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Listen To Christian Music

At church, people have mentioned that we should AVOID things, like music, that was created by Christians who were either "living sinful lives all along", or "later fell into sin and were unrepentant". I think that the music is beautiful and glorifies God. Comments?

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 ---Sag on 7/22/10
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I haven't stopped going to church.

However, I have stopped going to some of the church-sponsored activities. Many of them are of "questionable" value. In My Humble Opinion (IMHO).

For example, in order to have a Church Retreat, WHY does the church need to "rent" an expensive resort, and then charge every person who attends a few hundred dollars? The Bible doesn't say that we have to fellowship at a pricey resort.

The same goes for churches and their expensive decorations, furniture, light fixtures, etc.

These might be things that drive people, like Catherine, out of the churches.
---Sag on 8/13/10


Catherine: In all due respect.You said God took you out of the church. I don't believe that. The church is a place for believers to fellowship with other believers. To be blessed and to be a blessing. When things seem to be going wrong with our leaders we are to pray for them. Not stop going to church. The tv /computer/ radio is not enough. You need to be under leadership( a pastor) to feed you and teach you. Some place you can be grounded and rooted. Grow in the Lord. We never stop growing in Christ,beloved. Seems to me you have been hurt in the church. You may be angry at God and others in the church. Please pray on this and really listen to what God is saying to you.
---Robyn on 8/12/10


"God took me out of the CHURCH!" (catherine)

No. Satan did. Why did you listen to him, a impostor?

Only Satan tells people not to attend and celebrate the Divine Liturgy with our believers, but just stay home and be a nice little Christian.

I know you would like to believe that the little voices in your head (which you have told us many times) that you converse with is God, but if the voices took you out of Church, then they are demonic voices. Either that, or you have some medical issues that need to be address.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 8/11/10


God took me out of the CHURCH! Too much unbelief. Now, I have church all the day long, just me and Jesus....Going to church don't make you anything, except a hypocrite, if the living God don't know you. How do you worship God the other six days in the week? God is looking for worshipers not church goers, my friend. Are you a worshiper? There is a BIG difference. I have Scriptures to back up what I say, too.
---catherine on 8/11/10


catherine....How long since you went to church?
---KarenD on 8/11/10




Well, somebody is stupid, because, God loves music. I will not go to a church without music. If the person of the living God is in this church the music can be the most awesome part of the service. Everybody is jumping around. I serve a living God, man, He is alive, not dead, alive, don't just sit in church acting like a bunch of dead folks. Move around.....Please note: Unless God knows you your prayers and worship are an abomination to Him.
---catherine on 8/11/10


Ruben, I LIVE in the Risen Christ. I don't need to experience Good Friday every year, or every week or every day at mass.

We don't experience His Death by meditating on His sufferings, ..

---kathr4453 on 8/10/10

Then you are not following scripture,

"For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you,"

"For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death (I)until He comes."

And again in heaven it reads " And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain .

This is in heaven, if fact He is call in Rev a Lamb 28 times and just once the Kings of Kings and Lords of Lords
---Ruben on 8/10/10


Ruben, TODAY I LIVE in the Risen Christ. I don't need to experience Good Friday every year, or every week or every day at mass.

We don't experience His Death by meditating on His sufferings, but by His Risen Life in us....

Not by Meditation, which could be New Age, or even as the Hindu's do, buy by walking in the Spirit we don't give way to the flesh...
---kathr4453 on 8/10/10


But Ruben, that is not what Paul meant...I believe if you read 1st Corinthians 15 atleast vs 1-20 or so you will see the point is the risen Christ. You see, if there was no resurrection, you would still be in your sin, regardless of how much Christ suffered.
---kathr4453 on 8/7/10


Kathr,

Yes, Paul also taught a risen Christ, but he taught also a crucufied Christ. Look what Rev 5:6 says " A lamb like slain".
But before you celebrate a Resurrection you would need to go thru a Good Friday!
---Ruben on 8/8/10


Ruben, I'm not sure what your first point was. but I'll go to the next.

