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Nine Catholic Commandments

An RCC Bible which I have seen includes in full the first two of the Ten Commandments, including the prohibition of Idol-making. I've also seen the 10 commandments in full on the wall of an RC church. Why do some Protestants here insist that the RCC Bible omits this part of the 10 commandments?

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 ---alan8566_of_uk on 6/21/10
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One of the 10 is, not to make any graven images & or the such like. The rcc does any way & they think they can get by with it, Not so.

If you fail in One you are guilty of all.

The rcc, Rev.17 v's 4 - 6.
---Lawrence on 8/12/10


No John, I am not really sorry for you ... not now that you have stated so clearly that it is quite acceptable, even praiseworthy, to lie.


I am though, extremely sad that someone who professes to be a Christian thinks it is OK to give false witness. Have you not heard of the Ten Commandments?
---alan8566_of_uk on 7/18/10


Alan, are you really sad for me, with God as our Witness?

I am happy that the truth is being set free, that's indubitably Christian!

But you want to accuse and convict Protestants for promulgating this lie, but I tell you, it serves Catholicism better to have the lie circulate than the truth.

If people believed it were the D-R bible, then most would pin the error on that bible, I mean, how many would investigate? But now, with your unwitting assistance, their heretical catechism has Catholicism firmly and flat-footedly in the dock now.

As it is written: "He catches the wise in their craftiness".
---John_II on 7/18/10


John ... I myself said that that commandment was not in the Catholic Catechism. I don't want to get them off that hook.

But it is a lie that it is not in their Bible.

I am sad that you seem to think it is OK to promulgate that lie.

It's bit like thinking that because someone is a thief, it is OK to call them a murderer.
---alan8566_of_uk on 7/18/10


Alan, so it's been identified that the commandment is omitted from the catechism but not from its D-R Bible (though Eloy has submitted a remarkable discrepancy). I believe your agenda is to get Catholicism off the hook on this matter, even give them some merit, but the catechism is still of its teaching which makes it even worse because this attests to their adulteration of God's Word. Your strategem is evident: you declare that you know the answer anyway, you insincerely ask "Am I wrong?", and you state that you don't want an arguement, yet you provocatively suggest it must be those confused, hate-filled Protestants!

You sought to strike a blow at Protestant but only exposed more Catholic wickedness.
---John_II on 7/17/10




\\Marriage, Contraception she has been lax on those areas...
---Ruben on 7/1/10\\

Contraception is seen as a pastoral and medical issue by the Orthodox, not a moral one. Individual Orthodox theologians and spiritual fathers have spoken against it.)

As regards marriage, the Melkite Catholic Abp. Elias Zoghby offered an intervention at Vatican II for reconsideration of remarriage after divorce, quoting Eastern writers, and saying they were no less able moral theologians and scriptural exegetes than those of the West.
---Cluny on 7/1/10


\\ Young boys being abused. Graven images everywhere. Need I say more.\\

It's not only young boys, but young girls, too.

And this happens DESPITE the teaching of the RCC.

I know that it happens in Protestant Churches, too.

Furthermore, teachers are more likely to sexually abuse students than clergy are. Just yesterday I heard of THREE cases of female teachers who seduced numerous teenage boys.

Finally, I've already referred to the cloth idols in Protestant churches.

Need I say more?
---Cluny on 7/1/10


\\But yet the Orthodox stand toe to toe with Protestants on sexual morality\\

Be specific. How?
---Cluny on 6/30/10


Marriage, Contraception she has been lax on those areas...
---Ruben on 7/1/10


I took a study on this subject of filioquism a short time back and want to hear what you both have to say to each other. We might learn something.
---MarkV. on 6/30/10

Well Mark you're about to see fireworks. But then again it is Independence Day!
---John on 6/30/10


Cluny:

Just what IS the "real" problem with Filioquism (either pro or con)? In what way does it affect one's faith, or one's actions with respect to one's faith? If it has no effect, then it's just meaningless hair-splitting.
---StrongAxe on 6/30/10




