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Saved By Grace Not Works

What does Paul mean when he says we are saved by Grace and not by works?

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David, Jesus does not have to mention Grace, because He is Jesus Christ. The writers of Scripture who mention Grace is because they are speaking about the Grace of God, Jesus.
"And the grace of God was upon Him" Luke 2:40.
"who came from the Father full of Grace" John 1:14.
"Grace and Truth came through Jesus" John 1:17.
"saw the evidence of the Grace of God" Acts 11:23.
When the writers speak of Grace, they are speaking about the unmerited favor of God. No one deserved this favor. On one deserves Christ, no one deserves Grace.
---MarkV. on 7/28/10


That's what free will does, it boast.
---MarkV. on 7/26/10

Not from a man that knows he's blown his chance at righteousness by his own obedience and must accept Gods gift to have ANY hope. That heart is very thankful and very humble.

While Im thinking on it...

Can you apply the Calvinist doctrine to the life of King Solomon? What happened to his grace?

I would love to start another thread on this. No doubt many people would have responses.
---JackB on 7/28/10


Isaiah 1:18-20

Come now and let us reason together saith the LORD though your sins be as scarlet they shall be as white as snow though they be red like crimson they shall be as wool

If ye be willing and obedient ye shall eat the good of the land

But if ye refuse and rebel ye shall be devoured with the sword for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it
---JackB on 7/28/10


If you seperate Paul and Jesus,you do not understand the New-testament..to say that Paul taught meat and Jesus taught milk,means to put it gently,that you have no understanding of laying the foundation and moving forward to maturity in God...I would seriously question if you are in fact a true Christian, are you Jehovahs witness or the like?..I do not mean to belittle you but your viewpoint is offbeam and dangerous!
---richard on 7/27/10

Sounds like someone needs a nap.
---David on 7/28/10


If you seperate Paul and Jesus,you do not understand the New-testament..to say that Paul taught meat and Jesus taught milk,means to put it gently,that you have no understanding of laying the foundation and moving forward to maturity in God...I would seriously question if you are in fact a true Christian, are you Jehovahs witness or the like?..I do not mean to belittle you but your viewpoint is offbeam and dangerous!
---richard on 7/27/10




David, Paul taught the same message that Jesus taught. ---MarkV. on 7/27/10

Jesus taught Grace?
Where does Jesus even say the word Grace?
If the teachings of Jesus and the teachings of Paul were the same teachings, why did Paul refer to his Gospel as solid food and the Gospels of Christ as milk?

By the way Mark, I do appreciate your ability to have a mature conversation with someone in which you disagree.
---David on 7/27/10


paul givs us the way to be saved without works during this age of grace
Paul's Gospel:
I Cor.15:1-4 Paul says. This is what the Lord revealed to him.
Pauls Gospel is not based on the Judaistic Law, or on the fact that Christ was just the Messiah of Israel, but its that The Messiah of Israel, The Son of God, died on that Roman Cross, shed His Blood, was buried and rose again, That is the Gospel of Grace.
---michael_e on 7/27/10


David, Paul taught the same message that Jesus taught. The gospel of Christ. The whole Bible is the Word of God, not just the words that Jesus spoke. All Scripture is Truth.
"No one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son Chooses to reveal Him" Matthew 11:27. When Jesus spoke after that, He spoke to those who could hear Him, "Come all of you who labor and heavy laden, and I will give you rest" This is a open invitation to all who hear-but phrased in such a way that the only ones who will respond to the invitation are those who are budened by their own spiritual bankruptcy and the weight of trying to save themselves by keeping the law.
---MarkV. on 7/27/10


Kimo, it means we are saved by Christ's finished works upon the CROSS. Not by what God wrote in stone and gave to Moses.

WE are Justified by HIS BLOOD and saved BY HIS LIFE.....can't get that out of stone...or rules, or do's and don't.

Grace is The death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and YOUR identification with Him....Galatians 2:20 & 21!!!

