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Hell Bounds Sins

What do you think is the Number ONE sin that sends a person to hell? (excluding Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit-we all know that is the unpardonable sin).

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Ruben- Notice Jude does say these things are 'placed before us as an example' (Jude 7). This indicates to me that the 'eternal fire' is symbolic, because Jude is using the account of Sodom as a 'warning example', not that he is teaching the 'fire' is still literally burning. The fire that rained down over Sodom, whilst it has finished, has been successful in that Sodom has never been rebuilt. So even though the literal fire has stopped, it can be said to be 'eternal fire', because Sodom has never been allowed to re-appear. Destroyed with no hope of a return.

So too with the 'everlasting fire' (Mt.25:41), and the 'Lake of Fire' (Re.20:10). All and everything sent there will be destroyed forever, with no hope of return.
---David8318 on 9/1/10


What is symbolic however, is the description of eternal destruction- eg. 'the everlasting fire' (Mt.25:41) and 'the Lake of Fire' (Rev.20:10) for reasons discussed previously.

--David8318 on 8/31/10


And what you are not getting is, Jude says "are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire" Which you have admitted as real 'FIRE'

Which eternal fire his he talking about? Same one Jesus and Rev mentions. How it is real fire then and then can all of the sudden becomes symbolic.
---Ruben on 9/1/10


David8318* Ruben asks, 'tell me why is your interpretation of scripture correct'?

The Bible interprets itself. The Bible is the authority and I believe what the Bible teaches, as explained in my previous posts which have gone uncontested.

First, scripture no where tell us it is the final authorithy. Second, if it is, then why are their many disagreeing among themselfs and all say they are correct, who determines that issue? You!

David8318 * No one has challenged the fact that the 'wild beast' with '7 heads and 10 horns' is symbolic. Thus, what it is thrown into to destroy it is also symbolic (Rev.19:20).

Then in Rev 5:6 " a lamb like slain" is symbolic, therefore it is not Jesus!
---Ruben on 9/1/10


Ruben asks, 'should we do away with God the saviour as well', because false religion also worships 'a God'.

This is a defeatist attitude. Of course true religion should not 'stop' simply because others have got it wrong. My point is that false religion - 'Babylon the Great' - with her false doctrines have no place in God's word the Bible.

There's been false religion ever since Cain and Abel. Jehovah's people have always had to contend with false religion right throughout history. It's ignorance to suggest one should abandon God simply because false religion believes in its false gods. God has provided his word the Bible so that false doctrine (eg 'hell') can be exposed for what it is- False.
---David8318 on 8/31/10


Ruben- If you insist eternal life is also symbolic, that's your prerogative. I do not believe eternal life to be symbolic because eternal destruction/death is real.

What is symbolic however, is the description of eternal destruction- eg. 'the everlasting fire' (Mt.25:41) and 'the Lake of Fire' (Rev.20:10) for reasons discussed previously.

If you want to believe eternal life is symbolic, then eternal destruction is also symbolic. That's where the comparison lies, but one which I believe is inaccurate. It's inaccurate to compare the reality of eternal life with the symbolic description of eternal destruction.
---David8318 on 8/31/10




Ruben asks, 'tell me why is your interpretation of scripture correct'?

The Bible interprets itself. The Bible is the authority and I believe what the Bible teaches, as explained in my previous posts which have gone uncontested. No one has challenged the fact that the 'wild beast' with '7 heads and 10 horns' is symbolic. Thus, what it is thrown into to destroy it is also symbolic (Rev.19:20).

As you keep reminding everyone, you can't have the symbolic mixed up with the literal. It's either one or the other. Either the 'wild beast' and the 'lake of fire' are literal, or they're symbolic.

As the 'wild beast' is obviously symbolic, so too the 'false prophet' and 'hades', so also is the 'Lake of Fire' which destroys them all.
---David8318 on 8/31/10


The NT interprets sin as "unbelief". Unbelief is the rejection of the supreme revelation as it is found in the Person of Jesus Christ. The outcome of such rejection is judgment....[Resistance to the truth of God revealed by the Spirit of God and produces moral and spiritual blindness}....THE ROOT CAUSE OF THE PROBLEMS OF HUMANITY is, humanity's estrangement from God. How come? Well, because of sin. The Bible describes sin as an attitude that personifies sin as rebellion against God. Rebellion was at the root of the problem for Adam and Eve, and has been at the root of humanity's plight ever since.
---catherine on 8/31/10


'Hell-fire' is traceable to Ancient Babylon. Today, false religion is described as 'Babylon the Great' (Rev.18) and imitates its ancient counterpart. That's why 'hell-fire' is a doctrine found in nearly all major false religious organisations- Christendom, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism etc...

