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Consciousness Without Body

Can our consciousness exist without a living body to support it?

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 ---jerry6593 on 7/26/10
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Leslie, Maybe you need to change your glasses,none of my posts have ever said "soul and spirit " are the same thing!
Soul= Heb-nephesh, Gr.-psyche
Spirit=Heb ruach, Gr.- pneuma
---1st_cliff on 8/2/10

there are many means for the word SOUL and teh word SPIRIT on the BIBLE

Hebrews 4:12 piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Never has the wordof God actually CUT bone
Here soula nd spirit means WILL and determination

Genesis 12:5 And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls that they had gotten

Here soul means PEOPLE
1 Samuel 18:1 the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul.

Here it means close friends
---francis on 8/2/10

Leslie: Just curious, are you male or female? I completely agree that the soul and the spirit are two different things. The soul is the combination of TWO components - a body and the breath of life from God - not three as you assert. In addition, our bodies MAY be the temple of the Holy Spirit - the Third Person of the Godhead. There are other definitions of spirits that may inhabit us, i.e., an evil spirit or "the spirit is willing", etc. But there are positively NO "spirits that form our consciousness and survive the death of the body. At the resurrection, we will receive new and better "souls".

As for me leading anyone to hell, it seems to me that some seem fairly adept at doing that for themselves.
---jerry6593 on 7/31/10

Jerry6593 & 1st Cliff - Both of you have proven that you argue the Bible thus argue with God and say you are God. I have given 1 Thessalonians 5:23 several times, that states that spirit and soul are two differant things that humans are made of. Yet you argue that. Here is another scripture proving my point Hebrews 4:12 (spirit and soul are two different things). All I can say, is that you have proven to be false teachers. I pray no one listens to you, or you will lead them to Hell.
---Leslie on 7/30/10

Leslie, Do you not understand plain English?
When God formed Adam he laid there lifeless,God then "activated" him by breathing life into his "nostrils" (the natural passage for breathing air/pneuma)
He then became a "living soul"!
Conversely, when the pneuma/air leaves the body,it becomes a "dead soul" simple enough?
The pagans couldn't buy this they said "Oh no he couldn't have died, he must have gone somewhere,in the great beyond,to maybe a happier life"!
They don't believe in resurrection!
---1st_cliff on 7/30/10

Leslie: Again, your logic proves the opposite of your assertion. I gave you Scriptural (you know, the Bible) quotes, and you continue to argue against them. Then you call me a heretic for defending the Bible position rather than your twisted version of it. If you desire to have a rational discussion, please address the specific scriptures I gave one at a time and give your reasons why the Bible does not mean what it says.
---jerry6593 on 7/30/10

Jerry - You argue the Bible, therefore you say that you are God, and that you know better than God. This is idolitry (worshipping false gods). Let God and His Word be TRUE and EVERY man (that does not line up with God and His Word) be a LIAR.
---Leslie on 7/29/10

Leslie: Your logic proves the opposite of your assertion.
---jerry6593 on 7/29/10

Did Jesus exist before He was born?
Yet this is an unfair question know who Jesus is and not for those who don't really know.
Was God without His Word for three days?
Is the Spirit of God just a force?
Is God, being Spirit, just a force?
If God, being Spirit, is not a force, and man was made in His image, not being an earthly image but a heavenly, what does that say about our spirit?
And yet we must be born again and let the dead bury their dead.
---micha9344 on 7/28/10

Consciousness is a brain function,when the brain dies ,so does consciousness!
Not until resurrection does the brain function again!
All this "life-after-death" belief is for spirit mediums, crystal ball gazers,table rappings and the like.
Not for Christians!
---1st_cliff on 7/28/10

Atheist & Jerry6593 - 1st Atheist - God is not limited, but Earth is. The reason Jesus had to appear in a body, is so He could be tempted and face the same emotions that humans do, so as to become our advocate and intercessor on the cross and in Heaven. Jesus had to know what we go through, so He could say that He knows how we feel. In other words Jesus knows your pain and suffering, because He went through it too. 2nd Jerry6593 - When you mention God breathing into mans nostrils, that is His pnuema breath (spirit). In 1 Thessalonians 5:23 it talks about spirit and soul being two differant things that we are made of, NOT one in the same. Either God and His Word are wrong or you are wrong.
---Leslie on 7/28/10

Leslie: With all due respect, it is you who present an extra-biblical theory - not me. Here is what the Bible says about a soul.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul. [That's two components of the soul - not three]

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing,

Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

As for your heresy comment:

Act 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers,
---jerry6593 on 7/28/10


What has gravity got to do with it. If your god created everything, he can do what he wants.

If jesus is god, and god created creation, why "on earth" would he not have the ability to do what he needed to do, or needs to do, on earth, at anytime he pleases?

What has caused god to become so limited in his abilities?

