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God Allows Free Will

What does the Sovereignty of God mean? As Sovereign, does He allow Free Will?

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To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

Brethren, This is a re-post that was well shared & worth repeating again for those who the Truth may seem blury b/c they're slow to Hear & quick to speak.

We have the ability to choose. God wants us to choose Him. He does not want robots programmed to say 'I love you'.

That being said, He also knows who has & will choose Him... and when someone will make the choice toward Him : Being beyond time and eternal, He sees who is written in the Book of Life.

Thinking only of free will is horizontal thinking, earthly.
(Isaiah 55:9)
Thinking of God's sovereignty in dealing with His creation is vertical thinking, Heavenly. --Micha9344 on 6/25/10
---Shawn.M.T on 7/8/10


To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

Brethren, You can please some of the people all the time and all the people some of the time, but you'll never please all the people all the time... AND unlike others I'm not here to please or cater to anyone, but to only share God's Word!!!

-- Miche :

Sister, You're not asking me these questions to learn or share about our Lord, you're indulging in your worldly speculation as to WHO'S on WHOSE side.... Well, I'm on the Lord's side and shall not be pulled into your arguments with others which has caused you to 'Fall Through The Thin Ice' you walk-on.

Miche, Renew your mind to the vertical thinking of our Heavenly Father, and away from the horizontal thinking of the world.
---Shawn.M.T on 7/8/10


-- Miche :

God draws by the preaching of the truth of his word...God does NOT make the person believe--Miche

Sister, God draws by whatever means His Pleasure sees fit, and it's not always by the Truth.

The Lord used a lying spirit to draw & make Ahab believe what God wanted him to believe, in 1 Kings 22:22, so Ahab would go to and fall/die at the battle of Ramothgilead.

So, I didn't forget to add anything. It's unfortunate that the exact words you wished to be heard by others was not shared with you so that what you wanted to hear would appear, but that doesn't make it none the less the fullness of the TRUTH!!!!
---Shawn.M.T. on 7/8/10


"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL MEN unto myself, this He spake signifying the death he would die."
---Linda on 7/8/10


By the way Shawn, do you believe the Spirit of God can be resisted?
In other words, irresistable Grace.

If so, where is that in the Bible?
Where does God say we can't resist HIM?

Do you believe, Shawn, that you must be born again before you believe God?

If so, where does the Bible say that?

By the way, you are treading on very thin ice, Shawn. It is sad that you will let one weaker in Christ stop you from telling HIM the truth. Instead, you cater to it, AGAIN.
---miche3754 on 7/8/10




Miche3754, many forget to read John 12 I believe where JESUS is saying If I be lifted up, I WILL draw all men unto me. Here Jesus is doing the DRAWING,

WE are responsible to lift up Christ Crucified. This is the Gospel Paul preached. What did Paul say? God forbid that I would pereach anything BUT Christ Crucified. Paul understood what it meant!

Those before who the Father gave to Jesus was before He went to the Cross, and they were the 12 desciples/apostles given Jesus while He was on earth.
---kathr4453 on 7/8/10


Jesus said that No man can come to Christ, except the Father which hath sent Christ draw them. Every man therefore that hath Heard, and Learned of the Father, comes unto Christ : and Christ will raise them up at the Last Day. John 6:44-45
---Shawn.M.T. on 7/7/10

I apreciate your answer but you forgot to Add that God draws by the preaching of the truth of his word.(Faith comes from hearing, Shawn)
And God does NOT make the person believe Shawn.(I set before you life and death...CHOOSE)
Please when you answer my questions, please answer to the fullest so that the TRUTH is not blured to those who may be reading these blogs.
---miche3754 on 7/8/10


Kathr, you speak of one promise and that promise was made to all who believed already, they were now going to be endwelled by the Holy Spirit. The apostles had waited until the Day of Pentacost but since then all believers are baptized with the Holy Spirit at Salvation (1 Cor. 12:13, Romans, 8:9, 1 Cor. 6:19,20, Titus 3:5,6). This promise was from Jesus to the apostles. That is not the Promise to the descendants of Isaac. The same holds true with Esau and Jacob, both born of the same mother yet it is written, "Jacob have I loved, and Esau have I hated" One became gracious the other profine. The message of the gospel was not for everyone, Gentiles were not included until after the coming of Christ.
---Mark_V. on 7/8/10


Kathr, how can you say what you say about me? What makes you say lies against me? You who want to speak the truth in one sentence speak lies by making up things about me and display them so that others can believe what you said. I never do that to you. I receive and answer you as kindly as I can. You have no right to slander me,
"MarkV is a neo-calvinist. I'm not calling names. He announced this and is proud of it."
When have I ever said such things? Never. It is all a lie again and again your resort to such lies. I am a reformer, I have never said I was a neo-calvinist. And never said I was proud of it. When you cannot answer the Truth of Scripture you go back to your calvinist assults. You ruin your own witness.
---Mark_V. on 7/8/10


//The promise is not the Holy Spirit...MarkV.//

The Scripture bears witness against you:

Acts 1:4 "....but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me."