---David8318 on 8/29/10

And all of those groups also have a god. Should that mean that we should do away with God the Saviour as well....
---Ruben on 8/31/10


There is no such place as an eternal burning 'hell'. Jesus' use of 'fire' at Mt.25:41, Rev.20:10 and other places was symbolic. Symbolic of complete destruction with no hope of return.

--David8318 on 8/29/10

Is it also symbolic for the righteous into eternal life.v 46
---Ruben on 8/31/10


The easy answer is of course, none. There is no sin that sends a person to 'hell-fire' because such a thing does not exist. It certainly is not a Bible teaching.

---David8318 on 8/30/10

I disagree with you, tell me why is your interpretation of scripture correct? Who gave you the authorithy to determine to be infallible in scripture
---Ruben on 8/31/10




David8318 Ruben- Yes I do believe God used real fire and sulphur to 'burn down' Sodom and Gomorrah. God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah with fire and sulphur.

Jude said it is example to come. If it was real fire then how can Rev 20:10 all of the sudden be symbolic?

David8318 * But when the destruction of Sodom was complete, the fire and sulphur stopped, didn't it. Unless you believe fire is still raining down out of the skies over Sodom?

Yes it stop, but Jude said next one is eternal(Ever-lasting) fire!


---Ruben on 8/31/10


Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


Jhn 3:19-20 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Rejecting the Savior is what sends people to Hell.
---Donna66 on 8/30/10


So allowing time for Ruben and Ruben Ruiz to decide whether or not they believe 'the wild beast' with '7 heads and 10 horns' is literal, I will address the blog question.

What is the number one sin that send a person to hell?

The easy answer is of course, none. There is no sin that sends a person to 'hell-fire' because such a thing does not exist. It certainly is not a Bible teaching.

'Hell-fire' is a false doctrine of 'Babylon the Great', and can be found in all Her false religious organisations. False preachers within these false religious organisations play mind games with their flocks using the false 'hell-fire' doctrine, fraudulently extorting money from their flocks.
---David8318 on 8/30/10


RubenR- the reason for my post's here are not so much to convince anyone to follow a particular interpretation, but to expose the false doctrine of 'hell-fire'.

There is no such place as an eternal burning 'hell'. Jesus' use of 'fire' at Mt.25:41, Rev.20:10 and other places was symbolic. Symbolic of complete destruction with no hope of return.

'Hell-fire' is traceable to Ancient Babylon. Today, false religion is described as 'Babylon the Great' (Rev.18) and imitates its ancient counterpart. That's why 'hell-fire' is a doctrine found in nearly all major false religious organisations- Christendom, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism etc...

'Hell-fire' is a tool for false preachers to use to control the minds of their unwary flocks.
---David8318 on 8/29/10


So Ruben Ruiz also believes there is either a human or a beast wandering around with 'ten horns and seven heads'.

Nothing is literally burning in fire. As explained previously, the 'fire' at Rev.20:10 is symbolic of complete destruction.

It's symbolic because as explained before, however one interprets the '7 headed 10 horned' wild beast, it is also symbolic. It is representative, it has to be, otherwise you believe either a human or a beast literally has '10 horns and 7 heads'.

As for the 'false prophet', this is the wild beast seen 'ascending out of the earth with 2 horns as of a lamb' (Rev.13:11) which performs signs in front of the '7 headed, 10 horned' wild beast. Re,13:14 & 19:20. It is also symbolic.
---David8318 on 8/29/10


The result is that 'fire' at Mt.25:41 and Re.20:10 is for Ruben literal, forcing him to believe fire can burn spirit creatures when the Bible clearly shows fire does not (Da.3:25). The 'fire' in Mt.25:41 & Re.20:10 is thus symbolic.


David wants us to believe in his interpretation of scripture, sorry!
---Ruben_Ruiz on 8/28/10


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Even if the 'wild beast' & 'false prophet' are human, the point is they are symbolic of something, what ever your understanding is. Even if the 'wild beast' is a human (and I don't believe it to be)- do you believe there is a human with 'ten horns and seven heads'?

