ChristiaNet MallWorld's Largest Christian MallChristian BlogsFree Bible QuizzesFree Ecards and Free Greeting CardsLoans, Debt, Business and Insurance Articles

7th Day Adventist Defense

How do Seventh-day Adventist deal with the Scriptures such as 1 Timothy 2:11-13?

Join Our Christian Dating and Take The False Traditions Bible Quiz
 ---mima on 8/27/10
     Helpful Blog Vote (2)

Post a New Blog



francis:

Yes, precisely! You yourself have said it!

These things are a SHADOW of the reality to come (Jesus). So now that the reality has come, why do you continue to cling so desperately to the shadow?

This makes as much sense as a soldier corresponding with his wife by mail, and then when he finally gets home, instead of spending time with her, he locks himself in a room alone to re-read all the letters she had sent him before.
---StrongAxe on 9/1/10


1 Cor. 16:1-2 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia,...Upon the 1st day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

Francis being igorant of church history does not know Saturday was considered a WORKDAY everywhere except among the Jews.

Because most early Gentile Christians were of lower economic & social classes, it would have been difficult for them to observe the Jewish Sabbath.

So they gathered on Sunday - the Lord's day - the CHRISTIAN sabbath instead of the Jewish Sabbath.

Of course, since such facts do not fit into what Francis wants to believe, he will give no response.
---leej on 9/1/10


StrongAxe asked francis:"if you kept the things the Law commands about the Passover (slaughtering a lamb, sprinkling its blood on your doorposts, roasting and eating its meet during the Passover meal, etc.), since these are commanded by the Law, and not doing so would break the Law - but you didn't respond. Do you do these things?"

One needs understand that the SDA cherry pick the OT for their religious beliefs. There will not or cannot view the Bible as a whole.

So they will not or cannot respond to such an inquiry.
---leej on 9/1/10


Gary
The OT reference text for colosians 2 16 and 16 is leviticus 23. Verse 38 sepetaed the weekly sabbath from the other sabbath days. ( i am assuming that you already know that every feast contains a day of rest)

In my last post I showed fair detail how every shadow was fulfilled by jesus christ

Now can you:
1: Show me one verse that says that the sabbath is christ, or that christ is the sabbath, as I showed you that christ is the passover lamb?
and,
2: If the sabbath is a shadow can you explain why we have sabbath the new hevaen when we also have the fullness of Jesus ( isaiah 66 22-23)
---francis on 9/1/10


Let's not take scripture out of context, francis. Here is what the scripture says:

Colossians 2:16-17: "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the SABBATH days: Which are a SHADOW of things to come, but the body is of Christ."

Oh my!! Looks like the sabbath was also a SHADOW of things to come!

Note: KJV added the word "days".
---Gary on 9/1/10




StrongAxe: All these pointed to Jesus:

Colossians 2:17 Which are a SHADOW of things to come, but the body is of Christ.

Earthly High priest- Jesus Hebrews 10:21 An high priest over the house of God,
Earthly Sanctuary- Heavenly sanctuary Hebrews 8:2 the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched,
Passover lamb ( MEAT)- Jesus 1 Corinthians 5:7 Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
Light- Jesus John 8:12 I am the light
Oil-Jesus*
Veil- Body of Jesus Hebrews 10:20 the veil,.. his flesh,
Bread- Jesus John 6:35 I am the bread
Wine- (DRINK) Blood of Jesus Hebrews 9:12 by his own blood
Water- Jesus the living water John 4:10 have given thee living water.
---francis on 9/1/10


Francis, on 8/31/10, you wrote "I am still learning lots of stuff"

As I had mentioned before I grew up in an SDA home. From being dilligent in following the instruction founs in 2 Timothy 2:14-19, and following the example found in Acts 17:11, along with asking and answering the questions, WHO, WHAT, WHEN, WHERE, and TO HOM, I have learned to stay far away from the SDA's.

Frances, If you really want to know GOD'S TRUTHS, I encourage you to be very dilligent in doing what I did.

