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Kingdom Filled With Violence

What does this mean? "the Kingdom is filled with violence, and the violent take it by force."

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 ---Donna5535 on 7/28/10
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kathr4453 on 7/30/10 the Kingdom of Heaven is the earthly Kingdom John the Baptist announced, but Christ could not fulfill until He rose from teh Dead and will fulfill when He returns.

Amen Kath
Israel's kingdom is earhthly

Acts 1: 6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
---michael_e on 7/31/10


kathrn, not so. Jesus said: "My kingdom is not of this world." Jn.18:36. But soon it will be: "And the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become of our Lord, and of his Christ, and he shall reign for ever and ever." Rv.11:15.
---Eloy on 7/31/10


**look in a greek english translation.
Violance doe snot meanwhat it apears to mean in that passage.**

Transliteration, as I can't get Greek to type here:

apo de twn imeron, iwannou to baptistou ews arti e basileia twn ouranwn biazetai kai biastai arpazousin auten

Well, francis, just what DO the key words "biazetai", "biastai" and "arpazousin" mean in this verse?

If you're a Greek scholar, this should be easy.

BTW, by "concordance", I hope you're not referring to the lexica in the back of Strong's. They are convenient tools for the average layman, but useless for serious lexigraphical and philological study.
---Cluny on 7/30/10


NO! One of PRIDE Donna!

Donna the wounds of a friend are more precious than the flattering lips of liars who just want to get along! If I wounded you, it is in love.
---kathr4453 on 7/30/10

WOW kathr4453 - and you don't think you're judging me by calling me PRIDE?

Wake up and smell your own manure! You ARE mean-spirited.

I don't have pride, I want to learn, that's why I post here. I don't judge people like YOU do. And I don't use CAPS and yell at people like you do either.

If you are witnessing to people like this, then you are very very deceived and warped kathr4453. Take those sour grapes you have and go somewhere else please. Thank you (huggs)) my wounds are in love too!
---Donna5535 on 7/30/10


Eloy, the Kingdom of Heaven is the earthly Kingdom John the Baptist announced, but Christ could not fulfill until He rose from teh Dead and will fulfill when He returns.

HOWEVER, the Kingdom of GOD is within. Kingdom NOW teachers do not know the difference. We ( the Church) are translated out of this present evil age and translated into the Kingdom of His dear Son. We are more than conquerers, and are overcomers.

The violent cannot take the Church by force, enter it by force. The gates of hell will NEVER prevail against the church.
---kathr4453 on 7/30/10




\\all of us holy prophets and saints and apostles and children from God whom all suffer persecution from th\\

Jesus told me to tell you that you're a false prophet.
---Cluny on 7/30/10


look in a greek english translation.
Violance doe snot meanwhat it apears to mean in that passage.

this is a concordance moment
---francis on 7/30/10


John the Baptist was wrongly arrested and thrown into prison, and Jesus said: "From the days of John the Baptist up to now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force." Mt.11:12. Jesus is speaking about the people of his heavenly kingdom, all of us holy prophets and saints and apostles and children from God whom all suffer persecution from the sinful nonChristians who abide outside of the kingdom of heaven, and they take us by force. And the violent who violated and took John, they then violently chopped off his head.
---Eloy on 7/30/10


Donna, you say God felt sorry for you and gave you the spirit of discernment. So he gave you a gift so you could peer into the soul of man and make a judgment call as to whether one is mean spirited or maybe JUST BOLD enough to tell the truth. Rather than peering into a man's heart, you might want to read the Bible and exercise discernment between truth and lies. Only those who eat MEAT are exercised to discern. You seem to eat anything anyone tells you, and when one points out it's not in scripture what then is your attitude? One of thankfulness? NO! One of PRIDE Donna!

Donna the wounds of a friend are more precious than the flattering lips of liars who just want to get along!!! proverbs!!! If I wounded you, it is in love.
---kathr4453 on 7/30/10


\\Cluny, how many Jews TODAY, because of the Crusades HATE Christianity, and with that have turned to Allah and speak Arabic?\\

None that I know.