Christ crucified. I know the RCC still keeps Jesus on the cross. I also see nuns wearing a cross, with Jesus still on the cross.

But Ruben, that is not what Paul meant...I believe if you read 1st Corinthians 15 atleast vs 1-20 or so you will see the point is the risen Christ. You see, if there was no resurrection, you would still be in your sin, regardless of how much Christ suffered.
---kathr4453 on 8/7/10




kathr4453 * Ruben, reformers long before(200) those you mentioned, Wycliffe, Hess etc, did not believe that.

Wycliffe, Hess did not but from Luther, Calvin and before did...

kathr4453 * The Gospel Paul and the Apostles preached was the RISEN Christ...hat He rose from the dead..1st Cor 15:1-4.

But Paul and the Apostles also preach:

But we preach Christ crucified,(1 Cor 1:23)

For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.( 1 Cor 2,2)

"Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God on this behalf." ( 1 Peter 4:16)

"stood a Lamb as it had been slain,'( Rev 5:6)
---Ruben on 8/6/10


Good morning Ruben. I see you cannot separate Mary from the RCC Gospel.

Ruben, reformers long before(200) those you mentioned, Wycliffe, Hess etc, did not believe that.

Whether modern christian music, or movies to UP_DATE and improve witnessing ( our way)I have a problem with anyway.

Passion Plays STARTED with the RCC, leading to and maybe for the purpose of perpetuating hatred for the Jews.

You will not find any such going on's before then.

The Gospel Paul and the Apostles preached was the RISEN Christ...hat He rose from the dead..1st Cor 15:1-4.

The FIRST person who SUFFERED for obedience was Abel, being murdered by Cain.

OT saints were sawn in half, tortured etc for their faith!
---kathr4453 on 8/6/10


The reformers laid down their lives PROTESTING the RCC Gospel. This is what Protestant means to PROTEST Catholocism.

---kathr4453 on 8/5/10

Reformers from Luther, Calvin,Zwingli and Wesley all taught the perpetual virginity of the Mother of Christ... So how is that laying down their life "Protesting" the RCC gospel?
---Ruben on 8/5/10


Kathr, for your information, I'm a born again Christian, I'm not a Catholic, Calvinist, Baptist, or any other denomination. The RCC has a lot wrong with it. I have spoken many times of many of those. The blog here is about Music and someone mentioned movies. It is not about bashing Catholics. If you want to do that make a blog for it. Put your name and say, I want to bash Catholics.
Because that is what you are doing. Sag answered very kindly and opened his heart to all of us. The discussions were about movies and songs, no one mentioned Mary. But you saw an opportunity to bring her in, for your own twisted purposes. That is what they are twisted, and inpure.
---MarkV. on 8/5/10


The Passion of the Christ by MEL GIBSON is the RCC Gospel.

If we know the Gospel, the only Gospel, we know the counterfeit Gospels.

Much of the movie ADDED (took license) many RCC traditional scenes. These were the 100 questions asked in the book..WHY? The answer: It is the RCC Gospel.

The reformers laid down their lives PROTESTING the RCC Gospel. This is what Protestant means to PROTEST Catholocism.

I wish you had read on the Rapidnet site "the Passion of the Christ" by REFORMERS.

Calvin, a reformer would have rejected the movie!

I know of NO Calvinistic Churches here, and Yes MarkV...I have many Calvin friends( not neo-calvin)..refuse to attend.
---kathr4453 on 8/5/10


Miche, bringing Mary into the discussion serves no purpose. It was uncall for. Just because it is Ruben, you want to go at him because he is Catholic. You need to stop acting like Kathr who brings up Calvin for everything, and accuses me of never leaving the Catholic Church just because of how I answered. What you are doing is eating from the same plate she eats from. Ruben has not mention Mary at all. It was kathr who brought dirt to the discussion when she said,
"The Movie was as much about Mary as CO-REDEMPTRESS as it gets. Also the crooked cross at the end is a satanic symbol!!!" Always looking for more dirt to throw at others. Even Sag has answered very kindly. Do the right thing Miche for the glory of God.
---MarkV. on 8/5/10