By the way, I did read Ellen G. White's book, THE GREAT CONTROVERSY when I was a teenager There is indeed a great controversy between what Ellen G. White wrote, and what is written in scripture.
---Rob on 8/31/10


francis:

Earlier, I had asked you if you kept the things the Law commands about the Passover (slaughtering a lamb, sprinkling its blood on your doorposts, roasting and eating its meet during the Passover meal, etc.), since these are commanded by the Law, and not doing so would break the Law - but you didn't respond. Do you do these things?
---StrongAxe on 8/31/10


\\C: Nothing about gathering together for pray or worship in sunday\\

You mean we're NOT supposed to pray and worship on Sunday?
---Cluny on 8/31/10


The first day of the week we call Sunday. It starts at sunset on Saturday. see genesis ( evening and morning was _ day)

1 Corinthians 16:1-2 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

1: Special collections for the saints
2: To be set aside starting first day of the week (sunday)
3: To be set aside AT HOME (by Him in store)

A: Nothing about sabbath at all
B: Nothing about bringing offering to church on sunday
C: Nothing about gathering together for pray or worship in sunday

We agree on these.
---francis on 8/31/10




francis //... it does not matter whether it was 1900 or 2009. I myself was 18 years old when i started keeping sabbath and tithing.

Tell me at the end of the Sabbath day, did you actually observe all the regulations and ordinances required for keeping the Sabbath?

Or did you mess up and break the Sabbath by doing some work that could have been put off to another day?

Perhaps you simply stayed in bed all day long so that you knew you were successful in keeping the Jewish Sabbath.

What was your means of measurement and evaluation?

Await your answer!
---leej on 8/31/10


Rob

Work of the priest goes on even on sabbath and is not a sin.

Matthew 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? REFERENCE: Numbers 28:9 And on the sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, and the drink offering thereof:

Mark 1:21 And they went into Capernaum, and straightway on the SABBATH day he ( JESUS) entered into the synagogue, and TAUGHT.

Mark_Eaton

see the OTHER text in Nehemiah 13:18 and
Ezekiel 20: ( SIGN between you and me) is referenced in exodus 31: 13-16
---francis on 8/31/10


Gary it does not matter whether it was 1900 or 2009. I myself was 18 years old when i started keeping sabbath and tithing.

No christian knows everything day ONE, not even the baptized christian. Growing in christ requires learning, and obeying as we go.

I am still learning lots of stuff.
---francis on 8/31/10


OLD TESTAMENT - THE FIRST OF THE FRUITS SHOULD GO TO GOD

Proverbs 3:9 (KJV) Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:

Proverbs 3:9 (NIV) Honor the LORD with your wealth, with the firstfruits of all your crops,

NEW TESTAMENT - THE WORKER SHOULD BE FIRST TO RECEIVE A SHARE OF THE CROPS

2 Timothy 2:6 (KJV) The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits.

2 Timothy 2:6 (NIV) The hardworking farmer should be the first to receive a share of the crops.

Ever hear a pastor say you should spend the first part of your income on yourself?
---Gary on 8/31/10


70 year exile was because they did not keep sabbaths
---francis on 8/31/10

The exile to the Babylonians was for not keeping the Sabbath of the Land, not the weekly sabbath. In every seventh year, the land was not to be planted and was to lay fallow as a sabbath for the land.

2 Chron 36:21 "to fulfill the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed its sabbaths, All the days of its desolation it kept sabbath until seventy years were complete"
---Mark_Eaton on 8/31/10


Francis, I grew up in a SDA home.

Why do you insist in distorting and perverting what is written in scripture. A ne day does not begin until MIDNIGHT. The Apostle Paul began preaching on the first day of the week (SUNDAY) and continued to preach until midnight (MONDAY being the next day).

Another question I have is if a person is not allowed to do any work on the Sabbath, why do SDA preachers teach and preach on the Sabbath?
---Rob on 8/31/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Cash Advance


francis - I don't think you have studied the history of tithing in the SDA church.