Acts 2:33 "Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear."

Acts 2:38,39 "...and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you...."

Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

I think I will believe the Bible.
---Linda on 7/7/10




-- Miche :

Does God say a person can only believe if GOD chooses to let that person believe?---miche

Sister, I suppose your question is trying to make a point in regards to the will to choose, so I direct you to my re-post on 6/26/10

Scriptures doesn't use the exact words or phrasing you're wanting to hear, but you or anyone else who were baptized by Faith, were taught & came to believe in God by God!!!

Jesus said that No man can come to Christ, except the Father which hath sent Christ draw them. Every man therefore that hath Heard, and Learned of the Father, comes unto Christ : and Christ will raise them up at the Last Day. John 6:44-45
---Shawn.M.T. on 7/7/10


If there is Election, and we know there is, there is reprobation. Those that are not of the elect. Those are theologian terms use to describe the none elect. You said,
"WE are children of Promise..."
That very True. Believers only are children of promise. you say
"the Promise is the Holy Spirit."
The promise is not the Holy Spirit, the promise is salvation. The Holy Spirit comes to anyone it wants to come to. It is not moved by anything the creature does or by any merits, it comes by the Grace of God, and not to everyone, for we know many die in their sins in whom the Spirit never came. Old Testament saints were mostly descendants of Israel. All other nations were exempt from hearing the gospel.
---Mark_V. on 7/7/10


LindaS, those were wonderful posts. I agree. As GROW more and more in the Grace and KNOWLEDGE of HIM, growing up into Christ, a MATURE Christian.

If you took a baby Christian who never had one commentary to read..would NEVER in a million years come up with Calvinism.

ISM's cause schisms, and Movements will pass, but the WORD of the Lord endures FOREVER, and changes not....not even it's meanings.

ALL mean ALL

Whoso ever means who so ever. If one took all scripture that said whosoever..it means everyone.

If the Whosoever's are the elect then, then the whosoever's takes the mark of the beast...well there ya go..the so called Calvin elect who changed the meaning must take that mark!
---kathr4453 on 7/7/10


I agree with Linda's last post. As we approach the end of time as we know it more and more "layers of understanding" will be revealed by the Holy Spirit to those who look to the word.
---mima on 7/7/10


Kathr, I believe in revelation of the Word. I believe there are layers in the written Word that are just waiting on discovery through the light of the Holy Ghost. Eph.1:17-23. This is not NEW knowledge. It has been there waiting, like a treasure box filled with treasure. With that said, I do not believe this revelation makes us closer to God nor does it make us some elite category of believers. It is there for all. It also DOES NOT make us more saved and is not, in itself, the modus operandi of our salvation. If anything it humbles us to be conformed more to His image as it's purpose is the renewing of the mind.
---LindaS on 7/7/10


Without the revelation of the Word, we would not understand what "the old man was crucified with Him" and "the new man is seated together with Him" means to us. You have revelation of that Kathr, so you understand what I am talking about. It is real to you. Gnosticism, on the other hand, treats its knowledge as though it is the only truth and calls those who do not receive it liars, as though simple faith were not enough, that this secret knowledge is the only thing that makes one right with God. Paul tells us this mystery has been revealed. There is no secret. The Holy Ghost is available to show us Christ in the Scriptures and to make His work of redemption so real to us that doubt is no longer an issue.
---Linda on 7/7/10


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Whether your theology is right or wrong, your attitude borders on gnostisicm. LindaS


LindaS, so glad you are here! I was especially taken with this comment. I have said this many times. Gnosticism is coming through more and more with MarkV's teaching. MarkV is a neo-calvinist. I'm not calling names. He announced this and is proud of it. Charles Spurgeon( a Calvinist) is considered a reprobate to the Neo Calvinists. They believe they have some special insight no one else has, even apart from scripture. They are a secret society, like all CULTS.



---kathr4453 on 7/7/10


Kathr and Laura, that was excellent.
---LindaS on 7/7/10


There is salvation OT by/through FAITH. and NT those saved BY GRACE through faith. No one in the OT was saved by GRACE through faith. They were saved BY Faith or through FAITH.

Grace is CHRIST IN YOU...and OT saints were not saved by Christ being in them.

Those who have fallen from GRACE in Galatians fell from Christ being FORMED in them...going back now under the Law as a way of life.

