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Belief In God And Darwin

God said that He made man and the animals. Evolution says that Random Chance and "natural selection" made them. Can a Christian believe both God and Darwin?

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 ---jerry6593 on 8/28/10
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//show me where in the Bible that animals or plants never died, or were never subject to decay or disease before the Fall.// -Cluny

"And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold it was very good." (Gen.1:31)

I wouldn't call decay and disease "very good"...
And how can you call something that is yet not fully developed "very good"?

The Bible is very clear in that God created it all in 6 literal days, and then He blessed the 7th day, thus underlining the week of completeness. No need for further developement!

"Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were NOT MADE OF THINGS WHICH DO APPEAR" (Hebr.11:3)
---ann on 9/8/10

Ann: "It's just not possible to combine the two paradigms..."

You are so right on!!!

2Co 6:14 ... what communion hath light with darkness?


Cluny: "That's why I believe God guided it [Evolution]."

If your god used time-dependant, random-chance, mutation/natural selection to produce the life we see on our planet, then your god is a liar!

My God wrote with His own finger:

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is
---jerry6593 on 9/8/10

\\If God guided evolution... how, then, should we explain how sin, death, disease and decay came into being? \\

HUMAN death, disease, and decay is the result of sin. I'm not arguing that.

But show me where in the Bible that animals or plants never died, or were never subject to decay or disease before the Fall.

At the risk of sounding gross, when pre-lapsarian Adam and Eve eliminated, wouldn't this have had to decay? And aren't you glad it did?

Or do you think that such coprolites (as they are called in geology) would still be preserved somewhere?
---Cluny on 9/7/10

If God guided evolution... how, then, should we explain how sin, death, disease and decay came into being? If we seriously think about these things, we'll find that there is no possibility to explain them - with the biblical definitions of them - in the paradigm of an evolution.

For instance: The Bible says that DEATH is a result of SIN. But according to evolution DEATH would have occoured MANY TIMES before the first human (who was to make the first sin!) had even evolved...

It's just not possible to combine the two paradigms... And we do not have to. Scientists who don't believe in God, will of course reject creation. But many scientists who believe find NO PROBLEM with the biblical story about creation from nothing.
---ann on 9/7/10

May I say that I also think that a godless model of evolution requires that too many things evolve at the same time.

That's why I believe God guided it.
---Cluny on 9/7/10

Steven: Is that the best you can do - horse bones? You no doubt refer to the famous Marsh Horse Series. This trash that fills our classroom textbooks has long ago been shown to be bogus. Many of Othniel Marsh's horse fossils came from the same geographic strata, thus negating their time-dependant evolution from one to another. In fact, you can find most of the horse bone sizes in living horses today. Oh, and did you know that Eohippus, Marsh's smallest "horse" wasn't evan a horse at all, but rather a hyrax (also called the Cony, Rock Badger, or Daman).

Care to try again?
---jerry6593 on 9/6/10

Ex.33.11 ,Ex.24.9,10.There is no "english" on my english.Here is more people that has seen God counter to what Paul,John,Jesus said -No man has seen God.It is a great stretch to say they (did not see God face to face) especially when they could also see God's feet.
And your reply on the Adam's creation credibility of my previous post is?
---earl on 9/5/10

Jerry, as you are stating one can't believe both in the Bible and evolution. Even if I was not a Christian, I couldn't believe in evolution as it is the silliest theory out there. To think for example that an eyeball just slowly formed over millions of years. How silly. Hilter loved the theory of evolution as it laid the ground work to kill millions of Jews, blacks and retarded people. Since according to evolution these were the lowest life forms of humans and slowed down the evolution of mankind.

