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Was Creation Instantaneous

Was creation essentially instantaneous as the Bible says or was it gradual, over eons of time, as some scientists say?

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 ---jerry6593 on 7/26/10
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Alan, read the Bible. For you make statements like the one you gave Jerry,
"I don't accept that Omnipotence leads to predestination, because it implies that God, being a God of love, predestines only some to be saved".
Did you read where it says that God choose Israel over all the other nations? Did you read where God ordered the slaughter of the Canaanites? The gospel went to the Jews and no one else. All the Gentiles were kept from the gospel. They all died in their sins. What do you have to say about those passages? Did any of those have free will? Did God not restrict the gospel to go to them? From the very beginning God is chosing to whom He will have mercy on and whom will not get mercy. Is this the God you know?
---MarkV. on 8/2/10


Which Bible are you reading? Even YEC have to admit that the Genesis account was a gradual account of creation. Even YEC have to admit that God did not create everything in 1 "day" or "second", it was gradual, from simple to more complex!

Now whether one should believe in the Young Earth Creationist' interpretation on various scriptura texts (chiefly the Genesis account) and scientific data is a whole different issue!

Google "Evolutionary Creation: A Christian Approach to Evolution" by Denis O. Lamoureux.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 8/2/10


Cliff, 'uniformitarianism' is a pillar of evolutionism, meaning the forces happening in the present are those which have always been, which have formed this world of ours.

Peter rejects this belief because "the world of that time was deluged and destroyed", and this present world will be destroyed by fire. We also know sin dramatically changed the world, bring the curse, therefore what we see happening today is not what happened at the beginning.

Therefore that created "very good" (Genesis 1:31) is no more and not 'very good.' As Paul says "For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now (Romans 8:19-23). Your view also undermines the gospel.
---Warwick on 8/2/10


Cliff as we do not know what features (horns, teeth etc) animals had originally, or what purpose such features originally had, your comments are idle speculation.

You assume that long sharp teeth exist for killing or defence when the fruit bat has such teeth,and sharp claws, and is vegetarian. They make a mess of my mangos.

BTW I notice you failed to admit your error with the original human diet. You need to read what Scripture says.

You say horns etc are "designed for defence or agression" but as I have said you are endeavouring to extrapolate backwards without any evidence upon which to base these mental gymnastics.
---Warwick on 8/2/10


Alan: Whew! Glad to hear that!

Cliff: The geologic strata of the earth PROVE a catastrophic flood, just as the Bible says. The layers themselves give ample evidence of hydraulic formation and particulate sorting - not the even distribution expected of uniformitarianism. Thus, the eons of time required by the evolutionary hypothesis are missing in the geologic record. Stick with the Bible, and true science will eventually catch up.
---jerry6593 on 8/2/10




Warwick,"everything,obviously does not go on as it has since the beginning of creation"
These words could have come straight out of Darwin's "Origin of the Species" since that's the basic argument of evolutionists!

What genetic changes have occurred spontaneously, to alter ,long horned cattle,deer, mountain goats,wild boars,elk, etc.. causing them to grow horns and antlers designed for defence and or aggression?!
2Pet.3. "everything goes on" He was not talking about changes in "creatures" (nice try)
Sorry your argument is poor logic!
---1st_cliff on 8/1/10


Cliff, judging the past by the present (uniformitarianism) is to say the least deeply flawed reasoning.

2 Peter 3:3-6 was written for you:

"First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed."

Everything obviously does not go on as it has since the beginning of creation!
---Warwick on 8/1/10


It's difficult for me to believe adults,seemingly educated, say that it was never intentioned for creatures to die!
There are 2,500 species of mosquitoes alone,the male lives a week the female about 2 months--if none dies,together with flies,wasps,roaches,rats,mice,spiders,scorpions...well you get the picture! Standing room only on this planet! Who could sleep in this environment?
This is the 21st century,not the 1st, we know a thing or two now!
How is it educated people still revert to fantasy?
---1st_cliff on 8/1/10


#2, There are more cattle in India than in the US,there they roam unmolested, fortunately they have a "life span" else,by now, there would be no place for humans.
Even with all the neutering and spaying, our city is over run with cats!
The rats would have long since overtaken NYC,
Even with their natural life cycle there are about 10million spiders per acre of grass!
Sure I'm going on and on about this,'cause I can't believe grown men preach no death (of creatures) before Adam's sin meaning they never were supposed to die!
Are there still rational people among us?
---1st_cliff on 8/1/10


