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What Is Sin

What is sin? Does it have relevance to "saved" Christians?

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 ---jerry6593 on 6/25/10
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Haz27: Yours is a dangerous position. You believe that you can do no wrong. You can lie, steal, murder, etc. with impugnity because you are now exempt from the penalty of the transgression of the law.

1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Sin is still the transgression of the law, whether you are a Christian or not. It is ONLY your past sins that are forgiven - your future ones still require independent repentance and forgiveness. Jesus said to mary: "GO AND SIN NO MORE."

Mat 5:18 ... Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law

Heaven and earth are still here.
---jerry6593 on 7/2/10


Haz, since the blog will soon close I wanted to thank you for discussing this matters with me. I hope that your walk with God will always bring joy and a passion to keep learning, peace I leave you
---Mark_V. on 7/2/10


Haz,
Keep on proclaiming the Cross of Christ. The Cross set us free from sin. This IS the Gospel. Lets proclaim HIS death and resurrection to all.
It seems even proclaiming Christians dont understand what the good news is. When God says you have freedom from sin, you are set free indeed. Dead to sin and alive to God.
This is how we can gain salvation, why we are HIS saints. We are NOT sinners who have no right to enter in.
---duane on 7/2/10


I agree with Josef. Thank you Haz27.
---Linda on 7/2/10


Haz27 understanding is a beautiful thing to behold, and wisdom is truly His blessing. You are blessed. Keep sharing and caring, your labour is not in vain.
---josef on 7/1/10




jerry6593 Christians love God and love our neighbours as ourselves and these fulfill the 10 commandments anyway Rom13:10. And if you did fail to love and you did something that hurts your neighbour e.g adultery, being under grace you are not under a "SIN" death penalty ( as you are no longer under that law of sin and death). God chastises those He loves. So Christians are not going to profit from doing wrong things.
---Haz27 on 7/1/10


Mark_V Yes, the body is dead because of SIN. Christians were crucified with Christ so we are DEAD to the LAW Rom7:4. Dead means it is gone, it is not here anymore. Hence it is NO LONGER I THAT LIVES but Christ lives in me. This is the victory we have through Christ, we have overcome the world.

SIN is STILL transgression of the law that Christ fulfilled it on your behalf, but you seem not to accept this as you are still holding onto the old man who should have been crucified with Christ. Where there is no law there is NO TRANSGRESSION (i.e SIN).
---Haz27 on 7/1/10


jerry6593 the 10 commandments are only ONE part of the law. The law included death penalty to any who
transgressed it (i.e SIN) What the law says it says to those under it Rom3:19, and the WAGES of SIN is DEATH. Jesus paid that penalty on the cross for us.

Christians were crucified with Christ Gal2:20 and FREE from the law of sin and death Rom8:2. And where NO law is, there is NO TRANSGRESSION (i.e SIN) Rom4:15. Hence why 1John3:6-9 says that Christians DO NOT SIN. E.G if you stay in country A are you obliged to keep the laws of country Z and suffer its penalties if you break them? Christians are not under the law of sin and death so how can we be accused of transgressing them (i.e SIN)?
Continued next post....
---Haz27 on 7/1/10


Haz, this is Scripture:
"Because the carnal mind is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be"
Here we see what a lost person is in. He is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. Because his mind is enmity against God.
"So those who are in the flesh, (the lost who are at enmity) cannot please God"
The lost cannot please God.
"But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, (talking of those who are saved) if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness"
---MarkV. on 7/1/10


If sin is within you, that means you still have a sinful nature. And everyone that has a sinful nature still sins.
---MarkV. on 6/28/10

Mark let me see if I understand you correctly, you believe that when you are Born of God who is Holy, When you are Born Again, you will still have a sinful nature?
If this is what you believe I must correct you, God does not have a sinful nature and neither do those born of him.
---David on 7/1/10




