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Unsaved In Bars And Casinos

As a Christian, knowing there are unsaved in bars, and casinos, what should we do?

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 ---Valerie on 9/5/10
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Kath-- HUH? What an imagination you do have!
I agree with Romans 1 & 2, MAN is responsible for MAN's hardened heart..not God! But God does not force Salvation on anyone who absolutely will not believe.

The trouble is, you are arguing an extreme position.You think it has to be either,
1. Man chooses his own destiny or
2. God forordains every move an individual makes.

As a practical matter, most believers accept something in between.
---Donna66 on 11/21/10


Kathr, I think you should read the Scriptures and then answer. you said,
"MarkV, It's the Holy Spirit who draws us to Jesus Christ, and then Jesus brings us TO THE FATHER."
No Kathr, It is the Father who draws people to Himself and turns them over to Christ. John 6:44.
"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day"
You had also prior said,
""that God cannot reach down out of the Holy of Holies and save anyone."
When you speak of God you forget or don't know that all three persons are God. If you want to say the Father say the Father, if the Son then say the Son.
---Mark_V. on 11/21/10


If God wanted from the very beginning to create a PERFECT universe without any rebellion re: angels, man, HE would have.

He would have His perfect universe period. After all, when it's all said and done, that IS what will be, and we won't even REMEMBER what went on here before.

I don't believe God wants ROBOTS. That proves nothing of God's charactor of Love and Mercy.
---kathr4453 on 11/21/10


Well lets see Donna66, According to your gospel, Jesus sacrifice was not needed REALLY! God just stepped over Jesus and reached dow and picked out who he wanted. No Christ is necessary for that.

So after reading then Bible according to your Election, God picked out before hand:
1.) POOR PEOPLE,(not the rich ruler 2) those with Child like faith, 3)Those who asked for Mercy ( be merciful to me a sinner)

All these were created with some microchip within, robots doing as God preplanned for them to do! Hummm!

You honestly believe this? I do not. According to Romans 1 & 2, MAN is responsible for MAN's hardened heart..not God!
---kathr4453 on 11/21/10


Jack ... I have qhoted that many times here ... and they never respond.
---alan8566_of_UK on 11/21/10




//Question: Did the lost sheep search for the shepherd until he found him?
No,It was the other way around. Sheep never do that.And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
//

Ill play along Donna...

Luke 15:17-20

And when he came to himself
(when he came to his senses), he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!

I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,

And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
---JackB on 11/20/10


Kath-- Glad to hear you shared the sense of awe and amazement of the conference speaker. For a moment there, it sounded like God should count HIMSELF lucky to have you choose Him.
---Donna66 on 11/20/10


JackB--Wonderful parable that Jesus taught!

if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.


Question: Did the lost sheep search for the shepherd until he found him?
No,It was the other way around. Sheep never do that.And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

---Donna66 on 11/20/10


If there was any such thing as Limited atonement it would be that the blood of bulls and goats was only limited in POWER to forgive and cleanse and make perfect anyine. It could not, it's POWER ws limited. However, it covered ALL THE SIN OF ALL THE PEOPLE.

The People of Israel that is. Now if the atonement today was limited, that is Jesus Blood, it would be limited to Israel ONLY.

But we see in John 3:16 it was/is not. It's to WHOSOEVER meaning it now included GENTILES..not limited gentiles, but Jew and Gentile, meaning ALL MEN EVERYWHERE can find salvation in Jesus death and resurrection.
---kathr4453 on 11/20/10


.MarkV, It's the Holy Spirit who draws us to Jesus Christ, and then Jesus brings us TO THE FATHER.

I believe you are the one twisting as it suits you. It's not the first time I've seen you kick Jesus to the curb. Yes Jesus atoned for everyones sin, however SALVATION is not having your sin atoned for ONLY, but only to those who Identify in JESUS DEATH and resurrection not only activate the Power of His Blood in their life, personally, but now are SAVED BY HIS(CHRIST'S) RISEN LIFE.