IN LATER YEARS, near 1900, is when they came up with their current teaching of the tithe. It was their plan MODELED AFTER the Levitical tithe, but THEY SAID they CHANGED what God's tithe was to FIT THE NEEDS of the SDA denomination. Then they told the leaders to encourage the members to ACCEPT THEIR PLAN AS THOUGH IT WERE GOD'S PLAN FOR THE CHURCH. AS THOUGH! Once the members agreed to accept their plan, at some point they started teaching it AS God's plan. VERY DISHONEST.
---Gary on 8/31/10


\\Original SDA did not even keep the sabbath, it was not until they met the 7th day Baptists that they started keeping sabbath.\\

Not quite true, francis.

It was only a part (albeit the biggest part) of the Millerite/Adventist movement became Seventh Day Adventists.

There is also the Christian Adventist Church (among others) that came from this movement and worships on Sunday.
---Cluny on 8/31/10


It is not the day that we worship on that is important.
Sandy on 8/31/10
70 year exile was because they did not keep sabbaths

2 Chronicles 36:21 To fulfil the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfil threescore and ten years.

Nehemiah 13:18 Did not your fathers thus, and did not our God bring all this evil upon us, and upon this city? yet ye bring more wrath upon Israel by profaning the sabbath.

Ezekiel 20:24 Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols.

Still don't think the DAY is important?
---francis on 8/31/10


No where in God's Word does it break down items and say these were fulfilled and those were not fulfilled.
P---Gary on 8/31/10

See the book of Hebrews, and the " gospels."
Look for verses like these: Matthew 2:17 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying,
ALso look at the " I AM" statements by Jesus.

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life:

Original SDA did not even keep the sabbath, it was not until they met the 7th day Baptists that they started keeping sabbath.
Remember the original SDA were from other denominations studying together. No suprise if they once thought tithe and sabbath ended at the cross.
---francis on 8/31/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Credit Counseling


It is not the day that we worship on that is important. God told us to enter into His rest. This is what we must do. When God finished His work of creation, His work was done. We cannot add to it, so we are told to enter into His rest. We are to surrender our self life to Him and let Him be on the Throne of our hearts. What day we worship is not His concern. It is the fact that we do worship Him.
---Sandy on 8/31/10


francis - the Old Testament, the Old Covenant was fulfilled. No where in God's Word does it break down items and say these were fulfilled and those were not fulfilled. ONLY denominations do that.

Please answer me - why don't the SDA honor the 7-year land sabbath?

Also, francis, if you read the history of tithing in the SDA church you will find that the original leaders AGREED that tithing ended at the cross, later came up with men are to give more than women, eventually came up with the way it is taught today, EXCEPT they said it was their own plan PATTERNED AFTER the Levitical tithe. Originally they didn't teach it AS God's plan.
---Gary on 8/31/10


Rob on 8/30/10

Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow, and continued his speech until midnight.

Acts 20:8 And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together.

Well, this actualy takes place on what we call saturday night. paul preached from sunset saturday night to midnight, and left on Sunday Morning for his journey.
This was not an every sunday event, but rather a special event.

Notice something interested. paull eaves on a long journey on sunday mornig, showing that there is nothing special about sundays.
---francis on 8/31/10


Once it is fulfilled, the work ends. The contract ends. Not destroyed. Not abolished. Just ends.
Gary on 8/30/10
What was fulfiled

Earthly High priest-Jesus
Earthly Sanctuary-Heavenly sanctuary
Passover lamb-Jesus
Light-Jesus
Oil-Jesus*
Veil-Body of Jesus
Bread-Jesus
Wine-Blood of Jesus
Water- Jesus the living water

These are in the bible. IF you think that the work is finished because it is fulfiled then read Hebrews see what work Jesus is now doing as high priest in the heavenly sanctuary.

Also when John Baptized jesus
Matthew 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer [it to be so] now: for thus it becometh us to FULFILl all righteousness.