I truly don't mean to but in. I'm new to this blogging stuff so I hope its ok to but in. I only want to comment on the RCC. If you do your homework you will know exactly what the RCC is all about. I do not believe that they are the true church. I will not bash them but I have done plenty of research about this subject. You can too. That's what internet is for. But do be careful if you start to study other things. Some of them are weard. I would like to mention some thins that you probubly already know. Young boys being abused. Graven images everywhere. Need I say more.
---cindy on 6/30/10


\\But yet the Orthodox stand toe to toe with Protestants on sexual morality\\

Be specific. How?
---Cluny on 6/30/10


Cluny, you are trying to confuse the topic now, you want to jump from Idol worship, or the second commandment to the subject of filioquism. What has the second commandment have to do with that?
And when I said,
"What God does, does not mean we have the right to do it also"
Of course I didn't mean He made the Ark of the Covenant, but He ordered it to be made. The orders came from Him. And what you are saying that since He can give such orders, the RCC can give the same ones, build statues, it ok to venerate them, its ok to bow down to them, in fact its ok to believe in them. They are giving the orders now.
---MarkV. on 6/30/10


Ruben/Cluny, both of you have so much pride in your denominations. The real Truth is left out and only what each other teach as far as traditions and opinions is left. Go for it. I want to see how you both handle each other with the subject of filioquism. I took a study on this subject of filioquism a short time back and want to hear what you both have to say to each other. We might learn something.
---MarkV. on 6/30/10


Cluny* Nobody here has said a word about the REAL problem, which is Filioquism.

Love to talk to you about that. Open up a blog question...

Cluny* Could it be that Protestants are so infected with it--after all, they got it from their mother Rome--that they don't recognize it in themselves?


But yet the Orthodox stand toe to toe with Protestants on sexual morality. She no longer stands with the Catholic Church, who is the only Church to have stay put on teaching of sexual morality for 2,000 years. When Jesus said " the gates of hell will not prevail against his Church". It is truly His Church.
---Ruben on 6/30/10


Nobody here has said a word about the REAL problem, which is Filioquism.

Could it be that Protestants are so infected with it--after all, they got it from their mother Rome--that they don't recognize it in themselves?
---Cluny on 6/30/10

You make a good point and perhaps should have a blog on Filioquism, Augustine and the Trinity etc.

Suffice to say the Orthodox regard the filioque as dangerous and heretical.

However: your point on the subtle idol worshipping of Protestants is well taken. I have often commented on it myself. I have said the RCC and Orthos are unabashed and upfront on their traditions. Something the Protestants are not.
---John on 6/30/10


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To say a church follows Mother Rome used to be in protestant circles an insult. It adds nothing to a true debat except showing that a person is more into insults then actual discussion.

Now I admit I had to look up Filioquism or the doctrine that the HOLY SPIRIT proceeds equally from the Son and the Father. I also agree with the articel I read that most people consider this to be an unimportant arguement.

The RCC numbers the Ten Commandments differently then Protestants and often shortens them in places to drop the idols point that is true. Yet their Bible which I have copies of lists the same rules.
---Samuel on 6/30/10


\\I was answering to the explanation that God did something He wanted to do.\\

Are you saying that God Himself made the Ark of the Covenant and other furnishings of the Tabernacle and Temple with their sacred images?
---Cluny on 6/30/10


\\I know you are not RCC yet You have defended it and you are not RCC.\\

I'm not defending the RCC where it's wrong.

I'm pointing out that what many people here have said about the RCC is in fact not accurate. In almost all cases, it's NOT what the Roman Church actually teaches or does.

Nobody here has said a word about the REAL problem, which is Filioquism.

Could it be that Protestants are so infected with it--after all, they got it from their mother Rome--that they don't recognize it in themselves?
---Cluny on 6/30/10


Cluny, I am not here to belittel you in any way. I know you are not RCC yet You have defended it and you are not RCC. I really do not know if your denomination feels the same way or not. What is truth is truth. What God does, does not mean we have the right to do it also. I was answering to the explanation that God did something He wanted to do. He is the standard of righteousness. He cannot sin as we can. When He gives a commandment like the one on sacred images, it is to be obeyed. The Bible reveals to us that whenever God's people began making sacred images, it was a clear sign that they had departed from God. There practices never drew them to God. Without exception it had the opposite effect. It's the story of Israel.
---MarkV. on 6/30/10


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However, not even YOU can deny that in during His earthly sojourn, Jesus was subject to His mother and foster-father. The Bible clearly says so: Luke 2:51.
---Cluny on 6/29/10

The Keyword is "EARTHLY"!