---David8318 on 8/28/10

David is force to believe that the False prophet spoke of in Rev 20 has to be symbolic, other wise how can he explain that the beast is symbolic but the prophet is not but yet one is burning in eternal fire.(Both are in the same place)
---Ruben_Ruiz on 8/28/10


Ruben highlights the serious error and danger of being led by false doctrines.

The Ancient Babylonian false religion was composed of 3 important doctrines- triadic worship (later fashioned by Hellenic philosophers into a triune god), hell-fire and immortality of the human soul. It wouldn't surprise me if these 3 doctrines form the backbone of Ruben's religious beliefs.

The result is that 'fire' at Mt.25:41 and Re.20:10 is for Ruben literal, forcing him to believe fire can burn spirit creatures when the Bible clearly shows fire does not (Da.3:25). The 'fire' in Mt.25:41 & Re.20:10 is thus symbolic.

Regarding false religion today known as 'Babylon the Great', the warning is to 'Get out of her'. Re.18:4.
---David8318 on 8/28/10


Ruben- I've said all along that Jesus' use of 'fire' is symbolic of complete destruction. So where do you get the idea it's my belief that only the 'false prophet' is 'burning'? You keep forgetting- it's you who believes the fire is literal.

Even if the 'wild beast' & 'false prophet' are human, the point is they are symbolic of something, what ever your understanding is. Even if the 'wild beast' is a human (and I don't believe it to be)- do you believe there is a human with 'ten horns and seven heads'?

Of course there isn't! What ever your understanding- the 'wild beast' is symbolic. So is the 'fire' it is sent to- symbolic of complete destruction, also symbolising the complete destruction of Satan & 'death'. Re.20:10,14.
---David8318 on 8/28/10


Ruben- Yes I do believe God used real fire and sulphur to 'burn down' Sodom and Gomorrah. That's the operative phrase- 'burn down'. I would say destroyed, like a house that's 'burned down' is destroyed- God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah with fire and sulphur.

But when the destruction of Sodom was complete, the fire and sulphur stopped, didn't it. Unless you believe fire is still raining down out of the skies over Sodom?

No, the literal fire and sulphur has stopped. So again the 'fire' Jude speaks of is also symbolic of complete destruction with no hope of return (Jude 7). No return stressed by the fact that the fire is 'eternal' or 'everlasting'. Sodom has never returned or been rebuilt.
---David8318 on 8/28/10


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FIRE, is a preferred means of destruction especially for things associated with extreme defilement or EVIL.
---catherine on 8/28/10


Ruben made his understanding of whether literal fire can burn spirit creatures only after 5 attempts. But even then, Ruben didn't directly answer the question. Evidently, Ruben knows literal fire cannot burn spirit creatures, but yet his belief in 'hell-fire' forces him to conclude otherwise despite scripture teaching to the contrary.

Teachings such as when a spirit creature was sent to save 3 Israelites from Nebuchadnezzar's furnace (Dan.3:25). The spirit creature ('like the Son of God' KJV) was seen in the furnace with the Israelites. The spirit creature was not 'tormented' or burned by the fire.

Thus, Jesus use of 'fire' (Mt.25:41 & Re.20:10) is not literal but symbolic. Symbolic of complete destruction with no return.
---David8318 on 8/28/10


David8318* So Ruben's obvious answer is 'yes,

If it is obvious, why the (fifth attempt.)
And David it does not force me, scripture is clear! In Rev 20:10 the Devil(spirit creature) Beast( Not sure if you think it is also a Spirirt creature or not) and the False prophet( Human Being) are thrown in the same lake of fire, but according to you only the false prophet is burning.


David8318* This understanding of Ruben is out of harmony with scripture because a spirit creature saved 3 Israelites from Nebuchadnezzar's burning furnace- Dan.3:25. .

Because of God: "If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to save us from it, and he will rescue us from your hand, O king" v 17
---Ruben on 8/27/10


David8318 * To believe literal fire can burn spirit creatures is absurd. Jesus at Mt.25:41 and Rev.20:10 (and other places) used 'fire' symbolically- representative of complete destruction with no return.

"And the angels(Spirit creatures) who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own homethese he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. 7In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire . "

You do believe that Sodom and Gomorrah are burn down by real fire, right?
---Ruben on 8/27/10


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So Ruben's obvious answer is 'yes, I believe literal fire can burn spirit creatures'. Ruben believes the fire Jesus refers to in Mt.25:41 and Rev.20:10 is literal, which forces him to believe fire can burn spirit creatures.