Are you a NEW CREATURE IN Christ??
---kathr4453 on 7/27/10


Please explain what this verse means in a salvation context and explain how does the Father accomplish the drawing?

John --Mark_Eaton on 7/26/10

He accomplish the drawing by believing in him.

"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. "V37

"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."V40

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life"V47

Personal belief is a most important interaction between the Father and those who seek him. God draws, Men responds or not!
---Ruben on 7/27/10




Ernest_1:

Jesus is not contradicting himself nor the rest of Scripture in John 6:44. The truth of what Jesus is saying is borne out in the very next verse:

John 6:45 "It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me"

Jesus is the Way to the Father, Jesus is the door. The Father draws us to Himself from the Word. When we hear or read the Word of God, we get the faith that is needed to come to Jesus to learn more about the Father. It's that simple. So when Jesus says that the Father draws us, its through the Word of God, spoken or written.
---Mark_Eaton on 7/27/10


\\[you]show that you are indeed a spiritual baby and don't understand the DEEPER things of God.
---miche3754 on 7/26/10 \\

And you think that YOU do, miche?
---Cluny on 7/27/10


In Eph. 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast"
---MarkV. on 7/26/10

Mark
Jesus is the Author of Eternal Life, not Paul.
That, which was taught by Christ, is the way unto Eternal Life.

What was being taught during the time when the believers in (Acts 2:42-47) were being saved?
Was it the letters of Paul?
It was not the letters of Paul my friend, those being saved were taught the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

If Paul was teaching what you think he was teaching, he goes against all that Jesus taught us in the Gospels, that which is called the Truth.
Do you know why it is called the Truth?
---David on 7/27/10


Mark Eton,

John 6:44 needs to read in the context of verses 28 to 65 for your answer. Verse 63 is interesting, "It is the spirit that quickeneth,"

Other fascinating questions to ask is about the four times in the chapter the expression, "Raise him/it up AT THE LAST DAY" is used (V. 39,40,44,54).

If he has everlasting life and is already in heaven:

1. Why does he need to raise him up at the last day, why bother to have a resurrection?

2. Why does the Lord need to return to receive them "unto myself"?

3. Why have a judgment "in the last day" (John 12:48)?
---Ernest_1 on 7/27/10


Mark E, thank you for your comments. There is no greater joy then to know who God really is. I know not everyone has a passion to know God. I know that not everyone is at the same level as another. But learning about God whom we say we love, is the most important thing we should have in our hearts. A love like no other. Not even the same love we have for our families. It is a joy for me to answer each day no matter the insults. My wife has told me to not answer those who call me names, and why waste my time. But I'm not here to change anyone. I'm here to discuss in a godly manner with whomever has the same joy as I do. I can discuss God all day long and never tire. Thanks again brother and also for the passage you gave in John 6:44..
---MarkV. on 7/27/10


If you believe otherwise, you deny the Entire book of Acts and show that you are indeed a spiritual baby and don't understand the DEEPER things of God.
---miche3754 on 7/26/10

I have heard enough of this name calling. Whoever is wisest or most mature, please answer these questions.

Please explain what this verse means in a salvation context and explain how does the Father accomplish the drawing?

John 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up on the last day"
---Mark_Eaton on 7/26/10


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Salvation is by Grace alone through faith alone. That is a truth taught by scripture.

Faith does not sit on it's hands. Because faith acts in love. Love works to help others and to avoid hurting others.

So Paul and John points out many times that those who love and are saved do works as the result of their love for others. So yes we are saved by Grace alone but we will work in love to others because we are saved.
---Samuel on 7/26/10


The Bible says that salvation has appeared unto all man By Christ. Thats no mystery. The Disciples told/preached to thousands that chose to believe before they received the Holy Ghost.
If you believe otherwise, you deny the Entire book of Acts and show that you are indeed a spiritual baby and don't understand the DEEPER things of God.

Some confuse LEARNING & GROWING with initial salvation.
One cannot learn the DEEPER things of God without the Holy Ghost and one cannot be saved unless they believe Christ came to save all man and reconcile them back to God. This part is NOT a mystery and MAN can indeed choose to believe Christ saved him or not.

