved Christians Sin

Are "saved" Christians free to sin?

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 ---jerry6593 on 6/18/10
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The answer is no, right!
How can someone who is saved willfully sin?
But, dont we all still sin, anyway!
Can anyone say I have stopped sinning?

So, are you free to sin? Now I say, yes! Because we do!
Yes, I know we dont want too, but we do, anyway!

I love it when you say.
But, you have to try, not to sin.
Here I say, no! You, have to try not to sin!
Before God, I know what I am!

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures, for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Some will say Im wrong. Some will say nothing.
How many can bless their brother in seeing themselves?
Very few!
---TheSeg on 6/22/10


Miche3754--
I always think of the scripture that tells us to constantly examine ourselves. To always examine our relationship with God and heed what he says always

of course, it goes without saying. We do this as we try to please the Lord. But I don't fear losing my salvation if I'm not perfect.
---Donna66 on 6/22/10


Donna66,

I agree with some of your post.
The only part I slightly disagree with is the very first part.

I always think of the scripture that tells us to constantly examine ourselves. To always examine our relationship with God and heed what he says always. When we do this, we are more likely to to listen to God's voice and do what he tells us and he is always there to support us. Plus, it is not a burden, like you said with the stress factor.

But, overall sis, good post.
---miche3754 on 6/22/10


I'm not sure what the "habitual sin" doctrine is. Certainly, if you fear loss of your salvation with every misstep you may make, you'll be frustrated, even dispairing.

But Jesus came to free us from this. Because of His imputed righteousness, we are sinless in the sight of God. His shed blood has assured us of this, if we place our faith in Him.
We obey because we love the Savior and want to please Him. (Anyone who does not obey for this reason,or who continues in a sinful lifestyle, likely is not even a Christian).
---Donna66 on 6/22/10


David, 1 John 3:7 "...He that doeth righteousness is righteous even as he is righteous"
John here reterates in verse seven that only those who continue in righeousness (hoepoion) a participle phrase meaning "the one habitually doing") were considered righteous. They were not only making the righeousness and holy life of Christ the object of their trust, but also the pattern of their walk and practice. John's idea of committing sin on a permanent basis is further explained in 1 John 1:11 "...he that doeth good is of God: But he that doeth evil hath not seen God"
Two participle nouns here, "ho agathopoion" those doers of good, and "ho kakopoion" for those doers of evil.
---Mark_V. on 6/22/10




Haz, you are right that people who sin habitually, who practice sin everyday, they are not saved to began with. If He is a new creation, he is been sanctified by God's Word, the Spirit, through convictions, chastizement and corrections.
All those who practice sin and you see them going back to the world were really never saved. 1 John 2:19. I can assure you Christains do sin. If you don't want to call them sinners that is ok with me. Call them whatever you want. I call them forgiven sinners. 1 John 2:1 declares the Christians do sin when he says, "My little children, these things I write to you, os that you many not sin. "And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous"
---Mark_V. on 6/22/10


Haz, 2:
The word "ho kakopoion refering to "the one doing evil, a milicious person" The "ho agathopoion" meaning "the one being a doer of good, a benevolent person" is clear up when we read the correct Greek used in 1 John 3:7,8. So the translation of 1 John 3:8 should be, "The one who practices sin, the expression" is of the devil, for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil"
Which means the true believer cannot sin habitually, deliberately, easily and maliciously. Because John states in 1 John 1:8, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us"
---Mark_V. on 6/22/10


Mark_V, I have seen the "habitual sin" doctrine turn people, claiming to be Christian, away from Christ as saviour. When they realise that they have slipped up once too often they then feel that they have lost their salvation. Jesus was the perfect sacrifice. The only way to undo this is to bring yourself back under the law of sin and death.

1John3:6-9 means what it says. Christians do not sin and verse 4 tells us that sin is trangression of the law and Jesus fulfilled that law for us on the cross.