He is now in his glory. And only did that to fufill a Commandment. As he did on everything when he was here on Earth to give us examples of how we should live. (i.e. Being Baptist).

He now has NO mother and his Father is G-d Almighty. He is now Lord of the universe!

Not Marys little infant.
---John on 6/29/10


\\Cluny, God can do whatsoever He so desires to do. You are not God and neither is Ruben. Just because God wants to display His Ark of the Covenant in a perticular way, it does not give any the right to disobey God\\

MarkV, you stated in an earlier post that whenever anyone decided to make sacred images, it meant this person had departed from God.

I was just showing you FROM THE BIBLE how God Himself ordered the making of sacred images.

And then you accuse me of saying things I didn't say and doing things I don't do.

Why?
---Cluny on 6/29/10


\\As "THE MOTHER OF G-D" she is not only G-d to you, but above G-d since she is His mother. A mother is above her child.\\

Wrong again, as in everything else you say about me, John.

I worship God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirt.

However, not even YOU can deny that in during His earthly sojourn, Jesus was subject to His mother and foster-father. The Bible clearly says so: Luke 2:51.
---Cluny on 6/29/10


Mark forgot to mention that they were calling it Nehushtan(a god), doubt it if anyone is calling a statue of Mary a god!
---Ruben on 6/29/10

LET THERE BE NO DOUBT!!!

That is exactly what the RCC is calling Mary (AKA: Queen of the Universe AKA: Mother of G-d AKA: Blessed Mother.

As "THE MOTHER OF G-D" she is not only G-d to you, but above G-d since she is His mother. A mother is above her child.

As the droves of RCC members bow their knees, give offerings, burn candles, kiss and cry at the RCC Holy Shrines of Mary (Guadalupe, Fatima, Lourdes). They are there to worship Mary and no one else!!!

PLEASE LET BE HONEST ON WHO YOU WORSHIP! FOR WHERE YOUR HEART IS, SO IS YOUR G-D!
---John on 6/29/10


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Cluny, God can do whatsoever He so desires to do. You are not God and neither is Ruben. Just because God wants to display His Ark of the Covenant in a perticular way, it does not give any the right to disobey God. You are saying because He decided to do something you have the right to do something too. He Killed thousands of people, does it give you the same right?
That is the excuse everyone gives who worship saints and statues. God said no, and you say yes. Now who is wrong? You.
---MarkV. on 6/29/10


Ruben from San Antonio, I bet its hot in Texas.
I haven't spoken of Mary for a while. I have been talking about the Second Commandment which was ommited from your catechism.
1. To worship God through the medium of a sacred image is to engage in Idolatry.
2. An image or statue of Christ can never display the fulness of Christ. The true image of Christ includes His eternal deity, incarnation, atoning death, and victorious resurrection.
Now you live close to San Juan Shrine, in San Juan Texas. When you go there you will find Jesus statue laying dead in a coffin made out of glass. No one pays any attention to Him. What they have done is to showcase a dead Christ, in a coffin of glass. He is not dead, He has risen for He is God.
---MarkV. on 6/29/10


\\MarkV* The Bible reveals to us that whenever God's people began making sacred images, it was a clear sign that they had departed from God.

No Mark, what the Bible reveals is God is not against sacred images but only when you start to call it a god....\\

Quite right, Reuben.

God ordered images of cherubim to decorate the Ark of the Covenant, the Tabernacle, and later the Temple.

And how about the Sea of Bronze that rested on the backs of 12 brazen bulls?
---Cluny on 6/29/10


MarkV* He broke into pieces the bronze snake Moses had made, for up to that time the Israelites had been burning incense to it" (2 Kings 18:4).

Mark forgot to mention that they were calling it Nehushtan(a god), doubt it if anyone is calling a statue of Mary a god!