Most Christians truly don't understand what the Bible or Darwin have to say about creation. If they did, Christians would understand that Darwin's theory is totally crazy to the max.
---Alan on 9/5/10

Jerry 6593,

Horse bones have shown that Horses were small like dogs eons ago, you want to talk about Horses ? Wiki it and tell me there isn't mountains of evidence. You may dispute everything that science says, but my point is that the evidence is certainly there. New earth science seems hooky at best and as you can see I don't believe Scripture supports it.
---Steven on 9/5/10

earl: What is your problem? Are you looking for ways to disbelieve the Bible? You obviously don't know the Bible very well, nor do you read with accuracy. As an example, your statement:

"From what you just stated is [sic] that Moses did see God face to face"

is not correct. I quoted the Bible which said that Moses SPOKE with God face to face. That is completely different than "Moses SAW God face to face." If you were at all familiar with the Bible, you would know that God veiled Himself in a cloud when He passed before Moses.
---jerry6593 on 9/5/10

Your second answer is different from your first.
From what you just stated is that Moses did see God face to face as if looking in to the eyes of a man and also believe Jesus when he said that "no man has seen God" as did John the baptist and Paul.And you go on to say that both scripts are true.Are you not putting a little english on the ball? br And you claim what truth?.
And you say that Adam was the 6th day creation after all other things were made but where in any of the 6 days did God plant a garden?The garden is not recorded on any day of God's creation is it?And plants and herbs did not yield until Adam was created so he then is created pre plant life.T or F ?And what day ,not women, but was Eve created?
---earl on 9/4/10

\\(2) God gets out of the way and lets Evolution take over to produce the animals.\\

Except that I believe the God guided evolution. It was not a random, mindless process.
---Cluny on 9/4/10

Chad: Now let me see if I've got this straight.

(1) God makes some DNA components in single-celled animals.

(2) God gets out of the way and lets Evolution take over to produce the animals.

(3) God places man on the earth - then we evolve to destroy the earth in order to influence mutation.

Now that's a rational, divine plan that's hard to argue with.
---jerry6593 on 9/4/10

No. The two beliefs contradict each other, so, one has to believe either one OR the other. True that many breeds of animals, like some cats and dogs, did not exist during the initial Creation, but, they are a result of cross-breeding, NOT Evolution. Evolution is a theory conjured up by a man, and men, who wanted to have their sinful cake and eat it too. i.e., they wanted to deny the act of Creation, which in turn, denies the Existence of GOD, so that they could live in their pleasurable sin and not have to answer to a Holy Creator on Judgment Day and be condemned to Everlasting Damnation. But, of course, they will be. :-(
---Gordon on 9/4/10

The Bible doesn't say HOW God created, only that He spoke and it came into being, that it took place in 6 days, and that it was all perfect when this short(!) period was over. And the Bible honours God as the CREATOR.

The different theories of evolution have no room for God. Some Christians try to combine the two... But the scientists of evolution have already EXCLUDED God's existence. Therefore they look for other possible explanations to what we see. That's logic.

Personally I believe in creation and in the Bible. God is described as a God of order (1Cor.14:33), who also supports the weak. He wouldn't work according to the principles of "random chance" and "natural selection". :-)
---ann on 9/4/10

I'll answer this easy question: yes. God made all the animals, but first He had to make all the necessary components of DNA in single-celled organisms and after that, evolution takes over. Now about God creating man...well, I believe we were placed on Earth by God's hand, but not to live among His creations. Man has evolved to destroy nature. We believe that just because we are the only known sentient beings in the universe that we are seperate from nature, and all the detruction we cause shouldn't be stopped because we ARE part of nature, and our job is to destroy it in order to influence mutation.
---Chad on 9/4/10

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earl: "jerry,Ex.33.11 is not true."

I'm sorry, but unless we agree that the Bible is true, then we have no common ground for discussion. If you begin to rip out all the pages of the Bible that contain concepts that YOU have deemed untrue, you are left with a worthless mirror of yourself - one that cannot point out your sins.

Yes, ALL of the Bible is true. If your understanding of it crosses your beliefs, then your understanding is faulty - not the scriptures.