Concerning conduct for believers, you know yourself Jesus commandments 1John3:23 "believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another".
---Haz27 on 6/22/10


atheist
Your problem is that you have looked to man to determine what God has said and means. The best way for anyone to understand is through a good copy of God's Written Word.
If you believe that everyone who posts here is a dedicated, Bible believing, God fearing, Christian then you owe me your first payment on the Brooklyn Bridge.
I see you as an intelligent person seeking answers.
You throw the curves to those who have really not found what God has said. Those who give you the correct answers you reject because of the other confusion.
I don't believe you would post here if you really didn't want to know. You can write me at elder2291 if you want. I will not post anything you say. All mail will be kept confidential.
---Elder on 6/22/10


I have seached through every Bible Translation I know of and I can not find the teachings about habitual sin.
Could someone please tell me where this teaching is in the Bible.
---David on 6/22/10




Kathr,
I never said anything keeps anyone from sinning. Sin is a dead issue. When we meet our maker we wont be judged for sin. We are dead to sin, its over. There is but one sin, unbelief in HIM. Do we believe in the work of the Cross? Most here dont. They claim salvation but claim sin still has power over them, they are still asking to be forgiven of sin/repenting day in and day out for the rest of there lives, never overcoming there sins, even claiming they are saved sinners.
Being set free from sin IS the Gospel.
Can a person sin? Of course. Just dont put your faith IN HIM and HIS work.
Alot of people like to quote scripture, but it wont save them. We must proclaim The Cross of Christ. Its imperative.
---duane on 6/22/10


Mark,
Im glad you claim your new creation as your only identity. Your not a sinner.
We will meet in the afterlife.
---duane on 6/22/10


obewan,
Rom7:24 "who shall DELIVER me from this body of death?" answer: 2Cor1:10 God, "who DELIVERED us from so great a death". Christians were DELIVERED
Rom7:25 Paul shows how spirit/flesh battle ended. He says "I myself serve the law of God". As for serving "flesh the law of sin", how did he do that? See my earlier posts. Jesus fulfilled the law. He died on the cross. We have been crucified with Christ, it is no longer I that lives but Christ lives in me.

1John3:4 "sin is transgression of the law" Are you STILL under this law that Jesus died on the cross for and fulfilled?
1John3:6 "Whosoever abides in him sins not: whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.
---Haz27 on 6/22/10


Jerry,

I agree. You cannot have a rational conversation, because there cannot be an agreement on terms. This is demonstrated aptly on many subjects on these blogs. You all can't agree on what hell is, what will make you end up there, the terms of salvation, whether or not god takes an active part in the lives of his adherents, whether the end times have started, if Obama is the anti-christ, what the anti-christ is, and so on.

Whenever I point out the lack of reason and the irrationality of these beliefs, particularly because the are inconsistent among adherents, I am ridiculed because of my lack of belief.

An omnipotent god should surely be able to communicate more clearly and consistently and his adherents not be confused.
---atheist on 6/22/10


To answer the blog question....

NO, Christians are not free to sin.

Should we sin because we have God's grace? NO.

We might slip and fall but no Christian should be sinning just because they want to.

I believe as we learn and grow in God's grace, we learn daily what is sin in God's eyes. That is why we repent if we find that we have sinned.
There are things that we discover on this walk that we thought weren't sin but turn out to be sin.
That is why we are to deny our flesh..die daily to it and learn what is plesaing in the eyes of God.
When we first start out we don't know all these things and it takes God teaching us.
We should be grwoing in God's grace daily.
---miche3754 on 6/22/10


Duane, answers to your questions,
1. When we say we are still a sinner, we deny Him.
Answer, Wrong, When we say we are without sin, we deny Him. The Truth is not in us.
2. We Christains have only one identity, that being sinless, righteous and acceptable to God through Christ.
Answer: Wrong, We have one identity, We are born of the Spirit. Made righteous through the imputed righeousness of Christ.
3. You seem to have two identities
Answer: Wrong, I'm a new creation in Christ, for the Spirit is sanctifying me to be more like Christ.
4. I believe we need to choose life or death.
Answer: Wrong, We don't choose life, God the Spirit brings us to the light. We cannot do it on our own. All unbelievers are in darkness.
---Mark_V. on 6/22/10


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Have you been made righteous?---
YOU do NOT commit sin anymore as long as you live by faith in HIM.
---duane on 6/21/10

duane, I have to comment on this. God has IMPUTED the righteousness of Christ to me..that is my POSITION before God, called JUSTIFICATION, that never changes. However it's not my sanctification that changes every day. Imputed Righteousness does not automatically stop you from sinning.