GRACE is teh CROSS ONLY, as Paul states CRUCIFIED with Christ IS GRACE Galatians 2:20-21!!!!!
---kathr4453 on 7/7/10


Hebrews 11:13
These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

There is salvation OT by/through FAITH. and NT those saved BY GRACE through faith. No one in the OT was saved by GRACE through faith. They were saved BY Faith or through FAITH.

Grace is CHRIST IN YOU...and OT saints were not saved by Christ being in them.

Those who have fallen from GRACE in Galatians fell from Christ being FORMED in them...going back now under the Law as a way of life.

GRACE is the CROSS ONLY, as Paul states CRUCIFIED with Christ IS GRACE Galatians 2:20-21!!!!!
---kathr4453 on 7/7/10


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MarkV, if you really believed that the grace of God cannot be resisted you wouldn't be here trying so hard to convince us all that what you believe is truth. If the Holy Ghost taught it to you, then we would not be able to resist His grace in bringing it to us also. The influence would be too great and you wouldn't have to work so hard. You accuse me of "controlling God", yet you don't believe the Holy Ghost is able to do the work He came to do and that you must take His place to convince. I am sorry, but if you were thoroughly convinced of your theology, you wouldn't have a debate on your hands.
---Linda on 7/7/10


Whether your theology is right or wrong, your attitude borders on gnostisicm. You believe your knowledge of doctrine is the only truth and, if not believed because you said it, makes us liars. Instead of being satisfied with simple faith, you can only be satisfied when everybody approves what you believe. We study to show OURSELVES approved, not to show everyone else disapproved. Either the Holy Ghost, who administers the grace of God, is able to "cause" us all to believe as you do or you don't really believe the grace of God has the influence you claim it has. Which is it?
---LindaS on 7/7/10


God promised Abraham and Sarah a child of their own. Please know Isaac was not conceived the way Jesus was. Isaac is still the flesh and blood of Abraham and Sarah.

Romans 9 give another example. Both Jacob and Esau were (twins) of the same father and mother. Yet God Chose Jacob over Esau. What was Jacob chosen for? Not salvation. Chosen for service. Chosen to bring the Messiah.

Even Esau's descendants can be saved. The Gentiles would be anyone who is not Israel. That would include American Indians, Asians, Blacks, all races, even Arabs.

Galatians 3:14
That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
---Laura on 7/7/10


Oh my goodness MarkV, are you suggesting anyone of Islamic faith cannot be saved? Don't you understand what Sarah and Hagar mean.

WE are children of Promise...the Promise is the Holy Spirit. ANYONE can receive the Spirit of Christ and become JUST LIKE THAT a child of Promise, and be considered Abraham's SPIRITUAL SEED!!!

The Holy Spirit is given to those who OBEY!!!ACTS!!! No where is it said the Holy Spirit is given to the Elect ONLY!!!

I looked up DOCTRINE..every verse that has it...and NO WHERE is there the doctrine of reprobate!!!....

Calvin or whoever had to make that up to make all his lies Stick to the unregenerate self taught person!
---kathr4453 on 7/7/10


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Kathr, you said,
MarkV God did not choose Israel in the OT to SAVE. NO ONE Was saved under the LAW"
If you check my answer I said "save in the future". The promise was only for the descendants of the free women, Sarah, not for the descendants of Hagar.
And there were many old testament saints who were saved by the Grace of God. No one is saved under the Law because the law cannot save.
Ismael was the child of Hagar, was the ofspring of Abraham upon ordinary conditions. He was born after the flesh. Isaac the son of Sarah was given to his parents by the Lord. He was born according to the promise through faith.
---Mark_V. on 7/7/10


MarkV, you just cherry pick scripture one verse here and there to prove Calvins THEORY. All cults will do this. Your humetrics SP, has spoiled you through philosophy and VEIN DECEIT. Please read ALL a chapter or book to see what GOD is saying to WHO and WHEN concerning WHAT!

You stated before you took CLASSES on Humetrics to teach you the Bible. That was HUMAN understanding. We don't NEED that, we need the Holy Spirit ONLY to teach us and show us truth.

Anyone even the RCC, Mormons, etc can cherry pick anything here and there to prove their cultism doctrine.

MarkV you are hopeless. You're already ruined through brainwashing. You've gone the way of CAIN!!!!
---kathr4453 on 7/7/10


To all, Were we formed by the power that fulfills the promise? How were you converted? Was it by yourself, by the persuasion of men, by carnal excitement, or was it by the operation of the Spirit of God? Those who profess to have been born again. Where did that new birth come from? Did it come from God in consequence of His eternal purpose and promise, or did it come out of yourself? Was it your old nature trying to do better, and working itself up to its best form? If so, you are Ishmael. Or was it that you, being spiritually dead and having no strength whatever to rise out of your lost condition, were visited by the Spirit of God? Did God put forth His divine energy and cause life from heaven to enter into you? Then you are Isaac.
---Mark_V. on 7/7/10


What about those who are said to be willfully disobedient?