Galatians 2:20!!

Entering through the veil, that is to say His Flesh,a NEW CREATURE WITH Christ in you gives you access to the Father. There is NO SALVATION apart from the WHOLE work of Christ.
---kathr4453 on 11/20/10




Kathr, what kind of religion are you preaching when you say,

I also know through the types and shadows of the OT sanctuary, "that God cannot reach down out of the Holy of Holies and save anyone." THAT is WHY He sent His Son, to die in the flesh removing the vail that separated man from GOD."

God cannot reach down and save anyone? What kind of nonesense it that? Who do you think God is? Who do you think Jesus is? The Father sent the Son. The human person of Jesus is God incarnate. The more you talk, the further away you go, the more nonesense we hear.
---Mark_V. on 11/20/10


//Did you think He should rejoice because YOU had finally chosen HIM?//- Donna66


Yep

Luke 15:3-7


And he spake this parable unto them, saying,
What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost.
I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
---JackB on 11/20/10


Laura, did you not read what I wrote? I will paste it again.
"First, God is not the author and finisher of anyone's sin. He is pure and Holy. Get that right.
Second, "Jesus Christ who atones for your sins is God" The "Holy Spirit who gives spiritual life is God" and the "Father who draws you to Himself is also God" Get that right."

Did I ever say that Jesus is the Holy Spirit? Or, that the Father was the Son? I believe you guys have a duty to twist what I say just to argue. Hey, at least Steven G was man enough to say he wanted to shame me. All three persons of the Trinity make up the Godhead. Study the doctrine of the Trinity and you will know the Truth and it will set you free.
---Mark_V. on 11/20/10


Donna66, what I do find amazing is a Loving God who so loved His creation, that immediately after Adam & Eve sinned, he COVERED Them, and not only so, promised a redeemer in Genesis 3:15. And as a Jew, I am also amazed there is no such thing as God limiting any atonement for only certain People. I also know through the types and shadows of the OT sanctuary, that God cannot reach down out of the Holy of Holies and save anyone. THAT is WHY He sent His Son, to die in the flesh removing the vail that separated man from GOD. We can come TO GOD now,that is through the veil /Christ's flesh Hebrews 10 that separated all mankind from God. Amazing now ANYONE can COME TO GOD through Christ!!!! JUST AMAZING!
---kathr4453 on 11/20/10


Kath4453 --//"I can't believe God reached down and picked ME out and saved ME."//

Did you have no sense of amazement.,of wonder, that God should offer you, with all your sin, the gift of eternal life!? Did you think you were worth His sacrifice, after all? Or that God didn't want you as an individual-- because His was just a blanket offer to everyone. Did you think He should rejoice because YOU had finally chosen HIM?

No, I don't really think you did.
But I think you misinterpreted the above statement and the spirit with which it was spoken.
---Donna66 on 11/19/10


Interesting. Was the confidence MarkV had at his salvation 8 years prior held fast, or did it take a detour in another direction.?

It's east to be told what to believe, no faith required. But to press on IN CHRIST ALONE is work!
---kathr4453 on 11/19/10


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Mark, it has been almost a year now since Ive been on these blogs and I have seen MANY MANY people try to reach you and all have provided scripture directly refuting your doctrine.

It almost seems as thought its a necessary part of your faith to see others as unloved by God and less than you are. My heart tells me it is rooted in bitterness due to some sort of personal persecution you have endured in the past and now is your chance to be on top by being 'the elect'.

I do believe you are a child of God because you profess faith in Jesus Christ but I completely disagree with your lack of compassion and heartache that you exhibit towards the lost world. You almost seem happy that some arent chosen. That is not from the Holy Spirit.
---JackB on 11/18/10


Mark, you can scratch the question I asked about WHEN you got saved. Apparently you believe it was before you became a Calvinist, which is what I really wanted to know.

