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Explain Isaiah 48:16

In Isaiah 48:16, who is the speaker? and do you think this is witness to what is termed "the Trinity" from the NT?

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 ---aka.joseph on 7/16/10
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In the Mishnah (Jewish Oral Traditions)it is believed that Isaiah 40 on was written directly by the Messiah.

Basically in Hebrew, taking the pen away from Isaiah (who was done) and finishing the prophecies.
---John on 9/26/10


The speaker: God.

How does the speaker of the New Testament speak? Hebrews 1:1-2 OT - God spoke to fore-fathers by the prophets, like Isaiah.
NT - God speaks by His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Better Question: Who is the source of all of God's messages? John 8:26 - "...He that sent me is true, and I (Jesus, God the Son) speak to the world those things which I have heard of Him (God the Father)."
---Dale on 9/24/10


Isaiah is writing under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost.
Christ is speaking of himself, the Father, and of the Holy Ghost.
Christ is addressing the Jewish people.
See John 18:20, John 8:42 and John 14:26.
---trey on 8/24/10


"Thus saith Jehovah, the eternal God, thy Redeemer, for He is the Holy One, that cannot deceive. The answer is yes. God is the one speaking and Jesus is God,[Trinity] Go to Matt. 23:34. "Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and Scribes. Some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city"....Though God bears long with a persecuting generation, He will not bear always, and Patience abused, turns into the GREATEST WRATH. Read all about it in, Matthew 23:34-39.+ Have a good week everyone.
---catherine on 8/22/10


Aka.joseph,

Did you mean 'writings' such as:

"Jamieson, noting that Isaiah, not Christ, is the author of the passage, stated that, 'Isaiah here speaks not in his own person so much as in that of the Messiah, to whom alone, in the fullest sense, the words apply.'" Coffman Commentaries on the Old and New Testament, Is. 48:16.

(I've never quoted from any WT publication, ever, that I'm aware of).

Or did you mean that any scriptural 'writings' (any inspired text) that is in harmony with JW 'doctrine should be off limits as reference?
---scott on 7/21/10




scott, i hold nothing against you. By WT script, I mean writings that supports JW doctrine.
---aka.joseph on 7/20/10


"Not read my blogs."aka.joseph

I've inadvertently offended you and I apologize. It was not my intention. I thought long and hard about your comments before offering what I thought might be informative and applicable.

Anyone interested in this exchange can decide for themselves if I'm quoting from some mysterious WT script...I'm not.

I will point out, however, that this is not really a 'blog' where people post their thoughts without response. This is an exchange of viewpoints, even if we don't agree.

I admire anyone that is digging into God's word rather than sitting, comatose, in front of 'The Bachelor' or whatever...

Please accept my apology. I wish you well. God bless.
---scott on 7/20/10


//Then Isaiah said,//

On Biblegateway, I checked twenty different English versions, 4 Spanish versions, 1 German version, and the Korean bible. Not one of them say anything like "then Isiah said"

//aka.joseph's question is 'who is the speaker?' //

Actually, I asked two questions. The third one is assumed. "Why or why not?"

I think Jesus is the speaker from because of the verses around it. Scott, one method that you always seem to ignore is context. The verse numbers were added to the original text to aid in translation. Then, they decided to leave them there. It left the scripture open to interpretation of single verses without context of the other surrounding verses.
---aka.joseph on 7/20/10


scott, now I know for sure that you do not read my blogs. you already have a script for what I say, no matter how I say it, and you really do not listen to anybody no matter their reason.

To say I am throwing out the baby with the bath water is ironic. It's you that keeps on denying the baby not matter what.

Why do i have to change based on the Watchtower's twisted theology?
---aka.joseph on 7/19/10


aka.joe

I'd recommend before you throw the proverbial baby out with the bath water (or disregard the entire word of God because of translational differences) that you learn a little Hebrew or Greek or at least find a good word-for-word interlinear bible (like Green's, coded with Strong's numbers, etc.).

That will give you a pretty accurate idea of the meaning behind the original text and you can decide for yourself how a particular verse should be rendered and whether a particular translation is true to the original or if they have taken theologically driven liberties.

Or there's always the 'ignorance is bliss' method. That seems to work just fine for lots of people.
---scott on 7/19/10




Jer 51:19 The portion (he) of Jacob is not like them, for he is the former (creator) of all things: and Israel is the rod of his inheritance: the LORD of hosts is his name.

Holy Bible: Easy-to-Read Version...it's even easier to dismiss. considering that know other version that I know of has "***** said..." in that verse. You know, as well as I do, that EVERY version is written to its own agenda to an extent.

Jer 51:19 Jeremiah 51:19 (English Standard Version) 19Not like these is he who is the portion of Jacob, for he is the one who formed all things,and Israel is the tribe of his inheritance, the LORD of hosts is his name.