There is God's Will and our will. Only those who are Christians can even come close to doing God's will.
---Laura on 7/7/10


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2: "The Lord has made all things for Himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil" (Prov.16:4). It expressly declares that the Lord made the wicked for the Day of Evil: That was His design in giving them being.
The doctrine of reprobation does not mean that God purposed "to take innocent creatures" make them wicked, and then damn them. Scriptures says, "God hath made man upright, but they have sought out many inventions" (Eccl. 7:29). God does not created sinful creatures, in order to destroy them, for God is not to be charged with the sin of His creatures. The responsibility and criminality is man's.
God's decree of reprobation contemplated Adam's race as fallen, sinful, corrupt, guilty.
---Mark_V. on 7/7/10


miche, the Mystery doesn't say...to those I will let believe in me. To believe IN, means to BELIEVE...do you believe God or don't you?

God didn't keep Cain from believing IN HIM. God asked Cain to BELIEVE HIM...that the ONLY thing acceptable to God was SACRIFICE, not human effort, like Cain presenting Him with his WORKS .. Wheat....out of Cain's sweat.

Salvation is NO MYSTERY....that Jews and Gentiles would be ONE IN CHRIST, no longer a Jew of Gentile but a NEW CREATURE, UNHEARD OF in the OT, was hidden in the OT. The Mystery is CHRIST IN YOU, becoming begotten SONS through Jesus Christ!!! Clearly stated in Colossians 1:24-27!!! You have to RECEIVE Him for Him to Be in you, John 1.
---kathr4453 on 7/7/10


Kath and Trav,
Wonderful truth of the mystery NOT being a mystery anymore. That gets a big amen from me!

I would still like an answer to my question, if you guys don't mind.
Especially since it has everything to do with God being sovereign.

Since God is sovereign, Does God say a person can only believe in God if GOD chooses to let that person believe in him?
Please provide scripture to back up your responses.(in context and more than one please)
---miche3754 on 7/7/10


The problem many have is not that God chooses some, but that the others didn't get a fair deal. --- How soon they forget what God did in the Old Testament. He chose the nation of Israel, over all the others.
---Mark_V. on 7/7/10

MarkV God did not choose Israel in the OT to SAVE. NO ONE Was saved under the LAW. ONLY ISRAEL WAS UNDER LAW. He chose them for SERVICE....and all things were done under LAW as a pattern of Heaven...all those things UNDER LAW pointed to Jesus Christ.

Until you grasp THAT truth...you will always be off track!!!

ABEL obeyed God. Cain was given a 2nd chance to OBEY..His free will chose not to!!!!

God shows right from the very beginning FREE WILL through Cain and Abel!!!
---kathr4453 on 7/7/10


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what markV fails to understand is PAuls words in Romans 16....
instead, it refers to something hidden in former times but now made known..---Mark_V. on 7/6/10

Stated truly. Rather than believe he would change the New Covenant to something of his own, instead of accepting GOD plan. A mystery still to him. Even though it's stated. He talks when he should listen.

Hebrews 8:8
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Romans 9:4
Who are Israelites, to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises,
---Trav on 7/7/10


The problem many have is not that God chooses some, but that the others didn't get a fair deal. They say, that the God of the Bible would never do that. That He is love, and wanted to save everyone. How soon they forget what God did in the Old Testament. He chose the nation of Israel, over all the others. Was that fair? What happened to the lives of those others? They died in their sin. Many were slaughtered. Women and children. For what purpose? For the survival of Israel. One for life in the future, the others for death.
"But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed," speak evil of the things that they understand not: and shall utterly perish in their own corruption" (2 Peter 2:12).
---Mark_V. on 7/7/10


Romans 16: 25Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

26But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

To be made KNOWN to ALL NATIONS..it does not say THE ELECT!

Ephesians 6:19

19And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, TO MAKE KNOWN THE MYSTERY OF THE GOSPEL,

FAITH comes by HEARING....
---kathr4453 on 7/7/10


2: "The Lord has made all things for Himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil" (Prov.16:4). It expressly declares that the Lord made the wicked for the Day of Evil: That was His design in giving them being.
The doctrine of reprobation does not mean that God purposed "to take innocent creatures" make them wicked, and then damn them. Scriptures says, "God hath made man upright, but they have sought out many inventions" (Eccl. 7:29). God does not created sinful creatures, in order to destroy them, for God is not to be charged with the sin of His creatures. The responsibility and criminality is man's.
God's decree of reprobation contemplated Adam's race as fallen, sinful, corrupt, guilty.
---Mark_V. on 7/7/10