Haz continue:
Now we know that if the Spirit of God is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of rightousness.
Now listen to how it ends about the body which is dead now:
"But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, (believers) He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you"
The body we now have is dead because of sin. and we will receive our new bodies later.
The Apostle says, the Spirit provides us with the energy and power to continually be killing our sins, a process not accomplished in this life. The Spirit uses the faithful obedience to the simple commands of Scripture
---Mark_V. on 7/1/10


Mark_V, to believe Christians sin is common, like tradition, therefore hard to see beyond that even if scriptures say otherwise.
If you "SIN" i.e transgress the law (1John3:4) then that means YOU ARE UNDER THE LAW for what the law says, its says to those under it Rom3:19. example: if you stay in country A are you obliged to keep laws of country Z with its penalties if you break them?

Rom6:14 Christians are NOT UNDER LAW. Rom4:15 Where there is no law there is NO TRANSGRESSION (i.e SIN). This is why 1John3:6-9 says Christians do NOT SIN.

Christians are under grace and they love God and love their neighbour as themselves (which covers the 10 commandments anyway). Under grace God forgives and chastises us for our good.
---Haz27 on 7/1/10


Haz, you say we are not under the law, but we are, what we are not under is the penalty of the Law. Just because you are saved does not mean that the law just disappears. For the believer the law now is in his heart, through Christ. He satisfied the law in our behalf. Sin is missing the mark, it is the mark of norm of God's law, which expresses His own righteouness and it the ultimate standard for our behavior. When we miss achieving this standard we sin, Christ is God, and He now lives in us. And will be with us forever. Because we could not keep all of the all and still cannot. If not for Christ, we would still be under the penalty of the Law. Our body is still dead in sin. But our spirit is alive to Christ.
---Mark_V. on 7/1/10


Mark_V Thank you for your concern but it is unfounded. I had asked you questions for you to consider what Christ has done for us. UNfortunately, you do not answer them. The truth is more important than who appears to win a debate.

Scriptures clearly state that: Christians are dead as we have been crucified with Christ. We no longer regard anyone according to the flesh. We are a new creature. We are no longer under the law, so HOW can we transgress it (i.e SIN)? God tells us these things to reveal who we are through Christ. We chose whether to accept it or not.

As duanne said, "are you a saint or a sinner?"
---Haz27 on 7/1/10


Donna66, you quoted 1John5:3 "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
The child of God DESIRES to keep His commandments"

What you said above is true, except what are His commandments?
1John3:22,23 "And whatsoever we ask , we receive of him, because we do those things that are pleasing in his sight. And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment"
---Haz27 on 7/1/10


Haz: Are you saying that you can simply "opt out" from keeping the Ten Commandment Law if you so choose. Isn't that what Satan did? If the Ten Commandments were optional, as you insinuate, then why did Jesus need to die on the cross? Did He indeed die to perpetuate sin?
---jerry6593 on 7/1/10


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Haz, I don't think you will understand the position you are in with Christ until you understand that your Spiritual birth was spiritual. And until you understand that, you will always think you are sinless in the flesh. And let me tell you, you are in walking in the flesh every day because you are not walking in the Spirit every single second of the day. You will till you die. And the flesh is dead in sin. When it dies, at the Day of our Lord, you will receive a new body that will be prepared for eternity, the body you now have is not and will never be prepared for eternity, it has to die. Because of sin.
---MarkV. on 6/30/10


jerry6593 see my earlier posts, God gave us several definitions of sin. But, 1John 3:4 is similar to what you think it is.

SIN = transgression of the law of sin and death. If you are STILL under the law and transgress it you have sinned AND the penalty of transgressing it is DEATH. Jesus took that death sacrifice for us on the cross. The law has been FULFILLED for us.

