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Should Christians Be Poor

Since God used Gold to pave his pavements (and we use cement down here on earth) and God uses Rubies, Jasper, Diamonds, Topaz, etc., to design his throne and things in heaven, why should Christians be poor down here? Is this where the prosperity message came from?

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 ---Donna5535 on 7/6/10
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We can certainly know that there were more than one and that they (not just one) brought treasure by the only Scripture that mentions it:

Mat 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts, gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.

More than one, at least 2, but no proof of three. That was the point.

2Co 8:9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

He became poor with our poverty by becoming the curse in His passion. He had an overflow in His earthwalk.
---Linda on 7/17/10


//...riches come in many forms. You can be rich in food,love,time,talent,friendship. Riches does not only mean money. When we receive Jesus as our Lord and Savior, we are rich. We possess something money cannot buy.//
---Robyn on 7/16/10

Loud Amen, Robyn! It depends on how we act no matter how big or small our bank balance is.
---aka.joseph on 7/16/10


This is a mind numbing rationale to the question, but in short the answer to "should" is NO.

There is no common ground between earth and the third heaven so the suggestion of rubies, Seraphim and thrones vs. earth (dirt) makes no sense.
Its akin to saying that because there is no weariness or need for sleep in heaven should we bother dozing off between now and the second coming.
---larry on 7/16/10


\\ And every one of them brought gold, frankincense, and myrrh.\\

Please prove from scripture these two facts:

1. Every one of the wise men brought gold, frankincens, and myrrh.

2. That there were less or more than three of them.
---Cluny on 7/16/10


Some people have very active imaginations. Including pastors,teachers and so forth. Some Christians will be poor and some somewhere in between. It is no crime to be poor. I know one thing,all Christians will not be rich. But riches come in many forms. You can be rich in food,love,time,talent,friendship. Riches does not only mean money. When we receive Jesus as our Lord and Savior, we are rich. We possess something money cannot buy.
---Robyn on 7/16/10




The world has pictured Jesus as a poor man, just barely getting by. Even Christmas cards have a baby in a manger and THREE wise men (not shepherds) coming to visit him. That isn't even Scriptural. It says only "wise men" and doesn't give a number. And they visited him in a house, not a stable. And every one of them brought gold, frankincense, and myrrh. At around 2 years old, Jesus had an abundance of wealth both spiritually and materially. And even if one would like to say, "Well, Mary and Joseph got those riches to take care of Jesus", the truth is that they were blessed because of Him.
---Linda on 7/16/10


Jesus took care of more than just His family. He also took care of His followers. That required resources. And does it really matter if the coin was in the treasury bag or the fish's mouth? It was still His since He would never steal. And if you want to spiritualize everything, then the fact that Jesus built houses simply testifies to the truth that He is the Builder of the House of God. But I don't think you will find many people who don't believe He really built houses, learning the business of Joseph who was considered by the Jews His earthly father. You can't spiritualize some of it and materialize the rest. The truth is that Jesus perfectly expressed the heart of the Father spiritually, mentally, physically, socially, and financially.
---LindaS on 7/16/10


Again, Rhonda, I've been put in a position that I cannot speak to because I simply did not ever say what you claim that my stance is.
---aka.joseph on 7/16/10


akajoseph no clue which topic I didn't answer you in ...no online tracking features here ...I rarely look to a poster and remember HOW they responded on one topic so that I use it against/or for them in current topic ...a few I remember because we disagree strongly on one topic yet I don't base my answer on this topic on their answers from previous topics ...I don't have time or energy to monitor and categorize everyones responses across hundreds of topics here

whatever the case I bid you peace

sadly too many use will worship to remain poor ...believing their reward is larger for self denial ...yet unable to conceal their hatred for those who have more and wrongly and foolishly condemning the rich
---Rhonda on 7/15/10


idk, 1 Corinthians 4:8-14 nails it on the head pretty good,lol.
it appears if You trust in money You pick it up,much as if You trust in rattlesnakes You pick them up also.
---kevin5443 on 7/8/10




the real message is ,the real truth is,there is nothing in the world that makes anyone rich,NOTHING.Bill gates has 640 million dollars>is he rich?by the worlds view yes,but he may be heading for hell,so just how rich is he?lets see 50 years as a millionaire, then eternity in hell.anyway the real question is what is being rich?it aint money,it aint things,ironically we forget God owns everything,including what we have,
---tom2 on 7/9/10


jesus told the parable about the rich man,and lazarus.plainly we see which one was truthfully rich,aka wealthy,if being wealthy leads you to hell then truthfully you never were rich.jesus told the man at the sermon on the mount,go give all you own to the poor ,then come and follow me,seems jesus realizes that wealth gets in the way of the spirit,why? because in between is the flesh,it likes money,it likes riches,it likes being comfortable.
---tom2 on 7/9/10


