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Work Of God With Salvation

John 6:29, says,"Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." Question: Does the work of God equate with salvation?

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 ---mima on 8/13/10
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No MarkV, that is not proper interpretaion of that verse. I say this becuse it says "In HIM". That means HE- Christ was chosen, not me personally or you personally.
It means that those in Christ are to be conformed to his image and that God planned this from the beginning.
I will say it again, God knows who will be saved but he does not do the choosing.

On a personal note, why is it that every one is wrong but you MarkV?
Not being snide or anything but you are not the only one that God gave the Bible to. How do you know YOUR interpretation is the right one?
---ginger on 9/4/10


ginger, your wrong again, it is not just Jesus who was chosen from the foundation of the world, He was chosen as a sacrifice for sin before times begin, but we also were chosen, but for the purpose of been God's children from the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless before Him in love:

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, "Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world," that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love"
I believe that passage is pretty clear that we where chosen from the foundation of the world whether you agree or not.
---MarkV. on 9/3/10


MarkV, It is only Christ that was chosen from the foundation of the world, not me. God absolutely knew I would respond to him when he came to me and drew me to him by his spirit..The Holy Spirit, from the foundation of the world, but I am not chosen like that. Only Christ is. We are to be conformed to Christ's image.
You don't understand scripture on this, MarkV.
You don't understand that God does not choose people to be saved. He KNOWS who will be saved.
He KNOWS who will respond ot his conviction of the Holy Spirit.
But he has chosen NO ONE. ONLY Christ.
You should understand that the conviction and drawing come first.
---ginger on 9/3/10


And to Answer you question MarkV, why don't ALL come? Well, they are guilty of the sin of unbelief.
God convicts ALL sinners but not all repent. It is because they don't believe what they see. That God is real. They want a sign as the Pharisees did.
Look at how the Pharisees reacted to Jesus. That should tell you why all people don't believe when God convicts them.
And please do not say that when Christians get together and the word of God is preached, God isn't there because scripture says otherwise. "Where 2 or 3 are gathered together, there I am in the midst of them".
Salvation starts with the conviction of sins.
---ginger on 9/3/10


Mark, how did you come to Christ when you yourself were a natural man?

By the Holy Spirit?

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned

How then can ANY man be saved, since it is the Holy Spirit that leads us to Christ?

The way to know youve taken scripture out of context is when is doesnt even fit the other verses around it.
---JackB on 9/3/10




Ginger, I'm very sorry you feel as you do considering God chose you from the foundation of the world to be His pricely possesion. That is not good enough. You have to take some glory with your free will, You said,
"MarkV seems to not understand that when God's word is preached to sinners(Romans 10:17), God is right there in the midst convicting them of their sins and drawing them to him."
You say that God is there convicting them, why are not all coming to Christ? Since conviction brings repentance?
And if you are saying, God is their convicting "a few and not all," then you are right back to God only convicting some and not everyone.
---MarkV. on 9/3/10


JackB,
I completetly agree with what you said.
MarkV seems to not understand that when God's word is preached to sinners(Romans 10:17), God is right there in the midst convicting them of their sins and drawing them to him. Asking them to confess their sins, repent and believe him.
It seems for some reason he forgets this part.
When God has called to them, they do repent and an believe. This DOES come from God.
Sinners must be shown their sin by God first. That is God all day long! He does it oh yes he does.
God (Holy Spirit) does the convicting(John 16:8-11)God does the drawing.(John 6:44)
---ginger on 9/3/10


Mark ... There is no need whatsoever to apologise when you answer me. It would help if you avoid bearing false witness against me.
---alan8566_of_uk on 9/3/10


Jack B, In answer to my statement that the lost cannot originate the love of God in their hearts, you said Amen. Then you said,
"Thats exactly why men need to ask Jesus Christ into their heart." If the lost don't have faith in Christ, don't love Him, and feel no conviction from the Holy Spirit that they have sinned against God, and they don't come to the light because they love darkness, why would they go to Christ? They only ask Jesus into their hearts when their hearts have already been changed. When they can see Him and believe in Him otherwise its as you said,
"how then did they come to Christ if they cannot understand the things of the Spirit? He is the One who leads us to Christ!" That is a fact. .
---MarkV. on 9/3/10


Ok Mark

1 Cor 2:14
the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God

1 Cor 2:10
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit:

Is this suggesting the all believers were never natural men at one point in their lives before Christ?