MarkV* The Bible reveals to us that whenever God's people began making sacred images, it was a clear sign that they had departed from God.

No Mark, what the Bible reveals is God is not against sacred images but only when you start to call it a god....
---Ruben on 6/29/10


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John, your correct, I went through the same thing. Never really knowing Scripture. Had no passion to learn, and just wanted to be like everyone else who was Catholic. The problem with Israel was that no matter how many times God was there for them, they went back to Idol worship. Do you remember and icident that occured in Israel history which might inlighten others. On their way to the promise land, the Israelites complained and murmured against God and His servant Moses? God punished them by sending poisonous snakes among the people. But in His mercy He also provided a cure for those bitten by the snakes. He instructed Moses to make a bronze snake and mount it on a pole. All who looked upon the bronze snake were healed.
---MarkV. on 6/29/10


John 2:
The power for healing was not in the object itself, but in God. Centuries later, Israel began venerating and burning incense before the bronze serpent. In a reformation, King Hezekiah "removed the high places, smashed the sacred stones..He broke into pieces the bronze snake Moses had made, for up to that time the Israelites had been burning incense to it" (2 Kings 18:4). The Israelites may have thought they were honoring God by what they were doing, but it was never God's intention for this bronze serpent to become an object of veneration. When it did, God was offended. What the RCC does now. The Bible reveals to us that whenever God's people began making sacred images, it was a clear sign that they had departed from God.
---MarkV. on 6/29/10


Cluny:

The Second Commandment is actually two separate commandments:
Exodus 20:4-5 (also Deutronomy 5:8-9):
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: ..."

So not only is the worship of graven images forbidden, the mere CREATION of graven images is forbidden as well, whether to worship them or not. (One can conjecture that this is the case because even innocent images could inadvertently tempt people into idolatry, and it's harder without any images at all).
---StrongAxe on 6/29/10


MarkV, I remember when I grew up as a Catholic, Jesus was this unknown man in the background.

Mary was the savior and Goddess. Jesus was just her baby. He was always portrayed as an infant on Marys lap.

He was definately second to Mary in the Catholic faith.

I'm glad I saw the light of Christ in all that darkness. His truth set me free from this Demon-ination.
---John on 6/29/10


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John, I am suprise that Cluny denies the worship of Mary and others at the shrines. I don't know what kind of shrines they have in Europe but in this country, Mexico and all the latin countries we have lots of Shrines. I have gone to three of them, people even have small shrines in their homes. My wife's grandmother, had a shrine with Mary and all the candles to her and she would get on her knees and ask her to speak to God. She was the go between man and God, not Jesus. Jesus picture of course was on the wall in the bedroom. I guess to remind her in case she forgot about Jesus. They actually deny the do that.
---MarkV. on 6/28/10


||Nevertheless, this was still considered idolatry.
---StrongAxe on 6/28/10||

Actually, StrongAxe, the Greek word "eidolatreia" means giving the LATREIA that belongs to God alone to anything else.

If, in the pre-Reformation churches, any LATRY exists other than THEOLATRY, it does so in spite of the teaching of the Churches, not because of it.
---Cluny on 6/28/10


alan8566_of_uk:

I doubt whether a pagan (who had himself cut an image out of stone) would have been foolish enough to seriously believe that the work of his own hands was actually a god. He likely also worshipped his gods "through" his idols. Nevertheless, this was still considered idolatry.
---StrongAxe on 6/28/10


\\They are DIRECTLY worshipping Mary ONLY !!! NOT CHRIST.
---JOHN on 6/27/10\\

Wrong again, as in most of what you say.
---Cluny on 6/28/10


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I know nobody who does that, and I challenge Mark to tell me how many he PERSONALLY knows who do.
---Cluny on 6/27/10

How Many go to the Shrines of...

OUR LADY OF LOURDES
OUR LADY OF FATIMA
OUR LADY OF GUADALUPE

And are on their Knees in tears. Praying, Kissing and worshipping these statues of Mary.