//I believe there is no denomination which is completely clean and correct on all doctrines. The Pentecostal Church that I joined when I was saved, was build by three pastors combining three churches. //---MarkV

It actually makes me feel better to know that you do believe you were saved before becoming a Calvinist. That means surely you know others here from other denominations that disagree with you are also saved by the blood of Jesus Christ.
---JackB on 11/18/10


I took Galatians 2:20-21 and put GOD where Christ's name is.

I am crucified with God, it is no longer I but God who lives in me, and the life that I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of God who loved me and gave Himself for me. I do not make void the Grace of God, for If righteousness comes by keeping the law, God died in vain.

That takes on serious issues indeed!

God wasn't Curcified, For God so loved the world he gave HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON,(very important here)

God being eternal cannot die, God being holy could never have become sin for us.

That is why His only Begotten Son, born of the seed of Abraham born of the seed of David came.

Will MarkV ever get that THROUGH HIS HEAD!!
---kathr4453 on 11/18/10


The object of Hebrews 3..(Verse 1) "holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling"

"But Christ as a son over his own house, whose house are we, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end"

"Take heed, brethren(verse 1), lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day, lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end"
---JackB on 11/18/10


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Mark you just destroyed "Perseverance of the Saints" by saying that scripture is speaking to the elect/saved only.

//"Today, if you will hear His voice"
Only His sheep hear His voice and follow Him. Those passage are calling for all those who hear already, not to harden their hearts as in the rebellion.//---MarkV

And as youve said in previous blogs, only those who are "born of the Spirit" can "hear" God, right? And those that "hear" him WILL have faith in Jesus and will never fall away?

So then why does the Holy Spirit warn them of the same judgement if we TOO harden our hearts?

"So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest"
---JackB on 11/18/10


Mark, Im starting to notice that when pressed with scripture that contradicts your beliefs, you become desperate and change the OBJECT of scripture to suite your doctrine. But as in this case in Hebrews 3, your desperate attempt to prove Irresistable Grace has put a nail in the coffin of Perserverance of the Saints. Which one are you gonna stick with?

Ive seen you do this time and time again and Im sure Im not the only one to notice it.

So are you gonna be a TUL_P Calvinist or a TULI_ Calvinist? You cant possibly read Hebrews 3 and 4 and still believe in ALL 5 points. I know youre an intelligent enough man to see how they dont BOTH fit in those scriptures.
---JackB on 11/18/10


2 Corinthians 6:1-2

As Gods co-workers we urge you not to receive Gods grace in vain. 2 For he says,

In the time of my favor I heard you,
and in the day of salvation I helped you.

I tell you, now is the time of Gods favor, now is the day of salvation.

Here Paul is saying the same thing to Gentiles. TODAY, God's FAVOR is open to ALL. Praise God!!!


Also isn't it interesting Paul also says Don't receive God's grace in Vein...how is that possible under Calvin's doctrine that we don't receive but it's forced on us.

So too, can some have grace forced on them in VAIN by God's irresistible Grace???
---kathr4453 on 11/18/10


MarkV, I'm having issues with your interpretation of the Trinity. The Holy Spirit did not come in the flesh, and return in the Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is not the man Christ Jesus.

God did not die, Jesus did.

The Holy Spirit did not die, Jesus did.

God is not sitting next to himself on His right hand. Jesus is.
---Laura on 11/18/10


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Kathr, again you talk in riddles to make a point. You said,

"No MarkV the Bible says of Christians ONLY, I CAN DO ALL THINGS THROUGH CHRIST.
So yes, anyone without Christ CAN SIN without God being the author and finisher of their sin."


First, God is not the author and finisher of anyone's sin. He is pure and Holy. Get that right.
Second, "Jesus Christ who atones for your sins is God" The "Holy Spirit who gives spiritual life is God" and the "Father who draws you to Himself is also God" Get that right.