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Miche, and everyone reading, I apologize for making a big mistake.
I have just finished answering you on this blog and find that I made a great error in judgment. As I read your reponse I though you too were making a call on Mary, and so on Catholics.
But I am wrong and ask you to forgive me. You did say that when you saw the movie no where was Mary mentioned. That is very True. I was to quick to judge your answer and apologize. It will not happen again. You did not mention anything against the RCC as I thought you had. Again my apologizes, please forgive me. I just saw the name Mary and misjudge your answer because of what Kathr had written and she was wrong to bring Mary's name up. You are not eating from her plate. Please forgive me.
---MarkV. on 8/5/10


I know in the OT that the priests did not do the sacrifices for sin like Christ was done. But we must remember that what happened to him was professied.

"But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him, and with his stripes we are healed" Isaiah 53:5

I didn't see where Mary was shown as co-redemtress in the movie. Maybe, If I can handle it spiritually, I should watch it again to see.

I know that it does portray Christ's last days and what he went through for our sins.

I know that it shows I must put on his death so that he can live within me.
That I must crucify my flesh as he did.
---miche3754 on 8/4/10


Ruben, I absolutely agree in our identification in the fellowship of His sufferings. Ruben, when I look at the sacrifices in the OT, all a shadow and pattern of what God revealed in Christ, I do not see the High Priests beating to the point of death the lambs first before laying them on the alter, stating that atonement is in suffering rather than blood. Kathr

Does not the Bible speak of both his Suffering and his Blood? Does not both go hand in hand?
---Ruben on 8/4/10


Ruben, I absolutely agree in our identification in the fellowship of His sufferings. Ruben, when I look at the sacrifices in the OT, all a shadow and pattern of what God revealed in Christ, I do not see the High Priests beating to the point of death the lambs first before laying them on the alter, stating that atonement is in suffering rather than blood.







---kathr4453 on 8/4/10


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I listen to people and what they have to say. In the end I will pray and ask God to show me the truth. Only God's Word is truth. It will stand forever and ever. People minds are flighty and unstable. I don't take to heart much of what people say. Music was designed for our enjoyment. Satan stole what rightfully, belonged to God's kids.Took it and made it lewd and sinful. I don't listen to that type.
I listen to soothing,sanctified music. Hymns and church music. Instrumental music is very soothing. I always seek something soothing to my spirit. Nothing that makes me want to do evil and stirs my spirit, the wrong way. If the music irritates, the words are bad and disrespectful. I cut it off!
---Robyn on 8/3/10


We must remember we are not saved by Christ's suffering, however He did suffer.
---kathr4453 on 8/3/10

Suffering plays a big part in our life:

Luke 14:27 - Jesus said, "whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple."

Romans 8:17:-"And if children, then heirs, heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ, if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."

2 Corinthians 1:5-7:-"For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ."
---Ruben on 8/3/10


MarkV, just look up the site. It's Rapidnet. They are Calvin. So was Charles Spurgeon...who believed we should witness to ALL lost souls. We are God's FISHERS OF MEN!!!

I bet even Calvin himself would have a fit at seeing such r rated violence and calling it Sanctified by God.

Blessed are those who DON'T SEE but Believe...

We walk by FAITH not by sight.
---kathr4453 on 8/3/10


I agree with JackB, MarkV, and miche3754 in regards to 'The Passion'. I could read the Bible, commentaries, and other books about this, but seeing it drove it home, made it personal.
When I take cummunion, I will picture His body being whipped and tore as I take the bread, and His spilt blood on the ground and splattering the soldier with the spear as I take the cup.
It truly puts me in rememberance of His suffering in my stead so that I may be right with God in His stead. It always brings a tear to my eye.
Luke 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake [it], and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
---micha9344 on 8/3/10