There are Babies on this site that have no understanding BUT pretend they know.
---miche3754 on 7/26/10


David, you said,
"You are correct, we must believe in Him or you will perish. Now we are getting somewhere!If you must do something to gain Eternal Life, then it could not be "unmerited"."

David the ability to come to Christ is given by God. Without that ability you will never come to Christ. In Eph. 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast"
And in 1 Cor. 4:7 He says, "For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?
That's what free will does, it boast.
---MarkV. on 7/26/10


JackB,
great posts...Amen Brother!!

Those who believe different than what you just stated Deny the entire book of Acts.

They pick out scripture but have no understanding or context of who and what the scripture is speaking to.

They don't understand that the scripture they post is meat and they are still on milk and that is why they do not understand and ignore and entire book in the Bible.
---miche3754 on 7/23/10


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You are correct, we must believe in Him or you will perish.---MarkV. on 7/23/10

Now we are getting somewhere!
If you must do something to gain Eternal Life, then it could not be "unmerited".

Jesus clearly says in (John 14:21) that to gain the favor of God, we must keep the Lord's commandments, We must do what he tells us to do.
"All that call upon the name of the Lord will be saved"
But Who is it Mark that can call him Lord?
(Luke 6:46)
"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?
How can you "Do" without Doing anything?

Mark who does Jesus call his family in (Mark 3:35)?
"Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother."
---David on 7/24/10


Jack B, people can resist the message of God, and have for centuries but they cannot resist God. Acts 7:51 is talking about Israel. They were always resisting the Spirit's messengers and their message. Check Jesus sermon in Matt. 23:13-39. They rejected the message of the messengers but only the Elect obtained the message, Romans 11:7. People today reject the Spirit's messengers and the message. They hear but cannot understand. But to those that did not reject the message the writer says, "God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the Truth. To this He called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ" 2 Thess. 2:13,14.
---MarkV. on 7/24/10


Jack B 2: you agree that all of the lost are dead spiritually until the Holy Spirit works on their hearts, and if you believe that, why do you say they have a choice? Dead people do not have choices. They are dead. How can they have faith? How can they feel they have sinned against God, while dead, without the Holy Spirit convicting their hearts of sin? What you are saying is that a spiritually dead people can hear, understand, see, have faith, feel a conviction of his rebellion, while dead?
"The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is "not able to understand them" because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Cor. 2:14.
---MarkV. on 7/24/10


Miche, spiritual babies? which is better then some other name. But logic tells us that the Truth has not appeared to everyone in the whole world. The very reason we send out missionaries. Millions in China along have never heard of Christ. That is just one country. Just in two provinces of Anhui and Shanxi as of 2007 there are about 95 million people where almost all of them have never heard of Christ. The same holds true for the provinces of Shaanxi, Shanghai and Tianjin, who have about 65 million people, most have never heard of Jesus either, and I am talking about only five provinces out of 31. Our Church has five missionaries there now. So to say the whole world has heard of Christ is false.
Truth is hard for some here to except.
---MarkV. on 7/24/10


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JackB It is an inevitable corollary of God's election of those to be saved (without having the choice to accept) that He deliberately selects those who are to be damned, and they will have, and indeed never did have, any chance to avoid this fate.

One may ask why God needs to "justly" "punish" those who "disobey" Him by behaving as God directs.

We are told that is to demonstrate God's Sovereignty. What a weak God, if He has to resort to such cruelty to prove His Sovereignty! And to whom? Himself? Perhaps He has grave doubts about His sovereignty?
---alan8566_of_uk on 7/24/10


To my understanding,
YOUR works will not save you-Only the Word of God-believed-and the Act of God by His Spirit through you.
One can believe they are doing the work for God and yet continue to boast of the work-Boasting nullifies.(Rom 3:21-31)
God-through His Spirit-confirming His Word-Works through you.
He shines the light of truth-His desire, and your desire changes to His Will. He alone gets the glory.
There is also a ramnent-Rom 11 What then? Israel hath not obtained [that] which he seeketh for, but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded(According as it is written), God hath given them the spirit of slumber,eyes that they should not see, and ears that they shold not hear" unto this day...
Rom 8-9
---char on 7/24/10