"Was Adam created early in God's creation or later in his creation?" Like Warwick said, Adam was created on the sixth ~24-hour day of creation. Straight enough?
---jerry6593 on 9/4/10

Steven: I'm still waiting for a sample of those "mountains of evidence" for Evolution that you spoke of. Maybe just a little pebble.
---jerry6593 on 9/4/10

Part 2
The word "bara" does not mean, "create" (Hebrew actually has no word meaning "create" in the sense of something out of nothing) but "to fatten". If we take the literal definition of "bara" in Genesis 1.1 we have - In the beginning God fattened the heavens and the earth. What does this fattening of the heavens and earth mean? This verse is not showing the creation of the heaven and earth, but rather the fattening or filling up of something that is already there.
---Steven on 9/4/10

Jerry ... Thank you. Your answera are the same as mine.
---alan8566_of_uk on 9/3/10

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Alan: Yes, I think you accurately describe my understanding. I believe that the scriptures did not come to us by secretarial transcription, or by 'automatic writing' as in the case of the Book of Mormon, but rather by thought and/or image inspiration, with the actual descriptive wording being provided by the several authors in their various personal styles and cultural influences. That notwithstanding, the Bible nonetheless presents a cohesieve whole that is nothing short of miraculous.
---jerry6593 on 9/3/10

jerry,Ex.33.11 is not true.Proof and truth is
Jesus,John the baptist and Paul all state no one has seen God.
Now we may consider examining what Paul means when he says "inspired",what is inspired and what is not. In relation to the credibility of genesis creation the author and penman of it has said something untrue compared to what the three above clearly state.Jerry,you said not to be "selective" well
Jerry you chose this above scripture not me.
BUT you did what Warwick would not do-give a straight answer to an honest question.
Was Adam created early in God's creation or later in his creation?
---earl on 9/2/10

Part one
Hebrew word "bara" is a verb and is usually translated as "create" (New English Translations) 1 Samuel 2.29 - Why do you honor your sons more than me by fattening yourselves on the choice parts of every offering made by my people Israel?' The word "fattening" in the passage above is the Hebrew word "bara". The noun form of this verb is "beriya" and can be found in Genesis 41.4 - "And the cows that were ugly and gaunt ate up the seven sleek, fat cows." The word "fat" is the Hebrew word "beriya".
---Steven on 9/2/10

Jerry ... Thank you for your reply.

By turning my questions into statements, you have dodged the questions. Never mind, you have shown that:

You do not believe that Moses claimed to be writing as God's secretary

You do not beleive that Moses claimed that that God wrote everything

It would nseem to follow, apart from the 10 Commandments (from which you quote) it was Moses who wrote the Bible and the early history of the world and of what became the Jewish people.
---alan8566_of_uk on 9/2/10

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Steven: "There is [sic] mountains of evidence that evolution [sic] theory is correct"

Then it shouldn't be too difficult for you to provide us a sample or two to discuss. I challenge you to find even one piece of evidence proving Evolution that will bear scientific scrutiny.
---jerry6593 on 9/2/10

Alan: "Did Moses ever claim to be writing as God's secretary? Did he ever claim that God wrote everything?"

Exo 33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.

Moses claimed that God wrote the following with His own finger in stone:

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Do you think that Moses or God was lying? If not, do you believe what THEY wrote?
---jerry6593 on 9/2/10

earl: "Is every word from genesis to revelation written in your bible God's word?"

Pual answered this question in his second letter to Timothy.

2Ti 3:16 ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Of course, you have the right to not believe the Bible - most people don't believe it. But don't try to selectively choose which scriptures are inspired and which are not. All that remains from such an exercise is a book of personal opinions - a worthless book.
---jerry6593 on 9/2/10

Earl what you are saying is that I have not answered your questions to your satisfaction. I get the feeling that isn't posssible.

I do not dance around anything. Why would I?

Also you ask "Was Adam at the first of creation or a later creation?" Strange question! As there was only one creation Adam was created on the sixth day of the creation.