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Kathr, by your answers I know you are not telling the truth, you mention you have Calvinistic friends. Sorry but that does not fly through here. You don't even know me, and you are not my friend. That is why I never call you sister. A sister does not stab anyone in the back, I got enough stab wounds from you.
Also, I really do not care what you think of the movie. It is your opinion only. I gave my opinion. You looked at it as to bring judgment to a man the same as many did. I looked at it so that I could witness for myself what Christ went through, it served a purpose for me. I heard so many thing about Mel and wanted to see the movie for myself. It didn't show a Risen Christ, but I know He is Risen. I thank Him for saving me.
---MarkV. on 8/3/10


JackB, I'm really not being ugly here, but can I ask you a question. After seeing the movie, when you pray do you see Jim Caville's (sp) face? I asked my brother that, and you should have see his face...he looked shocked and then said YES Yes I do. I remember the movie of the Robe, and never at any time was the face of Christ shown..

We must remember we are not saved by Christ's suffering, however He did suffer. The WORSE suffering is when our sin separated Him from the Father. No physical pain can compare to that! I wonder how many emotional?? salvations?? took place?
---kathr4453 on 8/3/10


MarkV, I know so many who got railroaded into seeing the movie who repented that they even went. There is a book that accompanies the move by those who promoted the Movie. 100 Questions and answers of the Passion of the Christ. You can find the book in any RCC Book store.

AFTER you read the book, THEN come back and say what you said.

I also have GOOD CALVIN friends who have a Discernment website called Rapidnet. Maybe you would like to hear what these Calvinists thought of the movie too....After reading THEN come back and say what you said.


The Movie was as much about Mary as CO-REDEMPTRESS as it gets. Also the crooked cross at the end is a satanic symbol!!!
---kathr4453 on 8/3/10


I have to agree with MarkV and JackB

The Passion of the Christ movie gave me new found vigor to follow after him.
It gave me a visual of what Christ went through and endured to save me. And I didn't even deserve it!
To this day, I can't watch that movie without weeping and tourmoil(spelling?) in my soul because of what Christ did for me.
It let me know what I might have to endure is nothing. Thank you Lord!
I really wish they would have shown Jesus resurrected though. That would have sealed Christ triumph over the devil right in front of our eyes.

I also liked the movie Fireproof. We should all strive to have Godly marriages(if we are married that is)
---miche3754 on 8/3/10


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Jack B, phrase God, you and I agree. I love that. I also believe as you do that it had a super effect on many who are already Christians. It seems to me that many walk in a daze everyday. Maybe I was too. We study and learn and spend alot of time in the Word, but many need to be inspired. Some use music, and even cry when they hear the words spoken for Christ. Some music is very inspiring. But this movie to me brought the same feelings I had when I was saved. I felt the pain that Christ went through, and couldn't help cry during the movie. I felt so bad for what He had to go through for my sins. I believe that in life He suffured worse then what was on the movie. It is seldom that we see movies of God or Christ this days. We need more of God.
---MarkV. on 8/3/10


I actually thought it was an excellent movie.

It gave me a new drive to serve Him in light of the suffering He went thru for me. Its something that I dont really think about much because He is alive again.

Ill bet there were 1000s of people that came to Jesus Christ because their hearts were softened and filled with compassion for him and the Lord took that opportunity to witness to their heart.
---JackB on 8/2/10


Kathr, in trying to bad-mouth what I said, you forgot the rest of what I said, and why I said what I did, here it is again,

" Everyone already knew what Jesus went through, from Scripture, books and stories, but that movie really stired my heart like no other. It is implanted in my mind forever. I have it and have never seen it again. I do not have to see it anymore to realize what Christ went through, even if it doesn't come close to what He really went through"

To you Kathr, it was what it is, your dirty mind was not looking at the movie for what I said was important, you were looking at it for what you could find that was dirt only because I mentioned the movie. God has not changed you yet.
---MarkV. on 8/2/10


Celibacy is not man made.
---aka.joseph on 8/2/10


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KarenD --

You can call me whatever you want:

Born Again. Recovering Catholic. Spirit-Filled. I've heard most of them.