JACK - ACTS 7:51
YE STIFFNECKED and UNNCIRCUMCISED in HEART and EARS,Ye do alway resist the Holy Ghost as your father did, so do ye. ( This has to do with the JEWISH people and there fathers from Egypt, that they are not save. Except for a remnant of ,-- REFER BACK around ACTS 7:36
Next go to ACTS 7:53 WHO HAVE RECEIVD THE LAW by the disposition of angels,and HAVE NOT KEPT IT, ( They had the LAW and disobeyed it, They were not given new HEARTS or EARS to HEAR it,THERE UNSAVE
JOHN 10:27 MY SHEEP HEAR my voice ,and I know them and they follow me
( The SAVE have EARS to HEAR and they FOLLOW they don't resist.)
---RICHARD on 7/24/10


Jack B, you gave a good Scripture when you gave,
"2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction."
Those who deny that the Lord bought them are teaching a false doctrine. They were claiming to be Christains. He did not buy them because of something they did. He bought them because He desired to buy them, and He did not buy them all. They were slaves doing what was normal for them. God reached out and said, you, you, and you, I want, and He bought them. The others remained slaves to sin. See similar passages, Deut. 32:5,6.
---MarkV. on 7/25/10


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All men are dead until the Holy Ghost works on their heart. You are right about that, Mark. But what you refuse to believe is that man can and indeed DOES resist the HOly Ghost.

It is written inscripture that men have done so, even those bought by His blood.

Acts 7:51 ... ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Gal 6:7 Be not deceived, God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
---JackB on 7/23/10


It will never be anything other than grace. Works are a result of that grace.

Im still trying to figure out why some cant grasp the concept that maybe Gods sovereign will is to give us a choice and let us make the decision for ourselves.

Obviously the Lord doenst even see it as a threat to his sovereignty or else He wouldnt tell us to choose.

Luke 13:34
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

Shows Gods desire to nuture us and our ability to say "NO!"
---JackB on 7/23/10


Unfortunately people who try to live holy lives by faith through grace are at times accused of believing their works save them. However, works have always been a great part of Christianity. Such Scriptures as 1 Peter 1:16 ("Because it is written:'Be ye holy as I am holy'") and "Faith without works is dead" can be interpreted in no other way. The word repentance used from the Old Testament through the end of the New Testament makes it obvious that works are necessary although they do not save us.
If you have been hurt by people who were impatient with you in teaching Truth, this does not mean you should allow satan to convince you that works are unimportant.
---chria4685 on 7/23/10


David ignore the spiritual babies and keep teaching the truth.

To believe Christ died for you IS accepting the hand that God already has extended out to all man through His Son, Christ.

Some are so immature in the spirit that they do not understand that when God say all he means all. They also do not understand the truth about salvation. That appeared to ALL mankind.

Keep teaching. Don't use up your posts trying to convince them of the truth. Let God reveal it to them by people posting the truth. Maybe one day they will get it. I hope and pray they will.
---miche3754 on 7/23/10


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David, you said,
"But...(John 3:16) also tells us of a Grace that Saves.
We must believe in him, if we are not to perish.
If you do not believe in him, you will perish.
You see, by that statement, God set in place a condition for Eternal Life."
You are correct, we must believe in Him or you will perish. But unbelievers do not believe in Him, they cannot, they are not able,
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is "not able to understand them" because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Cor. 2:14. They are dead in sin.
By God's grace, (unmerited favor) the natural person is brought to spiritual life.
---MarkV. on 7/23/10


Paul is "the apostle of the Gentiles" in accordance with the ushering in of the new "dispensation of the grace of God" to Gentiles, just as is taught in Eph 3:1 12. Israel, and her program, have been temporarily set aside, as Paul teaches in Rom. 11:1 25. God has now, according to the revelation of "the mystery of Christ" given to Paul, turned to Gentiles and is accomplishing a purpose, He has with us, which He kept secret "in ages and generations past."
---michael_e on 7/23/10