---Mark_V. on 11/18/10


MarkV, again you misquote scripture:

Hebrews 3:6-8

6But Christ as a son over his own house, whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

7Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, TODAY if ye will hear his voice, (((NOT YESTERDAY or tomorrow, but TODAY IF YOU WILL HEAR

8Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

Again, why would they be asked NOT to harden their hearts like Vs 8 states, if God already Hardened them!

TODAY is the DAY of SALVATION because Christ had died and RISEN!!!!
---kathr4453 on 11/18/10


No MarkV the Bible says of Christians ONLY, I CAN DO ALL THINGS THROUGH CHRIST.

So yes, anyone without Christ CAN SIN without God being the author and finisher of their sin.
---kathr4453 on 11/18/10


The word says let not your good be evil spoken of.
If those in bars wanted to hear the word they would either be in church or at least find a true televangelist that preaches the truth, as hard as that is to find.
The word is clear that the Spirit of God leads to repentance and Jesus said the fields are ripe already to harvest.
The Lord already knows who is in the Book of Life and is more than able to lead them to a person that is willing to share the gospel.
Giving a bad witness by going into a bar is a good way to make a mockery of the word of God. There are other places to see these people.
---Frank on 11/18/10


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Your debate has been all talk and more opinions. Opinions means beans, and as I said they only bring gas, and we pass gas.

"Without God you can do nothing. Nothing."

He brings spiritual life to people.
He gives understanding of the word of God.
He grants repentance so that people will be convicted of sin and change.
He brings His gospel to people.
He grants faith to believe in Christ to some people when they hear it.
He indwells those people with the Holy Spirit.
He seals those people with the Spirit.
He secures those people until the Day of the Lord.
I believe man can do nothing without God.
"The glory goes to God"
---Mark_V. on 11/18/10


Hebrews chapter three Verse 7 says,
"Today, if you will hear His voice"
Only His sheep hear His voice and follow Him. Jesus said,
"He who is of God hears God's words, therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God" John 8:47.
Those passage are calling for all those who hear already, not to harden their hearts as in the rebellion.
When you teach that good is evil, and evil is good, you too are in rebellion for hardening your own heart. You call God's word false and your word truth. It is you who teach false teaching. And make a mockery of the Word of God.
Go ahead a follow me, it only shows the evidence of your own heart.
---Mark_V. on 11/18/10


//Here is what I believe about both of you, both of you are saved, but both want to take the glory for that salvation.//---MarkV

We have denied that numerous times and you simply would rather accuse us of lying I guess.
If we had no sin from this day forward that still would not make up for past sins. We still would not DESERVE life. It was God who opened our eyes to the truth.

Our only debate with you is that you dont believe God extents that truth to all men and that some simply resist it because they dont want to allow God in their life. The Holy Ghost warns men NOT to harden their hearts against Him. EVEN HE SAYS ITS POSSIBLE(Hebrews 3). You are the one who doesnt believe it.
---JackB on 11/17/10


//Your record keeping can only be of value to repay evil for evil//--Mark_Eaton

Is it evil to expose someone as a liar and a false prophet if it protects others here who may not know Christ?

I know I dont want them believing in a false Christ anymore than you do, MarkE. I consider it my duty as a son of God to fight for the truth. I will not remain lukewarm and allow people to fall into cults before my very eyes. Not without at least warning them of the person they are listening to.
---JackB on 11/17/10


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This is why about a year ago I started keeping records of the things people say here.
---JackB on 11/16/10

I normally stay out of your fighting with MarkV but I must jump into this and ask, Why do you want to visit vengence upon someone here? Your record keeping can only be of value to repay evil for evil. Please stop it now, before something ugly happens.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/17/10


