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How Old Is The Earth

How old is the earth?

Moderator - About 10,000 years old.

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 ---atheist on 7/11/10
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Alan, According to the scripture Jesus is a white Jew: "My beloved is white and ruddy, the chiefest among ten thousand. The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. And Jacob bore Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. Concerning the Son of him, the coming of the heir of David, down from flesh, marked out the Son of God in power, down from Spirit of holiness, from resurrection from death." Song of Sol.5:10+ Mt.1:1,16+ Rm.1:3.
---Eloy on 7/14/10


'Science' by most secular account have included many beliefs and preconceived notions.
Some want evidence for our views and mock, yet give no evidence for their and call it truth.
Maybe a little evidence in support of evolution or an old earth may help guide people out of what you call darkness, since you don't want to leave what we call darkness.
It's not 'science against religion'. It's philosphies and beliefs that are different.
We have the same evidence, the same scientific principles, but different starting points, one with God, one without.
---micha9344 on 7/14/10


An absurd discussion about whether Adam could read or write, was created as an adult or the most ludicrous of all discussions on whether his pigment was brown or pink!
---larry on 7/14/10

Absurd to you perhaps. But, then not to others who need answers. You have that faith that alone is all you need.
But, you and your type can/will never answer questions that might make a difference in someones faith....or Berean their search. Perhaps like your schooled kids or grandkids...or someone elses.
Colossians 4:6
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.

(I know, I know. I'm still working on the seasoned with grace part)
---Trav on 7/14/10


Larry when creation scientist speakers such as Dr Don Batten, Dr. David Catchpoole, Dr Tas Walker, Dr Jonathan Sarfati, Dr Carl Wieland, Dr Mark Harwood et al are regularly asked the same questions by people who think their question creates doubt as to the the truth of the Biblical account of creation. Interestingly the same questions are asked world-wide.

For that reason Dr's Batten, Catchpoole, Sarfati and Wieland wrote "The Creation Answers Book."

A common questions is "How did the different 'races' arise?" This question, including skin colours is answered in the edition I have (2006) on pages 217-234.

This book contains answers to the 20 most commonly asked questions. I suggest you get a copy.
---Warwick on 7/14/10


Atheist would have us believe the Biblical creation position is ridiculous. Not so. The record shows Biblical creationists have been very successful in debates with atheists. For one example view the Dawkins/Lennox debate.

As atheist must remember I advised that a major world-wide gathering of atheists occurred in Australia early this year. Scientists from Creation Ministries International, challenged these leading atheists (including Prof. Dawkins) to a debate. These men who use their positions, the press, documentaries and books to ridicule creationists lacked the courage to debate scientists from CMI.

They feel safe ridiculing from a safe distance but afraid of a face-to-face public debate. Such courage.
---Warwick on 7/14/10




Further to the defensibility of the Biblical creation position may I suggest those wanting to know the truth obtain a copy of Dr Sarfati's book "The Greatest Hoax on Earth." This book was written in reply to Dr Dawkin's book "The Greatest Show on Earth, the evidence for evolution."

Dr Sarfati pulls all Dr Dawkin's arguments apart, one by one, including the age of the earth.

Get a copy and learn where the truth lies.

atheist if you are open minded enough I will happily buy you a copy. Just let me know.
---Warwick on 7/14/10


"Jesus is God, and according to the scripture, Jesus was a white Jew"

Please quote the acripture

Thanks
---alan8566_of_uk on 7/14/10


atheist you would have us believe our lawmakers are guilty if a lawbreaker goes to prison!

Well I suppose that is quite in line with left-wing thinking, which considers the criminal the victim

In contradiction God says those who break the law are lawbreakers and must suffer the consequences. It was Adam who rebelled against his Creator's commands, he therefore was the lawbreaker, not God


God proclaimed the curse, already knowing He would provide the solution. It was God who came and paid the price-the wages of sin is death-that we may be saved and freed from the curse. What a wonderful God that He did what we cannot do!

"God didn't even tell Adam that a curse was possible.." and you know this how?
---Warwick on 7/14/10


Eloy:

How do you know Jesus was a "white Jew"? The scriptures make no mention whatsoever of his skin color. Jews (as a race) are a Semitic people, with darker features than typical Caucasians. Semites tend to have curly black hair and brown eyes. The European stereotype of Jesus as being blond, blue-eyed, and fair-skinned is very popular these days, but it is merely a human tradition that has no support in scripture whatsoever.