This understanding of Ruben is out of harmony with scripture because a spirit creature saved 3 Israelites from Nebuchadnezzar's burning furnace- Dan.3:25. The furnace was so hot, it killed those throwing the Israelites in.

To believe literal fire can burn spirit creatures is absurd. Jesus at Mt.25:41 and Rev.20:10 (and other places) used 'fire' symbolically- representative of complete destruction with no return.

More attention should be given to God's word than to those of uninspired writings.
---David8318 on 8/27/10


David8318* Do you think Jesus was teaching literal fire can burn spirit creatures? Or was Jesus using the term 'fire' symbolically? (Original question directed to Ruben 8/18/10 regarding Mt.25:41)

And the answer given already:

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.(Rev 20:10)

"[Jesus] shall come from the heavens in glory with his angelic host,... but the wicked, clothed in eternal sensibility, he will commit to the eternal fire , along with the evil demons" (ibid., 52).
Justin Martyr
---Ruben on 8/26/10


You're having a real hard time with this question aren't you?

---David8318 on 8/26/10

David,

Jesus spoke more about Hell/Fire(Literal, just to make sure you clearly understand me) than he did about Heaven. I believe you are having a Hard time with it.
---Ruben on 8/26/10


Ruben- I didn't realise a question could be so difficult for someone. Here goes for the fifth attempt.

Do you think Jesus was teaching literal fire can burn spirit creatures? Or was Jesus using the term 'fire' symbolically? (Original question directed to Ruben 8/18/10 regarding Mt.25:41)

You're having a real hard time with this question aren't you?

You answer my question, and I'll play along. But as you believe the 'wild beast' is literal, (and human to boot) you must believe an animal (Lamb) was standing on Mt.Zion. Rev.14:1.
---David8318 on 8/26/10


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Luke 9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
---micha9344 on 8/25/10


The 'wild beast' of Revelation has 'ten horns and seven heads' (Rev.13:1). Do you think Jesus was teaching humans literally can have 'ten horns and seven heads'? Or was Jesus' use of the 'wild beast' symbolic?
---David8318 on 8/25/10

No, on both questions, but we do find out that the beast is a man (Rev 13:17). Besides he is not the only going to the lake of fire, the false prophet is joining him also. Are you going to tell me the false prophet is symbolic?

I'll play your game, Rev 14:1 says "Then I looked and behold, a "Lamb standing on Mount Zion" Was the Author really saying a animal(Lamb) was standing there?
---Ruben on 8/25/10


Ruben- So do you think Jesus was teaching literal fire can burn spirit creatures? Or was Jesus using the term 'fire' symbolically?

The 'wild beast' of Revelation has 'ten horns and seven heads' (Rev.13:1). Do you think Jesus was teaching humans literally can have 'ten horns and seven heads'? Or was Jesus' use of the 'wild beast' symbolic?
---David8318 on 8/25/10


Again, my original question being, do you think literal fire can burn spirit creatures? Or was Jesus using the term 'fire' symbolically?
---David8318 on 8/20/10

I will let Jesus and the Early Church Fathers answer you:

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.(Rev 20:10)

Here you have the Devil(spirit creature) and the beast and false prophet(human beings)

"[Jesus] shall come from the heavens in glory with his angelic host,... but the wicked, clothed in eternal sensibility, he will commit to the eternal fire, along with the evil demons" (ibid., 52).
Justin Martyr
---Ruben on 8/22/10


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Ruben- I believe you've misunderstood me. The granting of 'eternal life' is associated with a 'cutting off' for others. These eventualities are real.

What is figurative, as I've previously said is Jesus' description of how the wicked are 'cut off'. These ones that are 'cut off' are thrown into the 'everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels'.

Again, my original question being, do you think literal fire can burn spirit creatures? Or was Jesus using the term 'fire' symbolically?
---David8318 on 8/20/10


Ruben- Yes, 'those who didn't feed,cloth,sick and visit him', would be consigned to the 'everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels'. Mt.25:41-46.

Notice the 'everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels.' So those not treating Christ's brothers kindly would suffer the same fate as what had been initially 'prepared for the Devil and his angels.'

So I come back to my original question to you- Do you think that literal fire can burn spirit creatures? Or was Jesus using the term 'fire' symbolically?
---David8318 on 8/20/10


David8318* Ruben- regarding the figurative 'fire', you state- 'Then you would have to also say he was speaking figurative when he said "But the righteous into eternal life"V 46.'