IS all righteousness finished?
---francis on 8/31/10


Send a Free Inspirational Ecard


Gary:

Thanks. Your illustration of the difference between destroying and fulfilling was very illuminating.
---StrongAxe on 8/30/10


\\//Women are not ordained as Bishops or Priests in the RCC or Orthodoxy (or the Eastern Churches in general). Who told you otherwise?

But what VOWS do they take?
---leej on 8/30/10\\

What do vows have to do with anything?

Religious or monastic profession is NOT the same thing as ordination.

It's the LAYING ON OF HANDS that confers ordination in Orthodox, Roman Catholic, and other churches.

Nuns do NOT have the imposition of hands.
---Cluny on 8/30/10


Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
---francis on 8/30/10

OK, we are talking about LAW here. Do you have a legal background? I do.

If you hire a contractor to remodel your kitchen, you have a contract that is enforceable under the law. Once the contractor completes remodeling the kitchen, he has FULFILLED the contract. He didn't come to destroy or abolish the contract, he came to fulfill it. Once it is fulfilled, the work ends. The contract ends. Not destroyed. Not abolished. Just ends.
---Gary on 8/30/10


"But what VOWS do they take?" (leej)

Whose "they"?

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 8/30/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Debt Relief


Frances, which day of the week is the FIRST DAY, and which day of the week is the SEVENTH DAY?

I am curious about what you have to say concerning what is written in Acts 20:7-11 and 1 Corinthians 16:1-2.
---Rob on 8/30/10


Jerry - Sorry Jerry but your Sabbath keeping thing cannot be supported from Scripture.----leej

Well Jerry, Ms Professor of home schooled theology can't tell you what laws are recongized or not recognized in the New Covenant. They were written in the heart and mind. Heb 8:10. Jer31:33.
She doesn't claim these or bear marks of...she can't possibly know/conceive/derive their number or message.
The Covenant was made with the Divorced Nth house of Israel of 10 and the Sth House consisting of Judah Benjamin. Of which you may be and not even know it....other than the laws that speak to you.
She has no authority to teach/preach/rebuke from two scriptural positions given by patriarchs and Apostles.
---Trav on 8/30/10


//Women are not ordained as Bishops or Priests in the RCC or Orthodoxy (or the Eastern Churches in general). Who told you otherwise?

But what VOWS do they take?
---leej on 8/30/10


Deuteronomy 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

QUESTION: WHO ADDED SUNDAY and where in the word of God can i find such a text?

And who took away sabbath?

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Matthew 5:18 , Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:
---francis on 8/30/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Debt Settlement


francis:

Don't the SDA teach that one should refrain from meat? Don't the SDA teach that one should refrain from alcohol? Don't the SDA teach that one should refrain from working on Saturdays? If an SDA family invited a friend to the restaurant, and the friend ordered a cheeseburger and a beer, wouldn't the SDA family look on this with a sense of disapproval?

If any of these are true, they are examples of "you should do this/you should not do that", meaning that one who does them is doing better than one who does not. This creates a dichotomy between the obedient and the disobedient - i.e. between the saint and the sinner.
---StrongAxe on 8/30/10


\\"In addition to the SDA, is not the blog scripture problematic for churches such as RCC, JW, LDS, Lutheran, Anglican, and Orthodox who ordain women?" (Mark Eaton)\\

BTW, Mark, in case you thought otherwise, nuns in the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches are not ordained.

You didn't think they were the female equivalent of priests, did you?

Nor, am I aware that J[f]Ws or LDS ordain women at all.
---Cluny on 8/30/10


"In addition to the SDA, is not the blog scripture problematic for churches such as RCC, JW, LDS, Lutheran, Anglican, and Orthodox who ordain women?" (Mark Eaton)

Women are not ordained as Bishops or Priests in the RCC or Orthodoxy (or the Eastern Churches in general). Who told you otherwise?

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 8/30/10


SDA's claim they don't do any business on the sabbath. NONSENSE. If you use any electricity at all, you are doing business with the power company.
Gary on 8/30/10

Where have i heard that before:

Yes now i know:
If you spit on the ground you are watering it
If you heal on the sbabath it is a sin.
If you pick corn and eat it you are havesting.