They are DIRECTLY worshipping Mary ONLY !!! NOT CHRIST.
---JOHN on 6/27/10


\\But Mark is not criticising their use as a help, but worshipping through them ... using them as a medium ... (something quite different)
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/27/10\\

I know nobody who does that, and I challenge Mark to tell me how many he PERSONALLY knows who do.
---Cluny on 6/27/10


Cluny ... we have photos of our loved ones, our spouse or our children, so that we can show other people what they look like, so that we can remember our children the changes as they grew up.

They may be a reminder to us as to how good God has been to us in giving them to us.

I suppose some may find images a help in the worship of God, although I certainly would not.

But Mark is not criticising their use as a help, but worshipping through them ... using them as a medium ... (something quite different)
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/27/10


Do you have photos of your loved ones?

Why?
---Cluny on 6/27/10


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Cluny, so your saying it's ok to worship God through a statue? Is that what you are saying? you must since you said no. Isn't the statues mediums? Or the pictures? If you bow down to a statue, in order to come to God, are you not in need of the statue to come to God? Jeremiah gave an example of what Israel was doing wrong in 10:3-5, 9-10. And at the end he says, "But the Lord is the true God, He is a living God, the eternal King" Why? Because the people build statues of His representation and they could not move, talk or answer prayers. The same is said in Isaiah 46:1-7, God had upheld them from the time they were conceived, and sustain them, and here they were making images and statues of Him, when no statue could help them.
---Mark_V. on 6/27/10


|| Idolatry consist not only in the worship of false gods, but also in the worship of the true God by images.||

No, it doesn't.
---Cluny on 6/26/10


Alan: Exactly! Although, I think that the motive is not hatred, but rather pure ignorance. Haven't you noticed on this very site the ignorance that many Christians have of what's in their OWN Bibles? It's almost as if they think that salvation is earned by disparaging the people of other Christian denominations.
---jerry6593 on 6/26/10


Cluny, I've never said you were a RCC. I already know that you are Eastern. I am talking about what you are defending.
The issue of images and idols, Second Commandment is very very important. It changes the whole church. Idolatry consist not only in the worship of false gods, but also in the worship of the true God by images. We are not to make use of visual or pictorial representations of the Truine God, or of any Person in the Trinity, for the purpose of Christain worship. The commandment thus deals not with the object of our worship, but with the manner of it. What it tells us is that statues and pictures of the One whom we worship are not to be used as an aid or medium to worshipping Him. A statue cannot display the fulness of God.
---Mark_V. on 6/25/10


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Jerry .. I'm not trying to be argumentative!

My question was about the RCC Bible, which you agree contains the whole 10C.

But others here insist that the RCC Bible excludes some of the 10C ... Why do they do that?

Perhaps it is they who are confused between the Bible and the catechism? Or Maybe, they in their excecessive hatred of(rather than reasoned disgreement with) with the RCC, intentionally confuse the issue?
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/25/10


"As I have posted before. Orthos and RCC are drench in self rightoues elitism and arrogance. Your post certainly proves I'm right." (John)

And you don't? You think you innocent of such? Based on your past posts, I don't think so.

It is YOU who always result to making ad hominem comments. We told you once before we do not have a Pope (like the RCC), yet you continue to spread the Lie. Is not the Satan the Father of Lies? You have been off the wall making insane accusation on us Eastern Orthodox Christians, and when we correct you, you get mad.

It is you who demonstrate the self-righteousness of a Pharisees, condemning others and spreading lies for your own egotism.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 6/25/10


I've noticed, John, that Prots like you make all kinds of weird claims about others, and when you're asked to back them up and can't do it, you stoop to ad hominem arguments.
---Cluny on 6/25/10


**Orthos and RCC are drench in self rightoues elitism and arrogance.**

And you never do, do you, John? Or do I detect some projection?

In any case, for those of you who are upset about scribal glosses and interpolations in the Bible, whether it be "For Thine is the kingdom..." or others, consider this.

The King James Version is FULL of scribal glosses and interpolations. What do you think all those italics are?

The KJV even interpolates an entire independent clause, making a half-verse in 1 John.
---Cluny on 6/25/10


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But if you can't understand the difference between a Roman Pope and a Eastern Patriarch, how can I expect you to understand other Matured Christian topics......?