Not so, because the final eventualities of the 2 groups are real- a 'cutting off' or 'everlasting life'. It is how Jesus describes the 'cutting off' is figurative- the 'everlasting fire'.

David, how is being cut-off everlasting?
If I am cut-off from the Football Team or being cut-off the phone with somebody eternal? I can try next year for the Footbal Team and call the person back on the phone!

---Ruben on 8/20/10


But notice only ONE group is granted 'eternal life'- those who show kindness to Christ's brothers. 'Eternal life' is not given to those who are 'cut off in the everlasting fire'.

---David8318 on 8/20/10

And notice that the other group was granted 'eternal fire'. Eternal means everlasting, so if you are saying that Jesus was speaking figurative in eternal fire than you have to say also in eternal life....It's either both figurative or literally!
---Ruben on 8/20/10


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Ruben- regarding the figurative 'fire', you state- 'Then you would have to also say he was speaking figurative when he said "But the righteous into eternal life"V 46.'

Not so, because the final eventualities of the 2 groups are real- a 'cutting off' or 'everlasting life'. It is how Jesus describes the 'cutting off' is figurative- the 'everlasting fire'.

But notice only ONE group is granted 'eternal life'- those who show kindness to Christ's brothers. 'Eternal life' is not given to those who are 'cut off in the everlasting fire'.

Surely eternal life should be given to those sent to 'hell' to experience punishment? But this is not so. Jesus says 'eternal life' is only granted to the righteous, NOT the wicked.
---David8318 on 8/20/10


David8318 * Ruben- 'the eternal fire' mentioned by Jesus and recorded at Matthew 25:41 was prepared 'for the devil and his angels.'

And for those who didn't feed,cloth,sick and visit him.v42-43

David8318 * Do you think that literal fire can burn spirit creatures? Or was Jesus using the term 'fire' symbolically?

Why would Jesus use a place that literlly be burning night and day(Gehnna) but meant symbolically?

David8318 * The eternal fire that Jesus spoke of completely burns up the wicked in a figurative sense- with no hope of return.

Then you would have to also say he was speaking figurative when he said "But the righteous into eternal life"V 46
---Ruben on 8/19/10


Ruben- 'the eternal fire' mentioned by Jesus and recorded at Matthew 25:41 was prepared 'for the devil and his angels.'

Do you think that literal fire can burn spirit creatures? Or was Jesus using the term 'fire' symbolically? Certainly 'the sheep' and 'the goats' mentioned in the same discourse are not literal, they are word pictures that represent two types of people. (Matthew 25:32,33) The eternal fire that Jesus spoke of completely burns up the wicked in a figurative sense- with no hope of return.

Your reference to burning 'day and night', do you get this from Rev.20:10? I agree that Gehenna and the 'Lake of Fire' of Revelation represent complete destruction with no hope of a return, described as 'second death' (20:14).
---David8318 on 8/18/10


Ruben- There is a difference between 1 John 1:9 and Romans 6:7.

Regarding 1 John 1:9, even after we confess our sins, we are still 'sinners'. Confession on its own doesn't lead to perfection. I do not believe confession 'acquits' a person of sin- 1 John 1:9 does not say that. Rather, confession is a request for forgiveness and to be 'cleansed from all unrighteousness'- unrighteous acts that come from being sinners.

Romans 6:7 is different in that the one 'who has died has been acquitted from his sin.' An acquittal of the sin that caused one to perform 'unrighteousness' from which he needed to confess. (1 Jo.1:9). The 'slate is wiped clean' of sin at DEATH, not confession. When resurrected, God will not judge based on past sins.
---David8318 on 8/18/10


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I would have to say, "UNBELIEF".
---catherine on 8/18/10


David8318* Ruben- I agree that Gehenna was always burning which meant nothing sent there came out, or survived- it was destroyed. But nothing living was sent there.

Then what does they mean:
"Then shall he say also unto them "(MT 25:41)
"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment" V46


David8318 * Jesus used 'Gehenna' to represent complete destruction with no hope of return.

A place that burns night and day!

David8318* I hear what you say regarding 1 Jo.1:9, but this does not negate what is stated at Romans 6:7.

Right, but they go hand to hand, God wipes the slate clean if we confess our sins.
---Ruben on 8/17/10


When apostate Jews began sacrificing 'sons and daughters' in the Valley of Hinnom and passing them through the fire, Jehovah expressed his utter abhorrence at such a grotesque practice saying that it was 'a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart. Jer.7:31.