To this Jesus said: Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
---FRANCIS on 8/30/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Distance Learning


Gary
Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. What exactly does "it" refer to in this passage if the the sabbath day?

WORSHIP:
Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one SABBATH to another, shall all flesh come to WORSHIP before me, saith the LORD.


Ezekiel 46:1 Thus saith the Lord GOD, The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the six working days, but on the sabbath it shall be opened.
Ezekiel 46:2 And the prince. shall worship at the threshold of the gate:

Ezekiel 46:3 Likewise the people of the land shall WORSHIP at the door of this gate before the LORD in the SABBATHS and in the new moons.
---francis on 8/30/10


francis -

Exodus 35:2 - Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.

Why do you follow one part, or should I say why do you TRY (but fail) to keep one part of the sabbath command, but not keep all of the sabbath commands?

SDA's claim they don't do any business on the sabbath. NONSENSE. If you use any electricity at all, you are doing business with the power company.
---Gary on 8/30/10


While there are many women in the bible who teach, preach, and are prophets, the leadership position is reserved for the male members of the species.

1 Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

The women in the SDA church who preach, teach, and prophesy are all under the leadership and authority of men( males). They do not, and cannot USURP AUTHORITY over the man (male). They teach, and preach at the will of a pastor. All our elders, and deacons are under the authority of a pastor.

The silence part as we understand it has to with the cultural seperation of their day.

But the LORD [is] in his holy temple: let all the earth keep silence before him.
---francis on 8/30/10


Mark I agree. God told us not to add on to the bible,or go beyond what is written..
I know plenty of mainstream churches preaching to those for the "itching ears" instead of keeping it to the old fashioned sound doctrine. In their sermons they "add in" their opinions of whatever the teaching is instead of sticking to the scripture.
I feel some churches want more people to come in giving them what they want to hear & actually afraid of losing people because the people want the truth instead of the fluff. I see you judging,however please I urge you...look at yourselves & your own congregation first before judging others.
---candice on 8/30/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Education


francis - Deut 14 is talking about the festival tithe, and the tithe IS a tenth of the CROPS. IF you have too far to take the tithe, you may convert it (sell it) for money, take that money in your hand, and then BUY the food for the festival. The tithe was still the crops, NOT the money.

Abraham tithed on WAR SPOILS that didn't belong to him, and kept nothing for himself. Jacob vowed to give a tenth, but there is no evidence he ever in fact gave it.

Neither Abraham nor Jacob were commanded to tithe. SDA teach it as a command, not a voluntary gift.
---Gary on 8/30/10


francis -
Exodus 20:8 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy."

The Word says REMEMBER the sabbath day, to keep it holy. It doesn't say go to church on the seventh day. It doesn't say you need to do something or not to do something on the sabbath day. It says REMEMBER the sabbath day.

It doesn't say KEEP the sabbath. It says REMEMBER the sabbath day.

The Hebrew word zakar simply means to REMEMBER, or MENTION.

Do you kill those who work on the sabbath? If not then you are not following all the commandments regarding the sabbath day.
---Gary on 8/30/10


Gary /StrongAxe

Gary: Deuteronomy 14 talk about converting tithes of agriculture into money. When Abraham rescued Lot Abraham brought back " goods" Not just agriculture, Abraham gave tithes of all. Jacob vowed tithes of all, not just agreculture

Stronaxe:
No SDA judges one who is vegitarian as sinners. I myself an NOT a vegitarian. You received some false information.

The BIBLE says that Sin is the trangression of the law. One of the commandments in the law says to keep the sabbath.

Ezekiel 33:8 When I say unto the wicked, O wicked, thou shalt surely die, if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at thine hand.
---francis on 8/30/10


I'm curious what those SDA farmers do with their grapes, since California is big wine country - and the grapes are primarily of wine-making stock - and SDA forbid alcoholic beverages?
---StrongAxe on 8/30/10

I can't answer that question because I don't know. However, grapes here are used for both wine and RAISINS, as well as just left as grapes.