My time is up, I am now off to the airport.
---Warwick on 9/1/10

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Gen 1:27,31 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him, male and female created he them...And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it was] very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Mar 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
-Moses wrote: Exo 17:14, 24:4, 34:27, Num 33:2, Deu 31:9.
2Pet 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.
Exo 33:11a And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.
Deu 31:24 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,
---micha9344 on 9/1/10

Other than saying God is the author -not a direct answer to the proposed question and stating -multiple writers -not a direct answer to the propose question not a single question was directly answered .I therefore state you have bailed on all three questions.Check for yourself .What a dance.
I cannot see that your statements are reliable but are in fact deceptive.Nicely done.
Honest criticism will either glorify truth or will cause the walls of fiction to crumble.Dodging an answer will surely cause all things to crumble.Your reply is speculation with words,likely,speculate and I believe.You could have said that you did not know the answers.
One more try.Was Adam at the first of creation or a later creation?
---earl on 9/1/10

I thought I answered your question Cluny.

I don't favour any one English translation as experience has shown me you get a better understanding by referring to more than one translation. There are always problems when translating from one language to another. HOWEVER we have the Hebrew and Greek Scriptures from whence the English translations have come. We also have Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek Biblical dictionaries. Plus we also have the scolarly works of many astute people to refer to. And over and way above this we have the Holy Spirit who does illuminate the Scriptures for those why pray upon God's word and earnestly seek understanding.

Therefore let me say that I feel the English translations are more than adequate.
---Warwick on 9/1/10

\\Cluny I believe anyone who approaches God's word in faith will come to understand it, no matter what their language is.\\

I notice that you didn't actually answer my question.
---Cluny on 9/1/10

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Did Moses ever claim to be writing as God's secretary?

Did he ever claim that God wrote everything?
---alan8566_of_uk on 9/1/10

Earl, I don't think you truly seek understanding so no answer will satisfy.

God, the author of the Bible, chose various men to write it by inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

In Genesis there are 11 'toledoth' breaks. Likely this means the person named there is the person God used to record this history. The first Toledoth break occurs at Genesis 2:4 No name is attached so we can speculate this section came directly from God, as no man was present from day one.

The second toledoth break is at Genesis 5:1 I believe this means these records were compiled by Adam.

Is something added if we know which man wrote it?

As regards Moses meeting with God, His word does not need human supplied 'credibility.'
---Warwick on 9/1/10

Cluny I believe anyone who approaches God's word in faith will come to understand it, no matter what their language is. We must submit to Him, and prayerfully study His word, asking the Holy Spirit for enlightenment.

Here I see the writings of faithful people who show deep understanding of His word. Others here make systematic doubt an art-form. They will understand little. And surely will not inherit eternal life. As God's word says-that which is not of faith is of sin.

Each of us chooses his path. I choose to follow Him and am fed daily by His word.

"Faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1. That's how God wants it. Nothing any human believes changes it.
---Warwick on 9/1/10

I read your reply.
And was Moses the author or penman of the Genesis creation story?
Up until Moses's generation who was the keeper of the creation story?
And most importantly for credibility purposes did Moses see God?
---earl on 9/1/10

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\\Earl I believe that the Bible in English is a correct translation of God's word.\\

Which English translation, Warwick?
---Cluny on 9/1/10

Earl I believe that the Bible in English is a correct translation of God's word. Further to that we have the power of the Holy Spirit to guide us in understanding God's word, and in discerning the errors of man.

Jesus and the apostles quoted from every book of the OT as historical reality. I am sure the God who provided us the OT is capable of providing us with a true and honest record in the NT. It is by faith we believe, saving faith.

I would like to say more but I am off to Europe tomorrow for 2 months and running out of time.