Sorry Mark ... I used the wrong word!
You say that God's OMNIPOTENCE means that He decideds everything that will happen ... that's called a plan.
Your theology says that God has selected from before the beginning of the world, those whom He will save.
It therefore says He has selected those whom He will not save ... whom He will punish because of their "disobedience"
But Mark, if God is omnipotent, He decides that they will be sinners, and not repent, and not accept Jesus. He has decided all they way they live ... is in complete control of them. How can He "justly" punish them for behavingas He ordains?
---alan8566_of_uk on 8/1/10




Jerry ... No I have not descended into Calvinism!

I used the wrong word Omniscient, I meant Omnipotent. I don't accept that Omnipotence leads to predestination, because it implies that God, being a God of love, predestines only some to be saved.

This same God predestines the vast majority of mankind to remaining sinful and to being eternally punished for being as God has decided they should be.

Mark's God just and loving??? No way!
---alan8566_of_uk on 8/1/10


jerry,Looking back, this diversion was a result of someone saying that "sin transferance" has basically played a role or surrounded the christian beliefs in the biblical creation.
As far as,from your post, child abuse from a father to a child son produces no solid evidence of this being genetically inherited and likewise human death being claimed by christians that it is genetically inherited -genetically inherited"sin transferance"from a parent to a child.
If a person has been beaten as a child and cannot comes to terms with God's idea of forgiving even those who severily oppress the innocent child then the idea may become ingrained into the opressed person's consciousness to displace their anger.
---earl on 8/1/10


1 Cliff, what Alan stated is wrong, God been Omniscient does not mean He planed anything before time began, Omniscient means He knows everything and nothing is ever new to Him, for He gains no knowledge but knows all things. What He did do with His plan was that He ordained it to be a certain way.
I believe before anyone argues something, they should know what it is they are arguing about. God is Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent, Holy, Just, Immutable, and His nature is love, whether anyone wants to believe it or not. Alan, you and I, can speak about what we think is correct, but what is really truth is what God thinks is.
---MarkV. on 7/31/10


Cliff .... neither do I buy it.

But that God is the inevitable result of the Calvinist theology that is put forward by a few here.
---alan8566_of_uk on 8/1/10


earl: Funny, but in your two rather lengthy posts, you failed to mention the subject under discussion - the Flood. It's hard to have a discussion unless BOTH parties stay on topic.

Do the sins of the father actually pass to succeding generations? Ever hear of child abuse?

Is it safe to judge God now, or should we wait on that?

1Co 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
---jerry6593 on 8/1/10


Alan: I'm with Cliff. I can't believe you've descended into Calvinism. Foreknowledge and predestination are not the same thing.
---jerry6593 on 8/1/10


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Alan U K , I can't believe you wrote that!
God planning everything from the get-go means even the cruel death of his own Son!
The drowning of thousands,burning alive of Sodomites (who were only acting according to preordained plan)?
This negates all "free will" since it is all going according to plan!
Useless to hope, pray, preach or whatever .
It's all laid out in the master plan!
This chaotic sinful world is all choreographed by God?
Personally ,I don't buy it!
---1st_cliff on 7/31/10


jerry,When a person is brought fourth to be sentenced for a crime is it right to convict and sentence this person or to convict and sentence not only this same person but generation and generation of this person's family?
Since God is with you always what does he impress upon you do-punish one or not only punish one but all genetic related persons and their unborn near and far across the country in which this person lives.
God's will is that we maintain a civil society but is the latter example act a civilized act.NO.Which one is just judgement?If you sin does your family also sin because of your sin?NO.
---earl on 7/31/10


jerry,In another bible book a man did an injustice and not only was he killed but his whole family was executed for his injustice.This was the norm in that day.Man's injustice is that he wrote that God approves of this innocent killing of uninvolved family nonparticipents.
Ezekiel attempted to dislodge this misconduct and he wrote about inappropriate sin transferance but today he is overlooked as all true prophets have been.Jesus argued against injustices of jewish laws/beliefs-sin transferance.Who was it that believed that a man was permanently afflicted/deformed by God because of his sin?Was he not corrected?
---earl on 7/31/10


I must agree somewhat with earl, that God simply said if they disobeyed they would die! After the sin was committed then God "added on" Pain of childbirth, thorns and thistles and hard labor!
This was not part of the "warning"
What court "adds on" extra penalties not listed in law?
Makes people wonder!
---1st_cliff on 7/31/10


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Cliff ... God being omniscient, planned the Fall. and man's subsequent and continuing sinfullness. And He planned the Flood right fdrom scratch, and so had the animals. and man, for their carnivorous future ... tearing teeth, antlers, and so on.