I remember the day and the hour when I experienced the Spirit of God in my life. Those things I never forget. I never had any trouble believing Scripture as both of you have. You have not answered one passage that I or Christian, or Donna66, or James L, or Shawn T and others have posted. All you both do is complain, tell stories and give your opinions and reject the Word of God given to both of you. Here is what I believe about both of you, both of you are saved, but both want to take the glory for that salvation. You refuse to permit God to impose His will on you, you want to have your own rights. Which really tells me that neither one of you are dependent upon Christ works, but dependent upon your own works.
---Mark_V. on 11/17/10


JackB, I remember after I got saved going to a Bible conference. I didn't know what a Calvinist was. It was a Calvinist Conference. I'll never forget the speakers OPENING REMARKS

" ME, ME, I can't believe God saved ME out of all the people in the whole world, I can't believe God reached down and picked ME out and saved ME."

Now that did not witness with My Spirit. I just knew it was an odd statement. I've heard others testimonies before, but never one like that.

Being I was there too with my Mother in Law who wasn't saved...I was disappointed the Gospel wasn't preached. My Mother in law got hooked on this teacher that weekend, and to this day, has NEVER received Christ, and believes she's saved by GOOD WORKS!!!
---kathr4453 on 11/16/10


Well hopefully Mark can clear up the matter for us.

This is why about a year ago I started keeping records of the things people say here.
---JackB on 11/16/10


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I know in another blog you told me that you were a bible believing Christian 8 years before you became a Calvinist.

---JackB on 11/16/10


Now I'm confused. MarkV said in another blog, that he was going through a difficult time over something, and his neighbor came over and WITNESSED the Gospel to him. I asked if he received Christ with his neighbor. He said he went to Church following that, and then got saved.

THEN that proves faith comes by hearing. He FIRST heard the word...then got saved and then received the Holy Spirit. There was NO HOLY SPIRIT experience when his neighbor came over first!!!
---kathr4453 on 11/16/10


First Corinthians 14:2,"For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him, howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries." Markv the above may be somewhat helpful.
Because I did not witness this myself I cannot be dogmatic.
---mima on 11/16/10



//I was saved by God's Grace through faith, on April 9th, 1990.//---MarkV


Mark, Im sorry but that doesnt help me any.
Thats the date that you believe you were saved. Im tryin to find out when you became a Calvinist.

I know in another blog you told me that you were a bible believing Christian 8 years before you became a Calvinist. Im just curious as to whether or not you think you now believe you were saved those first 8 years.

Please be a little more specific.
---JackB on 11/16/10


MarkV, I believe we all Know that God's plan of salvation was from the foundation of the world, actually before. And anyone TODAY who receives Jesus Christ as their savior are called BEGOTTEN SONS.

Israel was/is also God's Chosen people. The Puritans came to America and announced themselves as God's NEW Chosen People, and America, God's NEW Promise land. BUT just because they believed it, didn't make it true. They took CHOSEN out of context, just as you have. You did not exist at the creation of the world, or even before the creation of the world.

God from creation has made Himself KNOWN to His creatures. Romans 1 & 2! And has now made Himself known through Jesus Christ. Hebrews 1-2.


---kathr4453 on 11/16/10


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Calvinism is one of many schools of thought, though the most influential, in Protestantism.

Jean Chauvin was wrong about many things, and has egregious errors, but not on his Christology, which is traditional.

However, we should always remember that our faith should be in our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ Himself, and not in a theory (be it Chauvin's or anyone else's) about how He saves us.

There's a BIG difference between the two, but it seems to be lost on many people here.
---Cluny on 11/16/10


I was saved by God's Grace through faith, on April 9th, 1990. I never had a problem believing that God saved me. That I was in rebellion against God and that not because of anything I did right or wrong that He saved me,
For I was in darkness and " He had mercy on me, and reached out and brought me to the light."
I learned through God's Word that He chose me from the creation of the world after I was saved. God revealed His Word to me, that He is the Creator and Ruler of all, and that no one can stand His hand. I learned that the God of Scripture can only be known by those whom He makes Himself known. And I accept His Word by faith.
---Mark_V. on 11/16/10