If they were, how then did they come to Christ if they cannot understand the things of the Spirit? He is the One who leads us to Christ!

Or is it possible that once again you are taking v.14 out of context as you have been taught to by your church?
---JackB on 9/2/10




//Jack, man is free to do what he wants, but he cannot originate the love of God in his heart.//

Amen to that!

Thats exactly why men need to ask Jesus Christ into their heart. When the Spirit convicts us of our sin we realize we are void of TRUE love and then we are directed towards CHrist who died for our sins and wants to bring His love into our hearts!

I would love to hear your interpretation of the parables in Matt 22 and Luke 14. You go first. Then Ill give you mine.
---JackB on 9/2/10


Alan, I know you supported me because I was correct. You did good. But you know that you and I cannot really discuss anything from Scripture. We can discuss our lives, in fact you and I have similar backgrounds. We could be great friends, and we can talk about life and our homes and families, but Scripture, is not one subject we can. when time passes by, I think we can, so I try, but then it all goes wrong. I know there is people out there that hate me, not a problem. People follow me around just to look for loopholes in my message. It's ok I can take that, but if I have to apologize every time I answer you, then it is not worth it to answer you even when you throw arrows sometimes at my statements. I leave you peace, as a brother in Christ.
---MarkV. on 9/2/10


MarkV ... It saddens me that in response to my last three (in fact my only) posts on this blog, which were all supporting you, you then make such a vitriolic and untruthful attack on me.
---alan8566_of_uk on 9/2/10


Alan, the only thing I jump on you for is your complaining. If you did not complain so much, anyone could discuss things with you about the Bible. But what I noticed from you is, that when you talk to someone about Scripture, the Scripture subject suddenly disappears and you become the subject. you want people to apologize, to stop calling you a liar, and you will continue to complain about it over and over and the subject of Scriptue is lost. That is why I try not to answer you. But you continue to throw your arrows at my post, insisting for me to answer you. I already know you do not believe what I do. As I said before, you can believe what you want. Your opinions about something in Scripture is only your opinions. Scripture is Truth.
---MarkV. on 9/1/10


Jack, man is free to do what he wants, but he cannot originate the love of God in his heart. His will is free in the sense that it is not controlled by any force outside himself. As the bird with a broken wing is "free" to fly but not able, so the natural man is free to come to God but not able.
"The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit, for they are foolishness to him, neither can he know them, for they are spiritually discerned" 1 Cor. 2:14.
How can he repent of his sin when he loves it? How can he come to God when he hates Him? Jesus said, "And this is the judgment, that light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather then the light, for their works were evil"
---MarkV. on 9/2/10


Are my responses being edited out?

Moderator? If so, why? Please send me an email.
---JackB on 9/1/10


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Once more I leap to support Mark!!

Kathr. how in all creation, did you come out with what you said MarkV believed in? You said,
"MarkV is confused and believes himself to be one of teh original Disciples when Jesus was on earth."
Where did Mark ever say he believed he was one of the desciples?
---alan8566_of_uk on 9/1/10


1. it is by God's will and His mercy that we are save. - MarkV

Once again (and for probably the 10th time) I agree with this. I never denied it. Do we really need to keep covering this? We disagree as to what Gods WILL is.

2. God could not be Omnipotent if man can do what he wants

God IS Omnipotent... and yet satan, 1/3 of the angels of heaven and all of mankind has disobeyed Him. The only way for that to even be possible is if He gives his creations themselves limited power. The power to choose whom they will obey. However, it is not without consequence.

The only other explanation is that he forces us into disobedience (which I suspect you truly believe).
---JackB on 9/1/10


Kathr. how in all creation, did you come out with what you said I believed in? You said,
"MarkV is confused and believes himself to be one of teh original Disciples when Jesus was on earth."
Where did I ever say I believed I was one of the desciples? You are really losing it. And then to show how smart you are, as many times before you give, Acts2:32, Acts 5:13, Acts 5:32 and finish with, Also the gospel..1 Cor. 15:1-4, is that suppose to make whatever your theory is true? Heck, anyone can copy five passages and say the same thing, and then add, also the gospel. I believe you are the one very confused. Instead of talking about nothing, why don't you ask a question?
---MarkV. on 9/1/10


Romans tells us that the creation and the conscience testify that there is a God so that man is without excuse. The necessity of preaching THE gospel is to reveal the way to the Father through the righteousness of Christ. The grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to ALL men. The word "hath appeared" is the greek word for "revealed, shown". The Holy Spirit is in charge of that. He does do His job without fail. When the gospel is preached, it is that same Holy Spirit who testifies that the message preached is true. Man who has heard has at that time the opportunity to receive or reject. Reception is everlasting life. Rejection is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
---Linda on 8/31/10


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Ginger ... I have expereince enough of Mark jumping all over me to know he has not started on you yet.