"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me FREE from the law of sin and death. Rom8:2
Now,..."where no law is, there is not transgression" Rom4:15 i.e where no law is, there is NO SIN.
If you don't accept what God says here then it would appear that you dont accept what Jesus did on the cross for us. I pray this is no the case.
---Haz27 on 6/30/10


Donna66. Why do you want to go to Greek for translation? God is almighty and has given us an English Bible for the English speakers.
If I read your preferred "translation" I see the "continues" "Keeps on" etc sinning as if you "continue", "keep on" under the law of sin and death. But that's why Jesus died on the cross, so that we are NO LONGER under that Law. We should not CONTINUE, KEEP ON staying, etc under the law of sin and death. If you choose to "CONTINUE" under the law then to transgress it (i.e SIN) has a death penalty.
Rom4:15 "...for where no law is, there is NO TRANSGRESSION (i.e NO SIN)
---Haz27 on 6/30/10


What is sin? Does it have relevance to "saved" Christians?

A topic like this should not require 75 posts. Just 1 or 2 maybe 3

John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because [he eateth] not of faith: for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin.

Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Question now properly answered.
---francis on 6/30/10


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David/Haz, 2:
Just think, when Jesus was talking to Necodemus, Necodemus didn't understand. He was also thinking of the physical body, it could not go back in the mothers womb? But Christ was talking about a Spiritual birth. Not a physical. When Christ comes in you, the body is still dead because of sin. It does not change because it has not been redeemed. Sin within me that Paul talked about was just that. He had the Spirit, wanted to do things that were good all the time, but he couldn't all the time, sin within him stopped him many times. Though he was been sanctified each day as he walked in the Spirit, some times he didn't. It is a battle that all Christians go through, we get better and better but never reach the goal in this life.
---MarkV. on 6/30/10


David/Haz, Born of the Spirit is? Spirit is something you do not see. It is not physical. It is a spiritual awakening. Your flesh has not been born again. It is the same flesh you have always had. And it will die. It will sin, and there is nothing you can do about it. Because the flesh has not been redeemed. "And if Christ is in you (spirit) the body is dead because of sin,(the body is dead because of sin ) but the Spirit is life because of righteousness" Rom. 8:10.
All those born again have the Spirit of life, but still have the body which is dead because of sin. Now listen to this:
"...even we ourselves groan within ourselves eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body" Rom. 8:23
---MarkV. on 6/30/10


Haz27-- I'm not a Greek student, but my sources tell me, The present tense in the Greek verb implied habit, continuity, unbroken sequence (Stott),

That's probably why the NIV translates these verbs with phrases such as keeps on sinning, continues to sin, and he cannot go on sinning.
Any Christian that takes a close look at his behavior knows he is not "sinless" (1Jo1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.)

1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
The child of God DESIRES to keep His commandments
BUT (1Jo 2:1b) if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
---Donna66 on 6/29/10


Haz27 & David - From reading your responses, it is clear that you both are NOT real Christians but fakes Leslie on 6/29/10///

So what you are saying Leslie (Leslie on 6/29/10) is that real Christians have no desire to sin, but they sin any way?

Leslie, If you have no desire to sin and yet you still sin, you sin against your will.
If you sin against your will, it is because you are a Slave to sin.
This is what Paul is telling us in the verse you quoted, Paul is telling us what it like to be a slave to sin.
"They will do what they do not want to do."
---David on 6/30/10


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If sin is within you, that means you still have a sinful nature. And everyone that has a sinful nature still sins.
---MarkV. on 6/28/10

Mark let me see if I understand you correctly, you believe that when you are Born of God who is Holy, When you are Born Again, you will still have a sinful nature?
If this is what you believe I must correct you, God does not have a sinful nature and neither do those born of him.
---David on 6/30/10


Mark_V You asked "did scripture change the definition of sin". What do you mean? Are you asking, does scripture challenge the common understanding of "sin"? Answer: Yes. Most never look to what God says sin is.
---Haz27 on 6/30/10


Haz27: "Mark_V your list of bad behaviours (or "sins" as you put it) are not biblical definitions of sin. They are traditionally thought of that way, but God's definitions are the only ones to go by."
---Haz27 on 6/28/10

Actually, MarkV's list of sins are indeed the one and only biblical definition of sin - the transgression of the Ten Commandment Law. You keep referring to the scripture (1John 3:4) that defines sin as that very transgression, and yet assert that it doesn't mean what it says because you are "not under the law."