I've never had any statues at my house. Only pictures of the Pieta and The Last Supper.

I was always taught that only Priests, and higher ups, wear those necklaces with a Cross & Jesus Christ nailed to it. I'm not a Priest, so a necklace is not for me.

Anyway, I believe that with Jesus Christ in my heart, there is NO need for statues, necklaces, laminated prayers, stained glass windows, etc.

And .. NO .. GOD doesn't like idols. That is why GOD had Moses destroy the Israelite's "golden calf" in Exodus.
---Sag on 7/29/10


sag...Are you trying to say that you are a born again Catholic? If so, did you take all those statues down at your house and stop wearing a necklace that had a man on it? Do you really think that God will tolerate idols?
---KarenD on 7/29/10


another example of someone who has done something that I feel in my heart was the best work was the movie of "The Passion of the Christ"
We have seen and heard about Mel Gibson, and even his intentions for making the movie, it is still one of the greatest works done by someone, who I believe God used to make the movie.
No other movie has ever had such an impact in my life.MarkV. on 7/27/1

MarkV never left the RCC. The movie was based on visions of violence not found in scripture, and the stations of the cross( VIOLENCE).It also did not end with Christ RISING from the dead.

Mel is a violent man who made violent movies. Just look at his violent temper in beating his girlfriend. Made an impact on you MarkV???
---kathr4453 on 7/29/10


Cluny,

As a Catholic, I'm well aware that there are problems in the church. For example, the Bible says to only call God FATHER and the Bible doesn't command Priests and Nuns to be CELEBATE. Those things are "man made" religious traditions.

I do think that the Protestants are going about trying to reach Catholics, and help them see past their religious traditions, in the WRONG ways. Jimmy Swaggart, John Hagee, and other Protestants, seem to think that "name calling", TV rages, and hateful messages, are how Jesus Christ taught people about the truth. I don't think so at all.

I think that "Speaking The Truth In Love" -- Ephesians 4:15 -- is something that Protestants really struggle with.
---Sag on 7/28/10


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One of the first songs that I liked was "My Sweet Lord". It was performed by George Harrison. It sounded like a Christian song with a lot of "Hallelujah" talk.

I didn't care that some people slammed the song as a Hindu worship song to Allah. What I didn't "know", didn't "hurt" me.

I should mention that all this was BEFORE I came to see that there was more to being "born again" than just the religions that Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists, etc. seemingly follow -- without any questions.

There IS a difference between being "religious" and being "born again".
---Sag on 7/28/10


Cluny....By the way, I didn't say a particular verse. I said the Third Chapter of John.
---KarenD on 7/28/10


\\I guess they don't believe what Jesus said in the Third Chapter of John or they have never read the Bible.\\

My own observation is that it's Protestants who don't believe what Jesus said in the John 3, not Roman Catholics or Orthodox.

And most Protestants not not really read the Bible either. All they seem to be able to quote is their favorite proof-texts, but when you ask them what the next verse says, they never know.
---Cluny on 7/28/10


KarenD:

Our trading-of-message has been a spiritual growth experience for me. Thanks for your time and responses.

NO church is perfect, because ALL people are imperfect. Ecclesiastes 7:20

All people, and all churches, have "strengths" and "weaknesses". GOD would like us to be more like Jesus Christ. Romans 12:2.

I think that the: money swindling, marital unfaithfulness, angry put-downs, etc. from Assembly of God televangelists is deplorable. So is the dishonesty that the Catholic Pope now admits was going on for years.

These things have got to change in order for the churches to reach people and help them become more like Jesus Christ. Not drive people away.

---Sag on 7/28/10


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sag...Now I see where you are coming from. There is no apology for teaching the truth about the Catholic Church. When witnessing to Catholic's we are quite often told that they don't see any reason to be "born again." I guess they don't believe what Jesus said in the Third Chapter of John or they have never read the Bible.
---KarenD on 7/28/10


KarenD --

FORGIVING someone doesn't mean that you must TRUST them again. Especially, if they have NEVER apologized "in person".