Rhonda,

I never said what you are saying that I said, so how can I address what I do not believe? You are projecting on me what others teach. (Your refusal to actually read my words may indicate there is something else at hand here.)

Anyway, properity is in the Spirit, but you denied the Spirit in another blog. Therfore, we do not and cannot speak the same language.

You did not address my questions there, and you did not address Cluny's blog either. Yet, you expect me to answer something that I never said.
---aka.joseph on 7/8/10


Rhonda, you insist on putting spurious meanings on the words ...my word play is from the Word itself

Properity is in the Spirit.
****

no it is you who chooses to propose the misunderstanding the passages you choose to quote YET continue to EVADE the DIRECT question

WHERE does Holy Scripture IMPLY financial poverty?

Or to your liking - where is financial poverty likened to Prosperity in the Spirit?

you DO see the big DIFFERENCE?

wealth and riches do not prevent Prosperity in the Spirit

however the MESSAGE from religious christianity IS financial poverty (will worship of having less and being less in life) will magically provide "prosperity in the spirit"
---Rhonda on 7/8/10


catherine

are you putting words in my mouth. what I said is 'another stupid teaching'. i heard that from pastors & priest.
the messengers of god will quote a verse, give THEIR OWN INTERPRETATION, TELL YOU TO 'don't question the word of god', then when you fail they still blame you for THEIR OWN TEACHING. if you question the word of god, YE LACK FAITH.
pastors & priest do not preach the issues of life. the first answer they give you is: that is a sin.

that is how they put people in bondage.

joseph

tell that to the pastors & priest for they are the MESSENGERS OF GOD & we are told to 'obey the word of god'
---mike on 7/8/10


Amen, Sag

Are we defining rich and poor by American standards? I am an average wage earner by American standards, but I am rich compared to the other 3/4 of the world population.

There is a new movement in the Word of Faith camp to make us believe Jesus was very rich. Among some of the the spurious claims already made, they claim that the soldier's at Golgotha shot dice for Jesus' robe because it was so exquisite.

I am an auditor that audits for profit and non-profit agencies. Some are barely are getting by. They are not poor. They just have low cash flow, and they all have treasurers. Obviously, Jesus did not trust his treasurer, he had to hide coins in clever places like a fish's mouth.
---aka.joseph on 7/8/10


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Linda, A rich person does not hire treasurers that he does not trust, and let a thief continually steal from him. People in charge do not kill a rich man BEFORE they get his treasures. Another claim that they make is that Jesus must be rich because he promises us rooms in His mansion. Again, a misuse of the temporal over the spritual meaning.

Why was he a carpentar (brick layer) which is very laborous if He were rich? Also, in the rich v. poor debate, whatever happened to the middle class? If I had to guess, I would say Jesus was lower MC. He had enought to pay his "bills" and feed his family. Without any proof other than supposition, I cannot make that assertation just like one cannot assert that he was very rich.
---aka.joseph on 7/8/10


//I also appreciate other commentaries.//
alrighty, then...
catherine, i can imagine the priest and the Levite saying the same thing that you did in your blog to mike as they did to the beaten man on their way to Jericho.

If the is only one mike blogging, you would know that he is wounded, and you do not have time for him. Just by reading that one blog, you can tell.

If you can help mike, do so. If you cannot at this time, he does not need to hear that you have the "understanding", but will not stop to help him. That is like putting salt in his wound (assuming that you have the understanding.)