And since God is just, He was quite justified in killing vertually everything in the Flood, for it was proper punishment for those folk, who were behaving as God has planned.

iT all goes to show that God whatever He does, even though He breaks every rule which he has laid on men, it behaving justly, because it is for His glory
---alan8566_of_uk on 7/31/10


earl: You argue against the Bible. The Bible records that God did indeed intentionally destroy all humans and all land animals, except Noah, his family and the land animals on board the ark. Because:

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that EVERY imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Now you may be right and God wrong, but I doubt it. Besides, God was there and you weren't.
---jerry6593 on 7/31/10


Earl this world is God's, He owns it and all it contains for a unique reason: He created it.

He and only He sets the rules. Anyone who ignores or rejects His absolute ownership, beware.

The curse, brought upon the world by Adam's sin was God's justice. Mankind has continued this relellion right up to the present. This blog gives proof of that.

That sin is visited to people down the generations is testimony to the disaster which sin is. It corrupts all it touches.

But God's love did not leave us lonely, helpless victims-" For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive." 1 Corinthians 15:22

"Will the clay say to the potter, 'What are you doing?" Isaiah 45:9
---Warwick on 7/31/10


Cliff if it was not for God's word you would not have the slightest idea what food God provided for Adam.

But God does tell us what He provided for Adam et al 'Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food"' Genesis 1:29.

Genesis 1:30 refers to the food created for animals!
---Warwick on 7/31/10


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Warwick,There is not a single sane person in the world who will side with a God who curses not just the criminal but the whole non involved family and their unborn generation after generation.
It is no wonder man is disturbed about the God he attempts to know as a father.
This act of curses by God is a primitive belief of men in achient times who labeled their justification as God's personal doings.It was man's and only man's primitive justice way that is much unlike true justice today.What will God impress upon you in a court of law,punish the individual or punish both the individual and the innocent families throughout their genetic linnage?.
---earl on 7/30/10


Warwick,Curses are in the same catagory of magic,hexing and vexing.
Like I said will a court convict a murderer and sentence him or convict and sentence the murderer plus the murderer's families and future famlies just because they are related.NO.
Is this above judicial system just judgement? NO.
Which manner of just judgement does God approve of.The one you condone as God's act from your verses or true just judgement where the one who commits the act is justly judged and no other with him?Is it not true that the soul that sinneth dies and not a innocent bystander caught in the mix?Jesus never taught such injustices.
---earl on 7/30/10


Ernest 1, If you want to argue semantics,then the word here in Gen.1.30 green vegetation('eseb) simply means "green"grass or tender shoot.Adam did not eat green grass!
God killed animals to clothe the pair indicating one of the proper uses of animals,(clothing)altho it doesn't say they ate the meat!
Man has come a long way since Eden and all the creature's diets are well known!!
Many are carnivores!
Horns, antlers and venom are not for eating grass!
No changes in animal appendages are listed in Gen (or elsewhere)
God favored Abel who brought "fat portions from his flocks"Gen4.4 Vegetarian..nah!
---1st_cliff on 7/30/10


\\Cluny, when you speak.
---Eloy on 7/30/10\\

Since when is quoting the exact words of Jesus speaking falsehood.
---Cluny on 7/30/10


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1Cliff, why do you protest to everything? There has to be a reason. You are not protesting because you want to know the Truth, you have another reason. Maybe you could tell us that reason and someone could answer you on what is really behind all the protest. Is it that you do not believe in God? Or that you do not believe in the Word of God but believe in God? Is it that you have made up your mind that it is your job to protest? You see, others who might feel like you, do not waste their time as you do on line with everyone of us. They just go on believing what they do and wouldn't care less about talking to us about it. Help us out.
---MarkV. on 7/30/10


Cliff, if you are prepared to believe what the Bible says, then Warwick is right in what he is saying.