There is no confusion as to subject verb agreement here.
---aka.joseph on 7/19/10


AKA.Joseph

We all get those days
fingers and brain going in different directions lol
Katie
---Katie on 7/19/10


Isaiah 48:16

" 'Come here and listen to me! ... from the beginning, I spoke clearly, so that people could know what I said.' Then Isaiah said, `Now the Lord [Jehovah] my master sends me and his Spirit to tell you these things.' "

Holy Bible: Easy-to-Read Version, World Bible Translation Center, 1992

Emphasis mine


Another good example of 'speaker confusion'-

"The portion of Jacob [is] not like them, for he [is] the former of all things: and [Israel is] the rod of his inheritance: the LORD of hosts [is] his name."
Jer 51:19

Did Jacob really 'form all things'? His he really the 'LORD of hosts?
---scott on 7/19/10


katie,

you are right. I was thinking of v. 12, whe I wrote that. (My fingers and brain are not always on the same page.)

Customarily around CN, we usually reference other verses around the verse in question for context. and I asked you about the verses around it. Sorry.
---aka.joseph on 7/19/10


Micha,

Throughout Matthew Henry's commentary, he takes every opportunity to interject his trinitarian point of view, that is no mystery. But aka.joseph's question is 'who is the speaker?'

Henry, rather than identifying this 'person' as the son of God as some trinitarians have asserted (and it certainly would have been the perfect opportunity for him to interject his theology IF the hebrew text could support it), identifies this individual as Isaiah.

Of course ch. 61:1 is prophetically applied to Christ (Lu. 4:21) That doesn't change Henry's conclusion that the speaker in question at 48:16 is the prophet Isaiah.

Is this evidence of a triune god made up of the Father, Isaiah and the HS?
---scott on 7/19/10


AKA...Joseph

In this verse Isaiah 48:16
This is Isaiah speaking,please reread it.Isaiah is telling the people what GOD told Isaiah to say,....Isaiah did NOT say that he was "I AM"....he was talking about GOD
Katie
---Katie on 7/19/10


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Don't be shy scott, complete the Matthew Henry post:
'The Spirit of God is here spoken of as a person distinct from the Father and the Son, and having a divine authority to send prophets. Note, Whom God sends the Spirit sends. Those whom God commissions for any service the Spirit in some measure qualifies for it, and those may speak boldly, and must be heard obediently, whom God and his Spirit send. As that which the prophet says to the same purport with this (ch. 61:1) is applied to Christ (Lu. 4:21), so may this be, the Lord God sent him, and he had the Spirit without measure.'
Awesome how the view changes when one sees the whole thing. Not a very JW view there, but you knew that already.
---micha9344 on 7/18/10


Trav,

It seems that the final speaker is Isaiah himself.

The RSV and the NIV Bibles show by quotation marks and indenting that Isaiah himself made the final comment in vs.16.

"The prophet himself, as a type of the great prophet, asserts his own commission to deliver this message: Now the Lord God (the same that spoke from the beginning and did not speak in secret) has by his Spirit sent me, v. 16." Matthew Henry Complete Commentary on the Whole Bible, Isaiah Chapter 48 verse 16.

Interestingly, The New English Bible, The Revised English Bible, and the Bible translation by James Moffatt (Mo) consider the last statement of Is. 48:16 to be spurious and leave it out of their translations entirely.
---scott on 7/18/10


Sorry,
My comment was meant for aka.joseph not Trav.
---scott on 7/18/10


Jesus has said, "'You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life, and these are they which testify of Me.'" (John 5:39) So, somehow, this scripture can be referring to Jesus. If "Me" in Isaiah 48:6 can mean Jesus, then we have "the LORD GOD" who is our Heavenly Father, "and His Spirit" who is the Holy Spirit. And if the Father sent the Holy Spirit (John 14:26), this can show the Holy Spirit has One's own Personhood. And it says

"the LORD GOD and His Spirit
Have sent Me."

So, if "Me" is Jesus, He would be another Person. It's "like Father, like Son". The son of a human is human. Jesus is the Son of God.
---Bill_bila5659 on 7/18/10


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katie,

Then can you explain to me just using that one verse how you picked Isaiah? From the time that it was...the beginning...Isaiah is I am?
---aka.joseph on 7/18/10


AKA..Joseph

All you asked for was Isaiah 48:16
But the verses around it, GOD is speaking
---Katie on 7/17/10


katie,

then, who is the speaker for the verses that surround 48:16?
---aka.joseph on 7/17/10


I believe, by going back and reading the entire chapter, that this is the pre-incarnate Son of God speaking. The last part of verse 16 is particularly helpful in determining this, "and now the LORD God, and his Spirit, hath sent me." By reading for context, this alll points to Jesus Christ the Eternal Son of the living God.
---tommy3007 on 7/17/10


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NO.
No scripture promotes ideas of a triune g - head. The devil sure gave man scriptures for such. The triune g - head is a Man - made relig - org conception idea that came from here 2nd.Cor.4 v 4 & 11 v's 14 - 15 beginning with the Man - made rcc then spread to her daughters churches.
Scriptures for those that believe in the fictitious triune g - head is, Prov.14 v 12, Matt.15 v's 9 & 14, Mark 7 v's 7 & 9, 2nd.Cor.
4 v 4 & 11 v's 14 - 15, Rev.17 v's 4 - 6, then to the lake of fire..
---Lawrence on 7/16/10


Isaiah 48:16
"Come ye near unto Me, hear ye this, I have not spoken in secret from the beginning, from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and His Spirit, hath sent Me."

This is Isaiah speaking here in this particular verse. Isaiah is telling you to wake up and listen to what God has told him to say.
Katie
---Katie on 7/16/10


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