How many Jews do YOU actually know who became mahometans out of hatred for Christianity? Be specific in the number.

As for the Inquisition, I suggest you read CHARACTERS OF THE INQUISITION by Thomas Walsh.

Did you know that common criminals would claim to be heretics because the conditions in the Inquisition's jails were more humane?

And Jews who had always been known as Jews were left strictly alone by the Inquisition.
---Cluny on 7/30/10




That is the most IGNORANT comment I have ever heard!
---kathr4453 on 7/30/10

kathr4453, this is like the fifth post I've seen of yours where you are being mean-spirited. You did it to me and many others.

May I ask what is wrong? Do you need prayer for your mean-spirited statements?

The bible tells us to speak the truth in LOVE. You do not do that, may I ask why?

Just curious.
---Donna5535 on 7/30/10


Donna, Where's your discernment? WE DO NOTHING BY FORCE!---kathr4453 on 7/29/10

kathr4453, like I've said in a previous post, this is like the fifth time you come across with mean-spirited words. WHY do you choose to do this?

Why be mean-spirited?

This is like the FIFTH time I've seen your responses filled with ANGER, may I ask why?

Moderator - I know I keep saying the same thing on kathr's posts, but please let this post, okay?

She really needs to see how mean-spirited she's being. And in love, we are to speak the truth, so I do love you kathr, but please, can you please be more gentle in your responses and not so accusatory? I never claimed to know what it meant and you missed that point COMPLETELY.
---Donna5535 on 7/30/10


Were it not for the Crusaders, today you'd have to run around in a burlap bag, speak Arabic, and pray to Allah, kathr.

Give God thanks for the Crusaders and your freedom in Christ, instead of judging them!
---Cluny on 7/29/10


Cluny, how many Jews TODAY, because of the Crusades HATE Christianity, and with that have turned to Allah and speak Arabic?

That is the most IGNORANT comment I have ever heard!

My FREEDOM In Christ came through CALVARY ALONE, not some earthly army trying to capture Jerusalem and renaming it!

Should we all be thankful for the Inquisitions too?
---kathr4453 on 7/30/10


Were it not for the Crusaders, today you'd have to run around in a burlap bag, speak Arabic, and pray to Allah, kathr.

Give God thanks for the Crusaders and your freedom in Christ, instead of judging them!
---Cluny on 7/29/10


That's funny Cluny. Pope John APOLOGIZED in 2000 to the Arabic community for the crusades!!!

ROME again( The RCC is the old Roman Empire in DRAG) wanted to occupy/own Jerusalem, just as she does today.. Pope John and Arafat were really GOOD FRIENDS and made a covenant together! Islam LOVES Mary too! Both hate that Jerusalem is filled with God's People Israel returning to her land as prophesied! Isaiah 14 for beginners/ Ezekiel 36/ Zechariah 12-14!

Don't be so neive!
---kathr4453 on 7/30/10


\\I know during the Crusades, the RCC tried with her army to take the Kingdom\\

You don't know too much about either the Roman Catholic Church OR the Crusades, do you?

The Crusades were sparked by the mahometans killing and enslaving members of the ancient Christian communities in the Holy Land, most of whom were NOT Roman Catholic (or Protestant, either).

Were it not for the Crusaders, today you'd have to run around in a burlap bag, speak Arabic, and pray to Allah, kathr.

Give God thanks for the Crusaders and your freedom in Christ, instead of judging them!
---Cluny on 7/29/10


Donna, Where's your discernment? WE DO NOTHING BY FORCE!

3. The "violent" who take the Kingdom by force are those who have such earnest love for Christ that they let nothing get between themselves and Him.
---Cluny on 7/28/10


Those who try to take the Kingdom by forced entry are the ones who try to ENTER IN another way..not through the narrow gate..Christ Himself.

I know during the Crusades, the RCC tried with her army to take the Kingdom ( Jerulsalem) by force. There is even a movie called the Kingdom of Heaven about this very thing. Anti-christ will too try to take the kingdom by force, however when Jesus comes again The Kingdoms of the world will be theKingdom belonging to Christ alone!!!
---kathr4453 on 7/29/10


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okay I've read them ALL Cluny, now I've got to re-read them and study them so they get engraved in my heart.