Kathr, it seems to me that if a tongue talking on fire person was talking, he could not possibly be talking in all different kinds of languages, in tongues at the same time, in one gathering. Unless you know of any. I sure don't. There would have to be as many tongue talking people as there is other people from different nations. I hear a lot of stories from Mima that are good ones, but this one I didn't think it was possible. Just my opinion. It did not come from Scripture.
---Mark_V. on 11/16/10


Second the tongue talking on fire people, would have to have a gathering of people from other nations since tongues is talking about other languages.
---Mark_V. on 11/15/1

I'll bet people from all over the world come to Vegas!!
---kathr4453 on 11/15/10


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MarkV

Were you saved the first 8 years of your Christians life before you became a Calvinist?
---JackB on 11/15/10


Mima, I didn't call you a liar. the story cannot be true when you said,
Story about casinos, occasionally casinos in Las Vegas are visited by tongue talking, on fire for God, preaching laypeople.'
You didn't say you did. The story has to be bogus. Because casinos do not let anyone gather together on the floor to preaching from some tongue talking person. The employees would be fired, and security would not be possible. I thought that would be common sense to know. Maybe the casino you are talking about don't have security, or don't mind, then it would be true. In Vegas everyone minds. Second the tongue talking on fire people, would have to have a gathering of people from other nations since tongues is talking about other languages.
---Mark_V. on 11/15/10


Sister Donna66, I was not answering Harold but Mima. I was taken by what he said about preaching in a casino. More because of security, now maybe they did that in some unsecured room. But never on the floor. As you, I was not a Christian all my life. I know the ends and outs of bars and casinos. It's hard to imagine that someone would be allowed to preach to a gathering of people in a Casino mainly because of security, plus employees would be fired, and what can you preach in a short time? The gospel of Christ? In Tongues? with fire? I use to see many witnessing in the streets. In fact one of our pastors has a church in Vegas and goes on the streets many times.
---Mark_V. on 11/15/10


Stay as far away from those places as possible. Don't set yourself up for Satan to tempt you. If you must witness to them, God doesn't expect you to walk into those places. There is sin, not to mention demonic spirits there. If you feel you must be a witness, you need to wait until they come out the door, or maybe leave a witnessing pamphlet (tract) with an invitation to church on their windshield.
---judy6696 on 11/12/10


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///be still and be where He tells you. God has been doing This a long time. He knows all the moves.
---aka on 9/6/10////

Another-Amen.
Bless you brother.
---char on 10/26/10


MarkV -- Harold did not say he gathered any kind of group in a bar (which is quite DIFFERENT from a casino.) I envisioned him conversing 1:1 or 1:2 at the most. Most VFW halls have a small bar of sorts. Since Harold is a fellow-vet, veterans belong to the VFW probably listen to him.

Many people drink when they are troubled by something. And, relaxed by the effects of alcohol, they often turn to fellow bar patrons to listen to them and help if possible.

(I'm not going to tell you how I know this...but, suffice it to say, I have not been a Christian all my life)
---Donna66 on 10/26/10


As I stated in another blog I serve at a chaplain for the VFW. As a member I can go into the bar of any post and be able to talk to the veterans. I do not have to indulge in the drinking. Some know my stand and others don't, it doesn't matter at the beginning.
Many of these vets have problems that they will not talk about except to other who have been through the same conditions. Here they will talk and I can try to give some comfort. Over time and building a relationship I can then bring in Christ and they will listen and if God blesses may believe. But they would not have gone to church to hear. Jesus ate with the tax collectors and sinners.
---Harold on 10/26/10


//Your comment about the length of time it takes to present the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ really does expose you as one who believes in progressive salvation.//

Im glad I wasnt the only one to see that.

Mark, if theyre already elected and 'born of the Spirit" before coming to Jesus Christ then why does it take a great deal of time to witness to them?