I usually disagree with Mark, but on this particular issue he is right.

Not everyone has heard about Jesus
---alan8566_of_uk on 8/31/10


Also Alan, I never disagreed with MarkV on sending out missionaries.
I disagreed with him stating that the name of Jesus has not been preached through out the world. It has.
It seems to me that man is doing exactly as God said they would do.
They have become lovers of themselves and forgotten what they have been told about Jesus.
I am saying we should do these things and continue to do them until Christ's return.
We know that he is, the signs are everywhereBut we must press on and continue to preach the word of God until he comes back for his church.
So, I am not sure why MarkV is jumping all over me oon this very slight disagreement.
---ginger on 8/30/10


Alan, we are deluding oursleves if we sit here and think that they have not been told that Jesus dies for their sins.
they just don't believe it. the world is full of people like this.
They are in the dark but that should not stop us from going out and telling them over and over again.
That was all I said. Are you going to jump all over me too based upon the falsehoods of what MarkV is saying about me?
MarkV is saying that people have not been told that Jesus died for their sins. That is a lie. They have been told. They are without excuse. Yet we are still supposed to press on and keep telling them until the end comes.
Please go back and read my posts to MarkV and you will understand what I am talking about brother.
---ginger on 8/30/10


MarV is right about people not having eard of God and Jesus.

Even in England there are many who just do not have any clue as to what Christians beleive ... to them Jesus and God are just swear words.
---alan8566_of_uk on 8/30/10


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Again, with the common sense thing.
It is NOT about my common sense. This is about truth.

Exactly how long do you think the Church has been sending missionaries all over the world, MarkV?
for centuries.
Or is this about your truth and not God's?

So, I ask again what makes you think they have NOT already heard the Gospel?

These missionaries are going to places that people have already been sent to. Probably because they are replacements for the ones sent before them because they were possibly killed or need relief.
But there is no place in the world that God's word has not been preached.
---ginger on 8/30/10


Ginger, you are a subburn person who will not listen to simple common sense. We have missionaries because many have never heard of Christ. To think that every single individual has heard of Christ is not only rediculous but insane. You want to make something false be true. The gospel goes out to all mankind in general, but not every one has heard of Christ. That is why we have missionaries. Why have them if everyone single individual has heard of Christ and the gospel Truth. You refuse to listen to common sense, for the purpose of arguing against me. Any more truths is useless. So I will move on, and leave you peace.
---MarkV. on 8/30/10


Mark,
Please, tell me....How do you know they have never heard of Jesus, brother?

Those people are actually doing something we here are not...dying for the Gospel.
That tells me that they have heard, are hearing and are believing and dying because of it.

We should not be deceived into thinking that the devil is more powerful than God.

His word will not return void. It will do what it was sent out to do.
---ginger on 8/30/10


I understand Mark.
I believe that when God says salvation has appeared to all men, that they don't have an excuse, they don't. God knows they won't let him show them the truth. They let there own will get in the way of the good things God has for them. So, we are not held responsible as long as we continue to tell them. Be witnesses for ALL the lost not just the ones God knows will come to him. We should pray that God changes their mind. Thats God's will for his church. I know in the end every knee shall bow and tongue confess Jesus. We know that the enemy doesnt win. This gives us hope that in the last hour, God IS going to do something amazing.
We should be believing that God can do all things, because he can.
---ginger on 8/30/10


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Ginger, I'm not saying God is wrong, I never do. The writers of Scripture used many words differently, depending on what Bible you use. So what I do when something seems to contradict, I look it up on the Hebrew and Greek words. I look for the meaning of those words to make sure that what I say is correct.
Just yesterday we had a missionary pastor from China at our church to tell us what is happening in China. They are getting ready to plant another Church in the province of Anhui, they have over 61,000,00 million people. 78% are peasants. Peasants were prohibited from living in cities. They never heard of Jesus. Until recently, because of demand for labor, some are allowed or permitted into the cities and are starting to hear the gospel.
---MarkV. on 8/30/10


"No I don't Ginger

According to you and kathr not according to the Bible. "
---MarkV. on 8/29/10

So you don't believe what the Bible? It says exactly what I stated in that ? by the way.So are you saying God is wrong? That Jesus has NOT appeared to all men? You argue with the bible here, bro, not me.
Nothing I have said is contradictory to the Bible.