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 6/24/10

As I have posted before. Orthos and RCC are drench in self rightoues elitism and arrogance. Your post certainly proves I'm right.

Cluny I posted wikipedia and since you are our resident Spellcheck. I believe you can spell G-O-O-G-L-E- and get the answer yourself. But I did provide the Proof you asked for.

However: in your elite arrogance it is always notice that your Religion is the final word and needs not provide proof to us lesser uneducated unenlighten individuals.

and I thought the Pharissee did that.
---John on 6/24/10


alan: "Jerry ... I am not confused ... I have not ever used the words Douai [sic] or nine."

If you are not confused, then you are intentionally confusing. Most of us translate "RCC Bible" as the Douay-Rheims version of the Bible, and I concur that it contains all Ten Commandments (I've read it.) Further, most of us are capable of subtraction of one Commandment from the Ten to get nine.

It is the RCC Catechism that is in error - not the RCC Bible. Why be so argumentative? I'm trying to agree with you.
---jerry6593 on 6/25/10


\\Cluny your arguemant is based soley on your Ortho/RCC belief that MAN (especially the Infalible Pope) can change the word of G-d at will. \\

In other words, you can't answer my question about what heresy "for Thine is the kingdom...." expresses.

For the rest of your post, you are crediting me with things I have never said nor believed.

Either you are assuming--and we know what to assume does to you.

Or you are slandering me--in which case we know who's your daddy.

** I'm sure you know that already but do take the catechisms of the RCC to be binding.**

MarkV, I've repeatedly said I'm NOT a Roman Catholic. Has that sunk in yet?
---Cluny on 6/24/10


John

"DO YOU PREFER THE TERM "PATRIARCH". A pope by any other name is STILL a pope!!!"

Actually, there is VAST difference between a "Patriarch" in the Eastern Traditions eyes than a "Pope" in the eye of the Roman Catholic Church. One is elevated to a higher authority, which is the Roman Pope. The Ecclesiology of the Roman Church is VERY different than the Ecclesiology of the Eastern Orthodox Church, and other Eastern Churches.

But if you can't understand the difference between a Roman Pope and a Eastern Patriarch, how can I expect you to understand other Matured Christian topics......?

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 6/24/10


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\\DO YOU PREFER THE TERM "PATRIARCH". A pope by any other name is STILL a pope!!!\\

Actually, no.

"Pope" implies something quite different from "Patriarch."

FWIW, there are several Eastern Patriarchs in communion with Rome, and from Rome's viewpoint, subservient to the Pope.

While you're ranting about the Lord's Prayer, "give us this day our daily bread" is a mistranslation. It actually says "bread that is above essence" or "supersubstantial bread" in the original.

Ignatius, Seg, Ruben, and I know what this is really talking about.
---Cluny on 6/24/10


John,
The Eastern Orthodox Church DO NOT have a Pope, your last post is just the babbling of a mad-man.
All we have is your word. Do you really think we will accept your teaching without any evidence?
In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 6/24/10

DO YOU PREFER THE TERM "PATRIARCH". A pope by any other name is STILL a pope!!!

All you need to do use GOOGLE

FROM WIKIPEDIA...
There are at least ten different versions of the doxology. Most scholars do not consider it part of the original text of Matthew, and modern translations do not include it, mentioning it only in footnotes. It has been included as an independent item, not as part of the Lord's Prayer.

SO.. WHO IS THE MAD MAN IGNATIUS?
---JOHN on 6/24/10


MarkV, Thank you. It is public knowledge that the catholic catechism totally omits the 2nd commandment forbidding making images and worshipping, and then they divide the 10th commandment into 2 separate commandments to make up for the 2nd commandment that they have omitted. You can find the catechismal 10 listed on the net showing their omission of the Biblical 2nd commandment at- www dot beginningcatholic dot com slash catholic hyphen ten hypen commandments dot html
---Eloy on 6/24/10


Jerry ... I am not confused ... I have not ever used the words Douai or nine.

I have seen an RC Bible with our second cammandment included in full, and seen the inscription of the complete commandments on the wall of a catholic church

Mark ... I know full well about the catechism ... I have been talking all along about the Bible.