God bless.
---Warwick on 8/31/10

Warwick,In relation to your reply,
Is every word from genesis to revelation written in your bible God's word?
---earl on 8/31/10

Steven, Christians by definition should trust what God's word says. God says in Genesis He created His creatures to reproduce after their own kind. And as initially discovered by a Christian, there is great potential for variety within the kinds. Read up on Mendell.

The evolutionary belief claims life spontaneously appeared and that one kind of creature evolved into a completely different kind. This is speculation, as we do not see this occurring nor is there a proven mechanism for this to occur.

Believers in God's supernatural creation, or naturalistic evolution hold their view by faith. Neither can be scientifically proven.

By faith I trust God because of His promises of forgiveness, salvation, and eternal life!
---Warwick on 8/31/10

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Interesting how dissers like Darwin want to say that the Truth is a damnable doctrine, when it is their own carnality which refuses to submit to their Maker, and instead wants to do their own dmanable sin rather than do the blessable right. The truth is, God Almighty holds all the cards, and rightly so for he is the Maker and thereby also the owner of all that he has made. For scripture basically procalims the truth: 1) Selfish and unruly man needs to be saved. 2) God sent the Savior. 3) Accept the Savior and enjoy salvation, OR 4) Refuse the Savior and continue to perish in the selfishness and eternal separation from God the Savior.
---Eloy on 8/31/10

Warwick, I don't think anyone is claiming Darwin as a great theologian.
---Cluny on 8/31/10

steven, the 'mountains' of evidence only show evolution from an evolutionary viewpoint.
The same evidence is better explained by the creation viewpoint.
If you would like to cite some evidence that compels you to believe in evolution, the viewpoints can further be explained.
---micha9344 on 8/31/10

\\Evolution contains the implicit assumption that nature has within it the motivating force, desire, etc. to push the development of new creatures - new genetic codes - without any supernatural involvement. It is an atheistic process.\\

Darwin himself might have postulated a process that omits or excludes God.

But I do believe in supernatural involvement in the cosmos, and do not exclude the possibility (or probability) that what some see as evolution is in fact God actively at work.

I also acknowledge that God cannot be quantified in the lab.
---Cluny on 8/31/10

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I would say that yes, God made man and animals. I would also say that there is nothing wrong with evolution theroy. I am not a Christian and cannot speak to what a Christian can or cannot believe, but I spend endless hours trying to understand why Christians believe that the Hebrew Scripture excludes natural change in man and animals.There is mountains of evidence that evolution theory is correct and only questionable Scripture and Hapax Legoma to counter this, why couldn't a Christian believe both ?
---Steven on 8/31/10

A little research on Darwin exposed the quotes of his:

"I had gradually come .....[1836-39] to see that the Old Testament was no more to be trusted than the sacred books of the Hindoos or the beliefs of any barbarian."

" by such reflections as these...I gradually came to disbelieve in Christianity as a divine revelation."

"I never gave up Christianity until I was forty years of age."

"I can hardly see how anyone ought to wish Christianity to be true, for if so, the plain language of the text seems to show that the men who do not believe, and this would include my Father, Brother, and almost all my best friends, will be everlastingly punished. And this is a damnable doctrine.
---Warwick on 8/31/10

Earl thank you for your more thoughtful explanation.

As God says creation took place over a period of 6 earth-rotation, evening and morning days as defined in Genesis 1:3-5, confirmed in Exodus 20:8-11. He should know He was there, and He does not missinform. '6-days' of 6 million/6 billion years is an oxymoron-totally contrary to what Scripture says. I can imagine the Israelites living days of a million/billion years each! Never made it to the Sabbath.

Imagine the mess which would have occurred (Exodus 19) if the 'third day' was not the 3rd 24hr day. With sexual relations forbidden until after the third day who would have been there to meet with God?

There is no evolution in Scripture and no Scripture in evolution.
---Warwick on 8/31/10

Axey: "How does this callad [sic] Darwin a liar?"