I am reading your blogs and you are saying God witholds salvation from men on purpose, MarkV.
Thats NOT truth. Thats NOT what the Bible says.
God wants all men to come to salvation. AND he's sad that all men won't but not because of GOD. Because God knows they won't answer him. He goes to those who will, he does NOT do the choosing, though.
---ginger on 8/29/10


Ginger, to your question'
"MarkV, Do you believe as the bible says that salvation has apeared unto all men?"
No I don't Ginger, because many around the world have never heard of Jesus Christ. The Bible reference is to all mankind. That is common sense. In the context for which it was written was for that era, and many then had heard of the gospel. But to think that now when there is billions of people, no. In China along, there is millions who never heard of Christ.
Then you said,
"You believe your way is the only right way. But, according to the Bible, what you say in some of your blogs is only half of the truth."
According to you and kathr not according to the Bible.
---MarkV. on 8/29/10


Ginger 2:
You said,
"Brother, have you ever thought that maybe what you believe in the sense that God chooses is wrong?"
No. Because the Word of God tells me I am not wrong.
"Of His own will" He brought us forth by the Word of Truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of His creation" James 1:18. It's the will of God we come to Christ. We have understanding because God has given us understanding to His Word.
"And we know that the Son of God has come and has "given us understanding, so that we may know Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life" 1 John 5:20. Scripture speaks of His power and will, not ours.
---MarkV. on 8/29/10


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MarkV, Do you believe as the bible says that salvation has apeared unto all men?

I do.

Kath is basing what she says upon your posts that I have read. You are stating what you believe because you already have a predisposition to calvinism. You refuse to hear anything else.
You believe your way is the only right way. But, according to the Bible, what you say in some of your blogs is only half of the truth.
Brother, have you ever thought that maybe what you believe in the sense that God chooses is wrong?
The work of salvation IS God, all GOD, yet he does not choose. God acts on those who he knows will receive him.
God knowing who will be saved is not the same as God choosing who will be saved.
---ginger on 8/29/10


Part 2,
Deut. 30:6 in order to love the Lord and come to Him you have to be born again of the Spirit, God has to change your heart,
"And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your offspring, "so that you will love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live" Men on their own cannot change their hearts.
1 Cor. 2:14, "Because the natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned"
John 5:21, For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also "the Son gives life to whom He will"
---MarkV. on 8/29/10


Here is the Truth, now you listen Kathr who has twisted who I am and what I believe,
"As many as were ordained to eternal life believed" Acts 13:48. If you were ordained to eternal life you too believed.
Our salvation is "not by works done in righteouness which we did ourselves, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit" (Phil. 2:12, 13). The Psalmist tells us that the Lord's people offer themselves willingly in the day of His Power" (Psa. 110:3). Conversion is a peculiar and sovereign gift of God. The sinner has no power to turn himself unto God, but is turned or renewed by divine grace before he can do anything spiritually good.
---MarkV. on 8/28/10


To continue with Romans 10 we see now after verse 6 verses 7-10...If you believe CHRIST WAS RAISED from the Dead.....

Now isn't this what the Apostles testified to..
Listen:

Acts 2:32
This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Acts 3:15
And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead, whereof we are witnesses.


Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things, and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

ALSO the Gospel ****1 Cor 15:1-4
---kathr4453 on 8/27/10


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WE're Abrahams spiritual children and identify with ISAAC,(the CHURCH) referring to those above and free, Gal (as Isaac was, so are WE, Children of Promise).not Jacob.Jacob and Esau, Neither was a Child of PROMISE, representing salvation They were TWINS w/ same mother and father. Jacob was CHOSEN to be the father of a NATION, RENAMED ISRAEL, who were Gods representatives on earth to bring forth Jesus Christ.
If there were any truth in God loving/choosing one and hating another RE: Salvation, it would have been established in Genesis stating: Abel I loved, Cain I hated. IT'S NOT THERE!
Jacob is ISRAEL, Israel being Gods Chosen NATION.
MarkV, identifies with NATIONAL earthly Israel,(NOW DISOBEDIENT) and not Isaac!!!???
---kathr4453 on 8/27/10


mima, I believe John 3:16 was already stated before John 6 here, and John 6 is a continuation of John 3:16.