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
---jerry6593 on 6/30/10


Mark_V you asked am I sanctified? Glorified? Yes, sanctified Heb10:14, will be glorified 2Tim4:8
Am I "sinless"? "do I still sin?"
Answer: 1John3:6-9 I do not sin. Although I WAS a sinner before I came to Christ.

A question for you.
Those who "sin" are transgressing the law 1John3:4. You claim your not under law but you fail to acknowledge "sin is transgression of the law". Why is that? To transgress the law (SIN) you are under the law. But, "...where no law is, there is no transgression" Rom4:15
Do you think a Christian (new creature who has Christ in them so body is DEAD) can still "sin" i.e still under the law and TRANSGRESS THAT LAW?
---Haz27 on 6/30/10


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Brother Jerry, sin is REBELLION against God plain and simple.
---larry on 6/29/10


Mark__V one of your earlier posts you spoke of your doctrine of "habitual sin" leading people to damnation. I guess this is your understanding based on your belief that 1John3 speaks of "practice sin".
Your "habitual sin" doctrine would have the likes of Leslie in damnation because she is continuously repenting for the same "sins" but never being able to truely repent (or turn away from them and stop it happening again).
I pray one day you will understand that Christians are set free from the law of sin and death and being born of God we do not sin.
---Haz27 on 6/29/10


Haz, I don't even know why you say that I am saying we are under the law or that I want anyone to be under the law. Only the lost are under the law and owe a debt. I do not owe anything, Christ has paid my debt. Now you have not answered my questions, simple yes or no will do, you don't even have to explain.
1. Are you saying you are sinless? Yes or no. That will tell me where you are at in learning about God's Word.
2. Do you still sin?
3. Have you been glorified?
4. Have you been completely sanctified?
There is always a lot of talk from people who claim sinlessness but they never admit to been sinless themselves, how about you.
---MarkV. on 6/29/10


Haz27 & David - From reading your responses, it is clear that you both are NOT real Christians but fakes, and also think you are perfect and without sin. It says (1 John 1:8-10) that if you claim to not sin, you do NOT belong to God 1st Haz27 - have you lied? Have you stolen (even a pen at work)? Have you lusted (which is adultery)? Have you hated (which is murder)? If you have done these things you have transgressed the law of God (a.k.a. sinned). In 1 John 2:3-6 it says that anyone who does not keep the commands of God (law) do NOT belong to God (NOT Christians). 2nd David - Paul says (as I have said repeatedly), "what I don't want to do, I do, and what I want to do, I don't" - Paul is saying that he sins daily here.
---Leslie on 6/29/10


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Alot of what I read on this blog is double talk with many, to defend the belief that Christ did not really come to put away sin.
So many people in unbelief, still obsessed with the sin issue. We either believe sin has been taken away(Cross) or we are still sinners who will never enter in. We can never be saved and also be a sinner.
It all comes down to believing in HIM and HIS work. The majority here do not believe in the work of the Cross and they will never overcome sin without it. They keep asking for knowledge but they just wont believe in the reason why HE came into the world.
Please wake up people. Who are you? Saint or sinner?
---duane on 6/29/10


Leslie & Mark_V I disaggree with your views. God gives us definitions so why do you don't you use them?
1John3:4 (sin is trangression of the law) I assume is close to your definition of "sin". So based on God's definition you are saying that whenever Christians do something wrong they are transgressors of the law. Why would you say that when Jesus died for us on the cross and fullfilled the law for us? Why do you try to put Christians back under the law when God says we are set free from it Rom8:2? 1John3:6-9 tells us that Christians do not sin. Christians are "born of God" hence we do not sin. God says this so we should not change it.
---Haz27 on 6/29/10


What that scripture really says in 1 John talks about a desire to sin - if you are saved you no longer should have a desire to sin, but hate sin like God does.---Leslie on 6/29/10////

Leslie, I have no desire to drink Alcohol, I hate Alcohol, so I don't drink Alcohol.
If you are saved and have no desire to sin, and hate to sin, why do you sin?