Remember, Jesus will treat you the way that you treat the least of His.

mike, I hope you are well today.
---aka.joseph on 7/8/10


He came that we might have abundant life. Poor is not nessesarliy money, it's a state of being. Ever hear someone say "You poor thing". Poor doesn't only mean lacking money. So we should all have the hope of being RICH if we trust and believe in the Lord Jesus.
---Carrie on 7/7/10


//Jesus was very poor//

Jesus was not poor until He was made poverty with our poverty in His death. He was brought gold, frankincense, and myrrh by the wise men as a very young child. He not only took care of His needs, but also those who followed Him, all while a thief was stealing from His bag. He was so rich, he needed a treasurer. That is a far cry from poor.
---Linda on 7/7/10


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Mike, Mike, you do not understand Scriptures. I do not have the time to look them up for you and to explain them to you, because, I must look up something else, right now. I could do this job myself, but, I also appreciate other commentaries. Maybe later I shall. However, I will say this much are you paying attention>>>GOD IS NOT STUPID!
---catherine on 7/7/10


one stupid teaching is this verse
'blessed are the poor'
then they give the advantages of being poor like rich people do not got to heaven

verse luke 18:25 it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of god

or the parable of the rich man
'give all your possession & follow christ'

or don't store treasures on earth. etcetc
---mike on 7/7/10


aka.joseph:

I agree with you on what "defines" prosperity.

It isn't attending a big, rich "church". Nor is it where you are "employed" and how much $$$ you "earn".

Prosperity is your relationship with GOD:

Jesus was very poor, yet very close to GOD. Howard Hughes, Tom Petters, Enron executives, etc. were very rich, yet so unhappy.

The world's definition of "properity" -- MONEY -- isn't true "prosperity". GOD determines our "properity" according to what HE has provided us.
---Sag on 7/7/10


God makes some of His people very wealthy, money and possessions wise, however, He also blesses, or choose to bless some with other gifts. Whether you are poor or rich does not make you holy or unholy....Take what God gives you and do something with it, for His glory.
---catherine on 7/7/10


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//except you failed to answer//

I did answer, but you did not like the answer. Again, I will say that true prosperity is how you act in the Spirit whether you are rich or poor.

Job was a man of great prosperity. Was this because of his earthly possessions? No, it was because he held onto his faith in God despite his circumstance.

Rhonda, you insist on putting spurious meanings on the words that I use and putting words on my fingers that I never typed. I assure my word play is from the Word itself: 2 Corinthians 8:2, 2 Corinthians 8:9, Revelation 2:9

Properity is in the Spirit.
---aka.joseph on 7/7/10


Donna5535, Jesus said in John 8:23 ...Ye are from beneath, I am from above: ye are of this world, I am not of this world.
---aka.joseph on 7/7/10


You can follow in Solomon's (or any other man's) shadow. I will stay in the light of the one greater than Solomon.
*****

yes your word play is terrific

except you failed to answer

WHERE is the antichrist financial poverty message PREACHED in mainstream christianity FOUND in Holy Scripture

you MUST IMPLY that following Christ is to be financially poor

the temptation of riches is no greater than any other temptation ALL SIN is equal

making barely enough to financially survive is not biblical

seeing you must cling to idea of being poor (or will worship of going without) to see your cherished enlightenment

money is simply a medium of exchange ...one can do more good with money than without
---Rhonda on 7/7/10


Jesus Himself said, "The birds of the air have nests, and the foxes have holes, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head."

Does this mean that Jesus didn't have faith?
---Cluny on 7/6/10

Cluny, you know how much I admire you, right? I feel like I'm on the Jerry Springer show..lol.

Well...why don't YOU answer this question for us since you seem to be the scholar on this board. I'm not into theological meanings, etc., but I can say that Jesus DID have faith, but WHY did Jesus say "The Son of Man has NOWHERE to lay His head?"

Who wouldn't offer Jesus a place to stay? Or am I mis-interpreting this scripture?
---Donna5535 on 7/7/10


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jesus,s main message about money,or riches was the temptation of loving it more than God.as he said you can not serve two masters ,either you will love the one and hate the other,being spiritually rich is far more important,remember with wealth comes a drastic temptation,and money can easily become your master and idol.
---tom2 on 7/6/10


//riches are LITERAL however the message of being MORE spiritual because one lives in poverty IS an antichrist poverty message//

Poor does not equal poverty. It is amazing how much is written into what another says. I never said that we are to abide in poverty. I said that our prosperity will show in how we live in this temporal world: rich or poor.