Evolution contains the implicit assumption that nature has within it the motivating force, desire, etc. to push the development of new creatures - new genetic codes - without any supernatural involvement. It is an atheistic process. There is also the time factor. The Bible says six days, and even if one tries to stretch it to 6000 years, it is far short of the millions of years required by Darwin's theory.
---jerry6593 on 8/31/10

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'Darwin's growing skepticism about religion caused Emma great pain, which in turn caused her husband deep sadness.'-Darwin,American Museum of Natural History.
You are probably right Cluny. CD's father expressed concern over telling his wife about his agnostic beliefs, but it doesn't appear that CD kept anything from his wife.
---micha9344 on 8/30/10

StrongAxe,'evening' is from Hebrew 'ereb2'-dusk, fading of day. 'Morning' is 'boqer' i.e. 'morning.' Evening and morning are defined and equal 1 day, as God says.

The penalty for working on the Sabbath was death so God told them when that day was. Any other interpretation is nonsensical.

For you to cite Joshua's long day as proof the 6 creation days are not ordinary earth-rotation days demonstrates you are desperate to defend your antiBiblical views. I said you would do so at the outset and you do exactly that.

Whether the days were exactly 24hrs is irrelevant but as God says all six were ordinary earth-rotation evening and morning days.

Genesis 1:3-5 shows that God's light also made evening and morning.
---Warwick on 8/30/10

\\He went through the motions most of his life and was scared to have his wife find out his true feelings about God.\\

I don't know where you got this notion. Mrs. Darwin was a Unitarian, and I don't think anything he said would have shocked her.
---Cluny on 8/30/10

'Lobbying brought Darwin Britain's highest scientific honour, the Royal Society's Copley Medal...3 November 1864'-wiki ref129
'Both books(1871-72) proved very popular, and Darwin was impressed by the general assent with which his views had been received, remarking that "everybody is talking about it without being shocked"'-wiki ref138
'" agnostic would be the most correct description of my state of mind."'-wiki ref81+153
'During Darwin's lifetime, many geographical features were given his name.'-wiki
'In recognition of Darwin's pre-eminence as a scientist, he was one of only five 19th-century UK non-royal personages to be honoured by a state funeral, and was buried in Westminster Abbey'-wiki ref13
---micha9344 on 8/30/10

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Genesis 1:3-5 defines day as "evening and morning", but does not define evening and morning (this is in line with the standard Jewish day that starts at the beginning of evening, i.e. sunset)

Exodus 20:8-11 defines a week in terms of days, but says nothing of what a day is.

I have repeatedly asked you to find a single verse that actually defines a day as "24 hours", but you have yet to show one. During recorded human history, sunset-to-sunset days have generally been the same as 24 hours, but was not always true. One exception was the day Joshua commanded the sun to stand still over Gibeon so his troops could achieve victory (Joshua 10:12-13). Also, creations days 1-2 had no sun to measure by.
---StrongAxe on 8/30/10

Warwick,"meaning is unclear".How can you say "collect thoughts" when you do not know what the meaning is?
The meaning is elementary.
The genesis account of creation involves a progression of physical events that are linear which in the physical sense is known as time based .Any growth is time based therefore it is an evolutionary step.If man or any organism grows beyond that which he or it is first concieved then it "is "plainly an act of evolution.
Perfection does not require growth beyond it's first conception-it is complete.
If the earth was once without form then it was not created perfect.It required manipulation -evolution.Time is time -6 days or 60 million-the numbers are irrelevant.
---earl on 8/30/10

Hey, Jerry

We could have a more thorough discussion on a live blog and forum. Check out Ray Comfort and his ambassador alliance location. Lot's of folks over there you could parry with...Discussions sometime run deeper and are somewhat less limited, although I do like it here also.
---atheist on 8/30/10


You said: He has received his reward here on Earth.