This area is known as the Raisin Capital of the World.
---Gary on 8/30/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Home Equity Loans


While I am disappointed at your SDA bashing session I have a question for all of you.

In addition to the SDA, is not the blog scripture problematic for churches such as RCC, JW, LDS, Lutheran, Anglican, and Orthodox who ordain women?

Also, if we accept the definition of a cult as a religious organization who accepts the writings of men on the same level as scripture. We hold this fact to be true for SDA, LDS, and JW, but what does this say about Orthodoxy and the RRC?
---Mark_Eaton on 8/30/10


They most likely sell the grapes at the local market.

We had a devout SDA living on a farm next door to us and he raised pigs. Do you not realize the money is more important than religious beliefs?

When their chidren often came down to our place, they ate whatever we served even if it was a pork product.
---leej on 8/30/10


Gary:

I'm curious what those SDA farmers do with their grapes, since California is big wine country - and the grapes are primarily of wine-making stock - and SDA forbid alcoholic beverages?
---StrongAxe on 8/30/10


francis - I live in an agricultural area in California where many SDA have farms. Many here grow grapes. Yet NONE of these SDA ever follow the seventh-year sabbath for the land.

Why isn't Leviticus 25:3-7 taught and followed by the SDA? NONE of my SDA friends will even try to answer that question. They just avoid answering it. Why? Because the SDA pick and choose which OT laws they bring forward.
---Gary on 8/29/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Interest Rates


God says that even farm animals are to rest on the Sabbath.

Early SDA drove horse and buggy.

God says that you are to light no fires on the Sabbath.

SDA drive their cars, even though the internal combustion engine works by lighting fires.
---Cluny on 8/29/10


francis:

Here is one that contradicts two SDA teachings:
1) Keeping the Sabbath (or, more specifically, judging those who do not keep the Sabbath as sinners)
2) Vegetarianism (or, more specifically, judging those who are not vegetarians as sinners):

Colossians 2:16
"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days"
---StrongAxe on 8/29/10


Well Gary, this is your lucky week.
Find and post ANY and ALL scripture that contradicts SDA teachings.
---francis on 8/29/10

Not enough room on this blog, francis, but here's a start:

Leviticus 27:30-33 - God defines His tithe as being from crops and animals.

Ellen White defines a tithe as ten percent of all income (or as she says, increase). Increase, when referring to the tithe in the Word, means increase OF CROPS, not income.

In Numbers 18 God COMMANDS the tithe be taken to the Levites.

Ellen White says the tithe is to be taken to the church.

Just a tiny sample.
---Gary on 8/29/10


Ignatius, you mentioned something my father noticed that I have since called Vladimir's Axiom.

Something all great psychics and mediums have in common: They suffer a blow to the head (or sometimes seizures or high fever) followed by an extended period of consciousness, during which time the walk-in pythonic spirit--well, walks in.

Peter Hurkos, the Belgian psychic fell on his head from a ladder.

Edgar Cayce was hit in the head with a baseball and unconscious for 3 weeks.

Helen Keller, who embraced Swedenborgianism, a form of spiritism.

Sydney Rigdon fell off a horse and was dragged on his head.

And EGW is right in this great tradition!
---Cluny on 8/29/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Internet Marketing


1 Timothy 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

1 Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

1 Timothy 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

1 Timothy 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

1 Timothy 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

why does this text need any explaining?
---francis on 8/29/10


Just curious, but what denomination are you now?
---jerry6593 on 8/29/10

I am a non-denominational born-again believer.
---Gary on 8/29/10


Well Gary, this is your lucky week.
Find and post ANY and ALL scripture that contradicts SDA teachings.
---francis on 8/29/10


leej. Didn't Ellen G White suffered a head injury prior to her so called "dreams and visions"? Doug Hackleman, Editor, Adventist Currents, June 1985 wrote a article entitled "The Significance of Ellen White's Head Injury"

I do agree with you. Ellen G White was a false prophet and a false teacher. But let us not blame her. It is not her fault that at the age of nine, she received a projectile-type blunt injury to the nasal area of the face and fell to the ground. Poor dear went delusional after that.