The work of God is this:

For GOD so loved the world that HE GAVE His only begotten Son, that WHO SO EVER believes in Him shall not perish but Have eternal life.
---Laura on 8/27/10


Markv wrote,"Mima, the work of God is to give certain individuals the ability to believe by faith in Christ."

Scripture, John 6:29 says "Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."

There appears to be a difference.
---mima on 8/27/10


//the work of God is to give certain individuals the ability to believe by faith in Christ. - MarkV//

Romans 10:6

But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of FAITH, which we preach,


It was the same with the Law of God (Deut 30:11). We have the ability to follow and believe.

Gal 2:16
..we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ..
---JackB on 8/27/10


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//"I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious" (Ex. 33:19). - MarkV //

Why does this scripture only apply when someone believes in election to "saving faith in Christ" and not apply to the fact that God loves all men and wants all men to be saved?

Is the objection to such a belief REALLY because its "unscriptural" or because it would offend those who think they are Gods elite special people - loved above all the rest of the world?

Is God so insecure in his sovereignty that he must ruthlessly control every mans actions? Does He frequently tell us to do that which He has no intention of allowing us to do? That would make the Lord a deceiver. We all know who the great deceiver is.
---JackB on 8/27/10


//"I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious" (Ex. 33:19). - MarkV //

Why does this scripture only apply when someone believes in election to "saving faith in Christ" and not apply to the fact that God loves all men and wants all men to be saved?

Is the objection to such a belief REALLY because its "unscriptural" or because it would offend those who think they are Gods elite special people - loved above all the rest of the world?

Is God so insecure in his sovereignty that he must ruthlessly control every mans actions? Does He frequently tell us to do that which He has no intention of allowing us to do? That would make the Lord a deceiver. We all know who the great deceiver is.
---JackB on 8/27/10


Mima, what MarkV fails to see. Read John 17.

Jesus first prays for those whom God gave Him, that is His 12 Disciples. Now we see in verse 17:20 Jesus is praying for ALL who believe in Him through THEIR WORD


MarkV is confused and believes himself to be one of teh original Disciples when Jesus was on earth.

ALSO, there is no such thing in scripture as SAVING FAITH God gives to anyone. There is FAITH and Faith without works....

All FAITH in Christ is saving faith with teh evidence of obedience AKA Works.
---kathr4453 on 8/27/10


Mima, the work of God is to give certain individuals the ability to believe by faith in Christ. Without saving faith, no one could put their faith and trust in Christ and honor Him as God. They could believe in Jesus with no faith. That knowledge can only condemn them for they knew about God and did not glorify Him as God. (Romans 1:21).
From beginning to end, it is God who is working the salvation He gives so that you never lack in anything.
And just because Grace is unmerited favor, it must be exercised in a sovereign manner. Therefore does the Lord declared, "I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious" (Ex. 33:19).
---MarkV. on 8/26/10


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God does even more than that. For me it wasn't about believing until AFTER HE SAVED ME. Then I believed. God absolutely 100% does ALL WORK in this.
---catherine on 8/25/10


Do you believe that those who will be saved, are saved, because they have been chosen by God, as God chose Abraham,
Or do you think we make the decision to be saved, and God has no part in this decision?
---David on 8/20/10

My answer is YES to both except the part about God not having a part in it.

God has everything to do with our salvation and we have very little to do with it. All we do is believe and He does ALL the rest.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/25/10


Lu24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Mt11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

1Co2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

Even our belief in Christ is the work of God.
Without God's drawing us to him we couldn't believe.
---trey on 8/24/10


Not necessarily
---michael_e on 8/23/10


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Orginal question--opening another blog for other questions-is best-since Only 75 answer is aloud.

///" Does the work of God equate with salvation?" Salvation 'is' the "work of God".
---Josef on 8/17/10///
AMEN-BROTHER!