Concerning the food chain of God's creatures, there was no blood shed before sin. The original diet for them like man was a bloodless one:

Genesis 1:30, "And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so."
---Ernest_1 on 7/30/10


Warwick,The "natural food chain" is a given, whether I call it that or not.Surely you're not going to say that it doesn't exist!
You're simply Speculating "God could have"
"might have" "possibly" etc.
I and billions of others see first hand that these creatures are equipped for battle,(defence and aggression)
If you carefully read Gen.1 you'll see that death of "MAN" not animals, was the consequence of sin!
Animals were never promised eternal life,left unchecked would soon overrun the earth!
---1st_cliff on 7/30/10


Cluny, when you speak.
---Eloy on 7/30/10


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Earl if all else fails read Scripture.

Genesis ch. 3 explains some of the consequences of sin, which was transfrerred to the whole earth as the curse- verse 14"...cursed are you above all the livestock."

Exodus 20:5, Deuteronomy 5:9 and 1 Corinthians 15:22 clearly show sin is transferable. I have no desire for you to approve of what I write, only of what God has written.

Who are you to tell God He is unjust?
---Warwick on 7/30/10


Warwick,If I were asked to give my opinion as I read your post to Cliff I will say I have a higher opinion of Cliff's response than your's.Why?Well there was no curse because sin is not transferrable.It is evil and disrespectful to God to think that he curses people.
Is it just judgement to convict a person and then pass the conviction and sentencing onto all the future family members?If you believe the courts in the USA is low and unjust enough to do this kind of injustice then why do you believe God does it with righteousness?Unless you favor this form of injustice to humanity and appreciate God for acting unjustly.
---earl on 7/29/10


||Cluny, You speak falsehood.||

Where?

By saying that Genesis describes creation as a series of sequential events?

By saying that Adam's sin had unleashed a curse?

By saying that Jesus said that ALL power was given to Him?

Can you be specific?

In the meantime, keep blessing me, Eloy.
---Cluny on 7/29/10


Cliff you endeavour to understand the past by the present, as though that which exists is that which originally existed.

You have a low opinion of God imagining he could not have created a world which did not have or need what you call the "natural food chain."

You have absolutely no idea if cattle as originally created, had horns. Nor do you have any idea what they were designed for, if in fact they existed originally.

Thank you for your appreciation of wisdom. As you know such wisdom, if I indeed have it, is a gift of God. No credit to me.

The original world has gone, as has the world post curse, pre Noah. Things jest ain't what they usta be. But better days is a comin! Where will you be then?
---Warwick on 7/29/10


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1Cliff, I agree with Warwick on what he said, the changes were not because of evolution but because of the fall. But what has happen is, that you do not believe in the Word of God to be Truth. You question so much of it and then try to rely on Scripture to make your case. You either believe it is the Word of God or it is not. Taking parts of it and only the one's you want to use to make an argument and not the others is wrong. I know you have a lot of questions about what is written but you have to take is as Truth or just not have faith on any of it. I don't like some of the stories told, but it the Word of God, not written to satisfy me, but to satisfy God, and for us to trust.
---MarkV. on 7/29/10


Warwick, Your argument is a little shallow,to say the least ! Surely you know the "natural food chain" that God devised to keep all creatures in "balance" then gave man "dominion" over them!
How (in your great wisdom) could man regulate the animal population without "culling" or eating them? Especially fish!
If you get too close to "El Toro" you'll find those things on top of his head are not for eating grass!
---1st_cliff on 7/29/10


Cluny, You speak falsehood. As in Noah's day, in the latter days will come mockers, and they knew not until the flood came, and took them all away, so will also the coming of the Son of man be. For the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them.
---Eloy on 7/29/10


\\but the whole creation now under the control of the Creator's enemy, that was defaced, altered and cursed.\\

Wrong.

ALL POWER is given to Me in heaven and on earth.

This is what Jesus said at His ascension.

What part of "all power" gives any control to Satan?
---Cluny on 7/29/10


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Matthew 18:11 says "For the Son of man is come to save THAT which was lost."