We shouldn't honor her. We should pity her.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 8/29/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Life Insurance


\\Cluny - I think Jerry can tell you that not everything olde Ellen White believed in was correct, that she was not infallible like some claim of the Roman pope.\\

Oh, I know that very little EGW said was correct.

But the thing is SHE thought she was God's oracle.

And she was a false prophet!
---Cluny on 8/28/10


Gary: "I thank the Lord that He opened my eyes to the false SDA doctrines." Please list the false SDA doctrines, and prove their falsity from the Bible alone.

Just curious, but what denomination are you now?
---jerry6593 on 8/29/10


cluny: "Is this correct?" No. As usual, your religion of "salvation by attacking others" and your sophomoric reasoning ability has led you to erroneous conclusions. EGW did not necessarily use the word 'amalgamation' in the same sense as you do. Consider:

All tares are sown by the evil one. Every noxious herb is of his sowing, and by his ingenious methods of 'amalgamation' he has corrupted the earth with tares. - MR16, p.247

Those who profess to be followers of Christ, should be living agencies, co-operating with heavenly intelligences, but by union with the world, the character of God's people becomes tarnished, and through 'amalgamation' with the corrupt, the fine gold becomes dim. - RH 8-23-92
---jerry6593 on 8/29/10


Cluny - I think Jerry can tell you that not everything olde Ellen White believed in was correct, that she was not infallible like some claim of the Roman pope.

And we also can see from the literature that she often did not even follow what she taught.(She taught the Levitical food laws but ate oysters).

She was very very limited in her understanding of the Scripture and we can all conclude that her visions were highly questionable in light of the fact that there were different versions of the same visions.

So we should not be too hard on the olde bat!
---leej on 8/28/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Make Money


\\Mima, Cluny, Gary, etc.: Why don't you let Ellen White speak for herself, rather than quoting some out of context trivia you get from your favorite "hate SDAs" website?
---jerry6593 on 8/28/10\\

Everything I know about EGW I got from SDA literature.

I've noticed that none of you are actually DENYING what EGW has said, but are simply dragging in tu quoque and other irrelevancies.

About her "amalgamating" words, let me paraphrase them and see If i understand her properly:

"Other races of mankind since the Flood are the result of animal-humans hybridizing." Is this correct?
---Cluny on 8/28/10


Mima, Cluny, Gary, etc.: Why don't you let Ellen White speak for herself, rather than quoting some out of context trivia you get from your favorite "hate SDAs" website?
---jerry6593 on 8/28/10

Jerry - I attended services at an SDA Church in my area for years. I have all, or most all of Ellen White's books on CD Rom.

I don't get my info from "hate SDA's websites."

I thank the Lord that He opened my eyes to the false SDA doctrines.
---Gary on 8/28/10


"Whenever I send you a testimony of reproof or correction, you reject is as merely the opinion of (insert name here). You have thereby insulted the spirit of God."

There are certain people from every denomination here that do this very thing. The finger shouldnt just be pointed at SDAs.

Any man that only comes to his own enlightenment of the true meaning of holy scriptures AFTER reading or hearing how other men have interpreted them, is putting his faith in those MEN rather than God. This is how cults are started.

God reveals the truth to all his children. Not just a select few. We all have the same Spirit and HE is the One who teaches us the truth of all things. (1 John 2:26,27)
---JackB on 8/28/10


Mima, Cluny, Gary, etc.: Why don't you let Ellen White speak for herself, rather than quoting some out of context trivia you get from your favorite "hate SDAs" website?

"But I do not ask you to take my words. Lay Sister White to one side. Do not quote my words again as long as you live until you can obey the Bible." - EG White, SM3, p33

"I exalt the precious Word before you today. Do not repeat what I have said, saying, "Sister White said this," and "Sister White said that." Find out what the Lord God of Israel says, and then do what He commands." --Manuscript 43, 1901.