I would disagree with your second comment here. You seem to have left out our identification in His death and resurrection life leading then to our sanctification....The Mystery of Godliness is great. Even greater than the mystery of IMPUTED Righteousness.
---kathr4453 on 6/22/10


duane, this scripture blows your theory right out of the water...

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

a) Christians have sin and still sin, thus the need for 1 John 1:9 - IF we confess what? our SINS.

Christians are sinners, they're just repentent sinners, they know they need to repent when they sin unlike unbelievers who don't think they need to and don't.
---Donna5535 on 6/22/10


Mima, Mark, or anyone
The whole heart of the Gospel is freedom from sin.
---duane on 6/21/10

You are only half right. We are freed from the bondge of sin (Col 1:13) and from the penalty of sin (Rom 8:1). We are not freed from the temptation of sin.

This is because we have not been perfected yet. While we are in this fleshly body we be temnpted and we WILL sin. Paul tells us in Phil 3:12 that we have not obtained perfection yet and James tell us in James 3:2 that we ALL stumble. Whether its commission or omission we will stumble.

Our goal is the be sanctified, the process of being conformed to the image of Christ. As we become more and more like Jesus, we will sin less and less.
---Mark_Eaton on 6/22/10


Mark,We have no sin in us because Christ made it so. I will not deny HIM. HIS work is finished. When we say we are STILL a sinner, we deny HIM. The sin of the world is unbelief in HIM. We Christians have only one identity, that being sinless, righteous and acceptable to God through Christ. You seem to have two identities. That being saint AND sinner. I believe we need to choose life or death.Jesus came to give life, now believe it. HE took sin away for a purpose. We need to be dead to sin so we can be alive to God.
Salvation is Christ in you, not sin in you.
---duane on 6/22/10


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Obewan,
For the flesh to be perfect is impossible and you know it. Under the law no one is righteous. Now tell me, what did Jesus do for mankind? Did HE set us free from sin?
If not, there is no hope for anyone because we are born sinners with no hope of salvation.
---duane on 6/22/10


Haz, if your interpretation of 1 john 3:8 is correct, then we might as well throw out all the passages concerning the conduct for believers. Every passage that teach what we should and shouldn't do. For if we are completely sinless at salvation, all that talk by all the writers of Scripture inspired by the Holy Spirit are useless. Believe in the Lord and that is it. Period.
Sorry Haz but the passage is speaking about Habitual sin. It has to be that way or else none of the passages are any good for anyone. "Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal bodies" Rom. 6:12. The passage indicates believers can still let sin reign in their motal bodies. Check 6:1. The whole New Testament is about Conduct in Church and in life.
---Mark_V. on 6/22/10


To those who say that saved Christians and Paul could not sin, explain the end of Romans 7. Paul clearly says that there is a double mind at work:

(7:25) "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin."

Remember, God's standard is PERFECTION. We may indeed have victory over sins that bond us like alcohol or drugs or sex, but the little ones will still remain until we see heaven.

Remember, Paul says the good that he wants to do he does not. How many times have we passed by the poor, sick, or homeless people? Sin? Are we doing ALL we can ALL the time?
---obewan on 6/22/10


obewan, if, as you claim, Paul said he sins then 1John3:8 says he is of the devil. I hope that's not what you imply?
Perhaps Paul is talking in Romans about his "old man" that was crucified with Christ. And "if Christ be in you, the BODY IS DEAD because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness".

So now we "know no man after the flesh" 2Cor5:16,17 "if any man be in Christ he is a NEW CREATURE".

Bible shows the difference between the Flesh and Spirit. The 1st and 2nd Adam. Ishmael and Isaac. Esau and Jacob. We are either under law or grace. There is no luke warm. .