Jim Bakker has never apologized to me, and everyone else in the USA, for "swindling" us and then using our tax dollars for his legal issues.

Jimmy Swaggart has never apologized to me, and other Catholics, for his constant "bashing" of the church. Actually, he's "beating GOD to a pulp". Not Good!

Benny Hinn has never explained to me what he used my donations for. Yet, I get more donation requests. In the wastebasket they go!

My TRUST in these guys has been shattered. I've decided to FORGIVE and FORGET about these guys. Just as Jesus taught.
---Sag on 7/27/10


sag....The Bible says that if you do not forgive people God will not forgive you. It is really sad that you cannot find it in yourself to forgive these people that you don't even know. Thank God that HE has more grace and mercy than that. It is obvious that you have not heard the story of King David or the one about Peter denying Christ three times.
---KarenD on 7/27/10


KarenD:

I believe that Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggart are FORGIVEN. However, a lot of people, myself included, won't ever TRUST them again. Lies and more lies.

A friend told me that Benny Hinn was an AG Pastor. News reports mentioned Benny getting divorced. I don't know.

Jim Bakker still owes the Federal government A LOT of tax money. Probably more than the guy can ever pay off. I don't know if his supporters realize that their donations are probably being used to pay off the tax debt.

I believe that the Bible has many "teachings", and "examples", on how we SHOULD live.

I also believe that God allows these "real life" guys to be models on how we should NOT live.

---Sag on 7/27/10


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Sag...Jimmy Baker openly repented and apologized to those he hurt and is now serving the Lord. FORGIVEN!!!! Jimmy Swaggart repented and mentions his "fall" often in his preaching and has a ministry that is still going strong. FORGIVEN!!! Benny Henn is in another category all by himself and he is not associated with the Assemblies of God. Never have seen any indication that he even thinks he needs to repent.
---KarenD on 7/26/10


\\This is not a new feature .. some old hymns, and certainly many of the magnificent old hymn tunes, were written by non-Christians.
---alan8566_of_uk on 7/26/10\\

Can you give any example of old hymns written by non-Christians, alan?
---Cluny on 7/27/10


Sag, another example of someone who has done something that I feel in my heart was the best work was the movie of "The Passion of the Christ"
We have seen and heard about Mel Gibson, and even his intentions for making the movie, it is still one of the greatest works done by someone, who I believe God used to make the movie.
No other movie has ever had such an impact in my life. Everyone already knew what Jesus went through, from Scripture, books and stories, but that movie really stired my heart like no other. It is implanted in my mind forever. I have it and have never seen it again. I do not have to see it anymore to realize what Christ went through, even if it doesn't come close to what He really went through.
---MarkV. on 7/27/10


Writing music and lyrics of any genre is a human skill.

Most musicians do it for money.

I would not be surprised to hear that some writers of Christian songs are not Christians themselves, but they know what their Christian listeners and customers want.

This is not a new feature .. some old hymns, and certainly many of the magnificent old hymn tunes, were written by non-Christians.
---alan8566_of_uk on 7/26/10


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KarneD, I was shocked to to find that out.
I was looking for the anchor holds to down load and found an article that talked about what happened to him.
so, MarkV is correct on this.

I know for me, Christian Music ministers to me so well.

I believe we each have the way God reaches us.
His word in music, in other people (tesimonies, witnessing, preaching, teaching), the Bible itself
---miche3754 on 7/26/10


Give us an example of someone in this classification that you know for sure the condition of their heart, please!
---KarenD on 7/22/10

The Bible states in Matthew 7:16 "By Their Fruits, You Will Know Them." That's how I know about Ray Boltz.

In the Assemblies of God, there is: Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, Benny Hinn, etc. with the same not-so-good fruit.