Like most thinkers who dare to step out of the box of conventionally-accepted wisdom (this includes other scientists like Galileo, as well as religious teachers such as Jesus and early Christian martyrs and many Jewish prophets), the "rewards on Earth" Darwin received were derision, ridicule, accusations of heresy, etc. - not fame and riches and glory. Any fame and acceptance Darwin has received was largely long after his death, so he never personally enjoyed any of the benefits.
---StrongAxe on 8/30/10

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Darwin was only a professing christian.
The fruit of his works all pointed to his glory not God's.
He went through the motions most of his life and was scared to have his wife find out his true feelings about God.
The old Earth age views of his grandfather and Charles Lyell, who miscalculated Niagara Falls erosion rate, were his main influence.
There was nothing he did in his life for God's glory.
He has received his reward here on Earth.
---micha9344 on 8/30/10

No, a person either believes the Truth, or else a lie.
---Eloy on 8/30/10

Earl, your meaning is unclear. Please take time to collect your thoughts and write them in logical order.

Biblical creation is supernatural, taking place over 6 ordinary days as Scripture says, with no evolution. Scripture gives no support for these days being anything other than ordinary 24hr days.

Secondly there is naturalistic evolution-nothing supernatural. This is not mentioned in Scripture, and is is contradicted by Scripture.

Thirdly there is Theistic-Evolution, the idea God used evolution to create. This is an oxymorn, a contradiction in terms. Why would supernatural Almighty God need naturalistic process to create?

Genesis creation is not evolution but a day by day account of what was done each 24hr day.
---Warwick on 8/30/10

Cluny you say "Whether it took millions of years or 6 days--the result is the same"

Not so. God defines creation day-length (Genesis 1:3-5 confirmed by Exodus 20:8-11) and says creation occurred over 6 ordinary days.

God's word says death came after Adam's sin i.e. there was no death before Adam's sin-the basis of the gospel. If creation was achieved over millions of years then creatures including Adam's ancestors must have died. This is why evolutionists claim the world-wide fossil record (containing the fossilized remains of billions of creatures including man) records the vast ages of evolution. This contradicts God's word.

If you are correct God is wrong in saying-the wages of sin is death.
---Warwick on 8/30/10

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"-our solar system planets where sufficient time was required for cool down was wasted gas prior to beginnings of life."
---earl on 8/29/10
This is typical of those who don't believe God and trust their own mind. They look and think in their small intelligence that something couldn't be done by the All Powerful God.
Telll us Earl, where did the gas and heat come from?
---Elder on 8/30/10


You said: Cluny believes there is a third option in which God created all creatures by using "natural processes". Unfortunately, that option calls both Charles Darwin and God liars. He has set up a false trichotomy.

How does this callad Darwin a liar? Darwin only described the process by which lower species evolved into higher ones, not how the lower species themselves got formed in the first place. Darwin was a Christian himself.

How does this call God a liar? Genesis says God created the animals, but does not go into any detail about just HOW he created them.
---StrongAxe on 8/29/10

Warwick,You forget that the genesis account states the earth was from the earliest account without form and the sun and moon was not yet formed.So yes things did evolve even if you may think the formation of matter -our solar system planets where sufficient time was required for cool down was wasted gas prior to beginnings of life.
---earl on 8/29/10

you know you need to read genesis 1-20-21,God broth forth from the waters every creature that hath life,and fowl that may fly above the earth,boy sounds just like science says all life came from.
---tom2 on 8/29/10

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It is unreasonable to equate evolution with God's supernatural creation.

Any rational comparison of the mechanisms of evolution with God's supernatural 6-day creation shows no similarity. They are opposites even in the order of events.

Why would God who has unlimited power, who lives outside of time, (therefore not constrained by time), use a slow, wasteful, violent method of 'creation' such as evolution?

Had He resorted to evolution He could not claim to be Almighty, as an Almighty God does not need to use such a slow process. He also could not claim to be the Truth as His written account of 6-day creation contains nothing of any form of evolution.
---Warwick on 8/29/10

Evolution, as I was taught in school, is nothing more than a sequential and orderly development from simpler to more complex forms.