Youve said before that being 'born of the Spirit" begins before we accept Christ and because we are spiritually reborn thats the only reason we are even able to HEAR the gospel, understand it and have faith in Christ.

So why does witnessing to a "born again" person now require a great deal of time?
---JackB on 10/24/10


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---MarkV your first statement gently called me a liar. Your second statement introduces witnessing if you carefully read you will find that I did not mention witnessing. There is a vast difference between preaching and witnessing. Of course it would be possible to witness in a casino. I would miss all the time at Wal-Mart stores and I have never been reported to the management which does not want you to witness. Your comment about the length of time it takes to present the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ really does expose you as one who believes in progressive salvation. As a former highrolling gambler I might have a better idea about the casinos that you.
---mima on 10/24/10


---MarkV your first statement gently called me a liar. Your second statement introduces witnessing but I did not mention witnessing. There is a vast difference between preaching and witnessing. Of course it would be possible to witness in a casino. I would witness all the time at Wal-Mart stores and I have never been reported to the management which does not want you to witness. Your comment about the length of time it takes to present the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ really does expose you as one who believes in progressive salvation. Also as a former highrolling gambler I have some ideas about the casinos.
---mima on 10/24/10


Mima, your story about Casino's is just not possible. Forming a circle by employees and witnessing to someone inside a Casino is not possible, if employees formed a circle inside the casino, management would fire the employees and throw you out. Second, in order for you to present the Gospel of Jesus Christ you need alot of time, unless you are one who just ask people if they are saved and if they want to be. That is not the Gospel of Christ. Third, there is camera's everywhere inside a Casino with the exception of bathrooms, and rooms. Forth, if they are tongue speaking, no one will understand what they are saying. Unless their are from another country and you speak in their tongue.
---MarkV. on 10/23/10


God is everywhere. He can save you at the bottom of a ocean, if He wants to. You go where God leads you.
---catherine on 10/20/10


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Story about casinos, occasionally casinos in Las Vegas are visited by tongue talking, on fire for God, preaching laypeople.
Interestingly when this happens the casino's employs form a ring around the person preaching, for the purpose of keeping customers from interfering with the one preaching. Eventually the people preaching will walk on out of the casino.

Believe it or not!!!
---mima on 10/20/10


//May I suggest that the best way to be friendly and show love at the same time is to tell them how they can be saved. //
---mima on 10/6/10

Absolutely I agree. But I honestly believe the approach makes the difference (Jude 1:22).

Im not sayin I would go into a bar and start slamming back tequila shots to befriend people and then tell them about Jesus Christ. Looking back at my party days, I would be more persuaded hearing the gospel from a man who is able to sit in a bar with me, NOT drink and still be my friend without condemning me. Meekness (2 Tim 2:26)

Those without the law have a conscience (Romans 2:14). I dont need to tell them how they sin. They already know it. They just need to know about the Savior.
---JackB on 10/8/10


JackB wrote,"You have to be a friend to sinners before you can help them escape from their sin" May I suggest that the best way to be friendly and show love at the same time is to tell them how they can be saved.
---mima on 10/6/10


\\The Southern Baptist church in me says we shouldnt go in bars to witness to them because its a place of sin.\\

It is a known fact that when the SBC meets in a city, bars do their worst business and liquor stores do their best.
---Cluny on 10/6/10


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The Southern Baptist church in me says we shouldnt go in bars to witness to them because its a place of sin.

My heart in me tells me that Jesus Christ ate with publicans and sinners.
I would go into the bar to witness to them.

You have to be a friend to sinners before you can help them escape from their sin. A Christian who looks down his nose at a lost man defeats his own purpose.

"Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more"

Whats the first thing a lot of Christians do now...? condemn people
---JackB on 10/6/10


Drive by any casio parking lot and you will see many cars that have Jesus stickers on them.

While working on road construction the bar & restaurant were together but I often avoided the place on weekends as that was when the construction workers & fisherman frequented the bar and often got into fights.