"law was not made for a righteous man(Christians) but for.....UNGODLY and SINNERS" 1Tim1:9.
---Haz27 on 6/22/10


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Duane, before God I'm righteous. Not because of anything I've done, because of the imputed righteousness of Christ. When God sees me, He sees Christ righteousness.
You said, "Christ never saves the flesh, it will die."The flesh dies because it is sinful. Glorification takes place after we die, then we will be presented to Christ completely sinless. In life everyone sins. The greatest sins are unbelief and pride. Even believers are many times in unbelief, yet all believers have pride. "If we say we have no sin the truth is not in us." "Enter not into judgment with thy servant, for no man living is righteous before Thee." "Surely there is not a righeous man on earth who does good and never sins"
---mark_V. on 6/22/10


A "saved" Christian denotes one who, having had his sins eradicated by the blood of Christ, appears before GOD as sinlesss!

But that doesn't make him INCAPABLE of sinning.
1Jo 1:5b-7 ...God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

(Even those who "walk in the light" need to be cleansed of their sin)

1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
---Donna66 on 6/21/10


Paul was not so arrogant as to say he does not sin!
---obewan on 6/21/10

Paul was writing about his experience as to when he was still in sin.

Think about this obewan, do you really think that God would chose sinners to be his teachers, Teachers that not only teach, but are to be examples of those who will be saved?
Remember Jesus was also a teacher, sent as a sinless example.

We have seen what happens to the church when a sinful teachers sins are exposed.
Has this benefited the church, or does it harm the Church?

In Gods foolishness he is wiser than the wisest man, do you honestly think that God would make sinners his teachers?
Is this the action of a God who is wise?
---David on 6/22/10


'atheist': "But I am am now quite perplexed, as according to mima, after you do what you consider is a "sin", if you have been "saved" apparently you can "sin" again and again without punishment."

Thus this blog question!

"I would not attempt to define "sin""

Then how can you expext to have a rational conversation about it if there is no mutual understanding of terms?
---jerry6593 on 6/22/10


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Romans 7:

14 We know that the law is spiritual, but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For what I do is not the good I want to do, no, the evil I do not want to dothis I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

Paul was not so arrogant as to say he does not sin!
---obewan on 6/21/10


Jesus did not make us sinless but rather not accountable for the sins we commit.---mima

So I take it that you all now have a free pass to commit any act I might consider wrong or unethical,---as long as that act qualifies as a "sin"?

Jerry, I would not attempt to define "sin" since as I mentioned in another blog, that definition seems wholly dependent on a particular adherent's interpretation of what he believes is the correct scripture, aka "the word of god".

But I am am now quite perplexed, as according to mima, after you do what you consider is a "sin", if you have been "saved" apparently you can "sin" again and again without punishment.
---atheist on 6/21/10


Mima, Mark, or anyone
The whole heart of the Gospel is freedom from sin. If YOU are committing sin, your a sinner. Now tell me, WHO is you? Are YOU a child of God? Have you been made righteous?
Are you perfect in HIS sight? That is the only way you will make it. I am not talking the flesh being perfect. Christ never saves the flesh, it will die. Its YOU, your spirit, your new life. You were born again for a purpose. That purpose is NOT being a sinner but to be a child of God. If you are saved, you are perfect in HIS sight without sin. You are dead to sin now. YOU do NOT commit sin anymore as long as you live by faith in HIM.
---duane on 6/21/10


Duanne, you are right that in Christ we are perfect and therefore no longer sinners.
1John3:9 "Whoever is born of God does not commit sin, for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God".
Christians are rightesous in the eyes of God, and "..if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?"1Peter4:18
---Haz27 on 6/21/10


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//Duane, no one is mocking their salvation, all that you said is true "in the Spirit." Not in the flesh for all are still in the flesh.//

MarkV, that is not even Scriptural. The Word says,

Romans 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

All of Romans 8 for context.