This is precisely the pattern in Genesis.

I do not believe that things developed as a result of random chance, but it was guided by God's hand.

Whether it took millions of years or 6 days--the result is the same.

And unlike the popular hypothesis of "panspermia", which claims that "seeds of life" came from other planets or galaxies, I believe that terrestrial biology is strictly earthly.

This too, is in Genesis.
---Cluny on 8/29/10


There is no question that The Lord God Almighty is the architect of the universe and The Creator of all things that are "Good".

The only time "natural selection" could be reasonably applied is if, for instance, black bunnies and white bunnies co-existed in the Artic. Obviously, white bunnies would survive because they are hard to see under snowy conditions, whereas predators would easily see the black bunnies against the white background and in short order all the black bunnies would be eradicated, thus erasing the genetic code for bunnies with black fur from that geographic region.

Is this a form of natural selection? Yes, but I would not trust Darwinian philosophies much farther than this.
---Higgins on 8/29/10

Jerry6593, the called of our Father, believes, what he/she believes, The Father said.
I believe, just as it is written, in what I believe, is His written word.
"By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, And all the host of them by the breath of His mouth. For He spoke, and it was done, He commanded, and it stood fast. 'All things' were made through Him, [The Word] and without Him nothing was made that was made. Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen 'were not made' of things which do appear."
Therefore, man, animal, and all things, begin and end with the word of God, the metaphysical process is unknown to us.
---Josef on 8/29/10

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I was told that true science requires repeatable experimentation and evidence. To my knowledge, there have been no repeated experiments, at all, which have even started to prove evolution. So, it is not even a proper scientific theory, but evolution is just people's *interpretation*, unproven, of things they have observed.

So, why would people be so eager to believe what hasn't been proven? Why would people hold, so emotionally, to what is just *interpretation*? I'd say that we humans tend to see things the way we want things to be. And a number of folks live in competition, trying to be the fittest, so they can get what they want. So, the idea of evolution could be a "projection" of how competitive people are.
---Bill_bila5659 on 8/29/10

Psalms 148:5 Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created.
Isaiah 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, [even] my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
1Cor 11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman, but the woman for the man.
Gen 2:20b,22 but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him. And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
It looks quite immediate to me.
---micha9344 on 8/28/10

Candice: I believe you and not cluny. Cluny believes there is a third option in which God created all creatures by using "natural processes". Unfortunately, that option calls both Charles Darwin and God liars. He has set up a false trichotomy.
---jerry6593 on 8/28/10

Noway! God says in Genesis 1:1>>>In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth". He does not say something evolved randomly, or just evolved, or it just happened, or by chance. God does not say this. You know this whole thing is STUPID. God expects to get all the credit for what He has done. We had better be taking God at His word. Here it is one more time. "In the beginning God created" This means everything. Heavens and the earth. And He goes about explaining what He did on each day. Why can't we just believe Him. He said He did it, and He did. IT. Hallelujah.
---catherine on 8/28/10

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Perhaps there isn't evolution,a process,perhaps it's mutation,instant, brought about not by enviroment but by chance coming together of two genes which were faulty or different from the norm in a species thus producing something new. We are not bound by mans terms or beliefs about what goes on here on earth to bring changes in the flora and fauna on this planet. God created it all and as with everything else in our world God is in control but sometimes with his creations he isn't pleased with them and he can change them,look at humankind when it failed to follow him. He sent a flood and destroyed all life which wasn't taken onto the Ark. Washing the world clean and clear in a "baptism",so to speak,of water.
---Darlene_1 on 8/28/10

Evolution is simply a natural process that I believe God Himself set up.

And I believe that 99% of the time, at least, God works through these natural processes.

Therefore, I don't believe the changes were random.

So you're setting up a false dichotomy. There are more alternatives than two.
---Cluny on 8/28/10

No. choose one or the other. no man can serve 2 masters.
---Candice on 8/28/10

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