The bottom line is to avoid anything that would affect your testimony of Christ in your life in a negative setting.
---leej on 10/5/10


It really depends where your testimony is of the most influential. When in the Navy, my Christian testimony was much more influential in the bars where some of my Navy friends where. When I got discharged and whent to church in my home town and knew most of the members, my testmony was more influential outside of the bars. If you do go into bars, make sure other Christians know why, (you aren't going in to gamble, etc.) - it could be a mission field. Have other Christians pray for you. The main thing is, if the Lord is telling you that you have a ministry in the bars, don't let other well-meaning but in error, Christians tell you other wise.
---wivv on 9/8/10


//a better question is knowing there are unsaved people in church, what should we do?//

the "church" needs to understand how empty a meal psuedo-Judaism is, and quit feeding the hungry with a mixed message that has no meat.

//the "churched lost" need to hear the gospel//

the lost church needs to undertand that there are two gospels: the gospel of the kingdom and the gospel of grace. if these two ingredients are prepared separately, the new creation will come together as One.
---aka on 9/8/10


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\\If a Christian works in a bar, selling alcoholic beverages to people, isn't he/she violating this passage in some sense?\\

No.

Christ's first miracle was making several hundred gallons of WINE--with alcohol in it.

Do you say that Christ violated this passage?
---Cluny on 9/8/10


Pray for humility and forgiveness for arrogance. I have been to casinoes with family members when going to Atlantic City. My brother was a believer who worked part time in a bar that his friend owned. Scripture says nothing about such places, only that we need to seek the Lord.

Pray for yourself and for the unbelievers who cross your path.
---Trish9863 on 9/6/10
What about Habakkuk 2:15, "Woe unto him that giveth his his neighbour drink...?" If a Christian works in a bar, selling alcoholic beverages to people, isn't he/she violating this passage in some sense?
---tommy3007 on 9/8/10


Cluny is correct when he says,"Guess what? There are saved people there, too." Some of the best witnessing I ever heard was at a poker game.
---mima on 9/8/10


that's a hard ? to tackle. I'm a backslider, my father was a preacher and I was raised in a church. 10 christians handing out pamphlets outside a casino or bar wouldn't freak me out because I used to do that. But 10 christians outside a casino at a tent or organized showing, I might stop by. Make it look official, you might get more results...
---Philip on 9/8/10


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a better question is knowing there are unsaved people in church, what should we do?

i have a co-worker who attends a fairly large baptist church that i left a few years ago. he started asking me questions about him and his wife, and i asked him if they are born again. his response? "i don't even know what that means."

he's been attending that church for two years, and hasn't heard what it means to be born again? the church needs help. the "churched lost" need to hear the gospel. why are the ones closest to us the ones we care the least about?
---James_L on 9/7/10


Valerie, the same thing we do with the unsaved that are at the grocery store, the hairdresser and the gas station. Share God and pray for them.
---NurseRobert on 9/6/10


if my chess pieces are in place and they move where I will, and I execute perfectly, do i need to worry about the opposition?

be still and be where He tells you. God has been doing This a long time. He knows all the moves.
---aka on 9/6/10


it would be a good idea to start in the "Church buildings"
---michael_e on 9/6/10


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Pray for humility and forgiveness for arrogance. I have been to casinoes with family members when going to Atlantic City. My brother was a believer who worked part time in a bar that his friend owned. Scripture says nothing about such places, only that we need to seek the Lord.

Pray for yourself and for the unbelievers who cross your path.
---Trish9863 on 9/6/10


I do not associate with bars or casinos. However we can help them beofre they enter or after they leave. God wil convict them sooner or later & they'll want to seek out true christians or a fellowship to help them.
---Candice on 9/6/10


Guess what? There are saved people there, too.

There are also unsaved people in the grocery store and movies--as well as saved.

Or are you simply making the unfounded assumption that everyone who goes to a bar or casino is not a Christian?
---Cluny on 9/6/10


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