Also, all men are made in the image of God - whether white, black, red yellow, or any other color. As such, they can't ALL have the same "skin color as God" (so you can't deduce God's skin color this way). As far as one being the image of the other, the specific color is IRRELEVANT.
---StrongAxe on 7/14/10


Larry,

No. I just wanted to see how absurd the belief that the earth is 10,000 years or less would carry a discussion.

Our resident racist brought up skin color. And as far as Adam reading---wow I didn't know they had book publishers back when.

Apparently, denying evolutionary theory is just the tippy tip tip of the iceberg, and arguing science or any other dicipline that contradicts a particular believer's peculiar and personel beliefs in regard to their understanding of their god and scripture is just foolish.

Now I am beginning to get it.

But the reason you all are arguing is not because I was sent here by Satan to stir the pot. You do it because none of what you believe makes any sense.
---atheist on 7/14/10




"may well have been"
"could have witnessed"
---leej on 7/14/10
The observation of a day is dependent upon a light source.
2 problems: God created a light source and saw the Earth rotate.
Exodus 31:17 It [is] a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
Exodus 20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Who are you gonna believe, God or leej?
---micha9344 on 7/14/10


Somehow a disengenous question about the age of the earth ends as the questioner desired.

An absurd discussion about whether Adam could read or write, was created as an adult or the most ludicrous of all discussions on whether his pigment was brown or pink!
Satan is subtle and often successful in getting us to miss the mark. Atheist wants to discuss anything other than God's glory or the health of his own soul.

The earth, regardless of its age and Adam, regardless of his intellect or pigmentation were created by a holy and living God worthy of all praise. Period.
---larry on 7/14/10


strongax, because someone does not know the scriptures does not mean the scriptures are silent. According to the scripture, Adam was made in the likeness of God his Maker, and according to the scripture, Jesus is God, and according to the scripture, Jesus was a white Jew. Thus according to the scripture, we can know that Jesus created Adam to look like himself, that is, white. This is not conjecture nor oppinion, nor is it silent, but publicly broadcasted in the scriptures.
---Eloy on 7/14/10


If we go by the Biblical account the first 2 "days" or periods of time may well have been much longer than 24 hours.

While the earth rotates once on its axis every 24 hours, those first 2 'days' or periods of time, could have witnessed millions of rotations. Howbeit we know nothing of the rotation of the earth prior to the 3rd 'day' of creation.

We view a day as a period of time dependent upon the rotation of the earth in relationship to the sun (dictionary definition), however, the sun was not created until the 3rd 'day'.

I realize some like Warwick believe ones eternal salvation depend upon the belief of 24 hour creation days, but he has little to offer to refute.



---leej on 7/14/10


Atheist, have you been watching too much of the "V" series on television? Humans do not have reptilean brains. As for humans being cursed, God forewarned Adam not to disobey his commandment in touching the forbidden tree or else he would die, hello? Do you think a person can willfully disobey without incurring any consequences? Wise counsel says, Do not commit the offense, if you do not want to pay the consequence: do not do the crime, if you do not want to do the time.
---Eloy on 7/14/10


\There is nothing in Scripture to say Adam was not literate\\

There's nothing in Scripture to say that Adam WAS literate, either.
---Cluny on 7/14/10


I've never given the subject much thought...but, Adam did name things. Technically speaking ...this opens up some literacy questions. One would have to consider...where did Adam learn his language.....to name things. Surely not from the humans who were running around previous to Adam. Eve's name had a meaning. Adam, was a little smarter than the average cave grunter.
According to books not in approved by RCC, Christ started school...but, was smarter than the Rabbi from day one. As we would expect he would be. Perhaps the 1st Adam was also.
---Trav on 7/14/10


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Time and time again, somebody or other on these blogs saysscripture says this or that, when in fact it is silent.---StrongAxe on 7/14/10

Well, it is silent when one wants it to be. I see and hear that it speaks clearly. Red is a color.
You are dancing...a ballet of jealousy.
All evidence points to Caucasion. What is so bad about this? I mean after all if it was not for them and their (laws in heart) unselfishness, the literature we pocess would never have gone out around the world.
They fill every blessing/curse in scripture, in every way. Actually fulfilling scripture in open handedness. What is silent about that?
A little/lot jealous perhaps? Nothing U can do about it accepted or not.
---Trav on 7/14/10


Trav:

Of COURSE I used a lot of "coulds". Scripture is SILENT about what color Adam's skin was (as well as many other things). You COULD infer that his name indicates that, but that is pure conjecture, and not something in any way indicated by scripture.

I did not claim Adam was caucasian, or any particular race. I did nto mention political correctness. The ONLY thing I did was show scripture is silent on this matter, so any opinions we have are just that - personal opinions.