It was not merely man that was lost, but the whole creation now under the control of the Creator's enemy, ...---Ernest_1 on 7/29/10

Perhaps in context with the following and the OT prophets. It is a little more clear in verses preceeding 18:11. For instance Matthew 10:6
But go rather to the LOST sheep of the house of Israel.
AND Clearest of all:
Matthew 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the LOST sheep of the house of Israel.
Witnessing too your post:
Matthew 18:11 says "For the Son of man is come to save THAT which was LOST."

Keys are Sheep and Lost.
---Trav on 7/29/10


Matthew 18:11 says "For the Son of man is come to save THAT which was lost."

It was not merely man that was lost, but the whole creation now under the control of the Creator's enemy, that was defaced, altered and cursed. But that power was broken by the Cross of Christ.

Praise God, He is now going to restore it all, in a new heavens and a new earth. Paradise lost is going to be paradise restored, and God is going to do it (Revelation 21:5) in possibly the same short time or less than he originally created it!
---Ernest_1 on 7/29/10


Cliff our fruit bats (wingspan c1 metre) have proportionally long, sharp, ripping teeth and they are vegetarian. Teeth do not prove what an animal eats.

You are also assuming the features of which you speak are not changes wrought by God under the curse.

As regards horns and tusks you make an error of logic. You cannot imagine their purpose in vegetarian animals and so assume they had no purpose! Evolutionsist did the same with the so-called 110 'vestigal organs" in the human body. Research has shown all but one now have a known purpose.

You always limit God. Why couldn't God explain death to Adam and Eve? Do you imagine they were grunting cave dwellers? God is just.
---Warwick on 7/29/10


Psalms 33:6-9 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made, and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. He gathereth the waters of the sea together as an heap: he layeth up the depth in storehouses. Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him. For he spake, and it was [done], he commanded, and it stood fast.
---micha9344 on 7/28/10


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Warwick, I have no issue with types within a species,or same hands to love or kill!
BUT what other peaceful uses are horns, antlers,tusks, saber teeth, poisonous venom, bee/wasp stingers,cactus etc? except to kill or defend?
How many men(or women) do not like to spend time chilling out at the lake or river fishing?? What other use are fish anyway,if you can't eat them ? (Christ fed the multitude with them!)
The death that started when Adam sinned was Human."and death spread to all men"
How could God warn A & E of death if they had no knowledge of what it meant? (that would be unjust)
---1st_cliff on 7/28/10


\\Cliff Scripture says God cursed His creation because of Adam's rebellion.\\

I would say that God was simply saying what Adam and Eve had done by their disobedience--released a curse upon the earth, NOT that He Himself was cursing it.

Though I suppose the effect is the same.

Consider this stanza from the Christmas hymn JOY TO THE WORLD:

No more shall sin and sorrow grow
Nor thorns infest the ground.
He comes to make His blessings flow
Far as the curse is found.
---Cluny on 7/28/10


Instantaneous. Period.
---larry on 7/28/10


Cliff Scripture says God cursed His creation because of Adam's rebellion. Genesis ch. 3 gives an overview of the downhill changes sin brought about. There is every reason to believe that features God created as part of His perfect world now had other purposes. Hands created to love were now used to kill. Same hands.

BTW as observation shows inherent characteristics can be selected by natural events. For example those animals within a species which have long hair/fur are better suited to survive in a freezing environment. As they are better able to survive severe cold they will breed. Others wont.

This is not aquisition of new genetic information but selection of that which was already there, in some individuals.
---Warwick on 7/28/10


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I believe there were massive changes at the fall including thorns and thistles, animal changes, and reproductive changes.
I also believe when God tells Israel that He took six days to create everything, He meant it.
---micha9344 on 7/28/10


\\Cluny, more dissing?
---Eloy on 7/28/10\\

Just giving you a serving of your same fruit you give to everybody else.

Not very tasty, is it?

In the meantime, if you're doing to write about adult subjects (such as Christian teaching), write like a serious adult and don't use non-words like "dissing" or "Christianed."
---Cluny on 7/28/10


And everything else, including the creation of man, happened in that same instant, too, didn't it, francis?