And---god supposedly made man in his own image, so what's the big deal about appearing on earth? Apparently he is completely equipped to do so.
---atheist on 7/27/10

Atheist & Jerry6593 - 1st Atheist - The rules of Earth are that you MUST have a body to operate in it - just as with gravity, what goes up must come down. This is what is written in the Bible, and what God has chosen. If you don't agree, take it up with God - He is in charge of this. 2nd Jerry6593 - You are AGAINST the Bible in saying that it is heresy that humans are a three part being (body, soul, spirit). God said that people are created in HIS image. If God has three parts (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) 1 John 5:7, then people also have three parts (body, soul, spirit) 1 Thessalonians 5:23. With these two scriptures you can see God is three in one, and people are three in one - anything else is HERESY.
---Leslie on 7/27/10

The "consciousness" is THE SOUL/spirit.

The "bible" can only make a person become a READER/OBEYER, not a "living soul" that has a peaceful/heavenly spirit.

Matthew 10:28
"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul...".
---more_excellent_way on 7/27/10

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.


Genesis 12:13 Say, I pray thee, thou [art] my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake, and my soul shall live because of thee.

A SOUL is a person and NOT part of a person
---francis on 7/27/10

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The context of Ez 18 is NOT that souls (the invisible component of our human nature) die, but that the PERSON who sins shall be punished for his sins (barring repentance and forgiveness), and his guilt will not extend to his family members, especially descendants, as was taught previously in the Torah.

Here "soul" is clearly used as a part for the whole (as in "Over 270 souls perished when the ship sank".)
---Cluny on 7/27/10

the definition of the word,awareness,sense of self,sense of right and of my favorite passages proverbs 23 7,as a man thinks that also shall he be,a related passage galatians 6 7 thru 9,my point is being aware of God,and his word is a better way to live,and actually the only way.
---tom2 on 7/27/10

Leslie: "People are spirits in a body with a soul (mind, will, emotions)."

That's not what the Bible says. That's a pagan myth.

'atheist': Consider this:

When Jesus returns to resurrect us, we that love Him will be given perfect, youthful bodies. Our characters will remain at our best state, and our wisdom will increase forever.

Those who do not love Him will be destroyed by the brightness of His coming.

Your choice!
---jerry6593 on 7/27/10

//Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine, as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. //

What Ez 18:4 says in context "is that the soul that sins, it shall die...". "but..." v.5 (a conjunction to v. 4) "if a man be.... and do...[list down to v. 19]...he shall surely live."

Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die...
Eze 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins...and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Eze 18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
---aka.joseph on 7/26/10

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if jesus is god, and god created creation, why "on earth" would he not have the ability to do what he needed to do, or needs to do, on earth, at anytime he pleases?

What has caused god to become so limited in his abilities?

And---god supposedly made man in his own image, so what's the big deal about appearing on earth? Apparently he is completely equipped to do so.
---atheist on 7/26/10

People are spirits in a body with a soul (mind, will, emotions). Since the real us is our spirit-man, we can NOT be on Earth without a body, or we are dead. This is why Jesus, who is God, had to come in a body to Earth - He could NOT operate here on Earth otherwise. This is also why demons must have a body to possess - they can NOT operate here on Earth otherwise.
---Leslie on 7/26/10

It's just another way of asking "Is the soul immortal" The answer is definitely NOT. Ez.18.4.
Fundamentalists believe the Book of Mormon that says "The soul can never die" Alma.42.9
---1st_cliff on 7/26/10


Consider this:

When you are young, say seven years old, you have a "consciousness".

At twenty, you clearly have another, more "mature" in some ways and quite "immature" in others.

At sixty, you may think that the years have seasoned your consiousness and it/you possess something called "wisdom".

At eighty, mental debilitation may leave you and your consciousness in a state that remembers little, including the names of those you love.

If you die at any of these ages/stages, which consciousness would remain outside the body? Which version of ourselves would meet what version of others in "heaven"? Which consciousness would be "judged"?
---atheist on 7/26/10

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PT 2. Jesus says it best in John 3:13
NCV(New century version)
"The only one who has ever gone up to heaven is the One who came down from heaven-the Son of Man."
---Candice on 7/26/10

no. the bible said the dead know nothing at all.We rest in the graves until the ressurection Jesus referred to Lazurus' death as a "sleep".
When John saw the revelations in the book of revelations, all it is are visions in his future what is to come, not what is already happening.Same goes for all the visions seen by the disciples in the NT. I'll explain more in pt2.
---candice on 7/26/10

Can our consciousness exist without a living body to support it?


Psalms 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth, in that very day his thoughts perish.

If the bible is to believed, when a person dies his THOUGHTS perish.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.

Ecclesiastes 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished

Ok so his MEMORY also perishes, And no dead person has any new experience so NO thoughts at all at dead.
---francis on 7/26/10

Our "consciousness" (self-being, CONSCIENCE) definitely will exist without us having a physical body, but only after the final judgement.

Contrary to what is commonly taught, there should be no "self abasement" (no belittlement or denial of "self being", Colossians 2:18, 25). We need to be fully aware of who we are...and "BE" who we are in order to relate to and identify with "I am who I am" (Exodus 3:14). Truly knowing our creator is the ultimate awareness/consciousness and can only be correctly done by a genuine human being (a "son of man", son of "in His image man").

In scripture, Gods' true message is found by noticing His advice on how to be truly human.
---more_excellent_way on 7/26/10

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