To my understanding, -the Word of Yehovah-Yeshua-saves you.
If you believe in His death and resurrection-then-repentance brings you into remission.
The Holy Spirit is God-Himself-confirming and bearing witness of His Word-Jesus Christ.
Jn10:30,
Lk 24:45
Then opened He their understanding, that they might understand the Scriptures, And said unto them, 'Thus it is written and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name among all nations, beginning at Jersalam.And [ye]are witnesses of these things. And, behold [I]send the promise of MY Father upon you,

[the gift of pneuma hagion-Joel 2:28,Is 44:3,Ez 36:24-29]
---char on 7/23/10


David, Grace is a gift not deserved.---Mark_V. on 7/22/10

I agree Brother,
God so loved the world that he gave us his only Begotten Son.
We did not deserve such a Gift and we did nothing to receive it. (Romans 3:10-18)
And yet, God gave us this Gift.
I agree ....Totally Unmerited.

But...(John 3:16) also tells us of a Grace that Saves.
We must believe in him, if we are not to perish.
If you do not believe in him, you will perish.
You see, by that statement, God set in place a condition for Eternal Life.

God does the very same thing in (Acts 2:38)
The Holy Spirit is also a Gift by Grace.
Don't we need to do something to receive this Gift?
---David on 7/23/10


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JackB: "Those who do not believe are those who are seeking to be righteous by the law."

I disagree. Those who do not believe are those who think that they are above the Law. It is they who reject God's law and substitute their own man-made counterfeits. These were the ones whom Jesus reprimanded.
---jerry6593 on 7/23/10


Jack B, the answer to your question is yes, it comes from God. Do you remember when Jesus said, that we (believers) are to love God with all of our hearts, soul, and mind, and to love our neighbor? That was a commandment from the Lord. And as believers we want the best for everyone. We have no idea who the Elect are. They could be so terrible today, and tomorrow be saved by God. Only God knows who will be save. He has them written in the book of life. They are not been added as time goes by, they are written already from the foundation of the world. As we already know, not many are going to heaven. If God wanted to save the whole world, everyone's name would be on that book. But as Christians we do not believe in a Universal Salvation.
---MarkV. on 7/22/10


Before justification, a person is unrighteous or unacceptable to God. After justification he or she is regarded as rghteous or acceptable to Him.
This change happens only through God' grace.
Grace means unmerited favor. The person is justified through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.
What about works? Many Christians say that all we have to do is "to believe"
downplaying works or obedience. In Romans, Paul attaches great importance to
keeping the moral law and Jesus does the same.Paul's point: although obedience to the law is not the means of justification the person who is justiied by faith still keeps the law of God, out of appreciation for the gift of salvation received.
---Pierre on 7/22/10


It is because of God (Who is love-1Jn4 and All knowing-Mat 6:32) mercy and Grace for His Children-His Word became Flesh-died for sin in our place and His Spirit is Here with us Now-to confirm His Word in comparison to another(Satans' word).
1 Cor 2,Acts 2:38
It is because of this very love he has blinded some not to see for their own innocense.(Spirit of slumber)
Rom11(all)-Phi 2:10
It is because of this love he sent His son for the lost.
Heb 8
---char on 7/22/10


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Mark , if I may ask...

Do you believe the love the Christians hold in their heart for every man, woman and child on this earth and our desire that the world know the truth of Jesus and be saved comes from God or satan?

Because if its not Gods will that all men be saved, why do we as his children hold that love in our heart?

Is man more loving than God now?
---JackB on 7/22/10


To my understanding-there is nothing new under the sun.