The fact that the catechism fails to mention it is another issue.
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/24/10


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Cluny, Eloy is right on his comments concerning the Ten Commandments. I'm sure you know that already but do take the catechisms of the RCC to be binding. I tried to explain to Alan concerning the very same thing. While RCC is willing to sacrifice the Second Commandment completely, It is the one thing I believe in all their teachings to be the worst thing they have done. Catechism 1192 gives them the right to have images, bow down to them, and venerate them, to have them in their homes also. And of course they have an excuse for removing the Second Commandment.
To worship God through the medium of a sacred image is to engage in idolatry. No image can capture the fullness of the Lord.
---Mark_V. on 6/24/10


Cluny, So what if unsaved people use new fandangled unholy books today instead of the Holy Bible, for that is their own choice to feed upon man's false words rather than upon God's true words. And the Douay-Rheims catholic bible and the renouned KJV Christian Bible are two of the most famous English translations still used today. Now if all the world wants to run after and scarf up bogus books wrongly misnamed as the Holy Bible, when they are proven to be unholy, then that is their own error and their loss.
---Eloy on 6/24/10


John,

The Eastern Orthodox Church DO NOT have a Pope, like the Roman Catholic Church. Thereby, your last post is just the babbling of a mad-man.........

The problem is that YOU HAVE NOT provided any evidence that "For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory,for ever and ever" was never part of the original manuscript and you have not provided what heresy this phrase teach.

All we have is your word. Do you really think we will accept your teaching without any hardcore evidence? Or do you consider yourself a Pope?

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 6/24/10


Alan: You are confused. It is not the Douay Bible that contains nine Commandments - it contains ten. It is the Catholic Catechism that omits the second and splits the tenth in two to keep the total at ten. Look it up for yourself.

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws:
---jerry6593 on 6/24/10


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I've never heard any Protestant waste any time on such rubbish as the RCC bible.
The problem with the RCC is the RCC, its religion and not relationship.
With religion is all the foolishness of infallible man, rote worship services, form over holy living, praying to Mary, confessional before men, beatification, purgatory and other subtle satanic (man-based) rituals.
This is not true of course of all Catholics but true of the church as an institution.
---larry on 6/23/10


Cluny your arguemant is based soley on your Ortho/RCC belief that MAN (especially the Infalible Pope) can change the word of G-d at will.

In fact you are saying that man must interpret the direct word of Jesus since he cannot express himself properly.

In your belief, the Pope is superior to G-d and The Christ and is the final authority.

So invariably you would not see any problems AT ALL with someone adding some extra words to the direct word spoken by Jesus.

Because you are blind to G-d and His son. To you they are inferior to the Orthos Church Traditions and YOUR godhead The Pope. Same is true to the RCCs.

So ... I will not cast my pearls bfore swine!
---John on 6/23/10


\\The Douay-Rheims Bible used by the catholics states in Exodus 20:3, "Thou shalt not have strange gods before me." But the King James Bible used by the Christians states in Exodus 20:3, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."\\

Eloy, did you know there are lots of Christians who don't use the KJV? Nobody used it at all for 1611 years until it was first published then.

And there are many more Christians who don't even speak English who would not be using it under any circumstances.
---Cluny on 6/23/10


\\As you know most people believe "For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory,for ever and ever". Is part of the Bible and was taught by Christ.\\

And you have offered no proof to the contrary.


\\. This scibal insert is heretical, as it usurps the direct teachings of Christ. \\

IF it is an interpolation, which is debatable and cannot be proven, what heresy does it teach?

Arianism? Adoptionism? Gnosticism? Docetism?

These are just a few. There are many heresies.

Which one specifically? Tell us.
---Cluny on 6/23/10


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Cluny while I do agree with your assertion on non biblical church practices.

I was NOT refering to church , but to scripture. The Doxology (as well other scibal inserts) are just as non biblical as YES a computer.

As you know most people believe "For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory,for ever and ever". Is part of the Bible and was taught by Christ.