Don't you agree with her that we would ALL do well to obey what the Bible tells us to do?
---jerry6593 on 8/28/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Rehab Treatments


GARY & Mima:
I am very sorry that you both have had to
deal with what you considered"indoctrinated" SDA's.
I have been an SDA for over 40 years and I have never experienced indoctrination in my church in regards to my accepting or questioning of EGW's writings.
---Pierre on 8/28/10


My experience with those of the seven-day advance church are very similar to Gary's exper
---mima on 8/28/10


I have many SDA friends and have found that they have been so indoctrinated into Ellen White's writing that they mix those writing with the Word and can't seem to separate the two.

They will quote what they believe to be scripture. Then when I ask them to show it to me in God's Word, many times they can't find it BECAUSE IT CAME FROM ELLEN WHITE, not God's Word.

I recall reading many years ago where Ellen White said, and I paraphrase, if someone shows you scripture that contradicts our teachings, don't receive it. When I read her words I knew, without any doubt in my mind, that SDA is a cult and NOT of God.
---Gary on 8/28/10


\\CLUNY: That was a "cheap" EGW shot! You could have chosen to give the whole quote as well as some of the discussion around it to be fairer!
---Pierre on 8/28/10\\

How about this one, Pierre?

"Whenever I send you a testimony of reproof or correction, you reject is as merely the opinion of Sister White. You have thereby insulted the spirit of God."

She's here claiming infallibility for her own utterances, beyond Pio Nono's wildest dreams.
---Cluny on 8/28/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Stocks


CLUNY: I was not reinterpreting the word SILENCE but just pointing ot that according to students of the ORIGINAL GREEK languag the word in his context does not signify total silence but rather "quietness" and peacefulness." After all Paul clearly tells us in 1 Cor 11:5 that women were encouraged to pray and prophcy along with others in the congregation BUT not in a leadership role.
---Pierre on 8/28/10


Pierre:

Regardless of you happen to re-interpret the word "silence", the fact remains that Paul did not permit a woman to teach, and usurp authority over man.


Cluny:

Saying "races are the same" is blind political correctness. Saying "races are different" is realism. Saying "races are different, and some are better than others" is racism.
---StrongAxe on 8/28/10


cluny: "If this isn't racism, what is?"

As a staunch defender of secular theories of origins, I thought you'd recognize this MOST RACIST book:

"The Origin of Species by Natural Selection - or - The Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life" - Charles Darwin
---jerry6593 on 8/28/10


CLUNY: That was a "cheap" EGW shot! You could have chosen to give the whole quote as well as some of the discussion around it to be fairer!
---Pierre on 8/28/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Diabetes


\\First note that SILENCE, does not signify "total silence" but rather "quietness" and "peacefulness." \\

ANYTHING rather than obey the pure word of God, eh, Pierre?

How do you deal with this quotation from EGW (whose name adds up to 666):

___________

" Since the flood there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men."
_______

If this isn't racism, what is?
---Cluny on 8/27/10


I am not an Adventist so will leave it to them to reply if they so desire.

However I often wonder about the regular threads which challenge Adventists while 'Christians' with outrageous antiBiblical or nonBiblical views are generally left alone as though their transgressions are ok. On these pages we see liberals, compromisers, theistic evolutionists et al who are rarely if ever challenged about their non/antiScriptural views other than by a few such as Jerry, MarkV, Michael, and myself.

Do I have it right that the majority consider their errant views to be acceptable as long as they don't belong to such as the SDA?
---Warwick on 8/27/10


First note that SILENCE, does not signify "total silence" but rather "quietness" and "peacefulness." In Timothy, Paul gives the reason for women to execise only a supportive role in the church. Paul looks to the creational model for Adam's primacy in the home and church.Because of being first in the order of God's creation, only the man was to be the auhoritarian spokesman to the church.
God teaches that He has established an order of authority for the church, where the man was to be spiritual diector. Women would have important roles to play, involving prayer, prophesying and worship but they were not permitted to exercise spiritual authority which had been specifically assgned to the man,
---Pierre on 8/27/10


Copyright© 1996-2015 ChristiaNet®. All Rights Reserved.