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"what markV fails to understand is PAuls words in Romans 16....to preach the Gospel according to the Mystery for te OBEDIENCE of faith to ALL."
I am sorry to say, that I cannot find that comment anywhere in Romans.
The main mystery in the New Testament does not have it modern connotation, instead, it refers to something hidden in former times but now made known (1 Cor. 4:1, Eph. 5:2, 6:19, Col. 1:25,26, 2 Thess. 7,8, 1 Tim. 3:9,16). The New Testament most common mystery is that God would provide salvation for Gentiles as well as Jews from every nation,(Eph. 3:3-9).
Paul in Eph. said that by revelation the mystery was made known to him, a mystery that in other ages was not made known to the sons of men.
---Mark_V. on 7/6/10


Hi miche, what markV fails to understand is PAuls words in Romans 16....to preach the Gospel according to the Mystery for te OBEDIENCE of faith to ALL.

The MYSTERY is Christ in you, to both Jew and Gentile on the SAME footing becoming one New Man...no longer Jew or Gentile. The reason this is a mystery, is in the OT there was NEVER any indication a Gentile and Jew would be on the same playing field. in the OT Jews/Israel were the ONLY people, and a Gentile had to JOIN Israel to be blessed.

That Gentiles would be saved was no mystery, as it was told to Abraham ALL families would be blessed.


TODAY everyone can hear the Gospel and be saved THROUGH CHRIST ALONE....not become a prostylite of Israel.
---kathr4453 on 7/6/10


To anyone,

Since God is sovereign, Does God say a person can only believe in God if GOD chooses to let that person believe in him?

If yes, can scripture provided that says this?
(in context and more than one please)


Also, Kath, sis it is good to see you still perserviering and telling the TRUTH of God's word.
---miche3754 on 7/6/10


Part 2:
He not only chose us in Him before the foundation of the world verse 4, but He chose us to be holy and without blame before Him in love. He also" predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself and again we are told "According to the good pleasure of His will"
In Him we have redemption through His blood. Who is we? the believers who are born of the Spirit. How was that accomplished? "according to the riches of His Grace" did He do this to everyone? "which He made to abound toward "us" (believers) in all wisdom and prudence"
---Mark_V. on 7/6/10


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It doesn't matter if we say, "us" as individuals, or "us as the Church" They are both the same, believers, He chose the Church which consist of only those who are born of the Spirit, before the foundation of the world, to what? that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love" And how was this done? Was it by our will? God says, "According to the good pleasure of His will" for what? "to the praise of the glory of His grace" It was for His glory.
Verse 9 says, "Having made known to us the mystery of His will," He made known "the mystery of His will only to us,"
He didn't make His will known to the lost.
---Mark_V. on 7/5/10


a good passage to read is Ps. 139. people will have a greater understanding of the power of God and a greater understanding of the power of man. do not get them reverse, believe them with your heart.
---dan on 7/3/10


Darlene1, I agree. We were predestined to be conformed to his image.

God knew before He even created man, that man would sin. Peter tells us it was CHRIST who was for-ordained to take away our sin.

Ephesians 1:4
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we (THE CHURCH) should be holy and without blame before him in love: CONCLUDES in Ephesians THE CHURCH...to present to Himself a chase virgin without spot or wrinkle.

Paul in Ephesians is teaching about the CHURCH as a WHOLE, not individuals.

1 Peter 1:20
Who( JESUS IS WHO) verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
---kathr4453 on 7/2/10


I know that predestination is widely accepted,in the context,as I understand,that God knows who he will call and he does it,they don't have free will. I have long had the thought that perhaps predestination means,instead,about how the Lord God made the way to salvation,and predestination is about having the right to be saved but still allowing mankind the free will to choose if hey accept God or not. Christs crucified on a cross making a way for mankind to have a better Covenant whereby they have a way to be saved. The more I read Ephesians Chapter 1 the more I become convinced that is what was predestinationed,Christs death on the cross,burial,and he arose the 3rd day.
---Darlene_1 on 7/2/10


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Mark V: about your comments about Eph 1, while I know that is the most common, the problem of free will actuaslly disappears (as I read in an old, well-known, British author) if we accept that God is not in time, and knows everything about past, present and future

So God COULD (I am no tsure) make the world so that I meet the man who taught me about God, and know that having made the world as He made it, I would have my soul in such a state that I would accept God, even with my free will

So I SUSPECT (I am not sure) that actually the dispute is not real

PS: If pressed, I am an Augustinian (predestination)
---peter3594 on 7/2/10


Samuel, All those phrases are found in Scripture, and as I can see you deny them, the reason I said what I did, but it does not change the Word of God.
Eph. 1:11, "In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,"
Samuel, here is the difference between the man of faith and the man of unbelief. The unbeliever is "of the world" judges everything by worldy standards, views life from the standpoint of time and sense, and weights everything in the balances of his own carnal making. But the man of faith, brings in God, looks at everything from God's standpoint,
---Mark_V. on 7/2/10