Time and time again, somebody or other on these blogs saysscripture says this or that, when in fact it is silent. Without taking any sides on whether they say is true or not, I merely point out that scripture is silent on the matter.
---StrongAxe on 7/14/10


\\There is nothing in Scripture to say Adam was not literate\\

There's nothing in Scripture to say that Adam WAS literate, either.
---Cluny on 7/14/10


Trav:
'Adam' is related to 'Adom' (red).---StrongAxe on 7/14/10

Well you gottalotta "coulds" there. The fact that Hebrews who recorded the "Scriptures" being caucasion has no bearing. Nah.

GOD is not allowed to choose who he wants for his servants according to the politically correct. All want to be GOD's own. They just aren't crazy about the servant parts,or truth parts.

6For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people, for ye were the fewest of all people:
---Trav on 7/14/10


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Trav:

'Adam' is related to 'Adom' (red). This could be because of his skin color.
'Adam' is related to 'Adamah' (soil). This could be because he was formed from the earth.
'Adam' is related to 'Dam' (blood). This could be because blood flows through his veins.

While one can acknowledge all of these, it would be premature to dogmatically assert that one specific one was the primary reason why the name was selected.
---StrongAxe on 7/14/10


Regarding assumptions Scripture is silent regarding Adam's skin colour.

However a knowledge of genetics shows he would have to have been mid brown for us to have the range of skin tones which exist today.
Do you understand?
---Warwick on 7/13/10


I understand. I understand you don't understand. I understand your doctrines your salesman-ship and politics. I understand you wish I didn't understand.

First of all Scripture is not silent, except to you perhaps.

121 'Adam {aw-dawm'}
Adam = "red"
1) first man

No doubt a caucasion. A problem for many it seems.
---Trav on 7/14/10


Because of Adam's actions, god cursed man.

Warwick god made the curse. Adam did not have the capability to curse all of mankind by his actions. God didn't even tell Adam that a curse was possible if Adam did such and so. Your ability to get things wrong by twisting them around to fit you predetermined beliefs is amazing.

Strongeaxe, you get my drift on "primitive". Despite the science deniers here, an explanation which includes a "primitive" or "reptilian" brain, covered and mediated by a more evolved, rational, and socially friendly brain, does explain a lot. When the higher brain fails, the primitive brain gives us primitive, (AKA evil?) behavior.
---atheist on 7/14/10


atheist please never leave this site. Your creative ability to get things wrong is entertaining.

Or is it a creative ability to act as if you don't understand?

As Scripture says when Adam sinned by directly rebelling against God's command there were consequences, as Genesis ch. 3 explains. Man was the cause of the curse, not God. Today, still, man is the cause of the untold suffering in our world.

I believe the Biblical reason for the self-created, self-propagated mess we are in makes better sense than the evolutionary model.

No I don't blame God, not even your god!

I am heartened by your steep learning curve. There is hope for you yet.

BTW was man ever primitive?
---Warwick on 7/14/10


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atheist:

Of course it's possible to think primitively without being primitive. During WW2, many "enlightened Germans" built sophisticated inter-continental rockets (designed solely to kill large numbers of civilians) and/or built gas chambers capable of murdering millions, and then when the whistle blew, went home at the ends of their shifts to spend quality time with their loving wives and children.

Most of the greatest examples of genocide in human history have been in the 20th century.
---StrongAxe on 7/14/10


strongax, Adam was indeed alive at the same time as his great great great great grandson Henoch. Henoch was alive when Adam was alive, for Adam lived to be 930 years old. Jesus created Adam the first man in 4194 B.C. And in the 7th generation of man, Adam told his great great great great grandson Henoch about the creation. And I believe that in the 36th century B.C. Henoch wrote down what Adam told him firsthand in a book.
---Eloy on 7/14/10


No, man was never "primative". When newly created, mankind was much larger, lived much longer, and had a much greater intellect than he does today. Devolution - and not Evolution - has occurred as a result of sin since that time. There was no written language by early man because none was needed. They had the intellect to remember everything and the time (nearly 1000 years) to pass information to multiple succeeding generations.

The artistic creations of "primative" man are ficticious works made to sell the atheist creation fable - Evolution.
---jerry6593 on 7/14/10


"Six thousand years of the curse has left us in a mess." Warwick.

There you go, blaming 'god' again.

Oh. Curses are examples of primitive thinking and its in the Bible. But I guess primitive thinking extends to the current day. (But is primitive thinking possible without being primitive? Could a primitive thinker drive a race car?)

Or do you have scientific proof of curses? Or sorry, I forgot, I have to propose an experiment that proves that curses don't exist. See an atheist can learn...