Or are you saying that six days to create everything is the SAME thing as instantaneous?
Cluny on 7/27/10

I see your point.
6 days is not instantainous.
But with the exceptionof Man ( including woman) Every individaul thing was instantainous.
---francis on 7/28/10


1Cliff, you are speculating with nothing to show for proof, only your own understanding, by what you see now and what you heard to be true from someone who is not God. That is why only what is in the Word of God is real Truth. You have many ideas and so do I, but they are our idea's and what is in our own mind that we can perceive. And let me tell you our minds are not the mind of God.
You do not want to depend on faith in the Word of God. You want to depend on your own understandings. The same way the lost do.
---MarkV. on 7/28/10


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Cluny, more dissing?
---Eloy on 7/28/10


As in Noah's day, in the latter days will come mockers, and they knew not until the flood came, and took them all away, so will also the coming of the Son of man be. For the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them.
---Eloy on 7/28/10


Warwick, So that means you're in agreement with the evolutionists who say animals "acquired" tusks,antlers,saber teeth, poisonous venoms etc..
Acquired characteristics have never been proven,( mutations are ALWAYS harmful)
I believe they (creatures) were created essentially as we see them!
Did the Praying Mantis know she shouldn't murder her mate (after mating) and feed him to her offspring?
You're deliberately turning a blind eye!
---1st_cliff on 7/28/10


Cliff, as you should know God created His creatures to be vegetarian-Genesis ch. 1. Therefore, obviously, animals were not created to kill and eat one another.

Genesis ch. 3 confirms God cursed His world because of Adam's sin. Death, disease, and suffering are the consequences of this rebellion, as Scripture says. How can we have the Good News if there was not first Bad News?

The perfect world no longer exists. This current world 'groans' because of the curse. But as He foreknew, because He planned it, this cursed world would one day be liberated from death, disease and struggle-Romans ch. 8.

By unScripturally placing death, and struggle before sin you undermine the foundation for the one and only gospel.
---Warwick on 7/28/10


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cluny: "Did you actually read what I said, jerry? ...Even if creation took six literal earthly days, a six-day process is by definition NOT instantaneous."

Try reading the blog question again. Was creation ESSENTIALLY instantaneous (i.e., consisting of many instantaneous word-to-matter conversions over a six-day period) as opposed to occurring over millions of years? Is that so hard for you to understand or are you purposely obfuscating?
---jerry6593 on 7/28/10


Mark v, Spiders spinning webs is not proof? Creatures with venom is not proof? Maybe you believe like the evolutionists do, that creatures "acquired" these things and were not created the way they are!
The deer,moose, elk etc."acquired" these appendages (antlers) just for "looks?"
The elephant grew tusks to chew vegetation and the rhinoceros too?
The bible doesn't say they were created without these defence mechanisms, but if you visit your local zoo you can plainly see that what I've described is "truth"!
Careful you don't step on a scorpion!
---1st_cliff on 7/28/10


\\Warwick, One of the names of our God is also, "Ancient of Days." But you will not understand what I post because your heart and mind are not yet Christianed.
---Eloy on 7/27/10\\

And do you actually think that yours is, Eloy?
---Cluny on 7/28/10


Warwick, You misjudge because you are unregenerate.
---Eloy on 7/27/10


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Eloy, you are sounding somewhat proud!

We Know God is eternal and eternity in itself is not a measure of time but a total absence of time. If eternity could be measured by time it would no longer be eternity would it?

God created time for us (Genesis 1:3-5) and 'Ancient of Days' is a human title for God, a human perspective on the 'ages' God has existed, from our time-locked perspective. It does not mean He lives in 'day's of any length. In reality the word day on its own can mean an unbounded period of time.
---Warwick on 7/27/10


1Cliff, you say,
"Some on here believe that no creatures "died" before Adam's transgression!...NO proof!"
There is no proof from Scripture that they did. And only Scripture is Truth, so how can we believe that? We can speculate, but speculation is not fact. We are not told what they ate to remain alive. We can speculate they ate what they eat now but that would be only speculation. God did not tell us what they ate. I believe, and only speculating, that God was interested in man more then animals and didn't explain those details. Otherwise He would have told us.
---MarkV. on 7/27/10


Warwick, One of the names of our God is also, "Ancient of Days." But you will not understand what I post because your heart and mind are not yet Christianed.
---Eloy on 7/27/10


Eloy the Creator is eternal therefore by definition does not live days of any length. If His existence could be measured by human time He would not be eternal! In fact to apply time to God who is outside of time is an oxymoron, a contradiction in terms.