I can be literally rich and spiritually poor. I can also be literally poor and spiritually poor. I can even be literally poor and spiritually (en)rich(ed). However, go ahead and try to be literally rich and spiritually rich. You can follow in Solomon's (or any other man's) shadow. I will stay in the light of the one greater than Solomon.
---aka.joseph on 7/6/10


prosper euodoo

it is a compound of two words meaning 'good journey'.

Php 4:12 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.

It is your journey that makes you prosperous and not your wallet or ability to pay your bills. It is how you handle yourself along the journey with use of the fruit of the Spirit.
---aka.joseph on 7/6/10


Seeing riches as literal instead of spiritual is definitely where the 'prosperity' message came from.
*****

riches are LITERAL however the message of being MORE spiritual because one lives in poverty IS an antichrist poverty message MANY false churches preach as "spiritual"

Proverbs 10:15 The rich man's wealth is his strong city: the destruction of the poor is their poverty

Solomon was blessed with riches on EARTH as were MANY who walked with God

struggling financially is a SIN we are commanded to not forsake the poor NOT BE poor

Amen Leslie and Francis
---Rhonda on 7/6/10


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Is this where the prosperity message came from?

No sister Donna, the prosperity message came from well-to-do televangelists who desired and desire to use scripture to justify earthly wealth.
The sin is not in having wealth but in the suggestion that God is some type of Genie who if manipulated correctly will supply large homes, Escalades, cabin cruisers, overseas vacations and the like.

Nevermind the Savior, a homeless Palestinian Jew, has no earthly wealth worthy of even mention in scripture.
God bless you, Donna.
---larry on 7/6/10


\\Prosperity message comes from faith.
3 John 1:2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.
---francis on 7/6/10\\

And in 1 Timothy: Having food and raiment, let us therewith be content.

Jesus Himself said, "The birds of the air have nests, and the foxes have holes, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head."

Does this mean that Jesus didn't have faith?
---Cluny on 7/6/10


Paul states there are a more enduring substance in heaven.
The colors of materials in heaven may resemble that of precious metals, gems and stones here but they are not the same.
Our element chart is limited.
---earl on 7/6/10


No, Christians should NOT be poor, this is NOT God's will. However, the prosperity Gospel is also WRONG in the fact that it teaches that you should be living in a mansion and driving an expensive car if you are a Christian. This message is also BONDAGE, NOT freedom. This is because if most Christians had this kind of money, they would worship the money and things as their god, and NOT worship God as God. God supplies money and things to us, but only when we seek HIM and HIS KINGDOM FIRST, NOT money or things. TRUE prosperity is when you have enough money to pay all your bills and tithes, without having debt, and having some left over to provide for your wants and the needs of others.
---Leslie on 7/6/10


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why should Christians be poor down here? Is this where the prosperity message came from.

While the wages of sin is death, the results of sin include povery, hunger, illness, violence, and other disadvantages to many to mention.

Prosperity message comes from faith.
3 John 1:2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.
---francis on 7/6/10


I can tell you this...you're both right. I had an 83 year old anointed man of God (retired now, does some travelling and teachings) he told me that I am seeking eternal things, not things on this earth, so the rubies and diamonds, etc., don't mean a darn thing to me.

I WANT GOD. I want to know I have God's heart and He has mine. But it sure would be nice to not have to work since I've worked all of my life and supported myself financially all of my life - I'd like a few years off from work - that's all I want, but since it's not happening, I'll sit in His Presence getting filled up with HIM and HIM alone. I love the both of you - you two alan and joseph ROCK!!!
---Donna5535 on 7/6/10


I wonder where God gets the Rubies etc from?
And will they be so expensive in Heaven? After all God will just be able to make them instantaneously, so they won't have the rarity that makes them so valuable here.
I find it difficult to take the description literally!
---alan8566_of_uk on 7/6/10


like, as unto, appeared as...

God is spiritual, I would bet all those rich earthly comparisons are nowhere near the worth (or beauty) of the new Jerusalem as it really is.

All the earthly riches in the world that ever existed do not add up to one man/woman/child's salvation in Jesus or enterance into the 'gates' of Heaven as we see them now.

Seeing riches as literal instead of spiritual is definitely where the 'prosperity' message came from. Not seeing ourself as a new creature instead of a Gentile or Jew will keep you there in temporal things.
---aka.joseph on 7/6/10


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