Need to go talk to my shamman...
---atheist on 7/13/10


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Ignatius, whether Adam appeared fully grown is not the point, but that he obviously appeared supernaturally with all faculties/knowledge needed for survival, communication, understanding, pleasure, reproduction etc.

There is nothing in Scripture to say Adam was not literate. And the toledoth break at Genesis 5:1 says "this is the written account of Adam's line. These 11 breaks in Genesis speak of events which occurred between the breaks. This strongly suggests the people mentioned kept written records.

As God was able to create Adam fully functioning there is no reason to believe he did not create Adam also literate.

I think your apparent annoyance may stem from me treading upon some man-made traditions of yours.
---Warwick on 7/13/10


Ignatius your point about mankind accruing knowledge over time is not relevant. Adam was created a fully functioning human, supernaturally, with all necessary faculties and knowledge to function in his world. There is good reason to believe that being created perfect he had far greater intellect than we mutants today. Do you understand the difference between intellect, and knowledge? Do you know what knowledge God imparted to him?

Six thousand years of the curse has left us in a mess. Come Lord Jesus.

Regarding assumptions Scripture is silent regarding Adam's skin colour. However a knowledge of genetics shows he would have to have been mid brown for us to have the range of skin tones which exist today. Do you understand?
---Warwick on 7/13/10


atheist indeed was man ever primitive?

Biblically speaking (to a Christian) is there any Biblical proof that Adam was primitive?

Speaking to you, do you have proof that man was ever primitive?

Notice how I answer your questions?
---Warwick on 7/13/10


\\Cluny, Henoch wrote Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy, and not Moses.\\

Please give evidence for your claim, Eloy.

And if you do this time, it will sure be different from what happened the first few times you claimed this, because you didn't give any evidence then.

In any case, Enoch was translated before the birth of Moses (recorded in Exodus) and, for that matter, most of the events of Genesis.

So just how could he have written of things that happened AFTER his translation? Notice he didn't say, "It will happen that...."
---Cluny on 7/13/10


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As far as how old is the earth, the Moderator seem to be correct. According to human records, the Earth seem to be 10,000 years old. However, if one takes university level courses in Biology, Anthropology, Cosmology, Geology, etc, the Earth seem to older than that and humans been around much longer that.....

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 7/13/10


Warwick-

"A written account needs a writer and God had Adam... "

According to the traditional view in Judaism and Christianity, Moses wrote the Torah.

"The only reason anyone would assume Adam could not write is....."

Or there is lack of evidence to suggest Adam could read and write. Did Adam also had the ability to build and operate a computer or had a perfect knowledge in technology, biology, science, mathematician, etc, was able to build high tech buildings or the many things that a Modern Human can do and have knowledge of? Or did humans LEARN how to do things as centuries pass with the increase in knowledge? Thus, were humans primitive at one point? I reckon so.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 7/13/10


David , 'day' (Hebrew yom) has 3 meanings.

See the Holman Bible Dictionary p.397

1)The time of daylight-sunrise to sunset-Genesis 1:14, 3:8, Amos 5:8.

2) General expression for 'time'without specific limits-Genesis 2:4, Ps. 102:3.

3) 24hr period-Genesis 1:5.

This is how we use 'day', 'yom', 'jour', 'tag', in every language with which I am conversant.

Therefore Genesis 2:4 is not saying God created everything in a 24hr day.

Therefore Genesis 1:5 is defining the first ever 24hr day, the same 24hr day as all mankind has always lived.

You would have me believe our daytime + nighttime does not equal a 24hr day!

A question: For whom was the Bible written, for God or for man?
---Warwick on 7/13/10


Gen 2:5b ...a man to till the ground.
Gen 3:7b ...they sewed fig leaves together...
Gen 3:19b ...shalt thou eat bread...
Gen 3:23b ...to till the ground...
Gen 4:21b ...the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.
Gen 4:22b ...an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron...
Gen 5 About 1556 years passed
Gen 6:22 about 1656 years from Adam's creation, Noah builds a freighter sized ark.
--doesn't sound to primitive to me.
---micha9344 on 7/13/10


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Warwick:

1) There is NO evidence from Holy Scriptures that Adam was a Adult when God created Him. If so, what age? All we have is pure assumptions.
2) There is NO evidence that Adam could read or write.
3) There is no evidence that God literally pen the first two chapters in Genesis (He inspired Holy Men to write, but allow freedom in their writings styles), yet alone any evidence that Adam wrote the next chapters and Moses edited it.
4) In fact, there is no evidence that even Moses wrote the Book of Genesis (or that Enoch wrote it as Eloy believes), but it the Tradition of both Judaism and Christianity.