Satan lead One third of the (Angels-sons of God) to rebellion. The enemy continues to deceive-(Adam-mankind).
There is only One who is abosulte truth-God Himself.
He has witnessed of Himself-(forever-Qudem)to and for His children-through His Word-Yeshua.
There are those not deceived from the beginning-stood-and they still stand.
There are those who are-and still must chose.
---char on 7/22/10


You claim that (and yet provide no direct scripture):

1. Man will never accept Jesus Christ of his own free will

2. God forces his way into the hearts of men so that they will accept Christ

When are you going to supply these scriptures, Mark?

Btw everytime you take a words such as "any" "all" and "world" and change their meanings to fit your church doctrine it makes you look weak in your defense of the 'truth'. And that doesnt apply to just you but anyone who does it.

There is such a double standard in Calvinism when it comes to Gods sovereignty its almost laughable.
---JackB on 7/22/10


Doesnt it seem so simple, Francis?

"For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe."

We preach to save those that believe.

Those who do not believe are those who are seeking to be righteous by the law.

This is the same reason why Israel is blind to Jesus Christ and why they hated Him so much. They didnt seek righteousness by faith. (Romans 9:30-33)
---JackB on 7/22/10


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1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the WHOLE WORLD.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Christ is the propitiation for sin for the WHOLE WORLD, he is the propitiation everyone. The only reason why everyone is not saved, is because evryone does not believe.
---francis on 7/22/10


Rev. 3:20, God is speaking to the Loadicean Church verse 14. There was not a single believer to answer the knock on the door. God ask them to repent. "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the Churches" not one in that church could hear what God was saying. Any other interpretation is not found in the context of those passages.
Spiritually dead people cannot hear the word of God. He must be saved by Christ if at all. "Sinful man stands in need, not of inducements or asistance to save himself, but precisely of saving, and Jesus Christ has come not to advise, or urge, or woo, or help him to save himself, but to save him. Faith comes from hearing, and not everyone hears for not everyone gets faith.
---Mark_V. on 7/22/10


If Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world, then no one should be going to hell. And as we know many have. The interpretation of 1 John 2:2, is wrong. He is the propitiation for the believers John was talking to, and any other believers not with them. This passage is not teaching Universal salvation.
2 Peter 3:9, is another miss interpretation. Peter is talking to the beloved, (believers) "is longsuffering toward "us" Since the whole passage is about God destroying the wicked.
Jack B's question,"what is He waiting for?" The "any" refers to those whom the Lord has chosen and will call to complete their redemption.
---Mark_V. on 7/22/10


Romans 4 Teaches us about Abraham's faith and how because of his faith in Gods promises, he was counted as righteous in the eyes of God.

The Holy Ghost is telling us here also that it was written for our sakes so that if we exercise the same faith that we also can be counted as righteous.

And our faith gives us access to the grace in which we now stand. (Romans 5:2)

Just because we choose to accept a gift by faith doesnt mean that we suddenly deserve it any more. We are receiving something we dont deserve. It is still a gracious act.

And offering a gift to someone who believes you hate them, will change the way they feel about you in their heart.

The goodness of God leads us to repentance.
---JackB on 7/22/10


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Titus 2
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world,
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ,
14 Who gave himself for us...

1 John 2
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

2 Peter 3
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
---JackB on 7/22/10


2 Peter 3
9 ... longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


He's not willing that any of us should perish so Hes patiently enduring our sins... He is waiting for something from us.... ..

What exactly is God waiting for?

Revelation 3

20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churchES.

Not just 1 church. All 7 of them.
---JackB on 7/22/10


David, Grace is a gift not deserved. The lost who rebel against God do not believe in God, and the only way they will believe is if God has grace on them in order for them to believe.
"And when he desired to come to Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him, and when he arrived, he greatly "helped those who had believed through Grace" Acts 18:27. We are also justified freely by God's grace. Because of His kindness towards us He justifies us when we did not deserve to be justified.
"Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" Romans 3:24.
---Mark_V. on 7/22/10


Ehhh theres a verse on the tip of my tongue..

It says something to the effect of when we have done all the is required of us, we are still unworthy because we have only done that which was commanded of us. Someone help please.

The Bible tells us not to be high-minded but to remain in His goodness or else we too might be cut off. The Jews made this mistake.