Also, where did Paul say that he sinned Daily?
---David on 6/29/10


Haz, Romans 6, does speak of the old man been dead. Although the "old man" is dead, which means our old self died with Christ, and the life we now enjoy is a new divinely given life that is the life of Christ Himself (Gal. 2:20). We have been removed from the unregenerate self's presence and control, so we should not follow the remaining memories of its old sinful ways, as if we were still under its evil influence (Eph. 4:20-24, Gal. 5:24, Col. 3:9,10). Although the old self is dead, sin retains a foothold in our temporal flesh or our unregenerate humanness, with its corrupt desires (7:14-24. The believer does not have two competing natures, the old and the new, but one new nature that is still incarcerated in unredeemed flesh (v.12).
---MarkV. on 6/29/10


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David & Haz27 - 1st David, are you saying that Paul was not a Christian, because Paul sinned daily - He even said so? 2nd Haz27, you misquote scripture. What that scripture really says in 1 John talks about a desire to sin - if you are saved you no longer should have a desire to sin, but hate sin like God does. This is NOT saying you will never sin again if you are a Christian. Haz27 how many times today have you done something against God? If you sinned today, according to your logic, you are NOT saved. 1 John 1:8-10 is for ALL people saved or unsaved.
---Leslie on 6/29/10


Haz, do you say you are sinless? You can give all the Scriptures you want but the fact is, do you still sin? Have you been glorified already? Are as stated in Scripture, "have you arrived?" or have you reached the goal? Most who speak of believers not able to sin anymore, never answer the questions. Did Scripture changed the definition of sin? Is it called something else now?
Hey listen Haz, we are not slaves to sin anymore. When John was talking in 1 John, he was talking about practicing sin or practicing the Truth.
"If we say we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the Truth. " The passages are not talking about being sinless, but about what we practice.
---MarkV. on 6/29/10


Haz, you ask why, when you said,
"it. Why would you think that 1John1 is talking about false teachers who deny the existence of sin?" Because it is in the context of the epistle. John was combating the heresies most likely of the begining of "Gnosticism" which was in its early stages during the latter third of the first century. 1 John 4:1 after explaining to the believers about sin, he warns the believers to not believe every spirit, but to test the spirits whether they are of God, because many false prophets had gone out into the world. He said, "An this is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world."
---MarkV. on 6/29/10


Mark_V I can see what you are saying but do not aggree with it. Why would you think that 1John1 is talking about false teachers who deny the existence of sin?
1John1 if read from the beginning speaks of declaring eternal life to those in darkness so that they too can have fellowship as believers.
Had you considered that the doctrine that Christians can sin has been passed on from mainstream churches throughout the generations and many in church today have never searched the scriptures to find out what "sin" means and whether it is relevant to Christians. They just accept it in the context that is has always been traditionally used and therefore misunderstanding scripture.
---Haz27 on 6/29/10


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Rom6 speaks of the "old man" being DEAD.
"How shall we that are DEAD TO SIN, live any longer in it?"
"For he that is DEAD IS FREED FROM SIN".
The doctrine that Christians are somehow lingering in some half-way state of the old man and new man is not supported by scripture.
"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away, behold all things are become new" 2Cor 5:17.
If your "old man" is still alive and not "dead" yet that is great reason for concern as the scriptures above reveal.
---Haz27 on 6/29/10


Haz, 1 John 3:9 is correct. What is born of God does not sin, It is the spirit that is born of God. That is what rebirth is. Now that we are born of God our spirit cannot sin, but there is sin within us. That is why 1 John 1:8-10 says what it does. The Truth in us Christ, does not sin. If we have the Truth we know we sin. So the passage says, "if we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the Truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, (because we have the Truth) He is faithful and just to forgive us our sin, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
John was dealing with false teachers who denied the existence of a sin nature in their lives. If someone never admits to been a sinner, salvation cannot result.
---MarkV. on 6/29/10


And if the Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, then He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal body by His Spirit that dwelleth within you.