MarkV, if you are in the flesh, you do not have the Spirit of God dwelling in you.
---Linda on 6/21/10


Duane: The old man hasn't died yet, we still have the ole nature rising up. The more of God's word we put in us and obey him, we die daily..
---Rebecca_D on 6/21/10


///David, you used different passages that have their own context. ---Mark_V. on 6/20/10

Mark, I have already answered you on this, but for some reason it didn't post.
What do the words TAKE AWAY sin in Hebrews 10:4 mean to you?
I was showing that it does not mean forgiveness, so what do you think it means?
---David on 6/21/10


///And to David, how many sins of omission have you committed? Mark_V. on 6/21/10

Those born of God do not sin.(1st John 3:9)
Mark what sin is John talking about in 1st John 3:9?
If you read 1st John 3:4 you will see that he was talking about the transgression of the Law.
Where are the sins of omission in the Law?

When Jesus gave instructions to the man in Matthew 19:17-19 where are the sins of omission?
---David on 6/21/10


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Jesus did not make us sinless but rather not accountable for the sins we commit.-----
---mima on 6/21/10


We are forgiven of sin through Jesus Christ.

However Jesus came to deal with the power of Sin in our life. Therefore just to say..we are free from the punishment is not exactly correct. As a SAVED person NOW, TODAY( not in everlasting hell) I will be held accountable for my sin. If I continue to sin in any area that I know is sin and refuse to repent and turn from it....IT WILL BE FOUND OUT and dealt with.

Example:
Ted Haggard, Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Baker etc, have all been PUBLICLY dealt with and brought low!!
---kathr4453 on 6/21/10


Duane, no one is mocking their salvation, all that you said is true "in the Spirit." Not in the flesh for all are still in the flesh. The flesh was not redeemed. Our spirit was. Every gift is spiritual, our baptism is Spiritual, our sins have been spiritually forgiven, our eternal life with Christ is spiritual, our salvation is spiritual, the convictions that come to the heart are spiritual for they too come from the Holy Spirit. The righteousness imputed to us is also spiritual and sinless, its the righeousness of Christ. We were not given a new nature, but we were made a new creation. Our old sinful nature of the flesh is still with us, not until we die and we receive our new bodies prepared for eternity.
---Mark_V. on 6/21/10


---duane I want to be counted among those who believe the following.
1. Saved.

2. Still committing Sin.

3. Absolutely certain of the security of my salvation.

My sins and yours and everybody's have been paid for on the cross of Calgary. It is for this reason that we can be saved(made the righteousness of Jesus Christ) in the father eyes.
We cannot nullify what Jesus has done we can only refuse to accept what he has done.
Jesus did not make us sinless but rather not accountable for the sins we commit.
We are not free to sin rather we are free from the punishment of our sins because Jesus took that punishment for us.
And it is for this reason that we will praise him, and do praise him, for all eternity
---mima on 6/21/10



Now many here claim they sin, are sinners and still claim to be saved and cant lose there salvation. How redicules is this?
Everyone gives examples of sin. Yes, in Adam all sin. If your still in Adam, dont expect salvation or freedom from sin. If your in Christ, your set free. The old man has died. You have been born from above, Christ lives in you. There is no sin in you or can be in you. Jesus came to put away sin so we could be perfect in his sight. We have become the rightenousness of God. We are saints.
Dont insult the work of the Cross by saying sin still rules. Its dead. If we are still alive to sin, we are dead to God.

---duane on 6/21/10


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'atheist': "Are you asking because your animalistic amoral kill or be killed Darwinian genetically derived impulses are starting to make you lose control?"

Is that what causes you to go against the same 'moral nature' you derived from the same source? Can the same genetics cause both morality and immorality? Just asking. First, we should define terms. What does "sin" mean to you. I have an exact definition, but I don't know what yours is. Is it moral relativism, and thus different for everyone?
---jerry6593 on 6/21/10


Linda, your answer is perfectly correct when you said,
"However, inaction is sin also if it oppresses the poor or fails to show love to a brother"
When you claim to have power to heal 100%, and you avoid going to the children hospitals and praying for those children and infants who have cancer, you are sinning by not helping any of them.