Samuel 2:
a man of faith estimates values by spiritual standards, and views life in the light of eternity. Doing this, he receives whatever comes as from the hand of God. Doing this, he rejoices in the hope of the glory of God. Faith is faith in God, not in ourselves, and the world who claims salvation, is still depending on themselves. It is the humanism still with them, the body dead in sin. "A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven" John 3:27. When we say God is sovereign in the exercises of His love, means that He loves whom He chooses. God does not love everyone, if He did He would love the devil, why? because there is nothing in him to love, neither is there anything to love in fallen man.
---Mark_V. on 7/2/10


Dear Mark by your words you show you are wasting time here. According to you your words cannot bring or show anyone to believe as you do since we are puppets and will only do what we are forced to do.

Your teaching agrees with the Mormons that GOD ordained sin for humans. That GOD created people so he can torture many of them for doing what he makes them do.

As a child gets made at a toy after using the toy to break something takes the toy and burns it. You believe GOD burns us and torture us for all eternity for doing what he made us do.

That is not the GOD of love I read about in scripture.
---Samuel on 7/2/10


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The Bible Truths are replaced with man's truth. But what saith the Scriptures?
They affirm, again and again that God is on the throne of the Universe, that the sceptre is in His hands, that He is directing all things "after the council of His own will, They affirm, not only that God created all things, but also that God is ruling and reigning over all the works of His hands. They affirm that God is the "Almighty," that His will is irreversible, that He is absolute sovereign in every realm of all His vast dominions. And surely it must be so. Only two alternatives are possible: God must either rule, or be ruled, sway or be swayed, acomplish His own will, or be thwarted by His creatures. I take God.
---Mark_V. on 7/2/10


People will do anything possible to not believe what Scripture teaches. They focus on their abilities while lost, which are very few, then to the power of God. The things of the Spirit, which are of God, things they cannot discern. None of them. They are dead in sin. They are children of wrath, not children of God. They do the desires of their father the devil, and they do not believe.
They need a supernatural act to occur, which can only come from God, in their lives in order for them to see, hear, or understand the things of God. Which includes loving Christ, believing in Christ and trusting in His death and resurrection, and believing they have sinned against God. Without that act, they remain unrepentant.
---Mark_V. on 7/1/10


Sovereign means, reigning over all. God is the Creator and has given free will to his creation, and then he gave his Commandment to obey him, these two facts do not contradict each other.
---Eloy on 6/30/10

Exactly, the Sovereignty of God means HE has every RIGHT to send to Hell those who do not believe in His ONLY Begotten Son! God's Sovereignty says.. there is only ONE WAY TO HEAVEN! THROUGH JESUS CHRIST!!

The Sovereignty of God is Narrow!

---kathr4453 on 6/30/10


If one chooses to SIN that is free will. If man had no free will, then a SAVED person would have no free will either. We don't acquire a free will after salvation. Therefore if we who are saved have no free will, then we are SINLESS and incapable of sinning. Why, because God is not the author of SIN. God cannot sin, and cannot even look at sin.

God askes us to HUMBLE OURSELVES..hummm, how can I do that? I have no free will to humble MYSELF. I have no free will to NEED to humble myself to begin with..
---kathr4453 on 6/30/10


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Everyone has a free will. After one becomes a Christian he should voluntarily place his free will under the control of Almighty God.
When you give up your free will or turn it over to God you will began to hear from the spirit, it is when you hear from the spirit that you realize God is directing your free will. Which of course is no longer free but subject to the Lord!!!
---mima on 6/30/10


Sovereign means, reigning over all. God is the Creator and has given free will to his creation, and then he gave his Commandment to obey him, these two facts do not contradict each other. A parent watches over their own child: and the child has free will to either obey the word of their overseeing parent and be blessed by their parent, and the child also has free will to disobey their overseeing parent and not be blessed by their parent. God has set life and death in front of mankind, blessing and cursing, and he says, Choose this day which you will serve. And we all know full well that their are multitudes of people whom choose to disobey their Maker onto their own destruction.
---Eloy on 6/30/10


If man does not have free will, why did God say he was GRIEVED with those in Noah's time. Can a God who made them rebel, be grieved over their rebellion at the same time?

Same as Israel's rebellion. Where does on verse in the OT say...Oh, I'm not grieved or unhappy with you....I hated you from the very beginning and made you that way.

I NEVER said Choose Life or death....because I already chose for you.

When Jesus said, I have stretched out my hand all the day long for you..Jesus was actually LYING and being deceitful...He didn't stretch out His hands at all.