So in the end, we have your assumptions. Very non-biblical teachings going on here.......

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 7/13/10


Eloy:

Enoch wasn't alive when Adam was created either. Or do you believe that he wrote about that as an eye-witness as well (as you claim Matthew did of Jesus's birth)?

Do you have any shred of evidence (not personal belief, but actual evidence that can be corroborated by anyone else) that Enoch wrote any of the Old Testament, especially anything that happened after the flood, when he wasn't around?

"he was not, because God took him". there is no mention of him on earth after that. Even if he DID write anything, there's no way WE could have gotten it. Except maybe for the Transfiguration, but then how did the Jews get the Old Testament hundreds of years before that?
---StrongAxe on 7/13/10


Warwick,

Was man ever primitive?
---atheist on 7/13/10


Warwick- your argument is pointless, which is why it was missed.

Genesis details activities of God, not man. The creation account says "in the day that the Lord God made the earth..." Gen.2:4. That 'day' is with reference to God's creative activity, not human activity.

God neither 'defines' a day of creation, whether for man or himself. That's not being discussed in the Genesis account.

So I do not agree with you that the 'days' of creation are defined for us. Each 'day' of creation specifies what God accomplished in that period, regardless of how long it was for God or man. Time was not the issue- what happened was.

'Evening' was the conclusion of one event, 'morning' was the beginning of another.
---David8318 on 7/13/10


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Cluny, Adam appeared as a fully functioning person (his apparent 'age' changes nothing), created with all necessary information programmed in. He had no parents to teach him, this a totally supernatural act. So there is no reason why God could not have also endowed Adam with writing ability. Is there?

Consider 'toledoth'no.2

"This is the book (Hebrew written account, record) of the generations (toledoths) of Adam" Genesis 5:1. A written account needs a writer and God had Adam the witness there to write this. The only reason anyone would assume Adam could not write is that they doubt the God's power or they have an evolutionary mind-set imagining Adam too primitive to do so.

Does God say man was ever primitive?
---Warwick on 7/13/10


Cliff, you have little or no faith in God and His word. You never let me down.

As God is the creator of all matter, even the space to place this matter within, and of time, of all life, speech, music, procreation etc I doubt He would have struggled greatly to conceive of writing and the necessary impliments.

As regards "Cuneiform and Hieroglyphics" you have made an unwarranted assumption. You assume the oldest found is the oldest which existed.

What you are suggesting is that Jesus the Truth, the Alpha and the Omega who knew the end from the beginning either didn't know if Genesis was historical truth or knowing it wasn't didn't tell anyone!!!!!!

That is way-out even for you.
---Warwick on 7/13/10


Trav, just because a person is stubborn does not make my sharing the good news with them wasted. I believe that Atheist frequents here for a purpose, and can very well become a saved and born-again Christian just like other atheists have. For God is not desiring that any one perish, but that all turn to him and be saved and have a blessed life in this world and in that to come. I know that God's goodness can reach a person no matter how lost they are nor how fallow the ground has become. As long as a person still has breath, there's hope that their soul will be saved.
---Eloy on 7/13/10


Cluny, Henoch wrote Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy, and not Moses. Moses was not even born yet until 2,589 years after Adam was created. The first books document the record of Moses, but in reading them you can see that it is not written in the first person, as, "I told Pharaoh...", but instead it is written, "Moses told Pharaoh..."(Ex.5:1). Now Henoch was raptured by God when he was 365 years old, and so he could record the Scriptures of what Moses both said and did.
---Eloy on 7/13/10


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\\There is good reason to believe that God is telling us He wrote up to Genesis 2:4, Adam writing up to 5:1 and so on. Moses being the editor of these and the writer of other Scripture.\\

Nope, there's NO reason to assume that Adam could read or write, or that God actually wrote anything down at this point, or that ANYONE other than Moses wrote Genesis.

If you have such a reason to believe this, please give it.

Furthermore, what evidence (and an a priori assumption is not evidence) do you have that they were created as adults? Why could not Adam and Eve have been created YOUNG--not necessarily babes, but not necessarily adults, either?
---Cluny on 7/13/10


No one knows for sure, and if your really interested in praising God for his creation it won't matter.
The moderator is probably close in terms of a planet though we have no idea how long the
materials that created our environment were "void and without form". Genesis 1:1 only states that it was "void and without form" before God created our environment.

If the question is being asked without a genuine search for the truth you've already condemned yourself with your words which cannot hide what is really in your heart.


Satan is busy and not easily deterred.
---larry on 7/13/10


Atheist, God has given us plenty of evidence: ...some people know the truth, and some people do not. ---Eloy on 7/13/10

Your heart is good, but your time is wasted. You cannot give him eyes or ears.