The Bible also says in Galatians 6:1 that we should have a "spirity of meekness" and pray for the restoration of those who have sinned and fallen. Whether sexual sin, monetary sins, dishonesty, falsely representing God, etc,

My intention is NOT to spread gossip on Christianet. Only to seek input about my blog question.
---Sag on 7/26/10


Christopher - You are going by opinion, NOT what the Bible says. The Bible says that ALL genres of music were created by God, to glorify Him - Satan just twisted and perverted it. If you don't believe me, read your Bible, it's in there. In fact in Psalms it talks about praising God with all kinds of instruments - most I might add, are used in rock music.
---Leslie on 7/26/10


It is sad that I had to hear that Ray fell away on a "Christian" blog. I didn't know that and now have heard the gossip about it.
---KarenD on 7/26/10


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I agree with MarkV on this.

The Bible says the gifts are without repentance.


The Anchor Holds is a very favorite song of mine and I am sad that Ray fell away. BUT that does not mean he won't be back. We must keep him in our prayers that God will restore!
---miche3754 on 7/26/10


KarenD:

I think that your response about "not being able to know everything" is correct.

While Sag's question was about Music, the same applies to other areas too. In my case, and that of several church leaders, it is Divorce.

Many churches, Christians, colleges, etc. seem to think that once a person gets divorced, that is the end of their being a capable: Pastor, church leader, parent, etc.
That is NOT what the Bible teaches at all. Divorce happens in this fallen, sinful world.

God forgives all sin through his son Jesus with the goal of RESTORING even the worst of sinners. All we need to do is "repent" and turn from whatever sin tripped us up.
---Augie on 7/26/10


Sag, Karen's right in saying that no one knows if this people who composed the songs or sang them were Christian or not, because we cannot see the heart. That said, we know of many who have stumbled. Pastors stumble, singers stumble, every one does in some way or another. What is important is what was done. If someone had a calling from God and did not know it came from God, he will produce what God wants him to produce even though he thinks its coming from him along. The music does survive and it will remain inspiring to those whom God wants to inspire. Even the Truth that pastors who have fallen will remain Truth. One of my favorite singers was Ray Boltz. I still get inspired by his songs. But maybe never his new songs with his new views.
---MarkV. on 7/25/10


KarenD:

Thanks for your reply. I agree with what you said.

I can't -- and don't -- know the true "spiritual" condition of a person. Whether a church goer, a Christian performer, an atheist, etc. Neither can anyone else. Only GOD knows that and WHY a person CHOSE to live that way. There is always something that other people don't know.

Unfortunately, a lot of Christian performers, churches, ministries, etc. seem to be using GOD as a marketing tool or pathway. Again, I don't really know.

If I can't "know" it all, then how can others at church? That is why I get miffed when people lash out at me when I mention that I love the music of some fallen Christian performers.
---Sag on 7/24/10


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Sag....How is it that you know so much about the spiritual condition of these people whom you have probably never met? One of the lessons I learned early in life is that if someone is selling themselves as a Christian singer or gospel group it doesn't make them Christian. My personal opinion is that NOBODY should be selling the Word of God or the gospel message for any reason and this would include books, CDs, DVDs, etc.
---KarenD on 7/23/10


All genres of music are not of God, my friends. In fact, rock and roll began as a mockery of Gospel music that was played in certain black churches. Study the history of it and you will see. Other music such as rap started as worldly and so it is still worldly. Mixing worldly practices and music with things of God does not win souls any more than mixtures of paganism with things of God won souls beginning with a certain church which tried to destroy Christianity a number of times. People still are deceived as they hold on to things of the world that are impure in God's sight. I am quite sure that these Words are of the Spirit.
---Christopher on 7/23/10


ALL genres of music were created by God to glorify God. Satan used to be the archangel of music in Heaven (Lucifer), but got kicked out of Heaven. Satan now twists and perverts ALL music to glorify himself. If the music glorifies God the way it was made to do, no matter the genre, then it is of God. The Bible even tells us to make music and a joyful noise unto the Lord. Therefore, no matter the genre, music itself is not evil - the one the music glorifies (if the devil) can make it evil.
---Leslie on 7/23/10