I believe thats a warning to never believe we have earned our salvation by anything we have done.

Its solely by putting our faith in Jesus Christ. When the Holy Spirit comes into our heart and changes us for the better that is God at work. We can never take credit for that. We can only praise Him for it.
---JackB on 7/22/10


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The works of the law is the thermometer by which you can tell if you are indeed "on fire" for the Lord.
---jerry6593 on 7/22/10


The law is a performance system, where receipt of blessing is conditional, being based on proper adherence to a prescribed set of standards and expectations. It is the "If-Then" principle to Israel in Ex 19:5

Grace is a free gift, it's being given a free, undeserved gift.It is "the free gift" principle of Rom. 5:15. Law does not give anyone a gift: it requires performance to be given to it. Grace, gives the gift to us-"The gift by grace" It's a gift,and it's ours. What we would have to work for to gain under the law God gives to us as a free gift by His Grace.
---michael_e on 7/21/10


Hes saying we are saved because of him! Him alone! God that is!
God saved you! God is the one who is doing it! God is forgiving the world its sins!
We just cant believe this! We cant understand this! This just cant be!
See even you cant believe this!
So, we judge! And therefore, we will be judge!

Yea, thats pretty much it.
Did I leave anything out?
Let see?
Its done!
His did it!
Its for all of you!
Youll hold up the law, so be judge by it!
You wont believe it. Even though youre doing it!
And you cant stop yourselves, from doing it!
Guilty!

He who cannot forgive, will (something)-given!
How do you forgive someone, who spits in your face?
---TheSeg on 7/21/10


If I have this grace, why havent I overcome the world?---Kimo on 7/19/10

Kimo
Many have been taught that Grace is the unmerited favor of God, and if you are living your life according to this definition of Grace, this is why.

There is an unmerited Grace, but it is not the Grace that saves you.
(John 3:16) speaks of both.

---David on 7/20/10


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1st. John 5:5,
"Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" When you understand this Scripture and its the significance, the world and its cares will grow dim in your eyes.
---mima on 7/20/10


'If I have this grace, why havent I overcome the world?'--Kimo on 7/19/10
You haven't overcome the world?
1Jn 5:4-5 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
Are you in this world, yet not of this world?
1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
Are you not a fellow heir with Christ, adopted child of God?
Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs, heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ, if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together.
---micha9344 on 7/19/10


David, very interesting, I have never heard it put that way before.
If I have this grace, why havent I overcome the world?
---Kimo on 7/19/10


david

god did not create satan. god created LUCIFER but his beauty went up his head & he became arrogant wanting to be ABOVE everthing else. he wanted to have his own followers, so he deceived 1/3 of the angels. He made HIS own choice. so that is why he is called satan
---mike on 7/19/10


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Grace is the answer. Legalism is the enemy. Victory in the Christian life is obtained in the same manner as salvation: by appropriating, receiving, believing-not by works.
---michael_e on 7/19/10


The issue of Grace and merit is at the heart of the historic debate between Roman Catholic theology and protestantism. A major declaration of the Reformation was "sola gratia" salvation is by Grace of God alone. Believers bring no merit of their own before the judgment seat of God, but rest soley on God's mercy and Grace. Merit is defined as that which is earned or deserved. Justice demands that merit be given where it is deserved. Merit is something due a person for a performance, if it is not received, an injustice is committed. The only merit we have at our disposal is the merit of Christ. The merit of Christ comes to us by Grace through faith. Grace is the unmerited favor of God. It is an action of God towards us.
---MarkV. on 7/19/10


I hit 'submit reply' too soon. If you truly believe, you will be saved and you will grow...some quickly...some vert slow. Nevertheless, you are going to bare fruit.
---aka.joseph on 7/18/10


Kimo
Satan is one of Gods most powerful creations, and we are but mere men, with no hopes of defeating him without the power of God in us.
Only Those who overcome the world will be Saved, to do this we must overcome Satan, and without Grace this would be impossible.(Matthew 19:25-26)

It is very important to understand what Grace is.
Grace bascially means that God is with You, that you are in Gods favor.