Sin may dwell in my flesh, but the very Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead dwells in my spirit and quickens my mortal body. He is greater, after all.
---Linda on 6/29/10


Sin is disobedience. Christians obey.
---Eloy on 6/29/10


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Linda, you finally got that right. It is sin within you. The very same problem that Paul had. He wanted to do good, He knew what was good, but the good he wanted to do, he could not do it, sin within him was still a problem. Lets be on the same page. I will support your views if you are on the same page.
If sin is within you, that means you still have a sinful nature. And everyone that has a sinful nature still sins. The flesh has not been redeemed, only the spirit has been brought to life, it was a spiritual awakening at rebirth.
---MarkV. on 6/28/10


Leslie, you quote 1John1:8 to say that we are a liar if we say that we do not sin. As 1John3:6-9 says that Christians do not sin are you saying that this scripture is a lie?

1John1 should be read from the beginning. It is declaring life to those in darkness, non-believers who are under sin. It is those in darkness who are the liars.
---Haz27 on 6/28/10


Leslie: to repent is to be sorry and TURN AWAY from your offence or wrong doing. If your repenting daily for the same offences then it seems your not really repenting. But God loves us and forgives us.
But the big issue is for people to repent from "dead works", that separated us from God. Jesus fulfilled the law on our behalf and Christians are now under grace. Here Christians have truely repented.
---Haz27 on 6/28/10


Mark_V your list of bad behaviours (or "sins" as you put it) are not biblical definitions of sin. They are traditionally thought of that way, but God's definitions are the only ones to go by.
---Haz27 on 6/28/10


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Linda,
Very true...You must be born again of the Spirit. If you are born of God, you cannot sin. The carnal man says he sins, the Spiritual man cannot sin.
The only true Gospel says Christ took away sin so we could have life and see God but so many refuse to believe it. The many are still in there sins and still trying to overcome their sins, never believing in the work of the Cross.
God is Spirit,and we must worship HIM in Spirit.
---duane on 6/28/10


sin is disobidience to the word and will of God
---tom2 on 6/28/10


alan8566_of_uk You could call the "wrong things" Christians do "wrong things" if you want . We don't need a specific label for it. But to call it "sin" is implying that such a person is still under the law Jesus fulfilled on our behalf as "sin is trangression of the law" 1John3:4. God put this definiition in the Bible for good reason, so it's best we keep to it.
---Haz27 on 6/28/10


1. That when you sin, and all of us sin, it is not called sin anymore.
2. When you hate someone, it is really not sin.
3. If you lust after someone, it is not sin
4. When you lie, it is not sin etc.
In fact you can do anything you want and it is not sin. You are free to sin because it is not sin to you.
Sorry David, but you are wrong. Our salvation was spiritual, not physical. We had a spiritual awakening, not a phyiscial one.
---Mark_V. on 6/28/10

Where did I say any of this?
I believe you have me confused with HAZ27
---David on 6/28/10


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1st in 1 John 1:8 says that if you (as a Christian) say you do not sin, then you are a liar and the truth (Jesus) is NOT in you - in other words you are NOT truly saved if you claim not to sin as a Christian. ---Leslie on 6/28/10

Leslie who are those who overcome the Evil one in 1John 2:13?
how can someone say they have overcome the Evil one when they still sin?
1John 3:9-10 says that those born of God do not sin.
What does "DO Not" mean to you?
---David on 6/28/10


When a believer sins, it is "no longer I who sins, but sin that dwells in me (in my flesh)". That is why if we walk in the Spirit, we do not fulfill the lusts if the flesh. No sin in our spirit man.
---Linda on 6/28/10


For those that say that Christians can NOT sin, you are AGAINST the Bible and are saying that Paul was never really saved. 1st in 1 John 1:8 says that if you (as a Christian) say you do not sin, then you are a liar and the truth (Jesus) is NOT in you - in other words you are NOT truly saved if you claim not to sin as a Christian. 2nd Paul (who was a Christian, and wrote the majority of the N.T.) said "the things I want to do, I don't do, and the things I don't want to do, I do." - this says that Paul (who was a Christian) sinned. This also says that ALL Christians sin on a DAILY basis, and need to repent DAILY. Otherwise, Paul was not a true Christian, but still lost.
---Leslie on 6/28/10