And since this Prayer lesson and templete is crucial to our faith. This scibal insert is heretical, as it usurps the direct teachings of Christ. Distorting HIS direct word is blasphemy. It should be removed and the lay people retaught the truth. To set them free!
---John on 6/22/10


The Douay-Rheims Bible used by the catholics states in Exodus 20:3, "Thou shalt not have strange gods before me." But the King James Bible used by the Christians states in Exodus 20:3, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."
The 10 commandments in the catholic textbook, "Growing in Christian Morality" by Julia Ahlers, Barbara Allaire, and Carl Koch, page 40, totally omits the 2nd commandment. And then divides the 10th commandment into two separate commandments in order to replace the 2nd commandment which they have removed. And the authors of this textbook state, "These are the Ten Commandments, from Exodus, chapter 20, in the traditional way they are enumerated by Catholics."
---Eloy on 6/22/10


\\AND ALL THAT CLUNY DOES NOT MAKE IT BIBLICAL!\\

It's debatable whether the Doxology to the Lord's Prayer is in the original or not, but it's become accepted in most liturgical use.

But you have to admit that invitation hymns, altar calls, revivals, hymnals, pews, and even carrying your Bible to church are unbiblical, too (in the sense of not being in the Bible at all).

So are your posts to these blogs. Can you give any Biblical support for having a computer?
---Cluny on 6/22/10


Am I wrong in my understanding (and in what I have actually seen) that the RCC Bible contains the same prohibition of idol worship as the Protestant Bible?

If it does ... my question remains ... why do so many protestants here say that it does not?

Thank you.
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/22/10


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AND ALL THAT CLUNY DOES NOT MAKE IT BIBLICAL!

NOTE: The list of churches you sited are ALL (WITHOUT EXCEPTION) Paganist and Heretical.

Placing Decrees and Traditons of men above the Throne of G-d!!!
---JOHN on 6/22/10


\\I know also the RCC does not recite the Doxology in the Lord's prayer which is correct, since it was added by a scribe and is not bibical.\\

Since most Jewish prayers end with some doxology, even if it were not actually given by the Lord, it still would doubtless have been used.

All the Eastern Churches, including the Eastern Churches in communion with Rome, use this Doxology in some form. The Byzantine Churches add a Trinitarian reference, the Copts add "through Christ our Lord."

Even the present Latin rite includes it as the conclusion to a prayer immediately after the Lord's Prayer called the Embolism ("Deliver us...") at Mass.
---Cluny on 6/22/10


in reality the catholics have exactely the same ten commandements as any other Christian, they only use another style of divding them then us non-catholics. thats all. it is true however that they do not mention the words images and statues in their ten commandements because there are to many of those things in their church for whom they do bow down (however they do not bow down to them). as forbidden in the ten.
---Andy3996 on 6/22/10


The reason many think the RCC bible has only nine commandments is the Catachism and copies of the ten on some plates.

In many cases on plaques or wall plates the makers shorten the Ten Commandments down to make them fit. But in the RCC Catchsim they are number differently. The protestants list the first two as thou no other gods and the second as no graven images. The catchism puts these as one and in many cases only says no other gods. It then takes the Covet commandment and splits it up. All ten are in their Bible but not in the Catchism they teach out of. Also due to the change of order they are numbered differently. Honour parents is their 4th.
---Samuel on 6/22/10


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I know also the RCC does not recite the Doxology in the Lord's prayer which is correct, since it was added by a scribe and is not bibical. Orginal it was a marginal note of a scribe and was later added on to the prayer.

I believe this should be removed from all bibles, as this particuler prayer is a template for us to follow by the Lord Jesus Christ. It did not need a man to add on to it and thus currupting the teachings of our Lord. (Heresy)
---JOhn on 6/22/10


Because there are a lot of people (and they are not just Protestants, I can assure you) who think that the chapter and verse divisions of the Bible, which affects the numbering of the Commandments, are in the original texts.

Even my father, who was no dummy, thought that once upon a time.
---Cluny on 6/21/10


I'm not answering my own question ... but I would point out that the question Title "
Nine Catholic Commandments" is not of my choosing. In facxt the RCC still has ten commandments, not nine, the "protestant" first two being presented as one and the "protestant" tenth divided inot two, numbers 9 & 10

Please read the question actually asked.

Thanks
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/21/10


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