---David8318 on 8/17/10

God is probably saying the same thing about abortion, but that is for another day. If you are saying because of the above scripture verse there is no "Lake of Fire" Well, first of all God never told them to do that and secondly God never sends anyone to hell, it is the fault of rebellious men and angels who have too much pride to acknowledge God as their Creator and Lord, and submit to Him.
---Ruben on 8/17/10


Ruben- I agree that Gehenna was always burning which meant nothing sent there came out, or survived- it was destroyed. But nothing living was sent there.

Jesus used 'Gehenna' to represent complete destruction with no hope of return.

When apostate Jews began sacrificing 'sons and daughters' in the Valley of Hinnom and passing them through the fire, Jehovah expressed his utter abhorrence at such a grotesque practice saying that it was 'a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart. Jer.7:31.

I hear what you say regarding 1 Jo.1:9, but this does not negate what is stated at Romans 6:7.

Lev.19:18 provides insight into God's view of holding grudges. God doesn't, neither should we.
---David8318 on 8/17/10


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Robyn- the Bible words Sheol, Hades and Gehenna are rendered by some translators as 'Hell'. The Bible I use transliterates these words in every place they are found.

So when you say 'There is a Hell', it depends on what you believe Sheol, Hades and Gehenna to represent? Do you understand 'Hell' to mean the grave, or a fiery place of eternal torment or something totally different?

According to Rev.21:8, the 'Lake of Fire' represents 'second death'- death from which there is no resurrection, as opposed to the first death. The 'wild beast and the false prophet', and 'death and Hades' which aren't persons are sent to the 'Lake of Fire' too. So the Lake of Fire is itself symbolic of complete destruction. Re.20:10-15.
---David8318 on 8/17/10


David8318 * Jesus never taught people would burn alive for all eternity in hellfire. Those who teach 'hellfire' do so by misrepresenting Jesus' words at Mark 9:43-48. The word Jesus used here is 'Gehenna'- a refuse dump outside Jerusalem.

And it was a dump place that was always burning!

David8318 Romans 6:7 says, 'For he who has died has been acquitted from his sin'. (God wipes the slate clean)

" If we confess are sins, God is faithful to us and forgives us and cleanse us."(1 JHn 1:19)


David8318* Leviticus 19:18 says, You must not... have a grudge against the sons of your people'. (Neither does God hold any grudges)

David, it reads "you must not".
---Ruben on 8/16/10


David8318: There is a Hell. You need to read your bible. Jesus will not be coming back as a Saviour. He will be coming back as the Judge of all mankind. You can read in many parts of your bible about hell. Look in your concordance and look up scriptures for hell. That is usually in the back of your bible,beloved. There is a hell! You should definitely read THE REVELATION. God does not lie. Revelation ch 19,20,21,22. Is very explicit. Very scary and very real.
---Robyn on 8/16/10


Shawn, I posted this here because I did not think that the moderators would post it where it needs to be.
I just wanted to say that I leave the argument since she has not returned to defend herself.
Come let us share in God's word and discuss as we used to.

I agree with Shawn...
Well said Micha!
---ginger on 8/16/10


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Kathr, you should have read what Shawn T stated. As God is my witness, you speak falsely about who I am and what I do, at the expense of using my wife in your statements. But that is not unusual for you, since you look for dirt to please yourself and not for edidying anyone.

MODERATORS - apparently I am not the only one who sees "through" kathr. Please do not let her posts post anylonger as she is causing dissemination (? spelling) on the Body of Christ. I know MarkV's responses are biblically based, no reason to attack him like kathr is doing.

Why is kathr attacking one another? Why do this kathr? Satan is the accuser of the brethren, right?
---Donna5535 on 7/30/10


Kathr, you should have read what Shawn T stated. As God is my witness, you speak falsely about who I am and what I do, at the expense of using my wife in your statements. But that is not unusual for you, since you look for dirt to please yourself and not for edidying anyone.
My wife did discover she was one of the Elect, she already believed the gospel of her salvation. What she discovered was the Truth about who God was, is and always will be.
You said,
"WE receive Jesus Christ into our lives. How else do you suppose He gets in there..by force?"
We receive Christ into our lives because we have been convicted of our rebellion against God, by the Holy Spirit. No conviction, no repentance, no salvation, no Christ.
---MarkV. on 7/29/10


-- Donna :

There being only one unpardonable sin, would make it the 'Number One' sin keeping people separate from the Lord?--ShawnMT 7/27/10

Sister, Who said anything about Christians!!! Being a little swifter to Hear what is being shared with you, will help when it comes to being slower in your wrath to speak of a Truth as incorrect reasoning.