David, you are confused about the gospels. Jesus took away our sins at the Cross. Paid the penalty we owed God for our rebellion, because we could not keep all the law. Something we could not do, the reason the law cannot save anyone.
Here is what you and others are suggesting:
1. That when you sin, and all of us sin, it is not called sin anymore.
2. When you hate someone, it is really not sin.
3. If you lust after someone, it is not sin
4. When you lie, it is not sin etc.
In fact you can do anything you want and it is not sin. You are free to sin because it is not sin to you.
Sorry David, but you are wrong. Our salvation was spiritual, not physical. We had a spiritual awakening, not a phyiscial one.
---Mark_V. on 6/28/10


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David 2:
Romans 14:23 is not talking about a person being sinless. The subject there is food. Paul said because of Jesus nothing was unclean. But many still believed in foods unclean, In the context, v. 14 Paul told them not to force anyone to eat whose conscience told them it was unclean. v. 22 "What he approves" refers to, when a strong believer maintains a healthy conscience because he does not give a weak believer a cause to stumble. V, 23, "Who doubts is condemned" When the weak brother violates his conscience he sins. "For whatever is not of faith is sin?" Those are the thoughts and actions that our conscience condemns.
---Mark_V. on 6/28/10


Haz27 --The verses you quote are evidence that Christ's work on our behalf is complete! He came to save us from sin and He declared from the cross, "it is finished".

When The Holy Spirit comes to live within us, we no longer DESIRE to sin....but we are not INCAPABLE of sin. If we were perfected, we would not go through he learning process of maturing in Christ. ( And would we be truly righteous, if we had no choice to be otherwise?) We still live in a fallen world and a deteriorating body.

1Jo 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
---Donna66 on 6/27/10


Haz27 So when Christians do wrong things, what do we call it?
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/28/10


Mark_V When we use God's definitions of sin we see Christians DO NOT SIN.
Rom14:23 Christians live by faith, hence NO SIN
John5:17 Christians are righteous through Christ, hence NO SIN
1John3:4 Christians are no longer under the law Jesus fulfilled, hence NO SIN
John16:9 Christians believe on lord Jesus Christ, hence NO SIN
Mark3:29 Christians do not blaspheme Holy Ghost, hence NO SIN
As you noted in another post, "SIN" is a label, but it's a label that is not applicable to Christians as the above reveals.
---Haz27 on 6/27/10


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I'm happy everyone here with the exception of a few, have been glorified already. Can someone help me here? ---Mark_V. on 6/27/10 ///

Mark it is as you say with the exception of a few, and there are Many, like you, who do not believe Jesus can Take Away sin.(Hebrews 10:4)
"Many are called but Few are chosen"

What do you think an overcomer is?
---David on 6/27/10


1 John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love, and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

How is He?
---Linda on 6/27/10


1 John 3:4, sin is ...

"saved" Christians have been deceived by their preachers!
Jeremiah 50:6
Matthew 24:5, "For many will come in my name (preachers coming in Jesus' name), saying I am the Christ (saying Jesus is the Christ), and they will lead many astray!

And because we believed the preachers, God's reaction in the verses below.

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12

2 Corinthians 4:14-15

Isaiah 44:18 , 19:14 , 25:7

2 Corinthians 4:3
---Jay on 6/27/10


This must be the blog for all who are sinless. I'm happy everyone here with the exception of a few, have been glorified already. What I cannot understand is why are you guys still here? Is it possible to be sinless and still here? Just maybe, because you are a Christian when you sin, it is not call sin anymore. It's called something else. Can someone help me here? I'm trying to learn.
---Mark_V. on 6/27/10


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No doubt the reason why many in churches follow the error that Christians can sin is because often those teaching in churches are not teachers from God.
Jesus Christ is our one true shepherd.
---Haz27 on 6/27/10

Sadly, "the Many" follow these Man-made doctrines and have made these Men their example and not Jesus, the one God sent to be our example.