Matthew 13:19
When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

Matthew 13:15
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed, lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
---Trav on 7/13/10


Atheist, God has given us plenty of evidence: but because people refuse to accept the evidence and replace it with their own ideas, therefore some people know the truth, and some people do not. Just as in a classroom, some students obtain "As", and others obtain "Fs". It is up to each individual, whether you will learn and know the truth, or else not and remain in ignorance.
---Eloy on 7/13/10


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David: God wrote with His own finger that He took six days to create the heaven and the earth. If He actually took thousands or billions of years to create as you suggest, and then implied to us that He took only six days, He is either a deceiver or He is incredibly stupid. Is that the kind of god you want to serve?
---jerry6593 on 7/13/10


Warwick, Did God create pen and paper also??(He could so therefore He must have)Your reasoning!
The Catholic "Assumption" is "God wanted it ,He could do it , therefore it was done"
You haven't a shred of evidence,while there exists Cuneiform and Hieroglyphics (early form of writing)
Jesus could and did read the scrolls,brought up in the Jewish faith, why would He disagree? So with the Apostles,107 times shows they were familiar with Genesis.
Remember Moses was also knowledgeable of Egyptian mythology,being raised as Pharaoh's son!(may or may not be a factor)True?
---1st_cliff on 7/13/10


David further to 24hr days consider Genesis 3:5 "God called the light day and the darkness He called night. And there was evening, and there was morning-the first day."

"And there was Evening", evening being the end of the "day" "light" portion of every 24hr day, on earth. "And there was morning" morning being the end of the "darkness" "night" part of every 24hr day on earth. Put them together and you get the everyday ordinary 24hr day cycle of day, then night, then day then night, then.....

To suggest that God went to these lengths to define a 24hr day on earth but it doesn't mean 24hrs is ludicrous.
---Warwick on 7/12/10


atheist God has left genealogies and time spans from Adam to Jesus. Those Christians who trust all His word therefore know how old the world is. Those Christians who do not trust all His word have a different time span, but they don't get it from Scripture, but from the changing opinions of falible, sinful humans, who were not there in the beginning.

Why do they put such trust in people who don't know everything, indeed do not even know how much there is to know? Trust in people who keep changing their minds and don't know if they will be alive tomorrow?

By faith, but not blind faith, I much prefer to trust the unchanging God who knows everything, was there, and who cannot lie.
---Warwick on 7/12/10


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1st_cliff

The point I was trying to make.
You know Christ must have read the Holy Scripture.
Even then it was known as the word of God!
And all of Genesis was there, right!
We good so far?

Dont you think? The Son of God, would have said something like.
Hey! This is not my Father or God word!

In fact! He said
O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Moses said he got it from God!
You got the right colors there, Bro?
---TheSeg on 7/12/10


I would think that if you god created creation, he would have at least left evidence on when he got this creation done.

And provide that evidence so clearly that you would all agree. But that doesn't seem to be at all to be the case.

The "when" of it is apparently just one of the thousands of details no two of you can agree upon.

And Warwick, if Adam was created with the ability to read and write, what happened to his progeny? Apparently, not only are we stuck with original sin, but now we have to go to school to learn our ABC's. De-evolution apparently is at work here...
---atheist on 7/12/10


Cluny, as Adam was created supernaturally, fully adult, there is no reason to assume he could not write, is there? Is God capable of creating Adam able to write?

Is this about proof?

As regards authorship of Genesis, isn't that God ultimately?

Consider the 'toledoths'

1) "These are the generations (toledoths-origins, records of origins) of the heavens and the earth" Genesis 2:4.

2) "this is the book of te generations (toledoths) of Adam" Genesis 5:1

There are 11 'toledoths' in Genesis. There is good reason to believe that God is telling us He wrote up to Genesis 2:4, Adam writing up to 5:1 and so on. Moses being the editor of these and the writer of other Scripture.
---Warwick on 7/12/10


Cluny "In fact Jesus quoted from Genesis 1 as fact, does that mean He lied to us? Or is Cliff making up stories? Gee that's a hard one!"

I wrote this in opposition to Cliff's idea that Genesis is nothing but falible uninspired tribal legends. That Jesus and the apostles quoted from or alluded to Genesis ch.'s 1-11 107 times, and always as historical reality, means they considered it to be so. If Jesus knew otherwise would He not tell us, He being the Truth?

Who do we trust Jesus and the inspired apostles or Cliff the antiBible activist?
---Warwick on 7/12/10


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David, you continue missing the point-Scripture was written for us, in our terms. God is eternally outside time. Therefore when He defines 'one day' (Genesis 3) He defines it for us. Does God need to define it for Himself?