God KNOWS, however just because God KNOWS has nothing to do with our being his puppets.
---kathr4453 on 6/30/10


Pg1, you have given the best answers to my knowledge of who God is. He is the only one who is sovereign. If He was to give His sovereignty to sinful creatures at that, He would stop been Sovereign. And that never happens. He is Ruler on the Throne. Never stops ruling no matter what we seem to think or see. The heathen may rage and the people imagine a vain thing, the king of the earth may set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together against the Lord and against His Christ, saying, "Let us break their bands and asunder and cast away Their cords from us" Ps. 2:1-3, shall God be concerned? No indeed. "He that sitted in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision" v. 4.
---MarkV. on 6/30/10


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more excellent way,
Praise/worship is not about cheering God up, it is about acknowledging who He is. I kindly challenge you to read Revelation, Ex.15, Psalm 144-150, or the Doxologies at the end of Paul's writings in the New Testament. If you still don't believe that God loves and accepts praise read Acts 16 and see what God did after his saints praised him.
---pg1 on 6/29/10


Does God have such a miserable existence that He needs or desires us to 'cheer Him up'?

It is condescending of us to think that we enrich His life or boost His ego with our words of flattery and approval. Does He really need to be reminded that we have accepted Him into our hearts? (some people try to trick Him).

"Worship" simply means to hold Him in high regard in our everyday life (REGARDLESS of how any "dictionary" might explain that word), it is not a PROCEDURE.

Many pastors/ministers/priests are well meaning, but they do not realize that we shouldn't "worship" using mammon (money), nor do they understand that the meanings of words have been corrupted INTENTIONALLY by the moneychangers.
---more_excellent_way on 6/29/10


For hundreds of years, the money-makers ("moneychangers") have earned a living (a very lucrative one) by COMMANDEERING (hijacking) GODS' PEOPLE so they can receive a collection plate full of money that God gave you to provide as best you can for YOUR FAMILY. Gods' family needs no provision OF OURS (or is it that you DISAPPROVE of how God has decided to care for His family?).

The money-makers have made "worship" a 'MONEY THING' procedure.

Amos 5:3
"I HATE, I DESPISE your FEASTS and YOUR SOLEMN ASSEMBLIES".

Our devotion/relationship is not only to be PERSONAL, but PRIVATE....

"The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God" (Romans 14:22).
---more_excellent_way on 6/29/10


more excellent way
To acknowledge God's sovereignty is a big deal because it is worship and an exercise in humility for it reminds us of who is in control of all creation.
---pg1 on 6/28/10


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Proverbs 21:1
"The kings heart is a stream of water in the hand of the LORD, he turns it wherever he will".

Isaiah 46:10
"Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure"

Sound like God does what He wants when He wants!
---Dave on 6/28/10


Man is not sovereign. According to definition sovereignty has to do with complete control and or authority over something. prov. 16:9,
gen. 50:19, prov. 21:1, John 19:11 and ex. 14:4. All these verse illustrate the sovereignty of God not man.
---pg1 on 6/28/10


God allow man to have free will.

The exercise of free will is being in a state of rebellion against God.

Unless you can renounce Free will and accept Gods sovereignty and plan for your life you can never be in the Family of God.

Since God made his selections of who was to be in his family prior to start creation process.

If you are advocating free will your eternal destiny is reprobation. You blew it.
---Friendly_Blogger on 6/28/10


I don't see how it is possible for men to be sovereign... and God to be sovereign at the same time. It's impossible if, as MEW says,// "SOVEREIGN" simply means to be "accountable to NO ONE" except yourself.//

Man has LIMITED sovereignity because he is ALWAYS accountable to God. GOD (by definition) is accountable to NO ONE.

Men are, at times, "accountable" to each other because they have "free-will" (given by God, of course). But despite their free-will, men are not IN CONTROL of everything, though they often fantasize that they are!

You may plan a picnic and prepare the food, but if there is a hail storm, your meal will not be a picnic (unless you reschedule it).
---Donna66 on 6/28/10


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"Sovereignty" has nothing to do with spirituality, it's simply an accountability issue.

For hundreds of years, the traditional teachings of "Christianity" have taught that words should be used simply as spiritual JARGON/lingo. The actual meaning of many words have never been truly understood.

In order for each of us to become sovereign, we need to become 'free thinking human beings' and actually understand what each word means, that is the only way we can truly be a SOUL and have a gentle, peaceful SPIRIT that God's spirit can train...

Romans 8:16
"it is the Spirit himself bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God".

WE must EACH be sovereign.
---more_excellent_way on 6/28/10


Each person CAN be (and SHOULD be) "sovereign" (CONSCIENCE, that is how we become a "living, breathing SOUL"/spirit).