I cannot see how the Scriptures you gave support 6,000 year days! Psalm 90:4
was penned for our information, in human terms (as is all Scripture as it is all for us, not God). It uses "a thousand years" and "a day" simply because the writer (and all of us ) knew what these terms meant.

The same goes for 2 Peter 3:8 which also does not say God lives days of any length.
---Warwick on 7/27/10


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\\Genesis 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Seems instantaneous to me.
---francis on 7/27/10\\

And everything else, including the creation of man, happened in that same instant, too, didn't it, francis?

Or are you saying that six days to create everything is the SAME thing as instantaneous?
---Cluny on 7/27/10


Who do you believe - God who created it all and knows all without limit, or a scientist who did not create it and has limited knowledge? I choose to believe God and His holy Word. It says that creation was instantaneous - God said it and bang it happened.
---Leslie on 7/27/10


The Bible does not say creation was essentially instantaneous. Please read the Scriptures. Jesus created creation in 6 of his days, which would be 6000 years to us, for 1 day to God in heaven is equal to 1000 years to man on earth. Please read Genesis 1:1,26,31, Psalm 90:4, II Peter 3:8, Genesis 2:16,17, 5:5. And as far as what worldly scientists say, who cares what words come from the ignorant?
---Eloy on 7/27/10


Some on here believe that no creatures "died" before Adam's transgression!...NO proof!
OTOH
God created all creatures,like spiders who spin webs for no other reason than to catch and eat live prey! Some with venom for killing!(God made them)
Rattle snakes kill! (God made them)
Venus fly traps kill live prey (God made them)
Vultures eat dead stock (God made them)

Sharks,barracudas,piranhas, sea bass, moray eels etc..all carnivores! (God made them)
Proof? you can see for yourself!
No smoke and mirrors here!
---1st_cliff on 7/27/10


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Genesis 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Seems instantaneous to me.
---francis on 7/27/10


Cluny, I totally agree with you. God did not speak all creation instantaneous. He created somethings on the first day, and even when He did, one came after another which calls for time, and then the next day did the same. He is God and could have called everything at one time (instananeous) but didn't for the purposes that only He knows why. There is many reasons why that was done, but only He knows why. Not that He couldn't, but that He didn't. Now concerning millions of years is not in Scripture. The Word of God is truth only, the rest is speculation, sometimes we speculate correctly other times we are so far off.
---MarkV. on 7/27/10


Are you saying gen1:1 is instantaneous?
Most of Gen 1 Speak of six days!

But then:
This one says "in the day" one day!
Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

This one says "before it was in the earth" and "before it grew"
Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

There a kind of stillness about it.
Like a kind of waiting?
---TheSeg on 7/27/10


\\Do you think that God has a major speech impediment that He takes 14B years to get the words out?
---jerry6593 on 7/27/10\\

Did you actually read what I said, jerry?

Or having read it, did you understand it?

I will paraphrase it for your benefit.

Even if creation took six literal earthly days, a six-day process is by definition NOT instantaneous.
---Cluny on 7/27/10


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cluny: "The Bible does NOT say that creation was instantaneous." As usual, the guy who claims to read the Bible in many languages hasn't a clue as to what it says.

Psa 33:6-9 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made, and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. He gathereth the waters of the sea together as an heap: he layeth up the depth in storehouses. Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him. For he spake, and it was done, he commanded, and it stood fast.

Do you think that God has a major speech impediment that He takes 14B years to get the words out?
---jerry6593 on 7/27/10


The Almighty God created this earth in six (6) literal days: the Bible says so. An eternal God cannot possibly be limited by "time". Instead HE "appointed" time for our sake. I mean think about it: HE could have made it all in a moment (especially when you consider the promise in 1Cor 15:51,52: bodies will be changed in a twinkling of an eye). Yet the great I AM chose to stage creation so the crown jewel would be Man. HE spoke everything else into existence (yes, that includes the monkeys, apes and whatever diversity thereof) but personally fashioned Man with HIS own hands and breath.
No it did not take gazillion years for that ape to become a man. That is contrary to the word of God.
---Jeason on 7/26/10


The Bible does NOT say that creation was instantaneous.

Even a literalistic interpretation of the time line of Genesis says that creation was an orderly sequential process with each step building on previous ones.

This is true whether creation took 6 earth days (which themselves are NOT stable and have never been) or 14 billion years.
---Cluny on 7/26/10


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