The days of creation, of Exodus 19, 20 and elsewhere are 24hr days as that is what we alone live. They exist only here for us, on our blue planet.

I have never said " '1 day' with God is 24 hours " Just the opposite. You appear slow of comprehension but that is because you are locked into JW nonBiblical 'theology.'

"A day with God is not 24 hours long.." Exactly that is why the 24hr days so defined in Genesis 3:1-5 are defined for us.
---Warwick on 7/12/10


To my understanding Ps 19
The Heaven declare the Glory of GOD, And the firmanment sheweth His handy-work...
Before a written revelation from God.
The Stars defined the story only God can give.
Gen11:1
And the whole earth was on one language, and of one speech....
Ps147:4-5,Amos 5:8,

Juday-the Lion
Num2:2
---char on 7/12/10


\\God created Adam as a fully functioning adult. Is there any good reason to believe he could not write also? \\

Do you have any proof that Adam COULD and DID write?

\\In fact Jesus quoted from Genesis 1 as fact, does that mean He lied to us? Or is Cliff making up stories? Gee that's a hard one!\\

You don't actually think that Adam wrote down the opening chapters of Genesis, do you?

The Jewish tradition, which Christianity accepted, is that Moses is the author of the Torah.
---Cluny on 7/12/10


Well I disagree with you Warwick. Psalms 90:4 is discussing creation and Moses says, 'For a thousand years are in your eyes but as yesterday when it is past'. Destroys your argument which is why you find yourself at odds with God's word.

If you believe "time is irrelevant to him", then why do you insist God's day must be 24 hours long? By saying '1 day' with God is 24 hours, then you believe time is relevant to him. You constantly contradict yourself!

But that is precisely what Moses and Peter are saying- time as we understand it is irrelevant to God. The rotation of the earth around the sun is irrelevant in terms of God's count of time. For us it's not.

A day with God is not 24 hours long. God is eternal.
---David8318 on 7/12/10


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Cliff, again you claim writing did not exist from the beginning, again without any proof. God created Adam as a fully functioning adult. Is there any good reason to believe he could not write also? After all God provided His word, His Scripture from the first word for us didn't He-2 Timothy 3:16

The inspired word of God, via Paul says all Scripture is God breathed. And Paul knew of Genesis didn't he?

Was Genesis 1-11 just a story passed down orally, maybe false? Ask Jesus and the apostles who quoted from or alluded to the first 11 books of Genesis 107 times, always as historical truth.

In fact Jesus quoted from Genesis 1 as fact, does that mean He lied to us? Or is Cliff making up stories? Gee that's a hard one!
---Warwick on 7/12/10


How old is bread? Who cares? What does that have to do with salvation and the saving of our soul from going to hell? I meant spirit, your spirit either ascends to heaven or descends to hell.

Friends, we have to focus on salvation, not how old the earth is. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth, so I would say earth is "in the beginning" old...lol.
---Donna5535 on 7/12/10


David Psalm 90 is irrelevant to the length of the days of creation.

All Scripture is God breathed, breathed for us. It is worded in our terms, for us to understand. God did not write it for His own instruction did He?

2 Peter 3:8 tells us God is eternal, therefore does not live in days of any length. This is what "With the Lord, a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like a day" means David. It means time is irrelevant to him. But not to us as time was created for us-Genesis 1:3-5.

In Exodus 19 God told His people to be ready "by the third day." Whose third day? God's or mans? Obviously mans 24hr day or they would not have known when to be ready.
---Warwick on 7/12/10


/That's centuries of "oral" pass downs.(and you're arguing semantics??)'--1st_cliff on 7/12/10
You mean God didn't tell Moses to write this down? Or Moses didn't have God's approval when putting Genesis in with the other scriptures?
2Tim 3:16a All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God...
-Are you saying Genesis is not scripture?
2Pet 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.
-Are you saying Moses wasn't moved by the Spirit of God, or even God himself?
Exo 24:4a And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD...
Mat 19:4b ...Have ye not read, that he which made [them] at the beginning made them male and female, (Gen 1:27)
---micha9344 on 7/12/10


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cluny, according to the scripture 1 day to God in heaven is equal to 1000 years on earth to man, and Adam the first man was created on the sixth day. Now the year of creation is obtained from counting back the genealogies or the years from each child's birth. This will bring us precisely to Friday afternoon on April 1st, 4194 B.C. is when Jesus created Adam. Now add 6000 years for God's 1000 to 1 ratio to 4194 B.C., and the year of creation is 10194 B.C. The Bible reads that Abib, which is April, is the beginning of months, and consider that God would not cause to spring from the earth, the green grass and the green herbs in the snow of winter. Thus according to the scripture, the world was created on the night of April 1st 10194 B.C.
---Eloy on 7/12/10


But the Israelites did know what God meant by "..in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth..." (Warwick, 7/12/10).