When you are in the Grace of God, there is a Power in that Grace, that being the only Power that can defeat Satan who causes you to sin.

1 John 4:4)
"You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world."

---David on 7/19/10


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...for salvation its Faith and Faith alone, and then when that happens, God begins to work in and through us... ---michael_e

Luk 8:14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
Luk 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23 meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Jas 2:17 ...faith being alone, if it hath not works (fruit of the Spirit), is dead.
---aka.joseph on 7/18/10


Grace is God making up for how we can not do what we need. He knows how we in our sinning are in trouble, not being able to do what is right unless He corrects us. And we do not deserve to be forgiven, but He forgives us, anyway. Jesus on the cross already forgave us, way back then, by desiring in His heart that we all be forgiven. So, grace can make us like this, also, so we have so much in common with God, and this makes us compatible with Him so we can spend all eternity with Him: "Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment, because as He is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17)
---Bill_bila5659 on 7/18/10


One reason why we keep coming back to this quistion is because se people do not know what works is. To some works is obedience.
Some really do believe that if you are an active evangelist that you are seeking salvation by works. But no, reaching others is what christians do.
Some think that if you are obedient to God in everything, then you are seeking salvation by works. But No, obedient to all that God says is what christians do.

Now here is the kicker: Some christians are pew warmers, because they do not know what it means to be a christian. They are limited in outreach, obedience and other good works.
---francis on 7/18/10


Kimo,
Some people believe that salvation is based on what you do: baptism, sacraments, church attendance, charitable giving etc.
Abraham did lots of good things in his day for God but Paul said that he was not saved by what he did but because he simply believed God's promises. Romans 4:3-5. Paul says that if he was saved because of what he did it would be an earned reward not a gift. A gift cannot be earned (works), it is given by the grace of the giver. All the receiver has to do is accept it (by faith.) So it is with salvation: But the gift of God is eternal life Romans 6:23.
---Bruce5656 on 7/18/10


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It is The Holy Spirit working within you-
Your Mind renewed with the Word of God.
So...there is no boasting--by you--for you.

It is God who gets All Glory and Honor.
---char on 7/18/10


Weve come these 2000 years and were still reveling in this same Gospel that was begun by the apostle Paul, and that is its by faith and Gods Grace alone. Im talking about salvation. Im not saying youre saved by Faith + Nothing, and then you just go on and drift. No, but for salvation its Faith and Faith alone, and then when that happens, God begins to work in and through us, and He doesnt expect us to become tremendous saints over night.
---michael_e on 7/18/10


What Paul is telling us is that salvatuin is a gift! Nothng we can do (WORKS) to earn it.
However there is plenty for us to do (WORKS) to show Jesus that we appreciate His gift to us.
---Pierre on 7/18/10


No one can be saved by WORKS! The Bible is emphatic about that point. However we are told we are going to be judged by our WORKS and those who refused to do God's will even if they professed to be Christians and did many wonderful WORKS - will not enter His kingdom. Jesus made this very plain in His sermon on the Mount, Matthew 7:21-23. That last verse is a very tragic one when Jesus says to professed but disobedient Christians, "I never knew you, depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
---Ernest_1 on 7/18/10


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Everyone of us have ( past tense) SInned at one time or another. Thatone single sin whcih we did, deserved death. No matter how strictly we followed the law after we know the law, that fact is we have sinned at one time or another and that one sin deserved death.

But God loves us in that even while we were in our sinned his son took our death.
Nothing we can do, can bring about our salvation. We MUST if we want to be saved accept the righteousness of Jesus.


That is grace. That Jesus gave us life, when we deserved death.
---francis on 7/17/10


Grace is right. Godly works is being baptized, Bible reading, witnessing etc.
When scripture talked about not by works, it's talking about a persons own self righteous works to give them place boast & brag which is Not Godly.
---Lawrence on 7/17/10


By grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:8-10 This is what Paul means that we are saved by Grace, and not by works.
---Kimbe7395 on 7/17/10


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