This is The Working of God-by Him-Holy Spirit working through you as your mind is renewed with His Word and no another-instead.(anti)
You can allow yourself to be baptized even if what you are believing in-is false.(won't save you)
Your are being baptized for what you believe in-without belief-no point of baptism.
If it is the true Word of God-He will work through you-in agreement.
He alone gets the glory.
Baptism will not save you.
Believing-in the True resurrection-will.
---char on 8/21/10


//Or do you think we make the decision to be saved, and God has no part in this decision?
---David on 8/20/10//

We make the dicision , but God does have a hand in it
Acts 16:14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.
---michael_e on 8/20/10


Question for all of you.

Do you believe that those who will be saved, are saved, because they have been chosen by God, as God chose Abraham,
Or do you think we make the decision to be saved, and God has no part in this decision?
---David on 8/20/10


Lawrence if I am twisting anything it is to untaggle the mess you have been spinning.
Baptism does not Save. Is that plain enough?
What does Rom 10:9-13 say? Salvation comes by the sheding of blood not the pouring of water. You discredit Jesus' sacrifice when you say water saves.
If baptism saved then we could just throw 'em in the river and get'er done, huh.
Baptism is a one time event. It is not to join a church but many who get baptised in a church become members of it. I didn't say anything about church membership anyway. You must be hearing those voices again.
---Elder on 8/19/10


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elder
Your still twisting it.
You make it sound like other trin - ministers
saying, you don't have to baptized to be saved but you have to be baptized to be in my church. It makes it sound like being baptized is more important to be in the ministers church than to be baptized to go to heaven. That's why I see the the trin rcc her daughters trin churches Are here 2nd.Cor.11 v's 14 - 15, Rev.17 v's 4 - 6.

Don't belong to God because they Are trying to steal, John 10 v 1 their way into heaven.
---Lawrence on 8/18/10


"elder
Yes faith to believe is first,"
Lawrence on 8/18/10
Lawrence, many cults use word meanings different to make someone think they are saying the same thing that they are. To be sure that is not the purpose here I will be very plain.
Here is the proper order since I didn't speak of "faith to believe first."
First, Faith to believe.
Next, Salvation by Grace.
Last, Baptism by obiedence.
You can be saved without baptism but you cannot be obedient without it. Communion is for the Saved so is baptism. Niether one is to "get saved" but because one is saved.
---Elder on 8/18/10


elder
Yes faith to believe is first, Mark 16 v 16, Acts 2 v's 37 - 41.

Acts 2 v's 37 - 41 Fulfills Matt.28 v's 19 - 20.
---Lawrence on 8/18/10


"elder
If salvation is first then baptism, then Jesus is wrong here Mark1 6 v 16. Faith, baptism process in being saved."
---Lawrence on 8/18/10
Lawrence.. No Jesus is never wrong, but people like you never consider the fact that you are wrong.
If you really read all the verse you will see it is lack of believing in Christ that condemns, even if you have been baptised.
Read Acts 8:26-39. You may see that belief comes first, v36-37.
Study what the words mean in passages about baptism.
---Elder on 8/18/10


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Lawrence....faith is how you receive salvation.
---JIM on 8/18/10


Josef, Right.

elder
If salvation is first then baptism, then Jesus is wrong here Mark1 6 v 16. Faith, baptism process in being saved.
---Lawrence on 8/18/10


No, because those that remain condemned still believe in Jesus and know whom he is (ref: Matthew 7:21-23), therefore belief is not enough and there remains something else in order to obtain salvation. So what is this something else, other than only belief, which brings salvation? answer, obedience. You see, satan believes in Jesus but he does not follow him, therefore he is antiJesus or antiChrist. The true believer in Christ will Do all that Christ commands, namely, Repent your whole life up to him, and accept his way of life in the place of yours.
---Eloy on 8/17/10


You will notice in Heb 11:17 Abraham had received the promises offered by God before he offered Isaac.---Elder on 8/17/10

Elder, You must not have understood the verses in (Hebrews 11,17-19)

Abraham was willing to put Isaac on the alter because God promised that his offspring would be reckoned through Isaac.
If Abraham's offspring would be reckoned through Isaac, God would of had to bring Isaac back to life in order to keep this promise to Abraham.

You say Abraham had already received this promise.
How could this be, since Isaac was still a boy when he was placed on the Alter and was much to young to have had any children?