Moses, the one God used to write the creation account knew God did not operate on a 24 hour day time frame.

Writing about creation at Psalms 90:4, Moses said, 'For a thousand years are in your eyes but as yesterday when it is past'.

God and humans have very different means of counting time. AlmightyGod is eternal, man is not.

At Ex.20:8-11 the length of a day was not on the agenda. The Israelites knew by then how long a day was. Ex.20:8-11 instructs how the working week should be constructed and to fashion it after Gods creative week.

We don't know how old the Earth is.
---David8318 on 7/12/10


Seg, God is the author of time. Recall how God made the sun stay up all night long so the Israelites could beat the Amorites in war in Joshua's day (Joshua 10:12,13)? and how God turned back the sun ten degrees for king Hezekiah (II Kings 20:10,11)? and recall how Jesus turned water into perfectly fermented and aged wine in an instant at the wedding (John 2:7-10)? Therefore God can speed up time, and slow time down, and cause time to stand still as he pleases. When we each stand in the tribunal in front of the great white throne on judgment day, he will cause time to be reversed and show how each of us lived while upon the earth.
---Eloy on 7/12/10


The Seg,**I think it cute a little God**
You are your father's son,are you still a "little boy?"
Not a "little God" perhaps a "lesser God" since he's the same nature as His Father!
As He was dieing He cried out "Abba" which is like daddy in English.Does that sound like "Almighty God???"
He said I could "ask" my Father and He would put 12 Legions of angels at my disposal "Mat.26.52.
In Roman times a legion was form 3to6 thousand soldiers!
1 Angel in 1 night killed 185,000 armed men!
2Kings 19.35.
---1st_cliff on 7/12/10


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1st_cliff
Really! Come on! Get real!
You say, you believe Christ is the son of God, right?
I think it cute a little God.

But, back to reality!
So, let me ask you. Do you think Christ read it?
And you know he did! So, if there was something wrong with it.

Let me ask you.
What do you think, he would have done.
Im asking you?
---TheSeg on 7/12/10


Warwick, **why have opinions when we have God's word**
It's your "opinion" that Gen.1 is God's word. He never wrote it. No one was there to hear the conversation.Writing was not known at that time. Moses did not come on the scene 'till 1500 BCE (and is reputed to have written it!)
That's centuries of "oral" pass downs.(and you're arguing semantics??)
No one even knows if pre flood language was Hebrew! All languages came out of the "tower of Babel".
Cuneiform ,the earliest known writing, was not Hebrew!
When your basis is "faith" you can't argue semantics!
---1st_cliff on 7/12/10


\\The world was created in the spring time at night on April 1st, 10194 B.C. (Genesis 2:2,4-6+ Exodus 12:2).
---Eloy on 7/12/10\\

Where did you come up with this date and time, Eloy?

And how?
---Cluny on 7/12/10


Seasoned enough to endure us. Young enough to mend when we are under new management.
---aka.joseph on 7/11/10


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Hey, hi. How is everybody doing?
Good, I hope. Ok, I would like to ask!
Where in the word of God is it written, the earth is 6,000 or 10,000 years old?
Or for that matter the universe is?
I don't know but somehow, it looks a little older.

I've look and look. But, I cannot find it.
So, if one of you could help me out here.

Is it possible the earth is older than what you think?
And the bible still is right? But we just can't see it?
Maybe you're putting your wisdom before God?

If God thought of a tree before he spook its name.
Is it a tree? Seems to me the answer is no, right.
Man, He's so cool.
---TheSeg on 7/12/10


Cliff why have opinions when we have God's word?

Exodus 23:10-12 "For 6 years you are to sow..but during the 7th year let the land lie unplowed and unused...6 days do your work, but on the 7th day do not work..."

We know God said they were to work 6 days and rest the 7th, because He created in 6 days, rested the 7th. If they didn't know what God meant by "..in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth..." How could they understand what "For six years you are to sow your crops" meant?

There is not one Biblical word of support for God's creation days being other than 6 ordinary 24hr days nonetheless you believe otherwise! Obviously not for Biblical reasons!
---Warwick on 7/12/10


The world was created in the spring time at night on April 1st, 10194 B.C. (Genesis 2:2,4-6+ Exodus 12:2).
---Eloy on 7/12/10


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