And to David, how many sins of omission have you committed? How many of you walk in the Spirit every second of the day? There is no one who meets the standard of Almighty God, not a one. All for short of the glory of God. The Spirit within you might be free indeed but the flesh is not. It needs to be redeemed, and will be when we will receive our new bodies.
---Mark_V. on 6/21/10


Jerry,

Are you asking because your animalistic amoral kill or be killed Darwinian genetically derived impulses are starting to make you lose control? What "sin" is it that you feel the need to commit? Think of the effects your actions might have on others in this world in the here and now,---maybe that will help...
---atheist on 6/20/10


We all need to realize that there are sins of commission and sins of omission.

And, as far as this perfectionism goes, we are warned that if a person calls another person fool, they are in danger of the fires of hell. Now, how many of us "Christians" might be caught doing that to a bad driver that cuts us off? Sin?

And, what about Matt 25 (I think) and giving to those in need? How many of us might cross the street to avoid a homeless person - or deny health coverage to those in need? Sin too? Must be serious because we are warned there is Hell to pay!
---obewan on 6/20/10


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"Therefore I say, 'Walk in the Spirit and ye shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.'"

Sin starts as a lust of the flesh. "We are tempted when we are drawn away of our OWN lusts and enticed. And when lust is conceived, it brings forth sin and sin, when it is finished, brings forth death." That can be death to health, death to relationships, death to peace, death to joy.......if we are led by the Spirit, we will not be led into temptation. No temptation, no opportunity. No opportunity, no sin. That takes care of the sins of actions. However, inaction is sin also if it oppresses the poor or fails to show love to a brother. The bottom line is that the lust of the flesh is of the world and seeks its own.
---Linda on 6/20/10


No Donna I am not saying this of all believers.
Some believers are as John said in 1st John 2:12-14, Little Children, Young Men and Fathers,
Notice that John congratulates the young men for defeating the Evil one.
Who is the Evil One?
How does one defeat the Evil one, unless they have defeated Evil.
1st John 2:6 tells us that we must walk as Jesus walked.
Was Jesus a sinner?
The Fathers and the Young Men that John refers to are what is known as the Overcomer.
The little Children are those who have yet to defeat the Evil one, but if they live by the Truth (1st John 2:4).
Someday I pray they will all be called overcomers and Sons.
---David on 6/20/10


No, Christians do not sin because we are are free from the law of sin and death Rom8:2, so how can we sin (i.e trangress it, 1John3:4)?
Christians are "dead to the law by the body of Christ..."Rom7:4. Since Christians are DEAD TO THE LAW why judge Christians as sinners i.e trangressors of this law that we are dead to?

Gal 2:19,20 also tells us that Christians are "DEAD TO THE LAW"....I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, YET NOT I, but CHRIST LIVES IN ME..."

Thats why God says in 1John3:6-9 that Christians do not sin.
---Haz27 on 6/20/10


David, you used different passages that have their own context. You cannot make one context of different passages. Take Romans 7:14-17, "For we know the law is spiritual" Here the law reflects God's holy character. For He is Spirit and does not sin. Carnal, literally means (flesh) which means earthbound, mortal and still incarcerated in unredeemed humaness. Paul does not say he is in (the flesh) but the flesh is in him, (The unredeemed flesh) his sin nature (v.7:5). "Sold under sin" Sin no longer controls the whole man (as with unbelievers (6:6) but it does hold captive the believers members or his fleshly body (V.23, 18). Sin contaminate him and frustrates his inner desire to obey the will of God.
---Mark_V. on 6/20/10


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Jesus said that anyone who sins is not Saved, ... ---David on 6/19/10

I am not arguing, but could you quote the Scripture verse?
---aka.joseph on 6/19/10


david -- Are you saying Christians don't sin?
---Donna66 on 6/20/10


I agree, duane on 6/19/10

Most believers think when the Bible says Take Away sin, it is talking about the forgiveness of sin, and not the complete removal of sin from the sinner.
Hebrew 10:4 says that the blood of Bulls and Goats could not take away sin.
Leviticus 4:19-21 tells us that the Animal Sacrifice was able to bring atonement and forgiveness of sin to the sinner.
Now since it is well documented in Leviticus, that the animal sacrifice was able to bring forgiveness to the sinner, Hebrews10:4 has to be talking about the complete removal of sin from the sinner.
If one understands this then they have no need to change the wording in the Bible to match their beliefs, as they do in 1st John 3:9-10.
---David on 6/20/10