Thank you sooo very much...Cluny-my study guide!!! Thank you!!!

Oh and everyone else, I read and loved your answers as well so thank you too, you are loved as much as Cluny.
---Donna5535 on 7/29/10


A person cannot "force" themselves to have a TRULY peaceable and civilized mindset by following the dictates of a book (which is what people used to do in order to pretend to be Godly).

Developing a "heaven"-like (peaceful) mindset can only be truly done willingly/voluntarily so that "heaven" (a heart of gold) is not obtained artificially with "force" (that would be a "violent" seige of the "heaven"ly kingdom/temperament).


The "kingdom" must FIRST be INNER...

Luke 17:21......KJV
"behold, the kingdom of God is within you".

...other versions say "in the midst of you".
---more_excellent_way on 7/29/10


\\YES, now could you explain to me what this verse means? I really don't understand it at all.\\

I've given you four possible interpretations already, condensed from the notes in the Orthodox Study Bible. (Keep in mind these are condensations, it would take more than 125 words to give them all.)

Leslie gave a good one, too. larry's answer expanded on one of mine.

These 5 views are not contradictory, but give different yet true perspectives on this apothegmatum.
---Cluny on 7/28/10


Could this be the verse you're talking about?

From KJV

Matthew 11:12
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
---Cluny on 7/28/10

YES, now could you explain to me what this verse means? I really don't understand it at all.
---Donna5535 on 7/28/10


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The Kingdom of Heaven is the Gospel and the consensus from commentators is that "suffers violence" is interpreted as "by force".

By force referring to the dead and sick being made quick and whole, the blind given sight and those in spiritual bondage freed from Satan, all in spectacular fashion. ....or so I read.


Good question.
---larry on 7/28/10


More possible interpretations:

1. The Jewish opposition to the Gospel.

2. The Kingdom of Heaven breaking into the world with power.

3. The "violent" who take the Kingdom by force are those who have such earnest love for Christ that they let nothing get between themselves and Him.
---Cluny on 7/28/10


This scripture is talking about Spiritual Warfare. The devil and his demons are battling God for your spirit and soul on a daily basis. This is why Christians must be on their guard and be violent in their prayers and faith. Otherwise the devil will win the battle. Look at it from a soldiers perspective. America's troops are in war in Irac, and Afganistan - they must be violent so the enemy will not win. We as Christians are soldiers in God's army. We must be violent so our enemy the devil will not win. We must know our enemy and his tactics, so we can counteract them. We must know his weaknesses, so we can defeat him.
---Leslie on 7/28/10


Could this be the verse you're talking about?

From KJV

Matthew 11:12
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
---Cluny on 7/28/10


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Now, who are the violent? The violent are Herod and those who worked with him to imprison John (Luke 3:19-20) and will soon behead him. They are attacking the kingdom of heaven by attacking the forerunner of the King and the first preacher who proclaimed that the kingdom of God was at hand. They took John "by force" and they will soon take the King (Jesus Christ) by force as well. The devil and the world will not win, but the kingdom of heaven will suffer much violence through their attacks. The minions of Satan are still attacking the work of God on this earth and will do so until the King comes back in power and great glory.
---Lea on 7/28/10


Cluny, your explanation would make sense to me except for one thing....the Kingdom of God is not eat nor drink, but righteousness, peace and Joy in the Holy Ghost.

So 1) Jesus didn't do anything violently.
and 2) Jesus didn't take anything, it was GIVEN to him...capesh? That means understand? in Italian..lol.

So I'm still not clear on what this verse means. Cluny, can you please go and study it some more? Thank you.
---Donna5535 on 7/28/10


On Earth as it is in Heaven?
evil men prosper and
righteous men die....
---kevin on 7/28/10


I don't know what verse or version you're quoting.

The version of the verse I know goes, "The Kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent seize it by force."

I see this as the Lord letting His disciples know what was going to happen at His Crucifixion--He took the Kingdom of Heaven by force and opened it up to us, if we will only go in.
---Cluny on 7/28/10


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