---David on 8/17/10


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My heart is good today, but, I'm not going to rethink on anything....I very seldom ever go back on what these people write, but, they do it to me all the time. I guess everybody here knows more than I know. I'll just ask God about that.... Father in the name of Jesus, are all these people smarter than I am? Answer>>>NO!
---catherine on 8/17/10


" Does the work of God equate with salvation?" Salvation 'is' the "work of God".
---Josef on 8/17/10


David, before I was married I bought my future wife a ring. I bought it in faith that she would marry me. I trusted her. When we were married I gave her the wedding ring. The ring didn't unite us. It was a symbol that we were united. Baptism is like this ring.
You will notice in Heb 11:17 Abraham had received the promises offered by God before he offered Isaac.
Faith is believing that God will do what He said. In the Genisis passage Abraham said that God would provide Himself a sacrifice. Read v19 in Hebrews then go to v1-3.
---Elder on 8/17/10


David, Baptism is an act of obedience not faith.---Elder on 8/16/10

Elder,
What do you think Abraham was doing when he put Isaac on the Alter?
Was this not also an act of obedience to God? (Genesis 22:2)
But...If you look at (Hebrews 11:17-19) this act of obedience, you will notice, was recorded as an act of faith.
---David on 8/16/10


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David, Baptism is an act of obedience not faith. That is why Baptism comes after salvation and has no part in redemption except for the obedient testimony that one is saved. This is understood when the whole of Scripture teaching is understood about the subject.
"Has anyone but me noticed that here Jesus is saying that the act of saving faith is itself a work?"
Cluny on 8/13/10
Cluny, as you always ask.... Book, chapter and verse please. Or, is this just your thought??
---Elder on 8/16/10


The work is not something that man does for God, ---catherine on 8/14/10

You might want to rethink your post Catherine.

(Mark 16:16)
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Isn't baptism an act of faith?

Catherine,If someone yells "Fire" in a theater and only half of the people run from the theater, which half believed the man who yelled "Fire"?
---David on 8/16/10


The work of God was to believe on Him. The work is not something that man does for God, but in the act of receiving what God has done for man....If Christ wanted those Jews to believe on Him, He had better perform a great sign than Moses. Well, I can just imagine what Jesus was saying about that. I have an imagination, now....One day I asked God, "Do you enjoy being God"? He said, "Oh my yes"!
---catherine on 8/14/10


Has anyone but me noticed that here Jesus is saying that the act of saving faith is itself a work?
---Cluny on 8/13/10

Cluny,I agree with you.
If faith is without works, then what does the Bible mean when it says that God is Faithful?
---David on 8/14/10


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mima, I would have to use the word Grace, when describing salvation thru christ,yes it was jesus who sacrificed himself,but it was the father who sent him.Now that being said I would say that Gods main objective is reconciling himself to the world thru jesus.
---tom2 on 8/13/10


The work of God equates with sending his message through his minister son-Jesus.What was work is to get the jewish population to believe him in a time where Jesus said he has seen the Father, he and his Father are one and he came down from heaven.The many jews did not believe him,many did.
Jesus's reply ,"This is the work of God that ye believe on him that he has sent."
Then the argument begins about who sent manna.
---earl on 8/13/10


Psalms 77:12 I will meditate also of all thy work, and talk of thy doings.

Psalms 77:13 Thy way, O God, is in the sanctuary: who is so great a God as our God?

Psalms 77:14 Thou art the God that doest wonders: thou hast declared thy strength among the people

all that we need to know about the work of God can be found in the Sanctuary
---francis on 8/13/10


Yes Donna
Using faith scriptures along with The salvation plan of God Acts 2 v 38 works together.

People that just use faith scriptures alone for salvation, they Are trying to do this here, John 10 v 1.

---Lawrence on 8/13/10


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---Donna5535 I find your post very enlightening. You are a blessing to this website.
---mima on 8/13/10


Has anyone but me noticed that here Jesus is saying that the act of saving faith is itself a work?
---Cluny on 8/13/10


Yes, you gotta believe on Him whom He hath sent.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that who-so-ever BELIEVETH on Him shall have everlasting life.

If ye confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, that God raised Him from the dead, ye shall be saved.

The issued with this last scripture is try to get people to confess Jesus is Lord -it's hard to do.
---Donna5535 on 8/13/10


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