///If anyone thinks that a saved Christian can not sin they are sadly deceived and the truth is not in them. obewan on 6/19/10

Jesus said that anyone who sins is not Saved (sic), so your argument is not with me, but is with the Son of God.
---David on 6/19/10

I did not say that saved Christians are free to sin. It said it is possible for them to sin. There is a huge difference.

And, Jesus was talking to people who continue to engage in wanton willful rebellious sin without repenting. You are quoting him out of context.
---obewan on 6/20/10


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/// In the passage you cite, Jesus is speaking to the JEWS who DID NOT yet UNDERSTAND Savation nor the message of Jesus.
Donna66 on 6/19/10

That's true Donna, however Jesus says in John 8:35 that anybody who sins is a Slave to sin, he didn't say only Jews who sin are slaves to sin.

Also Paul said that all believers are Abrahams children.(Galatians 3:7)
---David on 6/19/10


We had better be without sin when death comes knockin, for Sin shall NEVER enter in.
Christ came for a purpose, to take sin away. If HE didnt TAKE SIN AWAY for us, then we had better be sinLESS.
So many here believe they will always sin, they need to confess/repent to be forgiven, they are in and out of forgiveness for the rest of there lives, never knowing they ARE already forgiven and set free from sin. Sin holds most Christians in its power because they dont want to believe in the power of the Cross. What a sad and joyless Christian life they lead.
---duane on 6/19/10


///If anyone thinks that a saved Christian can not sin they are sadly deceived and the truth is not in them. obewan on 6/19/10

Jesus said that anyone who sins is not Saved, so your argument is not with me, but is with the Son of God.
---David on 6/19/10


MarkV: OK, Glad YOU brought it up. If a Christian is "saved", but is not free to sin, is he then free to break ANY of the Ten Commandments?
---jerry6593 on 6/19/10


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If anyone thinks that a saved Christian can not sin they are sadly deceived and the truth is not in them.

Why have the command to confess our sins before taking communion if saved Christians can not sin?
---obewan on 6/19/10


//David, John 8:35 is speaking of habitual sin. We are free from the slavery of sin.
Mark_V. on 6/19/10

A Slave is one who sins against their will.(Romans 7:14-20)
If you are not a Slave to sin and you still sin, why do you sin?
If you are not a Slave to sin, you are free to do as you choose.

Hebrews 10:26-27 KJV
"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries."

---David on 6/19/10


david -- I used the same wording as the question. And yes, I believe that "saved", in that sense, means having eternal life.
In the passage you cite, Jesus is speaking to the JEWS who DID NOT yet UNDERSTAND Savation nor the message of Jesus.
Jhn 8:32-36 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: [but] the Son abideth ever.
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
---Donna66 on 6/19/10


David, John 8:35 is speaking of habitual sin. We are free from the slavery of sin.
"And as slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed"
Another thing, all genuine believers who abide in Christ, and here "abide" means to continue in Christ and His teachings, will receive new bodies after death, which are glorified and sinless prepared for us for eternity.
---Mark_V. on 6/19/10


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//How I WISH that saved Christians were unable to sin! Donna66 on 6/18/10

Donna,
When you use the term "Saved" doesn't this mean that one has Eternal Life, that one will live forever?
Does Jesus say that a sinner will live forever in John 8:35?


---David on 6/19/10


Ok Jerry, here we go again with a trick question, pretty soon you will hit us with the Ten Commandments and then the Sabbath. It never fails.
---Mark_V. on 6/18/10


\\Nobody is free to sin. That's why we constantly repent.

Repentance is a life-style, NOT a once-for-all event.
---Cluny on 6/18/10

Cluny, then why did King David committ adultery with Bathsheba, then when she got pregnant, he had her husband killed. Wasn't he free to sin? Weren't those sins his free-will that he chose to sin?\\

Comparing Christianity with pre-Christian, yea, pre-exile Judaism is like comparing apples and oranges.