My tapes & c d's are the good ole Church Hymns & southern Gospel music even instrumentals to worship. Places I've been to listen & when the music is louder where I cant hear the singer, that Is Totally Unappropriate.
Even the kind that Is so butchered up (contemporary music & singing ) I can't stand. They use it motivate you & Not let God do the work.
---Lawrence on 7/23/10


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KarenD:

Some examples of singers who I thought were good Christians, and their life later turned out to be not-so-good, would be:

Jim Henson, creator of "The Muppets".
Elvis Presley, Assemblies of God singer.
Ray Boltz, Contemporary Christian Music.
Sandy Patti, Gospel Singer.
Jim Nabors, Gospel Singer.

I should mention that Satan works over-time to topple Christians. I believe that we should pray for these folks rather than shun them. Their music was -- and still is -- very "inspiring" to me.
---Sag on 7/23/10


The gifts and calling of God are without repentance. If that means God doesn't take his hand away from using the gifts in a person which he placed there then it is very possible that someone like that can indeed create inspired work. To cast something aside is being judge and jury of a person who created it,but their work,if religious type,doesn't sin. People sometimes in an attempt to look holy by going to the extreme wind up only looking silly. People can look for sin anywhere by putting their own spin on things they'll find it everytime. Its like the Bible says to gag at a nit and swallow a camel.
---Darlene_1 on 7/23/10


Something about boycotts.

Boycotts were originally against LOCAL merchants or others who were acting unjustly.

However, with today's big corporations, attempting to boycott one will NOT directly affect the managers who conceive and implement unfair policies.

They first and most adversely affect the minimum wage workers on the bottom of such pyramids--they very ones who can hardly be held responsible.
---Cluny on 7/23/10


Evaluate the quality of music for the sake of the music and don't be concerned about the performer or composer, if it is good religious music it will survive long after the composer or performer in in the grave. How they conducted their personal lives are none of your business any way. Tell that to the idiots at your church and give them a good hard kick an the hindquarters after words.
---Friendly_Blogger on 7/23/10


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We could attempt to defer to a "Christian boycott" because of something supported or given into, but if you really want to be stiff about it all, you would have to go back to the people who had the farm, those who planted the seeds, those who harvested the crops, those who processed the crops, those who packaged the crops as consumables, those who loaded the trucks, those who drove the trucks, those who manufactured the trucks that carry the goods, those who constructed the roads the trucks drove on, those who unloaded the trucks, those who made the pallets......etc, etc, etc. The list could go on and on forever and we would end up in so much bondage ourselves trying to figure it out, we couldn't shop anywhere.
---Linda on 7/22/10


It is easy, through the example I gave, to see how 10 commandments easily became over 600. By the time you traced everything back to the beginning, sin was already there waiting to put everybody in bondage.
---Linda on 7/22/10


Cluny, Mary:

Thanks for your replies.

These days, it seems as though there is always someone who find something wrong with something. Examples:

The store(s) you shop at.
The church you attend.
The industry, and/or company, where you work.
The radio, and/or TV, stations you like.
Where your belongings were made. I would like to "Buy American", but almost everything seems to be "Made In China".
Etc. Etc.

It is very difficult, if not impossible, to find movies that don't involve some violence. I keep trying.
---Sag on 7/22/10


How does a person know if the person who wrote/sang music is a Christian who is unrepentant? Give us an example of someone in this classification that you know for sure the condition of their heart, please!
---KarenD on 7/22/10


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Is there anyone who posts to these blogs who is NOT a sinner?

I have better things to do than to snoop into other people's lives (especially if I don't know their names) and try to guess what's on their consciences.

Furthermore, unlike others here, I don't pretend to see into people's hearts and diagnose the states of their souls.
---Cluny on 7/22/10


I agree with you Sag, besides it's not up to us to judge our brethren, that will be up to the Lord as to how He wishes to deal with them. Enjoy the music :)
---Mary on 7/22/10


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