--- Micha9344 :

Amen Sister, Well shared !!!

There is no sin that a True Christian would or could commit that would send them to hell.(Rom.8:1)---Micha9344 7/28/10

For the self-righteous or false christian's are the one who commit the Blasphemy of taking the Lord's name in vain, rendering & making Him of no effect in their lives.
---ShawnM.T. on 7/29/10


The belief that God has created hellfire for 'sinners to burn in hell' is not a Bible teaching. 'God is love'- such a grotesque teaching can only emanate from Satan.

This evil man-made false doctrine like the mysterious triune-trinty doctrine, had its origins in Babylon.

Jesus never taught people would burn alive for all eternity in hellfire. Those who teach 'hellfire' do so by misrepresenting Jesus' words at Mark 9:43-48. The word Jesus used here is 'Gehenna'- a refuse dump outside Jerusalem.

Romans 6:7 says, 'For he who has died has been acquitted from his sin'. (God wipes the slate clean)

Leviticus 19:18 says, You must not... have a grudge against the sons of your people'. (Neither does God hold any grudges)
---David8318 on 7/29/10


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Most you can somewhat tell by their fruits, but that is not true exact fact, for only God can see the heart. - MarkV


It is fact. Jesus said so in Matthew 7. Unless He didnt have his facts straight.
---JackB on 7/29/10


The question topic of this blog gives one definition of sin, i.e blasphemy. But to discuss this topic we also need to consider other definitions God gave us.
1: Sin is unbelief: John 16:8,9
2: Sin is transgression of the law: 1John3:4

As Jesus fulfilled the law it is therefore the sin of unbelief that the world will be convicted of: John16:8,9.
Hence for believers the question of this blog isn't relevant. Christians do not sin (1John3:6-9) as we believe on Jesus and are set free from the law of sin and death.

Unfortunately there are some in churches who turn back to the law and thereby reject God's salvation through their unbelief.
---Haz27 on 7/29/10


Donna, here I support your view. Genuine Christians do not commit the unpardonable sin. Imposters Christains do, since they were not of us. And there is many of those around. Most you can somewhat tell by their fruits, but that is not true exact fact, for only God can see the heart.
But for those who are in Christ, there is no condemnation. But they have to be in Christ. If they are not in Christ they continue the path they are in.
---MarkV. on 7/29/10


Well another one is..

TO THEM who RECEIVE HIM..John 1.

Receive and accept are to me the same thing.

WE receive Jesus Christ into our lives. How else do you suppose He gets in there..by force?

Or according to MarkV ,Mormons, or the NEW AGERS, He's already in there just waiting for you to discover His presence..

MarkV stated it was his job, not to preach the Gospel, but to bet and batter and humble people until the elect make this discovery( It's what he did with his wife....argue tooth and nail until she submitted to his doctrine THEN WALLA, she became the Elect...is that the Gospel? NO!!!

The ONLY SIN that sends anyone to hell is REJECTING the Gospel!!!!
---kathr4453 on 7/29/10


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mima, please give us book, chapter, and verse that use the formula "Accept the Lord Jesus Christ".
If I don't reject then I accept. Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be Saved.
This is nothing but a play on words. So what is trying to be proven? The name Elder is in the Bible. The name Cluny is not. Does Cluny exist even though the name is not in the Bible?
---Elder on 7/29/10


mima, please give us book, chapter, and verse that use the formula "Accept the Lord Jesus Christ".

John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Isaiah 55:6,7
Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:

Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
---JackB on 7/28/10


There is no sin that a true christian would or could commit that would send them to hell.
1Jhn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us, for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
For an unbeliever, it would be... unbelief.
For one that hasn't heard, they are without excuse, for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
For the self-righteous or false christian, it would be blasphemy, taking the Lord's name and making Him of no effect, rendering Him useless in their lives. (Probably a better way to say that).
---micha9344 on 7/28/10


1 JAMES 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law and yet offend in one point,he is guilty of all.
---RICHARD on 7/28/10


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Shawn M.T. your reasoning would make sense EXCEPT that Christians don't usually commit the unpardonable sin.