I will agree that God permits us to misuse our free will. But this is not the same thing as saying we are free to sin.
---Cluny on 6/18/10


How I WISH that saved Christians were unable to sin!
Turning our lives over to Christ makes us WANT to live in a way that is pleasing to Him.
So, day by day, we must make choices about some actions or some thoughts that we entertain. Some of these choices get easier with time...but then, again, as we grow in the Lord,we may begin to see areas of sinfulness in our lives that we did not notice before. The Christian life is a process.
---Donna66 on 6/18/10


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Freedom from sin is the heart of the Gospel.
Freedom from sins punishment is the result of Christ taking sin away. Christ overcame sin for us. We dont overcome sin.
HE is the way.
If we have to overcome sin in this life, then we have no Gospel.(good news)
I know very few here will accept this, it isnt what most are taught in churches.
---duane on 6/18/10


//Wasn't he free to sin? Weren't those sins his free-will that he chose to sin?

What about when he repented, didn't he suffer the consequences of his sin? We are free to sin, it's a matter of whether or not we choose to sin.//

David didn't have a born again spirit. The Spirit of the Lord could come upon him but did not abide in him. And no, he did not suffer the consequences according to the law. He had a double death sentence upon him, one for adultery and one for murder...and should have been dead before dark. But Nathan the prophet came and told him that his iniquities had been pardoned. He did lose the child (the fruit if his sin of adultery). He mourned until the fruit died.
---Linda on 6/18/10


God is different. What we may believe is sin God may say it's not. We only know in-part. In any case, when we do sin, when we do sin, in the eyes of God, you will know it. Until you know it, you keep going. God's ways will absolutely amaze you. Ahhh. He is on the side of His people. He's on your side, not the wicked. He is going to send the wicked, right into everlasting hell. OBEY GOD IN EVERYTHING, IN THIS LIFE. Well Jesus expects us to be sweet. Only now and then. Don't smile at sin. Don't be sweet at sin in others. Don't forget to ask God to forgive you of all your sins. What a great privilege to know God....THANK YOU JESUS++Look UP.
---catherine on 6/18/10


God has not given any one permission to sin.
---Eloy on 6/18/10


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//Christians are free from the punishment of sin.//

Christians who overcome are free from the eternal punishment of sin, but we are still bound to the results of sin in this lifetime.
---aka.joseph on 6/18/10


Sin and salvation do not mix with God. If you claim to be Christian, you cannot sin.
Your set free from sin and therefore sin has no power over you.
A saved sinner is impossible, for no sin shall enter in.
---duane on 6/18/10


Nobody is free to sin. That's why we constantly repent.

Repentance is a life-style, NOT a once-for-all event.
---Cluny on 6/18/10

Cluny, then why did King David committ adultery with Bathsheba, then when she got pregnant, he had her husband killed. Wasn't he free to sin? Weren't those sins his free-will that he chose to sin?

What about when he repented, didn't he suffer the consequences of his sin? We are free to sin, it's a matter of whether or not we choose to sin.
---Donna5535 on 6/18/10


I do not sin intentionally as to abuse the Grace of God.As scripture says: "The life i live in this body i live by faith in the Son of God, who loves me and gave is life for me". Greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world.
---JIM on 6/18/10


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Nobody is free to sin. That's why we constantly repent.

Repentance is a life-style, NOT a once-for-all event.
---Cluny on 6/18/10


No

But we must remember that all people are sinful, so we must fight against sin in ourselves
---peter3594 on 6/18/10


A disciple is freed from the bondage of sin and freed from the cost to redeem the spirit within each of us. The latter is instantaneous.

Since, in this lifetime, our spirit is still encased by sinful flesh and its tendencies, we must allow the Spirit to replace our flesh's sinful nature with the fruits of the Holy Spirit.

Christians (and everybody else) are free to continue in sin without consideration of the Spirit, but they should not expect Grace or the Kingdom.
---aka.joseph on 6/18/10


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