We are told to walk as Jesus walked, Jesus was without sin.
How can we walk as Jesus walked unless we are born again, Born again as defined in (1John 3:9) KJV and not as defined by these false doctrines?
---David on 6/27/10


"What is sin?"
Jerry, sin is missing the mark of the Father's high calling for man, in Christ.
How does man hit that mark?
By yielding to the Father's prompting to both acknowledge and confess Jesus as Lord and Savior, and to rely on, trust in, adhere to, and depend upon Him, in life, for life.
"Does it [sin] have relevance to "saved" Christians?"
One is either Saved, or sinner, never both. For the Saved, as one who is joined with, and abides in Jesus, through Christ, there is no sin. (I John 3:5,6)
---Josef on 6/27/10


David, I read one of your earlier posts where you said that God would "not put a sinner as a teacher". No doubt the reason why many in churches follow the error that Christians can sin is because often those teaching in churches are not teachers from God.
Jesus Christ is our one true shepherd.
---Haz27 on 6/27/10


NO, it has no relevance to the "Saved" Christian, because according to our Lord those who are "saved" do not sin.

(John 8:34-35) Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever.

According to Jesus Christ, those who sin are Slaves to sin.
According to the Truth, Who belongs to the Family forever, who will live eternally in the Family of God, is it the Son or the Slave?
If the slave is one who sins, is the one who sins Saved?
To be a Son of God, one must also be born of God.
According to (1John 3:9) those born of God do not sin, and this confirms that is what Jesus taught in (John 8:34-35).
---David on 6/26/10


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Haz is correct...
Christs purpose on earth was to take sin away. We are now dead to sin and alive to God. We are NOT alive to sin and therefore dead to God.
HIS work is finished.
---duane on 6/25/10


Darlene_1 Rom14:23 & John5:17 are good descriptions of sin as you say.

When we look at God's definitions we see Christians DO NOT SIN.
Rom14:23 Christians live by faith, hence NO SIN
John5:17 Christians are righteous through Christ, hence NO SIN
1John3:4 Christians are no longer under the law Jesus fulfilled, hence NO SIN
John16:9 Christians believe on lord Jesus Christ, hence NO SIN
Mark3:29 Christians do not blaspheme Holy Ghost, hence NO SIN
---Haz27 on 6/25/10


BCV?

Romans 3:25
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God,

abnegation - denial, renouncement of or to give up something
Synonyms: abandonment, abstinence, eschewal, forbearance, giving up, nixing, refusal, rejection, relinquishment, renunciation, sacrifice, self-denial, stonewall, surrender, temperance

You also said that trinity does not have to be in the scriptures to be a valid concept. After all, who said that the word 'bible' is not in the bible?

Read Hebrews. It explains the concept of blood sacrifices very well.
---aka.joseph on 6/25/10


1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

It affect everyone.
I am not sure what you mean by saved christians. Salvation is a one time event occuring when Jesus returns
Romans 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now [it is] high time to awake out of sleep: for now [is] our salvation nearer than when we believed.

John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
---francis on 6/25/10


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Sin = wrongdoing (1 John 5:17), lawlessness (breaking the 10 Commandments and the Bible) (1 John 3:4), lack of faith (Romans 14:23), not doing what is good (James 4:17). All of this is VERY relevant to "saved" Christians -because even Christians sin on a DAILY basis, and MUST repent DAILY. Look at Paul, he said "what I want to do, I don't do, and what I don't want to do, I can't stop doing". This says that Christians sin daily.
---Leslie on 6/25/10


Romans 14 is a good Chapter to read about faith especially Romans 14:23(which shows what is sin) And he that doubts is damned if he eats,because he eats not in faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. 1 John 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin:and there is a sin not unto death.
---Darlene_1 on 6/25/10


1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.
James 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

James 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
---francis on 6/25/10


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