Each Christian is supposed to be sovereign (a law unto ourselves) INITIALLY,...and ULTIMATELY accountable to God.

Romans 2:14
"a law to themselves".

....HOWEVER, the common teachings of Christianity teach that we should become a BOOK PERSON (as Francis was talking about). IT'S TIME for every Godlover to decide what they shall be! (are you a "book" or are you a sovereign "free will" human soul?).

God WANTS (He doesn't NEED anything) sovereign souls that have a peaceful spirit (how much do you care about His WILL/DESIRE?).

So, WHAT SHALL YE BE?
---more_excellent_way on 6/28/10


God's "sovereignty" is a well known FACT and does not need to be annnounced. It does not need our approval, therefore, NOTHING more need ever be said about GOD being sovereign.
---more_excellent_way on 6/28/10

I agree, God's Sovereignty says HE WILL save Israel on day and establish the Kingdom to Israel...and no matter what anyone says..God's sovereignty will do is!!!

Acts 1:6-11
Isaiah 14
Ezekiel 36
Zechariah 12-14
Romans 11
Isaiah 62-66
---kathr4453 on 6/28/10


"SOVEREIGN" simply means to be "accountable to NO ONE" (except yourself, of course).

NATIONS are "sovereign", human beings are supposed to be "sovereign", etc., so what's the big deal about saying that God is sovereign? It is simply one of satan's tricks to get us all excited and marvel at this one fact that God is sovereign (in order to distract us from the real priority....the 'pursuit of TRUTH').

God's "sovereignty" is a well known FACT and does not need to be annnounced. It does not need our approval, therefore, NOTHING more need ever be said about GOD being sovereign.
---more_excellent_way on 6/28/10


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God says: Obey me or you will burn in hell.
Jesus says: follow me or you will burn in hell.
A thief: says give me all you goods or I will kill you.
Jesus says: give me your loyalty or i will burn you in hell.

Is that what free will is?
If you do not do as God says he will kill you andburn your body in hell?

SIGNED
devil's advocate
---francis on 6/28/10


To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

Amen Sister Micha and God Bless, This was well shared & worth repeating!!! Grace Unto You & Peace Be Multiplied.

We have the ability to choose. God wants us to choose Him. He does not want robots programmed to say 'I love you'.

That being said, He also knows who has & will choose Him... and when someone will make the choice toward Him : Being beyond time and eternal, He sees who is written in the Book of Life.

Thinking only of free will is horizontal thinking, earthly.
(Isaiah 55:9)
Thinking of God's sovereignty in dealing with His creation is vertical thinking, Heavenly. --Micha9344 on 6/25/10
---ShawnM.T. on 6/26/10


whether we accept Gods sovereignty or not it still exists.Every facet of our nature,accept the ability or sin nature comes from God.Gods sovereignty means he is the creator of all things,and controls all things,and will judge all things,and as God has the right to do so.God made man with the ability to choose,why?do you wish someone to choose to love you?as a parent we want our children to mature and make good choices,so it is with God,is not the enjoyment of raising them watching them make good decisions?read the love chapter first cor chapter 13,love doesn,t force itself upon anyone.
---tom2 on 6/26/10


Good question!

(John 8:34) Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.
According to Jesus, if you sin, you are a slave to sin.
Paul says in Romans 6:18 that those who are set free of sin are slaves to righteousness.

Does a slave have free will?
If one is free do do as they want, they are slaves to no one.
---David on 6/26/10


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John the Baptist said, "A man can receive nothing unless it has been given to him from heaven." (John 3:27) Ones say they in their own free will can choose what God wants. Well, the Bible says, "rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4) So, I understand that we are doing God's will, while we are being pleasing to Him in His love's "incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit". How well has your "free will" succeeded in doing this? We need to become "free indeed" (8:36).
---Bill_bila5659 on 6/25/10


God made us in His image. We have the ability to choose. God wants us to choose Him. He does not want robots programmed to say 'I love you'.
That being said, He also knows who has and will choose Him. He knows His sheep. He will divide the sheep from the goats. He knows if and when someone will make the choice toward Him. Being beyond time and eternal, He sees who is written in the book of life. John saw it sealed and opened.
Thinking only of free will is horizontal thinking, earthly.
Thinking of God's sovreignty in dealing with His creation is vertical thinking, heavenly.
You can't have one without the other.
God's sovreignty is recognized by us because of Him and how He created us.
---micha9344 on 6/25/10


Sovereingnty is opposed or unlike predistination

Predestination is for anyone who believes

Sovereignity is the part of God where he can call whomever he chooses to a special work.

Like abraham
Why choose abraham when melchedick is already priest of God?
Why choose jacob over Esau?
why choose abraham over Lot?

It is because of the sovergeingnity of God
---francis on 6/25/10


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