So that leaves us with believers in Christ Jesus - what would be the number one sin that they CONTINUALLY commit (as it says in 1st John, he explains the difference between sinning and practicing sin) because you and I both know there ARE Christians who SIN willfully and don't repent yet call themselves Christians...

I would say it's unforgiveness. Pride could be up there too.
---Donna5535 on 7/28/10


Many here have posted the right answer, i.e UNBELIEF IN JESUS CHRIST.

John 16:8,9 the world will be convicted of sin "because they believe not on me (Jesus)".

And unbelief includes remaining under the law Jesus fulfilled on our behalf.
---Haz27 on 7/28/10


atheist....you just don't get it.
---JIM on 7/28/10


Gosh, there is such a range of disagreement on this question - I still think it's unforgiveness.

Whoever asked about murderers, Revelation tells us, "there's no place in heaven for murderers."

And in Hebrews it tells us: Fornicators and Adulterers God will judge."

I still say it's UNFORGIVENESS because the bible says, "If you do not forgive others their trespassess, your heavenly Father won't forgive you of yours." HOw can God let someone into his home (Heaven) who won't forgive someone? What if the unforgiven person makes it to heaven, yet the one that won't forgive them doesn't make it? See my point?
---Donna5535 on 7/28/10


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\\Failure to accept the Lord Jesus Christ and what he has done will be the number one reason people end up in hell.
---mima on 7/27/10\\

mima, please give us book, chapter, and verse that use the formula "Accept the Lord Jesus Christ".
---Cluny on 7/27/10


-- Donna :

Sister, There being only one unpardonable sin would make it the 'Number One' sin keeping people separate from the Lord, wouldn't you say?

...but the question to ponder as we spread the Gospel is, What's the root cause that leads people into all sins, including Blasphemy, which is keeping them separated from boldly coming to the Lord...

Ralph Waldo Emerson said "The wise man in the storm prays to God, not for safety from danger, but deliverance from fear".

God hath not given us the spirit of fear, but of Power, Love & of a sound mind. Fear hath torment and he that feareth is not made Perfect in Love. Herein is our Love made Perfect, that we may have boldness in the Day of Judgment.
---Shawn.M.T. on 7/27/10


The only sin that will send a person to hell is to deny Jesus Christ.
---JIM on 7/27/10

So only atheists and agnostics go to hell?

So heaven will be filled with murderers, fornicators, liers, child molesters. Will Adolf Hitler be holding prayer meetings when he is not walking with god?
---atheist on 7/27/10


Donna5535,The #1 sin that sends one to hell(hades/sheol) is the Adamic sin passed on to all!
God provided a way out Jn.3.16.

Your daily sins are forgiven on an "ask for" basis!(in Jesus' name)
Too simple??....nope!
---1st_cliff on 7/27/10


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Read 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 & Revelation 21:8 -This lists ALL the sins that will send you to Hell, and not let you into Heaven. Since ALL people have told a lie, lying is one that will send you to Hell, unless you repent.
---Leslie on 7/27/10


Pride is not the basis of developing a root of bitterness towards a loved one who abused you (speaking of a family member I know). Unforgiveness is.

I think unforgiveness is the number one sin that sends people to hell. How can God let you into his home (Heaven) if you have unforgiveness, bitterness, resentment in your heart towards someone?
---Donna5535 on 7/27/10


I would say lack of faith or what the bible calls unbelief.

Not believing what God says and not trusting what God says.
---francis on 7/27/10


The only sin that will send a person to hell is to deny Jesus Christ.
---JIM on 7/27/10


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Cluny, you are right, it's a Bible Truth, you said,
"A Calvinist view says apart from God's mercy, we are all automatically hell-bound, even though we may have committed no overt sins."
You should know that is true, because He had mercy on you, and you are not heading to hell. Every descendant of Adam are automaticly going to hell because of the curse, unless God has mercy on them. "Enter not into judgment with your servant, for no one living is reighteous before You" Psalm 143:2.
"Surely ther is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins" Eccl. 7:20.
"Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me" Psalm 51L5.
---MarkV. on 7/27/10


Failure to accept the Lord Jesus Christ and what he has done will be the number one reason people end up in hell.
---mima on 7/27/10


A Calvinist view says apart from God's mercy, we are all automatically hell-bound, even though we may have committed no overt sins.

However, in classical Christian moral theology, pride is the basis of all sins.
---Cluny on 7/27/10


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